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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
639
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Posted - 2015.10.02 17:09:05 -
[1] - Quote
Hello all.
So I'm CCP RedDawn on Team Space Glitter and a while ago I had some spare time to make some small changes to improve the exploration mini sites. Some of the changes were received well, others not. So, due to my own love for exploration, I've taken some time out again from our normal release schedule to make some more improvements to Data sites in conjunction with feedback from the CSM.
So for your perusal, I'll list the proposed changes to data sites now.
* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites) * Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites. * Introduced the higher tiered (higher value) Cosmos site building materials to all class wormhole Data sites. (C1 to C6) * Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables. * All Ghost and Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module. * The Guristas Research and Trade Hub structure within Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now requires a successful hack to unlock. * Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc)
The intention of this change is to hopefully boost the overall value of all Data sites, increase the manufacturing of Storyline modules, increase the demand for Cosmos site blueprints and increase the value of the most commonly dropped building materials.
Feel free to throw your thoughts, concerns and ideas at me here!
Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Team Space Glitter
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Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
557
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Posted - 2015.10.02 17:27:36 -
[2] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Hello all. So I'm CCP RedDawn on Team Space Glitter and a while ago I had some spare time to make some small changes to improve the exploration mini sites. Some of the changes were received well, others not. So, due to my own love for exploration, I've taken some time out again from our normal release schedule to make some more improvements to Data sites in conjunction with feedback from the CSM. So for your perusal, I'll list the proposed changes to data sites now. * Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites) * Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites. * Introduced the higher tiered (higher value) Cosmos site building materials to all class wormhole Data sites. (C1 to C6) * Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables. * All Ghost and Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module. * The Guristas Research and Trade Hub structure within Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now requires a successful hack to unlock. * Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc) The intention of this change is to hopefully boost the overall value of all Data sites, increase the manufacturing of Storyline modules, increase the demand for Cosmos site blueprints and increase the value of the most commonly dropped building materials. Feel free to throw your thoughts, concerns and ideas at me here! Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Interesting. Like the cosmos direction.
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Yadaryon Vondawn
Alius Itineris Virtus
30
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Posted - 2015.10.02 17:47:06 -
[3] - Quote
Will there ever be use of the high tech items that have dropped for so long? |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
361
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:02:01 -
[4] - Quote
Hi CCP RedDawn,
I am happy to see Team Space Glitter taking another pass at making Data Sites more attractive to explorers. I was happy with a lot of the changes made in the last pass, especially the item m3 resizing and quality of life improvements.
Here is a fairly large post I made back in May regarding the current problems with the site loot, and some potential solutions. Please take a read through it, and the linked Reddit thread:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5738886#post5738886
Since the COSMOS items were added to Data sites, I've only got ONE loot drop from them - for the longest time I thought it was bugged, but I guess the drop rate is just that low. I'm glad the drop rate is being increased, and higher tier items added. I have a ton of COSMOS item blueprints from Sleeper Cache sites that it is almost impossible to find the building materials for.
Some other feedback:
- I'm glad to see COSMOS items being added to Wormhole Data Sites - currently there is nothing that drops in them worth hacking, so this is a creative solution to add some value to them.
- Switching Covert and Besieged Ghost Sites to using Data Analyzers instead of Relic Analyzers adds no value to the Faction Data Sites.
- The worthless "non rig related" blueprints are still worthless, even if they will now only drop in Data sites. That doesn't add value to the Data sites. Especially the Target Spectrum Breaker, Reactive Armor Hardener, and MJD BPCs. I have cans full of these that aren't worth building, and in a lot of cases, I don't even bother picking them up anymore. Reducing their drop rate isn't going to make them more valuable.
- Halving the drop rate of the building materials (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc) makes no difference if there is still nothing we can build with them. Because Interfaces were removed from the game when Invention was simplified, the only thing they can be used for is some COSMOS items. Is Team Space Glitter looking at alternate uses for these materials?
- This goes double for the "High-Tech" introduced materials, as they have ZERO manufacturing uses. Are their plans to introduce uses for these in game, or will they remain flavor items only?
- What are your plans for replacing the Faction POS Tower and Module BPCs when we make the transition from POS to Citadels? These BPCs are a fairly decent rare loot drop, but since it was announced there will be no specific faction Citadels, how are these going to be compensated for?
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Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
1034
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:02:20 -
[5] - Quote
Muahhaha!
