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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 26 post(s) |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.15 18:33:00 -
[91]
Jiekon, I have used the new fleet / gang system quite a bit now, and there are two things that really bug me. 1. Please make it possible to seperate the gang window from the overview. 2. Please stop the gang window auto-scrolling back to the top when it updates.
Sure there are a few more tweaks that would be nice, but functionality first.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.15 19:27:00 -
[92]
Question : does fleet/wing/squad get the bonus for themselves ?
Example : I'm in a minnie Titan, fleet leader, do I get the -37,5% of my signature or not ?
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Jameroz
Independent Frontiers Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.15 19:28:00 -
[93]
I think commanders should get bonuses from commanders above them... Sucks to be squadron commander now. You don't really want to train the skills that will in best case scenario effect max 11 people.
Independent Frontiers is recruiting |
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Jiekon
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Posted - 2006.12.15 19:32:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Question : does fleet/wing/squad get the bonus for themselves ?
Example : I'm in a minnie Titan, fleet leader, do I get the -37,5% of my signature or not ?
Yes, you do.
I apologise for not replying to each post individually, things have been pretty hectic around the office, but your words have not gone unheeded. I`ll be passing on a lot of ideas and suggestions to the game design team in due course. ___________________________ ~Jiekon
Known Issues Bug Reporting
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.15 19:42:00 -
[95]
Okay, so Avatars are the best titan, period (cap is their only only only weakness.)
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Pang Grohl
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.15 21:49:00 -
[96]
Are the broadcast messages meant to work with deadspace/mission sites? At the moment I can't direct other gang members to a deadspace/mission site with the broadcasts. The system seems to be unable to find the location. The other fleet members see the broadcast, but the warp to option lists "none" as the destination. I have bug-reported this, but I figured since there's some dedicated attention to the Fleet system I'd raise the issue here.
Other than this flaw the only difficulty with the system has been the difficulty in figuring out how the leadership skill bonuses are applied.
Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
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Jiekon
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Posted - 2006.12.15 23:16:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Pang Grohl Are the broadcast messages meant to work with deadspace/mission sites? At the moment I can't direct other gang members to a deadspace/mission site with the broadcasts. The system seems to be unable to find the location. The other fleet members see the broadcast, but the warp to option lists "none" as the destination. I have bug-reported this, but I figured since there's some dedicated attention to the Fleet system I'd raise the issue here.
Other than this flaw the only difficulty with the system has been the difficulty in figuring out how the leadership skill bonuses are applied.
I`m not entirely sure, but if you submitted a bug report about it someone will investigate. ___________________________ ~Jiekon
Known Issues Bug Reporting
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DukeJoost1
The Last Solution Inc
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Posted - 2006.12.15 23:18:00 -
[98]
Missioning with my second account. Main creates gang, convert gang to fleet, move main to squad commander (since no fleet commandskill and i want those bonusses) warp squad command to mission area gives pop-up window : "you cannot do that since you need to be the gang leader"
but he IS gang creator, boss and squad commander, now why cant main warp squad of two !?!?!?
fly safe.... but separate
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Lord Artemis
Team Wide Open Throttle
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Posted - 2006.12.16 03:10:00 -
[99]
Why is it that when the owner of a wreck in squad in a fleet leaves the system or docks can another gang member in another corp no longer loot/tow/salvage the wreck without becoming flagged for aggression but when the specific owner of the can is there its ok?
_____________________________ Public Health Advisory - Say NO to OOC! |
Thaylon Sen
The Rat Pack
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Posted - 2006.12.16 09:39:00 -
[100]
Can scouts also right click and broadcast target...
kthxbye
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Jiekon
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Posted - 2006.12.16 11:28:00 -
[101]
Originally by: DukeJoost1 Missioning with my second account. Main creates gang, convert gang to fleet, move main to squad commander (since no fleet commandskill and i want those bonusses) warp squad command to mission area gives pop-up window : "you cannot do that since you need to be the gang leader"
but he IS gang creator, boss and squad commander, now why cant main warp squad of two !?!?!?
fly safe.... but separate
That's weird, squad commanders should be able to "Warp squad to" I`ll jump on SISI later and check it out. ___________________________ ~Jiekon
Known Issues Bug Reporting
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VaderDSL
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.16 11:46:00 -
[102]
This issue has probably already been addressed but I am hung over very badly
Will commanders eventually be changed to receive bonuses? As it is I have wing command 2 to run two squads, however the squad commanders still do not receive bonuses from me.
I think it would be great for the commanders to receive the bonuses, as it makes perfect sense that a leader has support from the rest of his fleet/squad/wing. |
JForce
N.W.A
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Posted - 2006.12.16 13:16:00 -
[103]
The simple fact of the matter is that it makes absolutely no sense for bonuses to not filter down entirely.
