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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 26 post(s) |
unit01
Amarr
Dark Knights of Deneb
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.15 06:28:00 -
[61]
Thanks ccp for a new gang system.
Just a few suggestions if i may.
1: FC, Wing COmmanders and Squad Commanders need their own chat channel so they can sort out their structure beter between themselves and not have to resort to spamming gang or vent for this logistics.
2: Is there a way that you could code it in who has leadership V or gang skills so that an FC can find and promote sufficiently skilled ppl to the correct roles?
3: Renaming of squads is definetly a good idea. At the moment you have to sometimes jot down which squad is my inty squad. Where did i put that cruiser squad or ......is wing 3 the bs wing or the dictors?
4: The new broadcast system is a great new tool and helps a lot if you missed something on vent. At the moment if you want to have a member warp to a gate you right click the gate and choose Broadcast warp to... Can you code it into the broadcast that the target becomes an actual autolink? This would remove a lot of useless clicks as ppl wont have to search for their objectives but have it immediately available and can act upon it.
5: Claim Boss status is missing. If the boss ctd's or quits then there is no way for anyone to claim Boss status.
6: The little icon on your right if you are FC/Wing Commander is useful but it does not inform you if you squad commanders are transferring bonuses. Can you expand it so that the FC/WC's can see if the bonuses get filtered down? Put a little red/green icon to every SC's row.
7: when you click on a member in a gang through the gang overview you get a pretty picture of that member but not a lot of useful information really that is not available anywhere else. Can you populate the overview information with useful information about the member of the gang member. aka ship type, health information and my wishful thinking leadership skills.
Well thats all i can think off at the moment.
Hope you take this input and at least laff at it
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.15 08:36:00 -
[62]
So bonuses to big fleet battles? How about small pvp gan(g/k)s?
Are we safted because we will never get any bonuses? I was about to start training for warfare modules when I read that your nerffing gangs. I'm glad that I trained only 1mil SP in Leadership 
"It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö"
"A world without pain" |
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Jiekon
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Posted - 2006.12.15 09:02:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: suzy homemaker
First of all thanks for the hard work with this system.
1) Can we get a collapsible option on the gang buttons similar to the ones on the squad, wing and fleet lines?
2)Why is tagging limited to the Fleet commander only? Is it possible for the highest rated commander in the system have that option or at least to have the highest rated commander in the fleet to have it if the highest is squad or wing.
Thanks
An option to collapse the gang buttons is something i`m seeing a lot of requests for and is something i will bring to the attention of the UI guys.
I`m not sure why only the fleet commander can tag something. I`ll do some testing on SISI regarding this and pass it on to the relevant person. I`m guessing you mean <right click > Tag > number / letter> so it shows on the overview?
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~Jiekon
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Bug Reporting
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Jiekon
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Posted - 2006.12.15 09:03:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Blind Man
what takes priority? say a squad commander has better skills than the fleet commander, will the members of that squad still get bonus's from their squad commander since he has better skills?
From what i gather in testing, the person with the better skills takes priority, so if you have a fleet commander with lvl 5 of a skill and a squad commander with lvl 3, you will be affected by the fleet commanders skill untill he dies, then teh squadron commanders skill comes into effect.
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~Jiekon
Known Issues
Bug Reporting
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Jiekon
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Posted - 2006.12.15 09:04:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Thalera Saldana
Titans - not that I think its something I'll ever have to worry about, but curious anyway:
Does the Titan's x/lvl gang bonus (i.e. cap recharge for Avatar) work for a fleet or a gang or does the titan driver have to be a fleet commander for this to work?
Thal
I`ll check this on SISI today and get back to you
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~Jiekon
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Jiekon
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Posted - 2006.12.15 09:09:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Decairn
If there is a FC->WC->SC chain, with multiple SCs and one of the SCs doesn't have the skill level, do the other squads get the bonuses from FC and WC still?
The overview is crowded, can the fleet info be pulled to a seperate window please?
