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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
639
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Posted - 2015.10.02 17:09:05 -
[1] - Quote
Hello all.
So I'm CCP RedDawn on Team Space Glitter and a while ago I had some spare time to make some small changes to improve the exploration mini sites. Some of the changes were received well, others not. So, due to my own love for exploration, I've taken some time out again from our normal release schedule to make some more improvements to Data sites in conjunction with feedback from the CSM.
So for your perusal, I'll list the proposed changes to data sites now.
* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites) * Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites. * Introduced the higher tiered (higher value) Cosmos site building materials to all class wormhole Data sites. (C1 to C6) * Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables. * All Ghost and Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module. * The Guristas Research and Trade Hub structure within Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now requires a successful hack to unlock. * Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc)
The intention of this change is to hopefully boost the overall value of all Data sites, increase the manufacturing of Storyline modules, increase the demand for Cosmos site blueprints and increase the value of the most commonly dropped building materials.
Feel free to throw your thoughts, concerns and ideas at me here!
Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Team Space Glitter
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Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
557
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Posted - 2015.10.02 17:27:36 -
[2] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Hello all. So I'm CCP RedDawn on Team Space Glitter and a while ago I had some spare time to make some small changes to improve the exploration mini sites. Some of the changes were received well, others not. So, due to my own love for exploration, I've taken some time out again from our normal release schedule to make some more improvements to Data sites in conjunction with feedback from the CSM. So for your perusal, I'll list the proposed changes to data sites now. * Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites) * Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites. * Introduced the higher tiered (higher value) Cosmos site building materials to all class wormhole Data sites. (C1 to C6) * Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables. * All Ghost and Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module. * The Guristas Research and Trade Hub structure within Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now requires a successful hack to unlock. * Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc) The intention of this change is to hopefully boost the overall value of all Data sites, increase the manufacturing of Storyline modules, increase the demand for Cosmos site blueprints and increase the value of the most commonly dropped building materials. Feel free to throw your thoughts, concerns and ideas at me here! Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Interesting. Like the cosmos direction.
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Yadaryon Vondawn
Alius Itineris Virtus
30
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Posted - 2015.10.02 17:47:06 -
[3] - Quote
Will there ever be use of the high tech items that have dropped for so long? |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
361
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:02:01 -
[4] - Quote
Hi CCP RedDawn,
I am happy to see Team Space Glitter taking another pass at making Data Sites more attractive to explorers. I was happy with a lot of the changes made in the last pass, especially the item m3 resizing and quality of life improvements.
Here is a fairly large post I made back in May regarding the current problems with the site loot, and some potential solutions. Please take a read through it, and the linked Reddit thread:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5738886#post5738886
Since the COSMOS items were added to Data sites, I've only got ONE loot drop from them - for the longest time I thought it was bugged, but I guess the drop rate is just that low. I'm glad the drop rate is being increased, and higher tier items added. I have a ton of COSMOS item blueprints from Sleeper Cache sites that it is almost impossible to find the building materials for.
Some other feedback:
- I'm glad to see COSMOS items being added to Wormhole Data Sites - currently there is nothing that drops in them worth hacking, so this is a creative solution to add some value to them.
- Switching Covert and Besieged Ghost Sites to using Data Analyzers instead of Relic Analyzers adds no value to the Faction Data Sites.
- The worthless "non rig related" blueprints are still worthless, even if they will now only drop in Data sites. That doesn't add value to the Data sites. Especially the Target Spectrum Breaker, Reactive Armor Hardener, and MJD BPCs. I have cans full of these that aren't worth building, and in a lot of cases, I don't even bother picking them up anymore. Reducing their drop rate isn't going to make them more valuable.
- Halving the drop rate of the building materials (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc) makes no difference if there is still nothing we can build with them. Because Interfaces were removed from the game when Invention was simplified, the only thing they can be used for is some COSMOS items. Is Team Space Glitter looking at alternate uses for these materials?
- This goes double for the "High-Tech" introduced materials, as they have ZERO manufacturing uses. Are their plans to introduce uses for these in game, or will they remain flavor items only?
- What are your plans for replacing the Faction POS Tower and Module BPCs when we make the transition from POS to Citadels? These BPCs are a fairly decent rare loot drop, but since it was announced there will be no specific faction Citadels, how are these going to be compensated for?
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Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
1034
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:02:20 -
[5] - Quote
Muahhaha!
Aww yisss
Member of CSMX - CSMX Weekly Updates
Member of CSM9
Low Sec Lifestyle - An Eve Blog
@Sugar_Kyle
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Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:04:28 -
[6] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: * All Ghost and Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module. * The Guristas Research and Trade Hub structure within Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now requires a successful hack to unlock.
Ghost sites need a Analyzer already. Besieged Sites: Referring to LS only - you need a specialised fit that is able to tank high omni dps and also do high dps in order to minimize the exposure time in a hostile environment. Adding the need for an analyzer will only make them more a gank magnet than today. Warp in cloaked, wait until rats are done and the explorer is tied up with the mini game, uncloak, tackle, kill.
What is the idea behind this change?
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
521
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:07:16 -
[7] - Quote
Looks like a nice update to sites, though it is hard to give really good feedback without knowing the drop rates/tables. Data sites definitely needed some love, thank you!
- Than |
Helo Dhals
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
4
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:08:30 -
[8] - Quote
As the owner of many storyline module BPCs, making the materials cheaper and more plentiful doesn't make me want to build the modules. Their price will drop as soon as the materials become more affordable. Making the modules have some sort of advantage (aside from just fitting) over meta 4/t2/faction is what would make me want to run the BPCs. Currently the storyline modules are inferior to T2 in every stat aside from fitting. |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
361
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:11:17 -
[9] - Quote
Helo Dhals wrote:As the owner of many storyline module BPCs, making the materials cheaper and more plentiful doesn't make me want to build the modules. Their price will drop as soon as the materials become more affordable. Making the modules have some sort of advantage (aside from just fitting) over meta 4/t2/faction is what would make me want to run the BPCs. Currently the storyline modules are inferior to T2 in every stat aside from fitting.
These are gradually being rebalanced as part of Module Tiercide. I'd make sure to give feedback as these passes continue. |
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
336
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:11:40 -
[10] - Quote
I like the direction, but unfortunately I think your improvements are mostly limited by the fact that most storyline items are worthless. Combined with a proper rebalancing of them this would be fantastic, but AFAIK most BPCs and items used in storyline stuff arent used much and their value is mainly to collectors.
WH sites stem from a different problem, and if you want to improve the value of them ( which I hope you do) than the state of RE supply and demand needs to be looked at. Simply put, the supply is way too high, and thus the items value is so low that i know most Wormholers flat out ignore the cans. We run data sites for the sleepers and salvage but i dont think anyone bothers with the cans anymore.
Couple things I would like to see: 1. Make WH cans explode after 2 failed attempts, this rewards skilled players, and also helps decrease the supply. Cans in K space already do this so I don't understand why WH ones dont. 2. Reduce the amount of stuff dropped, thus reducing supply and increasing their value.
The Wormhole Kid
Event Organizer of EVE New England
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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
330
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:20:25 -
[11] - Quote
As a collector of and builder of storyline stuff, I'm happy about this change :) |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
361
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:25:06 -
[12] - Quote
ExookiZ
Do you think adding can failures would reduce the supply for Ancient Relics and Talocan Wrecks enough to increase the prices for those T3 ship and subsystem BPCs? They are already subject to failure rates during invention attempts. This only affects Sleeper Relic Sites. The whole devaluing here has been going on for a while, but mostly because of the industry changes to Reverse Engineering. Is there more that can be done to correct this?
Sleeper Data Site cans only have generic Datacores in them, so there definitely needs to be more value added. The COSMOS items is an interesting idea, but is the potential of a rare drop enough to get wormholers to spend time hacking the cans, or will they just do it to get the site to despawn? |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
411
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:30:56 -
[13] - Quote
ExookiZ wrote:2. Reduce the amount of stuff dropped, thus reducing supply and increasing their value.
This won't actually make a site more valuable. If you decrease the amount while increasing the value, you're sitting at a static point. The only ones who would benefit from such a change are the people who have a significant amount of the goods stored up already.
As for the overall changes themselves, I like that Data sites are getting a bit of reworking, but I'm not sure it'll be what makes me bother to fit a Data Analyzer again when I'm out exploring. The skillbooks are generally low-value, the non-rig BPC's that drop from Relic sites are mostly without value (and most are being sold below mineral cost, already), Cosmos / Storyline mods need some serious TLC from the tierecide project before they'll be of any real value, and halving the amount of the building materials will return to a similar equilibrium over the course of time (instead of 20 worth 500 ISK each, you'll get 10 worth 1000 ISK each).
I can see that the changes will increase the value of Data sites to a small degree, but it seems like it's only going to increase the amount of low-value goods you get with very occasional high-value goods. That will still struggle to compete with Relic sites (especially Sansha sites), where you get a much smoother (and often still higher) average.
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naed21
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
37
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:39:57 -
[14] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:ExookiZ
Do you think adding can failures would reduce the supply for Ancient Relics and Talocan Wrecks enough to increase the prices for those T3 ship and subsystem BPCs? They are already subject to failure rates during invention attempts. This only affects Sleeper Relic Sites. The whole devaluing here has been going on for a while, but mostly because of the industry changes to Reverse Engineering. Is there more that can be done to correct this?
Sleeper Data Site cans only have generic Datacores in them, so there definitely needs to be more value added. The COSMOS items is an interesting idea, but is the potential of a rare drop enough to get wormholers to spend time hacking the cans, or will they just do it to get the site to despawn?
iirc, they doubled the drop rate in the odyssey expansion with the can ejections. But when they reverted the can spew they never decreased the drop rate and thus now every part of T3 production is laughabily cheap until you hit nanoribbons.
It was nice when T3Ds came out and we had a reason to go get the talocan hulls, but we still didn't have a reason to bother with the rest of the cans. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
1953
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:45:41 -
[15] - Quote
Things like Electric Conduits or Armor Blocks are garbage. High-Tech items are also garbage.
What someone a couple of months ago suggested would be construction materials for pirate faction ships and modules. Pirate Faction production materials already exist as dead database entries and it could have been really interesting to see these reintroduced as components for the pirate asset production. Instead, however, we got the utterly useless High-tech garbage that's just cluttering the hangars, in case you collected them at all.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Doyle Aldurad
Stellar Winds Consortium
10
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:53:28 -
[16] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:
* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites)
Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Please do NOT butcher Relic sites to make data sites better. Find them something new and unique. Making Relic sites suck more because you hope to make data sites suck less is not a solution.
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
361
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:56:17 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:iirc, they doubled the drop rate in the odyssey expansion with the can ejections. But when they reverted the can spew they never decreased the drop rate and thus now every part of T3 production is laughabily cheap until you hit nanoribbons.
It was nice when T3Ds came out and we had a reason to go get the talocan hulls, but we still didn't have a reason to bother with the rest of the cans.
Loot drop was readjusted to 70% of value after Odyssey when the loot spew was removed. I don't know for sure if this included Ancient Relic drops from Sleeper Data Sites, or the chance of a Talocan Wreck spawn.
I think more of that was due to the Crius expansion changing Reverse Engineering to let you pick the type of subsystem you wanted to invent. Previously it was a crap shoot and you got a random subsystem bpc, so on top of the failure chance, there were a lot of unwanted subsystem bpcs, so there was more rarity for the popular ones. |
Xerxes Fehrnah
Cherokee Mining Company
34
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:57:11 -
[18] - Quote
I do not understand why relic and data sites ever dropped differing levels of loot. One is not easier than the other. They have the exact same risk. The only reason there seems to be to have both is to create a fitting or choice challenge for exploration ships.
Then also I would like to know why Sansha relic sites drop so much more valuable loot? Why does CCP not balance it out so all region sites drop the same loot?
Is there some reason you want us to explore in Stain? |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
641
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:02:39 -
[19] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback so far, some good points raised overall.
To answer some reoccurring questions:
* Storyline modules should have a tiericide pass on them to make them worthwhile, however, this is at least a step in the right direction to give you 'some' more options in ship fitting (plus, is it not better that these items at least start getting more traction?) * High Tech items are on my list to make useful * Putting the requirement for the Data Analyzer on the Ghost and Besieged sites increases the value of the module. (Currently both Analyser modules are accepted in these sites and it's not consistent with any other sites) * I'm making a plan to look into the use of the most commonly dropped loot * The skill books and non rig-related blueprints will still be 'worthless' for a while, but over the long haul I will expect to see an increase eventually. (agreed though, this change doesn't fix this issue immediately) * The Reverse Engineering supply and demand is something I will add to my personal backlog
That's it for now, I'll be watching.
CCP RedDawn
Team Space Glitter
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
641
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:04:22 -
[20] - Quote
Doyle Aldurad wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:
* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites)
Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Please do NOT butcher Relic sites to make data sites better. Find them something new and unique. Making Relic sites suck more because you hope to make data sites suck less is not a solution.
Relic sites still have all their unique loot, all I've done is removed their less valuable drops which also already currently drop in Data sites.
No need to worry.
Team Space Glitter
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1830
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:12:43 -
[21] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:Helo Dhals wrote:As the owner of many storyline module BPCs, making the materials cheaper and more plentiful doesn't make me want to build the modules. Their price will drop as soon as the materials become more affordable. Making the modules have some sort of advantage (aside from just fitting) over meta 4/t2/faction is what would make me want to run the BPCs. Currently the storyline modules are inferior to T2 in every stat aside from fitting. These are gradually being rebalanced as part of Module Tiercide. I'd make sure to give feedback as these passes continue. I hope so, storyline mods are in general a really weird place. I'm really interested to see where they go from here.
the digital booster rockets MWDs were very interesting for a while thanks to the fitting reqs, but now the yt-8 MWDs have the same fitting stats, that said the digital booster microwarpdives still retain advantages, but if build components were more common I wonder where the price would move. I used to trade in and build these, and I sold off all my stuff because i worried about it retaining value, plus the sleeper profound research notes were getting hard to get.
also many storyline items are just completely inferior, either fitting wise or stats wise to similar cost faction mods. A lot of the damage mods are like that, worse stats than t2, might save a little on cpu, but use more cpu and have far worse stats than faction mods.
then there are the good mods, like the 'radical' damge control which saves the most on CPU and has pretty good stats. Or the Executive damps which are the strongest in game, with similar fitting/cap use to the muon damps. Smokescreen cloak is pretty good too, but with most ships having a 100% cloak cpu use with skills, and people in general having better skills these days its price isn't where it use to be.
I also have to wonder how many storyline BPCs are just sitting out there in hangars somewhere? I don't even remember what I did with mine after I ran cosmos. probably just dumped in jita or gave away. I do have a few randomly scattered around from looting ship kills. Also the relationships between various item stats, and build component drop rates would be interesting to look into.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Hendrink Collie
Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation.
70
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:13:18 -
[22] - Quote
As someone that does a healthy bit of exploration and hacking, I'm very excited about these changes. Finally I can get the rare mats for my COSMOS blueprints sitting about. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition.
1819
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:30:35 -
[23] - Quote
Have you considered fixing the droprates for worthless modules? In many cases, they aren't undesirable, there is just way too many of them available. |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
363
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:42:51 -
[24] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Have you considered fixing the droprates for worthless modules? In many cases, they aren't undesirable, there is just way too many of them available.
For things like the Anciliary Shield/Armor Boosters this might work.
For stuff like the Reactive Armor Hardener or Target Spectrum Breaker, there isn't enough demand for them for it to make a difference.
We might see more MJD demand from the recent Battlecruiser rebalance.
Adjusting drop rate won't fix the problem of manufacturers selling the product at below material component cost though. I guess you can't fix stupid? |
Zappity
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
2479
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Posted - 2015.10.02 19:58:52 -
[25] - Quote
Good start, especially reducing drop rates.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition.
1819
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:03:18 -
[26] - Quote
a big part of things selling below material cost is overproduction and people trying to get rid of excess stuff.
pure idiots are a small part of the builders population. they don't matter in many healthy markets.
a reduced droprate (and maybe removal of 50 run BPCs for some items) can bring even reactive armor hardeners and target spectrum breakers in profitable territory. |
Arec Bardwin
1870
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:16:24 -
[27] - Quote
I'm glad I bought up all those comos BPCs for cheap over the years |
SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
160
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:28:11 -
[28] - Quote
As long as nobody touches all the other ways datacores can be acquired, all you're doing is shuffling trash from one pile to the other. Keep in mind how stark the value difference is between relic and data sites.
More importantly, can you shift the minimum reward value away from 0? Really tired of opening hard cans with nothing or carbon in it. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1830
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:32:15 -
[29] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:I'm glad I bought up all those comos BPCs for cheap over the years no comment
@ChainsawPlankto
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William Weatherwax
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
16
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Posted - 2015.10.02 20:36:05 -
[30] - Quote
Thanks for taking care of this, very excited! |
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Jon Illat
I.C.E Initiative
10
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Posted - 2015.10.02 21:10:40 -
[31] - Quote
Data vs Relic for ghost sites, no real difference.
Data analyser for Besieged sites? Please no. As said by others in the thread, they already require a special set up to run safely and successfully, adding yet another requirement to run them will just result in more annoyance and danger.
Quote: Putting the requirement for the Data Analyzer on the Ghost and Besieged sites increases the value of the module. (Currently both Analyser modules are accepted in these sites and it's not consistent with any other sites)
I think you may be confused. Besieged sites do not require any analyser to run, please do not add the requirement for a data analyser for this site. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
375
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Posted - 2015.10.02 21:25:39 -
[32] - Quote
I soo wasted (firiday night) but:
CCP RedDawn wrote:* Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc) CCP blue guy mr. ReDdaWn. This items are worthless, changing drop rate won't make a difference. Weeee
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Callduron
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
628
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Posted - 2015.10.02 22:42:36 -
[33] - Quote
COSMOS materials really need to be sellable on the market.
Usually now when someone loots one of these obcsure items they just leave it in their hangar.
I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/
I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
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DeCubaN Deninard
Eve Minions The-Company
1
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Posted - 2015.10.03 00:13:08 -
[34] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:Muahhaha!
Aww yisss I want to start off with a big thanks to CCP RedDawn, Sugar Kyle and any other people involved with making these changes happen.
I sent Sugar a message at the beginning of March this year asking her is it would be possible to look into Storyline blueprints, Storyline mats and relic and data site drops. Working with Sugar I helped to document some of the problems I saw with exploration and storyline mods. She was able to find a willing dev, <3 CCP RedDawn, to take on looking into my suggestions and making what they could into reality.
I'm so happy to see that I was able to help influence this awesome game and am psyched to see the new roadmap. Thanks again for all the hard work on this! |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
520
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Posted - 2015.10.03 00:32:49 -
[35] - Quote
Very glad to see these changes moving forward. They are hopefully not the only iteration, but I think a good first step. And certainly when POSes die off to new structures, we will probably see some interesting adjustments thereafter.
Regarding the Data Analyzer use for Ghost Sites, this is something I encouraged, along with some of the other changes in here.
I know it's easier to have Ghost sites use both modules, but that easiness feeds into the whole "I only need a Relic Analyzer ever" feeling of exploration. If turrets could fire missiles, nobody would ever equip missile launchers, and if turrets lost that ability, it would feel annoying at first but would make more sense in the long run.
It's also wholly strange in terms of the context of ghost sites -- which are clearly not archaeological in any fashion, but instead are advanced pirate research facilities and data processing centers.
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Lulu Lunette
Blue Aurochs United Systems of Aridia
89
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Posted - 2015.10.03 00:33:32 -
[36] - Quote
Interesting changes - looking forward to it
o7
@lunettelulu7
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
108
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Posted - 2015.10.03 01:55:23 -
[37] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Hello all. * All Ghost and Besieged Covert Research Facility exploration sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module.
This stands out to me as the only bad change, forcing us to use that module. If you make the rewards in Data sites worthwhile, we'll fit it or drop a depot, but making this arbitrary distinction feels out of place.
Apart from that snag, I wanted to say thanks for improving Data sites and COSMOS drops. It's something that has been asked for many times and I'm glad to see it in game at last. |
Ayx Shewma
0scope Goonswarm Federation
77
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Posted - 2015.10.03 03:04:15 -
[38] - Quote
Another vote for making ghost sites Cosmic Signatures. |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
413
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Posted - 2015.10.03 05:17:31 -
[39] - Quote
SpaceSaft wrote:More importantly, can you shift the minimum reward value away from 0? Really tired of opening hard cans with nothing or carbon in it. For what it's worth, I switched out my Data Analyzer for a Cargo Scanner. Scan the cans as I'm coming up to the first one, and if any are junk (or especially simply empty), mark the can and purposely blow it up at the first opportunity. The frustrations with a Red can having trash in it vanished almost immediately after doing so.
Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections.
Once you've made your choice, join the EvE-Scout channel and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
204
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Posted - 2015.10.03 05:22:33 -
[40] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: * Storyline modules should have a tiericide pass on them to make them worthwhile, however, this is at least a step in the right direction to give you 'some' more options in ship fitting (plus, is it not better that these items at least start getting more traction?)
But the tiericide is exactly what's making storyline modules obsolete. Take propmods. The value of storyline propmods was in the low fitting which now can be achieved with cheap compact propmods. There's no point bothering with storylines. Their price have to drop about tenfold to even be considered worth looking at. Meanwhile the most useful storylines currently are arguably cap boosters. For the same low fitting. Once cap boosters get a tiericide pass with a compact version, this advantage is gone. And there's literally no other reason to get storyline cap boosters.
CCP RedDawn wrote: * Putting the requirement for the Data Analyzer on the Ghost and Besieged sites increases the value of the module. (Currently both Analyser modules are accepted in these sites and it's not consistent with any other sites)
Besieged sites DO NOT currently require any module, and requiring hacking for the besieged sites is stupid. First, they give you loot as a payment for you saving them from evil blood-thirst mordus. Second, besieged sites are tough as it is, requiring to squeeze every ounce of performance out of your ship. Having to spare a midslot and, moreover, forcing you into a hacking-bonused hull is bad. Especially on a time-limited site. |
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Dino Zavr
Shadow Owls
50
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 06:09:09 -
[41] - Quote
Dear CCP RedDawn,
Sorry to say this, but I am rather skeptical about COSMOS modules. Their materials are too rare, they require a hell lot of skills to build and they are totally inferior to dedspace modules which are rather common nowadays. So cosmos thingies require a very serious tiersiding to become really demanded. It might be a good idea to create more really shiny COSMOS modules where blue dedspace ones do not exist like shield extenders, inertial stabilizers and such
Can you, please, make expeditions from exploration sites triggered by all cans hacked? The faster this is done then more expedition chance is. This may be nice factor to make decision between cherry-picking and full site cleanup.
