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Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.23 00:33:00 - [91] Originally by: Megas Alkaia Originally by: Smoking Mirror Actually "market pvp" WAS cited Since no one has pointed this out: Prices were and are consistently better at the IAC stations across the board on all products, modules, and ships. Availability was better too... so if there was any "market pvp" they were winning it. Beleive me I shopped there all the time. I believe some annoyances were over ISS people being ****s on our market. You know, 1m isk shuttles, mineral sell traps, etc. But don't take my word for it; I'm not "in the know" when it comes to our carebearing stuffs. ---- Marginis and Tycho, sitting in a tree, camped in by fifteen hundred IAC*
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.23 00:33:00 - [92] this is really an interesting one wonder where CVA and a couple of others sit as wel These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.23 00:38:00 - [93] Originally by: Raem Civrie I believe some annoyances were over ISS people being ***s on our market. You know, 1m isk shuttles, mineral sell traps, etc. But don't take my word for it; I'm not "in the know" when it comes to our carebearing stuffs. I agree thats annoying, and people do it, and theres really nothing you can do to stop people doing it (as they can just use a trade alt). But is that really a good reason to go to war? I think we both know its not. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.**
USN CVN72 Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.12.23 00:44:00 - [94] the original post was well thought out... EXCELLENT POST DUDE!!! and your spot on how ISS and IAC will be the only losers in this conflict... USN CVN7273
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.23 01:32:00 - [95] Interesting post, Eddz. My advice? Find two people in IAC who can make a decision. Count and another ISS person get with them on TS and talk very blunty about options. So long as no one lets their egos get in the way, I'd be willing to bet they could solve this whole thing in 10 mintues and come up with a solution that actually works. - Fight the Darkness!
Excesse The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.23 01:50:00 - [96] Why should IAC call this whole shebang off now? Seems to me they have plenty to gain from the conflict now that the situation has changed.
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2006.12.23 01:54:00 - [97] Originally by: Excesse Why should IAC call this whole shebang off now? Seems to me they have plenty to gain from the conflict now that the situation has changed. Better yet, having 2 CEO's of enemy corporations (MC + KIA) ask for a peace-deal can easily be interpreted as a sign of weakness by IAC.
Great Infiltrator Amarr The Bothan Network	Posted - 2006.12.23 01:58:00 - [98] Originally by: Excesse Why should IAC call this whole shebang off now? Seems to me they have plenty to gain from the conflict now that the situation has changed. Unless you can take back the station very quickly, then you are going to regret saying that.
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.23 02:16:00 - [99] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Raem Civrie I believe some annoyances were over ISS people being ***s on our market. You know, 1m isk shuttles, mineral sell traps, etc. But don't take my word for it; I'm not "in the know" when it comes to our carebearing stuffs. I agree thats annoying, and people do it, and theres really nothing you can do to stop people doing it (as they can just use a trade alt). But is that really a good reason to go to war? I think we both know its not. No, but prolonged activity of that kind is what gets people *ed off enough that when the vote FOR war finally comes along, they press "YARR" and jump into their battleships marked for pwn. This war was, at least in part, brought on by a whole lot of "little" things, things that by themselves were not sufficient casus belli, but together made alot of IAC grind their teeth. ---- Marginis and Tycho, sitting in a tree, camped in by fifteen hundred IAC*
Great Infiltrator Amarr The Bothan Network	Posted - 2006.12.23 02:20:00 - [100] Originally by: Raem Civrie Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Raem Civrie I believe some annoyances were over ISS people being ***s on our market. You know, 1m isk shuttles, mineral sell traps, etc. But don't take my word for it; I'm not "in the know" when it comes to our carebearing stuffs. I agree thats annoying, and people do it, and theres really nothing you can do to stop people doing it (as they can just use a trade alt). But is that really a good reason to go to war? I think we both know its not. No, but prolonged activity of that kind is what gets people **ed off enough that when the vote FOR war finally comes along, they press "YARR" and jump into their battleships marked for pwn. This war was, at least in part, brought on by a whole lot of "little" things, things that by themselves were not sufficient casus belli, but together made alot of IAC grind their teeth. So you used a military solution to solve an economic problem? Sounds like a familiar war.
