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The ME slots issue yet again!

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boumer	Posted - 2007.01.08 01:16:00 - [31] theres plenty of slots avaiable in empire right now people have made alot of effort, and alot of work, for this to happen if research companies offer the insurance, i really dont know what your on about. if ur that concerned about rhe lack of research slots, put the work in and get ur own empire resarech pos up. simple. and i post with an alt so its not obvious im advertising for my own company.
Trem Sinval Sinval Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.08 01:16:00 - [32] This has got to be the stupidest argument I have EVER heard. Witness: One Two Three This is in ONE REGION, fer peanut butter's sake. Waaa, instant gratification isn't available to me. Waaa, I have to click around for a couple of minutes to find what I need. Waaa, I can't have what I want right now. PEBKAC. - Trem
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.08 01:24:00 - [33] Edited by: ToxicFire on 08/01/2007 01:21:46 Originally by: Trem Sinval This has got to be the stupidest argument I have EVER heard. Witness: One Two Three This is in ONE REGION, fer peanut butter's sake. Waaa, instant gratification isn't available to me. Waaa, I have to click around for a couple of minutes to find what I need. Waaa, I can't have what I want right now. PEBKAC. Rofl flame, come back when you actually read what this threads about... this isn't about me its about the state of empire ME slots... I friggen have a pos lab access available to me when I want it. So it isn't an issue for me. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Kunming Amarr Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.08 01:25:00 - [34] The arguementing is solid, but its not that time of the year yet. I'm not really a researcher but I can find (and do have) research slots 9-10 jumps from Jita.. low sec ofc, carebears dont dare going there, not that I'm saying u are one, its just ppl are afraid, or maybe too lazy to use a ceptor. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Trem Sinval Sinval Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.08 01:34:00 - [35] Originally by: ToxicFire Rofl flame, come back when you actually read what this threads about... You think there aren't enought ME slots in empire to properly support new and upcoming players (incorrect), and that most of the slots that ARE available are being taken up by older players (they aren't). Quote: this isn't about me its about the state of empire ME slots... I friggen have a pos lab access available to me when I want it. So it isn't an issue for me. Then why post? Why clutter up the boards with useless tripe, when not only is your argument flawed, but direct evidence to the contrary is so painfully evident? Older players aren't doing ME research. They already have high-ME BP's with which they're producing goods. The slots are being taken up by new players, and your sillly "solution" doesn't help any middle-aged players to break into manufacturing. In point of fact, it essentially locks a player into a particular role, because if they don't pick up the ME slots as a young character, they may not have the werewithal to get a slot later on, if they decide to try out manufacturing. So, PEBKAC. - Trem
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.01.08 02:02:00 - [36] lab slots were one of the more expensive comodities back in Castor, was fixed with Exodus and it's the same as castor atm.
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 15:30:00 - [37] Bringing topic to the surface again. Yesterday did an entire empire survey of ME slots... not a single free one at all minimum average que length 10 days im gonna rumble through the db later and come back with the facts of number of slots per person now and number of slots per person a year ago. Im guessing its gonna be intresting Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Carter Burke	Posted - 2007.01.11 15:38:00 - [38] Originally by: Eponine Astarte lab slots and T2 prices are both related problems. They both came out with a certain number of players in Eve. Yet as the population exploded suddenly lab slots and T2 modules/ships became rarer/higher priced due to increased demand but fixed supply. CCP has deemed it appropriate to fix T2 prices through invention and a reseeding of the lottery in order to bring supply more in line with what demand used to be. I don't see why logically they should not do the same with station lab slots Actually, T2 should not even be in this discussion. Nice try at hijacking, though, even if you were wrong ). CB
Carter Burke	Posted - 2007.01.11 15:42:00 - [39] Originally by: ToxicFire Bringing topic to the surface again. Yesterday did an entire empire survey of ME slots... not a single free one at all minimum average que length 10 days im gonna rumble through the db later and come back with the facts of number of slots per person now and number of slots per person a year ago. Im guessing its gonna be intresting Boo hoo. 10 days, you'll be OLD by then. CB
Jas Dor Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.11 15:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Samirol or go to low sec, there are ME slots there No there aren't. The shortest wait time in the low sec regions which I play is seven days and quickly heading to nine. Pre-Kail there were free ME slots, not anymore. Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU!