Also, please, make partially hacked sites to despawn faster. In my opinion it would be great to implement site lifetime timer starting at first warp in (cloaked or not). At least it will force explorer-hunters to move at least occasionally and scan new signatures instead of sitting semi-AFK in one single site for a whole day waiting for their prey.
Thanks |
voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
393
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 08:08:28 -
[42] - Quote
Good to see you are starting to look at the drop rates of COSMOS materials.
I've done a fair amount of COSMOS building and if the drop rate of some of the super rare drops increases that can only be good for me. I've got a few BPC sitting around and just can't get one or two of the materials despite setting up very high buy orders.
Thanks. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
376
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 09:00:07 -
[43] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: * Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books)
Good
CCP RedDawn wrote:* Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites) Ok, but 90% of BPC are worthless anyway. I would like to see BPC for new structures in data sites. Generally wider spectrum of blueprints.
CCP RedDawn wrote:* Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites. What are 4 tier data site?
CCP RedDawn wrote:* Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables. Do you mean faction materials? Because they don't drop now, I've seen a single one since they were introduced and I don't skip data sites.
As for cosmos. They need a balance pass. For now they are super expensive to build and not worth to buy. They perform as T2 items with lower fittings costs. Market is stuffed with deadspace mods that are better. I don't think above changes will help with them. Cosmos BPC are plenty, now we will have more mats for them, prices may drop to level that nobody will touch them. Good example how system works here are implants BPCs from Ghost sites. Most of cases it's not worth to produce them but to sell materials needed to build them. It's rather there are too many BPCs or too low volume of villard wheels in ghost sites.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Jiro Kobaiashi
Decima Technology
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 14:59:26 -
[44] - Quote
Awsome, all we need now is a good reason to use the storyline modules (lookign at you, guns and reps) |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
658
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 15:06:23 -
[45] - Quote
I've listened and I'll revert the change to require a Data Analyzer for Besieged sites. So no changes will be made to that site.
Team Space Glitter
|
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Stjornuvindur
Isogen 5
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 16:02:38 -
[46] - Quote
Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.
Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
658
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 16:23:34 -
[47] - Quote
Stjornuvindur wrote:Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.
Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?
Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only.
Team Space Glitter
|
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Kayden Katelo
Mythic Heights
5
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 17:42:32 -
[48] - Quote
CCP RedDawn, as a very long time explorer I am very grateful you are actively looking into Data/Relic sites and making improvements. Most changes proposed are great. Your reversal on the Besieged sites is very appreciated. The use of data analyzer on Ghost sites is a good move.
I would echo one request, please make Ghost sites sigs and not anoms. It ought to have been this way from the beginning and may help increase their value.
I hope exploration will play a meaningful role in Citadel construction. Currently it is very disappointing that hacking will play no role is citadel destruction loot recovery nor dead stick removal. There is a huge loss of gaming potential here. |
DaOpa
Static Corp
51
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 17:50:25 -
[49] - Quote
The Data & Archaeology containers in the COSMOS Static complexes all need to be updated if your going to go ahead with this sort of a change to regular data sites.
Don't forget about them...
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3648
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 20:15:08 -
[50] - Quote
I think this is good, but not enough. At one time I saw a comment from CCP saying they wanted exploration to be the best ISK making PVE activity. In high sec, this certainly is not the case. L4 missions do better. Incursions are better. What could be done? Make the loot table wider. That is, include more items. I suggest the inclusion of all skillbooks and all T1 BPOs. The drop rate would have to be carefully limited, so as to not exceed the current market demand. (Otherwise we have a price crash, and the loot becomes worthless.)
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Frozen fanfiction
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Jon Illat
I.C.E Initiative
10
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 20:39:24 -
[51] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:I've listened and I'll cancel the change to require a Data Analyzer for Besieged sites. So no changes will be made to that site.
Thank you so much :) |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
108
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 21:09:20 -
[52] - Quote
Kayden Katelo wrote:CCP RedDawn, as a very long time explorer I am very grateful you are actively looking into Data/Relic sites and making improvements. Most changes proposed are great. Your reversal on the Besieged sites is very appreciated. The use of data analyzer on Ghost sites is a good move.
I would echo one request, please make Ghost sites sigs and not anoms. It ought to have been this way from the beginning and may help increase their value.
I hope exploration will play a meaningful role in Citadel construction. Currently it is very disappointing that hacking will play no role is citadel destruction loot recovery nor dead stick removal. There is a huge loss of gaming potential here.
Actually, this would be very welcome. I usually pass up Ghost sites because I have anoms turned off while exploring, since they are so numerous and clutter the list (:cough: get rid of the ****** anoms :cough:). I realize you want Ghost sites to draw more poeple into exploration by making them appear as anoms, but what I usually see is that anom runners ask each other what they are, scratch their heads and ignore them, while explorers passing through often miss altogether.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3181
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 21:31:27 -
[53] - Quote
I truly do wish this would work, but I don't believe it will. I have been providing feedback on data and relic sites since Odyssey was released and I have watched the slow downward spiral of there value since then. The changes in industry helped accelerate this as did the changes in scanning making it much easier to scan down sites. The Discovery Scanner is also one of the things has devalued in a more indirect way.
The bottom line is everything form data and relic sites are consumer based and if there is no consumer demand for the items the sites will always be of low value.
You would need to either introduce a means of NPC buy order items into the data sites to guarantee there value or cut the number of items you get from the sites dramatically to force the items to become more valuable.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Kel hound
The Scope Gallente Federation
136
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 23:13:11 -
[54] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Stjornuvindur wrote:Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.
Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?
Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only.
I've wondered for a long time now - Why do we actually need separate hacking skills and modules for these sites? Other than some minor differences in expected loot drops there is no real discernible difference between a Relic and Data site. Both use the same hacking window, both reward similar loot, both share a similar look and feel.
Really, as far as I can tell, the only difference is that one has me hacking a weird tower with a bunch of spinny rings, the other has me hacking a derelict ship. Is it just to make sure we fill at least 2 mid-slots on our probe ships? I don't get it, there's not enough variation to justify splitting up Data and Relic into separate things. |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
521
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 00:12:42 -
[55] - Quote
Kel hound wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Stjornuvindur wrote:Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.
Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?
Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only. I've wondered for a long time now - Why do we actually need separate hacking skills and modules for these sites? Other than some minor differences in expected loot drops there is no real discernible difference between a Relic and Data site. Both use the same hacking window, both reward similar loot, both share a similar look and feel. Really, as far as I can tell, the only difference is that one has me hacking a weird tower with a bunch of spinny rings, the other has me hacking a derelict ship. Is it just to make sure we fill at least 2 mid-slots on our probe ships? I don't get it, there's not enough variation to justify splitting up Data and Relic into separate things.
I submitted a proposal to merge these skills/modules but right now it doesn't seem feasible... plus perhaps CCP has some cool ideas for further differentiating them in the future.
I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
108
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 00:27:36 -
[56] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Kel hound wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Stjornuvindur wrote:Impressive feedback response :D and some good changes accepting the pointlessness of some of these sites.
Can we confirm we are switching from Relic OR Data module to ONLY USE data analyser in Ghosts?
Yes I'm still going to update all the Ghost site containers to require the Data Analyzer module only. I've wondered for a long time now - Why do we actually need separate hacking skills and modules for these sites? Other than some minor differences in expected loot drops there is no real discernible difference between a Relic and Data site. Both use the same hacking window, both reward similar loot, both share a similar look and feel. Really, as far as I can tell, the only difference is that one has me hacking a weird tower with a bunch of spinny rings, the other has me hacking a derelict ship. Is it just to make sure we fill at least 2 mid-slots on our probe ships? I don't get it, there's not enough variation to justify splitting up Data and Relic into separate things. I submitted a proposal to merge these skills/modules but right now it doesn't seem feasible... plus perhaps CCP has some cool ideas for further differentiating them in the future. I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?
I personally wish there wasn't a need for them, people use them to avoid wasting time flying around for empty cans. Relic sites right now have pretty well spread loot so you can eschew it, but Data often has one good can and a lot of very crappy ones, so the cargo scanner is a must.
Same with ghost sites, there is not enough time to hack all the cans so the scanner is a must to avoid picking the wrong cans to hack. It can be argued, however, that this makes you choose what loot you want before the site blows up, so ti's not as bad as with Data sites where you just waste your time, no choice involved.
tl;dr: either make it unnecessary to cargo scan or leave it as it is. Restricting its use would turn Ghost sites into a roulette.
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Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
1040
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 00:47:55 -
[57] - Quote
The modules are being rebalanced as they go through the sets they belong to.
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@Sugar_Kyle
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3183
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 03:00:32 -
[58] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites? To remove cargo scanning you would have to reduce the number of cans per site, especially in the Ghost sites. If they were to remove cargo scanning for hacking containers then I would push for the total removal of cargo scanning form all PVE activities.
Sugar Kyle wrote:The modules are being rebalanced as they go through the sets they belong to. Yes the Metacide project is a very much welcomed project, but it doesn't make the modules in any more of a demand, deadspace and faction are often items much easier to get and produce (if applicable) and it does not reduce the skill requirements of manufacturing some of the items.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1841
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 07:12:51 -
[59] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:I submitted a proposal to merge these skills/modules but right now it doesn't seem feasible... plus perhaps CCP has some cool ideas for further differentiating them in the future.
I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites? I'm not much of an explorer, I just dabble from time to time. merging the two hacker thingys sounds like a good idea to me, especially since as far as I can tell the do the same thing.
personally I think it is weird that you can cargo scan explo sites in the first place. In ghost sites it sounds like it makes more sense as you are rather time limited and adds to the task at hand. I'll leave more in depth arguments to people that run the content more often.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
378
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 08:22:15 -
[60] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:You would need to either introduce a means of NPC buy order items into the data sites to guarantee there value or cut the number of items you get from the sites dramatically to force the items to become more valuable. I was thinking about it, but it would like loot from sleepers site, ISK printing. We need to find items that are linked with market. Relics are in good state. Ghost sites are in good state. Data contain items that can be obtained from other sources and are not consumed enough. If we want to stick with "data lore" then maybe skillbooks, or tags?
What is the key here: -relics drops BPCs and materials to use them; -ghost drop BPCs and materials to use them; -data drops....
I'm browsing eve-markets but can't find suitable items. Cosmos modules are not enough, they won't have enough interest to fill the ISK gap between data and relic sites.
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:I'm not much of an explorer, I just dabble from time to time. merging the two hacker thingys sounds like a good idea to me, especially since as far as I can tell the do the same thing. CCP distinguished them in sleepers sites. Data module is for hacking devices on grid (unlocking warp gates, hack defense units), relic is for hacking loot cans. It's skill treshold for these sites.
As for cargo scanning. I was against it at start. When CCP introduced sleepers sites I started to change my mind. There are just too many cans on grids. It's +30 hack I presume. It also help to take meanigful choices when explorer is on grid (which can hack first etc.).
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3184
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Posted - 2015.10.04 11:45:39 -
[61] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:You would need to either introduce a means of NPC buy order items into the data sites to guarantee there value or cut the number of items you get from the sites dramatically to force the items to become more valuable. I was thinking about it, but it would like loot from sleepers site, ISK printing. We need to find items that are linked with market. Relics are in good state. Ghost sites are in good state. Data contain items that can be obtained from other sources and are not consumed enough. If we want to stick with "data lore" then maybe skillbooks, or tags? What is the key here: -relics drops BPCs and materials to use them; -ghost drop BPCs and materials to use them; -data drops.... I'm browsing eve-markets but can't find suitable items. Cosmos modules are not enough, they won't have enough interest to fill the ISK gap between data and relic sites. Relic sites are in good shape because ships are constantly being destroyed and new ships are being built and the salvage materials are in constant demand for new rigs. Even the times when a ship is not destroyed and the player simply wants to change what rig they are using they have to get a new rig which means new salvage materials need to be consumed. I don't know if you remember or even played pre-odyssey but T2 rigs used to cost up to 3~4x the cost of the hull you wanted to put them on because of the rarity of them, and they were hardly affordable for most players. Now they are all but disposable.
Data sites took a hit when the loot spew mechanic was introduced because the loot volume was increased to keep solo explorers able to continue to profit, this caused a massive influx in data site loot along with a massive increase in the number of players doing data and relic sites because of the extremely low entry level of them, the final nail in the coffin was the industry overhaul which removed racial decryptors.
Ghost sites are in good shape because they have items that are sold to a NPC buy order to keep there value up.
As far as ISK printing, it is PVE which is there to make ISK for players, it would not be so much about printing new ISK, but making sure the new ISK that comes for the sites is not too harmful to the economy.
Also as I have been suggesting since the change there must be some form of danger in Data and Relic sites, this would also help to make the sites valuable again as not all players would make it out with there loot, it doesn't need to be in the form of rats but some sort of danger and chance of losing the ship needs to be there, the sleeper sites were a good example of how to make a profitable sites with mostly environmental dangers.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
527
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Posted - 2015.10.04 14:22:57 -
[62] - Quote
[quote=Omnathious Deninard Also as I have been suggesting since the change there must be some form of danger in Data and Relic sites, this would also help to make the sites valuable again as not all players would make it out with there loot, it doesn't need to be in the form of rats but some sort of danger and chance of losing the ship needs to be there, the sleeper sites were a good example of how to make a profitable sites with mostly environmental dangers.[/quote]
I agree this would be cool, though I've also heard it as an argument for killing cargo scanning. Keep ships on grid longer, make them do more cans, and they will die more often to other explorers/explorer hunters.
Or you know just make failed can hacks explosions do damage.
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
670
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 14:39:14 -
[63] - Quote
Making Ghost sites Sigs and not Anoms is something i'll look into tomorrow and I'll let you know the outcome.
Regarding the variance between hacking data sites vs relic sites, hacking game iterations is something i've been pushing for for a while. Right now they are too similar in my opinion and I would love to see some more separation. However that will have to be looked into at another time.
Team Space Glitter
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
52086
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 14:56:55 -
[64] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote: I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?
Didn't like it back when the ability to cargo scan Overseer / NPC Commanders for better loot was made public (thus creating the consequence of expedition timer reset mechanic being removed) and I definitely don't like it becoming standard module fit up for Hacking sites (thus promoting 'Cherry Picking' and leaving sites active with worthless loot).
In my opinion Exploration is all about finding something from the Unknown. Shouldn't be able to pick and choose what you want from the sites.
Bottom line : NPC Overseer / Commander / Structure and Containers should all be immune to cargo scanning.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3187
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 15:50:23 -
[65] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote: Also as I have been suggesting since the change there must be some form of danger in Data and Relic sites, this would also help to make the sites valuable again as not all players would make it out with there loot, it doesn't need to be in the form of rats but some sort of danger and chance of losing the ship needs to be there, the sleeper sites were a good example of how to make a profitable sites with mostly environmental dangers.
I agree this would be cool, though I've also heard it as an argument for killing cargo scanning. Keep ships on grid longer, make them do more cans, and they will die more often to other explorers/explorer hunters. Or you know just make failed can hacks explosions do damage. Most explorers I know and most of the ones I help guide always reinforce the understanding that if you are alone in the system you are ok to hack, if you are not alone I recommend finishing up and cloaking until you are alone again.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
377
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 16:06:07 -
[66] - Quote
Quote:Also as I have been suggesting since the change there must be some form of danger in Data and Relic sites, this would also help to make the sites valuable again as not all players would make it out with there loot, it doesn't need to be in the form of rats but some sort of danger and chance of losing the ship needs to be there
From a PVP Perspective - especially in W-Space, the danger is other players. I've killed MANY explorers running Data/Relic sites in W-Space. I even put a video up on how I do it. So there is risk, and in K-Space, local definitely makes it easier for an explorer to run sites safely. I think this is one of the things that will get addressed with some of the new structures, if delayed local is still on the roadmap - it was discussed last Fanfest.
For PVE danger, some of the problem comes down to the predictability of the sites.
Look at the Sleeper Cache sites - there are environmental dangers you have to avoid, but once you've done it a few times, or watched some guides, you know exactly where the triggers are, what areas to avoid, and the risk of losing your ship lowers significantly.
Don't get me wrong - I love the content of these sites, and I've lost MANY Stratios/Astero trying to run them - especially the Superior Sleeper Cache second and third rooms. Timing those damage waves is harder than you think.
But unless the new dungeon tools being developed will allow for more dynamic sites that we can't do guides for - same as L4 missions and Sleeper Sites - where the triggers are all documented and everyone can read it on EVEU or EVE-Survival, I don't see this changing without a huge amount of effort to recreate what we already have. And I dont think it would be worth it honestly.
I'm hoping instead we see more iteration and new sites created like what is happening with the Burner Missions, and Unknown Wormholes exploration content - that has hacking AND combat mechanics, and almost guaranteed ship loss due to the Drifter Doomsdays, so it seems to check all the boxes you mentioned. |
Circumstantial Evidence
230
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 16:20:40 -
[67] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Regarding the variance between hacking data sites vs relic sites, hacking game iterations is something i've been pushing for for a while.Right now they are too similar in my opinion and I would love to see some more separation. However that will have to be looked into at another time. Thank you for this comment, we (hopefully) realize there's only so much you can do to a feature in your "spare" time. Nerfing the loot that was formerly used to make data interfaces, is the most important thing I would like to see from this change. I don't think cutting by half is nearly enough, considering how far these items have dropped in market value. I now have mountains of it from my own explorations and don't even bother to sell it. It's now hardly worth the effort of hauling somewhere or collecting in the first place.
Some of the less-threatening aspects of sleeper caches would add needed variation to data/relic sites, at some future time when development resources can turn in their direction.
I think ghost sites being in the anom category is one if their unique flavors, and creates get-it-now urgency. I've gambled away a number of exploration frigates, due to that. The new sleeper caches fill the opposite need for something hard to find, challenging to scan, and puzzles to solve.
Cargo scanners are an interesting option that I would leave alone. For my first year of play, I didn't know it was possible to scan site loot cans, so its still there as something new players can try and discover, if they don't read the forums.
It's annoying to come across a partially completed site, but I don't usually want to nerf my ship fits by equipping them. Explorers with cargo scanners have one less option available in a pvp situation. |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
378
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 16:28:11 -
[68] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Making Ghost sites Sigs and not Anoms is something i'll look into tomorrow and I'll let you know the outcome. I really think this would be a good change.
Since the Besieged Covert Research Facilities are only spawned in Lowsec, you put yourself at an amount of danger that doesn't justify the risk. I personally have passed many of them up when roaming around through Lowsec, in favor of looking for DED Complexes and Expeditions. It's the amount of time/difficulty as running a DED site, but with more chance of being warp scrambled by rats, and being warpable to if anyone comes into system. Because of the high DPS you also need very specific fits, so it's very difficult to defend yourself if someone does try to grab you.
If they were Cosmic Signatures, you could at least have the warning of Core/Combat Probes on you to give you a chance to get out. With DED sites you have even more safety because the further into the site you are, the more acceleration gates have to be traversed to get to you. You can set your DSCAN to 100,000km and know when someone is actually trying to get to you. Since the Besieged Covert Facility Sites don't have acceleration gates, making them Cosmic Signatures would only provide a little more safety, as you can still be combat scanned directly onto.
If the Faction Ghost Sites (Lesser/Standard/Improved/Superior Covert Research Facility) are going to be changed to use the Data Analyzer only, if they were to become Cosmic Signatures as well, they could be reclassified as Data Sites and it would make sense. |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
530
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 16:40:32 -
[69] - Quote
I've had people tell me they've never seen a ghost site. 90% of the time the reason is because they have anomalies hidden to declutter their probe scan window!
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Kynric
Sky Fighters
360
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 16:55:28 -
[70] - Quote
I think it would be better if the right ship fit for PVE is also a good ship fit for PVP. It would make the occasional victim turned fighter more interesting. To that end I suggest that taking 3 mids on an exploration ship for cargo scanner, data and relic scanners is not optimum. Please consider combining the devices into one module. Use scripts or context to change functionality. Losing one mid is a handicap, losing three is a too much of a handicap. |
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
383
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Posted - 2015.10.04 18:00:44 -
[71] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:I agree this would be cool, though I've also heard it as an argument for killing cargo scanning. Keep ships on grid longer, make them do more cans, and they will die more often to other explorers/explorer hunters. If we killing cargo scanning there should be less cans to hack, maybe -2 per site. Sleepers sites are obvious problem there are to many of them.
Chance Ravinne wrote:I've had people tell me they've never seen a ghost site. 90% of the time the reason is because they have anomalies hidden to declutter their probe scan window! It's because there are no difference between anoms in scanner window. We can filter anoms/signatures, not inside the anoms category. I've posted this in new scanner window thread.
Kynric wrote:I think it would be better if the right ship fit for PVE is also a good ship fit for PVP. It would make the occasional victim turned fighter more interesting. It's will decrease the treshold for the sites, unless using dat/relic script will require data/relic skill.
CCP RedDawn do you have time for data loot only or maybe for something more? Maybe we will bake some explo little things or some sticky "The state of exploration" thread with thoughts about it. We have analyzers, cargo scanners and sites ideas, maybe it's time to gather post odyssey feedback in one thread.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Kel hound
The Scope Gallente Federation
139
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 18:22:20 -
[72] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Making Ghost sites Sigs and not Anoms is something i'll look into tomorrow and I'll let you know the outcome.
Regarding the variance between hacking data sites vs relic sites, hacking game iterations is something i've been pushing for for a while. Right now they are too similar in my opinion and I would love to see some more separation. However that will have to be looked into at another time.
Well glad to know its on your radar as well. If there was some decent variation between both site types I wouldnt mind in the slightest, it's just right now it feels like busy work; something done to make me spend more time doing a task. ...are ghost sites still anoms and not sigs? You know, I was curious, how do you tell the difference (for the timer) between some lost nublet warping into site, and an actual explorer looking for loot? I guess you don't, huh... Probably for the best then to make them a sig then and not just an anom.
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I submitted a proposal to merge these skills/modules but right now it doesn't seem feasible... plus perhaps CCP has some cool ideas for further differentiating them in the future.
I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?
