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Can D2 really beat BoB???

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Syath Caldari Black Lance	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:09:00 - [91] wait whats going on ... i heard somone talking about Black Lance. WAIT! i'm Black Lance.... well all i gotta say then is...
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:14:00 - [92] Originally by: Syath wait whats going on ... i heard somone talking about Black Lance. WAIT! i'm Black Lance.... well all i gotta say then is... welcome home mah boyz. Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:17:00 - [93] Quote: After winning several archery contests, the young and rather boastful champion challenged a Zen master who was renowned for his skill as an archer. The young man demonstrated remarkable technical proficiency when he hit a distant bull's eye on his first try, and then split that arrow with his second shot. "There," he said to the old man, "see if you can match that!" Undisturbed, the master did not draw his bow, but rather motioned for the young archer to follow him up the mountain. Curious about the old fellow's intentions, the champion followed him high into the mountain until they reached a deep chasm spanned by a rather flimsy and shaky log. Calmly stepping out onto the middle of the unsteady and certainly perilous bridge, the old master picked a far away tree as a target, drew his bow, and fired a clean, direct hit. "Now it is your turn," he said as he gracefully stepped back onto the safe ground. Staring with terror into the seemingly bottomless and beckoning abyss, the young man could not force himself to step out onto the log, no less shoot at a target. "You have much skill with your bow," the master said, sensing his challenger's predicament, "but you have little skill with the mind that lets loose the shot." Despite ASCN's downward spiral, let's not talk about them in the past tense yet. Unfortunately for them, the changes they had to do since the beginning of the war are only being done now. I remember us talking about such necessary changes, but they were dismissed as "propaganda". Now that the predictions have been proven true, no one seems to remember what we've been saying. More unfortunate is that these things always happen, and the negative memes are the ones that stick. Maybe in time people will realize that while we like to grandstand, we don't lie. Anyway, I'm digressing. On the matter of D2 being able to beat BoB, that's for the people in D2 to answer. Personally, I think anyone can beat BoB. If we in BoB let ourselves be fooled by our own success and start thinking we were unbeatable, we would collapse like all the old alliances that we fought in the past. I think one of the important qualities we have is that we know there are always better ways of doing things. That's one of the important ingredients of 3 years of continuous success. If someone does beat BoB in the future, I hope it's because they are truly a better entity. If not, then it would be a loss that the 0.0 people in EVE have not fully considered yet. Something like the collapse of order and a descent into decadence. This is because if BoB is your primary target in EVE, what will you do when BoB is gone? The only way forward is seeking to overcome yourself. So the question therefore is can D2 overcome themselves and in doing so, transcend BoB?
Drakkana Staat Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:20:00 - [94] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Don't mind me just posting in a thread about bob k
Liet Traep Minmatar Black Lance	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:21:00 - [95] D2 already knows that BoB is coming for them. I think BoB DESPERATELY doesn't want D2 to get involvedin he current war. D2 attacking BoB right now could turn the balance of power, especially if D2's traditional allies come along. But when BoB is done with ASCN and BoB consolidates their gains in the south they'll be coming for D2. And with no strong opponents in the south to distract D2 would be in for a tough time. The answer is yes. D2 can beat BoB. But only if they attack now.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:21:00 - [96] I dont think any one alliance can stand against BoB, if BoB comes north we are all **ed, even in the unlikely event we all come together and throw our pods into BoB's fleets without letting up, it's going to be a slaughter, sure we can slow them down, but thats all we can hope to do. Better get ready to change your currency to Imperial Credits lads Oh well, it'll be interesting to say the least. And once that is done, and all power blocks have been absorbed by the Bob blob, they will get bored.. talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Originally by:** Deja Thoris The dead horse has now been flogged into puree.
