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Madlightning
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
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Posted - 2015.12.21 08:21:41 -
[1] - Quote
The Most of us that have been playing Eve For Years. have watched the Game Change like we have Never would of expected,
Cruisers, Frigs, Destroyers, recently battlecruisers, and Soon Capitals and Super capitals. but for some reason Battleship Have Barly worth mentioning, soon Dreads will have the Option to put the Beatdown. on Battleship and battlecruisers(To an Extent)
(Cause:1)As Long Lived avg battleship pilot myself, i kinda Fee Left out, recently CCP spoke about the changes to carriers, and it makes me think. When you See a Battleship what is its Role. it all depends on the Battleship. Me personaly I see battleships in some cases Gun Platforms Prime and Ready. to Put the Beatdown on people, other battleships i See as Gridholders ships that Have The Hardwere to hit anything Nearby by anymeans Loaded with guns Able to Target, Hit,Track, Ships of any Type, without the "NEED" for Ewar but not easly Held down by 3-4 Frigs And pounded on unable to Fight back, Due to the Natural Fitting of the ship. mainly the Shild fit Ships. Certain armor ships
Ships that Can in fact Hold Their own. Mainly pirate ships
some battleships should have Exceptionaly high Tracking(DPS low) and or Weapons mods that can cover a 20-30km Bubble alot of people think oh Toss on a Smart bomb. well that comes at a risk 1 if you have droness and person i orbiting you at less then 5k your going to pop your own drones and 1 Large smart bomb not going to Do a whole alot most of the time.
Most battleships Due to Reload pack around 300-600 DPS depending on fit. There needs to be a Battleship exclusive mod. that puts out 250 DPS Capped with lvl 5 (requires Testing/balence) that can Track and hit Small class ships inside that Range. for Turreted battleships only(i fly caldari mainly) the struggle is not there to "hit" small ships but for ships like the Rohk, Abaddon, Megathron, Apoc, Tempest, Maelstrom, Scorpion(we have to talk about that one #oddball #bestshipingame), Dominix, wait domi?( nvm GTFO you have drones you micro mini carrier),
Possable Issues you might have ex:people "Hey madlightning you Srub people are just going to stick a bunch of those mods on a battlleship and Tank the ship to hell and Swarm them", to most Vet players when you look at 250 DPS that is a decent number on small ships. ut when you look at Cruisers and Larger ships+ resists. and movment 250 DPS looks more like 175-200DPS if not less and Battleship should onyl be able to place 1 of these mods in a high slot Lowering its Main Source a DPS to a Degree, and would also take up a decent ammount of PowerGrid/CPU and Can be Dsirupted with Ewar tracking E-War would have a 100-200% effect on this mod rendering it Useless, soo the 175-200 dps. Looks more like 5 dps. and 5-10% Sig increase protection comes at a cost. When your on Grid with a battleship 1 Lone frig non stealth bomber should not be able to perma lock down a battle and kill it with death by 1 mill paper cuts. i have seen it befor. Assault Frigs also They are Much more Beefy and should easly handle the mod without causing Major trouble. the MAX range for this would be 15KM. unless Marauder bastion becomes a "thing"
Null sec people: "whats stopping Huge Fleets of battleships from Cleaning Field in null sec with this anti-craft weapon" 1 well another battleship fleet. 2. a Fleet of capitals 3. bombs. 4. don't titans have the new Doomsday device comming soon(Can't Warp while the Device is active"micro warp?" NOPE,) When your in a small ship and you land on grid with a Battleship it should be like Let me be Smart. or die.
lets call it a D-Fence system this does not have a High Damage ticks But Very Rapid Ticks(Animation of the system is not related) and Can Load Scipts 30-60 sec loading time to Missle/Bomb Targeting because WE ALL KNOW HOW GREAT DEFENDER MISSLES are. it will be auto/toggle mod. can can destroy 10-30% of missles flying through its Field of View unless its 1-2 missles, depending on size of missles S/M/L/C group Capital size missles would Lucky To Destroy 1 meanwhile Rockets will be 80% of the rockets should be intercepted
Please Feel Free to Add/Comment if you Disagree Please DO so in a constructive way all of these IDEA flexable. some may just not be good ideas, but Battleships do need some Love and a Solid place in High/Low/Null sec and WH space to make them stand out.
My :Comment i Seen a 15 person cruiser fleet fight a 6-7 battle ship fleet Was a while ago but the Cruiser fleet got away with 13 People battleship fleet Wiped by Drones. if most battleship can't battle what are they? just ships? They Need to be like battllefield Utility ships there should be a Reason you want FEW on field. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42113
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 08:41:47 -
[2] - Quote
CCP buff Machariel.