I'm fairly ambivalent to cargo scanners. It's necessary for ghost sites, granted, but other than that it feels optional enough that I cant really bring myself to object to them in general exploration gameplay. |
Circumstantial Evidence
230
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 19:43:20 -
[73] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:I've had people tell me they've never seen a ghost site. 90% of the time the reason is because they have anomalies hidden to declutter their probe scan window! A good reason to do something, lol. But I'd fix that problem, by making it not filter-able. Let this type be the one anom you can always see.
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
378
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 22:26:53 -
[74] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:I've had people tell me they've never seen a ghost site. 90% of the time the reason is because they have anomalies hidden to declutter their probe scan window!
When Ghost Sites were added, I got into the habit of doing a quick "Show Anomalies" toggle to check for them. But if there are a LOT of anomalies, it is definitely hard to go through, since we can't set very granular filters - for example to only show anomalies with specific text keywords. We can sort by group or name, but we still have to go through it all.
Color coding anomalies would be a good way to help distinguish these. Since they're always going to be 100% and warpable, they don't all have to be solid green. We could have something like this:
Combat Site - Dark Red Ore Site - Orange/Brown Ice Belt - Blue/White Ghost Site - Purple
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Tikktokk Tokkzikk
Alekhine's Gun Decayed Orbit
284
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 23:14:20 -
[75] - Quote
Suggestion: add the hacking mini-game to the thukker container in besiged sites. They're currently fairly uninteresting as an extra loot container you just have to burn 10km for.
Edit: would it also be possible to make probe scanner filters for anomalies, too? I'd quite like to filter out faction warfare sites but keep signature, besiged sites, etc. |
SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
163
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 07:57:07 -
[76] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?
I thought you're so big on pvp?
Relic + data analyzer, web + scram , mwd is 5 mid slots. That already removes the cheetah and the anathema from the pool of useable ships. The single drone or rocket launcher you can fit on helios and buzzard respectively aren't much, but they're more than other cov ops have usually equipped.
So there really is no space for cargo scanners. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
391
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 08:37:30 -
[77] - Quote
I did some digging about cosmos modules. They are basically easier to fit (lower PG and CPU requirements) and have lower activation costs. They perform as good as T2 mods. Not bad, definatelly something worth so look at in terms of fittings. Maufacturing is a problem, they using sleepers materials. Where do you want them in term of cost CCP? Between T2 and deadspace mods?
SpaceSaft wrote:I thought you're so big on pvp?
Relic + data analyzer, web + scram , mwd is 5 mid slots. That already removes the cheetah and the anathema from the pool of useable ships. The single drone or rocket launcher you can fit on helios and buzzard respectively aren't much, but they're more than other cov ops have usually equipped.
So there really is no space for cargo scanners. PvP? In covop frig? They are for scanning not fighting.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
114
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 10:16:34 -
[78] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote: PvP? In covop frig? They are for scanning not fighting.
The Astero begs to differ. And any of the cruisers (T3s and Stratios) are more than capable of fending off frigates even while fit for exploration. |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
251
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 10:45:16 -
[79] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:Helo Dhals wrote:As the owner of many storyline module BPCs, making the materials cheaper and more plentiful doesn't make me want to build the modules. Their price will drop as soon as the materials become more affordable. Making the modules have some sort of advantage (aside from just fitting) over meta 4/t2/faction is what would make me want to run the BPCs. Currently the storyline modules are inferior to T2 in every stat aside from fitting. These are gradually being rebalanced as part of Module Tiercide. I'd make sure to give feedback as these passes continue.
Personally I would say, in addition to any fitting advantages, some or all of the 'Storyline' & certainly 'COSMOS' modules need to have better performance statistics than their T2 equivalents. This has been done with a couple of 'Storyline' modules that are extremely rare drops but as yet nothing else has happened on this issue.
Most of the 'COSMOS' modules are difficult at best to construct whereas T2 technology is 'cheap as chips' and easily acquired so it makes sense for COSMOS & Storyline modules to perform better than T2 tech. I am not calling for the rarity element of COSMOS & Storyline to be lessened particularly as some stuff in-game should harder to acquire. Even officer modules seem to more readily available though so maybe the very rare materials required need to be easier to source. The market/contract price for some of these items is usually exorbitant.
I have pushed for this to happen before and hope at some point it can happen.
" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. "-áRick.
" Find out what ? "-áAbraham.
" They're screwing with the wrong people. "-áRick.
Season four.-á-á ' The Walking Dead. ' .
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
381
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 10:47:14 -
[80] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:PvP? In covop frig? They are for scanning not fighting.
The Battle Heron and Blaster/Rail Imicus would also like a word with you.
The T2 Covops ships make great covert cyno tacklers due to their price, fast warp speed, and agility.
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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
251
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 10:56:21 -
[81] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:I did some digging about cosmos modules. They are basically easier to fit (lower PG and CPU requirements) and have lower activation costs. They perform as good as T2 mods. Not bad, definatelly something worth so look at in terms of fittings. Maufacturing is a problem, they using sleepers materials. Where do you want them in term of cost CCP? Between T2 and deadspace mods? SpaceSaft wrote:I thought you're so big on pvp?
Relic + data analyzer, web + scram , mwd is 5 mid slots. That already removes the cheetah and the anathema from the pool of useable ships. The single drone or rocket launcher you can fit on helios and buzzard respectively aren't much, but they're more than other cov ops have usually equipped.
So there really is no space for cargo scanners. PvP? In covop frig? They are for scanning not fighting.
The majority of storyline & COSMOS modules do not perform as well or better than T2 tech presently. There are a few exceptions to this previous to the current campaign of module iteration. So far only two storyline modules have been placed better than T2 in terms of performance and the drop rate for these particular ones is next to non-existent. In terms of market cost for storyline/COSMOS modules the player market will find a level based on availability and statistics. Price is the lesser problem as they have to all be moved to give better performance than T2 tech across the board in addition to fitting advantages.
Regarding the cargo scanners comment a lot of explorers fit them to judge which exploration cans to open and which to not bother with. They were not necessarily referring to PvP usage of covop frigates.
" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. "-áRick.
" Find out what ? "-áAbraham.
" They're screwing with the wrong people. "-áRick.
Season four.-á-á ' The Walking Dead. ' .
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
391
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 11:12:55 -
[82] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:The Astero begs to differ. And any of the cruisers (T3s and Stratios) are more than capable of fending off frigates even while fit for exploration. When I meant covops frig I meant T2 covops racial frigs, not Astero. When someone is talking about helios and buzzard I presume he wrote about T2 racial covops.
Ransu Asanari wrote:The Battle Heron and Blaster/Rail Imicus would also like a word with you. The T2 Covops ships make great covert cyno tacklers due to their price, fast warp speed, and agility. Heron and Imicus are not covops frigs. T2 racial frigs have paper tank, no use of them in PvP+exploration like Astero. They are meant to hit the cans and run.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:The majority of storyline & COSMOS modules do not perform as well or better than T2 tech presently. There are a few exceptions to this previous to the current campaign of module iteration. So far only two storyline modules have been placed better than T2 in terms of performance and the drop rate for these particular ones is next to non-existent. In terms of market cost for storyline/COSMOS modules the player market will find a level based on availability and statistics. Price is the lesser problem as they have to all be moved to give better performance than T2 tech across the board in addition to fitting advantages. I was checking prop mods. Weren't they tiercided lately? So performace as T2 but lower fittings and lower cap usage.
So many covops in this post...
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
251
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 11:16:19 -
[83] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:I'm glad I bought up all those comos BPCs for cheap over the years
Invariably for as long as I can remember COSMOS BPCs have never been cheap on channels or on contracts. Occasionally a seller will offer them at a fair price but this doesn't happen that often.
" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. "-áRick.
" Find out what ? "-áAbraham.
" They're screwing with the wrong people. "-áRick.
Season four.-á-á ' The Walking Dead. ' .
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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
251
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 11:19:40 -
[84] - Quote
I hadn't realised some 'bog-standard' propulsion modules have been iterated to out-perform COSMOS modules. If that is the case that is a ridiculous situation.
" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. "-áRick.
" Find out what ? "-áAbraham.
" They're screwing with the wrong people. "-áRick.
Season four.-á-á ' The Walking Dead. ' .
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Canenald
Jump Drive Appreciation Society Test Alliance Please Ignore
83
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 11:24:13 -
[85] - Quote
The value of sites is dictated by the market value of the loot they drop, so it's not easy to balance just by changing the amount of loot that drops. If you simply boost the number of decryptors that drop, for example, I'd expect it to reduce the price of decryptors more than increase the value of data sites.
I hope that introducing high-value COSMOS materials will help, but it's more likely to reduce the value of those materials unless storyline modules are made more desirable with the module tiericide.
BPCs might also help a little, but they drop so rarely they are more like a little bonus that you get from time to time rather than something that will make people not skip data sites. Again, if you make them drop more often, it will just reduce their value rather than boost data site value. |
Zen Dad
Doped Player's Inc. Bleak Horizon Alliance.
291
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 12:48:40 -
[86] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Hello all. Feel free to throw your thoughts, concerns and ideas at me here! Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Put much better loot into some lo-sec sites and guard with rats ( ie state of play Pre-Odyssey). Noobs can still fly Magnates with 4 stabs into the unguarded sites, but there will also be the opportunity of increased rewards for those who arrive in better ships or with support.
No need for a complex backstory or epic journey when short of RL time. Make standard lo-sec worth it again, it's dead.
As a hunter of explorers i confess to selfish motives, but pre-Odyssey lo-sec was a much more exciting place and the rewards were there to be had.
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
680
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:01:29 -
[87] - Quote
Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well. Besieged sites will remain as Anomalies. (and without the required use of the Data Analyzer)
It's been added to the list on the front page.
Team Space Glitter
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
393
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:04:31 -
[88] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well. Just like that? They should be sigs from day 1. CCP RedDawn, you must stay longer with us.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
682
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:08:21 -
[89] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well. Just like that? They should be sigs from day 1. CCP RedDawn, you must stay longer with us.
Ha!
Well I've been about for a while. Just not in the limelight.
Team Space Glitter
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
393
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:10:40 -
[90] - Quote
Btw, any chance of decreasing volume on ghost sites loot?
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
684
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:23:12 -
[91] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Btw, any chance of decreasing volume on ghost sites loot?
If the overall demand is there, then yes. There's always a chance.
Team Space Glitter
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
381
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:24:55 -
[92] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well. Besieged sites will remain as Anomalies. (and without the required use of the Data Analyzer)
It's been added to the list on the front page. I'd really prefer to see the Besieged sites as Cosmic Signatures, for the reasons I posted here.
The Ghost Sites changing to Cosmic Signatures is nice, but it doesn't make a huge impact. They can't be camped because the trigger starts as soon as someone warps to them, and they despawn fairly quickly afterwards. They also spawn in Highsec, where the Besieged Sites only spawn in Lowsec.
Any particular reason you're preferring to keep the Besieged sites as Anomalies? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3193
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:36:07 -
[93] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well. Just like that? They should be sigs from day 1. CCP RedDawn, you must stay longer with us. Ha! Well I've been about for a while. Just not in the limelight. It was you and CCP Bayesian if I remember correctly who fronted the initial changes to data and relic sites. We appreciate your continued work on these sites and for listening to us for changes and improvements to the sites.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
685
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:38:30 -
[94] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well. Besieged sites will remain as Anomalies. (and without the required use of the Data Analyzer)
It's been added to the list on the front page. I'd really prefer to see the Besieged sites as Cosmic Signatures, for the reasons I posted here. The Ghost Sites changing to Cosmic Signatures is nice, but it doesn't make a huge impact. They can't be camped because the trigger starts as soon as someone warps to them, and they despawn fairly quickly afterwards. They also spawn in Highsec, where the Besieged Sites only spawn in Lowsec. Any particular reason you're preferring to keep the Besieged sites as Anomalies?
Reason being that Besieged sites are more of a combat site than a 'Data' exploration site. Thus the 'less positive' feedback of adding the Data Analyzer as a requirement for the site as it adds more complications to the fitting choice of players wishing to run these Besieged sites.
Team Space Glitter
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3193
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:41:03 -
[95] - Quote
What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site.
Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
685
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:41:44 -
[96] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well. Just like that? They should be sigs from day 1. CCP RedDawn, you must stay longer with us. Ha! Well I've been about for a while. Just not in the limelight. It was you and CCP Bayesian if I remember correctly who fronted the initial changes to data and relic sites. We appreciate your continued work on these sites and for listening to us for changes and improvements to the sites.
Indeed it was. Both of us designed the hacking game and have continually pushed to have our full vision of it realised. What's out there on TQ right now is far from how we originally intended it to be.
That being said however, anyone with any experience with game development knows, everything has a priority.
Team Space Glitter
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
685
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:46:30 -
[97] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site.
Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers.
I'm all for changes like this that increase the demand on player ability and potentially harm them if mistakes are made. As long as they're fair.
An alarm based Defensive Subsystem inside the hacking UI was one of the initial goals that had to be dropped due to time constraints, but it's something I would like to see revisited in the future. A relic based alternative is something I would like to do in tandem with that change.
Team Space Glitter
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Gypsys Bear
Iris Covenant The Gorgon Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.10.05 13:59:29 -
[98] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: * Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites) * Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites. * Introduced the higher tiered (higher value) Cosmos site building materials to all class wormhole Data sites. (C1 to C6) * Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables. * All exploration Ghost Sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module. * Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc) * All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
* Good. * MJD, ASB, RAH and TSB BPC? Bad, players can manufacture fueled modules everywhere in EVE with it BPC. * Good. But it must be rarely. * If you want to build 10MN Analog Booster Rockets try to find materials, use brains and some google. So, or remove stationar complexes with cosmos materials. Clever newbee can earn billions in stationar plexes with frigate, light drones and Relic analyser I * Yes. I find 4 domi medium POS BPC, but only 2 angel dinamic calibrator in exploration sites :( * Warp and hack? Bad idea, if you want to explore and hack use modules and train skills. Don`t make it easy and safely. * Need 10%-25% from the current value. After 100-200-300 data sites (with all loot) i have thousands Positron Cords. Too mush for any manufacturing
Quote:The intention of this change is to hopefully boost the overall value of all Data sites, increase the manufacturing of Storyline modules, increase the demand for Cosmos site blueprints and increase the value of the most commonly dropped building materials.
So, now Stotyline modules very rare and bad to use them. What about role bonus for cosmos items without another changes?
Quote: Note: The similarities of the Data and Relic hacking game are known, as is the Cargo Scanning/Cherry Picking of containers. Both of these are outside the scope of my free time right now however but are not forgotten.
What kind information do you need? Statistics or something more specific? Cargo scanner needed some randomize results and don`t show all materials in cans. Now i can scan all cand, see trash in all and warp out without hack and all the others too. Actually, hacking data sites more difficult than relic. It`s good. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
394
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 14:39:52 -
[99] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Btw, any chance of decreasing volume on ghost sites loot? If the overall demand is there, then yes. There's always a chance. I meant decrease volume from 1m3 to less -> 0,1m3 or 0.01m3. Overall item drop volume should be increased I think. For now manufacturing low level implants is not worth a hassle.
CCP RedDawn wrote:Indeed it was. Both of us designed the hacking game and have continually pushed to have our full vision of it realised. What's out there on TQ right now is far from how we originally intended it to be. How far is it? 50% of the original project? Less?
Omnathious Deninard wrote:What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site.
Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers. I almost get caught by some Stain dwellers lately. D-scan and cloak saved me. So if there were some object on grid that prevent cloaking easily. So it would matter how you possition your ship on grid vs the hacking can? It would be like cloaked submarine, watching surrondings, for mines, corrosive clouds, defense units and object on grid that can decloak you or prevent cloaking when hostiles land on grid.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
117
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Posted - 2015.10.05 14:52:12 -
[100] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: Indeed it was. Both of us designed the hacking game and have continually pushed to have our full vision of it realised. What's out there on TQ right now is far from how we originally intended it to be.
That explains quite a few things. I'd love to know how "done" it is from your pov, but I realize you might now want or be allowed to share that tidbit.
I also wanted to thank you for listening to us, and for the fast answers. It's really comforting to know this part of the game I so enjoy is not forgotten. |
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
381
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 15:31:56 -
[101] - Quote
Definitely have to echo that. Thanks to CCP RedDawn for taking the time to further iterate on this content, and Sugar Kyle for keeping on top of this project from the CSM side. |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
416
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 15:36:08 -
[102] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote: I'm also curious what the explorers here think about cargo scanners in exploration sites?
It cuts down on the frustration of getting low- / zero-value cans.
All in all, I think it's a mechanic that promotes planning and preparation, and offers players more choices.
If you go into PvP unprepared and with a poor fit, you might occasionally win against another person like yourself, but the vast bulk of the time, you'll lose. Similarly with industry, if you go in with poor research and poor understanding, you're going to lose ISK in the majority of cases.
I think having cargo scanners work on cans is similar. To fit one, you're sacrificing something else. Be it a Data Analyzer, a shield mod, a dual prop, a scanning array, or something else entirely, it's a sacrifice you're making to increase your ISK efficiency by blowing up low-value cans that we don't want. I think the cargo scanning mechanic should stay for that reason.
On the other hand, it increases frustration when running into a site that a person has cherry-picked, but that is, in my own experiences, much less common than running into a pile of carbon.
Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections.
Once you've made your choice, join the EvE-Scout channel and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
381
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 15:46:06 -
[103] - Quote
I support cherry picking and cargo scanning sites - it can actually be used offensively when in someone else's space.
Denying ISK is a thing with AegisSov, since interdicting your enemy's ability to mine and rat affects their sov indexes. This might even become more important now that the Survey Network upgrade can generate more of these sites (was doubled in Aegis). Hopefully this could make it into the ADM indexes if it could be measured somehow.
Within an Alliance you can ask nicely for members to self-destruct the empty cans by starting the hack then clicking out of them. I've seen a number of diplomatic incidents created when blues were running your sites, or the sites were left with empty cans.
I do think that the sites should despawn faster once cans have been accessed though. This was changed recently, but they still take about an hour to despawn. Maybe drop it down to 20 minutes - that way a cloaky camper can either leave the loot as bait (and the site up), or take the valuables and gamble on getting prey before the site despawns. |
Mynxee
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
202
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Posted - 2015.10.05 16:31:08 -
[104] - Quote
Thank you, CCP RedDawn, for your attention to exploration!!
Some general thoughts on what I've read so far here:
- I love the hacking mini game but it gets pretty repetitive after you've done a bajillion sites, and is pretty easy to do quickly if one knows to follow the numbers and focus on central nodes in clusters. Long term, it would be neat to have (at least) two styles of hacking mini-games--one for Relics, one for Data--that involve differing skills (for example, a memory and matching minigame in addition to the existing minesweeper-esque minigame we have now). That would be more interesting and serve to help differentiate them.
- I suggested the idea that scanning a can with a cargo scanner have a (small) chance of blowing it up because :defenses: in Chance's thread and would still love to see that happen.
- Would be nice if partially looted cans sensed the intrusion and self-destructed after some random time interval (with no or minor damage to any nearby ship).
Re CCP RedDawn's list of improvements:
- Love the change of Ghost sites to Cosmic Sigs...they are valuable enough that it should take *some* effort to potentially profit even if just from hacking the cans in them til the NPCs show up.
- I always fit both Relic and Data analyzers so forcing use of one or the other doesn't bother me, but also not opposed to the idea of one module that is scripted for either Relic or Data hacking. If that were ever to happen, I would want my time invested in training to use T2 analyzers comped somehow or applied in some useful way...dare I suggest T2 scripts?
- It wouldn't bother me if hacking site income was mainly geared toward what is considered good income from a new player's perspective (rather than what a more experienced player would consider "good"). It might mean that more experienced players would then choose to do harder exploration sites and thus faction hacking site exploration as a starting career would possibly tend to be the domain of newer players (or lazy, risk-averse folks such as myself).
- Drops that have no apparent use (even as collectibles) or value to build are irksome. Glad to see it's on your radar to address this stuff to the degree that makes sense.
- I wish collectible trinkets (similar to the cute stuff we get for Christmas some years but with relevant Faction flavor/humor) would drop once in awhile. I love fun little surprises. Or who knows...maybe stuff that is somehow tied to the lore and currently active story arcs?
Lost in space, looking for sigs...
Blog: Outlaw Insouciant
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Dinic
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 17:16:37 -
[105] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:* Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc)
I wish the volume on these could be reduced as well. I find myself having to jettison these materials frequently to keep my exploration roams going.
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Eodp Ellecon
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
20
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 18:05:30 -
[106] - Quote
BPC Module - Never understood why Target Spectrum Breaker was ship class limited to Battleship, Marauders and Black Ops (never used on any that I can see). One would think by logical extension of BLOPS you might be able to fit it to a Blockade Runner, but no. Nor can you put it on a Deep Space Transport where they might make sense to fit. Others as mentioned suffer needed module revision.
BPC Rig - Odd rig example, Capital Gravity Capacitor Upgrade II - really? Is there a ship, even on the Far Horizon, that would conceivably ever get fitted with this ?? Maybe in future these can instead be Citadel Rig or Module drops at much improved ME/TE to adequately reward over normal acquisition process.
SKILL - Encryption Method skill books could be removed entirely and there would be adequate supply for years to come. Jury Rigging skill book in exploration sites? Really? Please remove. Launcher and Electronic Superiority Rigging will soon be similar.
Books that drop should be a level up from where a decent scanner character is expected to be, so that it either feeds their evolution or pocket book, At the very least, make it a random from the entire Skill book table instead of the narrow range we have now. Loots must have A purpose. Blueprints should have a likelihood of game use in the present sense.
Datacores are ok if a bit meagre in quantity.
To some degree, ANY RANDOM drops added to Data Sites would be more amusing (if not profitable). Outlandishly odd example would be unrefined Processed Moon Materials (they're 1m3 already but absolutely no market, refine it sell intermediate, table would pull from exampled moons in system). Very rarely Ship Skins. Sometimes Special Edition Apparel.
Exploration has the element of leading to and connecting with All the other parts of the game.
Not every aspect of 'Exploration' in the game needs to be geared towards potential ship destruction by PVE forces (there's some aspect of risk through PVP intervention). It first needs to be Amusing and generally worth taking the time to do. As you add risk factors you have to allow that not every player is quadruple screened and can't see anything BUT the hacking interface.
Thank you for taking on an otherwise thankless job as a personal project and giving it real eyes and ears.
