EVE Search - EVE's learning curve

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

EVE's learning curve

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Liona Maane	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:45:00 - [1] Why is the learning curve for EVE so steep - the tutorial is sooooo long and I never thought that I would get to play... the tutorials just keept on going!? I wonder why CCP dosnet make it easier to get in to the game?
Raste Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:48:00 - [2] Originally by: Liona Maane Why is the learning curve for EVE so steep - the tutorial is sooooo long and I never thought that I would get to play... the tutorials just keept on going!? I wonder why CCP dosnet make it easier to get in to the game? Harder to get into but holds you longer. Theres a certain tension between immediate accessibility and complexity, CCP probably steers more towards complexity than any mass-market game could fathom. Its a good thing. ===This is a sig=== "no matter where you are or what you're doing, you know that down in the southeast, LV and RA are trying to stab each other in the face." -- Cadiz ==============

Deckard Bishop Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:53:00 - [3] the best things come to those who wait! forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website!

Dame Schaifa	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:56:00 - [4] Edited by: Dame Schaifa on 17/01/2007 20:53:29 EVE is not a game to be mastered in an afternoon, a week, a month, or even in several months. But then, it IS a game where you are constantly discovering new things, how to do something better, faster, whatever. It is a game that will make you think about what you want to do, and then devise a plan to do it. EVE is a gmae that lets you play your way, not the way the developer says you must play. Sure, there is a lot to learn and it will take time to learn it. But with the effort you put into EVE, there is great reward as well. edit: spelling
Liona Maane	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:56:00 - [5] Originally by: Raste Harder to get into but holds you longer. Theres a certain tension between immediate accessibility and complexity, CCP probably steers more towards complexity than any mass-market game could fathom. Its a good thing. But what could happen (of bad things) if it was easier to get in to the game? Why not have a game that is easier to learn (than EVE is now) and then also would hold you for long?
Dame Schaifa	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Liona Maane Originally by: Raste Harder to get into but holds you longer. Theres a certain tension between immediate accessibility and complexity, CCP probably steers more towards complexity than any mass-market game could fathom. Its a good thing. But what could happen (of bad things) if it was easier to get in to the game? Why not have a game that is easier to learn (than EVE is now) and then also would hold you for long? Not sure, but maybe the reason is that there are already lots of games like that. EVE just isn't one of them.
Liona Maane	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Dame Schaifa Originally by: Liona Maane Originally by: Raste Harder to get into but holds you longer. Theres a certain tension between immediate accessibility and complexity, CCP probably steers more towards complexity than any mass-market game could fathom. Its a good thing. But what could happen (of bad things) if it was easier to get in to the game? Why not have a game that is easier to learn (than EVE is now) and then also would hold you for long? Not sure, but maybe the reason is that there are already lots of games like that. EVE just isn't one of them. So EVE is a game for people with a lot of time and patience? I just find it a bid sad because EVE seems (havent played so long) like such a nice and beautiful game but I know some people that just never get in to it, just scratching the surface because it took to long to in to it? But maybe it is just the point, that the people who gets there is the ones that belongs there!? Wonder if it is intended by the developers?
Dame Schaifa	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:18:00 - [8] In EVE, patience is a definite benefit to the player, but time in large amounts is not needed. For example, I am never able to devote more than 2 hours per day to games, and often I am limited to 1 hour, but I am enjoying my time in EVE just fine. And yes, I feel certain that the developers knew just what they were doing when they created EVE.
Synapse Archae Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:18:00 - [9] In my opinion part of what makes eve awsome is the absence of those immature, impatient "d3wds" who infest so many other MMOs in the extreme. I think the learning curve of eve has a lot to do with keeping them out, and I'm quite happy about that. It' O.K. to make a game that isn't for everyone. I've heard the devs say that eve isnt for everyone and I hope they stick with that mentality. - - - These elite slaves are exceptionally well suited for physical labor.
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:26:00 - [10] The learning curve can indeed be steep. I'd love to say what has already been replied many times, it seems, but I'll attempt to assist you with your learning curve with a few pieces of advice: 1. Join the channel: "Eve University" A channel dedicated to assisting new players, run by a non profit corp known as "Eve University" 2. Join the channel: "Help" Not as useful as the above channel, but you can OCCASIONALLY get answers from a few key people in there. 3. Use your NPC Corp Channel The initial corporation you're in does have some veterans who are more than happy to answer your questions. 4. Use the "New Citizens Q&A" Forum on Eve-Online.com Another useful resource
Liona Maane	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Synapse Archae In my opinion part of what makes eve awsome is the absence of those immature, impatient "d3wds" who infest so many other MMOs in the extreme. I think the learning curve of eve has a lot to do with keeping them out, and I'm quite happy about that. It' O.K. to make a game that isn't for everyone. I've heard the devs say that eve isnt for everyone and I hope they stick with that mentality. I agree that it is good to make a game that isn't for everyone! It is nice that there is a difference! I just wonder what would happen if the dev decided to change the tutorials and make it easier. I dont necessarily think it would mean that there would be a lot of "d3wds"(dont know what it is but it sounds not nice ;) Dont the game in itself hold a special gameplay that sort the players?