J/k. Aside from the Mach, I agree OP. BS could use some love.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
463
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 09:29:15 -
[3] - Quote
Wanna melt a target? Caps do it faster.
Wanna tank the world? Caps do it better.
Wanna blame your loss on the people around you? Caps do it better.
Battleships got replaced by caps. |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17068
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 09:30:54 -
[4] - Quote
I can get my battleships to do all of the above.
The biggest problem battleships have is the fact that t3 cruisers get the same EHP while sporting a sig a fraction of the size, Greater speed and cap stability.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Krevnos
Back Door Burglars The Otherworld
47
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 10:26:30 -
[5] - Quote
I wouldn't hold my breath for any useful roles for battleships coming up soon: we told CCP they were useless over a year ago and they accused us of lying. |

Madlightning
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 10:31:55 -
[6] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Wanna melt a target? Caps do it faster.
Wanna tank the world? Caps do it better.
Wanna blame your loss on the people around you? Caps do it better.
Battleships got replaced by caps.
i agree that pricetag though how many times have you been like lets spend the day risking caps.
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Madlightning
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
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Posted - 2015.12.21 10:40:28 -
[7] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I can get my battleships to do all of the above.
The biggest problem battleships have is the fact that t3 cruisers get the same EHP while sporting a sig a fraction of the size, Greater speed and cap stability.
i hear you there. T3 Ships come at a Risk though. T3 ship without a doubt are Better in most way then battle ships but Not everyone can Freely Risk/Lose a T3 ship when ever.
what battle ship with turrets can Fend of frigs out to 15 KM without it being a missle ship or Cramming E-war webs and scrams? Most peopel can Grab a Vendicator double webs micro warp and a scramm and Punch Most people face in without trying. thats it If you are in a Ship that does not get any DPS Perks to it. or tracking your like at a loss, 
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17071
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 11:09:02 -
[8] - Quote
Madlightning wrote:
what battle ship with turrets can Fend of frigs out to 15 KM without it being a missle ship or Cramming E-war webs and scrams?
mega, navy mega, vindi, kronos, pest, fleet pest, vargur, hyperion, domi, sin, barghast, navy domi.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2145
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 11:13:49 -
[9] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Madlightning wrote:
what battle ship with turrets can Fend of frigs out to 15 KM without it being a missle ship or Cramming E-war webs and scrams?
mega, navy mega, vindi, kronos, pest, fleet pest, vargur, hyperion, domi, sin, barghast, navy domi.
missed the panther and typhoon
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1887
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 11:13:54 -
[10] - Quote
Baltec got it right. The problem isn't BS, it's T3. Those are silly in the extreme and really need to be rebalanced hard, knocked down a few pegs turning them into "versatile but not dominant" ships. Once that happens BS will work fine. |
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17071
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 11:28:23 -
[11] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:baltec1 wrote:Madlightning wrote:
what battle ship with turrets can Fend of frigs out to 15 KM without it being a missle ship or Cramming E-war webs and scrams?
mega, navy mega, vindi, kronos, pest, fleet pest, vargur, hyperion, domi, sin, barghast, navy domi. missed the panther and typhoon, id rather undock my mach, rattler or vindi than a t3 tbh
Ah forgot the panther and mach.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7008
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 12:50:44 -
[12] - Quote
Came on here to say what Baltec said. Realised any contribution I might have made is entirely redundant. Decided instead to comment on the randomly capitalised words in the OP's post. Seriously, capital letters are reserved for starting sentences, and proper nouns, like Brisbane or Earth, unless you're talking about dirt, then it's just earth.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1889
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 12:52:42 -
[13] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Came on here to say what Baltec said. Realised any contribution I might have made is entirely redundant. Decided instead to comment on the randomly capitalised words in the OP's post. Seriously, capital letters are reserved for starting sentences, and proper nouns, like Brisbane or Earth, unless you're talking about dirt, then it's just earth.
He's SMA, they're on a different level. You're expecting too much. |

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7008
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 12:54:25 -
[14] - Quote
Madlightning wrote:baltec1 wrote:I can get my battleships to do all of the above.