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Salie Gaterau
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 18:50:48 -
[107] - Quote
Really happy to hear that Data sites will be getting some love.
I've been tempted to skip many of these in the past because I always seem a little disappointed afterwards in the risk VS rewards of running them. And the Data can rewards have traditionally kind of felt out of step with the Relic sites. Relic site rewards feel more evenly divided among the site but Data runs seem to have a lot of empty cans, crap loot cans and maybe 1 or 2 decent drops.
Overall, thanks for the personal attention of the Explorer community :) |
Chal0ner
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
175
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 19:36:02 -
[108] - Quote
As many has said - the loot value of data sites are ... well lets say, they provide little or no incentive to doing them to keep it civil - so very good you are looking into changing that and specializing content between the two site types. Also, some variation in mini-game would be appreciated, other than some cans spam inhibitors in a quantity that kills any hacking in the starting clicks.
Also, an idea I've had for a long time could maybe be integrated in this context - leading to skillbooks and tool for researching T2 modules into T3 modules (the technology set is called T3, the skillset is called research, why should it be limited to ship hulls). These could maybe drop only in wormhole space data sites. Which would significantly increase the value of data sites in wormholes. |
Resra Tenjin
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 22:20:18 -
[109] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: * Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites) * Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites. (Info Shard, Com Tower, Mainframe and Databank) * Introduced the higher tiered (higher value) Cosmos site building materials to all class wormhole Data sites. (C1 to C6) * Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables. * All exploration Ghost Sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module. * Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc) * All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
Relatively new player here in terms of exploration but i can certainly give my two cents.
I am all for making Data Sites more valuable, right now almost every time i've dont them i've pretty much regretted it. That went to the point of me switching out my data analyzer in favor of a cargo scanner (as much as i hate cherry picked sites).
Anyway here are my two cents to the list above in order.
* That is nice but i dont see that increasing the value by much.. Most skillbooks i've found so far are worth little to nothing. * These are usually not worth doing (at least i've been told, havent dabbled into industry myself yet) so again i dont see this increasing the value at all * I've had to look up what that is.. * .. so i cant comment on those since i know nothing about them * Good because i've never seen one. * Never done these before i've had anomalies hidden since forever * Will those be worth anything? * Good i might actually notice them then!
As to comments about the discussion in this thread i've read so far:
I love the idea of some sense of danger added to the site. Exploding damage from failed cans and maybe even hazards like gas to avoid are very welcome.
I like the idea of one analyzer with scripts.
Anything that stops people from cherrypicking sites and leaving them there is welcome. It makes me fume when i encounter those. Even to the point where i sometimes seem to play the garbage collector behind another explorer exploding the worthless cans for them, since they apparently cant be bothered. I also would love to replace the Cargo Scanner i have in now with a second prop mod
Cheers everyone Resra |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3196
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 22:42:40 -
[110] - Quote
Resra Tenjin wrote:Anything that stops people from cherrypicking sites and leaving them there is welcome. It makes me fume when i encounter those. Even to the point where i sometimes seem to play the garbage collector behind another explorer exploding the worthless cans for them, since they apparently cant be bothered. I also would love to replace the Cargo Scanner i have in now with a second prop mod
Cheers everyone Resra It is a (sometimes indirect) PVP tactic. Using PVP in a broad term meaning anything that forces players to compete with each other rather than the simplest form of ships shooting other ships.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1848
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 00:22:37 -
[111] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:I hadn't realised some 'bog-standard' propulsion modules have been iterated to out-perform COSMOS modules. If that is the case that is a ridiculous situation. they don't. they simply match the fitting stats, the cosmos prop mods have all around better stats on things like cap penalty, speed bonus, and activation cost. On niche fits it might be important.
how much value does that provide? I don't know, but I'm not willing to hold on to anything relating to the production of the cosmos prop mods to find out
@ChainsawPlankto
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Malachite Ormand
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 01:14:58 -
[112] - Quote
As a new player I find it a little difficult to comment as I don't have a lot of experience. I would tend to agree with what Mynxee and Resra Tenjin have said. I've been working data sites mostly so the changes are welcome. |
Balsak
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 04:35:29 -
[113] - Quote
Mynxee wrote:
I always fit both Relic and Data analyzers so forcing use of one or the other doesn't bother me, but also not opposed to the idea of one module that is scripted for either Relic or Data hacking. If that were ever to happen, I would want my time invested in training to use T2 analyzers comped somehow or applied in some useful way...dare I suggest T2 scripts?
This would be an absolutely awesome idea.
One thing I personally would like to see changed is the randomness of the isk value changed. I think a more consistent value of loot would be a lot more fun than the lottery feel it currently has. Compared to other isk making activities in the game it's just way too random. It's already very luck driven given the fact you have to actually find the sites in the first place but it's kind of annoying when you may get a few million in loot out of a site or maybe get 100 million worth of loot. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
52095
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 06:26:49 -
[114] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Ransu Asanari wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Based on feedback, I'm updating all the Ghost sites to Cosmic Signatures from Anomalies as well. Besieged sites will remain as Anomalies. (and without the required use of the Data Analyzer)
It's been added to the list on the front page. I'd really prefer to see the Besieged sites as Cosmic Signatures, for the reasons I posted here. The Ghost Sites changing to Cosmic Signatures is nice, but it doesn't make a huge impact. They can't be camped because the trigger starts as soon as someone warps to them, and they despawn fairly quickly afterwards. They also spawn in Highsec, where the Besieged Sites only spawn in Lowsec. Any particular reason you're preferring to keep the Besieged sites as Anomalies? Reason being that Besieged sites are more of a combat site than a 'Data' exploration site. Thus the 'less positive' feedback of adding the Data Analyzer as a requirement for the site as it adds more complications to the fitting choice of players wishing to run these Besieged sites. Well, Cosmic Signatures have Combat sites as well. Since Besieged sites are basically classified as Combat sites I see no reason not to add them to Cosmic Signatures other than the fact that PvP'ers can get some easy targets with them as Cosmic Anomalies. If Besieged sites were moved to Cosmic Signatures they would probably get a lot more usage since most veteran explorers ignore Cosmic Anomalies.
As a long time high skilled explorer, I currently bypass most Cosmic Anomalies due to the fact it's easy killmail collection for PvP'ers. At least with Cosmic Signatures explorers can get a small advance notice from D-scan showing probes in the general area.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Geebeebs Momaki
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 07:09:32 -
[115] - Quote
I've mentioned this to Chance a few months ago, but I think having all of the cans thoughout our universe dropping the same items is not immersive. You would think that cans in Amarr space would hold different items than cans in Caldari space. Exploration is something you can do from day one. From a new player perspective I find flying into a wormhole, and finding the same stuff that I can find anywhere in high sec anticlimactic.
Anyway, thanks for allowing us to give you input. it's really a great game as it is, and you're never going to please everyone. Just thought I'd add my two rupies worth.
Hugs, Geebs
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
384
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 07:32:51 -
[116] - Quote
That used to be the case, as Decryptors used to be racial. When Industry was simplified in Crius, they were homogenized, which is why all regions drop the same ones now. I'm not sure if different regions drop different Datacores, but those were rebalanced as well, so it's a fairly moot point. The rare drop loot used for building Storyline items will still be racial however. |
Rice Eason
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 08:09:24 -
[117] - Quote
Thank you for looking at exploration CCP RedDawn! I am new to the career but have highly enjoyed the content thus far and I strongly agree with your philosophy on adding more value to data sites to hopefully bring them in line with relic sites. I know a number of fellow explorers which don't fit data analyzers or don't feel the need put skill points into hacking due to the usually disappointing value of data site loot.
One thing I've always thought of was to include the occasional flavor item in the container just something that might add a little touch of lore or humor that is relevant to the faction. We are explorers after all, piecing together the story of ancient ruins is in our job description ;)
Keep up the good work!
Rice.
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SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
164
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 10:25:24 -
[118] - Quote
If it's a choice between a cargo scanner or the ability to pvp with a little inconvenience with the cans, the choice is very easy for me. The question was, what do I think of them on covops. I think they don't fit for me. I appreciate them giving people a little edge with deciding which cans to take and which to leave, but I don't think the cans are fairly balanced as long as there is a chance to get literally nothing out of the most valuable ones.
I'd be happy if the lowest reward was on the level of maybe 50k isk or something. Pocket change, but at least something. |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
543
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 13:06:37 -
[119] - Quote
Rice Eason wrote:Thank you for looking at exploration CCP RedDawn! I am new to the career but have highly enjoyed the content thus far and I strongly agree with your philosophy on adding more value to data sites to hopefully bring them in line with relic sites. I know a number of fellow explorers which don't fit data analyzers or don't feel the need put skill points into hacking due to the usually disappointing value of data site loot.
One thing I've always thought of was to include the occasional flavor item in the container just something that might add a little touch of lore or humor that is relevant to the faction. We are explorers after all, piecing together the story of ancient ruins is in our job description ;)
Keep up the good work!
Rice.
That's a pretty fun idea. You mean like dropping the holiday joke items in the cans at like 0.5% frequency?
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3201
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 20:26:02 -
[120] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site.
Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers. I'm all for changes like this that increase the demand on player ability and potentially harm them if mistakes are made. As long as they're fair. An alarm based Defensive Subsystem inside the hacking UI was one of the initial goals that had to be dropped due to time constraints, but it's something I would like to see revisited in the future. A relic based alternative is something I would like to do in tandem with that change. Fairness is the ultimate key to this kind of thing, it should not exclude newer players but still have an equal chance of damaging or destroying a veteran player.
A counter argument to placing an alarm system inside the hacking UI is something like that does give older players an advantage over a newer player in the same site.
My thought was something outside the hacking UI that would require interaction to evade or overcome. Whether that be destroying an object or disable through another needed instance of hacking. Or if the player is careful or fast at hacking they may be able to completely ignore and rush the site.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Marech Bhayanaka
Misfits United I N G L O R I O U S
58
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 23:20:04 -
[121] - Quote
Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:I do not understand why relic and data sites ever dropped differing levels of loot. One is not easier than the other. They have the exact same risk. I suspect the idea was just to make them have different loot, because variety is interesting. But as soon as you make the loot different, market forces will cause one kind of site to become more valuable than the other.
Marech. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3201
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 02:18:13 -
[122] - Quote
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:I do not understand why relic and data sites ever dropped differing levels of loot. One is not easier than the other. They have the exact same risk. I suspect the idea was just to make them have different loot, because variety is interesting. But as soon as you make the loot different, market forces will cause one kind of site to become more valuable than the other. Marech. Again, relic sites maintain better loot value because Rigs are made for salvage materials and Rigs are constantly being destroyed either by ships or by changing rigs.
Datacores that come from data sites are required for Invention but are able to be farmed from 2 other sources. Decryptors are completely optional for the invention process and thus have fluctuating demand.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1795
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 18:00:42 -
[123] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: Also as I have been suggesting since the change there must be some form of danger in Data and Relic sites, this would also help to make the sites valuable again as not all players would make it out with there loot, it doesn't need to be in the form of rats but some sort of danger and chance of losing the ship needs to be there, the sleeper sites were a good example of how to make a profitable sites with mostly environmental dangers.
The danger in the sites largely comes from other players. This is a good thing.
Adding some environmental damage is a bad idea, since you just limit what ships the hunters can use.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1795
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 18:07:30 -
[124] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site.
Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers. I'm all for changes like this that increase the demand on player ability and potentially harm them if mistakes are made. As long as they're fair. An alarm based Defensive Subsystem inside the hacking UI was one of the initial goals that had to be dropped due to time constraints, but it's something I would like to see revisited in the future. A relic based alternative is something I would like to do in tandem with that change.
All this does is make the sites safer to run, since it means that a hunter cannot sit cloaked in the site.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Valder Ripley
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
65
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 08:08:07 -
[125] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Note: The similarities of the Data and Relic hacking game are known, as is the Cargo Scanning/Cherry Picking of containers. Both of these are outside the scope of my free time right now however but are not forgotten.
Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Well, as a dedicated explorer I don-¦t care too much about the content of loot - I always expect nothing and I never would use a cargo scanner for cherry picking, because I would miss the excitement of the unexpected
Of course I welcome the data site changes, because at the moment the results are usually a little bit unsatisfying.
The most disappointing fact to me is the similarity in hacking the sites (or rather the design of the sites). A great example, how exploring and hacking should be, are the sleeper caches - they are so awesome!
Fly safe and kindest regards from the EvE-Scouts and all members of the Signal Cartel! Valder Ripley o7
Do not go gentle into that good night,
though wise men at their end know dark is right,
rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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J0rj Lmoz
EVE University Ivy League
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 20:48:19 -
[126] - Quote
Just end the Cherry Picking and make the containers immune to cargo scanners.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3206
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 11:35:17 -
[127] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote: Also as I have been suggesting since the change there must be some form of danger in Data and Relic sites, this would also help to make the sites valuable again as not all players would make it out with there loot, it doesn't need to be in the form of rats but some sort of danger and chance of losing the ship needs to be there, the sleeper sites were a good example of how to make a profitable sites with mostly environmental dangers.
The danger in the sites largely comes from other players. This is a good thing. Adding some environmental damage is a bad idea, since you just limit what ships the hunters can use. Most explorers usually lose ships on there way to the site or on there way back to sell the loot, as I have previously stated, most explorers who are doing a hacking site find it a bad practice to do any hacking containers if they are not alone in the system.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Kayden Katelo
Mythic Heights
9
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 19:05:56 -
[128] - Quote
Cargo Scanners: For data sites, yes. For relic sites, no. Flavor should also be considered. As an archaeologist how could I possibly scan a site (can) and know what is in it? Surely immersion counts for something?
Regarding relic sites, why not include in the loot tables the "texts" that can be found from other PvE activity that describes the various histories of the factions in New Eden? Again to add flavor and further enhance the lore.
Relic and Data modules: I have mentioned this before and will do so again. There was a time when these modules meant something. Their differences actually meant something. Odyssey has homogenized them. Do not blend them into a single module. Iterate on them. Make relic sites OLD. Even a reskinning of the mini game would be an improvement.
Actually, why am I hacking a relic site? Should I not be unearthing that which was lost and forgotten? DO not take away from the game, add to it and iterate.
There was a time what exploration was hard with a high barrier for entry. This kept loot values high. YOu had to choose how far you where going to invest in the profession. There was flavor. Over time changes where made that reduced the "busy" work. This was good. Odyssey then removed the barrier for entry. OK. Everyone can explore. Goal obtained.
Now, lets think about the veterans. Lets consider those that have been playing for more than five plus years. Time to make some elements of exploration hard again please. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
400
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 10:19:49 -
[129] - Quote
Kayden Katelo wrote:Regarding relic sites, why not include in the loot tables the "texts" that can be found from other PvE activity that describes the various histories of the factions in New Eden? Again to add flavor and further enhance the lore.(...)Actually, why am I hacking a relic site? Should I not be unearthing that which was lost and forgotten? DO not take away from the game, add to it and iterate... Relic sites are actually salvaging sites, you don't discover anything there.
Kayden Katelo wrote:Now, lets think about the veterans. Lets consider those that have been playing for more than five plus years. Time to make some elements of exploration hard again please. They did. Sleepers sites are for more experienced players.
Kayden Katelo wrote:There was a time what exploration was hard with a high barrier for entry. This kept loot values high. YOu had to choose how far you where going to invest in the profession. There was flavor. Over time changes where made that reduced the "busy" work. This was good. Odyssey then removed the barrier for entry. OK. Everyone can explore. Goal obtained. I agree with you here, but loot from sites is used in economy, for example rigs are more usefull now (it's good for everybody). NPC buy orders make "blue loot" from sleepers site more or less stable (just depend how many you found them).
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
160
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 10:28:04 -
[130] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Note: The similarities of the Data and Relic hacking game are known, as is the Cargo Scanning/Cherry Picking of containers. It would be nice to see some variation between data and relic sites, although I don't see any reason to remove the ability to cargo scan the containers.
Some people like to blitz missions for the LP and others like to run them and salvage all the wrecks. I don't see any reason to remove this and along the same lines I don't see any reason to remove options for running exploration sites.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
160
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 10:33:05 -
[131] - Quote
Valder Ripley wrote:Well, as a dedicated explorer I don-¦t care too much about the content of loot - I always expect nothing and I never would use a cargo scanner for cherry picking, because I would miss the excitement of the unexpected Quite the opposite. If you scan the container first and find a faction tower or such then you will feel a similar kind of rush that you would get in PvP when you are hacking the container (especially if someone else jumps into system while you are in the middle of the hack).
Why take away options to run exploration sites. If you don't like cargo scanning then you don't have to do so, but there is no need to remove it for others that do prefer to.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Kayden Katelo
Mythic Heights
10
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 18:06:25 -
[132] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Relic sites are actually salvaging sites, you don't discover anything there.
And it is this that is missing the point. Iterate.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:They did. Sleepers sites are for more experienced players.
That is true. It is also formulaic. Why not develop procedural based sites? Something that cannot be documented and standard operating procedures not created for.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:I agree with you here, but loot from sites is used in economy, for example rigs are more usefull now (it's good for everybody). NPC buy orders make "blue loot" from sleepers site more or less stable (just depend how many you found them).
Loot can be used for whatever the player desires. Economic gain is a major factor but does not need to be the only thing to consider. |
Robert Warner
Back Door Burglars The Otherworld
124
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 18:34:03 -
[133] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site.
Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers. I'm all for changes like this that increase the demand on player ability and potentially harm them if mistakes are made. As long as they're fair. An alarm based Defensive Subsystem inside the hacking UI was one of the initial goals that had to be dropped due to time constraints, but it's something I would like to see revisited in the future. A relic based alternative is something I would like to do in tandem with that change.
I am not a relic/data runner myself, but I do notice many new players engaging in the activity and it's also one of the income faucets that draws new players into more dangerous space. This is, I think, a great thing since it encourages players to get their feet wet in what many consider as the 'real EVE experience' . Here they learn how to survive in the dog-eat-dog universe.
It would be nice, however, if the data/relic loot drops could be diversified a little to include some really great sites in dangerous space which entail low risk to run (bearing in mind that mostly newer players engage in the activity - they won't have a fully armed T3 cruiser on the case).
Consider placing some special modules into the highest tiers of relic and data sites, with a focus on data in particular - there is ample room for new 'faction grade' modules where currently no such variants are available. I list a few examples below:
Blueprints for faction micro jump drives Drone implants (yes I know it's controversial, but surely drone speed and drone endurance can be done without impacting ship balance significantly) Some future skill books which will not be seeded onto the market?
It is important that any upgrade to these sites does not simply adjust the quantities of what they already drop, otherwise the only effects will be to shift preference from one type of site to the other or simply manipulate the market value of the dropped items and thus no effect on the engaging player's experience. Coming up with novel items to place into these sites is one means to ensure buyer demand.
At present the higher end sites do not stand out sufficiently from the lower end ones. There's little to call 'unique' about them, to excite the discoverer that he/she might be in for a treat when they see it pop up on their scan.
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Kayden Katelo
Mythic Heights
10
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 18:57:00 -
[134] - Quote
I have said in various threads that iteration of existing modules and mechanics is the solution to creating a more rich and dynamic playing environment. Unfortunately I have not been providing ideas for this. Let me correct that now. So let me toss out this idea for people to mull over because in this thread there is an active CCP reader and two CSM readers.
In the distant past archology in EvE was a thing. That evolved into Relic sites. As was pointed out, nothing to discover there just collect your loot. You see, we do not need salvagers on our ships anymore. Once upon that was a thing.
I see an interesting opportunity arising very soon. EvE has all these beautiful planets and some of those have moons. Moons served two purposes: Harvesting and Player Owned Station anchoring. Soon the POS requirements will not need moons unless you are harvesting (unless that is also being changed).
One of the contributing factors to null sec stagnation is that moon resources are stagnant. Moon scans completed years ago are still relevant now as then (Check out Dotlan an scan a moon. It's still the same. Don't take my word for it. Try it). Alliances settled in moon rich regions and fortified them to protect their economies. There have been many fights over moon ownership. Let us kick the ant hill and take a page out of PI: Moon resources are finite. A moonGÇÖs resources last no more than four to six months depending on the intensity of the harvesting. Now the moon is barren, economically unsustainable and will require double or triple the time to recover.
Now I need to go a scan other moons to find what I need. I have to actively seek the resources I need. Or I could hire someone. Maybe my alliance has explorers that can do this.
Planets and moons are interesting heavenly bodies. In our own time we are discovering absolutely fascinating things about them. SciFi writers also imagine amazing things about them. Archaeology would fit beautifully here. Scan a system and discover a cosmic signature. Is it a data site in space? Is it a relic site to be salvage? Could it be an archaeology site on a moon or planet?
Surface based sites on moons could require a player to go into orbit, scan to pinpoint the siteGÇÖs location and once found require a GÇ£digGÇ¥ (variation of the hacking mini game?) to be executed with a chance of loot recovered.
How about all those planets with abandoned PI facilities? Maybe the archaeology signature brings you to a planet. Maybe ice or barren or temperate planets have a great change of archaeology sites? Maybe you can attempt to recover abandoned PI related facilities or loot for economic gain.
TLDR:
Five exploration career variations:
1)Data site recovery. Space based. Data analyzer 2)Relic site recovery. Space based. Salvager (add a mini game variation is desired) 3)Archaeology recover. Surface based. Relic analyzer (add mini game variation) 4)Resources discovery. Moon scans as already being (been) conducted. Service or results to be sold. 5)Mini game for hacking unoccupied POSes (citadels). This is closely related to data recovery. Mini game could be a real challenge. Might make hacking tools something that an explorer could build for themselves if not a market item to be bought and sold.
Finally, remove the 4au spawn restriction. There was a time you need to warp to each planet, use the onboard 4au scanner to determine if anything was about. Over time this was changed to eventually evolve into the Discovery Scanner. Now that the Discovery Scanner is so powerful, why have the old 4au restriction? After all Citadels can be deployed anywhere within a system.
These are the ideas. They can be expanded upon, refined or scraped. One thing is for sure, the basic game mechanics already exist. Why not take advantage of them. Expand exploration into a proper career choice that it once was before Odyssey.
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Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
13
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 23:21:07 -
[135] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:
The intention of this change is to hopefully boost the overall value of all Data sites, increase the manufacturing of Storyline modules, increase the demand for Cosmos site blueprints and increase the value of the most commonly dropped building materials.
