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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
5290
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:34:30 -
[1] - Quote
Hi!
This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k.
The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box.
I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system.
IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLS
One note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu.
Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback.
Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.
@ccp_rise
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1502
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:41:30 -
[2] - Quote
This is a MUCH appreciated change. Having those skills already plugged in will be a great simplification for new players. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3149
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:43:49 -
[3] - Quote
It looks like newbros will still need to buy and train there racial ewar skills up? It does look like everything else is there but that.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2239
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Obligatory "SLAP IN THE FACE OF YOUR VETS" post before anyone post it unironically. |
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor
121
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:53:05 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi!
I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that!
Can't tell if Rise is butt-hurt by players doing some of the work or excited that he gets 20 extra minutes to drink some kind of Icelandic adult beverage!
I would have liked to see these SP given out in a more NPE kind of way, but I'm sure people appreciate it anyway.
/me walks away thinking...300k SP's wouldn't even take a day off the 45 day training time for Capital Ships V
Cedric
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Edward Olmops
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
313
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:53:11 -
[6] - Quote
How would you think about a one-time SP boost for new characters once they accomplish something? Say, 50k unallocated SP for completing a meta opportunity "Take opportunities: fully complete one/two/three other opportunities"
So there is - an incentive to do something with opportunities (learn actively), but it's not restricted to a specific area (you are not forced to learn combat or learn EVERYTHING to max out bonusses if you dont want to). - new players would quickly be able to customize their character AFTER they learned at least a little bit about the game (so hopefully they don't waste the one-time bonus) |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2239
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:57:04 -
[7] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:How would you think about a one-time SP boost for new characters once they accomplish something? Say, 50k unallocated SP for completing a meta opportunity "Take opportunities: fully complete one/two/three other opportunities"
So there is - an incentive to do something with opportunities (learn actively), but it's not restricted to a specific area (you are not forced to learn combat or learn EVERYTHING to max out bonusses if you dont want to). - new players would quickly be able to customize their character AFTER they learned at least a little bit about the game (so hopefully they don't waste the one-time bonus)
Because then it's only a real boost to alts while this is a boost to newbie being able to try anything from second 1 of their gameplay. Newbie would likely throw their un-allocated SP gift in place that does not open new options for them to discover while this flat allocation make them able to do close to anything. |
Mag's
the united
20248
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:59:10 -
[8] - Quote
The only issue I see with this approach, is the giving of skills one may not want. Could you look to making focused skill set choices. I.E. PvP focused, Trader focused, mining focused etc.
This from a perspective of someone who has industry and mining at one, with no intention on ever using them. But no choice as to their inclusion.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:00:03 -
[9] - Quote
Like this very mutch. It will help new players to get a little better start. Its not so funny to buy 30 skillbooks at the first 3 days because everything that you want to try out is not learned yet.
Do chars that were created in the last week(s) get some kind of free skillpoints (maybe fading out the older the char is) to compensate ?
I could create a new char now and one new week and the one next week would be better then the char now. My buddy who startet last weekend will probably shoot himself if he hears this
Just saying. |
Unreal Blight
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
28
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Posted - 2015.09.24 14:01:51 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLS ty Rise ilu too bb :3
I actually would like to ask if we could get a list of the skills by race if possible, still. The small differences in support skills can make a difference for those of us who create skill plans for newbies. |
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2239
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:01:58 -
[11] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:Like this very mutch. It will help new players to get a little better start. Its not so funny to buy 30 skillbooks at the first 3 days because everything that you want to try out is not learned yet. Do chars that were created in the last week(s) get some kind of free skillpoints (maybe fading out the older the char is) to compensate ? I could create a new char now and one new week and the one next week would be better then the char now. My buddy who startet last weekend will probably shoot himself if he hears this Just saying.
CCP Rise wrote:
One note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu.
Did you even read the post? |
Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:06:24 -
[12] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Captain Awkward wrote:Like this very mutch. It will help new players to get a little better start. Its not so funny to buy 30 skillbooks at the first 3 days because everything that you want to try out is not learned yet. Do chars that were created in the last week(s) get some kind of free skillpoints (maybe fading out the older the char is) to compensate ? I could create a new char now and one new week and the one next week would be better then the char now. My buddy who startet last weekend will probably shoot himself if he hears this Just saying. CCP Rise wrote:
One note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu.
Did you even read the post?
Stopped at the link with the colofull picktures and got lost.
Never mind. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:15:49 -
[13] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:I would have liked to see these SP given out in a more NPE kind of way, but I'm sure people appreciate it anyway. There's likely a lot of bittervets who will express how much they dislike it.
But this is exactly how the change in starting SP has to be handled. Sure, I'm going to enjoy some free unallocated SP and I'm certain a lot of others are already planning how to spend it. Newbies don't have that. They don't understand the where, why and what they need so any guaranteed SP is best given already assigned.
As for my thoughts the skills themselves*
- Interesting that PG and CPU fitting skills are given at 4. Apparently CCP aren't fans of fitting skills either.
- Mechanic and Hull Upgrades and Repair Systems are at 3, but all the shield skills are is at 1. The 2 & 3 train isn't bad, but that's a bit odd from a tanking module standpoint.
- Lots of gunnery at 1/2. Saves on skillbook costs mostly, but they're all there by default now.
- Mining, Survey and Salvaging at 3. Nice, exploration and salvage are reasonable moneymakers for fresh faces.
- Thermodynamics at 1 by default. Not going to make them PvP gods, but Thermo's one of those "at least have 1" skills, so this is nice.
- Drones skills: I wonder if these are different for Gallente? Either way, until Drone Interfacing means that anything less than Drones V is wasted potential.
Other than that, a lot of good pre-reqs at one. Looking at the list I think 99% of fits are covered, so at least we have newbies able to get into whatever fit type they're looking at right from minute 1.
*As always, I'm in favor of simply removing SP entirely. |
Matt Faithbringer
Rapid Withdrawal
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:18:54 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: One note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu.
Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback.
IMO you should just give the 300K SP to all characters.. me wanna some free SPs...
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Mornak
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
51
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:36:37 -
[15] - Quote
+1
Maybe you could go a tiny little step further and also award an additional 100-300k SP's or so when someone sub's after the trial period... I think this would be a nice little insta-satisfaction for subbing your trial-acc... plus it might be enough to get some ppl to sub that otherwise wouldn't.
But please make them freely allocatable, so that new player can specialize themselves a bit... i think that is very important for the RPG part of this game...
it's not like the difference between 400k and 700k SP's would make much of a difference....
(i dont know if anything like this is already in place, haven't created a new char in ages.... please ignore if there already is such a insta-satisfaction thingy implemented)
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
208
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:39:34 -
[16] - Quote
instead of free sp for every one created up to the release why not just credit everyone these skills no matter there age if they don't already have them. This way there no free sp being given most won't even gain anything but it sets everyone on the same foot.
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:40:31 -
[17] - Quote
Matt Faithbringer wrote:CCP Rise wrote:300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. IMO you should just give the 300K SP to all characters.. me wanna some free SPs... I missed the restriction on the new SP I guess. Unfortunate, but I imagine all they were really looking to do was to make sure no characters were left under the new 400k minimum, not to simply boost everybody.
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
507
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:45:11 -
[18] - Quote
Great change! Newbros around the verse rejoice!
Quick question though I may just not be looking at it right: Why not add the secondary missile skills like you have for gunnery?
- Than |
Barubary Evans
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:47:07 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: One note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release.
I really, really hate looking a gifthorse in the mouth, but is there no way that CCP can go through and update the skills so that every char with less than the new starting skills gets them updated to the starting skill level? The new skills are a bit over a week of training (on the default remap, without implants). That isn't a small amount of time considering EVE has a monthly cost to the game. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1502
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:49:39 -
[20] - Quote
I too like the idea of granting additional SP after subscribing for the first time. It's not pay-to-win by any means as most stuff is already covered by "cannot be trained on trial accounts".
I'd also like to see a better initial attributes mapping. Splitting all the AP between intelligence and perception for example, or, better yet, just killing the attributes and implants system entirely. I've had the conversation 4 times this week about remapping, and how the most efficient way of gaining skillpoints is the least fun. |
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Valkin Mordirc
1508
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:50:10 -
[21] - Quote
WOO!
Good change Rise/Fozzie/Team-5-0 (Five Oh? 5-oh?) And CCP.
<3 <3 <3
#DeleteTheWeak
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Aladar Dangerface
13. Enigma Project
247
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:57:01 -
[22] - Quote
I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.
It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes.
Edit: This is a really good change and will hopefully help the newbros out more.
I don't need twitter.
I'm already following you.
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Mag's
the united
20248
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:04:42 -
[23] - Quote
Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.
It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes. What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway?
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2239
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:15:11 -
[24] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.
It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes. What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway?
You would really be against free stuff because your skill-sheet does not look "perfect" after? |
Aladar Dangerface
13. Enigma Project
247
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:15:49 -
[25] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.
It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes. What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway? Yes
I don't need twitter.
I'm already following you.
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Neph
Operation Meatshield Plexodus
130
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:21:28 -
[26] - Quote
Ouch. I'll fall outside the two-week period: I've got probablly 1.7m SP and that extra 350k would be really nice.
Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
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Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
277
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:22:08 -
[27] - Quote
This looks like a really well rounded set of starting skills and I love that you included thermodynamics. This will go a long way towards improving the skill training NPE, so many new players I talk to hate that they need an hour for THIS essential module, two hours for THAT module and a day for ANOTHER module right after they started. Really basic stuff like power cores, MWDs, shield extenders.
The skill training system still needs more attention, the removal of attributes or at least of remaps would be very welcome, but making day one players not feel like dead weight is a great start.
Also please ignore all vet whining about not getting free SP. Vets have enough advantages in EVE. |
Mag's
the united
20249
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:25:05 -
[28] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Mag's wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.
It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes. What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway? You would really be against free stuff because your skill-sheet does not look "perfect" after? I'm against not having the choice. So yes, I'm against free stuff in this regard.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Mag's
the united
20249
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:26:20 -
[29] - Quote
Aladar Dangerface wrote:Mag's wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.
It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes. What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway? Yes Good to know.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Barubary Evans
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:31:28 -
[30] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Also please ignore all vet whining about not getting free SP. Vets have enough advantages in EVE. I'm not a vet. I'm going to lose 9 day if I remake my third character because I had to take the summer off, or I'm going to lose 16 days if I don't remake my third character. http://puu.sh/kmxoN/fa87aea0e4.jpg
I don't want to have to remake my third character because I've already put time and effort into him even if I haven't had time to train him yet (connecting to people and stuff like that), so I'm probably not going to delete him. But that means I lose out on 16 days of training across the three characters that every other starting character will get.
I'm really glad that new players will be starting with more SP, but it really blows that it isn't going to be upped for everyone. |
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motie one
Secret Passage
29
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:43:05 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi! This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k. The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system. IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLSOne note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu. Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback. Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.
Excellent start, really good work and will be massively helpful to new players. bravo! Do not be afraid to add more when you have seen just how much this benefits, new player enjoyment and retention.
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:47:41 -
[32] - Quote
Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have. They are. If you've got a 6 month old toon and don't have Mining 3 already trained, it's because you didn't want it. See: Mag's. |
Domanique Altares
Scrap Metal Squadron Point Blank Alliance
3442
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:14:23 -
[33] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Mag's wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.
It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes. What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway? You would really be against free stuff because your skill-sheet does not look "perfect" after?
Yes. I didn't train some things on my main and on alts because I didn't want them. I'm glad newbies are getting a starting bump; leave my years-old characters out of it.