The biggest problem battleships have is the fact that t3 cruisers get the same EHP while sporting a sig a fraction of the size, Greater speed and cap stability. i hear you there. T3 Ships come at a Risk though. T3 ship without a doubt are Better in most way then battle ships but Not everyone can Freely Risk/Lose a T3 ship when ever. what battle ship with turrets can Fend of frigs out to 15 KM without it being a missle ship or Cramming E-war webs and scrams? Most peopel can Grab a Vendicator double webs micro warp and a scramm and Punch Most people face in without trying. thats it If you are in a Ship that does not get any DPS Perks to it. or tracking your like at a loss,  Edit: Most of what i said is also Far fetched but when i Think battle ship i see a ship as far as sub cap goes, "i am a Battleship I can fight you Frigs and Destroyers bewere you solo can not fight me." but thats not the case Frigs can in alot of case 2-3 frigs can in fact Fight battleships again depending what that battle ships. but yes Alittle Love to some of the battleships
Man, I've blapped frigs with battleships, and vice versa, enough times to know it can be done. But at the end of the day, battleships aren't designed to blap frigs (generally speaking). Despite the fact that a good pilot with a smart fit CAN blap frigates, each size class of ship in the game is designed for fighting the same size. One frigate vs one battleship, more often than not the battleship won't have the tracking to hit the frig, and the frig won't have the tracking to hit the battleship. That's where support comes in, and the bigger the ship, the more support you're meant to have.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
9837
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 13:17:15 -
[15] - Quote
I LOVE CAPS, ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13178
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 13:48:02 -
[16] - Quote
I've seen this discussion before (battleships are hands down my favorite ship class) and I disagree with the conclusions the OP makes. Battleships are tricky to balance IMO because with as much EHP and other factors (like Range and DPS) you can get with them and the large weapons they carry, a slight buff ends up bringing some serious unintended consequences.
In another discussion about the issue I related an experience i had in another game with a similar issue. To summarize: There is video after video after video on sites like youtube of people who actually know how to use battleships slaughtering whole fleets of smaller ships. If you buff battleships to something the 'average' battleship pilot would find acceptable, you end up creating these super unbalanced monsters for people who are already good at using battleships. The game would quickly become battleships online, and as much as i love my Typhoons and Hyperions, that would be a bad thing for the game.
Another thing people don't consider when talking about battleships are their history. The ONLY reason we have these overly complicated turret and missile mechanics is because of battleship weapons. You really really didn't want to see a battleship come on grid when there was no such thing as tracking or fall off and your BC or smaller sized ship was going to be insta'd. I'd prefer 7 old school AOE Titan DDs to the face rather than see BSs be too strong again lol. |

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6980
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 14:39:04 -
[17] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I've seen this discussion before (battleships are hands down my favorite ship class) and I disagree with the conclusions the OP makes. Battleships are tricky to balance IMO because with as much EHP and other factors (like Range and DPS) you can get with them and the large weapons they carry, a slight buff ends up bringing some serious unintended consequences. Back then you missed the same thing as you are here though. That what you are basing that on is the assumption that there is a super elite player always able to take that ship and destroy everything if it were buffed. With that as an assumption, nothing should ever be buffed.
Additionally, that super elite player will always exist. If they aren't in a battleship killing everything they are in whatever other ship is already powerful enough to kill everything. Hiding from the idea of buffing other ships because of them leave the exact same situation but with stagnant mechanics. Continuously shifting balance helps keep elite players on their toes as well as creating variety of play for everyone else.
The truth is that short of large scale battles, battleships see less use because ships that have been buffed or brought in at a greater level of power are used in their place. Strategic cruisers, T3 destroyers, HACS and AFs are heavily used because they are generally better and more flexible. Balancing battleships is a challenge to make sure they don't get too crazy when in massive blobs, but it certainly shouldn't be avoided because of fear of an elite player using it to do what they do anwyway.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
464
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 14:49:37 -
[18] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:baltec1 wrote:Madlightning wrote:
what battle ship with turrets can Fend of frigs out to 15 KM without it being a missle ship or Cramming E-war webs and scrams?
mega, navy mega, vindi, kronos, pest, fleet pest, vargur, hyperion, domi, sin, barghast, navy domi. missed the panther and typhoon, id rather undock my mach, rattler or vindi than a t3 tbh
Yea me too but that's due to pride, not common sense. |

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2152
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 14:51:43 -
[19] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Lan Wang wrote:baltec1 wrote:Madlightning wrote:
what battle ship with turrets can Fend of frigs out to 15 KM without it being a missle ship or Cramming E-war webs and scrams?
mega, navy mega, vindi, kronos, pest, fleet pest, vargur, hyperion, domi, sin, barghast, navy domi. missed the panther and typhoon, id rather undock my mach, rattler or vindi than a t3 tbh Yea me too but that's due to pride, not common sense.