Can we have the Boss always shown above the FC? In a big gang, Boss can get lost and is difficult to find resulting in slow reformation of fleet.
There is a lot of administration involved in setting up and maintaining fleets of any decent size. To that end:
Can we have a wing text channel so that wing command can communicate only with their wing? Using voice now with multiple commanders is painful.
Can we have restrictions on ship type settable on squad or wing level so that people can automatically get assigned to the correct groups? Common splits now are BS wing 1, frigates wing 2, other wing 3 etc. Invite to fleet should put people in first available slot of the correct fitler type.
Can we have a (manually initiated) auto-selection of commander promotion within a squad? As people come and go its a PITA to keep saying 'ok who has got leadership V'?
Can we stream line the right clicks a bit so wing commander doesnt have to go wing 1->squadron 1->blah. Remove the wing 1 menu level, allow user to get straight to the commands.
1) only if the squad is "active" as in, he has the relevant leadership skills to control the squad (from testing, he can't invite mroe people into a squad than he can control)
2) This has been asked a lot and is something i will pass on to the UI guys
3) Something i will again pass onto the UI guys, but it's not very practical, in my opinion, if the boss is a squad memebr "ohnoes, what squad is the boss guy in" In times where the FC is the boss and he gets killed, the WC should take over as boss, or highest ranked member.
4) I`ll let the relevant people know about the requests for a wing channel and the other UI elements.
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~Jiekon
Known Issues
Bug Reporting
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Jiekon
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Posted - 2006.12.15 09:11:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ghana Straa
Awesome info . . . I do like the system now and it can only get better ! I do have a side note question . . . I noticed a "scout" option or something like that when I right clicked on the gang one evening . . . something about a scout ? Thanx
Scouts are usually people in fast ships that scout ahead of the main fleet. They have some gang commands available only to them and their primary role is finding targets (or trying to keep the fleet away from targets)
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Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2006.12.15 09:19:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Kuolematon
So bonuses to big fleet battles? How about small pvp gan(g/k)s?
Are we safted because we will never get any bonuses? I was about to start training for warfare modules when I read that your nerffing gangs. I'm glad that I trained only 1mil SP in Leadership
I really don't get why people think the fleet structure is only for big fleet battles. Yes, there are fleet commander and wing commander positions, and a whole fleet heirarchy, but you don't need to use all of it to get the bonuses.
I quite happily get bonuses from my "fleet" of 2 players, one squad commander and one squad member. The whole fleet system is, in fact, far easier on both skill training and organisation when you stick to small gangs (i.e. 10 or less so you all fit in one squad).
There are only two situations the new system really "shafts":
1) Groups that shared out gang training, so each char only had to do a bit, and the old system then merged the highest levels of each for a super-bonused gang.
2) Larger gangs that now have to rely on many leadership-trained chars to propagate the bonuses.
Neither of these things I have a problem with - it makes leadership skills a proper speciality rather than something everyone trains a bit of, and makes characters with that speciality far more valuable to the group.
Originally by: Hllaxiu
The real problem comes when the 11th person comes into gang. You need to spend a few minutes saying in channel asking "ok, who has leadership 5... who has wing command." before that person can actually get into the gang. And then you have a squadron with 1 person in it, which defeats the purpose of the squadron, so then you start balancing it out between the two. God help you if someone attacks you while doing this...
Originally by: Righteous Fury
And also to be fair, gang sizes change on the fly based on people's real-life commitments, pilots travelling from Jita to meet a gang in Rens, etc. Asking people to dock when their gang status is in flux is pretty ridiculous.
Well, if you're expecting your gang size to fluctuate, surely it makes sense to build in some space within your structure before you start? You don't have to wait until the 11th person arrives before forming up the second squadron, and if you expect more than 10 people to arrive, it makes sense to set up the fleet to accomodate that before you start.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Dwight Hammerhead
Caldari
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.15 09:54:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
If lag was the whole problem you'd just have made it so the gang leader could assign up to four people as bonus-givers (ie, one for each leadership skilltree). That'd have gotten rid of the thousands of relative checks and wouldn't actually deny smallscale combat the gang bonuses.
