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Gangs of New Eden - Myths Busted

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 26 post(s)
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:05:00 - [31] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 14/12/2006 21:11:48 Originally by: Jiekon To be fair, that should be sorted out before you even think of undocking. Being ill prepared can only lead to disaster. Any plans on allowing the management of gangs while docked? (I should clarify: you can invite people to gangs/create gangs, but you can't manage fleets) --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson

Jiekon	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:06:00 - [32] Originally by: Shemar ok, so let me understand this: Whereas before the best bonus in a gang would apply, now only the squadron commander gives bonuses to the others? What about ship bonuses. Is it enough for a ship to be in the squadron for all to get the bonus or only the squadron commander's ship gives bonuses? And how does the leadership skill figure in (beyond it's own bonus). Does it affect how many people can be in the squadron to get the bonus, or is level 5 needed for just 3-4 gang members before any bonus applies? Yes. Only commanders give bonuses now. I think only commanders in those ships give bonuses, i`m not 100% sure on this as i haven't tested it yet. But gang modules from an EOS are only given if a commander is flying it Leadership skill allows a squad commander to control a squad size of 2 x his skill level up to a maximum of 10 members (including himself) ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████


Jiekon	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:08:00 - [33] Originally by: Hehulk Originally by: Jiekon The servers are capable of handling large fleet battles, ok, it's not as smooth as we'd like, but we are working on making that better as you can see with the amount of fleet stress tests sharkbait is doing on SISI over the past few months. Sorry if this is trolling, but if that were the case, why do node crashes occure? Cudos for trying to fix the problem though, I appriciate it. Node crashes occur for many reasons and we are doing our best to eliminate them all, hence teh serious stress tests on SISI. I should note that we handled a 100 vs 100 POS battle on SISI without crashing a node ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

Magdala Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:08:00 - [34] Originally by: Jiekon This also means that Wing Commanders only give their bonuses from skills / fleet command ships / gang assist modules to the squadron members in their wing but please note, this does not extend to the squadron commanders! . . . And also, Fleet Commanders give their bonuses to all squad memebrs of their fleet, but not to any other commander, not to any Wing Commanders or Squadron Commanders. only the squadron members. . . . I now open the floor to questions you would like answering regarding the new gang system and i will do my best to get answers for them. Why is it that the members you need to protect the most (i.e. commanders) are the ones who receive the least bonuses? I can understand different squadron commanders not granting each other benefits, but I don't undsertand why squadron commanders don't inherit their wing/fleet commander's bonuses or why wing commanders don't inherit the fleet commander's bonuses. That just seems inherently wrong.

Jiekon	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:10:00 - [35] Originally by: Righteous Fury Edited by: Righteous Fury on 14/12/2006 21:04:01 In short, I guess I'm saying for gangs of less than 20 people is it possible to allow the gang boss to share his gang skills without having to create a fleet? And also to be fair, gang sizes change on the fly based on people's real-life commitments, pilots travelling from Jita to meet a gang in Rens, etc. Asking people to dock when their gang status is in flux is pretty ridiculous. I`ll speak to TomB about the possibility of introducing a "gang commander" for small gangs and see what he says about it. But don't hold your breath. ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

Righteous Fury Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:12:00 - [36] Edited by: Righteous Fury on 14/12/2006 21:13:19 Originally by: Jiekon I`ll speak to TomB about the possibility of introducing a "gang commander" for small gangs and see what he says about it. But don't hold your breath. Whats the reasoning behind not implementing it then? Or rather, the inference from your "dont hold my breath" comment that it will hardly be considered?

Jiekon	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:13:00 - [37] Originally by: Righteous Fury Originally by: Jiekon I`ll speak to TomB about the possibility of introducing a "gang commander" for small gangs and see what he says about it. But don't hold your breath. Whats the reasoning behind not implementing it then? Like i said, i`ll speak to TomB tomorrow, i don't know the answer to that. ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

Der Ewige Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:17:00 - [38] Atm you cant switch 2 positions in a fleet direct. If you want to replace a commander with somone else you have to first move the commander away to make place for a new commander. This is espacialy a problem if you want to switch a squadmember with the squadcommander and the squad is full. So you have to move the old commander to another squad or even wing. Will ther ever be a "switch position with" command or something like this? I noticed that when the "Boss" quites to what ever reason (CTD, Log off...) there is no "claim Boss" option. Although there is a workaround. If there is no boss in the gang anybody can convert the gang to a fleet or the other way around and will becom Boss then. Any plan to fix this?

