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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Bernin
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 20:44:44 -
[121] - Quote
so in the end. ccp will give me 350k sp's? since i already trained those. so the boost for the training pool is fair?
:D |
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2015.09.25 22:17:11 -
[122] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hi!
I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that!
Can't tell if Rise is butt-hurt by players doing some of the work or excited that he gets 20 extra minutes to drink some kind of Icelandic adult beverage! I would have liked to see these SP given out in a more NPE kind of way, but I'm sure people appreciate it anyway. /me walks away thinking...300k SP's wouldn't even take a day off the 45 day training time for Capital Ships V We all loves and wants free skillpoints.
300k can definately go a long way.. remember when you created your toon to allocate those 50k?
Wouldn't it be easier (and satisfy the larger player base) to award to 300k to all characters and that same day change the base start? just saying. |
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2015.09.25 22:26:22 -
[123] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Nice one.
It would be nice if you could influence your starting skill pack with some background choices during character creation, but this is still great. That is how it was back when I first started in late 2007. My first character was going to be a miner. I had visions of having a huge mining empire. Then I tried mining and was like...ugghhh no. Back to the character creation process and go combat....later on, I did do another character with an industry focus to help make ISK. BTW, I still have that first character and I know I did not train him for very long and he has around 880,000 SP. So starting SP were significantly higher back then. I think it was even higher than 880k at one point... |
Hemmo Paskiainen
510
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Posted - 2015.09.26 01:12:50 -
[124] - Quote
So.... everyone starts as a Amarr pilot?
"Relativity equals time plus momentum: if it can be erased by a single click on a button, would it be worth spending your time?"
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Aaril
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
12
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Posted - 2015.09.26 01:19:17 -
[125] - Quote
I agree this is a good move by CCP, but...
Instead of giving a 2 week old character 300k SP, you should apply these skills to ALL characters in the game. If a character has already spent the time to train these, THEN apply unallocated SP up to the 300k to all characters. This is the fairest solution to both newbros and bitter vets.
While the 300k would be nice on my main, I have an alt right now that is not very old and is slogging through support skills, and I would love to have these already trained. |
NaK'Lin
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
57
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Posted - 2015.09.26 04:29:46 -
[126] - Quote
Mag's wrote:The only issue I see with this approach, is the giving of skills one may not want. Could you look to making focused skill set choices. I.E. PvP focused, Trader focused, mining focused etc.
This from a perspective of someone who has industry and mining at one, with no intention on ever using them. But no choice as to their inclusion.
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Starbuck05
Warmongering Space Invaders Criminal Intentions.
321
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Posted - 2015.09.26 08:50:03 -
[127] - Quote
Rough estimate in my head .. around a week , maybe abit less of training .
The skills you added are quite good , really makes life easier when making a new char .
Well done +1
Also side question , im gonna assume that if you start with a Caldari toon you will get missle support skills instead of gunnery skills ? cause in that list im seeing only gunnery support skiils while missles got squat ( knowing the toon was amarr race from the list )
Just because i am blond does not make me stoooopid !
Warmongering space Invaders PvP corp looking for pilots ( Low Sec )
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC Bad Intention
4425
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Posted - 2015.09.26 10:34:25 -
[128] - Quote
Apologies if it's been brought up before, but here's my suggestion.
Some of the most important skills a newbie can have out of the box (IMO) should be those that let you fit basic modules. Propulsion jamming is there now which is great, but consider moving some of the Gunnery SP into High Speed Maneuvering. That way from the second they're born, newbies can fit full tackle and an mwd/ afterburner (since HSM requires AB). Their racial e-war should also be unlocked at level one.
Just my 2c. Looks great otherwise.
o7
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
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Ernest Shakleton
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:27:16 -
[129] - Quote
Good idea CCP,
but why not apply this skillpoints to the career one has choosen. In the beginning nobody knows how to allocate the skillpoints correctly. This would give the newbies some idea how to proceed. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
622
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:29:26 -
[130] - Quote
It could help. I, for one think it needs to remain given to fresh characters and not older ones. Hate me for that or don't, but the point is to aid players that are new, not give a 350k point gift to everyone. My two isk.
That said, I'd rather see some more improvements geared towards NPE especially if it's not already planned or in process. After watching one of JonnyPew's vids walking through some NPE struggles, I was shocked to find out that it's got some glaring holes in design that's negatively impacts it's mission: to teach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XREA7cvj6OY
It's actually a really good look at some problem areas regarding particularly the Opportunities System being too vague of the instructions and as he demonstrates, a seasoned player will be able to walk through such a course of instructions fine, but a newer player will likely get held up on the constant lack of direction.