What the man said! This thing was said time and time again while this new crap was still in discussion in the Kali Development forum. Or shall I say was supposed to be in discussion since CCP just came out and said - ok flyboys, this is how its gonna be. Some discussion that was!
I mean really, is it that fecking hard for once to the the simple and logical thing! righ click - set scout.. right click - make boss, right click - make BONUS PERSON/BUFFER/SPACE PRIEST whathever! Did that actually came to any1s mind in CCP? Not only the new system is hard and slow to magane, but it also nerfs the use of gang mods (as if they were widely used before) aaand on top of that forces ppl with gang skills to actually be FCs now which is just unbeliebably stupid. No the "Dont want to be FC, dont give your bonuses to others if u dont want to" crap is not valid. Why? Because some ppl actaully chose that skill path with having one game mechanic in front of them. Now all of a sudden CCP changes the whole game mechanic of what they are doing in a fleet, forcing them to do smth they werent forced to before. To put it simple - I never signed for any of this.
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Too bad at photoshop and too poor to buy a sig |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.12.15 10:57:00 -
[70]
Will we see gang mechanics like friendly lock, protective actions and things like that come to EVE in the near future?
There have been reports of pilots salvaging wrecks they didn't lock first. This might hva been some strange lag event, but ...
What will your lunch be today?
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The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
FireFoxx80
Caldari
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.12.15 11:31:00 -
[71]
Off the top of my head (and I am know that some of these have been mentioned before)....
Naming of squads/wings:
So I can create a 'Support' Squad, and a 'Battleship' Squad, so people have a rough idea of where they need to be.
Make squad/wing/fleet commander, even if one already in place:
Just swap their positions or something. As removing squad commanders at the moment is very laggy/buggy.
Auto-Boss:
If the fleet boss drops for some reason, I think the best thing is to give Boss to the 'highest' member of the fleet. Eg the leader of "Wing 1", then leader of "Squad 1", then the first member of "Squad 1".
An indication of squads from above:
Having a rough idea of who can create a valid squad for bonuses to apply. Maybe potential squad/wing commanders to have an icon next to them? I'm not saying that we need an auto-gang option, I am just saying that we now spend 20 minutes when setting up a fleet, asking "who has leadership 5/wing command 2" or "are you all getting bonuses?"
I think this has been asked before, but here goes: Assuming I have Wing Command 3, and a stack of gang skills, mods, etc; and that I am the commander of a wing. Now, I have two squads: Squad 1 has 10 pilots, and a squad commander with leadership 5. Squad 2 has 10 pilots, but a squad commander with leadership 3.
Am I right in thinking that Squad 1 inherits both wing and squad commander bonuses; whereas squad 2 gets nothing?
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Traxio Nacho
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.15 11:47:00 -
[72]
Quote:
In certain circumstances while playing in windowed mode, gang broadcast and drone command interfaces would overlap. This has been resolved.
Jiekon can you confirm this bug is being looked at please as it clearly has NOT been resolved?
As it is if you get this bug its quite difficult if not impossible to see gang commands or to act on them.
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oil
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Posted - 2006.12.15 11:50:00 -
[73]
Edited by: oil on 15/12/2006 12:04:53
Edited by: oil on 15/12/2006 12:03:35
Edited by: oil on 15/12/2006 11:56:10
Edited by: oil on 15/12/2006 11:53:44
Edited by: oil on 15/12/2006 11:52:29
why was the new system introduced in unchanged form against the expressed will of 90% of the posters in the relevant threads?
negatives:
-combining out of game leadership abilities with ingame leadership sp is just wrong.
pilots which trained leadership to max to help their corp/alliance are now obsolete if those pilots have now wish or ability to actually lead a fleet. many millions of wasted skillpoints on the server
gangbonus-guy was a support role. now its something entirely different
-fleatleaders have usuall no second accounts with a leadership sp char. they fly combat ships or covert ops.
freshmen gangleaders will have a hard time to emerge because there always are others in the gang with better skills.