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:00:00 - [41] "4. Introduce an age limiter on the number of slots you can use so the older a player you are the fewer station slots you can use. This system favours someone just getting into research." This favours alts, not new players. The solution I'd favour is to fix POS labs so that (a) personal jobs can be installed in them and (b) they can be rented to the general public; this creates profitable businesses for PLAYERS instead of NPCs. I can also see a case for creating "rapid turnaround" public labs, which can only be used for jobs shorter than 24 hours. The current NPC lab fees are trivial and should be increased signifigantly.
Menkaure Amarr Vanitas Corp.	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:02:00 - [42] People who spurt out this "go to lowsec" bullcrap seem to have no clue. Having to wait two weeks or more in (ALL OF, low and highsec) Empire space for an ME slot is absurd; there's no two ways about it. 4 or 5 days? Yeh, i could cope with that. Could probably cope with 6 or 7. But 14 days minimum (when most are in the 20-25 range) is just stupid. CCP fixed this once before when it got this bad; here's hoping they will do again. Oh, and incidentally, I do not want to join a corp (i'm a solo player), don't have the resources or the time to put up my own POS, and am not willing to hand over bpo's to someone else.
Jas Dor Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:03:00 - [43] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 08/01/2007 00:24:54 First off, your info about POS labs is plain wrong, as others have already said. Second, why don't you already have access to POS labs? It's not like you're a newbie. Third, you can rent labs from plenty of seemingly trustworthy corps. OK that idea sucks really cos I don't trust anyone, so see first and second again. Could he maybe live in a region where the Pirates are into POS ganking? It's beginning to happen now that Dreads are more common. Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU!
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Jas Dor Originally by: Samirol or go to low sec, there are ME slots there No there aren't. The shortest wait time in the low sec regions which I play is seven days and quickly heading to nine. Pre-Kail there were free ME slots, not anymore. To be clear I included low sec stations in the survey infact I included every station in the region tis fairly easy to check these days using the sience and industry setup you goto installations click current region click material research and if your lazy click toggle full list it will show you the first available free slot, in the case of an empty slot you'll get a nice big green now showing in the case of none been available you'll see the first one to become free. But that never will because someone will que on it. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Rakeris Legio VIII	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:06:00 - [45] Edited by: Rakeris on 11/01/2007 16:04:08 Originally by: ToxicFire Edited by: ToxicFire on 07/01/2007 22:25:24 Edited by: ToxicFire on 07/01/2007 22:25:04 Originally by: Samirol or go to low sec, there are ME slots there dude i live in lowsec in one of the most under populated regions in eve thats not 0.0, and theres not 1 free ME slot in the entire region Provide me with screenies of 10 independent locations in empire where there is 1 free ME slot and I'll start beliving ya Dang where is that screenshot I put up of one station near me that had like 5 free slots and most of the others where ending in a few days. But just near where I live there are generally 20 or so free slots at any one time... ---------- I gave up on sigs. As all the beatings are starting to hurt and leave nasty bruises.