Just because someone wants to drop a load of free **** that I don't need nor want in my living room doesn't mean I should welcome it graciously simply because it's free. |
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance
191
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:22:09 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:...we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. This is fundamentally wrong. The faster they taste all activities... oh hell, who am I kidding? The faster they taste ratting and mining, the faster they say "this is not what I want". No, they will not jump into a frigate and go rocking the lowsec. They just quit. I mean - yes, some will. But 90% or something live in highsec. Newbies are born in hisec. And they do what hisecmen do - mine and run missions. Unless you create some awesome PVE experience (and you dont) higher rate of skilling will mean only higher rate of newbies burnout. The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
1028
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:25:02 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi! This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k. The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system. IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLSOne note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu. Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback. Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there. First off - this is a great idea/change/implementation to help new players get into the parts of the gameplay that CCP's data has shown to actually help convert/retain them.
That said, it might behoove you/CCP to save that imgur album or re-host those from your CDN since a) the person who posted them could delete them thereby decreasing the usefulness of the album or b) someone could alter the image(s) in the album to something unrelated or....ahem..... unwanted/inappropriate (this is EVE after all).
I'm right behind you
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2239
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:25:06 -
[36] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Mag's wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.
It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes. What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway? You would really be against free stuff because your skill-sheet does not look "perfect" after? Yes. I didn't train some things on my main and on alts because I didn't want them. I'm glad newbies are getting a starting bump; leave my years-old characters out of it. Just because someone wants to drop a load of free **** that I don't need nor want in my living room doesn't mean I should welcome it graciously simply because it's free.
I understood that point of view when SP determined your clone grade since free SP you didn't want could make you go to a higher price clone thus having a negative effect on you but now, I really can't see the real issue.
It feels like you passed your driver liscence for big rigs and get given another class for smaller trucks free of change and you want them to remove it because you really only want the big rig class written on the permit. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:30:18 -
[37] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have. Sounds like you're itching to volunteer for the Magic School Bus. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2239
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:30:40 -
[38] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:CCP Rise wrote:...we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. This is fundamentally wrong. The faster they taste all activities... oh hell, who am I kidding? The faster they taste ratting and mining, the faster they say "this is not what I want". No, they will not jump into a frigate and go rocking the lowsec. They just quit. I mean - yes, some will. But 90% or something live in highsec. Newbies are born in hisec. And they do what hisecmen do - mine and run missions. Unless you create some awesome PVE experience (and you dont) higher rate of skilling will mean only higher rate of newbies burnout. The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have.
How do you engage them in the community if they have to play the waiting game for a skill to train every time they want to try something new? How the hell do they discover they want to explode ships in group if they never exploded a ship and probably can't because anything will warp away since they don't even have the skill to fit a disruptor?
"Don't teach kids to run because they might try football and if they don't like it, they might never discover how cool hockey is!!!!" |
Alundil
Isogen 5
1028
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:32:04 -
[39] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:CCP Rise wrote:...we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. This is fundamentally wrong. The faster they taste all activities... oh hell, who am I kidding? The faster they taste ratting and mining, the faster they say "this is not what I want". No, they will not jump into a frigate and go rocking the lowsec. They just quit. I mean - yes, some will. But 90% or something live in highsec. Newbies are born in hisec. And they do what hisecmen do - mine and run missions. Unless you create some awesome PVE experience (and you dont) higher rate of skilling will mean only higher rate of newbies burnout. The key to get active engaged players is to incorporate them into the community. This takes time. The more time you buy with that skill queue - the more chance they have. The other side of the issue (simultaneously with attaching/integrating them into the community) is the very real problem of "Welcome to EVE, we hope you enjoy your time here, please wait a few hours/days before you can begin to get an idea of what you might want to do" or the other very real occurrence of new player joins a corp (what we all want) and is promptly given a skill training plan to be able to join their corpmates which also equates to "in a few days you'll be ready, until then....um....we're not sure come haul * (ore, ammo, salvage) or fly into that hostile fleet and die. Isn't that fun?"
We all know what EVE is. It's a time consuming game. We've all gotten there, gotten through it. We all look back on it and say "Wouldn't want to do that again", or "I really miss being able to fly x" but the reality is we're asking/forcing new players to go through the very same pain for a game they aren't even invested in yet. And, shockingly (to no one) new player retention numbers are, how should I say this, not good. This has a chance to turn that around a little by helping them get into the game parts of the game instead of telling them to hurry up and wait (and htfu while they're at it).
I'm right behind you
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Mr Grape Drink
Sugar - Water - Purple Winmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:35:36 -
[40] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Obligatory "SLAP IN THE FACE OF YOUR VETS" post before anyone post it unironically.
Except all real bitter vets started with alot more than that. What was it? Like 800k? Which was nice while you spent the next several weeks training learning skills! ;D |
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Dersen Lowery
Scanners Live in Vain
1759
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:37:26 -
[41] - Quote
+1 to this. This sort of thing is exactly what I was hoping for. New players want to try things and see what they can do. With this, they can do a lot of things immediately--if badly, but that's OK. They can even overheat modules!
This should make the new player experience in EVE significantly less frustrating.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Darkblad
Hilf Dir selbst in EVE
2303
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:46:29 -
[42] - Quote
Many of the skills are currently rewarded by the career agent's Missions. Will that change?
My guess would be yes, as this is in line with your initial plans for a move away from reward driven NPE.
EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions
(EN & DE)
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Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance
191
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:57:44 -
[43] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:How do you engage them in the community if they have to play the waiting game for a skill to train every time they want to try something new? By reading, watching videos, reading some more and even more, chatting to ppl in channels and talking on comms. Lots of veteran players do play waiting game (for other reasons, like bad sov mechanics, nerfed titans etc), they dont log in EVE, they may even log in other games - but they keep connection with EVE. Newbies will not have time to read about Band of Brothers, t20, have no time to watch RnK films, kil2 roams, they will not find a wonderful toy of EFT and photo of Chribba's tattoo. They will be busy grinding standing to get to lvl4's, to mine minerals for the drake - because that's what would be the obstacle to get to ~endgame~. |
Marox Calendale
Human League
57
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:06:55 -
[44] - Quote
+1 it-¦s a great improvement for newbros, but i think it could be still a Little bit more.
For Amarr Players as Example:
in Spaceship command add also Amarr Destroyer, Amarr Cruiser, Amarr Battlecruiser and Amarr Battleship all at lvl 1 to it. You can-¦t train them higher until the previous skills are at least at lvl 3, but you would be able to use bigger ships. We all know how important frigates and destroyers can be, but newbros normally just want to fly Big Ships. |
Angelic Tallbrooke
Primary Is Input Broadcasted
8
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:15:50 -
[45] - Quote
It would actually be really nice for any existing players to have their skills bumped up to those "minimum" levels. As someone who's played for under 10 months, I may have missed vital skills off the bat. Gotta' get those awesome mining skills, you know? Seriously, though, a kickback for players who don't have those skills trained already would be really nice. It doesn't matter too much to those with over 50 mil skill points, but for those of us who're already skill-point-gimped from the attribute system/implant system (risk/reward tradeoffs of having fun versus getting skill points), it would be a godsend to throw either SP or those skills our way.
That, and I have an under-2-mil-sp alt that literally has none of the support skills trained, it's just a "move my stuff about for me" alt (but not even a hauler). Honestly, I'd be better off biomassing a month-plexed character and making a new one after this patch hits if that's a thing, just for ease of getting all the skills injected. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3151
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:25:30 -
[46] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:instead of free sp for every one created up to the release why not just credit everyone these skills no matter there age if they don't already have them. This way there no free sp being given most won't even gain anything but it sets everyone on the same foot.
I agree with this, much better than unallocated SP.
Oh an I just realized. Welcome back to the forums CCP Rise we have missed you!
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Harkin Issier
Aliastra Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:31:47 -
[47] - Quote
CCP definitely boost everyone's skill levels up to the new set if they haven't already trained it.
Unallocated SP is too powerful, and giving our younger newbros a general skillset won't be too much of a buff to alts. |
Catherine Laartii
Perkone Caldari State
603
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:35:48 -
[48] - Quote
This is seriously amazing, thank you so much. I can say I'll definitely be setting up my 3rd character slot after this. |
Mstk Miura
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:38:59 -
[49] - Quote
My character is 3 weeks old now, does this mean that im no longer a new player? |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
507
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:45:18 -
[50] - Quote
Angelic Tallbrooke wrote:It would actually be really nice for any existing players to have their skills bumped up to those "minimum" levels. As someone who's played for under 10 months, I may have missed vital skills off the bat. Gotta' get those awesome mining skills, you know? Seriously, though, a kickback for players who don't have those skills trained already would be really nice. It doesn't matter too much to those with over 50 mil skill points, but for those of us who're already skill-point-gimped from the attribute system/implant system (risk/reward tradeoffs of having fun versus getting skill points), it would be a godsend to throw either SP or those skills our way.
That, and I have an under-2-mil-sp alt that literally has none of the support skills trained, it's just a "move my stuff about for me" alt (but not even a hauler). Honestly, I'd be better off biomassing a month-plexed character and making a new one after this patch hits if that's a thing, just for ease of getting all the skills injected.
+1 on giving those skills to all toons that don't already have them if it can be done. |
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1743
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:49:09 -
[51] - Quote
Good change. Now just please remove attribute implants.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Nou Mene
Out of Focus Odin's Call
11
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:01:17 -
[52] - Quote
Great change!
Is it possible to tie some of this SP to tutorial missions? as a way to avoid older player abuse? And maybe this could help giving even more SP to players really involved into tutorials.
Keep the good work. Greetings |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
513
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:34:41 -
[53] - Quote
Excellent step in the right direction, though I do feel there is some merit in Mag's request for some choosing of a profession to start. A guy who wants to play Eve and mine is probably not gonna want 1/8th of his SP in gunnery when it would better suit him in shields by far. Choice and the resulting consequences that follow are also important.
The Law is a point of View
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TheMercenaryKing
Ultimatum. The Bastion
371
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:48:04 -
[54] - Quote
Not a bad change I guess. I mean, it does kind of suck for some of us vets who had to learn all of this stuff and plan accordingly - AFTER LEARNING SKILLS!
I mean, 300k exp is.....i think 2015 sp/hour is a good average (forgetting actual numbers) 350,000/2000 is like 175 hours, a week of training? Most of my skills are like week long or above to train so i am not missing anything really.
Some people say just give unallocated SP. New players don't know **** and that SP boost for an alt account is total BS.
I think taking it back even farther and make the bloodlines matter again would be cool too. Give bloodlines different starting skills - Indy focused, combat focused, trading focused. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
1934
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:55:38 -
[55] - Quote
Marox Calendale wrote:+1 it-¦s a great improvement for newbros, but i think it could be still a Little bit more.
For Amarr Players as Example:
in Spaceship command add also Amarr Destroyer, Amarr Cruiser, Amarr Battlecruiser and Amarr Battleship all at lvl 1 to it. You can-¦t train them higher until the previous skills are at least at lvl 3, but you would be able to use bigger ships. We all know how important frigates and destroyers can be, but newbros normally just want to fly Big Ships. That's not a good way of handling things. This not only sets an unnecessary precedent for skill training and skill injection incoherence (As if Command Ships without warfare skills trained wasn't nice enough already), it would also remove necessary money sinks from the game.
Frigs are more than enough for new players to toy around with and experience many activities of the game. What they want is not really of any concern as they cannot afford any of these ships or equip these ships to begin with. If they want to fly big toys, they train for them. Period.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Faby Rasputin
XoXCorp
7
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:47:26 -
[56] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi! This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k. The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system. IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLSOne note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu. Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback. Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.
Can I ask why you don't simply apply those skills to ALL current characters, and then give everyone the difference in skills they already have as unallocated SP? |
Greygal
Redemption Road Affirmative.
485
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:52:44 -
[57] - Quote
Outstanding change, and most excellent choice of starting skills to add! I particularly like that you including Salvaging. My only suggestion would be Evasive Maneuvering at 3
This change also makes it simpler for us to theorycraft Day 1 new player fits!
What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.
Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!
Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2244
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:53:46 -
[58] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Excellent step in the right direction, though I do feel there is some merit in Mag's request for some choosing of a profession to start. A guy who wants to play Eve and mine is probably not gonna want 1/8th of his SP in gunnery when it would better suit him in shields by far. Choice and the resulting consequences that follow are also important.
Except the newbie are likely to have next to no idea what they want can could choose wrong. Choose exploration because it sounds cool and all. Tuns out it's not what the guy though and want something different? Oh well, go afk for some time while your basic skill requirement to do the next thing you want to try train. I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure that is exactly what CCP want to avoid. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group
159
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:13:06 -
[59] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Excellent step in the right direction, though I do feel there is some merit in Mag's request for some choosing of a profession to start. A guy who wants to play Eve and mine is probably not gonna want 1/8th of his SP in gunnery when it would better suit him in shields by far. Choice and the resulting consequences that follow are also important. Except the newbie are likely to have next to no idea what they want can could choose wrong. Choose exploration because it sounds cool and all. Tuns out it's not what the guy though and want something different? Oh well, go afk for some time while your basic skill requirement to do the next thing you want to try train. I can't confirm but I'm pretty sure that is exactly what CCP want to avoid.
So, just give him combat skills, because you know, what sandbox? |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2641
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:30:21 -
[60] - Quote
I agree with some of the others here and I think it would be better to, instead of handing the skill points out, give them as reward for completing parts of the tutorial--and not as free SP to allocate but simply bumping up skills that aren't already at that level yet.
One interesting thing could be region-based SP: you complete a certain combat tutorial mission while in Minmatar space and it bumps your gunnery skill to 4 and your small projectile turret skill to 3. You go complete the same mission in Amarr space and now it bumps your small energy turret skill to 3.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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M1k3y Koontz
Respawn Disabled Initiative Mercenaries
802
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:50:04 -
[61] - Quote
This is a good change.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Zappity
the 57th Overlanders Brigade A Band Apart.
2471
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:00:19 -
[62] - Quote
Good job. Just thinking about the career missions that give you skill books. Do they tell you to inject? Might want to change them some time.
Also, these skills will be pointless on the market so will they be removed?
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Dersen Lowery
Scanners Live in Vain
1760
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:00:40 -
[63] - Quote
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess, from some comments that CCP Rise made last(?) summer, that CCP wants to avoid touching the existing career agents as much as possible, because it's all archaic hand-built special-snowflake code that's a huge pain to update.
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I agree with some of the others here and I think it would be better to, instead of handing the skill points out, give them as reward for completing parts of the tutorial--and not as free SP to allocate but simply bumping up skills that aren't already at that level yet.
There are skills that require other skills, too. I was rudely reminded of this when I started an alt, got Drones, trained it to 1 so I could use the 1 drone her current ship supported, found out I needed Light Drone Operation, got that, and then found out that it required Drones III.
It's a small delay, a matter of hours, but in a way that just makes it more infuriating. It's why I'm glad they're including higher-tier skills like Salvaging and Thermodynamics.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1270
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:45:09 -
[64] - Quote
Hmmm, I always support making life easier for newbies, but the entire skill system is moving more and more towards the 'learning skill' debacle.
As in, all the support skills are something that everyone should train to 4 ASAP. That's something every newbie learns and hears from their corp overlords. So now a great number of support skills are pre-trained to 4 already, allowing newbies to skip that process, which is good because they can jump right into what they think is fun.
But I'm detecting a trend here over the years. Things are being identified as redundant or unwanted and subsequently being removed.
Learning skills got the boot because the lack of 'choice'. Medical clones got the boot because of the lack of 'choice'. The entire attribute system is up for removal because doing anything other than optimizing your attributes is stupid and this presents a lack of 'choice'.
Now newbies are getting extra SP to bridge this collection of 'lack of choice' skills, while it could be argued that the problem lies in these skills themselves.
Following the above trend I wouldn't be surprised if a great number of support skills, like CPU, PG and Cap skills are going to be completely phased out in due time. And I'm not sure yet if I think that's a good idea.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
193
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:55:32 -
[65] - Quote
i really like the idea to help out new players, honestly i think this will go a long way but i want to raise the stakes a bit by giving them a one time reward on a finished career path lets say 150k unallocated SP
why? simpel because you give them a reason to do the tutorials and by the time they are done with that they get a reward (always nice) and have more knowledge of the game so they can spend the points wisely and how they see fit. ofcourse those points can only be rewarded once per character.
i dont see any reasons to exclude people from the one reward on career path so everybody should be able to do so. If CCP thinks otherwise i am fine with that too
[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
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Pic'n dor
Wild Sentinels Honorable Third Party
41
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 22:07:23 -
[66] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi! This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k. The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system. IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLSOne note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu. Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback. Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.
Nice move for newbros
But can you remove all those skills that are comon for every characters from the npc market ?
Free plug them to every existing characters and then remove them from NPC. It will lighten the market windows and loading time for everyone.
Thx
COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 22:28:25 -
[67] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Learning skills got the boot because the lack of 'choice'. Medical clones got the boot because of the lack of 'choice'. The entire attribute system is up for removal because doing anything other than optimizing your attributes is stupid and this presents a lack of 'choice'.
Now newbies are getting extra SP to bridge this collection of 'lack of choice' skills, while it could be argued that the problem lies in these skills themselves. Not exactly. The SP grant here is because the early hours of the game are going to involve a large portion of 'hunt the skillbook', along with 'I'd love to do that Mr/Mrs Career Agent, only I need to wait another 30 min for Industry I to finish'.
With luck though, your prediction that more and more skills will be removed will come true.
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FibreOptic
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 22:37:04 -
[68] - Quote
My character is 2 weeks old today and will be 2 weeks 4 days old on the day of the release.
I made the decision to buy a single PLEX in order to purchase an advanced cerebral accelerator and a standard cerebral accelerator. Buying PLEX for ISK is not something I will do again as I do not think that Eve should be pay to win, however the boost to a new character is dramatic and I felt that it was worth the investment.
I'm a little disappointed to read that I am not eligible for the updated starting skill points as there are skills on this list that I am missing. |
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
193
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 22:40:10 -
[69] - Quote
FibreOptic wrote:My character is 2 weeks old today and will be 2 weeks 4 days old on the day of the release.
I made the decision to buy a single PLEX in order to purchase an advanced cerebral accelerator and a standard cerebral accelerator. Buying PLEX for ISK is not something I will do again as I do not think that Eve should be pay to win, however the boost to a new character is dramatic and I felt that it was worth the investment.
I'm a little disappointed to read that I am not eligible for the updated starting skill points as there are skills on this list that I am missing.
i definitely think they should do something for the newer chars that missed out on this because they started before that. i think they MUST do this, not for me i passes the 100 mil SP so i am good :) but yeah i feel your post
[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
292
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 22:53:07 -
[70] - Quote
That will help new people get on their feet faster. Thanks! |
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Aliventi
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
912
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:00:40 -
[71] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback. This looks really good. Thank you for taking the time to fix this issue.
The only issue I can see is that missiles get a small fraction if the SP that gunnery does. Gunnery get many of the support skills trained to level one and sometimes level two. This is especially annoying because missiles take far longer to train than turrets. Is this an across the board, or is this because the character example is Amarr and doesn't really use missiles? Will Caldari characters get more missile SP than gunnery SP? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1595
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:06:51 -
[72] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:I really think that anyone who hasn't got the skills trained already should get them bumped up to the same level as a new character ill have.
It seems to me like the fairest option and will (hopefully) stop anyone from bitching about these changes. What about those who do not want those skills injected? Do we simply ignore their wants and do it anyway? To what end do they not want them? I don't think we have any quantifiable harm. Not having the choice doesn't even satisfy any criteria of harm. Further, since starting skills have always been somewhat arbitrary how is this any different fundamentally for those that would have forgone some of the old starting skills? |
sten mattson
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
89
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:07:52 -
[73] - Quote
wouldnt it be more fair to just inject all the missing skills directly for everyone rather than give newly created characters free 350k sp? what about the newbie that is a month old instead of 2 weeks?
that way people dont get free 350k sp which is enough to get a free 24h old cyno toon and everyone will get the default skills now which means that some skillbooks could be removed from market ect.
IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!
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Edwin Wyatt
Nox Atra
75
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:23:39 -
[74] - Quote
Damn CCP fails again.
Why would I want my industrial character to have a bunch of wasted gunnery skills, and why would I want my combat pilot to have mining or production skills. Pull your head out of your butt CCP.
Why not provided ways for new players to earn these extra skillpoints by running the starter missions and allow them to decide what skills they do or do not want after they learn how to play the game and what the skills do. I don't know about you but after my first 30 days if I was given 350k of skillpoints to distribute how I want, I could have a lot of fun with very little wait.
So much for a Player driven world. Its only as player drive as CCP wants it to be.
Edwin |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1595
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:29:44 -
[75] - Quote
Edwin Wyatt wrote:Damn CCP fails again.
Why would I want my industrial character to have a bunch of wasted gunnery skills, and why would I want my combat pilot to have mining or production skills. Pull your head out of your butt CCP.
Why not provided ways for new players to earn these extra skillpoints by running the starter missions and allow them to decide what skills they do or do not want after they learn how to play the game and what the skills do. I don't know about you but after my first 30 days if I was given 350k of skillpoints to distribute how I want, I could have a lot of fun with very little wait.
So much for a Player driven world. Its only as player drive as CCP wants it to be.
Edwin Why does having skills you may not use but spent no time or effort on constitute an issue? The goal here is to give some basic capabilities, not have a free early specialty.
Also, how does having extra skills on your skill sheet restrict you as a player in any way? How does having more abilities than you might use cause your activities to be less player driven? You literally have more options as a player rather than restrictions due to skill limits. |
Edwin Wyatt
Nox Atra
75
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:34:40 -
[76] - Quote
Simple, why does CCP choice which skills I want, we haven't had these skills for years but now my hauler must have a bunch of gunnery skills.
I think the increase in skills is great but give the Player the choice, or continue to watch subs declined. Whichever works best for you CCP :)
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1595
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:40:02 -
[77] - Quote
Edwin Wyatt wrote:Simple, why does CCP choice which skills I want, we haven't had these skills for years but now my hauler must have a bunch of gunnery skills.
I think the increase in skills is great but give the Player the choice, or continue to watch subs declined. Whichever works best for you CCP :)
CCP doesn't chose the skills you want, only those you start with. You chose the skills you want by training them. The your hauler has gunnery skills doesn't in any way reduce the ability to haul, nor does it restrict the ability to improve you hauling through training.
Starting skills are there to provide a baseline capability, not provide free specialization. That's what skill training is for. |
Edwin Wyatt
Nox Atra
75
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:55:04 -
[78] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Edwin Wyatt wrote:Simple, why does CCP choice which skills I want, we haven't had these skills for years but now my hauler must have a bunch of gunnery skills.
I think the increase in skills is great but give the Player the choice, or continue to watch subs declined. Whichever works best for you CCP :)
CCP doesn't chose the skills you want, only those you start with. You chose the skills you want by training them. The your hauler has gunnery skills doesn't in any way reduce the ability to haul, nor does it restrict the ability to improve you hauling through training. Starting skills are there to provide a baseline capability, not provide free specialization. That's what skill training is for.
You simple do not get it, what is the objective of these starter skills?
To provide the player with a better starting experience... Okay lets give them a bunch of useless skills that don't benefit "THEIR" gameplay a bit. Or, we use the starter mission to explain how these skills work, and once they put in a little effort they're provided with some SP to distribute any way they want.
In a player drive world is all about choices, if you had watch "The Butterfly Effect" you would know this because CCP says it like 40 times.
When players have a bunch of other choices in games, they will join the thousands of other players who have already unsubded and player games that give me the choice.
Ed |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1596
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:20:48 -
[79] - Quote
Edwin Wyatt wrote:You simple do not get it, what is the objective of these starter skills?
