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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:51:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Suvetar
Right; to the Op - AFAIK the mechanic is correct because once you hit -5.0 you are in essence permanently flagged as you're proven to be dangerous, anyone helping you would be aiding and abetting.
If you helped someone while they were commiting a crime, you would be aiding and abetting. No one's disputing that.
The point we're making that if a random guy helped an armed robber change a flat tyre a week after he'd held up a bank, said random guy wouldn't be arrested, tried, and executed for it. That's basically what this 'mechanic' equates to. The difference is whether the criminal is 'criminally flagged' or not, not whether he's a 'bad guy' or a 'good guy'.
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today!
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
 +=♥ - Immy |
Karash Amerius
Amarr
O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:30:00 -
[92]
For such a l33t player, I cant believe you posted this silly stuff on the forum.
What a noob.
Merc Blog |
Dionisius
Gallente
Vagabundos
THE H0RDE
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:46:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Damien Smith
Originally by: Suvetar
Right; to the Op - AFAIK the mechanic is correct because once you hit -5.0 you are in essence permanently flagged as you're proven to be dangerous, anyone helping you would be aiding and abetting.
If you helped someone while they were commiting a crime, you would be aiding and abetting. No one's disputing that.
The point we're making that if a random guy helped an armed robber change a flat tyre a week after he'd held up a bank, said random guy wouldn't be arrested, tried, and executed for it. That's basically what this 'mechanic' equates to. The difference is whether the criminal is 'criminally flagged' or not, not whether he's a 'bad guy' or a 'good guy'.
It is correct!
We are talking about people that atack other players indiscri... whatever .... pop other players 24x7.
If you aid a recogned criminal and flagged criminal player then face the music, the guy shoots people then he's on his own you help him you get wtfpwnd!
Simple game mechanics that do not apply to real life, deal with it and adapt.
*(btw i don't want to sound hipocritical with this cuz i started this game as ebil newbie piwate...wich i still am in part)
What we have here is total lack of respect for the law... |
Dirtball
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.12 18:48:00 -
[94]
Logistics ships can tank sentries.
Alts in bbs that are 2 weeks old rem sensor boosting cannot tank sentries.
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Keta Min
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2006.12.12 19:09:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Dirtball
Logistics ships can tank sentries.
Alts in bbs that are 2 weeks old rem sensor boosting cannot tank sentries.
this thread has nothing to do with remote boosting people that tank sentries.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:21:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Eelim Garak
you are correct when you say that the sentries open fire, even if the pilot you are
remote repping is not shooting or flagged, but just -5.
that is because you are helping a criminal (everyone below -4.9 is considered a criminal), which is forbidden by law, even in real life, if you help a murderer you will get trialed and punished for aiding a criminal.
so, it is not illogical or broken game mechanics, it just common sense that helping a criminal is illegal and makes you a criminal too.
I feel really wrong supporting a gatecamper, but Ginger is right. 
As long as the guns don't fire automatically on a -5 standing player, they shouldn't fire on the friend repping him.
It is like the police was arresting the one helping the murder in the above example, but left the murder free to go as he isn't currently killing someone.
I can argue that the gate guns should always fire on the -5 people in high sec, but that is another matter.
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Saladin
Minmatar
V I R I I
Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:32:00 -
[97]
I sorta see what Ginger is saying here. Attacking corp mates does not criminally flag you, so neither should repairing them.
The problem here is that they could be at the gate, doing nothing, and sentries not shooting. Then one remote boosts the other and sentries start shooting - Clearly there is something wrong with this picture. The remote boosting should only trigger a response when its done during combat with a third party.
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Dumus
Silver Service
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:45:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Dumus on 12/12/2006 20:47:00
-Dumus-
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Athren Soulsteal
Gallente
Orion Faction
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:06:00 -
[99]
Quote:
Right; to the Op - AFAIK the mechanic is correct because once you hit -5.0 you are in essence permanently flagged as you're proven to be dangerous, anyone helping you would be aiding and abetting.
Look at the bold part.
The reasion the guns ope up is because you are commiting a crime in front of them. You might as well have shot at a player at the gate, both are criminal actions.
When you help a criminal you are commiting a crime are are flagged not because of the other guy but becuse your OWN actions. You made youself a criminal and paid the price for it. See if you would have shot the -5 instead of reparing him then you would not have been commiting a crime. 
Quote:
Think about the people that did fight you fairly. Think.... that were honorable and helped you out in times of need. Those are the real heroes of EVE.