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:34:00 - [46] Probibly one of the best things I did for my corp was to setup a medium pos witha few guns, and several reserach modules. It dosn't cost alot to run each week maybe 10-15M and less when you mine a little ice on top of tings. It brings your corp together to one location isntead of them running around the entire game looking for slots. -John
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:34:00 - [47] Probibly one of the best things I did for my corp was to setup a medium pos witha few guns, and several reserach modules. It dosn't cost alot to run each week maybe 10-15M and less when you mine a little ice on top of tings. It brings your corp together to one location isntead of them running around the entire game looking for slots. -John
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:34:00 - [48] Probibly one of the best things I did for my corp was to setup a medium pos witha few guns, and several reserach modules. It dosn't cost alot to run each week maybe 10-15M and less when you mine a little ice on top of tings. It brings your corp together to one location isntead of them running around the entire game looking for slots. -John
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:41:00 - [49] Edited by: ToxicFire on 11/01/2007 16:42:08 And the figures are in after plodding through the db for a short while i had the info I wanted In empire there are 440 stations with labs. Thats 20 slots a lab total of 8800 slots in empire In 0.0 there are 49 stations with labs 33 of these are player built outposts and using the stats from Outpost Alert and tombs outpost devblog Those 33 player built stations is equivalent to 3 Caldari Research Outposts 3x20slots = 60 slots 9 Gallente Administrative Outpost 9x4slots = 36 Slots 21 Ammar Factory Outposts 21x2slots = 42 slots 60 + 36 + 42 = 138 Slots from player built stations Add to that 16x20slots = 320 slots for the conquerable stations Gives us a grand total of 458 slots in 0.0 Though that figure may be slightly off as this is based on the data that was current at the time of the revelations export. So empire + 0.0 is 9258 slots in the entirety of eve assuming that everyone had access to every station with slots which isn't totally true because of docking rights on outposts. So a year ago when the daily population was around 10k it would have been roughly 1 slot per person (rember there are actually alot more outposts now than there were a year ago) Thats roughly 3 slots to every 11 players, or for the lazy 1 slot shared between 3.6recuring people. Now in reality you also have account for the fact that skills allow you to have more than one slot on the go at a time with a max of 11 slots so you multiply that by the peak daily population. 11x34000=374000 Possible simultaneous slot usages at any one time assuming everyone has lab op 5 and adv lab op 5 and the pop peak is 34000. As you can see an insane number compared to the number of slots i don't even need to do a ratio to show that. Though roughly if everyone used 11 slots simultaneously eve's slottage could be taken up by just 842 people Rember though the true pop is alot higher than 34000 not everyones active at the same time. Thats something you can't really account for accurately hence why im basing these figures on peak population to show you the tip of the iceberg rather than the full extent. In short 9258 maximum available slots using stations. Which is rather alarming, I'd love to work in pos labs to this figure aswell but no one has accurate data on the number of active pos labs at the moment... looks at oveur pleadingly cmon you've got the stats we know you do. Enjoy Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:41:00 - [50] Edited by: ToxicFire on 11/01/2007 16:42:08 And the figures are in after plodding through the db for a short while i had the info I wanted In empire there are 440 stations with labs. Thats 20 slots a lab total of 8800 slots in empire In 0.0 there are 49 stations with labs 33 of these are player built outposts and using the stats from Outpost Alert and tombs outpost devblog Those 33 player built stations is equivalent to 3 Caldari Research Outposts 3x20slots = 60 slots 9 Gallente Administrative Outpost 9x4slots = 36 Slots 21 Ammar Factory Outposts 21x2slots = 42 slots 60 + 36 + 42 = 138 Slots from player built stations Add to that 16x20slots = 320 slots for the conquerable stations Gives us a grand total of 458 slots in 0.0 Though that figure may be slightly off as this is based on the data that was current at the time of the revelations export. So empire + 0.0 is 9258 slots in the entirety of eve assuming that everyone had access to every station with slots which isn't totally true because of docking rights on outposts. So a year ago when the daily population was around 10k it would have been roughly 1 slot per person (rember there are actually alot more outposts now than there were a year ago) Thats roughly 3 slots to every 11 players, or for the lazy 1 slot shared between 3.6recuring people. Now in reality you also have account for the fact that skills allow you to have more than one slot on the go at a time with a max of 11 slots so you multiply that by the peak daily population. 11x34000=374000 Possible simultaneous slot usages at any one time assuming everyone has lab op 5 and adv lab op 5 and the pop peak is 34000. As you can see an insane number compared to the number of slots i don't even need to do a ratio to show that. Though roughly if everyone used 11 slots simultaneously eve's slottage could be taken up by just 842 people Rember though the true pop is alot higher than 34000 not everyones active at the same time. Thats something you can't really account for accurately hence why im basing these figures on peak population to show you the tip of the iceberg rather than the full extent. In short 9258 maximum available slots using stations. Which is rather alarming, I'd love to work in pos labs to this figure aswell but no one has accurate data on the number of active pos labs at the moment... looks at oveur pleadingly cmon you've got the stats we know you do. Enjoy Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Quutar Caldari Auraxian Irregulars	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:50:00 - [51] this also allows for more player driven business... People who have the ability can setup POS labs... and rent them out. Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services.
