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Lord XSiV
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
   |
Posted - 2006.12.17 14:49:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lord XSiV on 17/12/2006 14:55:21
Sorry guys, I am still working on my forum warrior skills, with just purchasing 'topic posting' and
training it to level 1. thanks for the tip on getting it together in wordpad first, so hopefully
this works..
So on with the show.
As I mentioned in another thread that should be coming to its end full course, I am starting up
another thread to discuss the deficiencies of ASCN, why it went all wrong and the reason why it
cannot be 'fixed'. In the process I have grabbed a few post holdings and I already see the someone
has jumped in with a space for rent holder. Dam forum trolls.
I will be making reference to quotations made on alliance/corp forums so no doubt there will be some
whine about it not being fair, hax, cheating, exploiting, etc but that is the ASCN way of covering
up for a deficiency; blame others. It is generally accepted that ASCN alliance security is lax and
pretty much non-existant so the informaiton is in the public domain anyhow. Interestingly enough,
EDF will be surprised at the x-posting form their forums as they have already removed my access but
unbeknown to them it is basically publicly accessable as well.
To start off, I like to first put out a comparison to enlighten the community to get a basic
foundational understanding for which they can relate. Being a big fan of movies, the one that
closest comes to mind for this case is V for Vendetta although I was really leaning towards Orwell's
classic 1984 but thought it might be a bit too much.
In Vendetta, the evil government controlled the population using FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and doubt)
to maintain complete command. ASCN HC can be reffered to as the evil government with various players
representing the personas of that government's inner circle. Anyone not towing the party line was
'black bagged' and never heard form again. The media was 100% controlled by the government and all
information was 'cleansed' prior to distribution. For my part, I seem to be playing the role of the
investigator, who during the course of his investigation discovers the real truth behind the
mechanics of the evil empire as V goes about accomplishing his goal of overthrowing the government.
V can be reffered to as bob, which is somewhat of an anamoly, however the drive and determination to
complete an objective can easily be related. Ironic how ASCN's motto, Strength through Unit, Unity
through Feyth is the same as the evil government's in that movie....
So go watch it and see for yourself.
Ok, on to the juicy tidbits now that I have made you read all that. Now let's establish the reason
why I fell out of line with the party line. The root cause can be first found within the EDF corp
where it was asked if we should even stay in ASCN....
[Quote:]
Ascendent Frontier
ASCN when it first formed, was formed on the principle of everyone fights. At first we where a very
strong Alliance where people would be afriad to come down to raid our space because when they did,
they'd be blobbed off the map. The apitome of this was during the EC-P campaign where we camped the
EC-P stystem for 5 days straight whilst BoB and The5 took out G's Capital Yards. This lead to G
disbanding and reforming as D2.
At some point we lost our way and became soft. Raiders would come and people would dock or expect
corps like EDF, CoRM, IXC and CLS etc. to do the killing. When DDC, EOG and Solst split off to
become AXE, the balance was never redressed, despite Drakma and I long saying we needed to get out
of the mentality of being a hobbit - i.e. and contrary to popular opinion that it meant we where
carebears, it meant we had a policy of keep your nose out of our business and we'll keep it out of
yours. This made us soft.
[End quote]
Now continuing on with quotes, let me post this in regards to the 'fearless leader' known as Cyvok.
cont'
|
Lord XSiV
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 14:51:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Lord XSiV on 17/12/2006 14:56:48
[Quote:]
The BoB war
When we first started, we outnumbered BoB 3-1. Problem is not enough people wanted to get involved.
Cyvok refused to listen to Drakma, Virtuozzo, Gilbert and I about getting tough with corps and
kicking them out if need be. As a result, we reached the point we have today with the apathy that's
set in. As you all know, ASCN was even sat on its collective arse Then we lost the Titan, 0OY to underhanded tactics and Cyvok left and Virt took over. The problem is it looks like nothing has changed with the new Executor. The problem doesn't lie with Virt, nor HC.
It lies with too few CEOs being willing to kick out members who don't want to get involved. This has
left the board awfully stressed and burnt out.
[End quote]
So let me ask you if I am the only one who shares the same sentiments of whether the alliance has
let its own members down? If you have corporaitons in the alliance that are already asking its
members their opinion on whether to continue or not with the alliance, doesn't that bring some
questions up?
ASCN in typical fashion would rather hold me up as a scape goat than deal with their issues. Going
back to the movie comparison, it is easier for them to blag bag someone than deal with the truth.