Aww yisss
Member of CSMX - CSMX Weekly Updates
Member of CSM9
Low Sec Lifestyle - An Eve Blog
@Sugar_Kyle
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Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:04:28 -
[6] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: * All Ghost and Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module. * The Guristas Research and Trade Hub structure within Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now requires a successful hack to unlock.
Ghost sites need a Analyzer already. Besieged Sites: Referring to LS only - you need a specialised fit that is able to tank high omni dps and also do high dps in order to minimize the exposure time in a hostile environment. Adding the need for an analyzer will only make them more a gank magnet than today. Warp in cloaked, wait until rats are done and the explorer is tied up with the mini game, uncloak, tackle, kill.
What is the idea behind this change?
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
521
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:07:16 -
[7] - Quote
Looks like a nice update to sites, though it is hard to give really good feedback without knowing the drop rates/tables. Data sites definitely needed some love, thank you!
- Than |
Helo Dhals
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
4
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:08:30 -
[8] - Quote
As the owner of many storyline module BPCs, making the materials cheaper and more plentiful doesn't make me want to build the modules. Their price will drop as soon as the materials become more affordable. Making the modules have some sort of advantage (aside from just fitting) over meta 4/t2/faction is what would make me want to run the BPCs. Currently the storyline modules are inferior to T2 in every stat aside from fitting. |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
361
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:11:17 -
[9] - Quote
Helo Dhals wrote:As the owner of many storyline module BPCs, making the materials cheaper and more plentiful doesn't make me want to build the modules. Their price will drop as soon as the materials become more affordable. Making the modules have some sort of advantage (aside from just fitting) over meta 4/t2/faction is what would make me want to run the BPCs. Currently the storyline modules are inferior to T2 in every stat aside from fitting.
These are gradually being rebalanced as part of Module Tiercide. I'd make sure to give feedback as these passes continue. |
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
336
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:11:40 -
[10] - Quote
I like the direction, but unfortunately I think your improvements are mostly limited by the fact that most storyline items are worthless. Combined with a proper rebalancing of them this would be fantastic, but AFAIK most BPCs and items used in storyline stuff arent used much and their value is mainly to collectors.
WH sites stem from a different problem, and if you want to improve the value of them ( which I hope you do) than the state of RE supply and demand needs to be looked at. Simply put, the supply is way too high, and thus the items value is so low that i know most Wormholers flat out ignore the cans. We run data sites for the sleepers and salvage but i dont think anyone bothers with the cans anymore.
Couple things I would like to see: 1. Make WH cans explode after 2 failed attempts, this rewards skilled players, and also helps decrease the supply. Cans in K space already do this so I don't understand why WH ones dont. 2. Reduce the amount of stuff dropped, thus reducing supply and increasing their value.
The Wormhole Kid
Event Organizer of EVE New England
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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
330
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:20:25 -
[11] - Quote
As a collector of and builder of storyline stuff, I'm happy about this change :) |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
361
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:25:06 -
[12] - Quote
ExookiZ
Do you think adding can failures would reduce the supply for Ancient Relics and Talocan Wrecks enough to increase the prices for those T3 ship and subsystem BPCs? They are already subject to failure rates during invention attempts. This only affects Sleeper Relic Sites. The whole devaluing here has been going on for a while, but mostly because of the industry changes to Reverse Engineering. Is there more that can be done to correct this?
Sleeper Data Site cans only have generic Datacores in them, so there definitely needs to be more value added. The COSMOS items is an interesting idea, but is the potential of a rare drop enough to get wormholers to spend time hacking the cans, or will they just do it to get the site to despawn? |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
411
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:30:56 -
[13] - Quote
ExookiZ wrote:2. Reduce the amount of stuff dropped, thus reducing supply and increasing their value.
This won't actually make a site more valuable. If you decrease the amount while increasing the value, you're sitting at a static point. The only ones who would benefit from such a change are the people who have a significant amount of the goods stored up already.
As for the overall changes themselves, I like that Data sites are getting a bit of reworking, but I'm not sure it'll be what makes me bother to fit a Data Analyzer again when I'm out exploring. The skillbooks are generally low-value, the non-rig BPC's that drop from Relic sites are mostly without value (and most are being sold below mineral cost, already), Cosmos / Storyline mods need some serious TLC from the tierecide project before they'll be of any real value, and halving the amount of the building materials will return to a similar equilibrium over the course of time (instead of 20 worth 500 ISK each, you'll get 10 worth 1000 ISK each).