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:27:00 - [97] i dont think d2 could beat bob by themselves, but i think if d2 were to fight bob, others would be inspired and a multiple attack on bob would break them. i also think if there was a multiple attack youd find a lot ofbob members leaving, and if that happens bob would splinter into its corps eventually. *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
Voltron Caldari Black Lance	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:32:00 - [98] Originally by: slothe i dont think d2 could beat bob by themselves, but i think if d2 were to fight bob, others would be inspired and a multiple attack on bob would break them. i also think if there was a multiple attack youd find a lot ofbob members leaving, and if that happens bob would splinter into its corps eventually. I agree that if D2 were to spring into action (which I doubt very much to be honest) that you would see more "bandwagoners" join in. However i don't think that in that case you would see an outflow of BoB members. They ASK for this sort of thing all the time, literally ask for it. I think they would relish the opportunity to fight what would look like a one sided battle, and jump at the opportunity to try and find a way to win it. I'm no fan of BoB tbh, but that's my take on them and what they would do in such a situation. Volt It's great touching your own dink isn't it?
Nero Winger Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:34:00 - [99] I go with the theory of -YouWhat- is the new true G alliance. looking at the coporations in YouWhat its easy to tell that there are the most of the former G corporation in it and partly the best PvP'ers of former G and todays D2. When YouWhat formed and left D2 the only thing thats left in D2 are cearbears and those former G corporations/people who do not want to recognize they made a mistake in forming up D2 and disbanding G. so i do not give D2 a good chaince of getting a feed dpwn against BoB. The whole north... uncordinated like ASCN fleets... is only sometimes a blobthread to any agressor but not really a PvP thread. -SIG- Personally i do not flame at anybody --- BUT --- If you flame at me, do not expect that i will not return it in the same way....
Svett Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:38:00 - [100] Originally by: Voltron Originally by: slothe i dont think d2 could beat bob by themselves, but i think if d2 were to fight bob, others would be inspired and a multiple attack on bob would break them. i also think if there was a multiple attack youd find a lot ofbob members leaving, and if that happens bob would splinter into its corps eventually. I agree that if D2 were to spring into action (which I doubt very much to be honest) that you would see more "bandwagoners" join in. However i don't think that in that case you would see an outflow of BoB members. They ASK for this sort of thing all the time, literally ask for it. I think they would relish the opportunity to fight what would look like a one sided battle, and jump at the opportunity to try and find a way to win it. I'm no fan of BoB tbh, but that's my take on them and what they would do in such a situation. Volt I don't really see that as a one sided battle, BoB vs D2. Sure D2 has it's pets but the majority of them would crumble under any real threat. The only real fight would be against the core D2 corporations. It would be an endurance test.
hantwo S.A.S	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:43:00 - [101] Originally by: Liet Traep And with no strong opponents in the south to distract D2 would be in for a tough time. The answer is yes. D2 can beat BoB. But only if they attack now. i think you misjudge AAA. when i think of strong alliances i think of Shifu
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:52:00 - [102] The answer is with the crazy numbers d2 or bob could blob with in the system where the other is attacking, no one. Nodes would simply crash before POS went down.
Stamm Amarr Three Holdings Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:34:00 - [103] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio The answer is with the crazy numbers d2 or bob could blob with in the system where the other is attacking, no one. Nodes would simply crash before POS went down. Hmm, haven't they been making some progress towards this? As far as I understood the Dragon code set things back in the short term, but was supposed to put things forward in the long term. But you're right we'd simply see POSs being deployed, and no POSs being taken down.
Voltron Caldari Black Lance	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:36:00 - [104] Originally by: Svett I don't really see that as a one sided battle, BoB vs D2. Sure D2 has it's pets but the majority of them would crumble under any real threat. The only real fight would be against the core D2 corporations. It would be an endurance test. Sorry I meant if D2 were to spring into action now with the current ascn war/celes-er in fountain things going on. Volt It's great touching your own dink isn't it?