Captain Stormer	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:33:00 - [12] I have been playing eve for 1 and half years over 2 chars (stupid trial account alt :P ), sometimes I still feel im on the tutorial :)
Liona Maane	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:11:00 - [13] Well, EVE is at the moment a game that isnt for everyone. But what will happen if the dev decides to make the learing curve less steep? I read somewere that CCP play to get a lot more players, maybe not right now, but in the future. Changing the tutorial and makeing the game easier to acces could definitly be a way to get more players...
Tkdzzix Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Liona Maane Why is the learning curve for EVE so steep - the tutorial is sooooo long and I never thought that I would get to play... the tutorials just keept on going!? I wonder why CCP dosnet make it easier to get in to the game? I am sorry, but the tutorial is really not that long!? And don't look me up and say 'but you are over a year old, what do you remember of the tutorial'... When kali popped out, I made a new character and went through the whole tutorial to see what has changed (not a whole lot tbh). I did this in one evening with no problems.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:20:00 - [15] If you feel like you've mastered EVE I dare say you may have to re-train Social Life lvl1. Ourselves Alone
Liona Maane	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:22:00 - [16] Originally by: Tkdzzix Originally by: Liona Maane Why is the learning curve for EVE so steep - the tutorial is sooooo long and I never thought that I would get to play... the tutorials just keept on going!? I wonder why CCP dosnet make it easier to get in to the game? I am sorry, but the tutorial is really not that long!? And don't look me up and say 'but you are over a year old, what do you remember of the tutorial'... When kali popped out, I made a new character and went through the whole tutorial to see what has changed (not a whole lot tbh). I did this in one evening with no problems. Well, I just wanted to get started faster (get out an fly) so I just found it strange that the tutorials were so long (well, I think a whole evening on a tutorial is long ;) And even after the tutorial I couldent remember 1/10 of what it was telling me... therefore it was kind of useless... And I would much rather prefer to get the info while playing. But maybe thats just me? And Im also not a very experienced online player.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:25:00 - [17] Just do as I did, quit the tutorial and ask around whenever you need to know something. Get into a good corporation that takes care of the new meat. Ourselves Alone
Kharakan Amarr Morticus Impendium	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:26:00 - [18] Eve learning curve is more of a fairly steep cliff. But there's a sofa over the top. this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:29:00 - [19] Steep? I thought it was pretty simple compared to AO.
Liona Maane	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:35:00 - [20] So the way forward is in the help chats and the corporations! - but newbies (like me ;) dosnt know this - before its to late... Maybe they (CCP) should skip the turorials competley and make it a total player controlled thing!?
Liona Maane	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Malicia Skirj Steep? I thought it was pretty simple compared to AO. I havent tried AO, is it really worse than EVE? Have to try it then, maybe then afterwards I¦ll think EVE is a walk in the spacepark?
Alexi Borizkova Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Liona Maane So the way forward is in the help chats and the corporations! - but newbies (like me ;) dosnt know this - before its to late... Maybe they (CCP) should skip the turorials competley and make it a total player controlled thing!? It takes more than a few man hours to teach the game to a new player. I know this, because I have spent a lot of my time doing it. Fact is, that a new player that has done the tutorial saves about two hours of my time. I might still have to spend two hours with them, but that's certainly better for me than four. It might take three or four hours to run through the tutorial for the new player, but you're using your own time to do so. Really, without the tutorial we have an undue stress on the teachers and friendly people of eve, and if they make the game simpler to need less teaching, we all lose out on a complex conceptually challenging game. Really, this is the best the balance gets. And as someone who runs a new character through the tutorial every time they change it majorly, trust me: it is SO much better for you as a starting player now than it used to be, and that's no lie at all.
Liona Maane	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Alexi Borizkova Originally by: Liona Maane So the way forward is in the help chats and the corporations! - but newbies (like me ;) dosnt know this - before its to late... Maybe they (CCP) should skip the turorials competley and make it a total player controlled thing!? It takes more than a few man hours to teach the game to a new player. I know this, because I have spent a lot of my time doing it. Fact is, that a new player that has done the tutorial saves about two hours of my time. I might still have to spend two hours with them, but that's certainly better for me than four. It might take three or four hours to run through the tutorial for the new player, but you're using your own time to do so. Really, without the tutorial we have an undue stress on the teachers and friendly people of eve, and if they make the game simpler to need less teaching, we all lose out on a complex conceptually challenging game. Really, this is the best the balance gets. And as someone who runs a new character through the tutorial every time they change it majorly, trust me: it is SO much better for you as a starting player now than it used to be, and that's no lie at all. Yes, Im sure it is better to do the tutorial, you of cause learn something. But I still think they then could improve the tutorials; both for the sake of letting of the more experinced players when they are teaching afterwards, and also in getting more players in to EVE...