i like the excitment when a fleet goes up saying "need blops" or "battleships needed", you just dont get that excitement from t3's or hacs anymore
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13180
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 15:10:37 -
[20] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I've seen this discussion before (battleships are hands down my favorite ship class) and I disagree with the conclusions the OP makes. Battleships are tricky to balance IMO because with as much EHP and other factors (like Range and DPS) you can get with them and the large weapons they carry, a slight buff ends up bringing some serious unintended consequences. Back then you missed the same thing as you are here though. That what you are basing that on is the assumption that there is a super elite player always able to take that ship and destroy everything if it were buffed. With that as an assumption, nothing should ever be buffed. Additionally, that super elite player will always exist. If they aren't in a battleship killing everything they are in whatever other ship is already powerful enough to kill everything. Hiding from the idea of buffing other ships because of them leave the exact same situation but with stagnant mechanics. Continuously shifting balance helps keep elite players on their toes as well as creating variety of play for everyone else. The truth is that short of large scale battles, battleships see less use because ships that have been buffed or brought in at a greater level of power are used in their place. Strategic cruisers, T3 destroyers, HACS and AFs are heavily used because they are generally better and more flexible. Balancing battleships is a challenge to make sure they don't get too crazy when in massive blobs, but it certainly shouldn't be avoided because of fear of an elite player using it to do what they do anwyway.
The elite player isn't the only concern, just an example of what happens when you buff something 'because it's not good enough'. The much more numerous "above average" battleship pilots will take any ship balanced for "average" pilots and wreck shop with them too. That's why ships like the Gila, Worm and Orthrus just got nerfed, average players (like me) couldn't kill small gangs with them, but people only slightly better could terrorize folks with them.
That kind of thinking from CCP (ie, the idea that you can take something that is pretty much ok and 'buff it a little to make it more attractive') has led to all manner of nonsense like skynet ('hey, lets let capital drone boats get bonuses form drone mods without considering the fact that they have extra features like remote fighter assign').
Battleships are pretty much fine right now don't see much use outside of certain things not because they aren't good enough (They are), but because they fall below the "I can use this to reek havoc even though I'm not very good" threshold most players need to consider a thing worthwhile. Lack of common use does not equal lack of balance or quality, it mostly means that video players suck and are risk averse.
A better idea is to balance the things people use as "battleship alternatives' that make Battleships look worse than they are, namely T3 cruisers and maybe ABCs.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13183
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 15:11:46 -
[21] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Kuronaga wrote:Lan Wang wrote:baltec1 wrote:Madlightning wrote:
what battle ship with turrets can Fend of frigs out to 15 KM without it being a missle ship or Cramming E-war webs and scrams?
mega, navy mega, vindi, kronos, pest, fleet pest, vargur, hyperion, domi, sin, barghast, navy domi. missed the panther and typhoon, id rather undock my mach, rattler or vindi than a t3 tbh Yea me too but that's due to pride, not common sense. i like the excitment when a fleet goes up saying "need blops" or "battleships needed", you just dont get that excitement from t3's or hacs anymore
I was in an honest to goodness Maelstrom fleet last night (can see it on zkill), fighting Feign Disorder Nightmares. I got on 4 NM kills and didn't die. Pretty much op success as far as I am concerned lol. |

Valkin Mordirc
1749
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 15:31:13 -
[22] - Quote
I used to think Battleships could use with some love, However I'd rather think they need a good tweaking.
Battleships are when they get to the fight, quite absurdly good barring a select few, The Scorpion, Even Armor fit, is outclassed by Recons and ECMgu's. The scorp obviously tanks better but the cruiser size just avoid dps and tackle far easier. And the Rokh due to the Naga being so much more cheaper is often left out. Although a triple XL-ASB blaster Rokh is incredibly trollish and fun to **** around with.
The thing that most people get annoyed in with battleships is the fact that they are (Battleships) very annoyingly slow and tedious to move around without compromising an integral part of its ability of a battleship. Like Tank, or DPS. Which isn't really a bad thing, the main problem is a T3 can match it's tank and close to it's applied DPS, and get around much faster, without the need to compromise the fitting in any way. Not to mention they also manage cap better, expect for the proteus who cap is very very weak. And a Plated proteus is about as agile as a plated battleship. However it still gets faster align times, faster warp speeds and small a sig radius.
Battleships are on the great ships to get into a fight with. It a long drawn out fight with tons of interactivity thrown in, with cap management, drone management and positioning that it really starting to shine, both in fleet and solo pvp. The only major issue is that T3's do it all, faster and with T2 resist profiles.
Nerf the T3C's to a balanced level and you'll probably see battleships coming out of the woodwork.
Though of course since it took forever just to get the defensive subsystem nerf to finally drop who knows how long until we see CCP actually finger it out, I **** really imagine it'll be soon.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4886
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 15:37:33 -
[23] - Quote
Attack Battlecruisers need to be hit with the whiffle bat in a serious way. Like dropping them to medium-sized weapons and bringing their damage in-line with Navy Battlecruisers. T3s are generally fine - they just need a few tweaks to the various subsystems.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
81
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 15:39:10 -
[24] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Player Features and Ideas.