[Quote:]
Can EDF do me a favor and resolve this issue with Lord Xsiv?
Even though he's been smacking the crap out of us on the forums, I gave him a chance to stop and
bring his complaints here. Then he smacked us some more.
I don't care if you kick then KOS, or just kick him, but he had ample opportunity to not be an ass
and take his stuff back to empire if he hates ASCN so much.
[end quote]
Coming from one of the remaining leaders, this is a prime example of how a person is treated in ASCN
when they don't agree 100% with the dictators group. To show an example of how far these people
believe there control mechnisms are entrenched, let me give another quote from the same person:
'You may not like how he left the alliance, or him as a person. You're entitled to feel how you
want. You're not allowed to come on the Eve-online forums, and blast people. '
So, because I disagree with leaders using unexperienced players as meatshields, I am outcast. To the remaining people in ASCN, just remember this.
Now for the propaganda, and I will take a quote from one of their frontman in public relations.
[Quote:]
Let the Xsiv situation alone. If I know McCreedy, Xsiv will be lucky if all he gets is a booting.
[End quote.]
Sure. rusty spoon and all. Boo hoo. Let me say this. First I said I wasn't going to talk about John
as the corp already knows my opinions on that issue. If they want to open it up publicly, so be it,
I can play in that arena as well. It will be equally as entertaining.
As for John coming after me, it would be his worst mistake. Unlike the others who he ostracized (sp)
over the past number of years in the game, I have a tendancy to fight back. And I can truthfully say
that I do have the resources to take it to him if he wants to go down that path. Plus I am one
determined SoB....
Ok enough of that, so what went wrong with ASCN?
Well first, Cyvok was only in it for the shiny toy and the scam that running an alliance of
carebears would allow him to pull off. That is pretty much old news. Only ASCN members deny it as
they are unable to see the forest through the trees. Cycok was always busy with amdinistration
duties. Hogwash. He just told people what he wanted and others did the work for him. He wanted
outposts to build his legacy, not that of ASCN. It is him that gets to run around and claim that he
did that. He forgot, or more than likely ignored a simple fact in EVe that if you build it, you have to be able to defend it. Because of his ego mongering to grow quickly he decided that defenses were unimportant. You are now seeing the results of those decisions.
|
Lord XSiV
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 14:53:00 -
[3]
Now it would have been ok if his tact was to use politics to ensure that ASCN space was not to be
invaded. Unfortunately his ego got in the way of that as he believed no one in the game was at the
same level as ASCN. It was that egotistical attitude that he spread throughout ASCN, which helped
instill the fear foundation in the member base to ensure control. Afterall, if ASCN was so great and couldn't be attacked/taken out of the game, any player would be silly to jeopardize themselves by ticking ASCN off. SO most went aobut their merry way doing what they were told. Now we come to the point that it was all some great facade.
So having said that, it is no great surprise that he quit. As all of the assets (corp, alliance)
have already been moved to empire and available for him when he comes back after his 'break', this
is nothing different than any of the other scams that have been perpetrated in Eve over the years.
Interestingly enough however, the take on this haul must be far surpassing as the notorious tax
rates from a rich region netted quite a bit more than what people are accustomed to. think about it, you have 4000 or more carebears working for which you are draining 10% off of. So essentially you have 400 people working for you full time in a game to fatten your wallet. Realize this has been done for a very long time, so the stockpile is huge. The opportune moment came for him to leave the game and he took it.
And don't think CLF or STK hasn't done the same thing. the little trip over to fountain was just an
explanation for the trip they took up to empire with all the assets. It was mentioned on TS several
nights ago that it was discovered that most corps haven't even touched their war reserves. Wonder
why? Maybe its because they were already moved to empire? Maybe it is because those corps know that
it was a lost battle and were prepared beforehand? We may never know the 100% truth but assumptions
will be close enough.
So with that being said, ASCN is left in shambles. Not that it mattered much as bob tactics are well planned out and executed. I can say that now having experienced from the other side of the playing field getting thumped on a regular basis. It is one thing to slam an opponent for dirty cheats if they exist, but it takes pride to admit that you were ooutdone by a stronger opponent. ASCN has no pride and this is something I cannot agree with. Rather than admit deficiencies and do things to remediate them, they were always blaming something else. It was standard doctrine for us to be told to petition all losses regardless, as even if there wasn't a valid reason, at least 1 in 3 would be fullfilled. This kind of behaviour is not something I or many others in the alliance want to be associated with and as a result, here is where we are today...