CCP RedDawn
I might be missing something in your post, but how will these change encourage manufacturing more Storyline modules?
I know some of them are useful and sell well, but others are simply not worth the effort/time/resources. I have a bunch of BPCs and parts that have been sitting in my hangar for (I think) about nine years. It might be that I've just been unlucky in picking up things like 'Balefire' rocket launchers that are supposedly Meta 6 but are actually Meta 1 with a fancy green blob, but at the moment there is no incentive to go and pick up the (expensive) skills and rare parts necessary to build them.
So in order to achieve your objective, could you do something interesting with Storyline modules to give players a better reason to seek / build / buy them ? Instead of reduced fitting requirements how about changing their characteristics?
E.g. Shield resistance mods that protect against two damage types, but only at (say) 40%, i.e. half way between the specific hardener and the adaptive variant?
E.g. Armour reinforcement plating that also gives a bonus to structure HP
E.g. Gas cloud harvesters that give a bonus to collection rate for booster gases (but not fullerenes)
E.g. ECM modules that are effective against two sensor types. At the moment why would I buy a Storyline version which is less effective and more difficult to fit that a Meta 4 variant? It's not worth the slot space.
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
400
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 07:29:31 -
[136] - Quote
Kayden Katelo wrote:stuff More exploration in exploration "Dinsdale cloud" <- I miss this guy There were also exploration project tied with WiS. Avatar exploration like in one of fanfest trailers (2012).
Kayden Katelo wrote:Why not develop procedural based sites? Something that cannot be documented and standard operating procedures created for. I asking that question for a long time now, it's some technical problem I think.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
955
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 07:30:26 -
[137] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:What are the thoughts on things like volatile pieces of wreckage in Relic sites which can explode and damage the ship, or corrosive gas clouds to slowly damage the entering ship to include some danger to the site.
Or for Data sites, an alarm unit that unless successfully hack will alert rats, or deploy mines to safe guard the data containers. I'm all for changes like this that increase the demand on player ability and potentially harm them if mistakes are made. As long as they're fair. An alarm based Defensive Subsystem inside the hacking UI was one of the initial goals that had to be dropped due to time constraints, but it's something I would like to see revisited in the future. A relic based alternative is something I would like to do in tandem with that change.
Make it so....
No Worries
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Fenix Inferni
Dark Fenix Rising
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 11:22:57 -
[138] - Quote
Finally some rebalance of data sites ! Was talking to a friend only couple weeks ago that BPC shouldn't drop in relic :)
However i'd move even Rigs BPCs from relic to data while leaving the most commonly used building materials as they are (halve the drop is still good in my opinion) and move the ancient construction parts to relic sites only, that simply makes more sense:
Data site --> Research --> BPC/Common building materials/Decryptors/Datacores Relic site --> Wrecks/Archeological discoveries --> Salvage/Ancient Construction Parts
Even chance of some danger in signatures is nice idea, just it should be related to the ship used to run/trigger them (that will still allow low skilled characters (new players) to do explo.
Just my 2 cents
o7 |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3208
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 11:25:30 -
[139] - Quote
We lost out sticky status :(
To our CSM members and the dev team who is in charge of PVE, is there any point where you might look to form a focus group to look at the overall state of exploration?
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
717
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 11:37:46 -
[140] - Quote
Thank you all for your awesome feedback, concerns and ideas here. They are all very much appreciated and have been noted. Some very valuable points raised through out and I'm sure that together we'll get exploration to a wonderful state in the near future.
Team Space Glitter
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
127
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Posted - 2015.10.12 15:27:57 -
[141] - Quote
I'm going to use this thread to shamelessly restate an old annoyance of mine: Restoration Nodes. I am no longer too frustrated with them but only because I have such a specialized fit for Relic sites that I can brute-force through most puzzles involving them, but I still believe their implementation to be bad, and here's why.
This one node is the only one that has no gameplay around it. You simply must attack it straight away or it will overheal other nodes to unholy amounts. Even attacking it right away means taking a hit, 2 if you're using a T1 hacking module, and suffering the heal effect the corresponding number of times. With any other node I can plan around it, decide to use a consumable or hit it right away. This one has no such decision-making, since the effect is way too powerful.
-But muh Virus Supressors!- I hear you cry. These are a slightly different beast, since they don't keep dicking you after their initial effect. Here you do have a real decision: keep exploring with the risk of running into something and not having all your Virus Strength, or lose Coherence to destroy it.
My suggestions on how to change it: - Make Res. Nodes not heal when you're attacking them. You already take damage from the node itself, no need to also add coherence to the Firewall next to the Core. - Make restoration nodes be unable to overheal so much. At the moment the cap is somewhere in the vicinity of 400 coherence iirc, if you lower it to a more resonable level, say 1.5x-2x the original coherence of a node, then leaving the Res. Node alive will be just a risk, not a instant loss.
I realize this might be a lot of work and part of you initial design for the minigame that had to be left in an incomplete state. I will also reiterate that I no longer rage so much these things since I found a way around them, but it would be nice to have this particular detail iterated on if you find the time. |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
721
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 16:32:13 -
[142] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:I'm going to use this thread to shamelessly restate an old annoyance of mine: Restoration Nodes. I am no longer too frustrated with them but only because I have such a specialized fit for Relic sites that I can brute-force through most puzzles involving them, but I still believe their implementation to be bad, and here's why.
This one node is the only one that has no gameplay around it. You simply must attack it straight away or it will overheal other nodes to unholy amounts. Even attacking it right away means taking a hit, 2 if you're using a T1 hacking module, and suffering the heal effect the corresponding number of times. With any other node I can plan around it, decide to use a consumable or hit it right away. This one has no such decision-making, since the effect is way too powerful.
-But muh Virus Supressors!- I hear you cry. These are a slightly different beast, since they don't keep dicking you after their initial effect. Here you do have a real decision: keep exploring with the risk of running into something and not having all your Virus Strength, or lose Coherence to destroy it.
My suggestions on how to change it: - Make Res. Nodes not heal when you're attacking them. You already take damage from the node itself, no need to also add coherence to the Firewall next to the Core. - Make restoration nodes be unable to overheal so much. At the moment the cap is somewhere in the vicinity of 400 coherence iirc, if you lower it to a more resonable level, say 1.5x-2x the original coherence of a node, then leaving the Res. Node alive will be just a risk, not a instant loss.
I realize this might be a lot of work and part of you initial design for the minigame that had to be left in an incomplete state. I will also reiterate that I no longer rage so much these things since I found a way around them, but it would be nice to have this particular detail iterated on if you find the time.
If I get around to introducing new flavours of subsystems, I'll be sure to look into the thought of changing the Restoration node to only boost when not being attacked.
Team Space Glitter
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Chris Daylight
EVE-INDY Alternate Allegiance
10
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Posted - 2015.10.12 22:11:43 -
[143] - Quote
"* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies."
??? Well there goes the world wide roaming ghoast site ship fit out the airlock, I tougth they were hard enougth to find already.
Honestly the 4 exploding can Ghoastsite is the last thing i have in eve i like to do. Im welcomeing change but mixing them together with normal data signatures sounds evil.
If you change. At least cal them Ghoastsite in the scan window & Not "Data".
No fixing Relic sites in droneland??
Why not add a super smal chance of more diverse reaserch materials for data & Manufacturing for Relic making Explorers more valuble for local null manufacturing. +A very low % of datacores in dronelands.
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
129
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 10:05:02 -
[144] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: If I get around to introducing new flavours of subsystems, I'll be sure to look into the thought of changing the Restoration node to only boost when not being attacked.
Thanks!
Chris Daylight wrote:??? Well there goes the world wide roaming ghoast site ship fit out the airlock, I tougth they were hard enougth to find already.
Ghost sites are so rare that a dedicated ship just for them is, quite honeslty, a silly idea. If you read the posts before that announcement, you'll find plenty of reasons to move them to signatures and how that could, hopefully, increase the number of them done by dedicated explorers as opposed to ratters blowing them up out of ignorance. |
Vargo Shahni
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.10.13 22:50:47 -
[145] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: * All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
Is there any chance that this decision could be reversed?
Personally, I dream of finding a High-grade Ascendancy Omega Blueprint, which I believe are only found in Wormhole Ghost Sites. Having only found these Ghost sites in class 4 and class 5 wormholes I take every opportunity to splash into these classes of wormholes. As up to this point in time Ghost sites have been anomalies I can check in just a few seconds if one is present and splash out if not. If they become signatures then my few seconds becomes many minutes as I have to work my way through all the signatures, which can often be double digit in number.
If it is to proceed, will they continue to be combat sites or will they become data sites? If they stay as combat sites then apart from people who run them being a little safer from other players intervention there is little benefit, just that all explorers interested in this content will have to get a 75% signal on all combat sites to check if they have found a ghost site, rather than getting a 25% signal and automatically dismissing the combat site. If they become data sites then a lot of new explorers are going to be mightily surprised when the rats turn up. For experienced players,who don't run data sites due to the up until now poor return, will again need that 75% signal on all data sites to check if it is a rare ghost site.
PS love your efforts to get data sites more on a par with relic sites.
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Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 05:29:59 -
[146] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:So for your perusal, I'll list the proposed changes to data sites now.
* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites) * Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites. (Info Shard, Com Tower, Mainframe and Databank) * Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables. * All exploration Ghost Sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module. * Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc) * All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
data sites will still suck, and making ghost sites need the data scanner wastes a mid slot in my ship. and what's the deal with data sites giving out useless trade commodities like high tech weapons? |
Fermin Mascagranzas
Uranus Intruders Test Alliance Please Ignore
16
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Posted - 2015.10.14 06:00:52 -
[147] - Quote
I think the right direction would be to look at the main use of the main goodies dropping from these.
Relic sites drop mainly components fro T1 and T2 rig production. Rigs are always in high demand not only as a key component of every ship, but also a non reusable one, destructed on remove and never dropped from a wreck, so a high value is guaranteed.
Data sites main goodies are related to research T1 to T2. To increase Data sites value the researching should change in some of this ways:
- Requiring a higher amount of the mandatory materials ( datacores, components ) - Making some of the optional components mandatory - Making the optional components more attractive ( either increasing runs, material eff or succes chance higher using them or making them lower without using them )
The vast majority of guides about research I have read, remark how unnecessary and even cost-ineffective optional research items are.
Of course a simpler and maybe easier ways to increase the relative value would be to reduce/elliminate other means of obtaining them.
On unrelated note, It will be great to make ghost sites only reachable by scanning means, lots of them are screwed by people that warp to them unknowingly of what they are, or wallet tanking the site with a rookie/T1 frig and T1 modules, or directly screws them for the lulz. Let them to serious explorers. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
400
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 11:22:34 -
[148] - Quote
Can we have signtaures removed from probe scanner and solar system map? So we can actually feel like exploring and finding something.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3211
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 11:31:18 -
[149] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Can we have signtaures removed from probe scanner and solar system map? So we can actually feel like exploring and finding something. What you are referring to is known as the discovery scanner, and it is part of what has helped to kill exploration loot values as well as the feeling of discovery. It did bring about a good change though as cosmic anomalies used to be hidden until a single scan was done.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
400
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 11:35:41 -
[150] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:What you are referring to is known as the discovery scanner, and it is part of what has helped to kill exploration loot values as well as the feeling of discovery. It did bring about a good change though as cosmic anomalies used to be hidden until a single scan was done. That why I'm talking about signatures only. I'm reading Sugar's blog lately, last post "Mastery and..." made me think exploration changes went too far.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3211
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Posted - 2015.10.14 12:25:54 -
[151] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:What you are referring to is known as the discovery scanner, and it is part of what has helped to kill exploration loot values as well as the feeling of discovery. It did bring about a good change though as cosmic anomalies used to be hidden until a single scan was done. That why I'm talking about signatures only. I'm reading Sugar's blog lately, last post "Mastery and..." made me think exploration changes went too far. They did, and some players, myself included, tried to get some of the changes reversed before they hit TQ. Removing sigs from the discovery scanner would bring back immersion and the feeling of discovery.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Iceburn1
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 01:58:22 -
[152] - Quote
BTW.... While you are at it, why don't you fix Drone Regions.
1. NO relic sites 2. Ghost sites are rare 3. NO sleeper sites 4. NO scanable 10/10 sites (highest is 5/10) A. 5/10 are not worth doing nor the escalations (risk vs reward) B. 10/10 as escalations pay outs are way under most other regions. 5. Faction spawns are useless and chips for SOE ships are rare. 6. Officer spawns. Complete Waist of Time!!!!
Using Wiki's and taking into account that one must rat in -.6 or lower. Belt counts must be very high in order to get an Officer spawn to make it worth while and in Drone Regions the lower the system the lower the belt counts; about 3-6 belts. So if i would rat a system with 2-3 spawns that respawn every 20 min It would be lots of luck or 3 years of my life (not counting people who can rat 12 hours a day ( then 7 month) to get an Officer spawn. That is ridiculous considering that there are regions where one can rat for 2 hours a day and get more then 3 Officer Spawns in a Month.
Drone Regions NEED LOVE TOO
Thank you
Ice |
Shurgin Ambraelle
Freighters Under Construction Support Services Bloodline.
20
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Posted - 2015.10.15 02:00:56 -
[153] - Quote
Iceburn1 wrote:BTW.... While you are at it, why don't you fix Drone Regions.
1. NO relic sites 2. Ghost sites are rare 3. NO sleeper sites 4. NO scanable 10/10 sites (highest is 5/10) A. 5/10 are not worth doing nor the escalations (risk vs reward) B. 10/10 as escalations pay outs are way under most other regions. 5. Faction spawns are useless and chips for SOE ships are rare. 6. Officer spawns. Complete Waist of Time!!!!
Using Wiki's and taking into account that one must rat in -.6 or lower. Belt counts must be very high in order to get an Officer spawn to make it worth while and in Drone Regions the lower the system the lower the belt counts; about 3-6 belts. So if i would rat a system with 2-3 spawns that respawn every 20 min It would be lots of luck or 3 years of my life (not counting people who can rat 12 hours a day ( then 7 month) to get an Officer spawn. That is ridiculous considering that there are regions where one can rat for 2 hours a day and get more then 3 Officer Spawns in a Month.
Drone Regions NEED LOVE TOO
Thank you
Ice
*Shurgin Gives ICE a hug!!
The Biggest FUCer of them all!! RL COMES 1ST!!
-The Gene Pool Could Use a Little Chlorine!!
Proud Member of Bloodline!!
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Fermin Mascagranzas
Uranus Intruders Test Alliance Please Ignore
16
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Posted - 2015.10.15 07:21:11 -
[154] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Hello all.
* All exploration Ghost Sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module. * All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
About these two changes, what type of cosmic signature will be the ghost sites?
I propose turning them from combat sites to Data sites, in accordance with the hacking module change. Many explorers with litle interest in NPC killing put the signature in ignore as soon as they uncover the "Combat Site" description while probing.
If they keep being combat sites, from now on 95% of this combat sites will keep being standard ignorable combat sites, but we will have to finsih off the scanning on all of them to see if it is a ghost site...
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Ayx Shewma
0scope Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 13:59:24 -
[155] - Quote
Have any of these changes been implemented yet? I've noticed... a difference in the loot from data sites. |
Alexiel Fireborn
V's Independant Vindicators F-I-N-K and Co.
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 16:20:37 -
[156] - Quote
i can suggest 2 ways to improve data sites ... 1st (easier) just add tiny chance for 1run Gecko BPC to data sites. Reasons are obvious 2nd (harder but more suitable) : add region faction bpc in data sites - for example - talisman bpc and blood raider modules/ships bpc in delve and querious . Cristal and dread guristas bpc for Vale of the silenty ... etc. |
Alexiel Fireborn
V's Independant Vindicators F-I-N-K and Co.
11
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:29:29 -
[157] - Quote
[quote=Shurgin Ambraelle][quote=Iceburn1]BTW.... While you are at it, why don't you fix Drone Regions.
1. NO relic sites 2. Ghost sites are rare 3. NO sleeper sites 4. NO scanable 10/10 sites (highest is 5/10) A. 5/10 are not worth doing nor the escalations (risk vs reward) B. 10/10 as escalations pay outs are way under most other regions. 5. Faction spawns are useless and chips for SOE ships are rare. 6. Officer spawns. Complete Waist of Time!!!!
Using Wiki's and taking into account that one must rat in -.6 or lower. Belt counts must be very high in order to get an Officer spawn to make it worth while and in Drone Regions the lower the system the lower the belt counts; about 3-6 belts. So if i would rat a system with 2-3 spawns that respawn every 20 min It would be lots of luck or 3 years of my life (not counting people who can rat 12 hours a day ( then 7 month) to get an Officer spawn. That is ridiculous considering that there are regions where one can rat for 2 hours a day and get more then 3 Officer Spawns in a Month.
Drone Regions NEED LOVE TOO
1 - agree 2- not so much 3 - agree 4 true 4.A - FALSE (i was in drone region and they definitely worth doing it - they give u between 150 and 300m if escalate) 4b. rofl drone 10/10 brings u between 400 and 600m each time (last my 2 blood raider naval shipyards were approx 200m each) 5. nope , they arent , one drone dmg amp is still worth 150m , and they didnt drop so rarely chips , one friend of mine do signatures only in drone region and make average 1.5b-2b per day 6. i killed drone officer once - drop 7b ... and if this waste of time for u ... gl |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
732
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 16:44:20 -
[158] - Quote
Fermin Mascagranzas wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Hello all.
* All exploration Ghost Sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module. * All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
About these two changes, what type of cosmic signature will be the ghost sites? I propose turning them from combat sites to Data sites, in accordance with the hacking module change. Many explorers with litle interest in NPC killing put the signature in ignore as soon as they uncover the "Combat Site" description while probing. If they keep being combat sites, from now on 95% of this combat sites will keep being standard ignorable combat sites, but we will have to finsih off the scanning on all of them to see if it is a ghost site...
The will appear as Data sites now.
Team Space Glitter
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
732
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 16:48:51 -
[159] - Quote
Alexiel Fireborn wrote:[quote=Shurgin Ambraelle][quote=Iceburn1]BTW.... While you are at it, why don't you fix Drone Regions.
1. NO relic sites 2. Ghost sites are rare 3. NO sleeper sites 4. NO scanable 10/10 sites (highest is 5/10) A. 5/10 are not worth doing nor the escalations (risk vs reward) B. 10/10 as escalations pay outs are way under most other regions. 5. Faction spawns are useless and chips for SOE ships are rare. 6. Officer spawns. Complete Waist of Time!!!!
Using Wiki's and taking into account that one must rat in -.6 or lower. Belt counts must be very high in order to get an Officer spawn to make it worth while and in Drone Regions the lower the system the lower the belt counts; about 3-6 belts. So if i would rat a system with 2-3 spawns that respawn every 20 min It would be lots of luck or 3 years of my life (not counting people who can rat 12 hours a day ( then 7 month) to get an Officer spawn. That is ridiculous considering that there are regions where one can rat for 2 hours a day and get more then 3 Officer Spawns in a Month.
Drone Regions NEED LOVE TOO
1 - agree 2- not so much 3 - agree 4 true 4.A - FALSE (i was in drone region and they definitely worth doing it - they give u between 150 and 300m if escalate) 4b. rofl drone 10/10 brings u between 400 and 600m each time (last my 2 blood raider naval shipyards were approx 200m each) 5. nope , they arent , one drone dmg amp is still worth 150m , and they didnt drop so rarely chips , one friend of mine do signatures only in drone region and make average 1.5b-2b per day 6. i killed drone officer once - drop 7b ... and if this waste of time for u ... gl
Unfortunately, I don't have the spare time to go on a fixing spree right now, but the concerns over the Drone Regions are already known and something that should definitely be tackled in the future.
Team Space Glitter
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Laris Torch
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 17:50:12 -
[160] - Quote
Ayx Shewma wrote:Have any of these changes been implemented yet? I've noticed... a difference in the loot from data sites. Or do you have an estimate on when this will be implemented? |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
733
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 17:59:33 -
[161] - Quote
Laris Torch wrote:Ayx Shewma wrote:Have any of these changes been implemented yet? I've noticed... a difference in the loot from data sites. Or do you have an estimate on when this will be implemented?
None of these changes have been implemented and I have yet to set a release date for these. This thread was all about garnering feedback and ideas and it's been successful at that in my opinion.
That being said, I'd love to get these done and released sooner rather than later. So sorry, no exact date yet but keep an eye on the feature/patch notes.
Team Space Glitter
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
823
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 18:25:45 -
[162] - Quote
I personally liked the old skool data sites where I had to kill some NPCs before I could hack the can. |
Circumstantial Evidence
232
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 19:16:15 -
[163] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:I personally liked the old skool data sites where I had to kill some NPCs before I could hack the can. The time taken up with shooting rats, was turned into the time taken up solving the puzzles to open the cans. I think the non-combat aspect needs to be preserved. Aside from mining / trading / industry, so much of PvE revolves around shooting stuff. I think this change was a good one, adding a new low-key activity. It can lead to some tense moments, depending on where you are doing it. |
Circumstantial Evidence
232
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:28:52 -
[164] - Quote
Alexiel Fireborn wrote:i can suggest 2 ways to improve data sites ... 1st (easier) just add tiny chance for 1run Gecko BPC to data sites. Reasons are obvious 2nd (harder but more suitable) : add region faction bpc in data sites - for example - talisman bpc and blood raider modules/ships bpc in delve and querious . Cristal and dread guristas bpc for Vale of the silenty ... etc. I think that Data sites will still be less popular than Relic sites, after this change. Relic has a higher value because the demand for the loot has always been strong. Data site loot does not apply to nearly every ship that is built, unlike Rigs which are applied to nearly every ship. I don't think the proposed changes will do enough to bring parity with Relic loot value... if that is even a goal. Some folks are hoping storyline modules will get buffed a little bit over time, increasing demand for the materials to make them. But adding in chances for some other interesting BPC's as you suggest, would be welcome. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
825
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 19:41:05 -
[165] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:I personally liked the old skool data sites where I had to kill some NPCs before I could hack the can. The time taken up with shooting rats, was turned into the time taken up solving the puzzles to open the cans. I think the non-combat aspect needs to be preserved. Aside from mining / trading / industry, so much of PvE revolves around shooting stuff. I think this change was a good one, adding a new low-key activity. It can lead to some tense moments, depending on where you are doing it.