I wish I could fit all the Quote |
Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:31:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Zebler
The only reason that the criminal is low on armour is because he has been up to no good at some point in the past. There are no innocent cars coming along to hurt him 
...becauese "criminals" never run complexes or level 4s?
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
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Merdaneth
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Posted - 2006.12.12 23:09:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
This situation is clearly wrong and an unfair nerf on piracy. It does not affect gate camping because all members are flagged in any case. If CCP wants to get us off the gates and to roam more we mut be given equally footing with everyone else.
It is clearly ridiculous that same corp memebers get flagged regardless.
While somewhat ridiculous, it is perhaps even more ridicolous that the guns don't open fire automatically. After all, they do recognize you as criminals that can be shot on sight everywhere....
On the other hand, why would you want to remote rep in the sight of gate guns when there is no fight going on?
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Qece
Gallente
Dead End Zeroes
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Posted - 2006.12.12 23:47:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Athren Soulsteal
Quote:
Right; to the Op - AFAIK the mechanic is correct because once you hit -5.0 you are in essence permanently flagged as you're proven to be dangerous, anyone helping you would be aiding and abetting.
Look at the bold part.
The reasion the guns ope up is because you are commiting a crime in front of them. You might as well have shot at a player at the gate, both are criminal actions.
When you help a criminal you are commiting a crime are are flagged not because of the other guy but becuse your OWN actions. You made youself a criminal and paid the price for it. See if you would have shot the -5 instead of reparing him then you would not have been commiting a crime.
So GM's friend who is the known criminal that you're speaking of can sit in front of a sentry and not get attacked but GM reps him and he gets blowed up?
Do you not see GM's point? You and all the other people that have failed to grasp this fairly simple concept have mostly not managed it because you'd rather jump on his back. Think about what he's saying before you set the flamer on full.
I agree with GM, it's not right that he alone should get blowed up by the sentries. The guns must know that GM's buddy is a crim as they nailed GM once he tried to rep him. IMO that means that the guns should just blow up his buddy first of all anyhow, aggression cooldown or not.
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Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.12 23:51:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Blind Man on 12/12/2006 23:51:21
-5.0 = criminal, assist a crimal = flagged, simple as that
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Ginger Magician
Minmatar
OctoberSnow Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.13 02:20:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Suvetar
I've cleaned this thread up now, I would be wary of posting any more troll here - Mmmkay ?
Right; to the Op - AFAIK the mechanic is correct because once you hit -5.0 you are in essence permanently flagged as you're proven to be dangerous, anyone helping you would be aiding and abetting.
However, instead of posting in an imflamatory fashion here, I suggest that you send a Bug Report in.
Maybe u should try actually playing and learning about the game rather than reading forums.
THIS IS NOT A BUG.It is the way the game mechanic works atm.
The way to solve this is to have the idea suggested here.If a corp member is -5 and is crIminally flagged and being fired upon by sentries then remote assitance of any kind should lead to flagging for the assister.However if the person your assisting is merely -10 and not flagged at that time then it is obvious that the assister should not instantly be criminaly flagged and sentry fired on.
The inteligent reponses and respected pvp/pirates in this thread all agree with me so maybe something will be done eventually.
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Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.12.13 02:24:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Hakera on 13/12/2006 02:25:53
Originally by: Blind Man
-5.0 = criminal, assist a crimal = flagged, simple as that
QFT, even if the one your assiting is not aggro flagged, your supporting a known criminal with a global flag and subject to penalty.
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2006.12.13 02:27:00 -
[106]
This thread successfully rofled my waffles.
If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a better browser. |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.13 02:29:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
OK lets take a hypothetical example.I am in a small roaming pvp gang and I want to fit a remote armor repper to help gangmates out in combat or perhaps also to use logistics drones on them during combat.
Those who have watched the alliance tournament will have no doubt seen plenty of this sort of thing and it is essential for effective use of the gang system to maximise each ships abilities and ofc logistics ships which have no other purpose.
Now take the position of Octobersnow Corp a game famous corp no.1 killers in the game on the battleclinic killboards.You would have hoped that such a corp known for its roaming gangs as well as camping would be able to use these support features to maximize their skills and setups in PVP.In fact u would have thought that such setups would be commonplace among such a feared and sucessful pvp corp.
But here is the rub.All members of Octobersnow with the exception of alts are -5 or more and global criminals.If any member of snowy attempts to remote rep/sensor boost/energy tranfer etc etc another member we are immediately globally criminally flagged and sentry fired upon.This is a JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!
