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Typhis Deterious Lonetrek Intergalactic OnliNe Systems	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Joe Originally by: Joe I think if the amount of belts in 0.1-0.4 was increased, an average of say 20-30 belts per system it would promote alot of younger corps and players to populate the systems. I'm sure that many belts would tempt corps to adopting new 'home' systems. 0.1-0.4 should be a normal transitional stage between empire and 0.0 for new players/corps, at the moment i think to many are skipping it, e.g Empire corp grows, developes organised group play, but then thinks its the right time to move out to 0.0/join alliance. Unfortunately I choose to post legitimate concerns and valid arguments in a thread that was inevitably doomed to be petty pvp v carebear v troll flamefest. What a waste of time. Mine wasn't a flame so much as calling it like it is. OP says no one goes to low-sec, I enlightened him on why.
Dante Cyberon	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:53:00 - [32] let me get this right, your a pirate, who used to kill over 200 people a week, when back then ther was only about 15k people playing average, and is now COMPLAINING that your systems that you are "Defending" has nothing to defend against? like so many others have said, you suffer from your own doings, or in otherwords, do what Privateers alliance do, randomly dec alliances so you can get hauler kills in high sec,,, bloody lame i say, your the exact reason 0.4-0.1 isnt populated, when someone goes ratting they can maybe pickup 1-2 mill per 40 belt's. then in 2 minutes you guys come in and blow u his ship/pod resulting in alot of loss, massively outwieghing the risk/reward. why dont pirates just sod off and stop whining that "We want this" "We want that", because all CCP seems to do is say "Wish granted" and to those who just said EvE is all about PvP, what in the hell, is mining pvp? is trade pvp ? is mission running pvp? is industry pvp? thats why their is the term PVE!!!!!!!!!! yeah alot of activity is created by PvP, but not 100% is PvP i'm sure i have mentioned this in other forums, if the game was 100% PvP why the hell would we get macro's? screw repopulating low sec, get rid of the macro's first,
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:04:00 - [33] Allow low sec to be controllable, like 00. Boost ores, boost npcs, boost defence... Move the higher isk making missions there, remove the really good ores from empire and missions. I don't pirate, but it's too easy to make isk in empire. You need some risk, and if you think level 4 missions are risk, you are mistaken. -=====-
Torhas Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:07:00 - [34] I think the whole issue could be solved by putting cheap BC spawns in 0.3 and 0.4 systems, and cheap BS spawns (500k, maybe even make a crappier 400k version) in 0.1-0.3 systems. Sanguine public channel: Khanidblood
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:08:00 - [35] To entice people into low sec you need better incentives to get them there. You could increase the bounties on Rats within lowsec. You could increase the size and improve the composition of asteroid belts in low sec. You could increase the respawn rate ( not an issue right now but if we can attract enough miners we need to keep them there). Until such time as the payout for operating in low sec increases to a point that many consider it worthwhile, they will continue to avoid it. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:10:00 - [36] Originally by: MysticNZ Allow low sec to be controllable, like 00. Boost ores, boost npcs, boost defence... Move the higher isk making missions there, remove the really good ores from empire and missions. I don't pirate, but it's too easy to make isk in empire. You need some risk, and if you think level 4 missions are risk, you are mistaken. Nerfing Empire will not increase low sec traffic, it didn't before and it will not in the future it will only cause folks to leave the game. Your other ideas of boosting ore types, size of asteroid belts, payout and difficulty of NPCs are all viable. You could also put new level 4 agents in low sec but I would not remove them from empire. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Betonela Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:49:00 - [37] dude how u dare to say that oh wait u need to get new ppl but u still put dock fee on outpost to join a corp on alliance need to get capital ships but u dont let them to put a POS so they need to refine the minerals on your outpost whit over 10% tax u dont make standing "clue"(only blue for LV) so your allies see them neutral and kill them on gate camp (ops i forget to read the bio where say friend of LV ) and u dont make anything to pay them the destroyed ship`s back and now u come and say "n00bs dont love me" --------- join on New Movement of Market Traders
Typhis Deterious Lonetrek Intergalactic OnliNe Systems	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Betonela dude how u dare to say that oh wait u need to get new ppl but u still put dock fee on outpost to join a corp on alliance need to get capital ships but u dont let them to put a POS so they need to refine the minerals on your outpost whit over 10% tax u dont make standing "clue"(only blue for LV) so your allies see them neutral and kill them on gate camp (ops i forget to read the bio where say friend of LV ) and u dont make anything to pay them the destroyed ship`s back and now u come and say "n00bs dont love me" I'm sorry but... what?