nickky01 The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.23 02:31:00 - [101] Originally by: Great Infiltrator Originally by: Raem Civrie Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Raem Civrie I believe some annoyances were over ISS people being ***s on our market. You know, 1m isk shuttles, mineral sell traps, etc. But don't take my word for it; I'm not "in the know" when it comes to our carebearing stuffs. I agree thats annoying, and people do it, and theres really nothing you can do to stop people doing it (as they can just use a trade alt). But is that really a good reason to go to war? I think we both know its not. No, but prolonged activity of that kind is what gets people **ed off enough that when the vote FOR war finally comes along, they press "YARR" and jump into their battleships marked for pwn. This war was, at least in part, brought on by a whole lot of "little" things, things that by themselves were not sufficient casus belli, but together made alot of IAC grind their teeth. So you used a military solution to solve an economic problem? Sounds like a familiar war. usa! usa! usa! bud light > everything else US marines > everything else todays forum postings > everything else southern diplomacy > everything else zomgzomgzomg and i'm not even drunk yet \o/ \o/
Layla Currie Followers Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.23 05:37:00 - [102] for mercenaries who supposably get "paid" to go to war (i know it's silly to assume mc are true mercs but whatev i'll roll with it) you guys are sure asking for your business to dry up. Peace is for the weak, i know mc are missing their roids but seriously this isn't the north. We handle our problems like men, by shoving a gun down your opponents throat and blowing his insides against the wall.
TGbullet Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.23 05:59:00 - [103] Edited by: TGbullet on 23/12/2006 06:00:18 Originally by: HatePeace LoveWar Edited by: HatePeace LoveWar on 22/12/2006 11:52:05 read your post and saw you were fighting IAC. Chill eddz, im sure u can forgive me for assuming you were on IAC's side after your recent antics on here with regards LV and RA/GOON. Merc or not, you come across too biased. No doubt, chill bro
FowlPlayChiken Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.23 06:13:00 - [104] Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Smoking Mirror IAC didn't give up. They got beaten. Their invasion of ISS space was repelled in under two days. If IAC persists in this kind of Alliance-level suicide, expect more of the same. Seriously, are there any grownups left over there to even talk to? Make your deal and end this foolishness. Invasions start with poses, not gank squads. Does this mean that SoD have been invading ISS space for the best part of a year? Sure, they were put on the back foot when 5+ alliances decided to blob their closest outpost; name an alliance that WOULDNT. As for MC / ISS attacking the other systems, I think you'll find all posses that were placed into reinforced have come out and been boosted back above 50% shields, leaving the systems secure. Since LV (at least) has pulled back, the numbers are slightly fairer towards IAC now especially with their new allies. Interesting how the pleas for a deal to be made come at the same time as it starts looking a little better for IAC As for -A-... they'd probably be much better neighbors than ISS ever were As for alliance level suicide, this has been discussed before. The majority of IAC (as far as I know) stand behind the decisions of their leaders, and are having fun (should be having more of it now the numbers are better). funny you guys keep saying that. you attacked on a monday. This was because you wanted to gain control of the pipeline by thursday when you began moving pos into zxic. You dont shoot pos on mondays. you want them to come out of reinforced on the weekend, so you shoot them thursday evening/friday morning. You dont try to place your own pos in a system writhing with hostile enemy and fighter drones. You subdue them first, keep them from undocking, and the put up POS unapposed. just good tactical sense. whether this was what you were planning or not, a smart tactician would do exactly this, and thus why count asked your intentions I bet. by not answering definitively, but rather in a vague fashion which easily SEEMS to indicate a strike on ISS stations, you have dug your own grave, so to speak. Additionally, your common membership (all of them) were all making comments about iac taking iss stations frm them, expansion, and new names for the iss stations. Obviously, anyone who ignores such blatent threats from an enemy based 1j away, would be an ostrich sticking its head in the sand. Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.23 07:15:00 - [105] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 23/12/2006 07:15:01 Are we still beating a dead horse about who, what and when? Lets move on. More interesting politics going on right now. I'd rather read tinfol hattery about the new policies then speculation from people who are not in either alliance. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Halafian The Graduates	Posted - 2006.12.23 07:28:00 - [106] Edited by: Halafian on 23/12/2006 07:29:02 I would like to hear more about "market pvp" and how the high price of shuttles drove IAC to these desperate measures.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.23 07:44:00 - [107] Originally by: Miss Overlord this is really an interesting one wonder where CVA and a couple of others sit as wel CVA is not directly involved in this conflict. We are involved in as much as we are at war (for over three years now) with the Minmatar terrorist Ushra'Khan alliance who have given ISS support - but as it stands ISS remains neutral to us. Funny thing is since this conflict started we have had VETO in R3 shooting us (albeit only once), LV has also popped in and shot at us with with a mothership (albeit briefly) and MC helped the Minmatars recharge the shields of a terrorist POS we had put into reinforced. Hwever, on the other side of the coin AAA (IAC's new ally or maybe it's better to say ISS's new enemy) has been pirating in our space today killing some CVA and neutrals (and being killed in return)... Interesting times Any peace agreement is down to IAC/ISS to negotiate. With my personal (non-CVA hat) on I would suggest that this is something both sides could consider. We know IAC and they will not backdown even if their Outposts are removed. While ISS can always pay enough people to defend their Outposts they cannot protect all their 'average' playerbase in 0.0 and particularly in Empire. When CVA declared war on ISS a few months back for planning to put an Outpost in our claimed space we killed a huge amount (over 100) ISS ships (mainly in Empire) with minimal losses (under a handful). A protracted war would not be good for business and therefore not good for ISS. They need an exit strategy and simply taking IAC's Outposts doesn't provide them with one - in fact it just gives IAC more reasons to continue attacking them. On the other hand IAC have also lost a lot in this conflict and could lose a lot more. I don't doubt that IAC have the fanaticism to continue to shoot ISS even if they lose their Outposts - but it will be a high cost to pay. Personally, and again I must stress I am not talking for the CVA, I would suggest that ISS would be wise to come to some agreement with IAC and that IAC should consider any such proposal carefully... ------------------------------ Blog's back - for now Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.23 10:56:00 - [108] Originally by: Halafian Edited by: Halafian on 23/12/2006 07:29:02 I would like to hear more about "market pvp" and how the high price of shuttles drove IAC to these desperate measures. Hey way to look like a fool by taking a simple example and making it into 'the reason of the war.' Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
patteSatan Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.23 11:21:00 - [109] Originally by: Raem Civrie Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Raem Civrie I believe some annoyances were over ISS people being ***s on our market. You know, 1m isk shuttles, mineral sell traps, etc. But don't take my word for it; I'm not "in the know" when it comes to our carebearing stuffs. I agree thats annoying, and people do it, and theres really nothing you can do to stop people doing it (as they can just use a trade alt). But is that really a good reason to go to war? I think we both know its not. No, but prolonged activity of that kind is what gets people **ed off enough that when the vote FOR war finally comes along, they press "YARR" and jump into their battleships marked for pwn. This war was, at least in part, brought on by a whole lot of "little" things, things that by themselves were not sufficient casus belli, but together made alot of IAC grind their teeth. I grinded my teath, then left I have killed iss after that, was fun. Fowl, you disgust me /me kicks his celtic-officer tag away
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.23 11:47:00 - [110] Edited by: Del369 on 23/12/2006 11:48:02 about the market pvp, shuttles for a mil thing, if you dont want something scrutinized you shouldnt have gone down that route any way, besides i remember shuttles on sale for a "lot" and it wasn't iss selling them, it wasnt me either, but i know who it was, and all i can say there is nuff said i can understand why the bad feeling came about, as someone said in a different thread, "it all started with a little seed planted 8 (?) months ago that has now blossomed into a beautiful flower" right Raid ? Originally by: Hardin Originally by: Miss Overlord this is really an interesting one wonder where CVA and a couple of others sit as wel CVA is not