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Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:07:00 - [1] Edited by: Kaaii on 16/01/2007 23:05:21 So you've no doubt seen these, battle ships screaming along at the speed rivaling some top notch interceptors, a fine article on this was written by an allince mate here, So, Good? Bad? or just screaming for a stacking penalty/nerf? (much to the screaming of the current users...) /discuss Trading 101
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:27:00 - [2] I blame inertia stabilizers for this. Oh and any arazu jock worth a damn would have at least two sensor damps on target, a jam can be missed.
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:34:00 - [3] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan I blame inertia stabilizers for this. Oh and any arazu jock worth a damn would have at least two sensor damps on target, a jam can be missed. isn't dampening enough to trigger drone attack anyway? But yes, as the article pointed out, its pretty much ridiculous, seeing a BS out run ceptors. I also think its a repsonse from the 8 stabathon community looking for the "next best thing" Trading 101
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:37:00 - [4] Edited by: Aramendel on 16/01/2007 23:35:15 While I personally argue against nanoships I must say the article is bad, because it has a few errors in it. - the scoop/redeploy tactic does not work with nanoships because they are 6 times as fast as ogres. They would have to slow down to "normal" speeds to egt them - which makes them quite vulnerable. Killing the drones is a viaable tactic vs them. - for fitting he forgot rigs which have a major effect on them. 3 t1 MWD rigs ("vent") give it ~45% higher speed - almost as much as a highgrade snake set. - you do not need ECM if you have a lachesis or arazu. If webbed by a minnie recon they can completely disable it with damperners. In fact, a minnie and gal recon together should be able to kill a nanoship alone, they do not much dps, but a nanoship has no tank. It will take a bit to chew through its hitpoints, but it will die. Of cource, the same is the case for any other (non-nano) BS if caught by a minnie/gal recon tagteam, it's not a weakness unique to nanoships. Originally by: Kaaii isn't dampening enough to trigger drone attack anyway? AFAIK drones (and FOF missiles, for that matter) do not attack targets outside a ships targeting range. But I am not 100% sure there.
Gadfly Hawke G-Tek Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:38:00 - [5] There is no physical reason why a battleship can't fly as fast as an interceptor, so long as a thrust is applied. The only speed difference should be the time that it takes a BS to achieve the speed of light compared to the time that it takes an interceptor. G-Tek is recruiting
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:42:00 - [6] Originally by: Gadfly Hawke There is no physical reason why a battleship can't fly as fast as an interceptor, so long as a thrust is applied. There is a physical reason why a BS can't be as agile as a ceptor, though. Inertia. If you take physics into the picture a BS should only be able to make strafing runs - starting 50k away, acellerating, flying by, doing some dps, breaking, stopping 50k away. Nevermind that a physics argument is pretty pointless here. SPace behaves in reality also not like it is filled with water like eve space does. The game is not based on reality in the first place.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:47:00 - [7] nah...someone has to go from "yellow flashy" to "red flashy" for the drones to go tearing off on their own. That's assumeing the nano pilot didn't target and give a attack order before all the jamming/damping started. That said web/scram/jam/damp the hell out of the nano ship if possible then kill off the drones or force a "return to dronebay" order. Both outcomes pulls the nano BS's teeth nicely.
Sebmagic Caldari In Articulo Mortis	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:29:00 - [8] You don't need inertia much in space... so it shouldn't be much of an issue anyways....
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:44:00 - [9] That's hilarious, you don't need a such a huge gang to kill a nano-ship. Once you have it webbed and scrambled you can tear through it's non-existant tank like tissue-paper. Tanking Survivability Calculator
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:44:00 - [10] That's hilarious, you don't need a such a huge gang to kill a nano-ship. Once you have it webbed and scrambled you can tear through it's non-existant tank like tissue-paper. Tanking Survivability Calculator
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:49:00 - [11] "That's hilarious, you don't need a such a huge gang to kill a nano-ship. Once you have it webbed and scrambled you can tear through it's non-existant tank like tissue-paper." That's a bit like saying you don't need more than one ticket to win the lottery... once you pick the right numbers, you're all set -.^ (while technically true, easier said than done)
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:54:00 - [12] A single ship can annoy one enough via damping/ECM at beyond drone control range to force it to go someplace else for kills. The tatic worked wonders on vagas during RMR.