That is essentially what EVE is about. Blowing up spaceship pixels. If I wanted a mind-numbing puzzle, I'd just go find something similar in the Apple App store.
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Ayx Shewma
0scope Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 23:10:15 -
[166] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Circumstantial Evidence wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:I personally liked the old skool data sites where I had to kill some NPCs before I could hack the can. The time taken up with shooting rats, was turned into the time taken up solving the puzzles to open the cans. I think the non-combat aspect needs to be preserved. Aside from mining / trading / industry, so much of PvE revolves around shooting stuff. I think this change was a good one, adding a new low-key activity. It can lead to some tense moments, depending on where you are doing it. That is essentially what EVE is about. Blowing up spaceship pixels. If I wanted a mind-numbing puzzle, I'd just go find something similar in the Apple App store.
wormholes are what you are looking for.
inb4: more excuses
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Bobb Bobbington
The Cult of the Rare Pepes
65
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 23:29:33 -
[167] - Quote
Do you have a complete list of the data site drops you will be changing? It'd be nice if there weren't any that were mostly worthless like there are today. |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
734
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 11:15:53 -
[168] - Quote
Bobb Bobbington wrote:Do you have a complete list of the data site drops you will be changing? It'd be nice if there weren't any that were mostly worthless like there are today.
Edit- If you wanted to make data sites more valuable, what if you just flat out increased the amount required for the mostly worthless ones in constructing items? I realize this may hurt some industry, with large stockpiles of items causing you to manufacture at a cost, but I'm just putting it on the table.
All the Takmahl, Talocan, Yan Jung and Sleeper Cosmos items, plus the extra pirate faction items found in Cosmos sites. In the future I'd rather improve Data Sites by adding more unique items and also change the currently dropped useless loot into building materials instead. The surplus items you speak of from Data Sites have had its loot amount drop halved.
Team Space Glitter
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LordInvisible
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 12:43:14 -
[169] - Quote
This is actually nerf to Relics + making data sites harder and not much more valuable to do them.
Dont even bother coding this changes and rather focus on some real changes that would make an impact, not some sand in the eyes type of changes.. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
404
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 12:46:46 -
[170] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:All the Takmahl, Talocan, Yan Jung and Sleeper Cosmos items, plus the extra pirate faction items found in Cosmos sites. In the future I'd rather improve Data Sites by adding more unique items and also change the currently dropped useless loot into building materials instead. If you talking about hand weapons and such let them be. I would rather add some of those to relic sites with very low volume (0,01m3). They are giving flavor to the sites.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Bobb Bobbington
The Cult of the Rare Pepes
65
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 13:42:06 -
[171] - Quote
LordInvisible wrote:This is actually nerf to Relics + making data sites harder and not much more valuable to do them.
Dont even bother coding this changes and rather focus on some real changes that would make an impact, not some sand in the eyes type of changes..
How would these make data sites harder? People have been complaining about worthless data sites for ages, it's good somebody's finally taking a notice.
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Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 17:11:19 -
[172] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Making Ghost sites Sigs and not Anoms is something i'll look into tomorrow and I'll let you know the outcome. I really think this would be a good change. Since the Besieged Covert Research Facilities are only spawned in Lowsec, you put yourself at an amount of danger that doesn't justify the risk. I personally have passed many of them up when roaming around through Lowsec, in favor of looking for DED Complexes and Expeditions. It's the amount of time/difficulty as running a DED site, but with more chance of being warp scrambled by rats, and being warpable to if anyone comes into system. Because of the high DPS you also need very specific fits, so it's very difficult to defend yourself if someone does try to grab you. If they were Cosmic Signatures, you could at least have the warning of Core/Combat Probes on you to give you a chance to get out. With DED sites you have even more safety because the further into the site you are, the more acceleration gates have to be traversed to get to you. You can set your DSCAN to 100,000km and know when someone is actually trying to get to you. Since the Besieged Covert Facility Sites don't have acceleration gates, making them Cosmic Signatures would only provide a little more safety, as you can still be combat scanned directly onto.
Actually, it is comparably safe to run them. Dropping a mobile depot and having stabs in your cargohold is mandatory. If local spikes, refit and get away. Any soloer or small gang that tries to catch you will be taken care of by the rats due to aggression switch mechanics. I like them as they are, although I still feel the loot table has changed recently (yes, feel - in reality I was ofc just very unlucky the last weeks). And please do not change them to signatures, I do not want to carry my prober with me all the time. |
Ayx Shewma
0scope Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 00:50:18 -
[173] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:All the Takmahl, Talocan, Yan Jung and Sleeper Cosmos items, plus the extra pirate faction items found in Cosmos sites. In the future I'd rather improve Data Sites by adding more unique items and also change the currently dropped useless loot into building materials instead. If you talking about hand weapons and such let them be. I would rather add some of those to relic sites with very low volume (0,01m3). They are giving flavor to the sites.
They certainly add flavor to the insides of my jet cans... Mixed with a pinch of Carbon.
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Ayx Shewma
0scope Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 00:58:17 -
[174] - Quote
Pandora Bokks wrote: Actually, it is comparably safe to run them. Dropping a mobile depot and having stabs in your cargohold is mandatory. If local spikes, refit and get away. Any soloer or small gang that tries to catch you will be taken care of by the rats due to aggression switch mechanics. I like them as they are, although I still feel the loot table has changed recently (yes, feel - in reality I was ofc just very unlucky the last weeks). And please do not change them to signatures, I do not want to carry my prober with me all the time.
since you clearly haul a mobile depot around, why can't you also just refit your probe launcher?
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
417
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 08:47:09 -
[175] - Quote
Ayx Shewma wrote:They certainly add flavor to the insides of my jet cans... Mixed with a pinch of Carbon. What a fancy avatar you have there. Did you spend a lot of time creating it? For what? There is no benefit to the game by having it. Just some flavor.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
704
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 17:55:30 -
[176] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:I've listened and I'll cancel the change to require a Data Analyzer for Besieged sites. So no changes will be made to that site.
Hallelujah I was about to launch into a proper rant over that. Thank you for listening. Those sites are already quite uniquely challenging.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
704
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 18:23:14 -
[177] - Quote
Pandora Bokks wrote:Ransu Asanari wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Making Ghost sites Sigs and not Anoms is something i'll look into tomorrow and I'll let you know the outcome. I really think this would be a good change. Since the Besieged Covert Research Facilities are only spawned in Lowsec, you put yourself at an amount of danger that doesn't justify the risk. I personally have passed many of them up when roaming around through Lowsec, in favor of looking for DED Complexes and Expeditions. It's the amount of time/difficulty as running a DED site, but with more chance of being warp scrambled by rats, and being warpable to if anyone comes into system. Because of the high DPS you also need very specific fits, so it's very difficult to defend yourself if someone does try to grab you. If they were Cosmic Signatures, you could at least have the warning of Core/Combat Probes on you to give you a chance to get out. With DED sites you have even more safety because the further into the site you are, the more acceleration gates have to be traversed to get to you. You can set your DSCAN to 100,000km and know when someone is actually trying to get to you. Since the Besieged Covert Facility Sites don't have acceleration gates, making them Cosmic Signatures would only provide a little more safety, as you can still be combat scanned directly onto. Actually, it is comparably safe to run them. Dropping a mobile depot and having stabs in your cargohold is mandatory. If local spikes, refit and get away. Any soloer or small gang that tries to catch you will be taken care of by the rats due to aggression switch mechanics. I like them as they are, although I still feel the loot table has changed recently (yes, feel - in reality I was ofc just very unlucky the last weeks). And please do not change them to signatures, I do not want to carry my prober with me all the time.
They take FAR less time than a DED site but they can be warped to, the rats tackle at significant range, and hit/tank very hard so that there's a high threshold of DPS and local tanking capability needed to clear them, in addition to needing an omni-tank.
Once you have a proper ship set up to run them they can be done fairly quickly and consistently as long as local isn't too hot. Though a 5 battleship second wave is always a bit hairy for my Ishtar. The rewards average 10-30 M with an occasional jackpot of in demand T2 pirate ammo or implants, but overall these sites are fine as they are. Another nice addition to lowsec distinct from DED sites which can pay out more but take alot longer to run and require you to grind through tons of mediocre strength NPC's rather than a few tough ones.
The besieged sites and mordus belt rats were a really great addition to lowsec and a great complement to clone soldiers and other lowsec income sources; they're fine as they are.
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Vargo Shahni
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 22:13:08 -
[178] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: * All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
Wondering if you could please answer a few questions
1)Are you planning on making the ghost sites easy or difficult to scan down? 2) I know of 6 wormhole ghost sites being found, all in either a class 4 or class 5 wormholes. Do ghost sites spawn in class 1 through 3 wormholes?
Thanks |
HotCakes
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 11:36:28 -
[179] - Quote
I agree with Ransu Asanari,
CCP RedDawn wrote:Doyle Aldurad wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:
* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites)
Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Please do NOT butcher Relic sites to make data sites better. Find them something new and unique. Making Relic sites suck more because you hope to make data sites suck less is not a solution. Relic sites still have all their unique loot, all I've done is removed their less valuable drops which also already currently drop in Data sites. No need to worry.
So basicly DATA are still not worth doing and this whole execise was an effort in futility.
:( |
HotCakes
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 12:20:32 -
[180] - Quote
Not sure if this is the right place for this:
I just got this message from "Imadeu Ragequit".
I know filtering out names like this before hand is difficult. But given the intend i would suggest banning his account and related accounts.
Eve is losing to many players currently to keep people like this mr. "Imadeu Ragequit" around.
I hope to play this game for the rest of my life and i feel some players are out to destroy it. This guy is clearly one them. Hell he might even be working for the competition.
===> hotcakes?!? From: Imadeu Ragequit To: HotCakes INBOXRemove Label do we get free hotcakes if we join? |
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Ayx Shewma
0scope Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 18:50:10 -
[181] - Quote
HotCakes wrote:I agree with Ransu Asanari, CCP RedDawn wrote:Doyle Aldurad wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:
* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books) * Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites)
Fly safe, CCP RedDawn
Please do NOT butcher Relic sites to make data sites better. Find them something new and unique. Making Relic sites suck more because you hope to make data sites suck less is not a solution. Relic sites still have all their unique loot, all I've done is removed their less valuable drops which also already currently drop in Data sites. No need to worry. So basicly DATA are still not worth doing and this whole execise was an effort in futility. :( Dont mean to be nag. But DATA need something significant to get people to do them. Perhaps look into droping blueprints for high value meta4 items. And on top of that reduce the drop rate of all lower meta items to below there destruction rate. The market has been flooded with massive quantities for years and people sell them for scrap. Eventhough they are better then the t1 equevalent. Newbe's dont even wanna salvage nowadays because the salvage is worth (s)crap. Hope it gives you some new idea's.
Data sites are worth running simply for the fact that getting rid of them causes another relic/data to spawn somewhere else in the region.
Not running sites, or running them partially, does nothing to help you or any other explorer. Even if you just go in and spend 3-4 minutes blowing up all the cans, you're doing everyone a service. Personally, I cargo scan them, loot the good ones, blow up the rest, as most experienced explorers do.
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Leitharos Rosselem
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.10.19 10:16:36 -
[182] - Quote
Doyle Aldurad wrote:
Please do NOT butcher Relic sites to make data sites better. Find them something new and unique. Making Relic sites suck more because you hope to make data sites suck less is not a solution.
This.
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
426
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 10:24:50 -
[183] - Quote
Leitharos Rosselem wrote:Doyle Aldurad wrote:Please do NOT butcher Relic sites to make data sites better. Find them something new and unique. Making Relic sites suck more because you hope to make data sites suck less is not a solution. This. Do you guys know what are you talking about anyway? Relics value are most salvage materials. Books and BPC are insignificant rare.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
171
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 00:00:06 -
[184] - Quote
@CCP RedDawn
First of all, thank you for your effort.
On topic: Thinking about increasing the value of data sites, the first thing, that came to mind, was making data sites the only source for datacores. Of course, I don't have the numbers on how many datacores come from FW LP stores compared to data sites and research agents, so i don't know, if this would even be a viable solution, but maybe it's worth to think about it and do some research in that direction.
Regards, Damjan |
Capsups
Requiem Knowledge Stella Nova
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 10:48:26 -
[185] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far, some good points raised overall. To answer some reoccurring questions: * High Tech items are on my list to make useful EDIT: Added some stuff That's it for now, I'll be watching. CCP RedDawn
How about using them as a material requirement to build citadels and the new structures? High-Tech Data Chip sounds like something you could use in a citadel, High-Tech Scanner is an obvious candidate for including in the new observatories, High-Tech Manufacturing Tools could easily fit in with the new industry structures while the High-Tech Small Arms could perhaps be used for the new modules that can be fit onto citadels.
This could potentially increase the value of data sites immensely and suddenly there's a major demand for people doing exploration sites because there's always a demand for the new structures, just like there are for POS right now. |
Crystalline Entity
Outdated Host Productions Mortum Ravagers
27
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 12:35:55 -
[186] - Quote
Love you caps x |
Ace Aideron
Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 03:02:26 -
[187] - Quote
Any chance you would consider making Relic Sites available in the drone regions?
We don't get any drops from most rats, so any offsets we can get in other areas would be most welcome.
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Kayden Katelo
Mythic Heights
13
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Posted - 2015.10.22 23:32:43 -
[188] - Quote
So, um, Red Dawn, I just saw your video about exploration. Did you know you have a Scottish accent? In fact at one point my wife thought Jackie Stewart was playing EVE now. |
Anthar Thebess
1357
|
Posted - 2015.10.23 14:14:55 -
[189] - Quote
Put to guristas LP store Gecko BPC , that use tons of data site materials to produce. Like tons of this stuff - let say 50mil at current values.
Wait and look how people start to kill each other to do data sites.
Problem is not in datasites , but that stuff you can make using it limited , or have very limited use.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Soltys
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.24 16:12:04 -
[190] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Kayden Katelo wrote:[quote=Kayden Katelo ]Now, lets think about the veterans. Lets consider those that have been playing for more than five plus years. Time to make some elements of exploration hard again please. They did. Sleepers sites are for more experienced players.
Not everything "hard" implies shooting / bringing friends|alts / passive tanking first wave (leaving single trigger alive).
In context of solo exploring the whole scanning and minigame are both rather ... undemanding now. And that's putting it in very, very kind words.
- something that requires custom probe formations and notably higher skills/better equipment (Vs, T2 modules, implants) would be highly welcome. An idea here: scanning that involves 2 or more different points in space that contribute to each other's results (cons: might need some math/mechanics adjustments) - essentially forcing player to use clever probe formation that has to cover each point with 4 probes geometrically, and with such a configuration that gives enough signal strength overall. This alone could present excellent puzzle in itself and give a reason to invent heavier isk into implants/equipment.
- hacking minigame could use some heavy difficulty upgrade as well, as currently it's certanly mini and barely feels like a game
- some escalation-like ideas - where stuff painfully hard to scan and difficult hack (by complexity, not rng) leads to some other place(s) and so one - perhaps starting with some agent (whose level would designate difficulty) hinting about some WH/null system as a starting place
This is kind exploration I'd want to participate in (implementation details aside) - going deeper and further, perhaps sharing some lore tidbits, with jackpot awaiting at the end (or a gank/gatecamp/whatever else death if careless).
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
467
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 09:11:41 -
[191] - Quote
Soltys wrote: something that requires custom probe formations and notably higher skills/better equipment (Vs, T2 modules, implants) would be highly welcome. An idea here: scanning that involves 2 or more different points in space that contribute to each other's results (cons: might need some math/mechanics adjustments) - essentially forcing player to use clever probe formation that has to cover each point with 4 probes geometrically, and with such a configuration that gives enough signal strength overall. This alone could present excellent puzzle in itself and give a reason to invent heavier isk into implants/equipment. hacking minigame could use some heavy difficulty upgrade as well, as currently it's certanly mini and barely feels like a game some escalation-like ideas - where stuff painfully hard to scan and difficult hack (by complexity, not rng) leads to some other place(s) and so one - perhaps starting with some agent (whose level would designate difficulty) hinting about some WH/null system as a starting place ...or remove signatures from scanner. They are showing you were to look. CCP don't want to do that, they are happy with current state of exploration.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
461
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 21:30:22 -
[192] - Quote
So the Citadel Build Devblog is out - my thoughts here.
- No mention of any of the Data Site components being used in their build process to increase their value - not for "High-Tech" items or the Faction Materials.
- No mention of how the Faction POS Tower and Modules in Data Sites will be replaced other than "If and when we release Tech II or faction modules the material build-up will be properly modified to match" which suggests they won't be there on launch, and Faction POS Tower/Module BPCs will become less and less valuable as they move towards becoming obsolete.
- In fact the increased demand for Salvage for Citadel Rigs will be INCREASING the value of Relic Sites and local salvaging, while Data Sites still don't really have anything unique to offer to boost their value from the current level.
- T2 Citadel Rig BPCs can be invented, or "found" - so I'm assuming they will be rare drops in Data or Relic Sites? This isn't a huge value since even right now the Capital rigs aren't worth that much, and they are usually 0ME so they're worse than the ones you can invent anyway, and usually are built at a loss except for very specific popular ones.
CCP RedDawn, you stated there is a plan to replace POS based drops - is this going to happen on Launch, or sometime afterwards, once POS starts to be phased out? It feels like we're still not going to have any value from Data Sites into the Citadel manufacturing chain, and that's a huge missed opportunity. |
Ransu Asanari
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
461
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 21:40:24 -
[193] - Quote
Pandora Bokks wrote:Actually, it is comparably safe to run them. Dropping a mobile depot and having stabs in your cargohold is mandatory. If local spikes, refit and get away. Any soloer or small gang that tries to catch you will be taken care of by the rats due to aggression switch mechanics. I like them as they are, although I still feel the loot table has changed recently (yes, feel - in reality I was ofc just very unlucky the last weeks). And please do not change them to signatures, I do not want to carry my prober with me all the time.
With the announced changes from EVE Vegas, you won't be able to refit anything when you have a weapons timer. That's going to make a lot of the refitting options we use right now with a Mobile Depot impossible if you start to get into a PVP fight.
I still think the Besieged sites would fit better as combat signatures that you have to scan down. There are already a lot of Unrated and 4-5/10 DED Combat Sites in Lowsec, and these would fit right into the same line of sites to run with a ship that can scan down the signatures, then refit (in a station or with a depot) to full combat to run them.
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Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
16
|
Posted - 2015.11.02 21:31:59 -
[194] - Quote
Ghost sites: Random invisible timer is not fun. Could you add some sort of countdown clock so the solo explorer has a chance to react? At the moment, assuming moderate competence at hacking, for a frigate all risk management decisions boil down to:
1st can = definitely safe 2nd can = depends on invisible timer 3rd can = definitely dead frigate
A pop-up 10 or 15 second timer (like the log-off timer) gives the pilot a chance to get away, but only if he's quick, paying attention and not stuck on the structure = more skill involved, more options, less tears.
*And yes, I am ranting because I did lose my first Astero to this. |
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
173
|
Posted - 2015.11.02 22:18:39 -
[195] - Quote
Sapheni wrote:Random invisible timer is not fun. Could you add some sort of countdown clock so the solo explorer has a chance to react?
But you have a "visible timer". As soon as you see the NPCs on overview, you have more than enough time to warp out, before they lock and point you. And an Astero fitted right, can tank the can explosion without any problems, even in nullsec.
With the right fit, you warp in, scan the containers for the best ones and start with those, hack as many containers as you can and as soon as you see the the NPCs on overview, GTFO. Even if you are in the middle of a hack. Tank the explosion and warp away.
Here is a possible fit:
[Astero, Ghost Sites (Null-Sec)] Reactor Control Unit II Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II Damage Control II
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Relic Analyzer II Cargo Scanner II Medium Shield Extender II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
|
Sansh Leko
The Scope Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 11:21:48 -
[196] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:
All the Takmahl, Talocan, Yan Jung and Sleeper Cosmos items, plus the extra pirate faction items found in Cosmos sites. In the future I'd rather improve Data Sites by adding more unique items and also change the currently dropped useless loot into building materials instead. The surplus items you speak of from Data Sites have had its loot amount drop halved.
I am glad to hear that, the amount of Storyline copies some of us have from Sleeper caches since they were released is insane.
Maths for some of the most valuable are only to be found from COSMOS missions, skills I trained for all 4 ancient races to V will now not be useless.
Keep up the great work
EVE Forever
|
Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
17
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 21:32:33 -
[197] - Quote
Damjan Fox wrote:Sapheni wrote:Random invisible timer is not fun. Could you add some sort of countdown clock so the solo explorer has a chance to react? But you have a "visible timer". As soon as you see the NPCs on overview, you have more than enough time to warp out, before they lock and point you. And an Astero fitted right, can tank the can explosion without any problems, even in nullsec. With the right fit, you warp in, scan the containers for the best ones and start with those, hack as many containers as you can and as soon as you see the the NPCs on overview, GTFO. Even if you are in the middle of a hack. Tank the explosion and warp away.
Hmm, maybe I ought to file a ticket in that case.
I reached the third can, opened the mini game, clicked on two open links and then it exploded. I assumed it was some timer-related thing that I hadn't encountered before. But if the NPCs are always a precursor then it must have been something else (they didn't arrive for at least 30 seconds, maybe longer).
|
Ari Shekelstein
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 01:03:04 -
[198] - Quote
did these changes get implemented yet? |
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
173
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 11:46:58 -
[199] - Quote
Sapheni wrote:I reached the third can, opened the mini game, clicked on two open links and then it exploded. I assumed it was some timer-related thing that I hadn't encountered before. But if the NPCs are always a precursor then it must have been something else (they didn't arrive for at least 30 seconds, maybe longer). The NPCs will ALWAYS show up before any of the cans explode (unless you fail the hack of course).I'm pretty sure then, you don't have these ghost site NPCs set to be shown on your overview. They showed up and starting shooting the can and you didn't notice. I can't remember offhand, how they are called exactly, but just go through your overview settings to add them to overview. |
Fermin Mascagranzas
Uranus Intruders Test Alliance Please Ignore
19
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 06:55:12 -
[200] - Quote
Sapheni wrote:
I reached the third can, opened the mini game, clicked on two open links and then it exploded. I assumed it was some timer-related thing that I hadn't encountered before. But if the NPCs are always a precursor then it must have been something else (they didn't arrive for at least 30 seconds, maybe longer).
