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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
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CCP Optimal
C C P C C P Alliance
307
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Posted - 2015.12.17 11:15:16 -
[1] - Quote
Good day.
As some of you may already know, we have been hard at work updating the in-flight camera of EVE. As this is one of the fundamental systems of any game, we want to take good care of treading lightly and get as much player feedback as possible to make sure we get as smooth a deployment as possible when we finally get around to replacing the current camera. Today, weGÇÖre taking a step in that direction by allowing you to try out a BETA version on TQ for the next few days. To enable the new camera, simply open up the System Menu (Esc) > General Settings > Experimental Features and tick the Try the New Camera checkbox.
Instead of the lone space camera that you are all familiar with, the updated version comes in three flavors; Orbit, Tactical and First person.
The Orbit camera (alt+2) is the default one, and is always attached to a ship or structure in space. This camera is designed to give the player a more cinematic feeling and try to emphasize things like scale and speed while behaving pretty similar to the old camera in other regards.
- Field of view decreased as you zoom in, giving a much more epic sense of scale.
- Ship position on screen is offset based on the speed vector of your ship, giving a much improved sense of speed and movement.
- When looking at other ships, camera is allowed to drift, making it very easy to set up super cool fly-by shots. Drifting can be temporarily disabled by holding down the left mouse button for a steady view. When looking at your own ship, we allow an almost unnoticeable amount of drift to achieve a subtle parallax effect as the nebula moves by ever so slowly.
- Tracking camera is now activated via Alt+Shift+click and deactivated by left-dragging. The object tracked is now always offset a bit based on the direction of flight of your own ship so it doesnGÇÖt disappear behind your own ship all the time.
- New chase mode is activated by tracking the ship youGÇÖre already looking at, locking the camera straight behind your ship. This mode works amazingly well with manual flight!
- Look at is now allowed for items far away, but instead of the camera travelling, we just turn it in place so the object is centered at the screen, which is very handy for, say, directional scanning.
- Smoother zooming/orbiting, accompanied with a new camera speed setting in the system menu (this applies to all camera modes).
The Tactical camera (alt+1) is designed with more practicalities in mind and is more similar to an RTS camera. It allows for panning around the battlefield as well as rotating. In this mode, we donGÇÖt have any of the cinematic effects of the orbit camera.
- Field of view is fixed at a wide angle and none of the cinematic shenanigans of the orbit camera is present.
- Panning is achieved by right dragging.
- Camera is attached to an object by doing look at and detached by panning (NOTE: this feature sadly didnGÇÖt quite make it to the BETA but is close to completion, so youGÇÖll just have to use your imagination for now nüè) .
- While detached, the camera zooms toward the cursor instead of the center of the screen.
- The Look at command preserves zoom distance, so we essentially just pan the camera. This way battlefield overview and awareness is preserved as well.
- Tactical overlay is on by default.
The First Person camera (alt+3) is probably the least practical, yet most awesome (IMHO) of the triplets. It is highly recommended that you try it out with the not-so-long-ago-introduced manual flight feature that is mapped to the keyboard arrow keys.
- Fixed first person view with wide field of view
- Military jet style roll and pitch indicators overlay for orientation
- 3 level stepped zoom
- Precision titan bumping
- Makes you crave for joystick support
In addition to this, we have implemented marquee-select (mouse drawn rectangle selection) in space, which can be incredibly handy for those of us who enjoy interacting with the 3d scene instead of the overview whenever practical and possible. To activate marquee selection, simply hold down one of the combat shortcut keys, such as ctrl+left drag to target, ALT+left drag to do Look At and a new SHIFT+left drag to just select, making it possible to select even the fastest of drones. Note that this feature is still not quite finished, so it currently only selects one of the brackets under the marquee at random. Once itGÇÖs finished, youGÇÖll be able to do things like target multiple items at once.
The reason we release a BETA feature is so that we can collect precious feedback and iterate before we turn it into the actual thing. WeGÇÖre really excited to hear which of those features/changes you love or hate and donGÇÖt be shy to suggest improvements.
Bonus Challenge: Whoever creates the slickest YouTube video using the new camera gets a GǪ free high-five, delivered by me at next Fanfest. GO!
Known issues:
- Camera does not attach to target in tactical mode
- Jump effect is borked
- Camera mode preference is not persisted on jumping
- Marquee select only selects a single item
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Nyctef
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
123
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Posted - 2015.12.17 12:02:49 -
[2] - Quote
Sounds awesome, can't wait to try it out :D |
Veskin Sentinel
Vagrant Skies A Band Apart.