ISD Max Trix
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6980
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 15:47:44 -
[25] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The elite player isn't the only concern, just an example of what happens when you buff something 'because it's not good enough'. The much more numerous "above average" battleship pilots will take any ship balanced for "average" pilots and wreck shop with them too. That's why ships like the Gila, Worm and Orthrus just got nerfed, average players (like me) couldn't kill small gangs with them, but people only slightly better could terrorize folks with them.
That kind of thinking from CCP (ie, the idea that you can take something that is pretty much ok and 'buff it a little to make it more attractive') has led to all manner of nonsense like skynet ('hey, lets let capital drone boats get bonuses form drone mods without considering the fact that they have extra features like remote fighter assign'). That could be said for literally any ship though, meaning that in your opinion no ship should ever be buffed, because someone might use it to destroy loads of people, even though being an elite player they already do just in whatever ships are at the top at the time, hence them being elite.
Jenn aSide wrote:Battleships are pretty much fine right now don't see much use outside of certain things not because they aren't good enough (They are), but because they fall below the "I can use this to reek havoc even though I'm not very good" threshold most players need to consider a thing worthwhile. Lack of common use does not equal lack of balance or quality, it mostly means that video players suck and are risk averse. They don't see use because they are slow moving space coffins, and since bridging them is much less of a thing, the idea of slowboating battleships around is enough to put most people off bothering. So the meta is built around ships that are as or more capable of fleet combat but move significantly faster.
It's not risk aversion, it's risk mitigation and basic common sense. I don't fly freighters into battle either, is that risk aversion?
Jenn aSide wrote:A better idea is to balance the things people use as "battleship alternatives' that make Battleships look worse than they are, namely T3 cruisers and maybe ABCs. Nerfing better ships has the same effect as buffing battleships.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13183
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 16:00:51 -
[26] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Nerfing better ships has the same effect as buffing battleships.
No it does not. Buffing things invites a different set of unintended consequences (skynet is the example here too). Those unintended consequences can be collectively called "power creep".
I used to ridicule the 'nerf culture' of CCP, but now I understand it, the potential unintended consequences of nerfing (such as under use of a ship or item that previously saw a lot of use, like Ishtars)), while imperfect, is more acceptable than the potential unintended consequences of buffing things (such as the buffed thing eclipsing the thing it was just supposed to 'just' compete with, thus becoming something that needs to then be nerfed, wasting developer time and company money that could have been used doing cool things).
EVE is choked full of history of buffs gone wrong, and not just with ships and modules (buffing rewards to Faction Warfare post 2011 is a good example), while nerfs have been less problematic, even though nerfs are less enjoyable playerwise (I miss my Gila low slot...).
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1697
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 16:09:28 -
[27] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:baltec1 wrote:Madlightning wrote:
what battle ship with turrets can Fend of frigs out to 15 KM without it being a missle ship or Cramming E-war webs and scrams?
mega, navy mega, vindi, kronos, pest, fleet pest, vargur, hyperion, domi, sin, barghast, navy domi. missed the panther and typhoon, id rather undock my mach, rattler or vindi than a t3 tbh Ah forgot the panther and mach.
As much as I hate to add a ruined BS hull, only a frig pilot idiot would go after a geddon. |

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1698
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 16:24:46 -
[28] - Quote
I just spent the whole past weekend flying machs and rattlers. My corpies flew everything from tempests to ravens.
WE HAD A BLAST!!!!!
Flying straight away from a BS in a frigate/destroyer is currently a standard practice. If you don't know what that means - you aren't ready to fly a BS anyway.
BS are currently awesome bait boats. The inescapable call of the ratting raven has spilled over into most BS hulls. I will recommend that in lieu of complaining about how bad BS are, get in one and go get your pvp on. Most of the pvp drones out there have no idea how to deal with them. A solo BS, sure gank away, but put 4 of them on the field together and add 2 or 3 support ships and some really nice things will happen.
You need to come to terms with BS not being the main blob ship of choice anymore. There are just better options. The 'no BS' fleets are a combination of 2 things. 1. They warp across eve at BS speed, which is too slow for most folks. 2. Everyone and their brother can fly dreads/carriers, which are alpha proof 362 days of the year.
With the current size of alliances any reasonable FC will pick speed (BC and below) or alpha resistance (caps). BS not having super speed or alpha resistance doesn't make them bad. It makes them a bad choice for large fleet fights. For med to small gang they are the cat's meow. Solo - we've all seen those vids.