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Liona Maane Originally by: Malicia Skirj Steep? I thought it was pretty simple compared to AO. I havent tried AO, is it really worse than EVE? Have to try it then, maybe then afterwards I¦ll think EVE is a walk in the spacepark? It's amazingly complex if you really want to master it. There are about 12 professions..and not only do you have to know your own very well (and anyone that says most professions just hit Q (attack button) and go AFK don't know their professions very well), you also have to know others. For example...you wanna be a doc...grand. You know you have to heal. You need nanobots to heal. They run out fast. When you're out, your team dies if they're not lucky enough to escape. Solutions? Have the keeper run a nanobot replenishing auro, get PNH and IOR from a nanotechnician, max psychic and train perks related to nanobot boosting. That's a very basic example. On top of that you'll want to know what nanoformulas offer the best protection...who can calm mobs, who can root them, who can charm them, who can boost your [insert skill] skill, etc. To do well you practically have to memorize everything about every character. The only reason I left is because they massively screwed nanotechnicians over (my main there was a level 206 NT) by capping range and giving nearly every other profession a way to break out of a root. Those were pretty much their only advantage since they die so easily... Imagine a ship in Eve with 600 shields/armor/structure...with no capability of using extenders or shield boosters, etc......but able to nail another ship for 1K a pop at 500KM from the start, with another ship tackling. Now imagine that same ship with range limited to everyone's max range (let's say it's capped at 100KM for the hell of it), and when they're ganged with another ship IT isn't allowed to tackle, either. But it still only has 600 points and no ability to 'heal'. So yes...stupidly complex...wacky good fun...AND it's set in the future..nearly 50,000 years. But the one profession I wanted most of all was messed up about 3 years into it. And now I'm here. :)
Alexi Borizkova Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:14:00 - [25] Well, this IS the improvement... but you are right, there is always room for more. What specifically would you change? And don't cop out and say "make it quicker and easier" as a new player that went through it all, I think you could make more than a few specific suggestions.
Malcanis	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:29:00 - [26] Originally by: Liona Maane Why is the learning curve for EVE so steep - the tutorial is sooooo long and I never thought that I would get to play... the tutorials just keept on going!? I wonder why CCP dosnet make it easier to get in to the game? There ain't no law says you have to finish the tutorial. I think I jacked it in about step 10 or so. Get in a frigate, add belts to your overview and begin the pewpew. You'll learn the rest as you go along. One way or another...
Liona Maane	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:30:00 - [27] Originally by: Alexi Borizkova Well, this IS the improvement... but you are right, there is always room for more. What specifically would you change? And don't cop out and say "make it quicker and easier" as a new player that went through it all, I think you could make more than a few specific suggestions. Hehe got me there ;) No I dont think it have to be quicker and easier. It just that I wanted to get to "play a little" sooner. So that there might be some missions earlier in the tutorial were you would get to try the new thing that you were just told, then I might have rembered them better? I think there are to many informaions in one big pile. And maybe also some more explanatios to why you have to choose the differnet skills etc When you dont know the game you dont know what differens your chooises make. So maybe you couls choose this later instead? This was just a som examles, but I dont know if it would ruin the game expirence and I know that there is a lot of saying that it is good that the learing curve is so steep, because it sort out the imature players - I dont necesserly agree. I think the game spirit/core of the game in itself will sort out the players.
Malcanis	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:31:00 - [28] Originally by: Liona Maane Originally by: Dame Schaifa Originally by: Liona Maane Originally by: Raste Harder to get into but holds you longer. Theres a certain tension between immediate accessibility and complexity, CCP probably steers more towards complexity than any mass-market game could fathom. Its a good thing. But what could happen (of bad things) if it was easier to get in to the game? Why not have a game that is easier to learn (than EVE is now) and then also would hold you for long? Not sure, but maybe the reason is that there are already lots of games like that. EVE just isn't one of them. So EVE is a game for people with a lot of time and patience? I just find it a bid sad because EVE seems (havent played so long) like such a nice and beautiful game but I know some people that just never get in to it, just scratching the surface because it took to long to in to it? But maybe it is just the point, that the people who gets there is the ones that belongs there!? Wonder if it is intended by the developers? Welcome to EVE!