To provide the player with a better starting experience... Correct up to here...
Edwin Wyatt wrote:Okay lets give them a bunch of useless skills that don't benefit "THEIR" gameplay a bit. Or, we use the starter mission to explain how these skills work, and once they put in a little effort they're provided with some SP to distribute any way they want. ...but wrong here. The starting skills are, as stated prior, a baseline of capabilities, designed for all players and thus take into account each end. The weren't designed more for one player than another because at the point these skills are given a player is likely to lack certainty on their direction.
Further, your plea towards player choice is ironic because it obligates players to take the NPC driven NPE in order to receive their SP. That's not player freedom. A player shouldn't be obligated to do the starter missions more than is already suggested or risk missing out on a big part of their starting package. The player driven aspect starts at the first login, not after the tutorials are done.
Lastly, these skills, once more, are a baseline. They are the point where players should start. Not lower, and not higher in certain capacities either. That's what skill training is for.
Edwin Wyatt wrote:In a player drive world is all about choices, if you had watch "The Butterfly Effect" you would know this because CCP says it like 40 times.
When players have a bunch of other choices in games, they will join the thousands of other players who have already unsubded and player games that give me the choice.
Ed Learn what meaningful player choice is then come back and talk about it. Learn the difference between a sandbox opening and a necessary tutorial. Learn about the truth of the NPE and recall how ill equipped you were when entering the game to fathom exactly what you needed to train next and thus how useless free SP would have been.
Further, maybe you should understand there is no real lost choice in this, only choices gained earlier. The ability for vets to "choose" to not have a skill in their skillsheets is nothing compared to new players having the ability to chose more activities the moment they log in regardless of what or where they do it.
But mostly learn the history of the game and realize that we've always had a static set of skills at character creation, even in the times of Eve's greatest growth and realize you premise has no basis in fact. |
LYGIA
Van Diemen's Demise Pandemic Legion
57
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:57:44 -
[80] - Quote
Hi CCP Rise! My new alt was born at 13:06 on Sep/15th. Is characters born on '15th/Sep' regarded as in 2 weeks and will she get 300k sp as well? For security reason, I'll not reveal my new alt. If you want, I'll send u an eve-mail. |
|
Zavand Crendraven
Rolling Static Gone Critical
23
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 01:29:50 -
[81] - Quote
Edwin Wyatt wrote:Simple, why does CCP choose which skills I want, we haven't had these starter skills for years but now my hauler must have a bunch of gunnery skills. It clearly shows CCP break from reality, they have good ideas but never propely implement them because whenever they run into road blocks or hurdles they simple ignore it and move on, which is why 90% of the changes in EVE are never complete.
Where is our 5th subsystem CCP?
I think the increase in skills is great but give the Player the choice, or continue to watch subs declined. Whichever works best for you CCP :)
All i get from reading this is that your bitter that you cant get your alts done training faster. Also what player choices? This is for newbies not veterans. A veteran might have some choice in what he wants the SP to be allocated in but a pure newbie dont even understand what there is to choose from. Thus to make it favorable for new people rather than alt accounts the SP is given out already allocated. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2761
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 02:34:11 -
[82] - Quote
Nice one.
It would be nice if you could influence your starting skill pack with some background choices during character creation, but this is still great.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32355
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 03:21:36 -
[83] - Quote
EVE is dying
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1775
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 03:45:44 -
[84] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Lady Rift wrote:instead of free sp for every one created up to the release why not just credit everyone these skills no matter there age if they don't already have them. This way there no free sp being given most won't even gain anything but it sets everyone on the same foot.
I agree with this, much better than unallocated SP. Oh an I just realized. Welcome back to the forums CCP Rise we have missed you! not at all. having mining level 1 is bad enough
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2735
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 03:52:20 -
[85] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Nice one.
It would be nice if you could influence your starting skill pack with some background choices during character creation, but this is still great. I think it still does that if I'm seeing this right. It seems like most of the sp bonus went into moving certain skills from 1-2 up to 3-4. |
Chocolaty Sprogmaster
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 07:09:37 -
[86] - Quote
Urg, I'm less than a month old, but it looks like I'm gonna fall outside the bonus skillpoints. I just broke 1M SP, and most of them are those skills that are being granted. So I basically paid for the last month to train skills that everyone is gonna get now >_<. |
Zappity
the 57th Overlanders Brigade A Band Apart.
2471
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 07:15:40 -
[87] - Quote
Maybe unallocated SP are an alternative use for learning implants. A clone with a full set of learning implants could accrue unallocated SP but at a slower rate than skill-specific accrual. So +3 would earn unallocated SP at 80% of the new post-learning implant rate, +4 at 85%, +5 at 90%.
But woefully off topic so sorry about that.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
208
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 07:26:20 -
[88] - Quote
Chocolaty Sprogmaster wrote:Urg, I'm less than a month old, but it looks like I'm gonna fall outside the bonus skillpoints. I just broke 1M SP, and most of them are those skills that are being granted. So I basically paid for the last month to train skills that everyone is gonna get now >_<.
its 8 and a half days of training at a slow rate. not a month. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2532
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 07:38:06 -
[89] - Quote
I feel that PG & CPU Management at IV takes away from the existence of the skill. If such a skill is to exist, then new players should be starting with it at 1 or 2. If this is too low then PG & CPU bases need to be upped and the impact of the skill reduced in magnitude. This then allows for meaningful differentiation in fitting skills, which is currently a thing.
I'm also of the opinion you should fill these skills in on characters without them, regardless of age, but not give out free unallocated SP. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
426
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 07:44:51 -
[90] - Quote
How long before 400k is, again, deemed too much?
Not that I disagree with the change - but I remember the days when new starters began with 400k before and remember that it was reduced; IIRC because it helped alts far more than new players and actually seemed to widen the skill-gap (again IIRC). Didn't it also have a detrimental effect on people's sense of progression because it included things like engineering and electronics (as they were) at three?
Of course I also remember the days when the character creation process included a decision tree which could yield much lower starting totals (I chose lots of low level skills and I think I ended up with one of the lowest skillpoint totals possible) but gave you ownership of them. |
|
Vilar Diin
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 07:51:48 -
[91] - Quote
Mag's wrote:The only issue I see with this approach, is the giving of skills one may not want. Could you look to making focused skill set choices. I.E. PvP focused, Trader focused, mining focused etc.
This from a perspective of someone who has industry and mining at one, with no intention on ever using them. But no choice as to their inclusion.
Exactly what I was thinking! Have you considered making 300k "templates" (explorer, trader, combat spec., miner, hauler, Indy )?
That would allow newbies to experiment with up to 3 different play styles per account and ultimately pick the one that suits them (and keeps them subbed!)
P.s. Mags I have always adored your incisive posts never stop... |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
153
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 08:13:39 -
[92] - Quote
I would say 400k starting is a good balance; I definitely wouldn't give any more though otherwise you will overwhelm a new player and take away the felling of achievement they get by working out and gaining the skills they need themselves.
One thing I would suggest is offer the player skill packages upon creation of a new character. So if they want to be an industrialist give them more skills in industrial stuff but less in combat for instance. Currently you are overwhelming the player with too many choices with this new opportunities system and also with the jack of all trades skill set.
I remember when I started we got to choose between different professions so to speak. The attributes being fixed was a bad thing, but having a focused skill package to start off with was actually a good point of the old system.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
|
Dermeisen
27
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 08:16:36 -
[93] - Quote
Very supportive of this change.
New mission arcs for new players in the NPE that utilise the new AI with sound voiced actors, please!
A tutorial on manual flying using the tracking camera etc. Catching a faster ship with a scram, all demanding skills!
Honestly burners are fun, but isn't possible to use AI to make then get a new bro into a squad and the teach him about broadcasts and the overview, tagging/following tags?
Introduce lore, teach tackling.
Anyway great job Rise, big fan of your since your bringing back solo podcast.
"Not the Boreworms!"
|
Zapp McDouche
Black Spot on Parchment
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 08:27:54 -
[94] - Quote
this is great stuff! Keep up the good work! |
Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
197
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 10:22:18 -
[95] - Quote
FibreOptic wrote:My character is 2 weeks old today and will be 2 weeks 4 days old on the day of the release.
I made the decision to buy a single PLEX in order to purchase an advanced cerebral accelerator and a standard cerebral accelerator. Buying PLEX for ISK is not something I will do again as I do not think that Eve should be pay to win, however the boost to a new character is dramatic and I felt that it was worth the investment.
I'm a little disappointed to read that I am not eligible for the updated starting skill points as there are skills on this list that I am missing.
^^ I'd like to see new players who recently paid up their accounts taken care of too because that's going to leave a bad taste.
Otherwise this change is all positive. It's such a pain for new players waiting 20mins before they can fit even basic t1 mods, it's basically telling them sign up queue skills and go away for a couple days because you can't do anything yet.
What I think would be even better is if these skills were specialised into industry/trade/combat depending on what sub race the player picks at start up.
Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war:
The sinews of war; infinite money.
|
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1729
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 10:23:01 -
[96] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:I feel that PG & CPU Management at IV takes away from the existence of the skill. If such a skill is to exist, then new players should be starting with it at 1 or 2. If this is too low then PG & CPU bases need to be upped and the impact of the skill reduced in magnitude. This then allows for meaningful differentiation in fitting skills, which is currently a thing.
I'm also of the opinion you should fill these skills in on characters without them, regardless of age, but not give out free unallocated SP.
Exactly what I am thinking at the moment...
why should I start with +20 % CPU? Is there a real change to level 5 for a new player? The skill seems to become redundant over the time... |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1745
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 10:47:58 -
[97] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Nice one.
It would be nice if you could influence your starting skill pack with some background choices during character creation, but this is still great.
This is how it used to be. Frankly, that system sucked. You ended up with everyone who knew what they were doing picking the ideal background to get the best starting skills and attributes.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
|
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1745
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 10:49:14 -
[98] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:I feel that PG & CPU Management at IV takes away from the existence of the skill. If such a skill is to exist, then new players should be starting with it at 1 or 2. If this is too low then PG & CPU bases need to be upped and the impact of the skill reduced in magnitude. This then allows for meaningful differentiation in fitting skills, which is currently a thing.
I'm also of the opinion you should fill these skills in on characters without them, regardless of age, but not give out free unallocated SP.
They really should just get rid of Powergrid and CPU Management. These skills make no sense.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
|
Rufelza
Widowmakers
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 11:12:42 -
[99] - Quote
Rather than giving new characters free skill points they should remove half a millions worth of fitting skills from the game and while they are at it remove all the stat bonuses from implants as this only favours richer players.
obviously 'programming' issues but maybe once the brain in the box is rolled out this might be considered.
|
Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
197
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 11:25:44 -
[100] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:How long before 400k is, again, deemed too much?
Not that I disagree with the change - but I remember the days when new starters began with 400k before and remember that it was reduced; IIRC because it helped alts far more than new players and actually seemed to widen the skill-gap (again IIRC). Didn't it also have a detrimental effect on people's sense of progression because it included things like engineering and electronics (as they were) at three?
Of course I also remember the days when the character creation process included a decision tree which could yield much lower starting totals (I chose lots of low level skills and I think I ended up with one of the lowest skillpoint totals possible) but gave you ownership of them.
I don't think the change is about closing the gap between new players and vets, it's all about improving new players first impression of the game. Currently they have to wait 20mins to fit a tech1 afterburner, 8hours to fit a mwd, just about every mod they try to use requires buying a skillbook and waiting, it's not a good introduction.
Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war:
The sinews of war; infinite money.
|
|
Luscius Uta
169
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 11:37:27 -
[101] - Quote
Rise, you're my favourite CCP employee, <3 you much
Now if you only also considered removing all those timesink fitting skills (Powergrid and CPU Management are the biggest offenders here as they affect virtually every pilot regardless of what ships they intend to fly), since they severely limit your fitting options until they are trained to V.