You guys are wanting BS to be something they are not instead of enjoying the awesomeness that actually are. |

Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6980
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 16:31:14 -
[29] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:No it does not. Buffing things invites a different set of unintended consequences (skynet is the example here too). Those unintended consequences can be collectively called "power creep". The result is the same, that the balance of the game shifts resulting in a new FOTM and the requirement to continue balancing. The only difference is that nerfing generally annoys players more than buffing. Power creep is for the most part separate and would involve keeping content at the right level when ship mechanics change. Skynet was more the result of an oversight during mecahnics changes which happens regardless of whether it's a buff or a nerf. Things like the pricing changes when changing build costs resulting in bounty exploits are another example of that.
The problem with seeking nerfs is that it puts people off doing something rather than encouraging them to do something and still results in one ship being better than another. IMHO it's always better to keep people chasing positive changes than running away from nerfs.
Jenn aSide wrote:EVE is choked full of history of buffs gone wrong, and not just with ships and modules (buffing rewards to Faction Warfare post 2011 is a good example), while nerfs have been less problematic, even though nerfs are less enjoyable playerwise (I miss my Gila low slot...).
EVE is full of history of changes gone wrong. The direction of the change is irrelevant to that.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2154
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Posted - 2015.12.21 16:35:56 -
[30] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I just spent the whole past weekend flying machs and rattlers. My corpies flew everything from tempests to ravens.
WE HAD A BLAST!!!!!
Flying straight away from a BS in a frigate/destroyer is currently a standard practice. If you don't know what that means - you aren't ready to fly a BS anyway.
BS are currently awesome bait boats. The inescapable call of the ratting raven has spilled over into most BS hulls. I will recommend that in lieu of complaining about how bad BS are, get in one and go get your pvp on. Most of the pvp drones out there have no idea how to deal with them. A solo BS, sure gank away, but put 4 of them on the field together and add 2 or 3 support ships and some really nice things will happen.
You need to come to terms with BS not being the main blob ship of choice anymore. There are just better options. The 'no BS' fleets are a combination of 2 things. 1. They warp across eve at BS speed, which is too slow for most folks. 2. Everyone and their brother can fly dreads/carriers, which are alpha proof 362 days of the year.
With the current size of alliances any reasonable FC will pick speed (BC and below) or alpha resistance (caps). BS not having super speed or alpha resistance doesn't make them bad. It makes them a bad choice for large fleet fights. For med to small gang they are the cat's meow. Solo - we've all seen those vids.
You guys are wanting BS to be something they are not instead of enjoying the awesomeness that actually are.
Most fun i had in a fleet was in curse, we dropped 5 rattlers and a carrier onto a test ratting raven, before we knew it we were blobbed by around 90 test kitchen sink frigs, cruisers, recons, bombers, it was funny the fc said "free fire", the rattlers tore through the frigates like they were nothing, shame they had to bring in the dreads to kill the carrier or we would have tore the whole fleet apart.
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Bobman Smith
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
0
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Posted - 2015.12.21 22:13:56 -
[31] - Quote
We need to stop thinking about balancing ships vs other ships solely on nurfing or tweaking their stats. I will agreed that the BS line up needs more appeal/use then its seeing today. Training into BS is kinda a waste when you can train into carriers and dreads that will do what BS's do but better. But with that said, there is nothing wrong with the current ships. Sure some could use a tweak here and there but that's trivial to the big picture that is Eve. Balancing Eve should be model of Risk vs Rewards and that is the root of the balancing issues in Eve lay. Pirate Faction ships allowed in Novice Plex, come on! 60M Hull priced for T3 Dessie, then you can insure them so they net out being lower risk then T2, and coming close to T1... *face smack*. Why would anyone not fly T3's? But there power needs to be in game to counter larger fleets/alliances when it comes down to it.
Below is a proposal to add value to the BS line up by adding another ship, and the tweaks to balance T3 so that they remain powerful and balanced vs our wallets instead of other ships.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6228412#post6228412
T3 Destroyers should cost aprox 160M. Change 50% to 25% weapons damage bonus.
Remove Insurance from game. Undocking should be risky with no paybacks!
Ban Frigate Pirate Ships from Novice FW Plexs.
Have more then 1 Clone in a station without loss.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
971
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 22:27:46 -
[32] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lan Wang wrote:baltec1 wrote:Madlightning wrote:
what battle ship with turrets can Fend of frigs out to 15 KM without it being a missle ship or Cramming E-war webs and scrams?
mega, navy mega, vindi, kronos, pest, fleet pest, vargur, hyperion, domi, sin, barghast, navy domi. missed the panther and typhoon, id rather undock my mach, rattler or vindi than a t3 tbh Ah forgot the panther and mach.
and my Nightmare? or a Rokh?