DANGEROUS PHANT0MS	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:59:00 - [105] Sadly nearly a year on from the debacle of EC it is my opinion that the shock waves are still fanning out. Ascn are getting what they deserved for the sacrelige they partipated in at that time. Cyvox had the foresight of a hedgehog when he agreed to allow his pilots to make up the numbers for the ec invasion. Shorltly after, when BoB reset standings, he and others of southern beginnings were paniced and tried desperately to get help from ANYONE to help kill the BOB monster!!! - - HAHAH - - now you get to feel the wrath!!. The shame is ASCN have been incapable of standing against BoB EVEN thought they outnumber them massively and EVEN though they have (imo) better general income. I have fought BoB several times, they taught me much of PVP, they killed me and my gangs more often then i returned the favour, but each time was a learning curve and tbh that was before i enrolled in the learning school of a non pirate PHONIX. Things would be different now if i could be bothered to log on. That aside, the OP asks if D2 could stand against BoB....... I have MANY friends left in D2 and yet sadly it is my opinion that if BoB were to come north now that D2 is not the best force to face them. THE BEST FORCE would have been the G of old with the heavies - the IRON of old with the support and some heavies - and Razor as well packing out the battlefield. I have stopped playing in many ways as i feel that although i gave my best efforts and did what i thought was best for iron i was wrong. I was wrong simply as i did not understand fully the GOALS of iron at the time, and one of their goals was not stability finacially. It was having fun!! - the 'fun' NON german way of attacking that Iron gave fleets - matched with the finacial MUSCLE of old G and the heavies to punch and MOST importantly the exceptional FC team that the G/Iron forces could muster SHOULD have been the people to attack BoB. Without a doubt they could have defeated BoB in a head on attack imo. But G/IRON are no longer, its now D2?IRON/RAZOR etc and although i KNOW what it feels like up there - where an aggressor like bob would band ALL of the north against them - i still wonder who would win. I am not privy to the numbers of capital ships and pilots available to D2 and friends - but i hope its ALOT - and most of all i hope that what i believe to be the very weakest Link in D2 proves me wrong. My fear with D2 is that it is run by an accountant/economic corp. The negotiations between Trust and G were never concluded properly which is one of the main reasons that the likes of YouWhat sprang up (imo). The emphasis should have been on the money backing the pvpers all the way. Yet it was my impression that it was the other way around, the pvpers were never properly acknolwedged or listened too. that is why so very many of the good pvpers and FCs have left the game or the alliance, they just cant be bothered with it anymore. The VERY BEST times were G/IRON/FATE/RAZOR days. Looking back it is my opinion that they would have been the strongest people to fight BoB and so many of those bridges have been broken. As evidence of my statement i would like to point out that BoB were SO aware of the threat we posed back then that they got EVERY alliance ingame (almost) to blob us out. SHOCK and AWE. and they sure did that - - THATS what it took to break the back of us before. we were THAT much of a threat to them!! - now - not so much. Personally, i kick back - -eve isnt a 'life' for me anymore - its a game - and i sadly have the taste of being misunderstood by old friends and the sore taste of an unjustified defeat in my mouth by the contining ripples of the ec debacle. Out
MetalZero Minmatar Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:58:00 - [106] Hull Cleaver ...go back to your hole ...alt ___________ ThunderCats
Rei Toai Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:06:00 - [107] Edited by: Rei Toai on 19/12/2006 12:09:36 Originally by: Nero Winger I go with the theory of -YouWhat- is the new true G alliance. looking at the coporations in YouWhat its easy to tell that there are the most of the former G corporation in it and partly the best PvP'ers of former G and todays D2. When YouWhat formed and left D2 the only thing thats left in D2 are cearbears and those former G corporations/people who do not want to recognize they made a mistake in forming up D2 and disbanding G. so i do not give D2 a good chaince of getting a feed dpwn against BoB. The whole north... uncordinated like ASCN fleets... is only sometimes a blobthread to any agressor but not really a PvP thread. uhm .. as far as i remember - only two (STV, FSP) from seven (STV, FSP; CE, ASW, TRIOP, DRDA, Moon7empler) left and formed -Y- ... and only STV can be recognized as a PvP force of the two in ex-G corps in -Y-. D¦ is different from G - that's correct. but to consider this difference as weakness only leads to wrong conclusions. D¦ might not be recognized as a strong force (mainly because D¦ is not that much into forum-warfare like many other entities) - but if they face a capable opponent, they will give them a good fight and also have a really good chance to come out on top. remember - D¦ was facing the longest and dullest POS campaign of ALL of EVE the last summer. i'm not sure if you can describe the current war in the south as a POSwar - you don't have sieges over systems that take weeks (mainly because of ****-ups by ASCN/some discussable 'tactics' by BoB). i estimate XZH was one of the most difficults campaigns for them. not only they were facing a node-breaking opponent in a situation to their disadvantage and though they had some major setbacks during this campaign (some of the operations/attempts to clean the system failed quite spectacular) they still kept up the pressure and kicked the GOONs out of XZH, more or less parallel a quick removal of SPARTA in deklein and after the GOON extravaganza in CR the quite long POSwar against TCF. BoB might appear as the super-stars of EVE (at least on the forum) ... but don't make the mistake to underestimate D¦. They have an economic power far beyond the one of G/IRON, they have more and better diplomatic relations than G/IRON had and they still have the dedication to fight even the most boring conflicts/battles. they have the player-skills, they have the money, they have the motivation to fight (maybe not to aggress, but definetly to defend) P.S.: oh - and don't forget: ganking/small scale PvP and fleetbattles are two different shoes __________________________________ I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to know.