-all will probably agree that we need more gangleeders. why force them to train leadershipskills? gangleaders burn out easy so why make it difficult for others to fill in for a time to give the gangleaders a rest? complete crap i see no more rooky gangleeaders emerging.
- i start to doubt, that the devs ever participated in a REAL battle. the situations there are sometimes so chaotic that selecting a replacement for the fallen fleet/squad/wing- comander will be low on the list. even if it were high on the list then ccp should first give us the ability to choose a new one with removing lag.
the reason given was that its introduced to reduce lag.
the obvious multiple times stated saolution: let the fleetleader fill 4 slots of gang assist roles in his fleet. one for each race. if he doesnt asignt those roles then his skills count.
let those people select their own replacement for the case of ship loss or logoff/crash. fill the replacement automatcall into the slot in case of shiploss or logoff/crash.
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Vicarrah
Minmatar
Three Kind Buds
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Posted - 2006.12.15 12:50:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Vicarrah on 15/12/2006 12:51:12
Originally by: Marquise
Originally by: Jiekon
To be fair, that should be sorted out before you even think of undocking. Being ill prepared can only lead to disaster.
ok, we can create gangs in station, but how do we convert them to fleets without undocking and using the overview fleet menu?
also, how do we move people around within fleets while we're in station?
you might not have noticed this one Jiekon, but if you're telling us that fleet setup should be performed before undocking, wouldn't it be nice to be able to get at the fleet overview while docked? :P
[Edit - Spelling]
Vicarrah
Tahiri Advisor |
suzy homemaker
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Posted - 2006.12.15 12:55:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Jiekon
I`m not sure why only the fleet commander can tag something. I`ll do some testing on SISI regarding this and pass it on to the relevant person. I`m guessing you mean <right click > Tag > number / letter> so it shows on the overview?
Yes that is what i was referring too.
On a side note, any chance of a dialog text box for tagging rather than the number /letter?
Thanks.
Suzy
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.15 12:58:00 -
[76]
1. Fleet/Gang information MUST be made into a separate, moveable window. I currently NEVER use it because I don't have enough space between overview and drones. I need overview large since I need an overview.
2. Why can't we just flick warfare bonus' to being 4 main people and let the gang skills control size and some more nominal aspect of gang control? The current system really doesn't make sense - why are healers/technicians being told to also lead the squad/wing/fleet?
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Dotar Sojat
Caldari
Reality Check
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Posted - 2006.12.15 13:03:00 -
[77]
Jiekon
Quote:
I don't think small gangs will ever have the bonuses applied to them...
That little tidbit of information would have probably been nice to know before many thousands of us spent huge blocks of time skilling along these lines. |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.15 13:25:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Dotar Sojat
Jiekon
Quote:
I don't think small gangs will ever have the bonuses applied to them...
That little tidbit of information would have probably been nice to know before many thousands of us spent huge blocks of time skilling along these lines.
I think you misunderstand him.
If you have a gang of 4, on converting to a fleet, as long as 1 guy has leadership 2, his bonuses will work for the rest of the gang. If you get a 5th guy who has leadership 5 and wingcommand 1, you can make him wingcommander, so he and the guy with leadership 2 give bonuses to the gang of 5.
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Harisdrop
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.15 13:28:00 -
[79]
If you dont have the skills to accommodate more members please let us place them in a gang.
I only had Wing 1 and after 10 in my squad I had a hard time with the remaining 5. I had a total of 15.
I dont see the fleet command skill anywhere.