Liona Maane	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:42:00 - [29] Originally by: Malicia Skirj Originally by: Liona Maane Originally by: Malicia Skirj Steep? I thought it was pretty simple compared to AO. I havent tried AO, is it really worse than EVE? Have to try it then, maybe then afterwards I¦ll think EVE is a walk in the spacepark? It's amazingly complex if you really want to master it. There are about 12 professions..and not only do you have to know your own very well (and anyone that says most professions just hit Q (attack button) and go AFK don't know their professions very well), you also have to know others. For example...you wanna be a doc...grand. You know you have to heal. You need nanobots to heal. They run out fast. When you're out, your team dies if they're not lucky enough to escape. Solutions? Have the keeper run a nanobot replenishing auro, get PNH and IOR from a nanotechnician, max psychic and train perks related to nanobot boosting. That's a very basic example. On top of that you'll want to know what nanoformulas offer the best protection...who can calm mobs, who can root them, who can charm them, who can boost your [insert skill] skill, etc. To do well you practically have to memorize everything about every character. The only reason I left is because they massively screwed nanotechnicians over (my main there was a level 206 NT) by capping range and giving nearly every other profession a way to break out of a root. Those were pretty much their only advantage since they die so easily... Imagine a ship in Eve with 600 shields/armor/structure...with no capability of using extenders or shield boosters, etc......but able to nail another ship for 1K a pop at 500KM from the start, with another ship tackling. Now imagine that same ship with range limited to everyone's max range (let's say it's capped at 100KM for the hell of it), and when they're ganged with another ship IT isn't allowed to tackle, either. But it still only has 600 points and no ability to 'heal'. So yes...stupidly complex...wacky good fun...AND it's set in the future..nearly 50,000 years. But the one profession I wanted most of all was messed up about 3 years into it. And now I'm here. :) yes this really sound very compex! :) But was it fun because it was complex or was it other things - could it have been less complex? It seems fx that people dont think EVE could be less complex, they like it the way it is, hardcore ;) and I kind of agree, its nice and its a real challange with lots of possibilits for those who likes this type of game.
Seroquel	Posted - 2007.01.18 01:09:00 - [30] Edited by: Seroquel on 18/01/2007 01:08:49 Don't give the tutorial any ideas. The tutorial lady is already pretty annoying. "Hi, would you like to take the tutorial?" no "How about now? Take the tutorial." no go away Tutorial button starts flashing and that creepy marilyn manson looking lady pops out of the screen and eats you. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Soporo	Posted - 2007.01.18 02:56:00 - [31] They would be doing all new players a grave disservice by shortening the Tutorial. Hell, it barely covers things as it is. Yes it is long. It helps weed out those with the attention span of goldfish. The rest...it's a pain alright, but worth it.
Mazzarins Demise	Posted - 2007.01.18 04:29:00 - [32] Originally by: Malicia Skirj Originally by: Liona Maane Originally by: Malicia Skirj Steep? I thought it was pretty simple compared to AO. I havent tried AO, is it really worse than EVE? Have to try it then, maybe then afterwards I¦ll think EVE is a walk in the spacepark? It's amazingly complex if you really want to master it. There are about 12 professions..and not only do you have to know your own very well (and anyone that says most professions just hit Q (attack button) and go AFK don't know their professions very well), you also have to know others. For example...you wanna be a doc...grand. You know you have to heal. You need nanobots to heal. They run out fast. When you're out, your team dies if they're not lucky enough to escape. Solutions? Have the keeper run a nanobot replenishing auro, get PNH and IOR from a nanotechnician, max psychic and train perks related to nanobot boosting. That's a very basic example. On top of that you'll want to know what nanoformulas offer the best protection...who can calm mobs, who can root them, who can charm them, who can boost your [insert skill] skill, etc. To do well you practically have to memorize everything about every character. The only reason I left is because they massively screwed nanotechnicians over (my main there was a level 206 NT) by capping range and giving nearly every other profession a way to break out of a root. Those were pretty much their only advantage since they die so easily... Imagine a ship in Eve with 600 shields/armor/structure...with no capability of using extenders or shield boosters, etc......but able to nail another ship for 1K a pop at 500KM from the start, with another ship tackling. Now imagine that same ship with range limited to everyone's max range (let's say it's capped at 100KM for the hell of it), and when they're ganged with another ship IT isn't allowed to tackle, either. But it still only has 600 points and no ability to 'heal'. So yes...stupidly complex...wacky good fun...AND it's set in the future..nearly 50,000 years. But the one profession I wanted most of all was messed up about 3 years into it. And now I'm here. :) Shush and give me my Mochams!!!! Oh wait....I'm the Meta-Physicist!!!
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.18 04:39:00 - [33] the game is deep the tutorial covers a lot u could always go play a simple game like wow ofc
SonOTassadar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.01.18 05:33:00 - [34] Originally by: hotgirl933 the game is deep the tutorial covers a lot u could always go play a simple game like wow ofc We were hoping people like you would be deterred by the tutorial. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standar Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless
Cammulos Magnetar Ltd	Posted - 2007.01.18 06:16:00 - [35] The tutorial is a real must. When I made my first char back in November 04' I went maybe 5min or so into the game, got bored and decided to just go it alone. Used the map, looked for the absolute farthest point I could see on the map (North most point if the map is flat), locked onto it as my destination, and went there looking for some adventure.. Got there having been chased by a good 5 or 6 different corps (Little did I know we 0.0 types are very suspicious of 'nubs' flying around in deep 0.0 and only being a few hours old). Anyways, having got there and noticing my ships must be damaged as it was venting atmosphere, I then remembered that tutorial I decided to skip over. Deleted that char and started again.. Trust me, you don't want to skip the tutorial. If you do... its probably gonna be your ass.