I made a comment about adding glowing or highlighting effects to areas of the UI to point them out more when giving players each step. Especially in events where players are told by Aura to do something, but then never given even a clue as to how to go about doing those things, something like highlighting UI elements would go miles.
I want to point out that this was an idea by another player some time ago and I can't quite remember that player's name, but I remember thinking that would be worth a shot at adding in. It suprises me that it hasn't. I wanted to bring that forward because it's likely that CCP Dev's just didn't see that. Any thoughts, guys? Dev's, is that possible with the current UI and NeoCom? I really think it would be a lot of help for the "day one" players. Maker knows they could use all the help we can give them.
Finally, big shout-outs to JonnyPew for the vids; Awesome stuffs, mang.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
199
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:05:47 -
[131] - Quote
Ernest Shakleton wrote:Good idea CCP,
but why not apply this skillpoints to the career one has choosen. In the beginning nobody knows how to allocate the skillpoints correctly. This would give the newbies some idea how to proceed.
Agreed, most new players already have a good idea before they start what would interest them and they'll train down that path anyway - but they won't know which skills are optimal to get a decent start.
Obviously it can't be done now because it's a lot of work but if they ever come back to this in the future it should be considered. If done right it could be a useful way of drawing new players into the game more and showing them some of the different playstyles in eve. I'd even say get the marketing team or whoever is responsible for the promo videos to make a brief promo video for each sub race showing a little bit about the history of that sub-race tied in with information about what play style they suit, and maybe some game play footage etc. So new players will learn a lot about eve from making that first decision, and it's more engaging than reading text on a wiki or tutorial.
Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war:
The sinews of war; infinite money.
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
1939
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:50:02 -
[132] - Quote
Ernest Shakleton wrote:but why not apply this skillpoints to the career one has choosen. In the beginning nobody knows how to allocate the skillpoints correctly. This would give the newbies some idea how to proceed. How would you do that? I, for one, have run all career agents one after another so that I get a grasp of what's going on in EVE. I doubt that many newbies do not do exactly the same. On the other hand, you could probably ask them after they have completed all the tutorials which path they want to chose in EVE, lay down a basic skill plan curated by experienced players in that field and hand them the free SP.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Quisarious
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
8
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Posted - 2015.09.26 14:23:06 -
[133] - Quote
can we give them cyno III too please ? ) |
Nox Shadow
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.09.26 14:29:37 -
[134] - Quote
So I created this account on the 12th of September, which is apparently 3 days to old to get the free sp? Seems a little harsh, maybe make it for all accounts created in September?
Other then that seems like a good change. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2272
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Posted - 2015.09.26 21:51:36 -
[135] - Quote
Nox Shadow wrote:So I created this account on the 12th of September, which is apparently 3 days to old to get the free sp? Seems a little harsh, maybe make it for all accounts created in September?
Other then that seems like a good change.
But what about the guy who created on august 31 at that point? Any place they draw the line will amke some people think it's bad because they are just a bast it... |
Morgan Agrivar
Happy Endings Massage Parlor
75
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Posted - 2015.09.27 03:12:09 -
[136] - Quote
Wow.
Just wow.
All the bittervets have come out from the cracks and swarmed all over this. They are giving newbros some more skill points so they don't feel useless starting out. It isn't like they are handing out free Nightmares to newbros for subbing.
Some people are just overreacting. I am ok with them getting it and not having 300k sp added for me. Sheesh.
If you are getting worked up over this, please go visit a psychiatrist. You have issues.
"Out of all the people who have tried to kill me, you are my favorite."
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Valarian Dumonte
The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 05:52:33 -
[137] - Quote
Its like raising minimum wage. It really only benefits new bros. Oh well.
If it helps keep new players around then awesome. |
Pic'n dor
Wild Sentinels Honorable Third Party
41
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Posted - 2015.09.27 08:10:56 -
[138] - Quote
Pic'n dor wrote:
Nice move for newbros
But can you remove all those skills that are comon for every characters from the npc market ?
Free plug them to every existing characters and then remove them from NPC. It will lighten the market windows and loading time for everyone.
Thx
Let me insist on that point please.
On the other hand, if we want to keep newbros around, there could be an incentive like 1M Free SP when the account goes subscribed and 1M SP after 6 month (with some retroactiv thingy for the emo rage out there)
COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE
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Anthar Thebess
1310
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Posted - 2015.09.28 13:58:02 -
[139] - Quote
Good idea! New players should start having even more skill points. Can we get all characters <400k sp to have difference gifted to unallocated pool?