20
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Posted - 2015.12.17 12:06:28 -
[3] - Quote
o7
Looks nice, smooth and brand new.
However, I think that the tracking camera in the Orbit mode has changed too drastically. Old tracking options give a sense of immersion - turning to a selected object. The shortcut of Alt+Shift+ left click is too complex when you just want to turn the camera to the selected item - something that was done with a single click before. Not to mention that the sudden shift of view makes a player lose sense of their position. In that field I think the old camera tracking is just fine. Don't change it.
I miss the regular camera radial menu where options like "Center Tracking Position" and "Custom Tracking Position" were present, along with the other two options. I think it would be nice to have them back - the radial menu with these options should be available just for the Orbit camera.
And maybe we should be able to turn the First Person camera to some degree (with a mouse drag).
Other than that I think a good proress is made, well done guys!
www.veskin7.blogspot.com - my EVE related blog.
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Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
45
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Posted - 2015.12.17 12:09:51 -
[4] - Quote
2 things : Tracking Camera and FOV :
- Alt+Shift+Click doesn't work on Anomalies or Bookmarks. - Bring the button back wether we want to see an 'aligned tracking' or not (i don't care hiding what i'm selecting with my ship as long as i got my directionnal scan result). - This is just really annoying to click shortcuts to get the same feeling i had previously, i don't want to click ALT+SHIFT then mouse-click to have my camera tracking my selected item, please, let us activate auto tracking with C just like before.
- FOV is neat, but you should concider redrawing nebulas then as they tend to render pixelised now, like a very bad rendered photoshop picture.
Changes i appreciate :
- Ability to chose with button which view we wish, and not being 'obliged' to switch just by zooming too far out or too close in. - Camera 'inertia' removed or slightly decreased. - Scales felt like never before. - Undocking looks cool. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1569
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Posted - 2015.12.17 12:14:06 -
[5] - Quote
Still cannot get used to the up/down in first person being the opposite to almost every other game in first person. |
Avon Salinder
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2015.12.17 12:19:26 -
[6] - Quote
Looks like you've turned the FoV intensity down a bit from my last try on sisi - it's good, much less nausea when panning around. The whole thing seems quite smooth, though I do currently question the relevance of of first-person view beyond bumping stuff. The controls are not relative to the direction the hull is pointing so it seems quite unintuitive to fly, and there's no 'radar' scanner to show you the direction of things relative to your point of view. I think the FPS HUD needs to convey more information on positions of things around you so you can manoeuvre towards/away them etc, as required. Otherwise it's coming along nicely. |
Loch Bannon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2015.12.17 12:26:40 -
[7] - Quote
Some very cool changes to the camera. I enjoy the new FOV, smoother camera movements, and it's actually neat to be able to see my ship from a first person perspective.
One option I wish had remained was the ability to "Toggle Point Camera to Selected item" without the need to use a keyboard shortcut every time. I may well be a minority user of this feature however, I've found it extremely useful to be able to simply see what I want by having the camera point to the item in space that I select. After opting in, I can no longer use this feature even after opting back out it at this time it appears. (even after resetting the keybind).
Excited to see where this new feature goes, thanks for putting it out there.
"I fly from an 'od'. -áThere is no 'pee' in it, let's keep it that way."
--Lochness
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Mischa Gau'ss Tesla
La F0ndati0n The Bastion
2
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Posted - 2015.12.17 12:31:16 -
[8] - Quote
First try today, had seen some videos on youtube from sisi... FOV much better, still a bit of a pixel-fest start at full zoom. Also, tab is now switching cams (tactical-orbit-fps-tactical-...), was collapsing windows before... couldn't find the option to reset this to previous use (tbh, I will NEVER be switching cams this way ^^') |
Kronossan
Bellum Esca
53
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Posted - 2015.12.17 12:52:37 -
[9] - Quote
- Kinetic zoom effect in Orbit mode too pronounced; sometimes the camera keeps zooming in or out, seconds after I've stopped scrolling, forcing me to correct zoom level
- When zoomed in far, the star background can look really pixelated/low quality
- When alt+shift+clicking object to track while d-scan window is open, it seems to automatically center the camera on the object. It would be nice to have a checkbox for this feature in the d-scan window (like we had previously). It also doesn't work consistently.