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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big miker
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
407
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Posted - 2015.12.21 22:48:48 -
[33] - Quote
In my opinion:
Slightly increase warp speed
Slightly increase scan resolution
increase all battleship lock range over 100km with Max skills
Other than that, like others have said t3 cruisers are too good. Removal / change of the HP bonus subsystem is a great start. T2 resists coupled with HP bonus is insanely powerful.
Latest video: Ferocious 7.0 Kiting Nightmare / Vindicator / Apocalypse Navy Issue
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
498
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Posted - 2015.12.21 23:00:08 -
[34] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote: Battleships got replaced by caps.
all battleships
ALL CAPS
.... you're right. It's not the same anymore.
PCU discussion Marsha's post,
SP discussion Sibyyl's post
opinions = onions*pi
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Daerrol
Death By Design Did he say Jump
281
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Posted - 2015.12.22 19:16:01 -
[35] - Quote
The more I get into smaller scale PVP, the more I aprciate how OP lock range is. |

elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
976
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Posted - 2015.12.22 20:08:02 -
[36] - Quote
big miker wrote:In my opinion: Slightly increase warp speed  Slightly increase scan resolution  increase all battleship lock range over 100km with Max skills Other than that, like others have said t3 cruisers are too good. Removal / change of the HP bonus subsystem is a great start. T2 resists coupled with HP bonus is insanely powerful.
Exactly what I was saying. That is all they need.
And OP, the guns you are looking for are called medium and small turrets.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Valacus
Streets of Fire
96
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Posted - 2015.12.22 20:27:41 -
[37] - Quote
CCP has been blatantly and deliberately ignoring battleships for more than a year now.
"Hmmm, what can we do to make the game better?" "More fast, small, kitey ****?" "Genius, let's do it. Call them T3Ds." "What about next patch? What can we do to make the game better?" "More fast, small, kitey ****?" "Genius, let's do it. Call them logi frigates and command destroyers."
Capitals and Citadels will have their day. Better start training for dreads and carriers. They'll be exponentially more useful than battleships. |

Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
2122
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Posted - 2015.12.22 20:56:36 -
[38] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I can get my battleships to do all of the above.
The biggest problem battleships have is the fact that t3 cruisers get the same EHP while sporting a sig a fraction of the size, Greater speed and cap stability.
The problem with one ship is never due to another ship. This is a battleship problem and changing other ships to try and fix the problem will only result in more problems.
Battleships are too weak and it makes no sense! We need more BS only mods to get past some of the weaknesses... Or they should all be able to use the bastion module to make then unique from other classes
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2078
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Posted - 2015.12.22 21:37:45 -
[39] - Quote
I watched a small blue roaming gang go past me into Geminate today, with two Typhoons, a Typhoon Fleet Issue, and a Sabre. I wished them good luck and thought to myself that they were likely to get Russian capital ships dropped on them, but I think that was their desire.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Nienna Leralonde
Viper-Squad WE FORM V0LTA
1
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Posted - 2015.12.22 21:44:10 -
[40] - Quote
battleship pvp is dead.
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Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
247
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Posted - 2015.12.22 22:34:58 -
[41] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I can get my battleships to do all of the above.
The biggest problem battleships have is the fact that t3 cruisers get the same EHP while sporting a sig a fraction of the size, Greater speed and cap stability.
Well, you get what you pay for..
I can has blogging skills!
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2817
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Posted - 2015.12.22 22:45:30 -
[42] - Quote
Give battleships +25% HP across the board, then introduce 3200mm armor plates and XL shield extenders for battleships. Problem solved. Next.
Linna Excel wrote:Well, you get what you pay for.. So if I pay for two battleships, I get a battleship that moves like a cruiser?
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Faelune
Tous Pour Un
14
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Posted - 2015.12.22 22:52:13 -
[43] - Quote
One way is open. Honestly I think BS actually must be what destroyer are to Fregate; A Super Battlecruiser obviously. With something new never see onany shipclass. A new rack for high slot under the current high for Large. a rack of high slot only dedicated for Light or medium weaponry. Bs could be fitted with Full Large or a mix with Med and Small or Large and Small.
Think it a little
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elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
980
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:47:55 -
[44] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Give battleships +25% HP across the board, then introduce 3200mm armor plates and XL shield extenders for battleships. Problem solved. Next. Linna Excel wrote:Well, you get what you pay for.. So if I pay for two battleships, I get a battleship that moves like a cruiser?
No, this will be so hilariously broken.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17088
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Posted - 2015.12.23 11:20:51 -
[45] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:baltec1 wrote:I can get my battleships to do all of the above.