So to sumarize, ASCN if you are looking for a reason as to why you are losing, here they are in
order:
1. You were scammed by Cyvok
2. Your leadership doesn't understand the game mechanics, nor is willing to learn them
3. Your leadership still tries to maintain control using FUD tactics
4. You have ticked off most of Eve and have basically become a laughingstock
5. Your corps don't want to fight
6. You have absolutely no control over your communications
7. You still don't have a strategy
8. You fail to listen to anyone with common sense
9. You are in denial
10. You have failed to realize that you are losing
As for a solution, there is only one. Give up. Most of your valuables are back up in empire anyhow.
So that's about it. Sorry to dissaspoint, but I tell it how it is. I was set free and this is what
happens. I can say quite frankly that the leadership in ASCN isn't too bright; I am not dealing with mensa members here. As you can tell they are already trying to discredit me on the forums, which is all fine and andy but deep down they know it to be the truth.
Now I get to go pew pew. I see I am now kos
|
Death Merchant
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 14:57:00 -
[4]
1. Number 1# Reason why ASCN is failing.
PLAYERS LIKE Lord XSIV
Thank you ...and good night.
"What happens in Deklien stays in Deklien". |
Larsson7
Minmatar
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 14:58:00 -
[5]
I escrowed you a flame suit in Jita. Suggest you get there and put it on asap 
|
Malius
Solar Storm
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:01:00 -
[6]
Lord Nobody, don't you know you can't get into bob just by sucking thier balls, you actually have to be a good fighter?
|
Drakma
Celestial Fleet
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:02:00 -
[7]
Hahaha, some interesting views you have there. A shame you can't back anything up.
And ASCN HC doesn't have to worry about discrediting you, you do a good job yourself.
If you felt so oppressed, why exactly did you stay for 10 months?
|
R'adeh
Celestial Fleet
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:04:00 -
[8]
Here's a tissue 
__________________________________________________
My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma! |
killerco
Gallente
Confederation of Red Moon
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:05:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Lord XSiV
ASCN HC can be reffered to as the evil government with various players
representing the personas of that government's inner circle. Anyone not towing the party line was
'black bagged' and never heard form again. The media was 100% controlled by the government and all
information was 'cleansed' prior to distribution.
What a load of Bull****.
Mods pls lock this thread
Don't be a great man just be a man |
INSIDEMANALT
Amarr
TEAM LULZ
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Death Merchant
1. Number 1# Reason why ASCN is failing.
PLAYERS LIKE Lord XSIV
Thank you ...and good night.
qtf
|
|
|
EnglishBob
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:05:00 -
[11]
There's a special circle of Eve-Hell reserved for gutless weasels like you.
------------------
|
Miramax
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:09:00 -
[12]
meh, props for posting with your main
i actually think your post makes sense,but hell who am i? 
|
Milena Rage
The Aftermath
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Miramax
meh, props for posting with your main
i actually think your post makes sense,but hell who am i?
ditto
|
Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:11:00 -
[14]
K .. Lord X1v welcome to centre stage.
First of all.. what are your credentials?
Who are you?
Do you have a record of combat? perhaps with another alt, if so pls provide details. Only an active combatant can stand where you are standing and say the things you are saying with any moral highground.
Secondly... you are not revealing a whole lot about ASCN that isn't already common knowledge. Your thread is actually pretty tame... but there is one thing that is very interesting.
You say ASCN CEO's and corporations including CYVOK have already packed up the family silver and packed it off to empire.. this in time of war is tantamount to treason.
Do you have any proof of this?
Its a semi-interesting thread but without the information I have pointed out, its not very exciting.
|
Sinlare
Gallente
Sinlare Auditorium
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: killerco
Originally by: Lord XSiV
ASCN HC can be reffered to as the evil government with various players
representing the personas of that government's inner circle. Anyone not towing the party line was
'black bagged' and never heard form again. The media was 100% controlled by the government and all
information was 'cleansed' prior to distribution.
What a load of Bull****.
Mods pls lock this thread
So when an ASCN member throws around bs about BoB it's ok, but when it's about ASCN you're the first one to scream for a lock?
Thats hillarious. |
Vrizuh
Eve Defence Force
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:11:00 -
[16]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=445799
Quote:
Alternatively, it would make me wonder if there is some censorship happening due to some bias from ISD members being part of the conflict which might get people confused since it has been indoctrined that all devs/gms are in Bob :)
What was that about ASCN members accusing/blaming other factors every time things don't go their way? Yeh, you're ASCN through and through mate. Any idiot could see why the thread was closed, but you had to accuse the mod of bias.