directly involved in this conflict. We are involved in as much as we are at war (for over three years now) with the Minmatar terrorist Ushra'Khan alliance who have given ISS support - but as it stands ISS remains neutral to us. Funny thing is since this conflict started we have had VETO in R3 shooting us (albeit only once), LV has also popped in and shot at us with with a mothership (albeit briefly) and MC helped the Minmatars recharge the shields of a terrorist POS we had put into reinforced. Hwever, on the other side of the coin AAA (IAC's new ally or maybe it's better to say ISS's new enemy) has been pirating in our space today killing some CVA and neutrals (and being killed in return)... Interesting times Any peace agreement is down to IAC/ISS to negotiate. With my personal (non-CVA hat) on I would suggest that this is something both sides could consider. We know IAC and they will not backdown even if their Outposts are removed. While ISS can always pay enough people to defend their Outposts they cannot protect all their 'average' playerbase in 0.0 and particularly in Empire. When CVA declared war on ISS a few months back for planning to put an Outpost in our claimed space we killed a huge amount (over 100) ISS ships (mainly in Empire) with minimal losses (under a handful). A protracted war would not be good for business and therefore not good for ISS. They need an exit strategy and simply taking IAC's Outposts doesn't provide them with one - in fact it just gives IAC more reasons to continue attacking them. On the other hand IAC have also lost a lot in this conflict and could lose a lot more. I don't doubt that IAC have the fanaticism to continue to shoot ISS even if they lose their Outposts - but it will be a high cost to pay. Personally, and again I must stress I am not talking for the CVA, I would suggest that ISS would be wise to come to some agreement with IAC and that IAC should consider any such proposal carefully... Bingo Hardin, you've hit the nail on the head. I was going to say something similar towards iss a few days ago, but everyone has been so busy strutting round like pea**s dripping all those male ego's all over the place, it's enough to make my inner * spin in her grave i tell ya eeuuuww it's kinda ironic how fast the tables can turn though eh. and iac werent going for the stations, but now ? who knows. i dont think its nesassarily the wisest thing they can do, but just like the count wanted iac grovelling in the gimp mask, maybe its time he considered a bit of grovelling to iac to resolve the situation. i mean you can ramble on about this forever, but the ultimate question is, does either side posess the maturity to resolve this conflict amicably for both sides ? my inner lezbo has some serious doubts Originally by:** Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.23 11:49:00 - [111] Edited by: Del369 on 23/12/2006 11:50:37 damn dbl posting wtfpwnd stoopid forums Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Ortho Darwinius Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.23 11:58:00 - [112] Originally by: Hardin Personally, and again I must stress I am not talking for the CVA, I would suggest that ISS would be wise to come to some agreement with IAC and that IAC should consider any such proposal carefully... What started as a little good old-fashioned 'pew pew' from IAC's side, has turned into a war of extermination by ISS. Their first "peace proposal" (the hand over of all IAC outposts to ISS and the removal of our entire fleet to some distant & harmless location in space ) revealed that they were in it to destroy us permanently. So we're basically fighting for survival here. Of course now that the situation has changed, ISS (i.e. Butter Dog and other propagandists) are trying to put a different spin on it, as if they we're only after F4. However from where I'm standing it seems we ain't buying that. We know what this war is about. And it looks to me like a very large fraction of IAC are prepared to wage this war a very, very long time. I mean I sure don't play EVE to make isk, I play it for fun. And a long lasting war (maybe six months, maybe more) with a neighbor like ISS sounds like a lot of fun. Nothing personal here, it's just good times ahead. However if ISS - as a profit based industrial alliance, that's all about making money - isn't looking for a war of attrition, they should make us a peace proposal that is a) something that IAC might actually accept and b) so generous, that it could restore the good will between our two alliances. They way things are going, I'm quite sceptic though. ISS has been bragging about their deep pockets and how they can easily afford to hire MC and other merc corps for months on end. I guess now it's time to put your money where your mouth is. Anyway, no matter how things turn out, I'm 100% honoured to fly under IAC colors (amazing bunch of people). And I could not care less "who started it"...