It happened to me once also, if you are sure that the rats didn-¦t appeared by the time you blowned up there are two good candidates:
- You forgot to deactivate the MWD ( or did it too late ) and you fell out of hacking range ( 6km for T2 modules, 5 km for T1 ). This automatically fails the hack, and in a ghost site blowns you up
- You arrived to the third can in such a low capacitor that the first cycle of the analyzer finished it up, couldn-¦t make a second cycle, thus failing the hack and instapopping you.
|
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Sam Spock
The Arnold Connection
64
|
Posted - 2015.11.09 19:11:40 -
[201] - Quote
Not directly related but do you think we could see a shrinkage in the size of Overseer Personal Effects? 10m3 fills up cargo holds fast on a frigate.
Giving you Inconsistent grammar, speilling and Punct-uation since 1974!
|
Capsuleer Service Executive
Estel Arador Corp Services
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.10 15:23:40 -
[202] - Quote
RedDawn:
Lots of good stuff to think about here. I'll throw in something. With regards to the faction material drops (positron cord, et al), why not just remove those entirely. The data interfaces are gone. We are suffering from item/material/market window "stuff" creep. Throw up a 365-day NPC buy order for 50/100/250 ISK and at the end of the 365-day window any unsold are permanetly removed, along with the buy order. Less junk, less market tabs, less code. Win.
I am in favor of finding something for high-tech, Citadels seem to be a good place to start.
With regards to archaeology/relics, may I suggest borrowing from my other favorite game, Ingress. In Ingress, when you long press the "hack" button you are presented with a glyph pattern to memorize. You then get 15 seconds to draw the glyph to obtain a bonus.
Applied to archaeology, maybe even using the same mini-game screen, a pattern of hieroglyphics appear when the node is hacked and you then get point-and-click your mouse to re-trace the glyph. Getting a perfect match gets a better drop table. Each faction could have a hieroglphyic "language" for their relic sites.
Brainstorming here. Hope this helps.
/cse
EACSGäó - Estel Arador Capsuleer & Corp Services - Spreading the Love
|
xXQxanXx ShadowMaker
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 11:24:00 -
[203] - Quote
Hi happy to see new features :)
Unfortunately will be nice if someone fix a Sleeper sites !! No mechanic are working for me ! There was no problems but now simply i cant do any of sleeper. I send few Bug reports but no interest for about 5 days. Basically no one care :(
Meaning mechanic i mean :
Superior - Sentry pocket - unable to get my sentry when hacking to defense grid unit the sentry doesn't turn blue, nothing happen when hack to repair station - Solar Pocket - Hacking to observatory taking gamma chip to gamma can but dmg is no reduced - No info on local Standard - When hacking to one of Can you should get 60 sec alarm and other can to popup but nothing happen - No info on local chat. Limited - Hacking to reduce pressure - nothing happening - no info on local chat about changes.
Do any of you have any problems with this sites ?
And how long I have to w8 until CCP respond :( Since last week I lose tons of isk where I was unable to do any of sleeper sites. |
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
173
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 13:02:11 -
[204] - Quote
xXQxanXx ShadowMaker wrote:Do any of you have any problems with this sites ? Looking at these threads: Parallax : Superior cache bugged Parallax: Standard Sleeper Cache is bugged after Patch ... i would say yes. |
Axion Tetraquark
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.15 23:04:17 -
[205] - Quote
Anyone hear when these data site changes will be put in the game? |
MirraQ1
Minmatar Death Squad
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.20 13:44:07 -
[206] - Quote
[/quote]Hmm, maybe I ought to file a ticket in that case.
I reached the third can, opened the mini game, clicked on two open links and then it exploded. I assumed it was some timer-related thing that I hadn't encountered before. But if the NPCs are always a precursor then it must have been something else (they didn't arrive for at least 30 seconds, maybe longer).
In any case some clarity from the Devs on some of the mechanics would be good (not just ghost sites -the whole lot). Player-built sites and Evelopedia sometimes help, but it would be nice to be able to judge the level of risk with a level of assurance that the information is reliable. If I'm confident I have time, that I can hack the can, and that I can escape the NPCs then I'll take the risk. If I'm not I'll just avoid it - it's not worth losing an expensive ship just to test what the EVE god of random-ness is going to do today. I actually sat there in disbelief for those 30s because I haven't lost a ship to instapopping for over ten years.[/quote]
Sounds like u were lucky to get to the 3rd can,i was barely halfway thruogh the first,long before the ships jumped in hacking away when....kill mail.....no hack fail,no ships no explosion no nothing...i dont understand why it's set up this way..i can't afford to lose ships in this dumb way |
Damaris Velazquez
Melusine Temple
2
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 21:21:00 -
[207] - Quote
Just found this thread. My three cents.
PRESENT
I don't like rebalancing the sites neither according to rule: we'll make data better by making relic worse (or vice versa) nor: just put some stuff everywhere and even don't think its value will decrease dramatically in the blink of eye. Tbh IGÇÖm astonished CCP canGÇÖt adjust data/relic loot tables. There are thousands of items in the game! I don't care if there's snake-shaped structure or barren asteroid, they are all the same. You need to differentiate them, not only data from relic, but within the classes as well.
Sleeper caches are pretty nice, but to my mind itGÇÖs just one path. The other is to develop existing relic/data sites.
I strongly support putting some unexpected items into cans (apparel, random collectible stuff, even faction mods bpc). 1 bpc gecko in data sites is an excellent idea GÇô on the one hand you can keep beloved geckos in the game, on the other itGÇÖs great opportunity to make some crap useful (for example high-tech garbage to produce geckos). Ofc they should be rare GÇô we need dripping inlux of geckos, not waterfall.
Citadels are about to introduce. Then what are you waiting for?? Put some stuff into relic sites, some in data ones.
Ghost sites. I support putting superior ghost sites into C1-C3 wormholes as well as using cargo scanners there. Btw GÇô anyone can tell me where are ghost rats in overview? Still have been looking for them there.
FUTURE
You were going to encourage ppl to explore. As we know mission is accomplished, hordes runnning data and relic sites. ItGÇÖs ok, but data and relic sites as they are at the moment should be just for newbies or medium experienced players. Sleeper caches are very nice, but there's need for more. I would love hacker/archeologist as dedicated professions - requiring long time training and risky, but profitable and bringing tones of thrills. Hence implement other types of sites, other types of games, higher tier cans.
We are not interested neither in simple, boring schemes nor blind lotteries. Players need have a reasonable chance to get the reward, but you should put something unpredictable as well. Randomize sites. Randomize loot. Introduce multilevel games. Introduce hacking into deployables or abandoned structures. Ffs, use your imagination and creativity.
Some quick ideas.
Probabilistic logic - Rank 6 (Hacking V required) Artifact analysis - Rank 6 (Archeology V req.) Stuff: Advanced codebreaker / Advanced analyzer (Probabilistic logic II / Artifact analysis II req.)
Meta-analysis GÇô Rank 6 ((Hacking V req., Archeology V req.) Stuff: Password breaker (Meta-analysis II req.)
Advanced Hacking - Rank 8 (Hacking V req.) Mathematics - Rank 4 (Hacking V req.) Advanced Mathematics - Rank 8 (Mathematics V req.) Virus Creating - Rank 10 (Advanced Hacking V req., Advanced Mathematics V req.) Password Breaking - Rank 12 (Virus Creating V req.)
Advanced Archeology - Rank 8 (Archeology V req.) Epigraphy - Rank 4 (Archeology V req) Advanced Epigraphy - Rank 8 (Epigraphy V req.) Ancient Languages Translating - Rank 10 (Advanced Archeology V req., Advanced Epigraphy V req.) Glyph Decoding - Rank 12 ( Ancient Languages Translating V req.)
5th tier cans (advanced codebreaker/analyzer req.) Level 1 - AM V / AE V req. (Game type 1 GÇô more difficult variation of current game) Level 2 - VC IV / ALT IV req. (Game type 2 GÇô kind of puzzling game?)
6th tier cans (advanced codebreaker/analyzer req. + password breaker (low slot module)) Level 1 - VC III/ALT III req. (Game type 1) Level 2 - ALT V/ VC V req. (Game type 2) Level 3 - GD III/PB III req. (Game type 3 GÇô other type of logical game)
Do not take shortcuts! Make skillbooks expensive and prerequisites high. Consider bonuses, make even rank 12 skills worth to train to V. Consider attributes and games parameters.
Be ambitious, set the bar high. Yes, we will gnash our teeth if failing, but we can stand it if there are nice rewards. I prefer (even when skills maxed) low chance of winning game than easy one where at the end I find an empty can. Still want encourage ppl? Make those new types of data/relic sites rare and difficult to scan (signal strength of superior sleeper caches), but spread all over the spaces GÇô null, low, high, wh.
All of that are raw ideas, but I got them within a few minutes. Ffs, there are hundreds of possibilities! Give us an interesting game!! |
Soltys
34
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 02:07:03 -
[208] - Quote
Damaris Velazquez wrote:
snip
While I'm all for adding variety (e.g. different, longer, hard kind of mini-games), sensible randomness, longer and more difficult involvement (requring more brain and dedication) - a lot of what you outlined just adds even more in-game "skills" (with crazy high ranks) so people are forced to subscribe for many, many months before they can do anything interesting with 0 relevance to actual game and its gameplay/difficulty while their self-botting XP (erm. SP) bar does its "magic". Alternatively they will be pointed towards character baazar or SP packs (whenever those get introduced).
Intermix this stuff with some new exploration type missions that - for example - point you towards some areas where you can find coordiantes, that you can use with help of agent/item/market stuff/etc. to look further and further. Basically instead of keeping everything secluded to very rare caches - involve agents and spread this stuff all over Eden, where you slowly come closer to your "jackpot" destination - providing the player does the stuff correctly / in right order / solving puzzles along the way.
As mentioned earlier, something that would spice up relatively brainless probing would be welcome as well.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
740
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 11:11:15 -
[209] - Quote
Just a little heads up that the changes listed on my first post will be coming out with Operation Frostline on December the 8th.
Team Space Glitter
|
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
495
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 13:11:19 -
[210] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Just a little heads up that the changes listed on my first post will be coming out with Operation Frostline on December the 8th. Cool. Any chances to decrese the volume of Shattered Villard Wheels, they are 1m3 currently. Cargohold get stuffed by them quickly.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
|
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Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
182
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 13:29:32 -
[211] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Introduced the higher tiered (higher value) Cosmos site building materials to all class wormhole Data sites. (C1 to C6)
Is this a typo and you meant "C1 to C3" or are you adding these "higher tiered (higher value) Cosmos site building materials" to sleeper data sites aswell? |
Yadaryon Vondawn
Alius Itineris Virtus
72
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 14:10:21 -
[212] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Just a little heads up that the changes listed on my first post will be coming out with Operation Frostline on December the 8th.
Will these changes be on Singularity beforehand?
Is it also possible to get a list of all the items added to the droptable? |
|
CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
742
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 15:11:57 -
[213] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Just a little heads up that the changes listed on my first post will be coming out with Operation Frostline on December the 8th. Cool. Any chances to decrese the volume of Shattered Villard Wheels, they are 1m3 currently. Cargohold get stuffed by them quickly.
Yeah I'll get that lowered as well for the December release.
Team Space Glitter
|
|
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
742
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 15:13:01 -
[214] - Quote
Damjan Fox wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Introduced the higher tiered (higher value) Cosmos site building materials to all class wormhole Data sites. (C1 to C6) Is this a typo and you meant "C1 to C3" or are you adding these "higher tiered (higher value) Cosmos site building materials" to sleeper data sites aswell?
Not a typo. Cosmos loot will also be included in the C4 to C6 Sleeper data sites.
Team Space Glitter
|
|
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
742
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 15:19:50 -
[215] - Quote
Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Just a little heads up that the changes listed on my first post will be coming out with Operation Frostline on December the 8th. Will these changes be on Singularity beforehand? Is it also possible to get a list of all the items added to the droptable?
Yes these changes are on Singularity now.
Team Space Glitter
|
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MuraSaki Siki
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
65
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 15:20:19 -
[216] - Quote
hope that there will be a dev blog coming out for the details |
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
182
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 16:06:29 -
[217] - Quote
@CCP RedDawn
thanks for your reply and your effort, of course. I'm eager to see, how those changes will affect the value of data sites. Although, i think this still won't put them on par with relics. But it's definately a step in the right direction.
Keep up the good work. |
Yadaryon Vondawn
Alius Itineris Virtus
72
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 20:14:02 -
[218] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Just a little heads up that the changes listed on my first post will be coming out with Operation Frostline on December the 8th. Cool. Any chances to decrese the volume of Shattered Villard Wheels, they are 1m3 currently. Cargohold get stuffed by them quickly. Yeah I'll get that lowered as well for the December release.
While you are at it; Could you also please lower the volume of Ancient/Faction Materials and Compounds from 1m3 to 0.1m3?
A "Talocan Reflective Sheets" or "Takmahl Centrifugal Primer" is currently 1m3 while a "Positron Cord" is 0.1m3. It is the exact same item after all, just a different name. I was hunting data sites on SiSi and noticed that the volume sizes of these data items dont match up currently.
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Loreen Parker
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.28 11:11:41 -
[219] - Quote
* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
So they need to be scanned down? Why?! It takes ages to find one in null. Why make them even harder to find?
Or is this just for the besieged sites sites in low sec?
|
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1728
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 15:28:09 -
[220] - Quote
Will there be devblog about the changes, I lost track a bit ...
To the experts who have followed, what is the effective change for relic and data sites value-wise?
From my relic expedition yesterday I recognize that data sites are still ignored by explorers and polluting systems ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
496
|
Posted - 2015.12.01 08:25:55 -
[221] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:To the experts who have followed, what is the effective change for relic and data sites value-wise?
From my relic expedition yesterday I recognize that data sites are still ignored by explorers and polluting systems ... It depends from where CCP want cosmos items. Most of them have fitting options as the only advantage (compare 1600mm T2 with cosmos). Most ships with decent skills don't have so tight CPU and PG. I presume there are thousands of BPCs from caches waiting to be used. From my perspective cosmos items are useless, if I need to choose I would use deadspace over them (both fitting and performance). Market will decide. Oversaturation at start, 3-5 months to stabilize, tears in the middle. Generally I'm positive, I'm doing them anyway.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
|
Damaris Velazquez
Melusine Temple
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.01 08:47:59 -
[222] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:[quote=Yadaryon Vondawn][quote=CCP RedDawn] [...]
CCP RedDawn, could you be so kind and put ghost sites NPCs in overview settings, because they are neither in entity nor in NPC types. It's terrible because due to mini game board it's impossible to see when they appear. |
Fermin Mascagranzas
Uranus Intruders Test Alliance Please Ignore
21
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 09:25:13 -
[223] - Quote
Loreen Parker wrote:* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
So they need to be scanned down? Why?! It takes ages to find one in null. Why make them even harder to find?
Or is this just for the besieged sites sites in low sec?
I tend to think that it actually will increase the chances of finding a ghost site. Now a lot of them are popped up by curious, clueless or just tarded people that warps in the site "for the lulz". Now only dedicated explorers will be able to see them. |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
627
|
Posted - 2015.12.05 05:24:56 -
[224] - Quote
Fermin Mascagranzas wrote:Loreen Parker wrote:* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
So they need to be scanned down? Why?! It takes ages to find one in null. Why make them even harder to find?
Or is this just for the besieged sites sites in low sec?
I tend to think that it actually will increase the chances of finding a ghost site. Now a lot of them are popped up by curious, clueless or just tarded people that warps in the site "for the lulz". Now only dedicated explorers will be able to see them.
Indeed. Plus some explorers were never looking for them to begin with!
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
|
Holly Downs
Rainy Day Industries
0
|
Posted - 2015.12.05 10:32:34 -
[225] - Quote
Are the covert site changes (requirement to use probes to locate them via cosmic sigs) on Tranquility now? I did over 100 Null jumps with no covert sites... Will we get an update when the changes go live? |
Loreen Parker
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.12.05 14:13:04 -
[226] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Fermin Mascagranzas wrote:Loreen Parker wrote:* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
So they need to be scanned down? Why?! It takes ages to find one in null. Why make them even harder to find?
Or is this just for the besieged sites sites in low sec?
I tend to think that it actually will increase the chances of finding a ghost site. Now a lot of them are popped up by curious, clueless or just tarded people that warps in the site "for the lulz". Now only dedicated explorers will be able to see them. Indeed. Plus some explorers were never looking for them to begin with!
Hey Chance, i like your videos!
i am mostly doing relic /data sites in null. i never did any ghost sites until a few weeks ago. now i hunt them in highly specialized ship. so "ages" means in my case ~ 30-60 minutes. After the patch this is no longer possible. If they spread out like right now i expect to find one every other day while just doing relic sites again
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Terminalia Wisperrant
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.05 15:17:22 -
[227] - Quote
The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.
Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit. |
Elnia Arthie
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
3
|
Posted - 2015.12.05 18:49:33 -
[228] - Quote
Holly Downs wrote:Are the covert site changes (requirement to use probes to locate them via cosmic sigs) on Tranquility now? I did over 100 Null jumps with no covert sites... Will we get an update when the changes go live? According to the patch notes this change will be deployed Dec. 8th. |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
628
|
Posted - 2015.12.06 03:32:08 -
[229] - Quote
Loreen Parker wrote:Chance Ravinne wrote:Fermin Mascagranzas wrote:Loreen Parker wrote:* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.
So they need to be scanned down? Why?! It takes ages to find one in null. Why make them even harder to find?
Or is this just for the besieged sites sites in low sec?
I tend to think that it actually will increase the chances of finding a ghost site. Now a lot of them are popped up by curious, clueless or just tarded people that warps in the site "for the lulz". Now only dedicated explorers will be able to see them. Indeed. Plus some explorers were never looking for them to begin with! Hey Chance, i like your videos! i am mostly doing relic /data sites in null. i never did any ghost sites until a few weeks ago. now i hunt them in highly specialized ship. so "ages" means in my case ~ 30-60 minutes . After the patch this is no longer possible. If they spread out like right now i expect to find one every other day while just doing relic sites again edit: oh and what im doing may well look like some noob just warped to the site for lols. but that noob may have just warped away 1/2 bil in loot ritcher.
Hey thanks! Specialized Ghost site hunting is definitely a niche, but due to the way they spawn/despawn it's hilariously easy for people who don't know what they are both to get killed and to waste them for players like you, who are prepared for the challenge. Being so easily warpable doesn't really make much sense either, what with the "covert" part of it all haha
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1786
|
Posted - 2015.12.06 08:25:24 -
[230] - Quote
Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.
Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit. This, so much. But I guess some code has to be written or changed for that ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3241
|
Posted - 2015.12.06 14:25:28 -
[231] - Quote
Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.
Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit. It is an indirect form of PVP, also if you have to hack all the containers it will only be a matter of time before there is more bitching about crap loot or nothing in a container which they had to spend time hacking. So they will either want fewer cans per site or better loot per can. Both of which will cause the value of the loot to drop even further. So no don't make all cans unscannable, keep them as is, if you want your loot to be worth anything.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1786
|
Posted - 2015.12.06 19:12:14 -
[232] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.
Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit. It is an indirect form of PVP, also if you have to hack all the containers it will only be a matter of time before there is more bitching about crap loot or nothing in a container which they had to spend time hacking. So they will either want fewer cans per site or better loot per can. Both of which will cause the value of the loot to drop even further. So no don't make all cans unscannable, keep them as is, if you want your loot to be worth anything. Actually making cans unscannable increases the value of the (good) loot. Because people who cherry pick now, will need more time and maybe get annoyed running the sites ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
198
|
Posted - 2015.12.06 20:35:04 -
[233] - Quote
We'll have to wait and see, if those changes to data sites really increase the value of them and persuade more explorers to actually run them. But i very much doubt that.
As i see it, it doesn't help, to add items with low drop rates and little higher value. The items, that commonly drop in data sites, should have a general higher value. The value of Data Cores and Decryptors is determined by supply and demand, so there is not much one can do here. Increasing the amount of them, would only lower the price, so that would be pointless.
But what about the "high-tech" stuff? CCP added them to the loot-table to increase the value of data sites, but never gave them a purpose, so they are actually worth nothing. Something obviously went wrong here. This would be the best opportunity to put data sites on par with relics. Give "high-tech" items a use in industry as required materials in blueprints. Just make sure, the demand for them is so high, that it will increase their value enough, to make explorers go out to run those data sites. (Or just remove them from the game already, as they are pointless now)
Regards, Damjan
Quote:Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit. +1 for this
Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
|
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
914
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 16:09:04 -
[234] - Quote
Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.
Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit.
No. When you are running relic/data sites in null, WH, and losec; you want to get in and out as fast as you can before someone comes in to ruin your day. If you have to hack every can, then the chances of you getting caught just went up significantly.
Site should despawn after a set amount of time once someone warps into it. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1786
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 20:52:28 -
[235] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.
Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit. No. When you are running relic/data sites in null, WH, and losec; you want to get in and out as fast as you can before someone comes in to ruin your day. If you have to hack every can, then the chances of you getting caught just went up significantly. Which is a welcome change, more dead explorers, more fun, better loot prices.
BTW, unfinished sites despawn, but it takes about an hour iirc.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
915
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 22:12:43 -
[236] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:The most pressing issue right now is cherrypicking. Even though in my exploration corp and in help channels there is a useful stigma against cherrypicking, there are still many people who do it. And many of them cherrypick not only due to some notion of increasing their own time efficiency, but mainly to stick it to the intelligent and correct explorers who tell them not to cherrypick.
Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit. No. When you are running relic/data sites in null, WH, and losec; you want to get in and out as fast as you can before someone comes in to ruin your day. If you have to hack every can, then the chances of you getting caught just went up significantly. Which is a welcome change, more dead explorers, more fun, better loot prices. BTW, unfinished sites despawn, but it takes about an hour iirc.
Nah, people already like to cloak up in those sites and wait for targets in null/WH/lowsec; you're just gimping them more by making them do have to hack every can.
Make the depawn time shorter. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
496
|
Posted - 2015.12.08 10:56:18 -
[237] - Quote
Terminalia Wisperrant wrote:Make all cans unscannable. Problem solved, all explorers everywhere benefit. It won't solve the problem, ppl will hack only ruins. Cans have names on them, we can tell which one may have best loot. I don't like cans scanning but problem is wider.