If EDF did not question its members on their feelings regarding ASCN after a week of demoralising blows then what kind of corp would it be? I imagine it'd be exactly what you're trying to portray it as. Nobody allowed to speak, critiscise or discuss. I see you failed to tell everyone how the poll turned out. Whats that, we are strongly in agreement with the idea of continueing? Quitters we must be.
How can you accuse ASCN of stifling free speech when you have so many 'interesting' threads to quote? How can you critiscise FCs for their pvp performance when a MINER who was ordered to MINE was out there in their gang *****ing about the FCing?
In regards to corps not using all their wallet, maybe they wanted to know how best to spend it first? Maybe they're waiting for cap skills to finish? Did you even ask? Or just assume? The corp leaders could have lied and said they were pouring the big bucks in (btw, how much do all those pos cost to run a day?) but they were honest with us. Yeh, real Draconian there ;)
Only 5 hours left!
I needed more isk, so I took a risk. I mined some ore then fled once more. I'll return to the core to escape the war! |
Drakma
Celestial Fleet
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sinlare
Originally by: killerco
Originally by: Lord XSiV
ASCN HC can be reffered to as the evil government with various players
representing the personas of that government's inner circle. Anyone not towing the party line was
'black bagged' and never heard form again. The media was 100% controlled by the government and all
information was 'cleansed' prior to distribution.
What a load of Bull****.
Mods pls lock this thread
So when an ASCN member throws around bs about BoB it's ok, but when it's about ASCN you're the first one to scream for a lock?
Thats hillarious.
No, what he said was that it's all lies. This Lord guy obviously has no clue how ASCN ran/was run. Maybe he's confusing corp policies with alliance policies I don't know....
|
killerco
Gallente
Confederation of Red Moon
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sinlare
So when an ASCN member throws around bs about BoB it's ok, but when it's about ASCN you're the first one to scream for a lock?
i never said that now did i?
Don't be a great man just be a man |
Weebear
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:16:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Weebear on 17/12/2006 15:16:50
You know it's a useless thread when you have to agree with Nez  |
Kyguard
Fire Mandrill
Astrophobics
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:17:00 -
[20]
You played right into BoB's hands. You're the puppet, not Cyv0k or the rest of ASCN.
Bravo to you for your stupidity and to BoB for once again playing an effective propaganda on their enemy.
It's great being Amarr, aint it?(tm)
Originally by: Raste
Haha, you're the guy used to beg into gatecamps outside Rebilier and then not shoot at anything because you weren't in an NBSI alliance. |
|
|
Robert Dobbs
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:17:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Robert Dobbs on 17/12/2006 15:17:29
XSiV, you write well. But, if I were running ASCN - or EDF - you'd have been kicked months ago. If you have issues with your corp, leave.
I have salvaged some truth from your post..
Originally by: "Lord KSiV"
there will be some whine about it not being fair, hax, cheating, exploiting, etc but that is the ASCN way of covering up for a deficiency; blame others.
This is a CYVOK and McCreedy trait but hopefully it won't hold up for the new leadership..
The answer for ASCN is simple. Keep fighting.
-
---------
*snip* - no profanity allowed in sigs, even if McCreedy said it - Tirg |
killerco
Gallente
Confederation of Red Moon
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kyguard
Bravo to you for your stupidity and to BoB for once again playing an effective propaganda on their enemy.
QFT
Don't be a great man just be a man |
Helen
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: EnglishBob
There's a special circle of Eve-Hell reserved for gutless weasels like you.
QFT.
|
Coasterbrian
Celestial Fleet
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:23:00 -
[24]
I was planning on being all indignant and irritated at this post, but the level of BS is so high that I, quite literally, burst out laughing as I read.
Dude, if you want to trash your (soon to be former) alliance, at least throw a few facts in with the fiction.
----------
I say what I mean, but I don't always mean what I say. |
Lord XSiV
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Edited by: Nez Perces on 17/12/2006 15:15:23
K .. Lord Xsiv welcome to centre stage.
First of all.. what are your credentials?
Who are you?
Do you have a record of combat? perhaps with another alt, if so pls provide details. Only an active combatant in the ASCN vs BoB war can stand where you are standing and say the things you are saying with any moral highground.
Secondly... you are not revealing a whole lot about ASCN that isn't already common knowledge. Your thread is actually pretty tame... but there is one thing that is very interesting.
You say ASCN CEO's and corporations including CYVOK have already gathered the family silver and packed it off to empire.. this in time of war is tantamount to treason.