Drifters have arrived - The End is nigh!
|
Aleara Matsuo
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 12:32:16 -
[102] - Quote
I hate to be a pain. I have created this character fairly recently. (About 1 month old). I am over 400k sp now, but many of the skills to be added to new pilots I don't have. 400k sp is quite a bit of training, which I would love to have had, but no use complaining about that now. Is it possible for you to maybe add all the new baseline skills to all pilots rather than a boost for the few select pilots who just missed the vanguard release? |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1729
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 13:02:55 -
[103] - Quote
Aleara Matsuo wrote:I hate to be a pain. I have created this character fairly recently. (About 1 month old). I am over 400k sp now, but many of the skills to be added to new pilots I don't have. 400k sp is quite a bit of training, which I would love to have had, but no use complaining about that now. Is it possible for you to maybe add all the new baseline skills to all pilots rather than a boost for the few select pilots who just missed the vanguard release?
If your char is older than one month, you should have reached 1.6 to 1.8M SP now... 350k SP is equal to round about 7 days of trainnig with 2200 SP/h...
7 days time of training, who cares... you are playing a game and not paying for the SPs only. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3159
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 13:17:16 -
[104] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Lady Rift wrote:instead of free sp for every one created up to the release why not just credit everyone these skills no matter there age if they don't already have them. This way there no free sp being given most won't even gain anything but it sets everyone on the same foot.
I agree with this, much better than unallocated SP. Oh an I just realized. Welcome back to the forums CCP Rise we have missed you! not at all. having mining level 1 is bad enough I'm sorry, does having a skill that you never use on a skill sheet you never look at make you sad? Frankly it helps out newish player far more than unallocated SP would.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2257
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 14:14:23 -
[105] - Quote
Aleara Matsuo wrote:I hate to be a pain. I have created this character fairly recently. (About 1 month old). I am over 400k sp now, but many of the skills to be added to new pilots I don't have. 400k sp is quite a bit of training, which I would love to have had, but no use complaining about that now. Is it possible for you to maybe add all the new baseline skills to all pilots rather than a boost for the few select pilots who just missed the vanguard release?
If you start training them now, you will probably have all of them. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
102
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 15:43:46 -
[106] - Quote
Aleara Matsuo wrote:I have created this character fairly recently. (About 1 month old). I am over 400k sp now, I should hope so. At one month old you should be more than triple that.
The skill grant can be defined in terms of raw SP amount, but that's not actually the goal of the change. If you look at the skills involved, they're almost all going for the early "You cannot fit module X until you train Y" barriers. I'm in a similar position with this alt. I'm sitting at 1.6M-ish SP, but still can't fit an MWD because I don't have that tiny little pre-req.
Why? Because I didn't want it. I had other goals in mind for the skills on this alt so I didn't bother training that. You've had the opportunity for that too. If Mining III, Industry I or Amarr Frigate III were really that important to you they would have shown up in your skill queue before the end of your first month. You've made it over the early "I can't fit anything!" speed bump, so CCP doesn't really need to add or change anything to get you into the right place.
So yeah, I'm with you: Grand 350 million SP to everybody and be done with it. But I get why CCP isn't falling all over themselves to retroactively grant newbie fitting skills.
|
Dersen Lowery
Scanners Live in Vain
1764
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:12:10 -
[107] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote: I agree with this, much better than unallocated SP.
not at all. having mining level 1 is bad enough
So train it to V already.
The problem with the career packages, as much as I like the idea, is that they don't substitute for this change, they merely enhance it. The great thing about this change is that you can log in to EVE for the first time with no clear idea what you want to do and try just about everything immediately. You can even fit all of the slots on your frigate!
It's a huge leap from "you can do this pretty badly tomorrow" to "you can do this badly right now and see if you like it."
I could see skill packages being unlocked at the end of the relevant career tutorials, in a way that didn't require the newbie to pick one right then. That would be nice. It would hard to get right given that it would essentially penalize any new player who was with it enough to have started training their way into a career already.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
|
Neph
Operation Meatshield Plexodus
144
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:15:18 -
[108] - Quote
Faby Rasputin wrote:Can I ask why you don't simply apply those skills to ALL current characters, and then give everyone the difference in skills they already have as unallocated SP?
+1
This proposition has my full support.
Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
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Christos0b Gamiades
AN-CAPS
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:20:58 -
[109] - Quote
So , help me understand something. I started playing at the 24th of August , spent a big portion of my month so far training skills that are now gonna be available "for free" from scratch , am i elligible for those SP's ? |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
220
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:46:24 -
[110] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:I too like the idea of granting additional SP after subscribing for the first time. It's not pay-to-win by any means as most stuff is already covered by "cannot be trained on trial accounts".
I'd also like to see a better initial attributes mapping. Splitting all the AP between intelligence and perception for example, or, better yet, just killing the attributes and implants system entirely. I've had the conversation 4 times this week about remapping, and how the most efficient way of gaining skillpoints is the least fun.
what about willpower and memory?
What they should do is remove the charisma points and spread them around. and give a couple more social and trades skills when people start the game. |
|
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
220
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:47:46 -
[111] - Quote
Christos0b Gamiades wrote:So , help me understand something. I started playing at the 24th of August , spent a big portion of my month so far training skills that are now gonna be available "for free" from scratch , am i elligible for those SP's ?
if you already trained them no there's no way you would be given them as you already have them if you dont have them yet hope ccp is nice to you. |
Shadowforge Dawkins
Catastrophic Overview Failure Brave Collective
27
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 19:11:42 -
[112] - Quote
Quick question on a current item, or at least one around when I started. there was some sort of item you had that would temporarily boost training speed for new accounts. I believe it was in the redeemables tab. Im hoping you are either 1 getting rid of it and making that boost automatic or 2 it is part of the boost in SP they get from the start.
such an item is silly because many of the new players, like myself at the time, had no idea they existed and wasted them by letting them expire and disappear from the redeemables tab.
cant find the item name im sure some vet or newb trainer would be able to name that thing. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
473
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 19:23:23 -
[113] - Quote
Does that mean that us older characters are given 350k unallocated skillpoints? |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1729
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 19:23:59 -
[114] - Quote
Shadowforge Dawkins wrote:Quick question on a current item, or at least one around when I started. there was some sort of item you had that would temporarily boost training speed for new accounts. I believe it was in the redeemables tab. Im hoping you are either 1 getting rid of it and making that boost automatic or 2 it is part of the boost in SP they get from the start.
such an item is silly because many of the new players, like myself at the time, had no idea they existed and wasted them by letting them expire and disappear from the redeemables tab.
cant find the item name im sure some vet or newb trainer would be able to name that thing.
There are three different kind of "cerebral accelerators"
And it is not for new players, it is for old vets who want to boost the training of their alt chars :) |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1729
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 19:25:42 -
[115] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:Does that mean that us older characters are given 350k unallocated skillpoints?
Maybe, the learning skills should have never been removed :(
CCP Rise wrote:... One note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu. ...
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3390
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 19:41:00 -
[116] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Obligatory "SLAP IN THE FACE OF YOUR VETS" post before anyone post it unironically.
IMO any bitter vet with 100+ million SP who feels this way is just simply bad. There is a decreasing return to SP in general. That is the difference between a 100 million SP character and a 120 million SP character is not that significant.
400,000 vs 50,000 is huge.
This is a good move, I personally think giving the players a chance to tailor it a bit would be nice, but than again many new players don't have enough knowledge of the game to necessarily make a good choice.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3390
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 19:43:58 -
[117] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Nice one.
It would be nice if you could influence your starting skill pack with some background choices during character creation, but this is still great.
That is how it was back when I first started in late 2007. My first character was going to be a miner. I had visions of having a huge mining empire. Then I tried mining and was like...ugghhh no. Back to the character creation process and go combat....later on, I did do another character with an industry focus to help make ISK.
BTW, I still have that first character and I know I did not train him for very long and he has around 880,000 SP. So starting SP were significantly higher back then.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3391
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 19:47:08 -
[118] - Quote
Chocolaty Sprogmaster wrote:Urg, I'm less than a month old, but it looks like I'm gonna fall outside the bonus skillpoints. I just broke 1M SP, and most of them are those skills that are being granted. So I basically paid for the last month to train skills that everyone is gonna get now >_<.
As I predicted back in some of the other threads on this topic. I think more than 2 weeks is necessary. I'd say a month, and after that make it a decreasing amount so that a 2 or 3 month gets 0 SP. And since these players probably already trained alot of these skills that are being boosted, give them free SP. They have enough time in game to make reasonable decisions.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
509
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Posted - 2015.09.25 20:17:38 -
[119] - Quote
wtf.....missiles ????
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
153
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Posted - 2015.09.25 20:31:00 -
[120] - Quote
Aleara Matsuo wrote:I hate to be a pain. I have created this character fairly recently. (About 1 month old). I am over 400k sp now, but many of the skills to be added to new pilots I don't have. 400k sp is quite a bit of training, which I would love to have had, but no use complaining about that now. Is it possible for you to maybe add all the new baseline skills to all pilots rather than a boost for the few select pilots who just missed the vanguard release? I don't think that is necessary as I for one wouldn't want to be given free skills (especially in mining). Id suggest any character under 3 months old should be given some free SP though to avoid hard feelings as when in your first couple of months 400k seems like a lot.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Bernin
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 20:44:44 -
[121] - Quote
so in the end. ccp will give me 350k sp's? since i already trained those. so the boost for the training pool is fair?
:D |
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2015.09.25 22:17:11 -
[122] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hi!
I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that!
Can't tell if Rise is butt-hurt by players doing some of the work or excited that he gets 20 extra minutes to drink some kind of Icelandic adult beverage! I would have liked to see these SP given out in a more NPE kind of way, but I'm sure people appreciate it anyway. /me walks away thinking...300k SP's wouldn't even take a day off the 45 day training time for Capital Ships V We all loves and wants free skillpoints.
300k can definately go a long way.. remember when you created your toon to allocate those 50k?
Wouldn't it be easier (and satisfy the larger player base) to award to 300k to all characters and that same day change the base start? just saying. |
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2015.09.25 22:26:22 -
[123] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Nice one.
It would be nice if you could influence your starting skill pack with some background choices during character creation, but this is still great. That is how it was back when I first started in late 2007. My first character was going to be a miner. I had visions of having a huge mining empire. Then I tried mining and was like...ugghhh no. Back to the character creation process and go combat....later on, I did do another character with an industry focus to help make ISK. BTW, I still have that first character and I know I did not train him for very long and he has around 880,000 SP. So starting SP were significantly higher back then. I think it was even higher than 880k at one point... |
Hemmo Paskiainen
510
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Posted - 2015.09.26 01:12:50 -
[124] - Quote
So.... everyone starts as a Amarr pilot?
"Relativity equals time plus momentum: if it can be erased by a single click on a button, would it be worth spending your time?"
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Aaril
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
12
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Posted - 2015.09.26 01:19:17 -
[125] - Quote
I agree this is a good move by CCP, but...
Instead of giving a 2 week old character 300k SP, you should apply these skills to ALL characters in the game. If a character has already spent the time to train these, THEN apply unallocated SP up to the 300k to all characters. This is the fairest solution to both newbros and bitter vets.
While the 300k would be nice on my main, I have an alt right now that is not very old and is slogging through support skills, and I would love to have these already trained. |
NaK'Lin
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
57
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Posted - 2015.09.26 04:29:46 -
[126] - Quote
Mag's wrote:The only issue I see with this approach, is the giving of skills one may not want. Could you look to making focused skill set choices. I.E. PvP focused, Trader focused, mining focused etc.
This from a perspective of someone who has industry and mining at one, with no intention on ever using them. But no choice as to their inclusion.
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Starbuck05
Warmongering Space Invaders Criminal Intentions.