Tipa Riot wrote:BTW, unfinished sites despawn, but it takes about an hour iirc. Good. Assuming one site despawn after 1 hour, there will be ~23 sites per day (23 possible loot tables from it). Now imagine site despawn right after you leave it. Rotation will incease. How many more sites there will be to scan and hack? 4-6 time more? Now inject 4-6 more loot from them to the market. As Omnathious Deninard wrote
Quote:It is an indirect form of PVP I think primary thing should be to make data and relic analyzers different now.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1787
|
Posted - 2015.12.08 21:37:06 -
[238] - Quote
I see, both points are valid, having more sites completed and people just leaving remains and down untouched ... not that easy to guess what will be the effect on loot value.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Madeleine Lemmont
Divide et Impera DE Aeterna Anima
28
|
Posted - 2015.12.09 15:49:25 -
[239] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:... * High Tech items are on my list to make useful ... * I'm making a plan to look into the use of the most commonly dropped loot ... * The Reverse Engineering supply and demand is something I will add to my personal backlog... I've went around as an explorer a while.
Usually I take all items from boxes. Also the fully useless stuff (trade goods). But I cannot see, which items are plain trade goods and which ones could be used to build anything from. It would be great to see a BP-list, what items could be used for instead of only reprocessed minerals in industry tab.
I have to visit faction data sites in wh again. Maybe there's anything happen to rise their value not only though spawns of much more less valuable items. Those items block my trading slots only. Data sites in wh needed a much higher quality not quantity only.
Hardening containers in sites against cargo scanners would force explorers to open them all and triggers a site respawn elsewhere.There's no need for providing advantages to cherry pickers. Else those scanners should work accurate within a much closer range only. |
Madeleine Lemmont
Divide et Impera DE Aeterna Anima
28
|
Posted - 2015.12.09 16:36:53 -
[240] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:... Regarding the variance between hacking data sites vs relic sites, hacking game iterations is something i've been pushing for for a while. Right now they are too similar in my opinion and I would love to see some more separation. However that will have to be looked into at another time. In my opinion you may change the "look" first and the "feel" later. Different background pictures for analyzing for instance. Later: Hacking needs electronic traps, archeology needs physical/mechanical ones (tripwire, explosives with countdown to un-arm, when uncovered, trapdoors back to lower layer, etc.) The principles of the minigame, the game mechanics could stay the same. Moreover archeologists need hat and lash to wear via NES. Hacking needs virus-strength, archeology needs "intuition & sensitivity" Hacking is more like studies, archeology is more like surgery
Archeology should be not the same, technology driven item collection like hacking. You need to remove debris and waste step by step carefully. Else you will have damaged or destroyed artifacts. Maybe multi-level-analyzing of smaller fields with relic analyzer could be an answer. (Tier numer = layer number, but all layer with field complexity of debris, with special traps at higher tiers) Else hacking needs much more CPU than power and archeology more energy/power instead. Modules should run once while starting the minigame comparable to cloaking devices. Keep running until autostop after touching the content.
--- Tier-5/Tier-10-Stuff (hacking player anchored inactive structures with data analyzer) - multi-level-hacking - like a dungeon game - starting hacking will generate a suspect flag. - find a key to switch the layer and then find the gate for the key - same thing up to 5 times - successful hacking will provide access to the content within (i.e. an MTU) OR access to the anchoring menu (maybe a choice while hacking layers) - in order to take over ownership of structures you should need some more than hacking only - player might be able to harden their still hard to hack structures against hacking additionally (maybe using "hacking" minigame to harden it) - containers are easier as small structures - the new structures won't be hackable until they are abandoned
|
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Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
17
|
Posted - 2015.12.13 11:38:51 -
[241] - Quote
Has anyone noticed any changes to the relative value of data/relic sites since the patch?
My sense is that the value of relic sites has gone up, presumably because there's a greater likelihood of picking up something interesting from the loot table... and data sites don't seem to be any different apart from the low-value components not filling up my cargo hold quite as quickly.
In my (admittedly not very scientific) survey, started on Friday evening, I reckon I've collected 20 times as much (isk-wise) from relic sites as from data sites. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1879
|
Posted - 2015.12.15 21:50:15 -
[242] - Quote
Judging from the intact armor plate prices, drop rates are pretty much the same. The price increase is due to higher demand in anticipation of the citadels. If drop rates increase, price would decrease.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
989
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 08:08:03 -
[243] - Quote
Great, now every ******* who scans for data sites is going to be running ghost sites now too. Prices on MDs, MTUs, and ascendancy implants will turn to ****. Meanwhile they'll be even harder for me to find because I didn't have to scan for them before.
And I would have really appreciated if you had mentioned ghost sites in the title of this thread. I bet I'm not the only person who runs ghost sites but didn't give feedback on this change because they didn't realize you were changing them. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
497
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 08:26:40 -
[244] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Great, now every ******* who scans for data sites is going to be running ghost sites now too. Prices on MDs, MTUs, and ascendancy implants will turn to ****. Unlikley. You ranting because now you have to drop probes to find them instead just warp into them from anomaly? And your think they will drop in prices because of that? They may be actually increase in value because ppl like you will have to make an effort to get them.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
|
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
989
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 09:19:56 -
[245] - Quote
Well no, because a lot of people who were running data sites but not these before will now find these and run them.
That even seems to be the argument that Chance Ravine was making in support of moving them to signatures. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
497
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 09:43:12 -
[246] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Well no, because a lot of people who were running data sites but not these before will now find these and run them.
That even seems to be the argument that Chance Ravine was making in support of moving them to signatures. because it was so hard to browse them in between anomalies. It will be harder to find them now, not easier so I don't see your point (actually I see it, now you'll have to try harder). Something given on a plate (like anomally) vs something you actually have to find (scan signature). Stupid money without any effort. They should be signatures from day 1.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
|
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1942
|
Posted - 2015.12.23 10:47:32 -
[247] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Well no, because a lot of people who were running data sites but not these before will now find these and run them.
That even seems to be the argument that Chance Ravine was making in support of moving them to signatures. Rather I would expect more explorers die trying, but IIRC they are flagged as combat sites now, not data. All what CCP did, is increasing the access barrier ... which usually increase the value of the loot.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
989
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 03:59:46 -
[248] - Quote
No, they're data sites now. They were flagged as combat sites before. |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
490
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 04:39:43 -
[249] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Well no, because a lot of people who were running data sites but not these before will now find these and run them. My guess is that a lot of explorers won't be in the right ship to run them (or they'll learn after one mistake in a cov-op or Astero).
|
Cellini Benvenuto
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2015.12.27 13:29:50 -
[250] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Well no, because a lot of people who were running data sites but not these before will now find these and run them.
That even seems to be the argument that Chance Ravine was making in support of moving them to signatures. because it was so hard to browse them in between anomalies. It will be harder to find them now, not easier so I don't see your point (actually I see it, now you'll have to try harder). Something given on a plate (like anomally) vs something you actually have to find (scan signature). Stupid money without any effort. They should be signatures from day 1.
A collary to that: I got darned confused when I was scanning sites in my astero and ended up going into the site thinking I was in a data site... and the predictable ensued because the last thing I expected was being 2-shotted! My real 'duh' moment of the past month!!! lol |
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StonerPhReaK
Best Kept Frozen. Bad Intention
340
|
Posted - 2015.12.31 23:31:01 -
[251] - Quote
Everything should need to be scanned. Gates to the next system. Asteroid belts. Everything.
Signature Removal in Progress, Estimated time of completion? Neva
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4921
|
Posted - 2015.12.31 23:48:33 -
[252] - Quote
StonerPhReaK wrote:Everything should need to be scanned. Gates to the next system. Asteroid belts. Everything. Yeah, good luck with that...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Amber Solaire
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
48
|
Posted - 2016.01.02 22:53:02 -
[253] - Quote
I found a Standard Sleeper Cache data site in Hisec, but could not get a better scan result than 96,4%
This was with very high scanning skills, in a Cov Ops frigate
Any idea how to scan closer?
(It was very hard to even simply scan down) |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2001
|
Posted - 2016.01.03 08:13:05 -
[254] - Quote
Put a bunch of rangefinding arrays on your ship if not yet done so and try again, also use sisters probes ... the sleeper caches need very high scanning strength > 100
I'm my own NPC alt.
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MurinA 7o9
Slumbered For Millennia
6
|
Posted - 2016.01.10 17:51:49 -
[255] - Quote
thank u ccp for reckin me once again |
Eodp Ellecon
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
27
|
Posted - 2016.01.12 05:57:58 -
[256] - Quote
I rarely pay attention to the particular lvl-name of site, run relics and data equally.
But having 4 Sparking Transmitters in a row, kept loot log and they obviously need some love and loot worth seeing...
1 med micro jump drive bpc 1 talocan statis 1 talocan molecule Datacores, 22 Caldari Starship 5 Electomechanical 10 Hydromagnetic 31 Carbon 630 'Spare Parts' family 29 'High-tech' family 16 decryptors 1 Jury Rigging 1 Launcher Rigging
Rigging skillbooks in these should just be removed from all sites.
|
Fermin Mascagranzas
Uranus Intruders Test Alliance Please Ignore
24
|
Posted - 2016.01.13 06:48:18 -
[257] - Quote
Amber Solaire wrote:I found a Standard Sleeper Cache data site in Hisec, but could not get a better scan result than 96,4%
This was with very high scanning skills, in a Cov Ops frigate
Any idea how to scan closer?
(It was very hard to even simply scan down)
No, surely your scanning skills are not very high. Mine are just 4 ( some 3 and just the one required for the probe launcher II at 5 ) and I scan down the standards at 0.25 with no tweakings, and superiors just manually centering the probes.
Use sister probes + scan strenght rig + scan rangefinding array + Probe launcher II and with skills at 4 in a covops ( with covops skill at 4 ) you-¦ll scan everything in the game.
About the topic, I have only noticed a very small chance of getting a new kind of items ( the announced cosmos items maybe ) that sells for about 4mill.
In all still is more ISK effective to ignore them and employ the hacking time in just keep looking for relic sites. |
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
215
|
Posted - 2016.01.13 17:09:56 -
[258] - Quote
Fermin Mascagranzas wrote:still is more ISK effective to ignore them Yeah, but that's no surprise. Trying to increase the general value of data sites, by adding higher value items with low drop rates, was "not optimal" to begin with. The average site (if you don't get lucky and get a tower BPC) still sucks.
They need to increase the guaranteed value. Adding stuff to the loot table, that can already be obtained elsewhere, will crash the price of these items due to oversupply. So that doesn't work either. A new item, consumable preferably, with a purpose ingame, would be the best bet. They had the chance to do exactly that with the "high-tech" items. But CCP never gave them a purpose.
Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3310
|
Posted - 2016.01.13 17:22:10 -
[259] - Quote
One of the best ways to improve the value of data sites would be to make meta modules drop as broken items that need to be invented.
This one change would benefit, mining, data site, and t1 manufacturing values.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
|
Fermin Mascagranzas
Uranus Intruders Test Alliance Please Ignore
24
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 06:16:53 -
[260] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:One of the best ways to improve the value of data sites would be to make meta modules drop as broken items that need to be invented.
This one change would benefit, mining, data site, and t1 manufacturing values.
Not sure if that would work unless in great quantitiesGǪ I mean, getting an object that needs an industry run with some mats to get a module worthGǪ 1-3 mill isn-¦t a great deal either. Unless that industry job would require no mats, and the turnback were like 10 meta modules, but in that case that would also decrease its marketplace.
I keep thinking that the solution would be increasing the value of the already served items. Either increase the datacores needed for invention, or cut its other sources ( research agents ) or make optional decryptors not that optional ( either by increasing the benefit of using them or lowering the base results of the invention jobs without them )
|
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Inquisiteur Karamasov
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 18:00:46 -
[261] - Quote
I did exploration during a long time before odyssey and a bit after during the can spread fest (so happy its gone)
In my point of view is before odyssey exploration was a really rewarding activity, after odyssey a lot less. So what change ?
Easy, now exploration is easy to do easy to start and safe (as lomg you take care). Even the scanning part is a lot more easy and while i love it become a non-combat activity it need to have more risk.
Because at the end the only real thing chamge in the exploration is it become more easy so a lot (but really a lot ) more people do it so the value pf the loot go down and no matter how you change the loot inside the site the value will jist go down because too much people can do it easely |
Demica Diaz
SE-1
181
|
Posted - 2016.01.16 21:14:11 -
[262] - Quote
I really like this new -Research Components- thing we have going on at the moment. Of course its not over yet but I can see exploration could be expanded with that concept further beyond just event. |
Theminster
Brutor tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 18:59:50 -
[263] - Quote
Personally , I have hated that stupid mini game since it was introduced and its even more fustrating inside the sleeper caches when the hack is stupidly hard and you have 3 mins to hack all the cans.
They should never have made exploration easy mode , I spent months perfecting the art and skill training back when it was a real challange to scan sites down.
Thats what broke exploration, not the loot drops.
On a side note I do like the covert sites that pop up now and again there a nice challange |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2141
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 21:04:05 -
[264] - Quote
Inquisiteur Karamasov wrote:I did exploration during a long time before odyssey and a bit after during the can spread fest (so happy its gone)
In my point of view is before odyssey exploration was a really rewarding activity, after odyssey a lot less. So what change ?
Easy, now exploration is easy to do easy to start and safe (as lomg you take care). Even the scanning part is a lot more easy and while i love it become a non-combat activity it need to have more risk.
Because at the end the only real thing chamge in the exploration is it become more easy so a lot (but really a lot ) more people do it so the value pf the loot go down and no matter how you change the loot inside the site the value will jist go down because too much people can do it easely Except the loot value is going up steadily ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
579
|
Posted - 2016.02.02 16:22:09 -
[265] - Quote
In my runs over the past 2 weeks I've given up on data sites (not currently in Serpent space for the Research Component farm fest) and it seems everyone else has done the same. Data loot needs another iteration since they are constantly ignored. Have a run through Null and see for yourself.
Quality Assurance
Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
|
Yadaryon Vondawn
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
88
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:42:18 -
[266] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: * High Tech items are on my list to make useful CCP RedDawn
Hey CCP RedDawn!
It is has been a while and with me still running data sites I still encounter High Tech items that sadly still are unusable for anything How is your list doing :D? Will they become useful march 8th or during the Citadel expansion? |
Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 09:12:53 -
[267] - Quote
Theminster wrote:
'when the hack is stupidly hard and you have 3 mins to hack all the cans' 'They should never have made exploration easy mode'
|
Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 09:14:13 -
[268] - Quote
Did the spawn frequency of Covert Besieged Research Facilities has changed recently? |
Sama Dobrota
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
53
|
Posted - 2016.03.07 11:03:50 -
[269] - Quote
Dear CCP RedDawn,
Would you please officially confirm or deny the average number of exploration sites had decreased being compared to these numbers before BR & Serp events?
Also, is there any, even a little chance you ever implement escalations of exploration sites if a player had cleaned ALL of the cans in a short amount of time. It could be anomalies-like 1 to 25 probability decreasing if entire site cleanup takes longer time?
Thanks. |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
753
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 11:24:41 -
[270] - Quote
Hi there.
There has been no change to the distribution values / spawn frequencies of all the exploration sites. The recent event sites have been added in addition, thus have not decreased the overall amount of currently existing exploration sites.
Escalations from exploration sites are currently not on the cards for the foreseeable future I'm afraid.
Team Space Glitter
|
|
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Yadaryon Vondawn
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
89
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 11:51:18 -
[271] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Hi there.
There has been no change to the distribution values / spawn frequencies of all the exploration sites. The recent event sites have been added in addition, thus have not decreased the overall amount of currently existing exploration sites.
Escalations from exploration sites are currently not on the cards for the foreseeable future I'm afraid.
Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote: * High Tech items are on my list to make useful CCP RedDawn
Hey CCP RedDawn! It is has been a while and with me still running data sites I still encounter High Tech items that sadly still are unusable for anything How is your list doing :D? Will they become useful march 8th or during the Citadel expansion?
Any updates on this aswell :)? |
|
CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
753
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 12:58:48 -
[272] - Quote
Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Hi there.
There has been no change to the distribution values / spawn frequencies of all the exploration sites. The recent event sites have been added in addition, thus have not decreased the overall amount of currently existing exploration sites.
Escalations from exploration sites are currently not on the cards for the foreseeable future I'm afraid.
Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote: * High Tech items are on my list to make useful CCP RedDawn
Hey CCP RedDawn! It is has been a while and with me still running data sites I still encounter High Tech items that sadly still are unusable for anything How is your list doing :D? Will they become useful march 8th or during the Citadel expansion? Any updates on this aswell :)?
I'm afraid not as the team have been working on a myriad of other features that have a higher level of importance. Rest assured however that this has not been forgotten about in any way.
Team Space Glitter
|
|
Yadaryon Vondawn
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
89
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 13:06:12 -
[273] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote: I'm afraid not as the team have been working on a myriad of other features that have a higher level of importance. Rest assured however that this has not been forgotten about in any way.
Thanks for the answer, looking forward to it. |
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2732
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 20:31:08 -
[274] - Quote
All you explorers should check the price of Small Ancillary Armor Repairers, contemplate the fact that blueprints from, these now drop in data rather than relic sites, and go run them as well.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
|
Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2732
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 20:32:08 -
[275] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Hi there.
There has been no change to the distribution values / spawn frequencies of all the exploration sites. The recent event sites have been added in addition, thus have not decreased the overall amount of currently existing exploration sites.
Escalations from exploration sites are currently not on the cards for the foreseeable future I'm afraid.
Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote: * High Tech items are on my list to make useful CCP RedDawn
Hey CCP RedDawn! It is has been a while and with me still running data sites I still encounter High Tech items that sadly still are unusable for anything How is your list doing :D? Will they become useful march 8th or during the Citadel expansion? Any updates on this aswell :)? I'm afraid not as the team have been working on a myriad of other features that have a higher level of importance. Rest assured however that this has not been forgotten about in any way. Missed opportunity in citadels. This stuff could surely be included as production materials?
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
241
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Posted - 2016.03.09 22:02:27 -
[276] - Quote
Quote:Missed opportunity in citadels. This stuff could surely be included as production materials? Would be interesting to know, what CCP had planned for these items when they introduced them. They had a purpose for them in mind, i guess, but obviously something went wrong.
Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
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Sama Dobrota
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2016.03.09 23:37:51 -
[277] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:There has been no change to the distribution values / spawn frequencies of all the exploration sites. The recent event sites have been added in addition, thus have not decreased the overall amount of currently existing exploration sites.
Escalations from exploration sites are currently not on the cards for the foreseeable future I'm afraid.
Dear CCP RedDawn,
Thank you for responding. Would you, please, pretty please, consider implementing exploration escalations in some still unforeseeable distant future? (at least this approximatingly is how Abandoned Research Complex DC007 currently works) Obtaining expedition is like winning a lottery, that brings some positive mood due to a rare but a nice surprise. Who does not like this?
Thanks |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
504
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Posted - 2016.03.10 03:43:37 -
[278] - Quote
Has anyone noticed a change in difficulty of the mini-game? I have T2 modules + rigs and have been failing recently where I only rarely did before.
Also, is anyone else getting momentary pauses on the mini-game clicks? I'm even getting them while typing this post and not sure if it's related to the CCP system changes or related to my computer/connection.
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Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
250
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Posted - 2016.03.10 10:55:43 -
[279] - Quote
Quote:Has anyone noticed a change in difficulty of the mini-game? I have T2 modules + rigs and have been failing recently where I only rarely did before.
Also, is anyone else getting momentary pauses on the mini-game clicks? I'm even getting them while typing this post and not sure if it's related to the CCP system changes or related to my computer/connection. I haven't noticed a difficulty change, but the performance in the minigame is worse. It is lagging and you can't click as fast as before. This really sucks for hacks with timers (like ghost sites or sleeper caches) or if you operate in hostile space. I hope they fix this issue soon.
Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
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Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
64
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Posted - 2016.03.12 06:54:32 -
[280] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:Has anyone noticed a change in difficulty of the mini-game? I have T2 modules + rigs and have been failing recently where I only rarely did before.
Also, is anyone else getting momentary pauses on the mini-game clicks? I'm even getting them while typing this post and not sure if it's related to the CCP system changes or related to my computer/connection.
No change in difficulty detected. The lags I encounter as well, but it seems to be very random. |
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abbas kaikot
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
0
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Posted - 2016.04.25 21:52:00 -
[281] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Hi there.
There has been no change to the distribution values / spawn frequencies of all the exploration sites. The recent event sites have been added in addition, thus have not decreased the overall amount of currently existing exploration sites.
Escalations from exploration sites are currently not on the cards for the foreseeable future I'm afraid.
Dear CCP RedDawn,
Please, I beg you to reconsider this idea! Exploration as a whole would benefit immensely. It would serve primarily to get explorers out of familiar and routine site farming and into unfamiliar and potentially dangerous space- which is arguably the best characteristic of exploration as a career. Null Relic and Data sites are run mostly with a cargo scanner, oftentimes you just warp to a site, scan 6 containers, sigh, deliberately fail one and leave.
Something as simple as a success rate/timer trigger on relic and data sites that give you a destination in a more dangerous place. E.G. Hi sec sites -> Low sec Low sec sites -> Null sec Null sec sites -> W Space
This would give explorers motivation to be engaged with completing the site, and most importantly, to stray outside the comfort zone. I don't remember half the sites i've run, but I remember every time a cloaky tengu/proteus/astero/stratios tried to gank me. The explorers win, the people who like to hunt explorers win, everybody wins. |
Ransu Asanari
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
491
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Posted - 2016.04.26 18:19:00 -
[282] - Quote
From EVE Citadel Patch Notes:
Quote:The drop rates of all High-Tech goods in exploration Data sites have been greatly reduced.
Is there a reason this change is happening? I can only speculate 2 reasons:
1. Reducing the drop rate of these items so they take up less space in your exploration runs. If we just don't pick them up from sites, this doesn't really have an effect.
2. Reducing the drop rate so they become rarer, and increase in value. This only matters if there are industrial uses for these items, which there currently are not.
I would love to be enlightened on the reason for the change. |
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
292
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Posted - 2016.04.27 10:43:43 -
[283] - Quote
@Ransu Asanari You should read this.
Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
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Ransu Asanari
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
491
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Posted - 2016.04.27 18:19:43 -
[284] - Quote
Damjan Fox wrote:@Ransu Asanari You should read this.
Cool thanks - That was one update from Fanfest I didn't know about until now. I'll post some feedback in that thread. |
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