- I get really dizzy when I use the orbit camera and am zoomed into my ship for a while. I'm not prone to motion-sickness normally and am not drunk either. I do notice an improvement over the last iteration I tried on SISI, though.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2957
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Posted - 2015.12.17 12:56:08 -
[10] - Quote
How about right-drag to steer during first person?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Five All
1
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Posted - 2015.12.17 13:48:03 -
[11] - Quote
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=577342181
works great for screenshots |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3737
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Posted - 2015.12.17 13:51:49 -
[12] - Quote
"Look at is now allowed for items far away, but instead of the camera travelling, we just turn it in place so the object is centered at the screen, which is very handy for, say, directional scanning. "
I do not see the option. I was sitting in a belt, selected a stargate, a planet, and a moon, and no Look At option was available either in selected Item or right click.
"When looking at other ships, camera is allowed to drift, making it very easy to set up super cool fly-by shots. Drifting can be temporarily disabled by holding down the left mouse button for a steady view. "
The drift is quite annoying. You always end up looking at the rear end of the target ship as it flies off into the distance. Yes, it can be disabled, but if I want to examine the other ship, by moving the camera, looking, moving the camera, looking, and so on, it gets quite tiresome as every time I stop to look, the target ship drifts off and I end up looking at its rear, again.
The "look at" button (the eye) in selected items: Sometimes after using it, it DOES NOT have the red X across it. You cannot use it to stop looking at something. Many time you first need to select a different object, then select the object you were looking at, to get the red X to show.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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ChrisDude70
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
29
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Posted - 2015.12.17 14:03:57 -
[13] - Quote
Kronossan wrote:
- Kinetic zoom effect in Orbit mode too pronounced; sometimes the camera keeps zooming in or out, seconds after I've stopped scrolling, forcing me to correct zoom level
This is my problem. It's far too floaty. Let me be precise with my camera positioning. |
Tim Garrison
Vision Inc Hole Control
1
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Posted - 2015.12.17 14:59:47 -
[14] - Quote
The Tracking with new camera doesnt work for me and If I switch back to the old one, the buttons to left side of the cap disappear and I have to clear cache to get it working again. |
Nyalnara
The Unchained Club
196
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Posted - 2015.12.17 16:32:26 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:
- Ship position on screen is offset based on the speed vector of your ship, giving a much improved sense of speed and movement.
While pretty much everything else is both good-looking and not (too much) impractical, this particular point is the only thing that bother me. Because i managed to loose a ship as it went offscreen (and/or it goes hiding behind windows, which is as annoying). No kidding. (It may have been way too fast...)
But that's not the only problem, as i also find it way harder to do manual piloting because i cannot use my ship anymore as a reference point on my display when trying to adjust my course.
Kronossan wrote:
- Kinetic zoom effect in Orbit mode too pronounced; sometimes the camera keeps zooming in or out, seconds after I've stopped scrolling, forcing me to correct zoom level
That, too.
French half-noob.
CEO of [.TUC.] The Unchained Club
Founder of [DEUPP] Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
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Tikktokk Tokkzikk
Wilderness
293
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Posted - 2015.12.17 16:37:21 -
[16] - Quote
While it's a massive improvement from when I first tried it on SISI, the Orbital Camera is a clear downgrade to what we've currently got on TQ for manual piloting. The camera movement feels sluggish compared to what we've got now and the FOV decrease severely limits my situational awareness. The Look At function is much slower, which is very annoying when trying to look for micro jump activation or weapon systems. The "cinematic feeling" should not take priority over usability!
Besides that, I really like the changes. The tactical camera is great and I've had a lot of fun with it and the the new grid sizes.
Bug: Looking At an object won't show the Look At My Ship button (the eye with a red X) on the Selected Items window until I selectet the object again. |
Zero-G
New Eden Tourism
5
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Posted - 2015.12.17 16:38:25 -
[17] - Quote
The look-at option for far away object seems useful. Would be nice if Alt-click would allow to center the view on anomalies too.
Not sure if this is related to the borked jumps, but when I jump/undock using the beta camera my next out-gate is never selected by default like it would be when using the old cam. This is very inconvenient for travel.
Edit: The zooming in the orbit camera mode seems a bit broken. It takes a few turns of the mouse wheel to zoom out but just one turn in the other direction zooms in all the way. This makes it hard to adjust the camera distance. |
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
645
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Posted - 2015.12.17 16:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
First person mode would be better if you could left drag to steer and right drag to look. This would allow more than just cosmetic usage and help you keep positional awareness.