Benglada Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 06:35:00 - [36] when i started there was no tutorial.... "heres a ship, heres a gun, GL!" --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos
gfldex Gallente Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.01.18 06:59:00 - [37] Originally by: Liona Maane Wonder if it is intended by the developers? They just make the game they want to play the most and made a lot friends that way.
AvatarADV	Posted - 2007.01.18 07:50:00 - [38] Eve is chock full of complicated stuff that you're not going to get right off the bat. There's just no getting around that. Doing the tutorial gives you, at the least, a basis for how to operate. You know how to move your ship, speed it up, slow it down, turn on the guns, how to mine something. You know what the important buttons on the left and right side of the docking menu do. You can buy stuff. You can find stuff that you bought. You know the difference between your ship's cargo and the station's items hangar. You can make a bookmark and go to it. You can go through a warp gate. You've been in your first deadspace. You can train a skill. The real help is that knowing all of these things makes answering other, more specific questions a lot easier. "How do I find this skill?" is difficult if you don't know where the market screen is. Basically, if someone asks something on the rookie help channel that's contained in the tutorial, I generally direct them back to the tutorial. There's so much in it that you really DO need to know, if not instantly, then at least soon. Rather than spend my time talking someone through it, the game will talk you through it automatically, and I can spend time talking to people who wanna know what ships they should be thinking about buying, how salvaging works, how corp standing works, yadda yadda. Come to think of it, there ought to be a newbie guide. There's several good resources in the forums, but most of them assume that the user has figured out what they should be doing. For example, the mining guide is great -if you know you want to mine-. Maybe I ought to write an intro guide - kind of a "these are the things there are to do in EVE, so if you're sitting outside the station with a stunned bunny look on your face, check it out and get organized mentally" thing.
Forando Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.01.18 09:22:00 - [39] Edited by: Forando on 18/01/2007 09:22:59 Edited by: Forando on 18/01/2007 09:19:35 Steep learning curve? Well, it all depends on the amount of time people are willing to put into it. If you have an hour, you'll be hard stressed to learn all there is to know. The skill system in EVE kinda hints that you'll have time on your side in this game - You can't really rush into EVE. It's a very technical and complex game, if you want it to be. But there is simply no reason to rush into it. Learn at your own pace. As for resources, the tutorial is long winding and covers a lot of ground, but worth it. If you're left with questions or need clarifications after that, simply ask - There should be around 15k-25k players online most of the time (It is a MMO after all!) There's even a 'Help' channel you can join, if 'local' and the corp channel isn't enough. Just make sure you have run through the tutorial before asking. It seems CCP has been paying a bit of attention to the 'Tutorial'-section of EVE lately though. There's new tutorials on more topics than when I started, so it could be they are looking into it already? But generally, all you will ever need to know about EVE can be learned from asking players or by peeking forums. I highly recommend new players to take a look at the following links: http://eve.grismar.net/ http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/ http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=437508 Enjoy, and fly safe!
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.18 09:41:00 - [40] Originally by: Liona Maane Why is the learning curve for EVE so steep - the tutorial is sooooo long and I never thought that I would get to play... the tutorials just keept on going!? I wonder why CCP dosnet make it easier to get in to the game? The tutorials teach you only the basics :), there is more yet for you to learn. There once was in a galaxy far far way another game that was somewhat complex to get into. It was open ended game based upon a major movie franchise. It had a richness and inderdependency between players that has yet to be seen again. The devs of that game listened to a few that said the game was to hard. They decided against the advice of their existing playerbase to simplify the game to get what they perceived where greener pastures on the other side of the fence. They rolled it out with 2 weeks notice to the vetarans. They didn't offer any refunds for time already paid though the changes were so drastic that a good many could not play the game anymore. Within 3 months they lost 75 % of their veterans. The veterans left where cold and jaded. They discouraged new people from staying. Today that game still is online but it has never recovered. Its population is low, especially low for one based on one of the most popular science fiction intellectual properties ever founded thus far. The easy path is not the most rewarding one. The best rewards are found on the paths least travelled. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Sol Halcon Minmatar The Exile Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.18 10:32:00 - [41] Originally by: Mecinia Lua Originally by: Liona Maane Why is the learning curve for EVE so steep - the tutorial is sooooo long and I never thought that I would get to play... the tutorials just keept on going!? I wonder why CCP dosnet make it easier to get in to the game? The tutorials teach you only the basics :), there is more yet for you to learn. There once was in a galaxy far far way another game that was somewhat complex to get into. It was open ended game based upon a major movie franchise. It had a richness and inderdependency between players that has yet to be seen again. The devs of that game listened to a few that said the game was to hard. They decided against the advice of their existing playerbase to simplify the game to get what they perceived where greener pastures on the other side of the fence. They rolled it out with 2 weeks notice to the vetarans. They didn't offer any refunds for time already paid though the changes were so drastic that a good many could not play the game anymore. Within 3 months they lost 75 % of their veterans. The veterans left where cold and jaded. They discouraged new people from staying. Today that game still is online but it has never recovered. Its population is low, especially low for one based on one of the most popular science fiction intellectual properties ever founded thus far. The easy path is not the most rewarding one. The best rewards are found on the paths least travelled. OOH you are soooo right. They turned our game into a 25 cent arcade shooter, and it's only gotten worse. Your post truely tugged at my heart strings. That is the past though and I, like many others moved on. You're also right about the tutorial being just the begining. When I finished it I said "What?? That's it?" I only had about a hundred more questions is all. All I would ever ask is that they don't "NGE" us in favor of the console kiddy crowd. Cheers!