The biggest problem battleships have is the fact that t3 cruisers get the same EHP while sporting a sig a fraction of the size, Greater speed and cap stability. The problem with one ship is never due to another ship. This is a battleship problem and changing other ships to try and fix the problem will only result in more problems. Battleships are too weak and it makes no sense! We need more BS only mods to get past some of the weaknesses... Or they should all be able to use the bastion module to make then unique from other classes
This is as blatantly untrue today as it was when the game fired up.
T3 cruisers either step on the toes or outright invalidate more than 50 other ships. Command ships for example are another class that many think are underpowered but in reality they are perfectly fine, they are simply outclassed by t3 boosters. T3D are another problem ship that have ruined the frigate balance because they are far too powerful.
I'd rather nerf 4 ships than buff over 50 that would inevitably cause even more balance issues.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17088
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Posted - 2015.12.23 11:22:36 -
[46] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
As much as I hate to add a ruined BS hull, only a frig pilot idiot would go after a geddon.
I love the new geddon, so much fun to fly and fit.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
827
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Posted - 2015.12.23 15:14:58 -
[47] - Quote
I like flying my barghest with RHML.
Some dudes zerg rushed me with a bunch of frigs the other day and I littered the space with their ship wrecks.
I agree battleships need a bit of a buff but I don't think we will see many big battleship fleets besides a few strat ops where you just bring the biggest thing you can.
Pls leave my machariel alone, thank you.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Valacus
Streets of Fire
102
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Posted - 2015.12.23 21:34:03 -
[48] - Quote
Linna Excel wrote:baltec1 wrote:I can get my battleships to do all of the above.
The biggest problem battleships have is the fact that t3 cruisers get the same EHP while sporting a sig a fraction of the size, Greater speed and cap stability. Well, you get what you pay for..
You can't even pay to make a battleship do what a T3 can do, so that argument is crap. |

Romana Erebus
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
50
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Posted - 2015.12.24 00:32:52 -
[49] - Quote
Add more T2 battleship class ships. Maybe a T3 battleship Also....it's okay to add skill intense ships to the game. everything does not have to be a frigate or destroyer. |

elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
988
|
Posted - 2015.12.24 02:54:11 -
[50] - Quote
Faelune wrote:One way is open. Honestly I think BS actually must be what destroyer are to Fregate; A Super Battlecruiser obviously. With something new never see onany shipclass. A new rack for high slot under the current high for Large. a rack of high slot only dedicated for Light or medium weaponry. Bs could be fitted with Full Large or a mix with Med and Small or Large and Small.
Think it a little
No silly, you think a little. There is no law in EVE that makes you fit any ship according to what you have been told.
But here we have it, yet another victim to the oversaturation of ships we have. Back in the day when then were less ships in EVE we actually had to think outside the box and have them perfom any task we wanted them to.
Now the newer folks ask for ships that help them go to sleep at night and read them a story. Sometime less is so much more.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
829
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Posted - 2015.12.24 03:30:36 -
[51] - Quote
A t2 battleship that is focused on heavy damage output would be very nice.
Doesn't need to have massive tank like everything t2.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1715
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Posted - 2015.12.24 14:23:14 -
[52] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Give battleships +25% HP across the board, then introduce 3200mm armor plates and XL shield extenders for battleships. Problem solved. Next. Linna Excel wrote:Well, you get what you pay for.. So if I pay for two battleships, I get a battleship that moves like a cruiser?
No you ninny - you get 2 battleships. I now understand the reasoning behind many of your conclusions and opinions on this forum. It all makes sense now! |

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1715
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Posted - 2015.12.24 14:33:47 -
[53] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:
As much as I hate to add a ruined BS hull, only a frig pilot idiot would go after a geddon.
I love the new geddon, so much fun to fly and fit. elitatwo wrote:[quote=baltec1]  and my Nightmare? or a Rokh? Nightmare is a great ship, rokh I wouldn't use vs frigates as such it more of a long range anti-cruiser type ship best used in a gang(longer range blaster boat is always nice).
I love the old geddon. It was a giant space penis that spewed fire and death across the battlefield. Now it lands and puffs out a few drones - visually, that makes no sense. They replaced a raging teenager of doom w/ a sputtering old man ship. Graphically it should kind of sag down at the front end at this point - more bananna shaped never being straight and stucturally sound again.
The current geddon would have been excellent if intorduced as a blood raider faction BS. They could have called it a Bhaalgorn or something to that effect. The apoc would have been a better choice to ruin. It doesn't have the classic penis outline and the t1 sniping laser BS will never be a thing again (napoc will always be a better choice).
The Fozzinator did a bad thing and should be punished. |
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