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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
motie one
Secret Passage
29
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:43:05 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi! This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k. The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system. IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLSOne note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu. Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback. Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.
Excellent start, really good work and will be massively helpful to new players. bravo! Do not be afraid to add more when you have seen just how much this benefits, new player enjoyment and retention.
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:47:41 -
[32] - Quote
Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have. They are. If you've got a 6 month old toon and don't have Mining 3 already trained, it's because you didn't want it. See: Mag's. |
Domanique Altares
Scrap Metal Squadron Point Blank Alliance
3442
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:14:23 -
[33] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Mag's wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.
It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes. What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway? You would really be against free stuff because your skill-sheet does not look "perfect" after?
Yes. I didn't train some things on my main and on alts because I didn't want them. I'm glad newbies are getting a starting bump; leave my years-old characters out of it.
Just because someone wants to drop a load of free **** that I don't need nor want in my living room doesn't mean I should welcome it graciously simply because it's free. |
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance
191
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:22:09 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:...we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. This is fundamentally wrong. The faster they taste all activities... oh hell, who am I kidding? The faster they taste ratting and mining, the faster they say "this is not what I want". No, they will not jump into a frigate and go rocking the lowsec. They just quit. I mean - yes, some will. But 90% or something live in highsec. Newbies are born in hisec. And they do what hisecmen do - mine and run missions. Unless you create some awesome PVE experience (and you dont) higher rate of skilling will mean only higher rate of newbies burnout. The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
1028
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:25:02 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi! This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k. The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system. IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLSOne note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu. Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback. Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there. First off - this is a great idea/change/implementation to help new players get into the parts of the gameplay that CCP's data has shown to actually help convert/retain them.
That said, it might behoove you/CCP to save that imgur album or re-host those from your CDN since a) the person who posted them could delete them thereby decreasing the usefulness of the album or b) someone could alter the image(s) in the album to something unrelated or....ahem..... unwanted/inappropriate (this is EVE after all).
I'm right behind you
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2239
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:25:06 -
[36] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Mag's wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.
It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes. What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway? You would really be against free stuff because your skill-sheet does not look "perfect" after? Yes. I didn't train some things on my main and on alts because I didn't want them. I'm glad newbies are getting a starting bump; leave my years-old characters out of it. Just because someone wants to drop a load of free **** that I don't need nor want in my living room doesn't mean I should welcome it graciously simply because it's free.
I understood that point of view when SP determined your clone grade since free SP you didn't want could make you go to a higher price clone thus having a negative effect on you but now, I really can't see the real issue.
It feels like you passed your driver liscence for big rigs and get given another class for smaller trucks free of change and you want them to remove it because you really only want the big rig class written on the permit. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:30:18 -
[37] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have. Sounds like you're itching to volunteer for the Magic School Bus. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2239
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:30:40 -
[38] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:CCP Rise wrote:...we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. This is fundamentally wrong. The faster they taste all activities... oh hell, who am I kidding? The faster they taste ratting and mining, the faster they say "this is not what I want". No, they will not jump into a frigate and go rocking the lowsec. They just quit. I mean - yes, some will. But 90% or something live in highsec. Newbies are born in hisec. And they do what hisecmen do - mine and run missions. Unless you create some awesome PVE experience (and you dont) higher rate of skilling will mean only higher rate of newbies burnout. The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have.
How do you engage them in the community if they have to play the waiting game for a skill to train every time they want to try something new? How the hell do they discover they want to explode ships in group if they never exploded a ship and probably can't because anything will warp away since they don't even have the skill to fit a disruptor?
"Don't teach kids to run because they might try football and if they don't like it, they might never discover how cool hockey is!!!!" |
Alundil
Isogen 5
1028
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:32:04 -
[39] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:CCP Rise wrote:...we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. This is fundamentally wrong. The faster they taste all activities... oh hell, who am I kidding? The faster they taste ratting and mining, the faster they say "this is not what I want". No, they will not jump into a frigate and go rocking the lowsec. They just quit. I mean - yes, some will. But 90% or something live in highsec. Newbies are born in hisec. And they do what hisecmen do - mine and run missions. Unless you create some awesome PVE experience (and you dont) higher rate of skilling will mean only higher rate of newbies burnout. The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have. The other side of the issue (simultaneously with attaching/integrating them into the community) is the very real problem of "Welcome to EVE, we hope you enjoy your time here, please wait a few hours/days before you can begin to get an idea of what you might want to do" or the other very real occurrence of new player joins a corp (what we all want) and is promptly given a skill training plan to be able to join their corpmates which also equates to "in a few days you'll be ready, until then....um....we're not sure come haul * (ore, ammo, salvage) or fly into that hostile fleet and die. Isn't that fun?"
We all know what EVE is. It's a time consuming game. We've all gotten there, gotten through it. We all look back on it and say "Wouldn't want to do that again", or "I really miss being able to fly x" but the reality is we're asking/forcing new players to go through the very same pain for a game they aren't even invested in yet. And, shockingly (to no one) new player retention numbers are, how should I say this, not good. This has a chance to turn that around a little by helping them get into the game parts of the game instead of telling them to hurry up and wait (and htfu while they're at it).