Moses Mortensen Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.01.18 11:25:00 - [42] Originally by: Mecinia Lua The tutorials teach you only the basics :), there is more yet for you to learn. There once was in a galaxy far far way another game that was somewhat complex to get into. It was open ended game based upon a major movie franchise. It had a richness and inderdependency between players that has yet to be seen again. The devs of that game listened to a few that said the game was to hard. They decided against the advice of their existing playerbase to simplify the game to get what they perceived where greener pastures on the other side of the fence. They rolled it out with 2 weeks notice to the vetarans. They didn't offer any refunds for time already paid though the changes were so drastic that a good many could not play the game anymore. Within 3 months they lost 75 % of their veterans. The veterans left where cold and jaded. They discouraged new people from staying. Today that game still is online but it has never recovered. Its population is low, especially low for one based on one of the most popular science fiction intellectual properties ever founded thus far. The easy path is not the most rewarding one. The best rewards are found on the paths least travelled. Im curious, what game is it you are refering to?
Feng Schui Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.01.18 11:40:00 - [43] SWG i presume (star wars galaxies). when SOE (i beleive?) got ahold of the game, they neutered it.
Valan	Posted - 2007.01.18 11:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Benglada when i started there was no tutorial.... "heres a ship, heres a gun, GL!" lol I remember undocking after spending 5 minutes trying to find the button and saying 'now what'. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Liona Maane Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.18 16:51:00 - [45] It seems to me that the general opinion is that it's ok the leaning curve is so steep and that the tutorials are long and hard. I heard people saying that is a way to sort the players of the game. There is a fear of the game getting to easy, and thereby getting overflown - it is almost like a country that don't want foreigners... I wonder if it makes the veteran players feel better about themselves, that they are hard core? But I guess EVE is a lot about reputation and bragging rights! But since you are free of (game)choose, and people are not escaping a war (more likely trying to find one) I think the game in itself will attract the ones that like this kind of game, not everybody! I can't see the problem in making the tutorials easier and more appealing. You can always skip it if you want to feel hardcore...
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2007.01.18 17:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Liona Maane Originally by: Raste Harder to get into but holds you longer. Theres a certain tension between immediate accessibility and complexity, CCP probably steers more towards complexity than any mass-market game could fathom. Its a good thing. But what could happen (of bad things) if it was easier to get in to the game? Why not have a game that is easier to learn (than EVE is now) and then also would hold you for long? I doubt it would hold me for as long if it was made easier, the tutorial was a lot longer when I started did the very basics of it then went and learned by doing. Infact i only completed the tutorial when it was changed so you could sell the implant you got at the end of it. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Sol Flare Caldari The White Star Consortium Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 17:29:00 - [47] The learning curve is steep for the sheer fact of the mechanics that run this game. 2 months... 6 months... 1 year down the road you will be looking at things and learning something new that completely changes the game for you. Tell me what other MMO can do that? Especially when CCP gives players access to info on almost every usable module and ship. You might fit your ship one way to achieve one goal and need to compeletly change it to achieve another... Until you have played a while you will never understand the depth this game has. Plus the CCP nerfs & changes, those will keep you on the edge of your seat!
Valan	Posted - 2007.01.18 18:16:00 - [48] EVE was a lot less complex when we started a tutorial would've been helpful all the same. My brother has started playing and I've watched him through the tutorials, they're laborious. Although you can skip and jump into them at different points, so just do the bits that you need to. EVE isn't that complex just more complex than the other MMORPGs. Learning is a complex field and especially learning from computers. I know I did a dissertation on e-learning for my MSc. The current tutorial doesn't do a bad job just needs some tweaking. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Alexi Borizkova Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.18 18:19:00 - [49] Really, I think the best way to learn is to be personally taught by another player. It just goes so much faster. And you, as the teacher, get to vicariously experience all the wonder of seeing the game unfold for the first time. Best done in person, too. I'd suggest to anyone that thought the tutorial was long and clunky, to not subject your friends to it, and teach them in person.
Liona Maane Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:17:00 - [50] Then what would happen if the learning curve was even steeper, making the game more complex? Would we get fewer - but more devoted players??