Mindlles 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:07:00 - [108] Edited by: Mindlles on 19/12/2006 12:15:22 Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Selpy Originally by: Hast why dont you let us pick our own targets? Can I help give you guys a push....the north is mighty nice right now, I know me and the Outbreak lad's out LOVE to get a chance at your motherships and that titan :) Not to mention you'd get some good fight's, seem's that the north can rally quite well, I mean, we had 5 alliances showup to kill our small POS in 6nj More like "Here's a chance to attack something of 0utbreaks that can't run away!". Not having a go at you though, clearly you can't hang around until the blob arrives, you're a wee bit outnumbered up here. Yeah that little pos have given us alot off fun, ur blobs are rarley someting we run away from now, is it?. And about the topic, not that i really care, but fought them both. And well d2 would die as fast as ascn. And that is just a opion, fought both parts and that what i think, so no dissrespect =) Thats all =)
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:22:00 - [109] Originally by: Mindlles And about the topic, not that i really care, but fought them both. And well d2 would die as fast as ascn. And that is just a opion, fought both parts and that what i think, so no dissrespect =) Thats all =) In the end on a D2 alliance level nobody cares about Outbreak. If you see D2 KB you know where the PVP wings are operating and thats not in Venal. I think CE made you a visit in the 2 last days but 3 days ago they were in the East, who knows where they will be today. Not being disrespectful, is just my opinion =)
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:54:00 - [110] The realisation is finally setting in is it? Maybe today is the day Eve changes forever, we just don't know it yet. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
NOObbody Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:55:00 - [111] We would have absolutly no (0) chance to win the war... in the forum!
Player One Minmatar Die wilde 13	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:26:00 - [112] as long as it don't get boring and unplayable like the goons in xzh in most stages of the war, i'm sure d2 will be welcome bob with warm guns. shooting bob was always the greatest pleasure for any g pilot and if d2 didnt sell the remaining "Gs modified 1400mm" and still values the G rules and requirements for fleet combat, any attacker will face hard times.
Fuffel Gallente Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:29:00 - [113] Edited by: Fuffel on 19/12/2006 13:30:37 Quote: in the end on a D2 alliance level nobody cares about Outbreak. I do care and thank you all for for this wonderfull topic - feels so good to stand in the spot-light again. - precision is the death of relevance -
Deidranna SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:31:00 - [114] Originally by: Fuffel Edited by: Fuffel on 19/12/2006 13:29:39 Quote: in the end on a D2 alliance level nobody cares about Outbreak. I do care and thank you for all for this wonderfull topic - feels so good to stand in the spot-light again. feel free to post some secret convos with molle GM Eldini > Hi, behaving are we?
Fuffel Gallente Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:33:00 - [115] Originally by: Deidranna Originally by: Fuffel Edited by: Fuffel on 19/12/2006 13:29:39 Quote: in the end on a D2 alliance level nobody cares about Outbreak. I do care and thank you for all for this wonderfull topic - feels so good to stand in the spot-light again. feel free to post some secret convos with molle after it took him like one year to actually understand and execute? no thanks - precision is the death of relevance -
Liet Traep Minmatar Black Lance	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:42:00 - [116] Originally by: hantwo Originally by: Liet Traep And with no strong opponents in the south to distract D2 would be in for a tough time. The answer is yes. D2 can beat BoB. But only if they attack now. i think you misjudge AAA. when i think of strong alliances i think of Shifu No I deliberately didn't mention AAA or LV. AAA is fighting Axe and not in a position to take on BoB full on and LV has them napped. Either alliance could give BoB a good scrap i think.