Jiekon	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:24:00 - [39] Originally by: Der Ewige Atm you cant switch 2 positions in a fleet direct. If you want to replace a commander with somone else you have to first move the commander away to make place for a new commander. This is espacialy a problem if you want to switch a squadmember with the squadcommander and the squad is full. So you have to move the old commander to another squad or even wing. Will ther ever be a "switch position with" command or something like this? I noticed that when the "Boss" quites to what ever reason (CTD, Log off...) there is no "claim Boss" option. Although there is a workaround. If there is no boss in the gang anybody can convert the gang to a fleet or the other way around and will becom Boss then. Any plan to fix this? Yeah, if you could file a bug report on this issue and supply a log server we'll look into it :) ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

suzy homemaker	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:34:00 - [40] First of all thanks for the hard work with this system. 1) Can we get a collapsible option on the gang buttons similar to the ones on the squad, wing and fleet lines? 2)Why is tagging limited to the Fleet commander only? Is it possible for the highest rated commander in the system have that option or at least to have the highest rated commander in the fleet to have it if the highest is squad or wing. Thanks
Marquise Minmatar Dangerous Liasons	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:39:00 - [41] Originally by: Jiekon To be fair, that should be sorted out before you even think of undocking. Being ill prepared can only lead to disaster. ok, we can create gangs in station, but how do we convert them to fleets without undocking and using the overview fleet menu? also, how do we move people around within fleets while we're in station? ------------------------------------------------ "In the end it all came down to one wonderfully simple principle: that happiness and vanity are incompatible"
Magdala Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:41:00 - [42] You missed me up there. /emote points up Is there any chance the fleet window could be separate from the overview and moveable? Also, as to getting stuff sorted out before you undock, unless I'm missing it somehow (and if I am, please enlighten me) you can't access the fleet window in-station.
Caedicus Minmatar Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:52:00 - [43] Questions: Would it be very hard to add some information about what bonuses we are receiving? When you mouse over the dot by a commander's name it tells you whether you are receiving bonuses from them or not, maybe you can add that information there. It's pretty silly that we have to ask our commander's what bonuses we are receving? Why exactly don't commanders receive bonuses from the fleet commander? I think they need bonuses the most since they are going to be the most desirable target. Quote: The new fleet system was partly introduced to make large fleets easier to manage and to reduce server load for calculating who gives bonuses to whome. In the old gang system it used to check every single member and compare them to every other member to see who had the highest skills and who would give the bonuses. Now imaging that happening in a 100 man gang travelling through space. After every jump, each person is compared against 99 others...ouch! Why wouldn't you just limit the comparisons to only the people who have the ability to give bonuses? I.E. BC's and Command ships. It seems to me you would only have to compare a handful of ships agains't each other since only a few of them have the possibility of giving bonuses. Evolution in Eve:
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:57:00 - [44] Originally by: Jiekon Originally by: Roshan longshot Is there going to be a formation option? Sphere, blob, line abreast etc? Eventually, yes, maybe, it's something we've always wanted to integrate into EvE I'm curious why. Only real benefits I see this would give would be that the fleet members wouldn't bump to each others tha easily and some sort of "Mwahaha nos+neut+remote armor repping/shieldboosting blob!" could be made easier but...eh, I just can't see the real benefit of having the ability to have formations in EVE. So thus...Why? You are #27 in queue to see this signature.
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:58:00 - [45] what takes priority? say a squad commander has better skills than the fleet commander, will the members of that squad still get bonus's from their squad commander since he has better skills?
Thalera Saldana Minmatar Oxymorons from Outer Space	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:02:00 - [46] Titans - not that I think its something I'll ever have to worry about, but curious anyway: Does the Titan's x/lvl gang bonus (i.e. cap recharge for Avatar) work for a fleet or a gang or does the titan driver have to be a fleet commander for this to work? Thal