321
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Posted - 2015.09.26 08:50:03 -
[127] - Quote
Rough estimate in my head .. around a week , maybe abit less of training .
The skills you added are quite good , really makes life easier when making a new char .
Well done +1
Also side question , im gonna assume that if you start with a Caldari toon you will get missle support skills instead of gunnery skills ? cause in that list im seeing only gunnery support skiils while missles got squat ( knowing the toon was amarr race from the list )
Just because i am blond does not make me stoooopid !
Warmongering space Invaders PvP corp looking for pilots ( Low Sec )
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC Bad Intention
4425
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Posted - 2015.09.26 10:34:25 -
[128] - Quote
Apologies if it's been brought up before, but here's my suggestion.
Some of the most important skills a newbie can have out of the box (IMO) should be those that let you fit basic modules. Propulsion jamming is there now which is great, but consider moving some of the Gunnery SP into High Speed Maneuvering. That way from the second they're born, newbies can fit full tackle and an mwd/ afterburner (since HSM requires AB). Their racial e-war should also be unlocked at level one.
Just my 2c. Looks great otherwise.
o7
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
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Ernest Shakleton
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:27:16 -
[129] - Quote
Good idea CCP,
but why not apply this skillpoints to the career one has choosen. In the beginning nobody knows how to allocate the skillpoints correctly. This would give the newbies some idea how to proceed. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
622
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:29:26 -
[130] - Quote
It could help. I, for one think it needs to remain given to fresh characters and not older ones. Hate me for that or don't, but the point is to aid players that are new, not give a 350k point gift to everyone. My two isk.
That said, I'd rather see some more improvements geared towards NPE especially if it's not already planned or in process. After watching one of JonnyPew's vids walking through some NPE struggles, I was shocked to find out that it's got some glaring holes in design that's negatively impacts it's mission: to teach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XREA7cvj6OY
It's actually a really good look at some problem areas regarding particularly the Opportunities System being too vague of the instructions and as he demonstrates, a seasoned player will be able to walk through such a course of instructions fine, but a newer player will likely get held up on the constant lack of direction.
I made a comment about adding glowing or highlighting effects to areas of the UI to point them out more when giving players each step. Especially in events where players are told by Aura to do something, but then never given even a clue as to how to go about doing those things, something like highlighting UI elements would go miles.
I want to point out that this was an idea by another player some time ago and I can't quite remember that player's name, but I remember thinking that would be worth a shot at adding in. It suprises me that it hasn't. I wanted to bring that forward because it's likely that CCP Dev's just didn't see that. Any thoughts, guys? Dev's, is that possible with the current UI and NeoCom? I really think it would be a lot of help for the "day one" players. Maker knows they could use all the help we can give them.
Finally, big shout-outs to JonnyPew for the vids; Awesome stuffs, mang.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
199
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:05:47 -
[131] - Quote
Ernest Shakleton wrote:Good idea CCP,
but why not apply this skillpoints to the career one has choosen. In the beginning nobody knows how to allocate the skillpoints correctly. This would give the newbies some idea how to proceed.
Agreed, most new players already have a good idea before they start what would interest them and they'll train down that path anyway - but they won't know which skills are optimal to get a decent start.
Obviously it can't be done now because it's a lot of work but if they ever come back to this in the future it should be considered. If done right it could be a useful way of drawing new players into the game more and showing them some of the different playstyles in eve. I'd even say get the marketing team or whoever is responsible for the promo videos to make a brief promo video for each sub race showing a little bit about the history of that sub-race tied in with information about what play style they suit, and maybe some game play footage etc. So new players will learn a lot about eve from making that first decision, and it's more engaging than reading text on a wiki or tutorial.
Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war:
The sinews of war; infinite money.
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
1939
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:50:02 -
[132] - Quote
Ernest Shakleton wrote:but why not apply this skillpoints to the career one has choosen. In the beginning nobody knows how to allocate the skillpoints correctly. This would give the newbies some idea how to proceed. How would you do that? I, for one, have run all career agents one after another so that I get a grasp of what's going on in EVE. I doubt that many newbies do not do exactly the same. On the other hand, you could probably ask them after they have completed all the tutorials which path they want to chose in EVE, lay down a basic skill plan curated by experienced players in that field and hand them the free SP.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Quisarious
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
8
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Posted - 2015.09.26 14:23:06 -
[133] - Quote
can we give them cyno III too please ? ) |
Nox Shadow
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.09.26 14:29:37 -
[134] - Quote
So I created this account on the 12th of September, which is apparently 3 days to old to get the free sp? Seems a little harsh, maybe make it for all accounts created in September?
Other then that seems like a good change. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2272
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Posted - 2015.09.26 21:51:36 -
[135] - Quote
Nox Shadow wrote:So I created this account on the 12th of September, which is apparently 3 days to old to get the free sp? Seems a little harsh, maybe make it for all accounts created in September?
Other then that seems like a good change.
But what about the guy who created on august 31 at that point? Any place they draw the line will amke some people think it's bad because they are just a bast it... |
Morgan Agrivar
Happy Endings Massage Parlor
75
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Posted - 2015.09.27 03:12:09 -
[136] - Quote
Wow.
Just wow.
All the bittervets have come out from the cracks and swarmed all over this. They are giving newbros some more skill points so they don't feel useless starting out. It isn't like they are handing out free Nightmares to newbros for subbing.
Some people are just overreacting. I am ok with them getting it and not having 300k sp added for me. Sheesh.
If you are getting worked up over this, please go visit a psychiatrist. You have issues.
"Out of all the people who have tried to kill me, you are my favorite."
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Valarian Dumonte
The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 05:52:33 -
[137] - Quote
Its like raising minimum wage. It really only benefits new bros. Oh well.
If it helps keep new players around then awesome. |
Pic'n dor
Wild Sentinels Honorable Third Party
41
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Posted - 2015.09.27 08:10:56 -
[138] - Quote
Pic'n dor wrote:
Nice move for newbros
But can you remove all those skills that are comon for every characters from the npc market ?
Free plug them to every existing characters and then remove them from NPC. It will lighten the market windows and loading time for everyone.
Thx
Let me insist on that point please.
On the other hand, if we want to keep newbros around, there could be an incentive like 1M Free SP when the account goes subscribed and 1M SP after 6 month (with some retroactiv thingy for the emo rage out there)
COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE
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Anthar Thebess
1310
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Posted - 2015.09.28 13:58:02 -
[139] - Quote
Good idea! New players should start having even more skill points. Can we get all characters <400k sp to have difference gifted to unallocated pool?
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1692
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Posted - 2015.09.28 14:34:28 -
[140] - Quote
Morgan Agrivar wrote:Wow.
Just wow.
All the bittervets have come out from the cracks and swarmed all over this. They are giving newbros some more skill points so they don't feel useless starting out. It isn't like they are handing out free Nightmares to newbros for subbing.
Some people are just overreacting. I am ok with them getting it and not having 300k sp added for me since I just passed 35m sp. Sheesh.
If you are getting worked up over this, please go visit a psychiatrist. You have issues.
I have no problem with it,but do wonder how long it will be before people start 'requesting' that it should be more... |
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
124
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Posted - 2015.09.28 14:45:20 -
[141] - Quote
Just cause the amount of people asking for free SP is too damn high in here.
Only give newly created players the SP buff together with the 2 week players prior to Vanguard.
Do NOT give unallocated SP to the rest of the EvE population. Getting newer players more quickly past some fundamental skills everyone should have, is not the same as having unallocated skill points that you can use for anything.
It can be argued that the players not within the 2 week period, should get the their skills adjusted to the new minimum. But that is not that same as giving all players a free amount of SP.
I honestly hope CCP will show restraint and push the change through as described in the OP, and not try to satisfy what is a clear attempt at some easy free SP points. |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1729
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Posted - 2015.09.28 15:57:17 -
[142] - Quote
It would be the same crying in here, if they have had decided NOT to donate any free unallocated skill points :)
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Nox Shadow
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.09.28 17:10:40 -
[143] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Nox Shadow wrote:So I created this account on the 12th of September, which is apparently 3 days to old to get the free sp? Seems a little harsh, maybe make it for all accounts created in September?
Other then that seems like a good change. But what about the guy who created on august 31 at that point? Any place they draw the line will amke some people think it's bad because they are just a bast it...
Using that methodology no character created before the patch goes live should receive the extra sp. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
120
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Posted - 2015.09.28 17:34:03 -
[144] - Quote
Nox Shadow wrote:Using that methodology no character created before the patch goes live should receive the extra sp. Untrue. There is a real reason for giving SP to players created just before the patch hit. Those players haven't been able to accumulate the SP necessary to match the default start. So by handing out an SP grant to very new characters, they're avoiding the scenario of having a player decide to biomass because a brand new character is better off than they are, SP wise.
Players more than a couple weeks old have enough SP that the new starting default is still well below their current total, meaning: A) They lose SP by restarting. B) If they really wanted the skills being provided by default, they could have trained them already. |
Alexis Nightwish
333
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Posted - 2015.09.28 18:42:13 -
[145] - Quote
While I'm totally for increasing a newbro's starting SP, I think the path you've chosen isn't the best one.
When I first started a decade ago, I was a able to indirectly determine my starting skills by the choices I made during the character creation process. I started heavily combat oriented, just as I wanted to be. I didn't have "wasted" SP in industry or trade or w/e. This was a positive experience as a new player.
You now start every single player out the same, with the same default set of skills, like a prepackaged commodity, forcing their starting SP to be spread out amongst all the areas rather than the ones the player may actually want. This is too much like real life where I have to take classes at the uni that I have no interest in in order to get the degree in what I actually want to do.
Instead I would have implemented a system during character creation that let a player choose the areas they wanted to focus in. If a player was unsure they could still choose to be a generalist.
Mornak wrote:+1
Maybe you could go a tiny little step further and also award an additional 100-300k SP's or so when someone sub's after the trial period... I think this would be a nice little insta-satisfaction for subbing your trial-acc... plus it might be enough to get some ppl to sub that otherwise wouldn't.
But please make them freely allocatable, so that new player can specialize themselves a bit... i think that is very important for the RPG part of this game...
it's not like the difference between 400k and 700k SP's would make much of a difference....
(i dont know if anything like this is already in place, haven't created a new char in ages.... please ignore if there already is such a insta-satisfaction thingy implemented)
Very this.
You could implement it as an opportunity.
Opportunity: Getting your Pilot's License Obtain a Pilot's License EXtension (PLEX) or purchase a subscription to obtain a one-time per account allotment of 300,000 freely allocatable skill points.
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2279
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Posted - 2015.09.28 18:55:15 -
[146] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:While I'm totally for increasing a newbro's starting SP, I think the path you've chosen isn't the best one. When I first started a decade ago, I was a able to indirectly determine my starting skills by the choices I made during the character creation process. I started heavily combat oriented, just as I wanted to be. I didn't have "wasted" SP in industry or trade or w/e. This was a positive experience as a new player. You now start every single player out the same, with the same default set of skills, like a prepackaged commodity, forcing their starting SP to be spread out amongst all the areas rather than the ones the player may actually want. This is too much like real life where I have to take classes at the uni that I have no interest in in order to get the degree in what I actually want to do. Instead I would have implemented a system during character creation that let a player choose the areas they wanted to focus in. If a player was unsure they could still choose to be a generalist. Mornak wrote:+1
Maybe you could go a tiny little step further and also award an additional 100-300k SP's or so when someone sub's after the trial period... I think this would be a nice little insta-satisfaction for subbing your trial-acc... plus it might be enough to get some ppl to sub that otherwise wouldn't.
But please make them freely allocatable, so that new player can specialize themselves a bit... i think that is very important for the RPG part of this game...
it's not like the difference between 400k and 700k SP's would make much of a difference....