Betonela Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:14:00 - [39] Originally by: Typhis Deterious Originally by: Betonela .... I'm sorry but... what? sarcasm :P he say that 00 is underpopulated but hes alliance put dock fee (aroud 500k per a bs) new corps to join in allaince need capital etc etc etc --------- join on New Movement of Market Traders
Daos Leghki Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:17:00 - [40] An interesting problem is that the firepower a roaming pirate brings is disproportionate to that of the defenders. For example, let's say Joe Pirate shows up in a system in a Vaga. To chase him off you need at least one decent battleship pilot, who we shall call Steve. Now, Steve could be there chasing off Joe, and maybe getting paid 10 mil/week to do so, or he could be out in 0.0 ratting for 10 mil/hour. Which one do you think Steve will do? The fundamental problem of low-sec is that there is not enough incentive to stay. I personally dislike a lot of stuff that alliances do in 0.0, politics and all that junk. But, I can always compliment them on one thing: they make their space safe. No matter what, no matter how they do it, all successful alliances make their space more safe than not. They have the resources and the experience and the ISK. Why can't people do that in low-sec? Because they could be out in 0.0 and making 10 times as much.

Typhis Deterious Lonetrek Intergalactic OnliNe Systems	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:48:00 - [41] Originally by: Betonela Originally by: Typhis Deterious Originally by: Betonela .... I'm sorry but... what? sarcasm :P he say that 00 is underpopulated but hes alliance put dock fee (aroud 500k per a bs) new corps to join in allaince need capital etc etc etc I know I am just being difficult
Soporo	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:49:00 - [42] Boost all LowSec Stations in every way...Services and especially MORE labs and more Medical and better Refining. Boost Belts, Ores, Rats, Courier missions, and something unique. Like maybe a % chance everytime a Roid is popped that something cool/informative/rewarding occurs. Do NOT make this skill based... Lower all tax in Market activity in LowSec systems. Boost the NPC market items here as well. Leave the same or lower the Security hit in LowSec for ship kills, Double the hit for Podding.(random idea) Add a sprinkle of better Agents to every LowSec system. Disallow Motherships in LowSec... Create Mining vessels (or revamp existing ones), particularly Barges, that can actually have a decent tank, a few more Drones, and won't cost billions. Create a hauler between an Industrial and a Blockade Runner. Create a mobile Micro POS or large sized vessel for industrial services. Don't make it insanely expensive. Create a mobile micro POS or large sized vessel that can do limited Shielding, Webbing and whatnot. These vessels cannot be active around Gates or Stations for whatever reason. It's late, my ideas are getting wilder and wilder.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:58:00 - [43] Originally by: MysticNZ Allow low sec to be controllable, like 00. Boost ores, boost npcs, boost defence... Move the higher isk making missions there, remove the really good ores from empire and missions. I don't pirate, but it's too easy to make isk in empire. You need some risk, and if you think level 4 missions are risk, you are mistaken. A) You evidently don't do mission or only the easy one with high rewards; b) the equation risk/reward must consider not only the probability of a loss happening but the value of the loss. If a mission runner loose a 1 billion isk ship every 3 months, is loss is greeater than a PvP player loosing 25 T2 frigates priced 20 millions each in the same period. But every time risk vs reward is called, this is easily forgotten. c) mining best ore, best ship, highest skill: high sec 10 million/hour, 0.0: 100 million/hour. The danger is 10x in 0.0 (alliance space, non ninja mining)? d) ratting and complex here the gain is more than 10x by a big margin, even in low sec. Why the suggested solution is always: "Neerf what I don't like to do, they must be punished" ?