Also since it is clear first person mode is setting up for VR implementation into EVE, we know you've got free look functionality in the works anyway!
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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CCP Optimal
C C P C C P Alliance
307
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Posted - 2015.12.17 17:08:10 -
[19] - Quote
Thanks for all the great feedback! I've already started making fixes and adjustments based on it |
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Helushka Bodaway
The Merchant Marine's Test Alliance Please Ignore
105
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Posted - 2015.12.17 18:49:28 -
[20] - Quote
Something I would like to know is while using the "orbit" camera will the option of being able to right click and hold to adjust your ship position on the screen be available again? I ask because while it may be offset a bit it simply isn't enough or close to enough. Rule of thirds man!!! When looking at a ship or one set as interest while zoomed out you can see the ship but if you zoom in enough to fill the screen with your ship the target is still behind your ship. |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3480
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Posted - 2015.12.17 18:58:31 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote: [list]
Field of view decreased as you zoom in, giving a much more epic sense of scale. Ship position on screen is offset based on the speed vector of your ship, giving a much improved sense of speed and movement.
if those two features could be disabled somehow i would keep using the new camera. Maybe ad another option in the settings "cinematic mode" so we can turn it off. Having the ship chasing behind the camera focus point feels for me like the game is lagging behind player input - the old cam feels more "direct".
And i really dislike dynamic FOV but thats probably only my personal preference. Maybe i can get used to it.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1592
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Posted - 2015.12.17 19:23:55 -
[22] - Quote
Played with it a bit on TQ; but most of my feedback is going to be identical from when it was on Sisi.
First-person mode: + Fun as hell to play with, outside of combat. - Largely useless in combat, because of the Inability to look around at least temporarily. Even a pilot in an airplane can turn his head - why can't we, as capsuleers, do the same? - Camera forces itself to Orbit mode when jumping through a gate or using an MJD. Having to keep setting it back to first-person mode is pretty annoying if for some reason I want to stay using it.
Orbit mode: + Camera sets an object as its focus position for movement and sticks with it, as the old camera does. Good, except - I still don't like that it doesn't actually focus on my ship, but some random point in space in front of it. If I wanted to do that I'd like the tracking camera to have that as an optional setting. - I still don't like the FOV setting for this mode but it feels better than it was before on SIsi. Makes camera manipulation feel awkward, sluggish and nauseating, and I will likely not use this camera much as long as it remains in this state. - Tracking camera, as exists, doesn't really have any easy equivalent to access that is obvious.
Tactical mode: + Has the FOV from the current camera, which is easy on my eyes and isn't a pain in the ass for scrolling and manipulating the camera. - Manipulating the camera still feels pretty sluggish compared to default TQ camera, though. - Still doesn't allow me to lock the camera focus on my ship and have that remain the center of my screen like the old camera does. Seriously, fix this. I shouldn't have to keep alt-clicking on my ship to bring it back to the center of my screen, and coupled with the nauseating FOV of the Orbit mode that actually DOES lock the camera around an object, I'm basically stuck with two largely useless camera modes because the desirable behavior from the mode with the undesirable FOV setting is not available in the mode with the desirable FOV setting. (tl;dr - lots of regression in behavior and functionality here.)
Requested tweaks from me: * Allow me to force the tactical camera to stay locked on an object in motion rather than just snapping the focal point to where it was when I clicked on it, and then forgetting about it. ESPECIALLY my own ship. * Toggle for "cinematic" mode in Orbit camera. Sure your FOV tweak makes the sense of scale "epic" but there's a reason I have never, EVER deliberately tweaked the FOV on the camera before: it's seriously nauseating and makes controlling the camera feel sluggish. It's great for taking pictures. It's terrible for actually playing the game. * Ability to look around while in first-person mode rather than being locked into looking forward. Even better: seeing my ship hull, on the ships where the camera point is near where a bridge of cockpit would be.
Edit: To go into more general terms, the existing camera we've had for years has generally poor cinematic quality, but its functional quality is fairly high for most day to day use. The current state of the new camera is the opposite: it is high on cinematic quality but its functional quality is atrocious at best (imo) in that many of the features of the default camera are either missing, hard to access, or not appropriately placed within the new camera modes. Essentially, at the moment we are exchanging functional quality for cinematic quality, and that is NOT a trade I would expect many to be okay with.
We're looking at a situation similar to the beta map - it took the better part of half a year for it to really approach anything resembling the functional quality of the existing map, and it's still missing functionality that the existing map has.