(i dont know if anything like this is already in place, haven't created a new char in ages.... please ignore if there already is such a insta-satisfaction thingy implemented)
Very this. You could implement it as an opportunity. Opportunity: Getting your Pilot's License Obtain a Pilot's License EXtension (PLEX) or purchase a subscription to obtain a one-time per account allotment of 300,000 freely allocatable skill points.
This is cool and all untill you realise you would still have to tell newbie, do 4 jump toward system X to buy and inject the book and then stop your skill queu so you can apply your SP to this "mandatory" skill. The currently proposed method is more like "Here, you can try anything you want and make your path from there knowing they can go in pretty much any direction without having to buy/inject any skill for at least the basic steps of nearly every carrer line.
Unallocated SP is much more useful for vets rolling alt than rookie who barely know anything about the game. No need to give any additional slight edge to vets than they already have. |
Morgan Agrivar
Happy Endings Massage Parlor
76
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Posted - 2015.09.29 07:22:22 -
[147] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Morgan Agrivar wrote:Wow.
Just wow.
All the bittervets have come out from the cracks and swarmed all over this. They are giving newbros some more skill points so they don't feel useless starting out. It isn't like they are handing out free Nightmares to newbros for subbing.
Some people are just overreacting. I am ok with them getting it and not having 300k sp added for me since I just passed 35m sp. Sheesh.
If you are getting worked up over this, please go visit a psychiatrist. You have issues. I have no problem with it,but do wonder how long it will be before people start 'requesting' that it should be more...
I am okay with them going to 500k skill points. I don't see any reason to go higher than that. I would take the extra 150k sp and take the missile operation skill to 4 and get the missile support skills to at least level 1, just like what they propose for gunnery. Then take the 75-100k left over and let them distribute it however they wish. I saw where someone said that they could choose from different packs and that would determine what skills they get, whether they want pvp, missioning, mining, hauling/trading, etc.
It could be part of the character creation where they determine what path they want to take, or there could be a generic path for those who do not know what direction they want to go.
Just something about me...
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1497
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Posted - 2015.09.29 08:18:40 -
[148] - Quote
It seems like a decent enough spread although there's more emphasis on armour than shield, I realise those armour skills are also prereqs but it wouldn't hurt to add a few points into shield as well just to make it even/fair. It's the same thing for turrets vs missiles, yes more ships use turrets but that doesn't change the fact that this current allocation "punishes" someone for choosing to use them. Combined it effectively says "don't use shield tanking missile ships".
Then again it's just nuances, percentage point differences, but it does kinda stand out. |
Fishlipz
Jew Beams Incorporated
0
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Posted - 2015.09.29 12:47:13 -
[149] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi! This post is maybe a bit late but hopefully you will forgive me. TL;DR here is very simple, in Vanguard we are bumping starting skills for all newly created characters from 50k to roughly 400k. The goal here is to get new players over as many early barriers to gameplay as possible. By throwing in a whole bunch of prereqs and adding to the basic support skill amounts we are hoping new players have faster access to a wider range of activities right out of the box. I was going to type out the full list of skills but you know what, you guys are pretty much better at everything than us and have already created an imgur album of the skill list so I'll just give you that! It only has the list for one faction but they are almost identical except for a couple minor changes to support skills because of differences in weapon system. IMGUR ALBUM OF SKILLSOne note: if you made your character in the last few days you will have less SP than people who created after Vanguard, that's not good! Some time soon after Vanguard (maybe a week or so) we will hand out 300k unallocated SP to all characters created in the two weeks leading up to Vanguard release. Sorry for having to wait a little but we gotchu. Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback. Thanks! And as always, thanks for taking care of all the noobs out there.
Should just give everyone 300k sp for supporting your rapidly dying game. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2281
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 13:27:01 -
[150] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:It seems like a decent enough spread although there's more emphasis on armour than shield, I realise those armour skills are also prereqs but it wouldn't hurt to add a few points into shield as well just to make it even/fair. It's the same thing for turrets vs missiles, yes more ships use turrets but that doesn't change the fact that this current allocation "punishes" someone for choosing to use them. Combined it effectively says "don't use shield tanking missile ships".
Then again it's just nuances, percentage point differences, but it does kinda stand out.
From the OP, there is supposed to be slight difference in the starting kit depending on the weapon system. Not sure if this also apply to tank because it's not mentioned in Rise's post... |
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Ava Stormshield
Stormshield
0
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Posted - 2015.09.29 13:45:42 -
[151] - Quote
I created my 3 new toons on the 15 exactly 2 weeks before the patch this toon Jamie stormshield, Logan stormshield will we all be covered with the 300k free sp ?
Ava stormshield Jamie stormshield Logan stormshield
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HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1729
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 14:25:29 -
[152] - Quote
Ava Stormshield wrote:I created my 3 new toons on the 15 exactly 2 weeks before the patch this toon Jamie stormshield, Logan stormshield will we all be covered with the 300k free sp ?
Ava stormshield Jamie stormshield Logan stormshield
No, DEVs say, two weeks before patching day. As long the patch has not been released, it is not sure to get a free gift by CCP :) |
Ava Stormshield
Stormshield
0
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Posted - 2015.09.29 17:43:29 -
[153] - Quote
patch was today the 29th my toons were created on the 15th thats exactly 2 weeks to the day im just curious if im coverd as its right on the day |
Goray
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.09.29 18:12:38 -
[154] - Quote
I started to play four days ago and I was a little sad. Additional experience of starting the latest update for beginners - I do not got. It's a shame though :). |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
129
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Posted - 2015.09.29 18:38:52 -
[155] - Quote
Goray wrote:I started to play four days ago and i was a little sad. Additional experience of starting the latest update for beginners - i do not got. Offensively :). Read the OP carefully. You will get unallocated SP points, but might take a bit before they are on your character. Basically, you get the extra SP, if you created your character within the 2 weeks from the implementation of Vanguard.
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Goray
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.09.29 19:19:43 -
[156] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Read the OP carefully. You will get unallocated SP points, but might take a bit before they are on your character. Basically, you get the extra SP, if you created your character within the 2 weeks from the implementation of Vanguard.
Hmm, I overlooked diagonally. I will be more attentive to continue. Thank you :).
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NaK'Lin
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
58
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Posted - 2015.10.01 08:15:15 -
[157] - Quote
NaK'Lin wrote:Mag's wrote:The only issue I see with this approach, is the giving of skills one may not want. Could you look to making focused skill set choices. I.E. PvP focused, Trader focused, mining focused etc.
This from a perspective of someone who has industry and mining at one, with no intention on ever using them. But no choice as to their inclusion.
Not only would I give starting characters the choice of some "presets" for SP distribution, but I would allow them to then redistribute and fine-tune manually, for those who want it. The same way any other RPG / MMO does it.
Furthermore, from someone who is heavily involved in the broader gaming community, the biggest hurdle I have to get people onto EvE is progression speed. I find it hilarious that after 10+ years of playing you can't have a maxed character yet. That's idiotic, to say the least. I believe that after 12-18 months you character should be able to fly about any one race to near perfection (I mean V skills, yes), including core skills and support skills. Make it another 6-12 months (I would lean towards 6-9) for crosstraining into an entirely new race to perfection. Again, this would include things such as racial carrier V, dreads, etc. Your further progression of "endgame" would be game centric only, and ISK.
I barely know any game in which you aren't able to be "maxed" within at least 1 year, make it two, if it's a korean grindfest. The focus then is entirely on endgame activities. In Eve, this would be flying ships and doing your things. I would hate to be a new player in Eve, and CCP is literally BAD at getting new players into the game and is really catering to bittervets, wannabe vets to not lose more of existing active accounts.
For all those "old toons", your toons don't get worse, so no need to whine. they'll be just as good. Progression hurdles will still be ISK (skill book prices, ship prices, ship losses due to badly fitting **** they don't know how to fly yet, etc.) and maybe something you could implement on top of it, but I wouldn't see the need. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1772
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 09:26:54 -
[158] - Quote
NaK'Lin wrote:
I find it hilarious that after 10+ years of playing you can't have a maxed character yet.
Why do you think many of us have been playing for that long? Over 8.5 years here... and I still have a skill queue of 213 days...
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Zack Thren
Grey Operations
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 10:30:21 -
[159] - Quote
Hi, what date was the cut-off point for creating a character (and getting the 300k)?
i made my account on the 26th of September, i'm not sure where that leaves me..
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
130
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 15:07:23 -
[160] - Quote
Zack Thren wrote:Hi, what date was the cut-off point for creating a character (and getting the 300k)?
i made my account on the 26th of September, i'm not sure where that leaves me..
Read the OP carefully. You will get unallocated SP points, but might take a bit before they are on your character. Basically, you get the extra SP, if you created your character within the 2 weeks from the implementation of Vanguard
If the patch was implemented on the 29th, and you created your character on the 26th. Simple math will tell you, you are within 2 weeks of the implementation of Vanguard.
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NVision08
The Senate and People of Eve
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 03:01:06 -
[161] - Quote
300,000 to all the players. We vets will not benefit to the degree new players will so I agree its a good idea. However, fair is fair and I believe those of us who have played for years should not be slapped with favoritism towards new player without compensation. vets can use these skill points to round out uncommon ones we need w/o a total useless remap. These types of vet nerfs are beyond frustrating. Not wise to hit the players who made your game what it is today, CCP. |
Cardcaptor Sakura
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 23:57:50 -
[162] - Quote
Instead of just making it 400 k..maybe buff it to a million instead? |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
552
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 06:18:57 -
[163] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback.
I think it'd be better if new accounts automatically trained a lot faster for the first X SP. Like x4 or x5 times faster. I know there's already some training acceleration for the first 30 days (IIRC), via an implant, but it's only x2 speed. I think it should be changed to not be days-based but rather be SP-based, and give x5 speed for the first 500k SP then x2 speed for the next 1M SP.
Also, some years ago when I tried to introduce a friend to EVE, I had great problems getting that friend to actually get around to setting a skill to train. That person was used to a more WoW-like gaming style where you go out and do quests or kill monsters to gain XP, so there was quite an amount of waste going on, with the new player unable to understand that every hour without a skill set to train was wasted opportunity. The friend seemed to sour on EVE after a couple of days, and never went back.
Maybe that was an almost unique occurence. Perhaps 99.99% of people who try EVE actually get it within 6-12 hours, achieving a comprehensive understanding of the dynamics of skill advancement and the consequences of not queuing up a skill.
But if that isn't the case, if it's actually a relatively common occurence, then new accounts ought to automatically put SP into a bank when they don't have a skill training, for the first week or so. Because when introducing a new player to EVE, it is rather annoying to have to press so hard on "but you have to do this thing" issue.
Alternatively, you could have a pop-up, immediately upon first log-on, asking the player whether he wants to start training [racial] Frigate skill. If the player clicks "yes, plz" then automagically queue [racial] Frigate to train all the way up to 5, skill level by skill level, and continue to do so until the player changes it. If the player clicks "no thx, I'd rather choose myself" then do nothing. Perhaps even add Navigation to the queue too, upon a click of "yes":
[racial] Frigate to 3 Navigation to 2 [racial] Frigate to 4 Navigation to 3 Navigation to 4 [racial] Frigate to 5 Navigation to 5
That gives the new players a fairly good opportunity to get used to the game, before being required to go in and mess with the skill queue. Without (note this is included in what I wrote earlier) being barred from going in and messing with it if desired. |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
552
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 06:20:20 -
[164] - Quote
NVision08 wrote:300,000 to all the players. We vets will not benefit to the degree new players will so I agree its a good idea. However, fair is fair and I believe those of us who have played for years should not be slapped with favoritism towards new player without compensation. vets can use these skill points to round out uncommon ones we need w/o a total useless remap. These types of vet nerfs are beyond frustrating. Not wise to hit the players who made your game what it is today, CCP.
I don't have an opinion on this. I have something like 150+ million SP. I can't be arsed to have an opinion on me getting 300k SP either way.