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1692
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Posted - 2015.09.28 14:34:28 -
[140] - Quote
Morgan Agrivar wrote:Wow.
Just wow.
All the bittervets have come out from the cracks and swarmed all over this. They are giving newbros some more skill points so they don't feel useless starting out. It isn't like they are handing out free Nightmares to newbros for subbing.
Some people are just overreacting. I am ok with them getting it and not having 300k sp added for me since I just passed 35m sp. Sheesh.
If you are getting worked up over this, please go visit a psychiatrist. You have issues.
I have no problem with it,but do wonder how long it will be before people start 'requesting' that it should be more... |
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
124
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Posted - 2015.09.28 14:45:20 -
[141] - Quote
Just cause the amount of people asking for free SP is too damn high in here.
Only give newly created players the SP buff together with the 2 week players prior to Vanguard.
Do NOT give unallocated SP to the rest of the EvE population. Getting newer players more quickly past some fundamental skills everyone should have, is not the same as having unallocated skill points that you can use for anything.
It can be argued that the players not within the 2 week period, should get the their skills adjusted to the new minimum. But that is not that same as giving all players a free amount of SP.
I honestly hope CCP will show restraint and push the change through as described in the OP, and not try to satisfy what is a clear attempt at some easy free SP points. |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1729
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Posted - 2015.09.28 15:57:17 -
[142] - Quote
It would be the same crying in here, if they have had decided NOT to donate any free unallocated skill points :)
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Nox Shadow
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.09.28 17:10:40 -
[143] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Nox Shadow wrote:So I created this account on the 12th of September, which is apparently 3 days to old to get the free sp? Seems a little harsh, maybe make it for all accounts created in September?
Other then that seems like a good change. But what about the guy who created on august 31 at that point? Any place they draw the line will amke some people think it's bad because they are just a bast it...
Using that methodology no character created before the patch goes live should receive the extra sp. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
120
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Posted - 2015.09.28 17:34:03 -
[144] - Quote
Nox Shadow wrote:Using that methodology no character created before the patch goes live should receive the extra sp. Untrue. There is a real reason for giving SP to players created just before the patch hit. Those players haven't been able to accumulate the SP necessary to match the default start. So by handing out an SP grant to very new characters, they're avoiding the scenario of having a player decide to biomass because a brand new character is better off than they are, SP wise.
Players more than a couple weeks old have enough SP that the new starting default is still well below their current total, meaning: A) They lose SP by restarting. B) If they really wanted the skills being provided by default, they could have trained them already. |
Alexis Nightwish
333
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Posted - 2015.09.28 18:42:13 -
[145] - Quote
While I'm totally for increasing a newbro's starting SP, I think the path you've chosen isn't the best one.
When I first started a decade ago, I was a able to indirectly determine my starting skills by the choices I made during the character creation process. I started heavily combat oriented, just as I wanted to be. I didn't have "wasted" SP in industry or trade or w/e. This was a positive experience as a new player.
You now start every single player out the same, with the same default set of skills, like a prepackaged commodity, forcing their starting SP to be spread out amongst all the areas rather than the ones the player may actually want. This is too much like real life where I have to take classes at the uni that I have no interest in in order to get the degree in what I actually want to do.
Instead I would have implemented a system during character creation that let a player choose the areas they wanted to focus in. If a player was unsure they could still choose to be a generalist.
Mornak wrote:+1
Maybe you could go a tiny little step further and also award an additional 100-300k SP's or so when someone sub's after the trial period... I think this would be a nice little insta-satisfaction for subbing your trial-acc... plus it might be enough to get some ppl to sub that otherwise wouldn't.
But please make them freely allocatable, so that new player can specialize themselves a bit... i think that is very important for the RPG part of this game...
it's not like the difference between 400k and 700k SP's would make much of a difference....
(i dont know if anything like this is already in place, haven't created a new char in ages.... please ignore if there already is such a insta-satisfaction thingy implemented)
Very this.
You could implement it as an opportunity.
Opportunity: Getting your Pilot's License Obtain a Pilot's License EXtension (PLEX) or purchase a subscription to obtain a one-time per account allotment of 300,000 freely allocatable skill points.