Ice Conch	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:59:00 - [13] Originally by: j0sephine "That's hilarious, you don't need a such a huge gang to kill a nano-ship. Once you have it webbed and scrambled you can tear through it's non-existant tank like tissue-paper." That's a bit like saying you don't need more than one ticket to win the lottery... once you pick the right numbers, you're all set -.^ (while technically true, easier said than done) except the probability of having an available huginn/rapier pilot online in your alliance is a lot higher than winning the lottery
Leto Twin Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 02:55:00 - [14] I hate them. Gangs of nanophoons can wreck anything in it's path, unless they are outnumbered 5:1. Nerf nanos. They are the new WCS.
Gut Punch Gallente The Revenant	Posted - 2007.01.17 03:39:00 - [15] Is everyone so uncreative that they can't fight someone just a little outside the box? One of these hyped up battleships are so vulnerable. Not only that, they are some of the most expensive setups you can make. The easiest way for you to wax one of these things, using the senerio presented in the OP's link, is to fix the loadouts of the ship in the group. First, each of those ships involved should have their own Webber, if not more than one. Don't target the Dom first! His drones, being heavys, are slower than snot. Target the drones, fire missiles at the drones, and Web the drones so you can hit them with your turret weapons. If everyone starts pooring the fire into the drones, and pulverizes a couple of them, the Dom has a couple of choices. Either he will recall his remaining drones, count his losses (which are more than most of your fleet), and leave OR he will close to NOS range in an attempt to save his drones. If he choses to get into NOS range, then you can throw a party knowing that you can cost this guy a ship and fittings far more expensive than your entire fleet. Everyone switches their webs to the Dom and there weapons follow. His complete disreguard for tanking, increased signature radius, and over worked capacitor will give you the opportunity to give him the damage before his NOS can force you out of the fight. Your battleship should be able to eat this guy alive. If he tries to deploy more drones, your other ships can use their missiles on the new drones while still keeping the Dom webbed. Once the Dom has lost his inertia and can be held by two or three webs, you can again switch some of the webs to his drones and cost him some more money. It comes down to you just hammering away at the webbed Dom until he pops. Sure there is a good chance you could lose a ship from your fleet, but the costs of a frig or cruiser pale to the cost your fleet just gave to the guy who lost several T2 Heavys, a battleship, and all of his expensive fittings. The problem I see isn't with the nanos. It with you and your squadmates not building loadouts that enable them to cope with someone who comes at you with something outside the box. --- Gut Punch The Revenant --- Playing as Caldari is EVE on Easy Mode...
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.17 03:47:00 - [16] Edited by: Blind Man on 17/01/2007 03:52:53 lol @ the argument about the INVINCIBLE DEATH WAGON!!!1111(LOL) the whole thing written to say this 1)Now go fly out and try not to be an idiot and get killed, since then your opponent gets massive gloating rights. .... 2)This maneuver, as difficult as it is to pull off and using such specialized shipsà is the only way to kill any non-retarded nanoship pilot. both of those mess up the whole argument..saying you need skill to fly one and if you are a noob you die a quick and embarrassing death show that they aren't the 'invincible death wagons' the article leads you to believe they are. àat least until the eventual nerf wrecks you for infinite damage and makes you spill tiny, tiny tears. When that comes, may I suggest you invest in a Tiny Violin II? Many people will offer good prices, but little pity. Have fun while it lasts. lol. my favorite part about nerf-nano posts. anyone who thinks nerfing nanoships will change anything for experienced pvp corps is sadly mistaken, gangs will just get bigger and bigger as much as the target area requires, filled with heavy tanking hard hitting ships like sleipnirs, absolutions, astarte, geddons, megathrons, etc. gl hf.
Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.17 04:06:00 - [17] I think the whole problem with Nano/Istab BS's is that they can pick and choose their fights, and they are near impossible to catch. If they are on the loosing end fx. they just disengage and get the **** out! I dont think their offensive and tanking capabilities suffer enough to get that kind of advantage. (yes 4-5K m/s makes for a mean tank!) People have been whining over a highly specialized 300M Isk ship, but now that the Phoon and Domi can do they same everyone goes Weeeee... Something is wrong in the state of Eve when BS's go faster than interceptors, simple as that! I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.17 04:13:00 - [18] time to apply a NOS penalty on nano setups ( that would make the tank run less and therefore hit the speed limit of these things) would make it a bit more tactical without a direct nerf
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.17 04:32:00 - [19] Can we keep the nano-crying to one thread, please? I'm finding it hard to reply to them all and showing it's easy enough to take out a nanoship with two ships of virtually any class. ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Leto Twin Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 04:38:00 - [20] I know plenty of good ways to kill them if they are in 2 or 3s, but any gangs of them larger than that and they can *****and pillage anything in their path. I think it is just an excuse. Nanos = the new WCS. BSes are not supossed to move at 4km/s. They are not interceptors that have a starting speed of 500 m/s. They usually start at much closer to the 200 m/s range.