People in the same damn corp cannot even help each other out.
FOR the love of GOD FIX THIS **** CCP!!!!!!!!
Havent u nerfed piracy enough to at least give us this one little thing??????????
Please don't use all caps in subject -Conuion
So basicly you want to be able to sit your carrier at a gate, and use capital reps on alts without your carrier being flagged and shot at?
Your sec status has nothing to do with it, assisting a criminal is a criminal act, end of discussion.
And who are octobersnow?
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.13 02:55:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Gurgling CEO
What the hell is wrong with people really?
I dont know this guy or his history, but this issue is real. And it is completely idiotic game design.
There has been incidents of concord ganking people who are doing missions in gang. You help your friend with remote repair drones for example and concord pops in and ganks you.
Actually, those people fire weapons on their gangmates. Energy/armor/shield transfers do not trigger concord, nor do maint drones.
Also you can fire on corpmates with anything and not get popped, unless you're in an NPC corp.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Beringe
Caldari
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2006.12.13 03:03:00 -
[109]
I quit reading when he referred to Battleclinic as some sort of scale to rate his own laughing-stock corporation.
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"Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
Ferrum Pugnus
New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.13 03:06:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Beringe
I quit reading when he referred to Battleclinic as some sort of scale to rate his own laughing-stock corporation.
prefer eve-killboard myself but to each their own current system is fine the way it is
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.13 03:16:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Damien Smith
Originally by: Suvetar
Right; to the Op - AFAIK the mechanic is correct because once you hit -5.0 you are in essence permanently flagged as you're proven to be dangerous, anyone helping you would be aiding and abetting.
If you helped someone while they were commiting a crime, you would be aiding and abetting. No one's disputing that.
The point we're making that if a random guy helped an armed robber change a flat tyre a week after he'd held up a bank, said random guy wouldn't be arrested, tried, and executed for it. That's basically what this 'mechanic' equates to. The difference is whether the criminal is 'criminally flagged' or not, not whether he's a 'bad guy' or a 'good guy'.
Actually, if a known criminal were to come to you, and tell you they need their tires replaced because they got shot out, and you helped them, you would most certainly find yourself facing jailtime.
And if some crime lord were dying and you saved their life, yes there's a certain group out there that would hail you as a hero, however there'd be alot of people wondering why the hell you just saved him, as he's going to live and commit more crimes, and you're going to likely have made very dangerous enemies in the process, and possibly get probed by the authorities to make sure you have no connections to said criminal.
Regardless, the mechanic is fine as is. If someone sees flashing red and helps anyways, then they've made their choice.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Suvetar
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.12.13 09:41:00 -
[112]
Enough has been said about this; if you think there's problem here - you need to send a bug report.
Continuing to rant and troll your own thread won't get you anywhere.
Locked.
forum rules | [email protected] | Our new Website! |
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2006.12.13 09:49:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Damien Smith on 13/12/2006 09:51:53
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
So basicly you want to be able to sit your carrier at a gate, and use capital reps on alts without your carrier being flagged and shot at?
Congratulations on still not understanding the problem after three whole pages of discussion.
Assist an outlaw who is flagged = become flagged yourself and get pwned by sentries = good.
Assist an outlaw who isn't flagged, isn't attacking anyone = get pwned by sentries = bad.
Here it in caps for the slower members among us:
THIS ISN'T A THREAD ABOUT BEING ABLE TO CREATE INFINITANK GATECAMPS BY USING UNFLAGGABLE LOGISTICS ALTS. IT ISN'T ABOUT BEING ABLE TO PERFORM A RE-CREATION OF ZOMBIE'S ATTACK ON YULAI. IF YOU ASSIST SOMEONE WHO'S FLAGGED, YOU SHOULD GET FLAGGED.
IF YOU ASSIST SOMEONE WHO ISN'T FLAGGED, WHO MAY BE SAT AT A SAFESPOT MINDING THEIR OWN BUSINESS OR MAY BE AN OUTLAW REPAIRING ONE OF THEIR OWN DRONES WITH A REMOTE REP, WHILE STILL UNFLAGGED AND CAUSING NO HARM, THEY SHOULDN'T GET FLAGGED FOR IT.
There, now is there anyone else who still doesn't get it?
I'm sat in a belt in my Thorax. I notice one of my drones needs repairing after killing some rats, so I remote repair it so I don't have to pay a station to do it for me. I then get owned by the next sentry gun I come across. Great eh?
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today!
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
+=♥ - Immy |
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