Do you have any proof of this?
Its a semi-interesting thread but without the information I have pointed out, its not very exciting.
[edit:typo]
Valid questions deserve valid answers....Unfortunately the turnip crew has reared its ugly head....
Credentials - I do stuff. Fun stuff now.
Yes I do have a record for combat. It would be with alts though :( . In fact, if you will peruse the Edf forums you will see I got named most improved pvp'er for the month of August. Not that I consider that a boasting accomplishment, but it is there to answer your question.
The thread was tame as it was intended to illicit a reaction form ASCN. I can blather on for hours and hours but it would have very little impact in comparison to having them post for all to see their own incompetence. As it is, already ther eis a nice listing of posts from ASCN members already - heck some of them forgot to change their tickers and revealed which other alliances they have alts in....
Proof is something that can be disputed as we have seen time and time again on these forums. Photoshopping pics, TS recordings, etc it has all be done. So I ask you this, please define what non-repudiation evidence would be deemed acceptable and I would have to tell you that ther eis no such thing as non-repudiation in this game. Regardless, it doesn't matter, if they don't want to take the info, then so be it, it is their loss.
Sorry to dissapoint (I knew osme would be let down) but I just woke up and still a little bit groggy. You still might get some goodies if John decides to throw down the gauntlet.....
|
Lord XSiV
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vrizuh
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=445799
Quote:
Alternatively, it would make me wonder if there is some censorship happening due to some bias from ISD members being part of the conflict which might get people confused since it has been indoctrined that all devs/gms are in Bob :)
What was that about ASCN members accusing/blaming other factors every time things don't go their way? Yeh, you're ASCN through and through mate. Any idiot could see why the thread was closed, but you had to accuse the mod of bias.
If EDF did not question its members on their feelings regarding ASCN after a week of demoralising blows then what kind of corp would it be? I imagine it'd be exactly what you're trying to portray it as. Nobody allowed to speak, critiscise or discuss. I see you failed to tell everyone how the poll turned out. Whats that, we are strongly in agreement with the idea of continueing? Quitters we must be.
How can you accuse ASCN of stifling free speech when you have so many 'interesting' threads to quote? How can you critiscise FCs for their pvp performance when a MINER who was ordered to MINE was out there in their gang *****ing about the FCing?
In regards to corps not using all their wallet, maybe they wanted to know how best to spend it first? Maybe they're waiting for cap skills to finish? Did you even ask? Or just assume? The corp leaders could have lied and said they were pouring the big bucks in (btw, how much do all those pos cost to run a day?) but they were honest with us. Yeh, real Draconian there ;)
Only 5 hours left!
Vr, you are a good kid and play your heart out. I probably kept my mouth shut for way too long on the festering that was going on in the alliance. Anyhow, when it was obvious nothing was going to be done about it and the status quo maintained, something needed to be said.
|
Hey You
Constructive Influence
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:36:00 -
[27]
Dude, if you don't like corp or alliance - leave it.
before you come to public community forums to spit on your alliance try to do it on private forums. If you aren't listened there - leave.
There is some valid points and facts in your initial post. But there is a bunch of trash as well.
Tbqh if you don't like it - what are you still doing in it? - leave...
It is as simple as that.
To fall in love and fall in debt
To alcohol and cigarettes and Mary Jane
To keep me insane and doing someone else's cocain |
Drake Mezcal
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:36:00 -
[28]
In this guys entire spell of membership, 10months and 9days
He has had 1 loss, an Apoc
This is the same as our killboard and BOBs,
Obvious Alt. ZOMG A BOB ALT!! GGRRRRR!!!
....no really, defo an alt, but could be any1 maybe another attempt from a thrid party to jump on bandwagon and grief us.
|
Lord XSiV
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Malius
Lord Nobody, don't you know you can't get into bob just by sucking thier balls, you actually have to be a good fighter?
Yeah but a Goonie can get into Axe and steal all their pos stuff.
:)
Really, no that isn't the point of this exercise. I do respect bob as a group of players and for how they go about playing the game. As for sucking up to get in there, well that would be an insult to them as well as myself. Yes, proving oneself to be good at all elements of the game and not just a few areas is one of the requirements that is publicly known for bob recruitment. And I doubt foruwm trolling is one of the areas they count....
|
Blind Watchmaker
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.17 15:37:00 -
[30]
Quick Q for the OP. Why don't you give names of who you are quoting when you post quotes? Would make it a lot easier to follow what you are trying to say.
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