I can see that the changes will increase the value of Data sites to a small degree, but it seems like it's only going to increase the amount of low-value goods you get with very occasional high-value goods. That will still struggle to compete with Relic sites (especially Sansha sites), where you get a much smoother (and often still higher) average.
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naed21
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
37
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:39:57 -
[14] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:ExookiZ
Do you think adding can failures would reduce the supply for Ancient Relics and Talocan Wrecks enough to increase the prices for those T3 ship and subsystem BPCs? They are already subject to failure rates during invention attempts. This only affects Sleeper Relic Sites. The whole devaluing here has been going on for a while, but mostly because of the industry changes to Reverse Engineering. Is there more that can be done to correct this?
Sleeper Data Site cans only have generic Datacores in them, so there definitely needs to be more value added. The COSMOS items is an interesting idea, but is the potential of a rare drop enough to get wormholers to spend time hacking the cans, or will they just do it to get the site to despawn?
iirc, they doubled the drop rate in the odyssey expansion with the can ejections. But when they reverted the can spew they never decreased the drop rate and thus now every part of T3 production is laughabily cheap until you hit nanoribbons.
It was nice when T3Ds came out and we had a reason to go get the talocan hulls, but we still didn't have a reason to bother with the rest of the cans. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
1953
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:45:41 -
[15] - Quote
Things like Electric Conduits or Armor Blocks are garbage. High-Tech items are also garbage.
What someone a couple of months ago suggested would be construction materials for pirate faction ships and modules. Pirate Faction production materials already exist as dead database entries and it could have been really interesting to see these reintroduced as components for the pirate asset production. Instead, however, we got the utterly useless High-tech garbage that's just cluttering the hangars, in case you collected them at all.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Doyle Aldurad
Stellar Winds Consortium
10
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:53:28 -
[16] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:
* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites)
Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Please do NOT butcher Relic sites to make data sites better. Find them something new and unique. Making Relic sites suck more because you hope to make data sites suck less is not a solution.
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
361
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:56:17 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:iirc, they doubled the drop rate in the odyssey expansion with the can ejections. But when they reverted the can spew they never decreased the drop rate and thus now every part of T3 production is laughabily cheap until you hit nanoribbons.
It was nice when T3Ds came out and we had a reason to go get the talocan hulls, but we still didn't have a reason to bother with the rest of the cans.
Loot drop was readjusted to 70% of value after Odyssey when the loot spew was removed. I don't know for sure if this included Ancient Relic drops from Sleeper Data Sites, or the chance of a Talocan Wreck spawn.
I think more of that was due to the Crius expansion changing Reverse Engineering to let you pick the type of subsystem you wanted to invent. Previously it was a crap shoot and you got a random subsystem bpc, so on top of the failure chance, there were a lot of unwanted subsystem bpcs, so there was more rarity for the popular ones. |
Xerxes Fehrnah
Cherokee Mining Company
34
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:57:11 -
[18] - Quote
I do not understand why relic and data sites ever dropped differing levels of loot. One is not easier than the other. They have the exact same risk. The only reason there seems to be to have both is to create a fitting or choice challenge for exploration ships.
Then also I would like to know why Sansha relic sites drop so much more valuable loot? Why does CCP not balance it out so all region sites drop the same loot?
Is there some reason you want us to explore in Stain? |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
641
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:02:39 -
[19] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback so far, some good points raised overall.
To answer some reoccurring questions:
* Storyline modules should have a tiericide pass on them to make them worthwhile, however, this is at least a step in the right direction to give you 'some' more options in ship fitting (plus, is it not better that these items at least start getting more traction?) * High Tech items are on my list to make useful * Putting the requirement for the Data Analyzer on the Ghost and Besieged sites increases the value of the module. (Currently both Analyser modules are accepted in these sites and it's not consistent with any other sites) * I'm making a plan to look into the use of the most commonly dropped loot * The skill books and non rig-related blueprints will still be 'worthless' for a while, but over the long haul I will expect to see an increase eventually. (agreed though, this change doesn't fix this issue immediately) * The Reverse Engineering supply and demand is something I will add to my personal backlog
That's it for now, I'll be watching.