Remember - just because you can make it look pretty doesn't mean you should, if it's at the expense of ease of use. Doubly so when you're ******* with something as potentially nausea-inducing as the field of view.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Owner, The Golden Masque
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Forrae Deren
Wraith.Wing Get Off My Lawn
2
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Posted - 2015.12.17 19:27:35 -
[23] - Quote
Things I like: ~tactical mode is pretty neat, gives a nice view of the field ~orbit camera has a nice cinematic quality to it ~first person view, while mostly a gimmick, is pretty fun to toy with
Things I dislike: ~orbit camera feels a little "loose." there's a bit too much drift ~feels a little off center, probably due to drift ~finding it hard to center on far objects to dscan them ~even though I'm not prone to it, I can see how certain aspects of the orbit cam can cause motion sickness in those who are prone to it ~alt+shift+click is a little much just to center on something
For the most part, new camera controls seem interesting and do make things a little more cinematic and can show off scale pretty well. just has some rough edges that should be worked out. I'll probably leave it on for a while and experiment some more with it. |
Tornii
Infinite Point Northern Army
86
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Posted - 2015.12.17 19:35:11 -
[24] - Quote
The orbit camera target offset breaks the quick and functional 'click target > tracking camera centres on selection > click D-scan' process many of us have gotten used to. I understand the new camera offset function and the tracking camera centre function can not coexist but maybe you guys can think of a way out of this frustrating outcome.
Socialism must eradicate capitalism before capitalism eradicates civilisation
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Helushka Bodaway
The Merchant Marine's Test Alliance Please Ignore
105
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Posted - 2015.12.17 20:29:18 -
[25] - Quote
In the tactical mode is there a way to actually move the camera or is it simply stuck in a position that you can zoom and rotate? |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1592
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Posted - 2015.12.17 20:42:03 -
[26] - Quote
Helushka Bodaway wrote:In the tactical mode is there a way to actually move the camera or is it simply stuck in a position that you can zoom and rotate? Right-click and drag pans the camera now.
Forgot to add that to my things I don't like about it, heh. I much prefer the right-click to pivot the camera.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Owner, The Golden Masque
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Bertral
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.12.17 20:48:57 -
[27] - Quote
Great work !
I have 2 suggestions : - Make the camera more responsive, it has too much inertia. Or give us a slide to adjust this. - Make the shortcuts so you can toggle between views with only one button. Currently, pressing Alt-1 while in tactical view does nothing. I would like to be able to press Alt-1 again to go back to the orbit view. Alt-3 while already in FPS mode would make you go back to default (orbit) too. |
Helushka Bodaway
The Merchant Marine's Test Alliance Please Ignore
105
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Posted - 2015.12.17 21:00:36 -
[28] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:Helushka Bodaway wrote:In the tactical mode is there a way to actually move the camera or is it simply stuck in a position that you can zoom and rotate? Right-click and drag pans the camera now. Forgot to add that to my things I don't like about it, heh. I much prefer the right-click to pivot the camera.
Ok thanks, yeah I see that now. Now with all of that going on, am I mistaken in thinking we have lost all ability to change any camera FoV within the new camera system? One thing I REALLY don't like about the new orbital camera is having lost the ability to hold right click and change the "offset" of where my ship is on the screen. Is there a way to do this?
**Edit**
Have we also lost the entire Parent and Interest abilities as well with the new camera? Or perhaps my question would be better asked as to how we can generate a "fly by" in the camera now instead of the old way of using the Parent/Interest options... |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1592
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Posted - 2015.12.17 21:55:42 -
[29] - Quote
Yes, we have lost those.
The new camera trades almost all of the functionality of the old one, for a gain in cinematic quality.
Not a great trade.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Owner, The Golden Masque
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Helushka Bodaway
The Merchant Marine's Test Alliance Please Ignore
105
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Posted - 2015.12.17 22:16:50 -
[30] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:Yes, we have lost those.
The new camera trades almost all of the functionality of the old one, for a gain in cinematic quality.
Not a great trade.
Well I really hate to be that guy, but with the news of the new camera system I was hoping with what little info we had on it that life was going to ROCK for screenshot artists and video makers. However, as it stands in this beta form that simply isn't the case. We have actually gone a step backwards IMO... Are there any other hidden ways to achieve what we could before within the new camera system?
I always look forward new features, so I'm still hoping we get more features to allow us to continue with the screenshots and killer videos. |
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