Aries Acheron Caldari The Valour United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.17 04:42:00 - [21] NanoBS pilots are quite adamant about their setups. :) Let me explain the issue here, really. Even with 'your whole gang carrying webs'... you're still deploying a gang against a single ship. A single ship that can defeat many types of ships, and withdraw effortlessly from those it can't. That's a mighty strong power. Interceptors are beloved for it, but they're lightly armed, and literally instantly explode if a single good hit is placed on them. Your battleship meanwhile has enough HP to get the hell out of dodge if something catastrophic happens such as bumping a roid for a second and losing it's speed. Let's not forget webs have only a 10 km range, unless you're using either a faction web, or a minmatar recon. Now, since a warp disruptor has a 20km range, your NOS has at least a 20km range, and your ship moves about as fast as a cruise missile (at least!)... why would you ever fight within 10km range? Not to mention most nanosetups that get beyond 5k are still able to withdraw from a big ship that has a web, or NOS-out a small ship with a web. I do believe most of those points stand. A half-assed nanoship with an idiot pilot will get killed, just like any ship. A decent nanoship with an average pilot can decimate everything short of a large gang, or flee without consequence. See the issue? ~~~ Action! Suspense! Jita! http://survive-eve.blogspot.com/
Leto Twin Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 04:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Aries Acheron NanoBS pilots are quite adamant about their setups. :) Let me explain the issue here, really. Even with 'your whole gang carrying webs'... you're still deploying a gang against a single ship. A single ship that can defeat many types of ships, and withdraw effortlessly from those it can't. That's a mighty strong power. Interceptors are beloved for it, but they're lightly armed, and literally instantly explode if a single good hit is placed on them. Your battleship meanwhile has enough HP to get the hell out of dodge if something catastrophic happens such as bumping a roid for a second and losing it's speed. Let's not forget webs have only a 10 km range, unless you're using either a faction web, or a minmatar recon. Now, since a warp disruptor has a 20km range, your NOS has at least a 20km range, and your ship moves about as fast as a cruise missile (at least!)... why would you ever fight within 10km range? Not to mention most nanosetups that get beyond 5k are still able to withdraw from a big ship that has a web, or NOS-out a small ship with a web. I do believe most of those points stand. A half-assed nanoship with an idiot pilot will get killed, just like any ship. A decent nanoship with an average pilot can decimate everything short of a large gang, or flee without consequence. See the issue? <3! Thank you. You expressed it ways that I tried to, and failed (so I posted what I did, above).
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.17 04:51:00 - [23] The solution is to beam all the i-stabs and nanos over to the Klingon ship, where they'll be no tribble at all. (I hope you don't change the topic! ) --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Ephemeron The Syndicate Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.17 05:10:00 - [24] Applying stacking penalty to agility modifier would be the easiest and best step in right direction. Even if that won't solve the issue entirely, it would make things better without major game changes.
Leto Twin Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 05:17:00 - [25] Originally by: Ephemeron Applying stacking penalty to agility modifier would be the easiest and best step in right direction. Even if that won't solve the issue entirely, it would make things better without major game changes. And speed/intertia attributes?
Daelmon Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.17 05:35:00 - [26] Bad. Nerf Nanos.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2007.01.17 05:50:00 - [27] Don't nerf nanos. My dear CEO uses them to hunt down**abonds and interceptors. Playing Caldari-Online** as a Amarr specced is PURE Hardcore (aka. stupid).
Leto Twin Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 06:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Kuolematon Don't nerf nanos. My dear CEO uses them to hunt down****abonds and interceptors. It would slow down Vagas, too. Because they often use nanos, no? And I am going to have to steal some of your kills for that comment?
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2007.01.17 07:36:00 - [29] Originally by: Leto Twin It would slow down Vagas, too. Because they often use nanos, no? And I am going to have to steal some of your kills for that comment? You get Sadao from my cold dead hands! Playing Caldari-Online as a Amarr specced is PURE Hardcore (aka. stupid).
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.17 07:59:00 - [30] have em if fitted the penalty could either be a NOS nerfing and or a nerfing to tracking speed ( moving quicker = harder to hit) - sensor damps are useful to

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