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.23 12:18:00 - [113] Originally by: Excesse Why should IAC call this whole shebang off now? Seems to me they have plenty to gain from the conflict now that the situation has changed. Whats changed, exactly? They lost an outpost. AAA turned up wanting to fight MC/LV cap fleet head on. When that didnt happen, AAA logged back in the next day and left. They were looking for a fight. IAC are weaker now than when the war started, I don't think anyone is denying that. They've lost a lot of credibility too, and even old allies like No Quarter are saying they don't want anything to do with them now. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Abn Matar Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.23 12:39:00 - [114] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Excesse Why should IAC call this whole shebang off now? Seems to me they have plenty to gain from the conflict now that the situation has changed. Whats changed, exactly? They lost an outpost. AAA turned up wanting to fight MC/LV cap fleet head on. When that didnt happen, AAA logged back in the next day and left. They were looking for a fight. IAC are weaker now than when the war started, I don't think anyone is denying that. They've lost a lot of credibility too, and even old allies like No Quarter are saying they don't want anything to do with them now. lol, man.... thats really hard, your spot on posts make me shiver... --------------------------------------------------
Hermia HIVE	Posted - 2006.12.23 13:16:00 - [115] Originally by: Ortho Darwinius Originally by: Hardin Personally, and again I must stress I am not talking for the CVA, I would suggest that ISS would be wise to come to some agreement with IAC and that IAC should consider any such proposal carefully... What started as a little good old-fashioned 'pew pew' from IAC's side, has turned into a war of extermination by ISS. Their first "peace proposal" (the hand over of all IAC outposts to ISS and the removal of our entire fleet to some distant & harmless location in space ) revealed that they were in it to destroy us permanently. So we're basically fighting for survival here. Of course now that the situation has changed, ISS (i.e. Butter Dog and other propagandists) are trying to put a different spin on it, as if they we're only after F4. However from where I'm standing it seems we ain't buying that. We know what this war is about. And it looks to me like a very large fraction of IAC are prepared to wage this war a very, very long time. yeah, what has really changed? your confidence in AAA is misplaced, be under no illusions, your not getting there full strength. IAC needs to solve this peacefully.
Frools The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.23 13:31:00 - [116] Originally by: Butter Dog I agree thats annoying, and people do it, and theres really nothing you can do to stop people doing it (as they can just use a trade alt). But is that really a good reason to go to war? I think we both know its not. It (among other things) is what caused Huzzah to pull ISS' blue standings a long while ago, ISS are **ty **ty neighbours ISS basically have/had 3 main neighbours in catch: HF, IAC and CVA ALL of these entities have at some point pulled blue standings and in the case of IAC and CVA have had an all out POS war (although CVA vs ISS was very brief), i suspect the only reason huzzah didnt set ISS red is because we had quite enough reds back then although there was still a lot of support for making ISS red rather than just neutral and not letting them in our space At least with neighbours like FIX and AAA you know where you stand, not so with ISS
Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.23 13:38:00 - [117] Originally by: Hermia your confidence in AAA is misplaced, be under no illusions, your not getting there full strength. Attack more POS, and we`ll see what is exactly misplaced. Originally by: Hermia IAC needs to solve this peacefully. Wow - game for you.
DHB FooFighter FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.23 14:17:00 - [118] Originally by: Hermia IAC needs to solve this peacefully. Where the hell is the fun in that? You must be from the north, bloody NAP fanatics. MC/FIX/Veto may have taken 1 station, while ISS chearleaders squealed "yay team" from POS's, doesn't change anything. --------------------------------------------
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.23 14:20:00 - [119] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Excesse Why should IAC call this whole shebang off now? Seems to me they have plenty to gain from the conflict now that the situation has changed. Whats changed, exactly? They lost an outpost. AAA turned up wanting to fight MC/LV cap fleet head on. When that didnt happen, AAA logged back in the next day and left. They were looking for a fight. IAC are weaker now than when the war started, I don't think anyone is denying that. They've lost a lot of credibility too, and even old allies like No Quarter are saying they don't want anything to do with them now. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
nickky01 The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.23 14:23:00 - [120] Originally by: DHB FooFighter while ISS chearleaders squealed "yay team" from POS's, doesn't change anything. just lol

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