New NPC Region |
Morgassana
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Posted - 2006.12.15 13:31:00 -
[80]
36d 11h 46m to Wing Command V
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Dotar Sojat
Caldari
Reality Check
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Posted - 2006.12.15 13:48:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Dotar Sojat
Jiekon
Quote:
I don't think small gangs will ever have the bonuses applied to them...
That little tidbit of information would have probably been nice to know before many thousands of us spent huge blocks of time skilling along these lines.
I think you misunderstand him.
If you have a gang of 4, on converting to a fleet, as long as 1 guy has leadership 2, his bonuses will work for the rest of the gang. If you get a 5th guy who has leadership 5 and wingcommand 1, you can make him wingcommander, so he and the guy with leadership 2 give bonuses to the gang of 5.
No misunderstanding...Rather than bilking those of us that had strong gang skills, rendering them useless, maybe they should have focused on making the hardware stable enough to accommodate large fleet battles. The server stability issue is once again swept under the rug by the deliberate addition of shameless time sinks and more content that doesn't function.
"We're very sorry sir we still can't make your truck run, but we did install new tires to make it look nice in your driveway." |
Mr Xzomo
Carebear Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:21:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Mr Xzomo on 15/12/2006 15:22:07
Edited by: Mr Xzomo on 15/12/2006 15:21:50
Would it be possible with a graphical layout of this ?
Since some ppl have easier understand the complexity when seeing it .
/Sincerley
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Apertotes
Nuevos Horizontes
O X I D E
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Posted - 2006.12.15 15:38:00 -
[83]
ok, i am fine with gang hyerarchy and all that. i think it was a big improvement to be able to distribute pilots into wings/squads.
but i have a big problem with bonuses. see, until we knew about the new fleet features, me and some friends used to train leadership skills to help each other during common operations. but, since training those skills was a little bit boring and gave no benefit whatsoever when flying alone, we decided that each one of us would train and spec on one or two skills, so one or us trained information warfare, another one armored, another one siege and another one skirmish, and some of us also trained mining foreman/director.
that way, when on a gang, each one of us gave bonuses to everybody.
now, with the new system, only one of us (squad leader) can give bonuses, so we feel like we wasted many weeks of training for nothing.
i know we could train for wing and fleet command, and have 3 pilots giving bonus, but that still is a bad solution, since commanders dont get bonuses, and still 3 bonuses are less than 6.
so, we all (me and my friends) would love to get rid of our now completely worthless leadership skills and get the sp refounded onto something useful again. that, or to have a new fleet feature where the boss can assign who is gonna give each type of bonus inside the fleet, so that we can have again 5 people giving bonuses (and there would be no need for calculations and comparatives like with the old system)
i know everybody has trained something that later has been nerfed, but this time is different. it has not been nerfed, it has been made completely useless on the most strict sense of the word: now, on a fleet, my leadership skills dont work, unless i am a commander, on which case, my mate's skills dont work. so, either way, useless.
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TheMoog
Caldari
3240 Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.15 16:15:00 -
[84]
Can we get a new position within the fleet, Warfare Link Specialist?
This position would allow the member to give his gang bonus to the squad/wing/fleet, but is not in control of the said squad/wing/fleet.
Only one member could be in that position for a given squad/wing/fleet.
His bonus would apply to the gang the same way as the leader's. no stacking, with only the bigger bonus being taken into account.
That way, it would allow people who want to give bonus to the gang, but don't want/are unable to be in charge, without going back to the old laggy system. |
Vermis
Prox XII
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.15 16:37:00 -
[85]
If I'm understanding how gang bonuses are applied this should be a graphical representation of it.
Fleet Bonus Structure
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Karash Amerius
Amarr
O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.12.15 16:43:00 -
[86]
I would first like to say that I truly like the new changes to the 'gang' (now fleet) system. You have finally given something to players that have high CHA and WIL attributes...so good job CCP for coming through on this.
Some Suggestions:
We need automatic promotions. Please allow the gang boss or unit commander the ability to set a 'second in command'. This title (XO for example) only duty is to be automatically promoted if the unit commander is forced into a pod. If the unit commander ejects from his ship, or self destructs, the XO takes over immediately.