CCP RedDawn
Team Space Glitter
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
641
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:04:22 -
[20] - Quote
Doyle Aldurad wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:
* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites)
Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Please do NOT butcher Relic sites to make data sites better. Find them something new and unique. Making Relic sites suck more because you hope to make data sites suck less is not a solution.
Relic sites still have all their unique loot, all I've done is removed their less valuable drops which also already currently drop in Data sites.
No need to worry.
Team Space Glitter
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1830
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:12:43 -
[21] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:Helo Dhals wrote:As the owner of many storyline module BPCs, making the materials cheaper and more plentiful doesn't make me want to build the modules. Their price will drop as soon as the materials become more affordable. Making the modules have some sort of advantage (aside from just fitting) over meta 4/t2/faction is what would make me want to run the BPCs. Currently the storyline modules are inferior to T2 in every stat aside from fitting. These are gradually being rebalanced as part of Module Tiercide. I'd make sure to give feedback as these passes continue. I hope so, storyline mods are in general a really weird place. I'm really interested to see where they go from here.
the digital booster rockets MWDs were very interesting for a while thanks to the fitting reqs, but now the yt-8 MWDs have the same fitting stats, that said the digital booster microwarpdives still retain advantages, but if build components were more common I wonder where the price would move. I used to trade in and build these, and I sold off all my stuff because i worried about it retaining value, plus the sleeper profound research notes were getting hard to get.
also many storyline items are just completely inferior, either fitting wise or stats wise to similar cost faction mods. A lot of the damage mods are like that, worse stats than t2, might save a little on cpu, but use more cpu and have far worse stats than faction mods.
then there are the good mods, like the 'radical' damge control which saves the most on CPU and has pretty good stats. Or the Executive damps which are the strongest in game, with similar fitting/cap use to the muon damps. Smokescreen cloak is pretty good too, but with most ships having a 100% cloak cpu use with skills, and people in general having better skills these days its price isn't where it use to be.
I also have to wonder how many storyline BPCs are just sitting out there in hangars somewhere? I don't even remember what I did with mine after I ran cosmos. probably just dumped in jita or gave away. I do have a few randomly scattered around from looting ship kills. Also the relationships between various item stats, and build component drop rates would be interesting to look into.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Hendrink Collie
Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation.
70
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:13:18 -
[22] - Quote
As someone that does a healthy bit of exploration and hacking, I'm very excited about these changes. Finally I can get the rare mats for my COSMOS blueprints sitting about. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition.
1819
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:30:35 -
[23] - Quote
Have you considered fixing the droprates for worthless modules? In many cases, they aren't undesirable, there is just way too many of them available. |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
363
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:42:51 -
[24] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Have you considered fixing the droprates for worthless modules? In many cases, they aren't undesirable, there is just way too many of them available.
For things like the Anciliary Shield/Armor Boosters this might work.
For stuff like the Reactive Armor Hardener or Target Spectrum Breaker, there isn't enough demand for them for it to make a difference.
We might see more MJD demand from the recent Battlecruiser rebalance.
Adjusting drop rate won't fix the problem of manufacturers selling the product at below material component cost though. I guess you can't fix stupid? |
Zappity
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
2479
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:58:52 -
[25] - Quote
Good start, especially reducing drop rates.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition.
1819
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:03:18 -
[26] - Quote
a big part of things selling below material cost is overproduction and people trying to get rid of excess stuff.
pure idiots are a small part of the builders population. they don't matter in many healthy markets.
a reduced droprate (and maybe removal of 50 run BPCs for some items) can bring even reactive armor hardeners and target spectrum breakers in profitable territory. |
Arec Bardwin
1870
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:16:24 -
[27] - Quote
I'm glad I bought up all those comos BPCs for cheap over the years |
SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
160
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:28:11 -
[28] - Quote
As long as nobody touches all the other ways datacores can be acquired, all you're doing is shuffling trash from one pile to the other. Keep in mind how stark the value difference is between relic and data sites.
More importantly, can you shift the minimum reward value away from 0? Really tired of opening hard cans with nothing or carbon in it. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1830
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:32:15 -
[29] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:I'm glad I bought up all those comos BPCs for cheap over the years no comment
@ChainsawPlankto
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William Weatherwax
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
16
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:36:05 -
[30] - Quote
Thanks for taking care of this, very excited! |
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