But EVE needs to grow. Giving more SP to new players, one way or another, is good. |
Julian Celador
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 21:43:11 -
[165] - Quote
Hello!
Has the cutoff starting date been decided for receiving the unallocated skillpoints? I started my first and only EVE character on September 15th, exactly 2 weeks before the Vanguard update. I've spent the bulk of my training time on basic skills that I would have received automatically if I had just waited 2 weeks to start playing, and even then I'm still missing several skills that are now default. It would be great to make up for the lost time. Other than this small frustration, my experience with EVE has been great. :)
Thanks, Julian |
Celestine Hexa
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 21:53:24 -
[166] - Quote
Love this, created my first toon on Sunday 20th September, invested 2 Cerebral and whole +3 implants set on her now she has 1.2m after 15.5 days, if they release free sp this week then she will have roughly 1.7m sp by tuesday, love you CCP <3. |
Oxide Ammar
221
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 10:40:54 -
[167] - Quote
Off the topic, the account you posted images into it belongs to you.
Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2655
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 18:08:21 -
[168] - Quote
NVision08 wrote:300,000 to all the players. We vets will not benefit to the degree new players will I might be wrong, but I think this subject might be what spurned the creation of Malcanis' Law: "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of GÇÿnew playersGÇÖ, that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."
Veteran players can better take advantage of the skillpoint bonus because we know how to farm new characters and get them ready quickly. We know better how to take advantage of the free skillpoints.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Darkblad
Hilf Dir selbst in EVE
2334
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 12:32:25 -
[169] - Quote
Maybe that advantage resulted in the change in the way those SP got applied to only new accounts. and only the top SP character of each account. And you better did'nt create a new account during the last two days before Vanguard got deployed.
EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions
(EN & DE)
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2131
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 13:21:09 -
[170] - Quote
Quote:300.000 unallocated skillpoints have been rewarded to the highest skillpoint characters on accounts created between 00:00, September 15, and 11:00, September 27, to account for the additional skillpoints new character skills are now receiving
You said CHARACTERS, CCP Rise......not cool, not cool at all. |
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HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1731
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 13:56:48 -
[171] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Quote:300.000 unallocated skillpoints have been rewarded to the highest skillpoint characters on accounts created between 00:00, September 15, and 11:00, September 27, to account for the additional skillpoints new character skills are now receiving You said CHARACTERS, CCP Rise......not cool, not cool at all.
Have you created a LOT of new chars on your accounts as suitably future cyno alts? :D |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2132
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 14:01:22 -
[172] - Quote
HandelsPharmi wrote:afkalt wrote:Quote:300.000 unallocated skillpoints have been rewarded to the highest skillpoint characters on accounts created between 00:00, September 15, and 11:00, September 27, to account for the additional skillpoints new character skills are now receiving You said CHARACTERS, CCP Rise......not cool, not cool at all. Have you created a LOT of new chars on your accounts as suitably future cyno alts? :D
Yup, totally did. |
Meepo
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 00:10:56 -
[173] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Quote:300.000 unallocated skillpoints have been rewarded to the highest skillpoint characters on accounts created between 00:00, September 15, and 11:00, September 27, to account for the additional skillpoints new character skills are now receiving You said CHARACTERS, CCP Rise......not cool, not cool at all.
Yeah, I biomassed three alts with about 300k SP each and made new ones based on the original post. It was pretty clear what it said... |
elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
875
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 00:33:13 -
[174] - Quote
Salpad wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Let us know if you see any big problems with the skill list here or any other feedback. I think it'd be better if new accounts automatically trained a lot faster for the first X SP. Like x4 or x5 times faster. I know there's already some training acceleration for the first 30 days (IIRC), via an implant, but it's only x2 speed. I think it should be changed to not be days-based but rather be SP-based, and give x5 speed for the first 500k SP then x2 speed for the next 1M SP.
No!
And since you bought your skillpoints let me insert a histroy lesson for you. Once upon a time we had character attributes. You were thrown into the cold see and no idea what to do. At some point you found out that you had to train 10 skills to increase those character attributes.
CCP found the attribute skills silly and removed them. Everyone has the 10 attribute points my default, thus training 549375825678926572562506736 times faster than you did between 2003-2012.
Explain to me why a new player should train faster then he can comprehend what is going on?
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Pic'n dor
Wild Sentinels Honorable Third Party
41
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 12:06:33 -
[175] - Quote
Well, still think that new accounts should get a +1M SP when subscribing from trial and being advertised and some 50% speed up in training up to 5M SP.
No matter what, they still be pretty far from the average 30/90M SP pilots out there.
COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE
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Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
209
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 19:39:23 -
[176] - Quote
Pic'n dor wrote:Well, still think that new accounts should get a +1M SP when subscribing from trial and being advertised and some 50% speed up in training up to 5M SP.
No matter what, they still be pretty far from the average 30/90M SP pilots out there.
It's not really about closing the gap, it's just so they can get access to more content earlier.
Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war:
The sinews of war; infinite money.
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Pic'n dor
Wild Sentinels Honorable Third Party
41
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 19:58:21 -
[177] - Quote
i didn't meant about closing the gab but about keeping newbros around.
Now they can do more out of the box. good point But if you got an incentive to dig it more, that's even better !
COUCOU TOUCHE TOUCHE
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Vailen Sere
The Oasis Group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 00:13:05 -
[178] - Quote
Morgan Agrivar wrote:Wow.
Just wow.
All the bittervets have come out from the cracks and swarmed all over this. They are giving newbros some more skill points so they don't feel useless starting out. It isn't like they are handing out free Nightmares to newbros for subbing.
Some people are just overreacting. I am ok with them getting it and not having 300k sp added for me since I just passed 35m sp. Sheesh.
If you are getting worked up over this, please go visit a psychiatrist. You have issues.
You seem to be missing the point that being a vet lets you be a bitter vet on the forums.
Most don't even post in here. but when we do, we do so as a bitter vets and often with differing opinions which actually stimulates the discussion.
People never seem to argue the counterpoint with themselves, so instead we are the bitter vets and actually like the title. |
Morgan Agrivar
Happy Endings Massage Parlor
88
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 19:33:26 -
[179] - Quote
Vailen Sere wrote:Morgan Agrivar wrote:Wow.
Just wow.
All the bittervets have come out from the cracks and swarmed all over this. They are giving newbros some more skill points so they don't feel useless starting out. It isn't like they are handing out free Nightmares to newbros for subbing.
Some people are just overreacting. I am ok with them getting it and not having 300k sp added for me since I just passed 35m sp. Sheesh.
If you are getting worked up over this, please go visit a psychiatrist. You have issues. You seem to be missing the point that being a vet lets you be a bitter vet on the forums. Most don't even post in here. but when we do, we do so as a bitter vets and often with differing opinions which actually stimulates the discussion. People never seem to argue the counterpoint with themselves, so instead we are the bitter vets and actually like the title.
And you seem to miss the point that 300k sp will greatly help the newbros WAY more than someone running with 100m+ sp. That amount is a drop in the bucket to a 'bittervet' but yet they still complain that they aren't getting that sp. That is honestly pathetic.
I am now pushing 37m sp and I don't need the extra 300k sp since it won't benefit me as much as it would my friend who just joined Eve Online and is still learning the ropes.
A bittervet has the right to complain on the forums, but don't be surprised if no one takes them seriously. The only ones I am concerned about are the ones that just missed the cutoff. Maybe they should add 300k to every character under a certain sp and within a certain timeframe, maybe like those less than 1.5m sp and less than six weeks or so from Vanguard expansion.
Just something about me...
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Vailen Sere
The Oasis Group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 19:41:23 -
[180] - Quote
Morgan Agrivar wrote:Vailen Sere wrote:Morgan Agrivar wrote:Wow.
Just wow.
All the bittervets have come out from the cracks and swarmed all over this. They are giving newbros some more skill points so they don't feel useless starting out. It isn't like they are handing out free Nightmares to newbros for subbing.
Some people are just overreacting. I am ok with them getting it and not having 300k sp added for me since I just passed 35m sp. Sheesh.
If you are getting worked up over this, please go visit a psychiatrist. You have issues. You seem to be missing the point that being a vet lets you be a bitter vet on the forums. Most don't even post in here. but when we do, we do so as a bitter vets and often with differing opinions which actually stimulates the discussion. People never seem to argue the counterpoint with themselves, so instead we are the bitter vets and actually like the title. And you seem to miss the point that 300k sp will greatly help the newbros WAY more than someone running with 100m+ sp. That amount is a drop in the bucket to a 'bittervet' but yet they still complain that they aren't getting that sp. That is honestly pathetic. I am now pushing 37m sp and I don't need the extra 300k sp since it won't benefit me as much as it would my friend who just joined Eve Online and is still learning the ropes. A bittervet has the right to complain on the forums, but don't be surprised if no one takes them seriously. The only ones I am concerned about are the ones that just missed the cutoff. Maybe they should add 300k to every character under a certain sp and within a certain timeframe, maybe like those less than 1.5m sp and less than six weeks or so from Vanguard expansion. I didnt mention anything about not getting the SP.. but if its someone else complaining it's always a bittervet.
Here's one for yah. Go back to when we didn't have implants to boost your training :P Newbro's can get SP a LOT faster than we could.
What will be nice, is if thet get rid of the implants and get make SP a flat gain. That should get more people out of Bling clones and actually flying as opposed to always sit-skill waiting in the station. |
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Ray P
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 20:00:38 -
[181] - Quote
The skill points are well allocated. Thermodynamics 1 is essential for pvp |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1731
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 20:30:38 -
[182] - Quote
Thanks CCP for pimping my new Cyno chars,
they ways easier to train from 350k SP than from 50k SP :) |
Jajuka Cirim
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 09:30:30 -
[183] - Quote
Cardcaptor Sakura wrote:Instead of just making it 400 k..maybe buff it to a million instead? Hm. Reaching that first million is a milestone that most people should experience with anticipation. Also at some point there are skills being added that are irrelevant to certain builds. This efficiency is appreciated in the bazaar community.
I have always believed that certain players, if given the choice, would untrain certain skills at the same speed to flush them from a pilot's skillboard. Vets hand-wringing about those early misguided days skilling into mining.
In the case of my main, I simply made it a RP decision to shift careers from a Miner origin, and toss in a few no-utility science skills for flavour. |
Morgan Agrivar
Happy Endings Massage Parlor
90
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 18:59:54 -
[184] - Quote
Ray P wrote:The skill points are well allocated. Thermodynamics 1 is essential for pvp
I tend to agree for the most part. The only issue I have is they get you set up in gunnery but what if you want a missile toon? They should take a few more sp given to the toon and do a basic setup with missile too, with Missile Launcher Operation at 4 and have Rockets and Light Missiles at 2 or 3 and all of the missile support skills at 1.
Then it will be a well-rounded starting character.
Just something about me...
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Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 06:45:08 -
[185] - Quote
I'm actually missing a couple of the free skills. |
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1732
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 07:26:08 -
[186] - Quote
Kaybella Hakaari wrote:I'm actually missing a couple of the free skills.
Buy them and put them in your skill queue! |
ARMED1
The Coven's Spoon Corner Pub Bad Intention
80
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 03:04:57 -
[187] - Quote
Might have already been said - but IMO if you give it to noobs you should give it to the bitter vets as well.
Its great to keep new faces (and new alts) coming into game, but why does it always (always, always, always) come at the expense of players who have played EVE for long periods of time?
Would be no big deal for CCP to give us bittervets a 400k SP handout as well if they are doing it for new accts. I mean really.
But whatever - Im so not surprised. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
935
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 04:20:02 -
[188] - Quote
HandelsPharmi wrote:Thanks CCP for pimping my new Cyno chars,
they ways easier to train from 350k SP than from 50k SP :)
Sure that sounds almost important. And since you have to train 10 character attribute skills it would have less than a week to train engineering to level 3 and elctronics to level 3.
Zee horror.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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