We need fleet templates. We need to be able to save fleet structures based on ship class just like we save overview settings. This template should allow automatic shuffling and even promotions by clicking the button. This idea needs work, but should be looked at.
We need people to stop whining about small gang warfare. Serious guys, train up leadership to level 4 and you will be fine for the most part. It doesnt take a lot of time to get Wing Commander to level 2. RF, there is your 10 man gang.
We need a better graphical layout. Even if you assign it to a separate window and hotkey, we need a better logical layout of the fleet...complete with ship types under each member's name as well as location.
Overall, I am very pleased with the changes. There is a lot of bellyaching about having to train new skills, but Wing Commander 1 is not that time consuming to get. Good work CCP!
Merc Blog |
Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.15 16:56:00 -
[87]
Quick question
We were setting up a fleet a couple of weeks ago
We had two people with Wing Commander III trained up - giving them the ability to manage 3 (and give bonuses) to 3 squads of 10 people in each.
However we had seven squads (the last one consisting of just a couple of players)
As soon as this 4th Squad was assigned to one of the wing commanders all the bonuses started going screwy.
It seemed that the fourth squad and two of the others were getting the Wing Commander's bonuses but one of the others had lost them. Is there anyway to manage how this happens so you can decide which wings get the bonuses?
And finally why dont the squad commanders get the bonuses supplied by the Wing commanders / Fleet commanders - seems like an oversight to me.
We have found that often the best way to ensure a squad gets all the bonuses is to not have a squad lead and demote everyone to an ordinary member who then get the wing/fleet commanders bonuses.
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Amira Silvermist
Yazata Spenta
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2006.12.15 17:21:00 -
[88]
Is there any information about formations out there Jiekon? A blog or dev posts or anything else?
Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0% |
Karash Amerius
Amarr
O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.12.15 17:54:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Karash Amerius on 15/12/2006 17:55:14
Originally by: Hardin
Quick question
We were setting up a fleet a couple of weeks ago
We had two people with Wing Commander III trained up - giving them the ability to manage 3 (and give bonuses) to 3 squads of 10 people in each.
However we had seven squads (the last one consisting of just a couple of players)
As soon as this 4th Squad was assigned to one of the wing commanders all the bonuses started going screwy.
It seemed that the fourth squad and two of the others were getting the Wing Commander's bonuses but one of the others had lost them. Is there anyway to manage how this happens so you can decide which wings get the bonuses?
And finally why dont the squad commanders get the bonuses supplied by the Wing commanders / Fleet commanders - seems like an oversight to me.
We have found that often the best way to ensure a squad gets all the bonuses is to not have a squad lead and demote everyone to an ordinary member who then get the wing/fleet commanders bonuses.
Now that is very interesting Hardin, because in our tests you HAD to have a squad commander (with appropriate skills) for the squad members to recieve anything from the Wing Commander. No one has the FC skill yet, but thats how it worked for us. If you do not have a SC, you do not get bonuses from the WC we have found. Can you make sure on your testing since I dont want to be smoking meth here.
Merc Blog |
Shabesa
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Posted - 2006.12.15 18:14:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Jiekon
I think only commanders in those ships give bonuses, i`m not 100% sure on this as i haven't tested it yet. But gang modules from an EOS are only given if a commander is flying it
One of bigger Kali blunders tbh. It's not like there were gangs having 40+ command ships so "checking" load on server can't be issue there. And if server was checking every member after each session change, that's bad session change design anyway.
Can hardly believe this was design decision; prolly another example of "devs, can you simplify this? or we'll code it for the next 6 months!"
Not dumbing Eve down. Yeah, right. Look, a Damnation. Primary is ...
Appreciate the effort to explain this mess but to put it bluntly, outsource coding. I'm pretty sure you could find decent company through your China partner that will do Eve 2 properly in a year.
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