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:51:00 - [52] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/01/2007 16:49:24 Edited by: Lord WarATron on 11/01/2007 16:47:33 Just fix POS labs so that Public slots can be used by the Public. Problem solved as demand will result in people putting up research pos's for the public to rent at a price that suites the POS owner. Research corps would like this as well, as they can set a price for lablots that will generate them income passivly without having to worry about paying collateral to research somebody's t2 cerb bpo --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:52:00 - [53] Edited by: ToxicFire on 11/01/2007 16:49:13 Originally by: Quutar this also allows for more player driven business... People who have the ability can setup POS labs... and rent them out. Don't advertise please Meh it was in your sig well ok then Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Quutar Caldari Auraxian Irregulars	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:55:00 - [54] Originally by: ToxicFire Don't advertise please that was my sig (disabling the sig for this comment only, mainly to be nice) ... I was actually trying to contribute to the conversation... the current ME shortage does allow for more player driven businesses, since it takes some work to be able to setup and maintain a high sec pos, it gives those that do an additional way to make money.
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:00:00 - [55] Id like to know what your aversion is to using player run labs as opposed to the "state" run facilities....? Running numbers on just half the equation, is not very accurate, and miss-leading. There are 10's if not hundreds of pos owners out there with lab slots available.... So its not a question of supply, but desire to work with others that keeps you from your research... Trading 101
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:02:00 - [56] Originally by: Quutar Originally by: ToxicFire Don't advertise please that was my sig (disabling the sig for this comment only, mainly to be nice) ... I was actually trying to contribute to the conversation... the current ME shortage does allow for more player driven businesses, since it takes some work to be able to setup and maintain a high sec pos, it gives those that do an additional way to make money. this is true but im mainly highlighting the proportion change with the figures pos research is always good but its no real substitute for even having a ratio of 1 slot per 2 people better Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Elmicker Unscoped Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:04:00 - [57] The way i see it, you've got 4 choices. Wait. Get a pos. Pay to use someone else's pos. Move to 0.0. It's risk/loss vs. reward, just as with everything else, if you don't want to risk your shiny raven BPO in lowsec or 0.0 slots and if you dont want to fork out for player-owned slots, then you'll have to wait. This isn't like T2 where there was only one way of getting it done, which was kept strangled by a select group of people, anyone can research, its just your choice how.
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:04:00 - [58] Originally by: Kaaii Id like to know what your aversion is to using player run labs as opposed to the "state" run facilities....? Running numbers on just half the equation, is not very accurate, and miss-leading. There are 10's if not hundreds of pos owners out there with lab slots available.... So its not a question of supply, but desire to work with others that keeps you from your research... People would LOVE to use player run POS research labs. However some research companies are scams, such as R0me0's one. All ccp need to do is fix public labslots on pos's to be available to the public (Via the standard Scientific networking skill so they can install in stations). At the moment, they have to join the corp in question and put the BPO in corp hanger to use it - which has the risk of corp theives. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:07:00 - [59] Originally by: Kaaii Id like to know what your aversion is to using player run labs as opposed to the "state" run facilities....? Running numbers on just half the equation, is not very accurate, and miss-leading. There are 10's if not hundreds of pos owners out there with lab slots available.... So its not a question of supply, but desire to work with others that keeps you from your research... Go back and read the part of the post that explains why pos's aren't included in the figures. Just posting like that proves you didn't read the entire post Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Daos Leghki Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:08:00 - [60] Or, you could not be stupid and ask for collateral? I mean only T2 prints can't be reliably secured by collateral, anything else you should be able to buy off NPCs with the collateral money if the POS owner runs off. Repopulate Low-Sec Paxton Industries is Recruiting

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