I'm right behind you
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Mr Grape Drink
Sugar - Water - Purple Winmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:35:36 -
[40] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Obligatory "SLAP IN THE FACE OF YOUR VETS" post before anyone post it unironically.
Except all real bitter vets started with alot more than that. What was it? Like 800k? Which was nice while you spent the next several weeks training learning skills! ;D |
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Dersen Lowery
Scanners Live in Vain
1759
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:37:26 -
[41] - Quote
+1 to this. This sort of thing is exactly what I was hoping for. New players want to try things and see what they can do. With this, they can do a lot of things immediately--if badly, but that's OK. They can even overheat modules!
This should make the new player experience in EVE significantly less frustrating.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Darkblad
Hilf Dir selbst in EVE
2303
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:46:29 -
[42] - Quote
Many of the skills are currently rewarded by the career agent's Missions. Will that change?
My guess would be yes, as this is in line with your initial plans for a move away from reward driven NPE.
EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions
(EN & DE)
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Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance
191
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:57:44 -
[43] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:How do you engage them in the community if they have to play the waiting game for a skill to train every time they want to try something new? By reading, watching videos, reading some more and even more, chatting to ppl in channels and talking on comms. Lots of veteran players do play waiting game (for other reasons, like bad sov mechanics, nerfed titans etc), they dont log in EVE, they may even log in other games - but they keep connection with EVE. Newbies will not have time to read about Band of Brothers, t20, have no time to watch RnK films, kil2 roams, they will not find a wonderful toy of EFT and photo of Chribba's tattoo. They will be busy grinding standing to get to lvl4's, to mine minerals for the drake - because that's what would be the obstacle to get to ~endgame~. |
Marox Calendale
Human League
57
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Posted - 2015.09.24 17:06:55 -
[44] - Quote
+1 it-¦s a great improvement for newbros, but i think it could be still a Little bit more.
For Amarr Players as Example:
in Spaceship command add also Amarr Destroyer, Amarr Cruiser, Amarr Battlecruiser and Amarr Battleship all at lvl 1 to it. You can-¦t train them higher until the previous skills are at least at lvl 3, but you would be able to use bigger ships. We all know how important frigates and destroyers can be, but newbros normally just want to fly Big Ships. |
Angelic Tallbrooke
Primary Is Input Broadcasted
8
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Posted - 2015.09.24 17:15:50 -
[45] - Quote
It would actually be really nice for any existing players to have their skills bumped up to those "minimum" levels. As someone who's played for under 10 months, I may have missed vital skills off the bat. Gotta' get those awesome mining skills, you know? Seriously, though, a kickback for players who don't have those skills trained already would be really nice. It doesn't matter too much to those with over 50 mil skill points, but for those of us who're already skill-point-gimped from the attribute system/implant system (risk/reward tradeoffs of having fun versus getting skill points), it would be a godsend to throw either SP or those skills our way.
That, and I have an under-2-mil-sp alt that literally has none of the support skills trained, it's just a "move my stuff about for me" alt (but not even a hauler). Honestly, I'd be better off biomassing a month-plexed character and making a new one after this patch hits if that's a thing, just for ease of getting all the skills injected. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3151
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:25:30 -
[46] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:instead of free sp for every one created up to the release why not just credit everyone these skills no matter there age if they don't already have them. This way there no free sp being given most won't even gain anything but it sets everyone on the same foot.
I agree with this, much better than unallocated SP.
Oh an I just realized. Welcome back to the forums CCP Rise we have missed you!
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Harkin Issier
Aliastra Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2015.09.24 17:31:47 -
[47] - Quote
CCP definitely boost everyone's skill levels up to the new set if they haven't already trained it.
Unallocated SP is too powerful, and giving our younger newbros a general skillset won't be too much of a buff to alts. |
Catherine Laartii
Perkone Caldari State
603
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:35:48 -
[48] - Quote
This is seriously amazing, thank you so much. I can say I'll definitely be setting up my 3rd character slot after this. |
Mstk Miura
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:38:59 -
[49] - Quote
My character is 3 weeks old now, does this mean that im no longer a new player? |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
507
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:45:18 -
[50] - Quote
Angelic Tallbrooke wrote:It would actually be really nice for any existing players to have their skills bumped up to those "minimum" levels. As someone who's played for under 10 months, I may have missed vital skills off the bat. Gotta' get those awesome mining skills, you know? Seriously, though, a kickback for players who don't have those skills trained already would be really nice. It doesn't matter too much to those with over 50 mil skill points, but for those of us who're already skill-point-gimped from the attribute system/implant system (risk/reward tradeoffs of having fun versus getting skill points), it would be a godsend to throw either SP or those skills our way.