Corbin Devereux Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:26:00 - [51] Cause when i started playing there was no tutorial and i ran around not knowing basic stuff for weeks?
Corbin Devereux Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:33:00 - [52] Originally by: Mazzarins Demise Originally by: Malicia Skirj Originally by: Liona Maane Originally by: Malicia Skirj Steep? I thought it was pretty simple compared to AO. I havent tried AO, is it really worse than EVE? Have to try it then, maybe then afterwards I¦ll think EVE is a walk in the spacepark? It's amazingly complex if you really want to master it. There are about 12 professions..and not only do you have to know your own very well (and anyone that says most professions just hit Q (attack button) and go AFK don't know their professions very well), you also have to know others. For example...you wanna be a doc...grand. You know you have to heal. You need nanobots to heal. They run out fast. When you're out, your team dies if they're not lucky enough to escape. Solutions? Have the keeper run a nanobot replenishing auro, get PNH and IOR from a nanotechnician, max psychic and train perks related to nanobot boosting. That's a very basic example. On top of that you'll want to know what nanoformulas offer the best protection...who can calm mobs, who can root them, who can charm them, who can boost your [insert skill] skill, etc. To do well you practically have to memorize everything about every character. The only reason I left is because they massively screwed nanotechnicians over (my main there was a level 206 NT) by capping range and giving nearly every other profession a way to break out of a root. Those were pretty much their only advantage since they die so easily... Imagine a ship in Eve with 600 shields/armor/structure...with no capability of using extenders or shield boosters, etc......but able to nail another ship for 1K a pop at 500KM from the start, with another ship tackling. Now imagine that same ship with range limited to everyone's max range (let's say it's capped at 100KM for the hell of it), and when they're ganged with another ship IT isn't allowed to tackle, either. But it still only has 600 points and no ability to 'heal'. So yes...stupidly complex...wacky good fun...AND it's set in the future..nearly 50,000 years. But the one profession I wanted most of all was messed up about 3 years into it. And now I'm here. :) Shush and give me my Mochams!!!! Oh wait....I'm the Meta-Physicist!!! If you ask me to build your twink some carbonium again i swear to god i'll shove my slayerdroid so far up your *** that he'll be able to pluck your nose hairs and no i'm not logging my damn alt just to give you a wrangle! Why did i have to pick the 3 classes everybody always bugs all the time?!
Ashurn Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:44:00 - [53] I myself, being quite a new player as well. (nearly 3 months) I went through the tutorial thrice. And even before stepping into the trial. I spent one month browsing the forums on topics that might interest me or educate me on what to expect. Even now, I'm still clueless on some aspects of the game. But seriously, EVE isn't that complex. The tutorial is a must since it teaches a whole lot of basics to the new player. I just have to say, when I am in the rookie's help channel. I can't help but get angry when I see a throng of newbie questions that anyone with a reasonable level of IQ that went through the tutorial would probably need not ask. Examples like, "How do I orbit the npc?" or "How do I lock the targets?". And even, "How do I dock?" I was stumped by the question really. How can someone not know how to dock if they went through the tutorial? Anyway, I do not think the tutorial is indepth enough nor is it too complex. If EVE gets any easier, I would probably go back to WoW.
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:34:00 - [54] Originally by: Liona Maane It seems to me that the general opinion is that it's ok the leaning curve is so steep and that the tutorials are long and hard. I heard people saying that is a way to sort the players of the game. There is a fear of the game getting to easy, and thereby getting overflown - it is almost like a country that don't want foreigners... I wonder if it makes the veteran players feel better about themselves, that they are hard core? But I guess EVE is a lot about reputation and bragging rights! But since you are free of (game)choose, and people are not escaping a war (more likely trying to find one) I think the game in itself will attract the ones that like this kind of game, not everybody! I can't see the problem in making the tutorials easier and more appealing. You can always skip it if you want to feel hardcore... You seem to be missing the point of the tutorial. The tutorial is not some chore you must grind through to start playing, It's a tool to help you learn the basics of the game. If they shortened the tutorial, they would simply decrease it's usefulness. Besides, you are free to skip any part of the tutorial you like. Sigs are for noobs.
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:38:00 - [55] Edited by: Stitcher on 20/01/2007 19:35:13 one word: tutorial It turns the learning curve into a short ladder, then a gentle uphill walk with a lovely view. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
Ctair Pilru Nubs. Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:52:00 - [56] I don't know how it was for everyone else, but when I first picked up Eve and started the tutorial I was psyched out! I actually had fun going through the tutorial... Consequently, I've played Eve for over a year now with no thoughts of quitting. Often when I try to get RL friends into Eve I can tell if they're going to stick with the game depending on how interested they are in the tutorial. In my case, I saw how complex the game was and knew that if I took the time to learn it, it would be loads of fun. You just have to realize the potential, and you won't mind the steep learning curve. ---
Jetah Haukes Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.20 20:30:00 - [57] As a very new player (less than a week), I would not be doing as well as I am now without the aid of the tutorial. I have made a few mil ISK and got a small fleet of frigates for different purposes (I am sure this isn't that impressive but I enjoyed it!). Anyone who doesn't complete the tutorial is, in my eyes, shooting themselves in the foot at the beginning. WoW free since 12/1/07! Thank you Eve Online!