There's no checking of multiple people, as it's 3 pre-defined roles, so the lag excuse is out.
Every single person in the fleet should receive the bonuses of the fleet commander if his is the highest, including squadron and wing commanders.
It also makes no sense at all for commanders to not receive their own bonuses. |
Phaestus Bjorn
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Posted - 2006.12.16 13:48:00 -
[104]
Will the bonuses ever be changed so the lower commanders get the upper echelon's boni? I know that this wont apply very often but it would be nice to have that incentive to be a squad/wing leader. Afterall who will want to have a good ship playing leader if they dont have as much defence as they would have if they were just following along.
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Lady Zirconia
Caldari M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.16 14:15:00 -
[105]
Originally by: oil
pilots which trained leadership to max to help their corp/alliance are now obsolete if those pilots have now wish or ability to actually lead a fleet. many millions of wasted skillpoints on the server
Not obsolete. You can still fly Command Ships, and they are still some of the best ships out there regardless of whether you are giving bonuses or not. So stop being melodramatic and get over it.
Originally by: oil
gangbonus-guy was a support role. now its something entirely different
Funny, they have always been called COMMAND Ships, not Support ships or something else. If you played them in a support role then so be it. But thats not what was intended with them.
Originally by: oil
-fleatleaders have usuall no second accounts with a leadership sp char. they fly combat ships or covert ops. freshmen gangleaders will have a hard time to emerge because there always are others in the gang with better skills.
Nobody complains that they have to train Covert Ops Cloaks (nevermind afford them) in order to be a scout. Why would anyone complain that they have to train Leadership in order to be a leader.
Originally by: oil
-all will probably agree that we need more gangleeders. why force them to train leadershipskills? gangleaders burn out easy so why make it difficult for others to fill in for a time to give the gangleaders a rest? complete crap i see no more rooky gangleeaders emerging.
Such melodrama. Of course new gang leaders will emerge.
Originally by: oil
- i start to doubt, that the devs ever participated in a REAL battle. the situations there are sometimes so chaotic that selecting a replacement for the fallen fleet/squad/wing- comander will be low on the list.
{whine EVE's too hard whine}
fill the replacement automatcall into the slot in case of shiploss or logoff/crash.
Like Jiekon said, EVE wont be dumbed down by people like you who can't cope with the challenges during battle. It probably will be low on the priority list. But its exactly this kind of challenge which seperates the good gangs from the great gangs.
Originally by: Shabesa
One of bigger Kali blunders tbh. It's not like there were gangs having 40+ command ships so "checking" load on server can't be issue there. And if server was checking every member after each session change, that's bad session change design anyway.
You must be one of those people who think they can do everything better than everyone else even when you dont fully understand the problem and despite evidence to the contrary.
Seriously, the lag was not being caused by the Command Ships but by the gang skills. Basic maths my overconfident friend. In the old system, 100 man gang, every gang member has to check their skills against every other member - thus: 100*100 checks per interval = 10 000 checks. The new system, exactly 3 checks. The Squad leader checks against the Wing Commander and the Fleet Commander.
The Command Ship bonus was simply a victim of the total rehaul of the gang system.
Originally by: Shabesa
Not dumbing Eve down. Yeah, right. Look, a Damnation. Primary is ...
Before the new gang system and after the new gang system, if you wanted to eliminate gang bonuses of the hostile gang you would target....The Damnation! The only difference is that now you are not really sure which Damnation is actually in a command position or not, if any. So your point if moot.
Originally by: Shabesa
Appreciate the effort to explain this mess but to put it bluntly, outsource coding. I'm pretty sure you could find decent company through your China partner that will do Eve 2 properly in a year.
Can I have your stuff?
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Potent Potable
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Posted - 2006.12.16 23:33:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Potent Potable on 16/12/2006 23:33:05
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Weirda
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.16 23:33:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Righteous Fury Edited by: Righteous Fury on 14/12/2006 21:13:19
Originally by: Jiekon I`ll speak to TomB about the possibility of introducing a "gang commander" for small gangs and see what he says about it. But don't hold your breath.
Whats the reasoning behind not implementing it then? Or rather, the inference from your "dont hold my breath" comment that it will hardly be considered?
Weirda would imagine "because it go against the whole point of all of this?"
man - Weirda thought Matari are dumb, but Amarr take the cake __ Weirda Join QotSA |
SilentTJ
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Posted - 2006.12.16 23:35:00 -
[108]
having it so that only commanders give out bonus' kinda makes all the skill training done by some people seem pointless now... its not always the person with the best bonuses who should be commander. someone could have trained up skills to give bonuses but should only be in the squad, not in charge of the squad. if a player is in a command ship, they can have assist modules and the ability to give out great bonuses, but if they're a horrible leader, then they shouldnt be the commander, but just cause they're not a good leader doesnt mean they shouldnt be in the squad at all. also, some of my corp mates do a lot of mining, and one of our members has trained up some mining bonus skills, and can fly cover while giving out mining bonuses to make mining go a lot quicker and be more effective. but to form a gang and not receive bonuses makes all that pointless now, because we cant be forming a fleet everytime there's maybe 2 or 3 people sitting in a belt. my opinion...