That, and I have an under-2-mil-sp alt that literally has none of the support skills trained, it's just a "move my stuff about for me" alt (but not even a hauler). Honestly, I'd be better off biomassing a month-plexed character and making a new one after this patch hits if that's a thing, just for ease of getting all the skills injected.
+1 on giving those skills to all toons that don't already have them if it can be done. |
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1743
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:49:09 -
[51] - Quote
Good change. Now just please remove attribute implants.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Nou Mene
Out of Focus Odin's Call
11
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:01:17 -
[52] - Quote
Great change!
Is it possible to tie some of this SP to tutorial missions? as a way to avoid older player abuse? And maybe this could help giving even more SP to players really involved into tutorials.
Keep the good work. Greetings |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
513
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:34:41 -
[53] - Quote
Excellent step in the right direction, though I do feel there is some merit in Mag's request for some choosing of a profession to start. A guy who wants to play Eve and mine is probably not gonna want 1/8th of his SP in gunnery when it would better suit him in shields by far. Choice and the resulting consequences that follow are also important.
The Law is a point of View
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TheMercenaryKing
Ultimatum. The Bastion
371
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:48:04 -
[54] - Quote
Not a bad change I guess. I mean, it does kind of suck for some of us vets who had to learn all of this stuff and plan accordingly - AFTER LEARNING SKILLS!
I mean, 300k exp is.....i think 2015 sp/hour is a good average (forgetting actual numbers) 350,000/2000 is like 175 hours, a week of training? Most of my skills are like week long or above to train so i am not missing anything really.
Some people say just give unallocated SP. New players don't know **** and that SP boost for an alt account is total BS.
I think taking it back even farther and make the bloodlines matter again would be cool too. Give bloodlines different starting skills - Indy focused, combat focused, trading focused. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
1934
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:55:38 -
[55] - Quote
Marox Calendale wrote:+1 it-¦s a great improvement for newbros, but i think it could be still a Little bit more.
For Amarr Players as Example:
in Spaceship command add also Amarr Destroyer, Amarr Cruiser, Amarr Battlecruiser and Amarr Battleship all at lvl 1 to it. You can-¦t train them higher until the previous skills are at least at lvl 3, but you would be able to use bigger ships. We all know how important frigates and destroyers can be, but newbros normally just want to fly Big Ships. That's not a good way of handling things. This not only sets an unnecessary precedent for skill training and skill injection incoherence (As if Command Ships without warfare skills trained wasn't nice enough already), it would also remove necessary money sinks from the game.
Frigs are more than enough for new players to toy around with and experience many activities of the game. What they want is not really of any concern as they cannot afford any of these ships or equip these ships to begin with. If they want to fly big toys, they train for them. Period.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Faby Rasputin
XoXCorp
7
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:47:26 -
[56] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi! This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k. The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system. IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLSOne note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu. Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback. Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.
Can I ask why you don't simply apply those skills to ALL current characters, and then give everyone the difference in skills they already have as unallocated SP? |
Greygal
Redemption Road Affirmative.
485
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:52:44 -
[57] - Quote
Outstanding change, and most excellent choice of starting skills to add! I particularly like that you including Salvaging. My only suggestion would be Evasive Maneuvering at 3
This change also makes it simpler for us to theorycraft Day 1 new player fits!
What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.
Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!
Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2244
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:53:46 -
[58] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Excellent step in the right direction, though I do feel there is some merit in Mag's request for some choosing of a profession to start. A guy who wants to play Eve and mine is probably not gonna want 1/8th of his SP in gunnery when it would better suit him in shields by far. Choice and the resulting consequences that follow are also important.
Except the newbie are likely to have next to no idea what they want can could choose wrong. Choose exploration because it sounds cool and all. Tuns out it's not what the guy though and want something different? Oh well, go afk for some time while your basic skill requirement to do the next thing you want to try train. I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure that is exactly what CCP want to avoid. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group
159
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:13:06 -
[59] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Excellent step in the right direction, though I do feel there is some merit in Mag's request for some choosing of a profession to start. A guy who wants to play Eve and mine is probably not gonna want 1/8th of his SP in gunnery when it would better suit him in shields by far. Choice and the resulting consequences that follow are also important. Except the newbie are likely to have next to no idea what they want can could choose wrong. Choose exploration because it sounds cool and all. Tuns out it's not what the guy though and want something different? Oh well, go afk for some time while your basic skill requirement to do the next thing you want to try train. I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure that is exactly what CCP want to avoid.
So, just give him combat skills, because you know, what sandbox? |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2641
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:30:21 -
[60] - Quote
I agree with some of the others here and I think it would be better to, instead of handing the skill points out, give them as reward for completing parts of the tutorial--and not as free SP to allocate but simply bumping up skills that aren't already at that level yet.
One interesting thing could be region-based SP: you complete a certain combat tutorial mission while in Minmatar space and it bumps your gunnery skill to 4 and your small projectile turret skill to 3. You go complete the same mission in Amarr space and now it bumps your small energy turret skill to 3.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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