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2279
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Posted - 2015.09.28 18:55:15 -
[146] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:While I'm totally for increasing a newbro's starting SP, I think the path you've chosen isn't the best one. When I first started a decade ago, I was a able to indirectly determine my starting skills by the choices I made during the character creation process. I started heavily combat oriented, just as I wanted to be. I didn't have "wasted" SP in industry or trade or w/e. This was a positive experience as a new player. You now start every single player out the same, with the same default set of skills, like a prepackaged commodity, forcing their starting SP to be spread out amongst all the areas rather than the ones the player may actually want. This is too much like real life where I have to take classes at the uni that I have no interest in in order to get the degree in what I actually want to do. Instead I would have implemented a system during character creation that let a player choose the areas they wanted to focus in. If a player was unsure they could still choose to be a generalist. Mornak wrote:+1
Maybe you could go a tiny little step further and also award an additional 100-300k SP's or so when someone sub's after the trial period... I think this would be a nice little insta-satisfaction for subbing your trial-acc... plus it might be enough to get some ppl to sub that otherwise wouldn't.
But please make them freely allocatable, so that new player can specialize themselves a bit... i think that is very important for the RPG part of this game...
it's not like the difference between 400k and 700k SP's would make much of a difference....
(i dont know if anything like this is already in place, haven't created a new char in ages.... please ignore if there already is such a insta-satisfaction thingy implemented)
Very this. You could implement it as an opportunity. Opportunity: Getting your Pilot's License Obtain a Pilot's License EXtension (PLEX) or purchase a subscription to obtain a one-time per account allotment of 300,000 freely allocatable skill points.
This is cool and all untill you realise you would still have to tell newbie, do 4 jump toward system X to buy and inject the book and then stop your skill queu so you can apply your SP to this "mandatory" skill. The currently proposed method is more like "Here, you can try anything you want and make your path from there knowing they can go in pretty much any direction without having to buy/inject any skill for at least the basic steps of nearly every carrer line.
Unallocated SP is much more useful for vets rolling alt than rookie who barely know anything about the game. No need to give any additional slight edge to vets than they already have. |
Morgan Agrivar
Happy Endings Massage Parlor
76
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Posted - 2015.09.29 07:22:22 -
[147] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Morgan Agrivar wrote:Wow.
Just wow.
All the bittervets have come out from the cracks and swarmed all over this. They are giving newbros some more skill points so they don't feel useless starting out. It isn't like they are handing out free Nightmares to newbros for subbing.
Some people are just overreacting. I am ok with them getting it and not having 300k sp added for me since I just passed 35m sp. Sheesh.
If you are getting worked up over this, please go visit a psychiatrist. You have issues. I have no problem with it,but do wonder how long it will be before people start 'requesting' that it should be more...
I am okay with them going to 500k skill points. I don't see any reason to go higher than that. I would take the extra 150k sp and take the missile operation skill to 4 and get the missile support skills to at least level 1, just like what they propose for gunnery. Then take the 75-100k left over and let them distribute it however they wish. I saw where someone said that they could choose from different packs and that would determine what skills they get, whether they want pvp, missioning, mining, hauling/trading, etc.
It could be part of the character creation where they determine what path they want to take, or there could be a generic path for those who do not know what direction they want to go.
Just something about me...
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1497
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Posted - 2015.09.29 08:18:40 -
[148] - Quote
It seems like a decent enough spread although there's more emphasis on armour than shield, I realise those armour skills are also prereqs but it wouldn't hurt to add a few points into shield as well just to make it even/fair. It's the same thing for turrets vs missiles, yes more ships use turrets but that doesn't change the fact that this current allocation "punishes" someone for choosing to use them. Combined it effectively says "don't use shield tanking missile ships".
Then again it's just nuances, percentage point differences, but it does kinda stand out. |
Fishlipz
Jew Beams Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2015.09.29 12:47:13 -
[149] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi! This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k. The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system. IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLSOne note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu. Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback. Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.
Should just give everyone 300k sp for supporting your rapidly dying game. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2281
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Posted - 2015.09.29 13:27:01 -
[150] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:It seems like a decent enough spread although there's more emphasis on armour than shield, I realise those armour skills are also prereqs but it wouldn't hurt to add a few points into shield as well just to make it even/fair. It's the same thing for turrets vs missiles, yes more ships use turrets but that doesn't change the fact that this current allocation "punishes" someone for choosing to use them. Combined it effectively says "don't use shield tanking missile ships".
Then again it's just nuances, percentage point differences, but it does kinda stand out.
From the OP, there is supposed to be slight difference in the starting kit depending on the weapon system. Not sure if this also apply to tank because it's not mentioned in Rise's post... |
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