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:29:00 - [47] Originally by: Jiekon Originally by: Montaire Can we ever change the name of the squads ? It would be more intuitive. Instead of Squad 1, wing 1. I'd have Deklein Wing with Recon, Tackle and Battleship squads. that's quite a good idea.... If you do implement this idea, please add a save feature (like you have for overview settings). ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standar Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.14 23:04:00 - [48] Q: Will it ever be possible to move the fleet view from the overview? It just get more and more crowded with each patch it seems. Now you have overview, drones, fleet and broadcast and there is no way you can have them all open at the same time unless you have some monster resolution. Remember that 1024x768 is still listed as the required res not 1920x1440.. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Decairn Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.14 23:04:00 - [49] If there is a FC->WC->SC chain, with multiple SCs and one of the SCs doesn't have the skill level, do the other squads get the bonuses from FC and WC still? The overview is crowded, can the fleet info be pulled to a seperate window please? Can we have the Boss always shown above the FC? In a big gang, Boss can get lost and is difficult to find resulting in slow reformation of fleet. There is a lot of administration involved in setting up and maintaining fleets of any decent size. To that end: Can we have a wing text channel so that wing command can communicate only with their wing? Using voice now with multiple commanders is painful. Can we have restrictions on ship type settable on squad or wing level so that people can automatically get assigned to the correct groups? Common splits now are BS wing 1, frigates wing 2, other wing 3 etc. Invite to fleet should put people in first available slot of the correct fitler type. Can we have a (manually initiated) auto-selection of commander promotion within a squad? As people come and go its a PITA to keep saying 'ok who has got leadership V'? Can we stream line the right clicks a bit so wing commander doesnt have to go wing 1->squadron 1->blah. Remove the wing 1 menu level, allow user to get straight to the commands. --Decairn
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.14 23:05:00 - [50] Cool ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Driven Caldari Mass Produced Venturi Starea	Posted - 2006.12.14 23:06:00 - [51] How fantastic for all of us that the gang system has been worked out. Grand. Brilliant. Now how about making the in game auction system usable? I BUY TECH II AMMO BPOs
Ghana Straa	Posted - 2006.12.14 23:39:00 - [52] Awesome info . . . I do like the system now and it can only get better ! I do have a side note question . . . I noticed a "scout" option or something like that when I right clicked on the gang one evening . . . something about a scout ? Thanx
Scouty McScouter	Posted - 2006.12.14 23:49:00 - [53] Originally by: Driven How fantastic for all of us that the gang system has been worked out. Grand. Brilliant. Now how about making the in game auction system usable? rotfl, give the guy a break man, he's not all of CCP so he can't do everything at once. 1 quick question: i'm not sure if this was asked before, but is CCP looking to add more leadership skills? ie, +damage skills or +ship agility skills or +gun cap usage? My my my. Oops I just died again. What a good pie rat you are!
Angry Sheep Amarr Aur0ra	Posted - 2006.12.15 00:26:00 - [54] Can we have all this as a nice diagram please, be brilliant for quick reference Ta It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
M'haratoh	Posted - 2006.12.15 00:39:00 - [55] There seems to be a few misconceptions here. First up, its trivial to make a small gang and get bonuses - you form a fleet and demote the boss to squad member and then promote your member with highest leadership to squadleader (it could be the boss or someone else). A three click process. You do not need skilled people to fill holes in fleet so there is no need to stress if you dont have enough leadership skills. The Boss can make anyone any role, you simply wont get any bonus apply if you dont have skills for the role. Also note any commander plus the boss can invite people into those parts of the fleet under their command. This means you can share the gang invite duty. Squad leaders can invite to their sqaud (up to 10 people max), Wing Commanders to any squads in their wing, and Fleet Commanders can invite to teh whole fleet. This is entirely irrelvent of skills. Anyway, thats what I've found, please pick me up on errors :)