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Galldar
Dark and Light inc. D-L
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Posted - 2006.12.17 00:35:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Traxio Nacho
Quote: In certain circumstances while playing in windowed mode, gang broadcast and drone command interfaces would overlap. This has been resolved.
Jiekon can you confirm this bug is being looked at please as it clearly has NOT been resolved?
As it is if you get this bug its quite difficult if not impossible to see gang commands or to act on them.
or launch drones...had to reload a whole new clinet to fix it on my side
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.17 02:24:00 -
[110]
I can't find the new equivalent of "disband gang"?
A suggestion: make it visible (to the Boss only, if necessary to reduce lag) what the members' gang skill level is. Autopromotion would make this less crucial.
Another two suggestions: options for "tag freely" (any member of the fleet can tag) and "invite freely".
I like the "Enemy spotted!" button, it has many uses.
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Sarah Meiskin
The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.17 03:38:00 -
[111]
Yes, an Auto-Promotion for Squadrons would be absolutely loved. a Quick check of each squad's members to see who has Highest Leadership Level, and then who has the most SP in the Leadership Group of skills to determine squad leader.... I would -LOVE- that.
Also, I'd really love to have some sort of notification if a squad or my wing loses bonuses; just a quick way of identifying if my squads/Wings are receiving them correctly (Like, green light on the squads below me to say "They are receiving bonuses", or Yellow light "This squad could receive your bonuses" or something....
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Anna Fe
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Posted - 2006.12.17 23:49:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Anna Fe on 17/12/2006 23:54:35
Originally by: Jiekon Eventually, yes, maybe, it's something we've always wanted to integrate into EvE
May I suggest that instead of making people fly in a set position that you give a fleet commander the ability to project desired fleet positions? Something graphical much like the "I need a repair" emote? Fleet commanders would have settings for each category much like their current overview settings but each person in their fleet that fell into a specific group would be able to see the corresponding command overlay that the Fleet Commander is assigning. Besides positions commands should be able to be selected for the groups including things like "Hold position" "Scatter" etc. Perhaps ditch the stupid lines altogether in favor of each groups command menu being color coded. Yellow ouline = yellow overlay.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0612/overlay-idea2.jpg
In other words don't force players into a formation but give them the ability to fly in a formation of sorts. Also this overlay should only be updated every 5 seconds or so so it doesn't lag the hell out of everyone. Who am I kidding haha. |
Dwight Hammerhead
Caldari KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.18 09:32:00 -
[113]
Yes, gang bonuses should be received be EVERY1 in the fkin fleet. It worked that way before. Now u had to gimp ppl to fixed positions in order to spread the bonuses and reduce the lag.. Somewhat fine, although as tons of ppl said it had to be done with a role - "Gang Dude", not the forcefull sh*t we have now.
Thats part of the point however, that will continue to be stressed until its resolved. The other question is why not every1 can get the bonuses? They could get them before, why not now? Whats the logic behind it? Its not the lag excuse, as the game already checks just a fixed amount of ppl.
Having the ability to rename squads and wings and have the fleet window detachable so u can move it anywhere u wan will also make things much better. _____________________________________________ Too bad at photoshop and too poor to buy a sig |
Malok Stravis
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Posted - 2006.12.18 14:16:00 -
[114]
don't know if it was already suggested. But maybe it would be a good idea, to be able to merge two fleets.
So you first can organize smaller fleets or squads and directly add this one as a new squad or wing in another fleet.
this would help to split the task of squad building.
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Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
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Posted - 2006.12.18 21:38:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Jiekon
Originally by: DukeJoost1 Missioning with my second account. Main creates gang, convert gang to fleet, move main to squad commander (since no fleet commandskill and i want those bonusses) warp squad command to mission area gives pop-up window : "you cannot do that since you need to be the gang leader"
but he IS gang creator, boss and squad commander, now why cant main warp squad of two !?!?!?
fly safe.... but separate
That's weird, squad commanders should be able to "Warp squad to" I`ll jump on SISI later and check it out.
I also had the same problem, so I generaly leave me and my corp M8 as Boss/Fleet command and corp M8 into wind commander. Now neither of us have the wing commander skill but we both get gang bonuses.. at least to shield from what I notice.
I appolgise that I have not paid that close attention to see who's bonuse it is.