Earthan Gallente The Amazing Fire Eaters Breidablik	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:59:00 - [117] Originally by: Nero Winger I go with the theory of -YouWhat- is the new true G alliance. looking at the coporations in YouWhat its easy to tell that there are the most of the former G corporation in it and partly the best PvP'ers of former G and todays D2. When YouWhat formed and left D2 the only thing thats left in D2 are cearbears and those former G corporations/people who do not want to recognize they made a mistake in forming up D2 and disbanding G. so i do not give D2 a good chaince of getting a feed dpwn against BoB. The whole north... uncordinated like ASCN fleets... is only sometimes a blobthread to any agressor but not really a PvP thread. Well whne i was in Rise and we foguth against Yuowhat in xzh , Yuowhat would gotten slaughtered if not for Toxins Outbreak coming and alliyng with youwhat.Even with Toxins we gave them much trouble.And even tough i was proud of some things we did in Rise, we werent the most formidable force around... So i wouldnt believe youwhat is G core really... The Amazing Fire Eaters webpage
Bigfood Gallente Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:17:00 - [118] Edited by: Bigfood on 19/12/2006 14:18:35 "get's the white flag out omg we are doomed" thats the sentence what i hear over 2 years now when Mr BoB crushed an larger Alliance We will see what will happen on the fields in the next months on behalf of my opinion about D¦: From dust we came through the Dusk of the beginning, followed by a day of fire and hell we will end in Dawn to be dust again the when, where and how? tbh who cares time will tell PS: Rift whenever you want a rematch on CoH drop me an Eve-Mail
Koko Beware Minmatar Freebooting Profiteers	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:29:00 - [119] This thread is rather interesting, From my experience, D2 call the shots in the North. They can easily raise a 200 man fleet comprising solely of their "minor" allies and residents from Fade/Deklein and thats not even including IRON, RAZOR and Oxide etc. I don't live in the North currently. But when I left in early November, D2 had already started rallying the troops. We were told to expect a BoB attack on Branch within 40 days, which would be followed by a siege of Fade by BoB allies, attempting to capitalise on the situation while D2 had their hands full. We were all required to keep a minimum of 5 pvp ships in the area, fitted and ready for combat at a moments notice. So D2 have been expecting this for a while. However they have been pitching it in terms of being ready to fend off a BoB instigated conflict, not the other way round. Unlike ASCN, BoB are unlikely to catch D2 off-gaurd if they make a move, whether that will make any difference to the outcome is open to debate. Koko Beware Skipper -Freebooting Profiteers- [YOHO]
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:30:00 - [120] Originally by: Rei Toai remember - D¦ was facing the longest and dullest POS campaign of ALL of EVE the last summer. i'm not sure if you can describe the current war in the south as a POSwar - you don't have sieges over systems that take weeks (mainly because of ****-ups by ASCN/some discussable 'tactics' by BoB). The longest pos compaign was in the east and surely one of the longest wars. There are entities that have been at full war for over a year with heavy fighting in their own regions and hostile activity around the clock. D2 has to prove that they can stand a full war with no real rest in their area over a long time. A war that kills your wallets takes every penny you/your corp/your alliance earns over many many months and make carebears' lives miserable, just for the victory that might come or not. It's not only about having the shiniest toys, it's also about stamina and the will to give everything you have for the cause. We'll see, if d2 has it, once they are in that position. I know some entities in the east have/had it, that's why I respect them a lot, no matter how our relation is. And I think that BoB is the most impressive warmachine in EVE. If BoB goes ever down, then I hope in a good war. If just insane masses tried to ring them down in a big carebear offensive of like 10 alliances, then all my best wishes would go to BoB ofc. ------ Who wants to be Caldari, if he could be 1337 instead ? Minnie 4tw ! ^^

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