Zhecao Vai	Posted - 2007.01.20 20:35:00 - [58] I really don't understand the complaints. The tutorial is a few hours at very most; if that's too long, maybe you should reconsider your choice of hobby, because a few hours is not meant to be an insurmountable timespan in MMOs. Presuming that you do the tutorial, join the help channel, and read the forums and player guide, the game is pretty self-explanatory and easy to pick up. All of those things would be normal for learning any game, and EVE is no easier and not really any harder either.
Cray Malloc	Posted - 2007.01.20 21:46:00 - [59] The tutorial may be long and the learning curve to mastering a lot of the game is indeed steep, but I think of it as a trade-off. Eve has a deep design that facilitates a player-driven, vibrant world. If you don't have the time or inclination to master the game in an evening, you can train some skills and strap on some modules and focus on whatever interests you; there will always be another interesting facet of the game waiting when you want to explore your options. I have played off and on for 8 months, and just last night I found a new layer of complexity to mining, now that's exciting :P
Shao Daar United Alliance Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.01.20 22:14:00 - [60] Instead of the tutorial, a PROPER documentation might be in order... a PDF you can download, with all the info one needs, on both technical aspects of EVE (install, uninstall, troubleshooting), as well as game instructions (from basice, flying, to items, trade, ammo, contracts, missions, training, difficulty, and so on, and so on). It should even have a list of some basic skills (descriptions, usage), items (again, descriptions, usage) and should be updated if a patch changes something. It doesn't have to be short... it's a PDF, one can print it and read it sitting on the can for all I care. But the tutorial isn't doing what it's supposed to. Hell, in a game like EVE, I don't think any 'tutorial' could do that.
Zhecao Vai	Posted - 2007.01.20 22:56:00 - [61] Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 20/01/2007 22:53:35 You really think the tutorial isn't doing it? Is there some evidence for that? It seemed pretty comprehensive when I went through it. Besides, isn't that exactly what the player guide on the website is for? If you can't look hard enough as a new player to find the "Player Guide" link right on the side of the front page of the game site, then I guess I don't have a lot of sympathy for your confusion.
Shao Daar United Alliance Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.01.21 00:18:00 - [62] Originally by: Zhecao Vai Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 20/01/2007 22:53:35 You really think the tutorial isn't doing it? Is there some evidence for that? It seemed pretty comprehensive when I went through it. Besides, isn't that exactly what the player guide on the website is for? If you can't look hard enough as a new player to find the "Player Guide" link right on the side of the front page of the game site, then I guess I don't have a lot of sympathy for your confusion. Hmm... perhaps I should redo the tutorial then. Did it a loooooong time ago, and I had to get most info out of the newb-corp chat channel. And I'm NOT talking about "how do I undock" or similar difficulty questions. Seriously, EVE lacks documentation. And no, I'm not confused, I think I've played long enough not to NEED anything myself. But newbies might.
Zhecao Vai	Posted - 2007.01.21 00:52:00 - [63] I know you're not confused, I just meant "you" as in "an example newbie." Anyway, I agree that there are lots of questions to be answered which are not covered in the guide or tutorial. However, everything needed to get started and have fun playing the game is covered. When you become curious how module bonuses stack, how to make a safespot, how different modules operate, and so on and so forth - you can experiment for yourself, come to the forums, or ask someone. I have had a total of one question yet in my EVE career which I haven't been able to easily answer immediately (the formulae for how mass, agility, and acceleration + turning speed relate.) I think that not including these things in the initial "data dump" that is the tutorials is a lot more friendly, because it's easier to take in all the most important information first, get started, get a feel for things, and then discover for yourself what important questions have yet to be answered. Is there something in particular you think is very important for a new player before they can start, say, mining, running missions, flying around with different setups, or meeting people, which isn't covered in the tutorials or player guide? I can't think of anything.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 01:42:00 - [64] Basically, EVE is complicated because theres so much to it. If there were less to it, it'd be easier to understand........... The upside of there being more to EVE than any other MMO is that you can do more (far more) than in any other, you are far more likely to find a "something" that you enjoy, and it'll keep you engrossed far longer. Add to that a complex player-driven economic model and perhaps gaming's only true player-driven politics, and you've got a game worth waiting for Persevere. Play your 14 day trial, then pay for a month. After a month and 14 days, you'll have experienced enough small chunks to know if its worth hanging on for the rest of the game -----------------------------------------------
Moses Mortensen Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.01.22 01:15:00 - [65] They say it takes a minute to find EVE-online, an hour to download it, a day to do the tutorial, but a lifetime to master it!

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.