BUt according to what you say in the opeing post when converting to fleet it usualy sets up as Boss/Fleet Commander and Gang member is automatically places as squadmemeber. Now the Boss/fleet commander get his/her gang bonuses but the corp gang memeber/ does not have any gang bonuses unless i move them into a command position in which case, from what you are saying they are just getting thier gang bonuse.
So to the squadmemeber not getting the bosses bonuse when converting to fleet, am I just no being patent enough to wait for the bonuse or is that a bug. Just seems to me the bonuses are not working as you discribe.
Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!!
Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0. |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Solid Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.19 02:30:00 -
[116]
Well, EVE got a bit more challenging on the gang and leadership skills part. Thanks for that CCP and thanks to you Jierkon for taking your time clearing things up. I definitely like the changes. Please ignore the people crying "It's not easy enough. Let the system do my work."
Heck, it's called leadership. The previous system was handy, but actually didn't make sense. As for the 'wasted skillpoints' argument - if you can fly an interceptor but you're currently flying a battleship, are those skillpoints wasted? You can't do everything (which your character is capable of) at the same time anyway. If anyone trained leadership skills without the intent to act as a leader anytime soon, well, that's a bit odd to be honest.
________________________ - Posting on forums can be more arduous than mowing your lawn with nail scissors - |
Sumayyah
Minmatar Dynamic Endeavors
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Posted - 2006.12.19 14:13:00 -
[117]
Last night on the main server "not" test server I tested the Gang bonuses with my corp M8 who has no leadership skills.
So I formed Gang(I was boss). Covert gang to fleet. I notice I get a gang sheild bonuse(my skills).Also appears that I have automatically been made Fleet commander, and my corp M8 Squad member. I ask my corp M8 does if I have shield bonuse.
He says no. Acording to your opening post he should.
I click move member for me to see what I can select, I can move to wing commander and Squad commander. I do nothing at this point. Click move corp M8 to wing commander. Ask any bonuse.. no. this is correct as to what you have said ok. Move him back to squad member. Ask more shields? No.. still not reflecting what you said. Move myslef to Squad leader, Corp M8 I have shield bonuse now. yeah!!
Only problem now is that I can not warp gang.
Problems i see with Current Gang system. 1: as I was Squad commander I can not warp gang. 2: As Fleet command my bonuse did not travel down to squad member. This is probably because I do not have Fleet commander skills, but if this is the case I should not get my own bonuse wouldn't you think? 3: persoanlly I think Commanders should share all thier bonuse. Ie wing with Squad and Fleet and Fleet with wing and squand and Squad with Wing and Fleet. Your commanders are the most important so wouldn't you want them to be the strongest so they have a better chance of surviving. It's nice that in theary that squad members can get all bonuses but I think it would almost make more since if squadmemeber only got the bonuses from there squad leader. I'm an ! I will always be an ! that is all I have to say But thats not all!!! Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact Jet Collins in game. |
Raste
Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.19 15:33:00 -
[118]
1 - I would love an easy way to identify which wing/squad you are in. In large fleets in lagged out systems its very difficult to sort through hundred of names in the fleet overview trying to find yourself.
2a - There is just way too much micromanagement for big fleets, compounded by the UI, lag, etc. Asking for this to be fixed is not "dumbing down Eve" unless you think Eve was dumbed down pre-Revelations patch. b - "To be fair, that should be sorted out before you even think of undocking. Being ill prepared can only lead to disaster." -- Completely unrealistic, good luck with that with a couple hundred people and ops spanning multiple days in hostile territory. People constantly crashing, relogging, etc.
===This is a sig=== "no matter where you are or what you're doing, you know that down in the southeast, LV and RA are trying to stab each other in the face." -- Cadiz ==============
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Sun Sliver
Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.19 16:35:00 -
[119]
I think someone must have misplaced a decimal on the time multipliers for the wing command and fleet command skills...8x and 12x??? Something more in line would be 1xLeadership(as is), 4x Wing Command, 8x Fleet Command. You are aware that means in order to fully take advantage of a 250 member fleet (something that forms daily in eve) an FC will have to commit training time just about equivalent for noob to get to lvl 5 dreadnaught?! Seriously did someone make a mistake on the time multipliers? Or is the requirement a purposeful step set up as to restrict players from causing lag at the expense of using the game feature: gang bonuses?
I am not asking to be rude, I really want to know why if it isnt a mistake
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Frug
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.19 18:12:00 -
[120]
Quote: Basic maths my overconfident friend. In the old system, 100 man gang, every gang member has to check their skills against every other member - thus: 100*100 checks per interval = 10 000 checks. The new system, exactly 3 checks. The Squad leader checks against the Wing Commander and the Fleet Commander.
You're clearly not a coder. There's no need to do 10,000 checks. It can be done with only 100 checks quite easily. All you're doing is scrolling through a list looking for the highest.
If you're checking each member against each other member, you're totally fired dude. Totally fired. Get off my land!
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