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.15 00:45:00 - [56] Originally by: "Jiekon" I don't think small gangs will ever have the bonuses applied to them, but this is worthy of being posted in the ideas and sugegstions forum as it kinda makes sense. WHY NOT? As it is, small gangs can get the bonuses anyway, but you have to go through the trouble of creating a fleet, assigning a commander not mentioning the extra channels involved that were unneeded and unwanted in the first place. Then there's the issue of requiring sufficient leadership skill which is not a problem for me personally but royally screws the newer players. Quote: We're not gonna dumb down eve, if you want to make a fleet, you have to do it yourself manually. Seriously... you have dumbed down Eve quite enough with the scan probes mess, the tons randomness in combat, lower skill requirements on pretty much everything and passive supertanks that I don't think a triviality like this will change much. As pointed out, converting to fleet takes time with assigning the commanders, putting people in the right squads etc. This is messy to do in space (even without the terrible lag involved). With people coming and leaving on the fly you can't exactly expect us to dock up and wait while the commander sorts the fleet (which can only be done from space in the first place)... Quote: I think my first post pretty much covered who gives bonuses to who and who doesn't, if theres something about it you don't understand, ask here. It would be nice to know when bonuses stop working. Ie, I've found out that if just the wing commander of a few squads docks, none of the squads receive ANY gang bonuses even if they're next to their assigned squad commanders. I assume the same holds true for jumping. Now imagine a fleet commander CTD'ing in the middle of a big fight and your entire fleet will be bonusless. I have the feeling even CCP themselves have no idea how gangs work. Then there's the issue of the destroyed ship. As it is, you don't exactly have ANY control on who will be shot down first. You can guess, sure, but if it happens to be your assigned wing commander that's being killed your entire wing will be bonusless and at a significant disadvantage. There is not such thing as "protecting the commander" aside from dropping him in a PoS forcefield. It's completely silly gang bonuses stop working when the assigned squad/wing commander loses his ship. And then finally, why was this stupid system implemented in the first place. First you introduce cool leadership skills that people like myself specialize in. Then you even add specialized tech II ships to get even more out of it. Yay. Then you COMPLETELY screw every player that doesn't sit in a 50+ blob on a daily basis (ie, 85% of your playerbase give or take) by implementing this. Yes, I can still give my gangmates a bonus, but if I want a second I need to train it personally instead of one guy going armor warfare and another getting skirmish to complement eachother. Not even mentioning that I can't fly in a Vulture and an Eos at the same time either. This new system that came out of the blue all of a sudden is not only inconvenient, but also unasked for AND implemented poorly. All in the name of reducing lag. If lag was the whole problem you'd just have made it so the gang leader could assign up to four people as bonus-givers (ie, one for each leadership skilltree). That'd have gotten rid of the thousands of relative checks and wouldn't actually deny smallscale combat the gang bonuses. Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
DuPuy	Posted - 2006.12.15 03:29:00 - [57] My christmas wish is... 1) For a moveable gang icon/message panel. 2) for a moveable/collapsable gang status window. At the moment, too many of our squaddies are not seeing the messages flashing down in the far right corner of their screen... We'd all love to move that icon line in particular up to near where the targeted items are and overview list... up near the top... where our eyes spend most of their time (if we want to stay alive, that is)...
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2006.12.15 04:47:00 - [58] - will "warp to member" in squad view be fixed (currently results in the "not in gang or in this system" thingy - warping to a chat member works x_x)? - could the client be coded so that fleet&wing just dont show up when there's only a squad? - could the broadcast "window" be coded to collapse properly? ---- could overview (and company) be [eventually] reformed? "selected item", overview, 5 drones, gang _and_ broadcast just doesn't work on a 17" w/ 1025x768
Sarah Meiskin The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.15 05:21:00 - [59] Has anyone even made it to Fleet Commander 1-5 yet on TQ?
Tareen Kashaar eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.15 05:49:00 - [60] With respect to small gangs (read: fleets), why doesn't the gang boss have to ability to disband a fleet? If I have a gang of say 5 people, we will have one squad commander = boss and 4 members. Now, to disband the gang, boss has to make himself fleet commander to be able to disband. IMHO he should be able to disband in his function as a gang boss alone. Also please make Squad and Wing commanders inherit their superiors' bonuses too... And give us a more customizable overview/UI, it gets simply ridiculously impossible to handle in anything below 1600x1200 if you have drones, fleet and even targets to manage... (keyboard shortcuts would rock too, kthx ) --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!

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