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:01:00 - [44] simple fix 1) move all lv 4 and above to low sec 2) increase worth of ores in low sec 3) increase worth of NPC in low sec 4) move all 4 and above complexes to low sec 5) increase number of belts and stations in low sec 6) incerease the power of the sentries in low sec increase the profits in low sec while reducing them in high sec will then make the risk seem to be worth the reward. RAM is recruiting
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:08:00 - [45] Originally by: dantes inferno simple fix 1) move all lv 4 and above to low sec 2) increase worth of ores in low sec 3) increase worth of NPC in low sec 4) move all 4 and above complexes to low sec 5) increase number of belts and stations in low sec 6) incerease the power of the sentries in low sec increase the profits in low sec while reducing them in high sec will then make the risk seem to be worth the reward. As I stated above, nerfing high sec will not help. Thus your points 1 and 4 will not help. Some would indeed follow them but probably half or more would give up. Your other suggestions are good. You need to make low sec more attractive by increasings its incentives without decreasing/nerfing incentives in Empire. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:19:00 - [46] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 20/01/2007 10:17:24 There have been threads like this for a long, long time without anything being done. I would like low sec to be made more profitable too, but I think ccp wants to encourage players to go to 0.0 instead of low sec. And if so, the larger the reward difference between low sec and 0.0 is, the better. But yes, I agree its a shame that low sec isnt more populated. In 0.0 you get a really hard time playing solo. Its a natural fact of these games that some people prefer to play it solo, because of time restraints or having an anti-social nature. I think one of the reasons we have so many mission runners in high sec is simply because its one of the only ways to play the game if you are solo and have an hour to play. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:41:00 - [47] Edited by: Faith Black on 20/01/2007 10:37:39 Think factional warfare will bring more people to low sec. Btw. far off the main routes the situation is not that bad. There are corps living there and working together and pirates are rare. I've been doing missions in low sec for some time undesturbed there in different places and saw corps ratting and mining. They just don't do it at the main routes and in highly populated regions. About dark ochre in low. sec.: I think that would be a bit much. At least a few month ago it was the 2nd most profitable ore in some regions, a bit worse than arkanor, but better than gneiss, mercoxit and the other stuff that is there. ------ Who wants to be Caldari, if he could be 1337 instead ? Minnie 4tw ! ^^
Kazah'dur Vorlonis	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Twilight Moon Easy solution: 1) Remove High sec 2) Ignore the flamefest that ensues 3) Happy ganktastic fun time! Only thing that would be a solution is overpopulation, like 90% of players would quit :P
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:15:00 - [49] 1. I dont think low-sec space ever had a population worth speaking of. In three years of play, low sec was always no mans land. 2. If you want people to come out to low sec...then your going to have a NPC police force out there. 3. This thread falls in with the thousand other threads.."I cant make any money ganking people, so CCP has to make my area richer so I can make money!" 4. I am tired of these threads where the posters are only looking for means to make more isk. Low security space was never ment for people to live in, or try to claim. Its always ment to be the grey area between Empire and 0.0 space. Stop trying to get it redone to a money making area. If you aint noticed...CCP has a habit of not paying attention to these threads for a reason..... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Winters Chill Amarr Scavenger Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:29:00 - [50] Edited by: Winters Chill on 20/01/2007 11:27:49 I think hidden space "holes" and stargates are the answer, but thats just me. There nothing more annoying than realising that all the closest gates to 0.0 are camped with bubbles.

Gaia's Wrath	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:32:00 - [51] Ok first off it is still easy to get 20 to 30 kills a day in 0.0 no problem there. Just roam the 1 route into any alliance region (generally about 1 or 2 main routes in a region). You can get kills just don't run the same region everyday you will start running into alliance blobs. Now if you really want to populate 0.0, bring in solar system sov and Constellation sov. With the option of deploying gate guns. (guns function is to pervent gate camps not just pew pew everyone.) Also a penalty for placing guns around a gate ie 1 gun at a gate cause you to warp in at 5 km when you warp to 0. Add to that the ability to do fiancial damage to an outpost. (you can lock the outpost shoot it but not physically damage it, but rather it costs the holding corp isks). The game truly needs some sort of mechanism that will motivate people to undock and fight not just dock and wait for hostiles to leave. I would like to see an addition to interdictors. The abliity to drop some sort of irridation bubble. To tag ships so a gang can warp to an irridated ship. So when people run off they better run off because they can be easily chased. So in general: 1)Increased granularity to owning territory. Motives corps to make a claim in 0.0 space. Regions are to big for a single owner. 2)Fiancial penalties if you don't care to truely defend what is yours. 3)Force a better fight or flight scenario.
Zana Kito	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:34:00 - [52] This is a very interesting debate, and i think solutions to solving it isn't easy to come by. I've played eve a bit back in 2004, started in empire, mined, missioned, traded.. after awhile, got to low sec for bigger rewards. Kept getting into fights i wasn't looking for. i.e back then i didnt have warp to 0, or insta bookmarks. Sure, i earned a bit more than empire but the risk isnt worth it. Go into a 0.0 alliance with allies all around. It felt like empire, especially in deep systems that rarely ever get the lone pirates visiting. Isk income is insane for almost no risk. Looking at this situation for players; 1. you can either make decent isk in empire for no risk 2. make slightly better isk for huge risks in low sec 3. make a huge amount of isk for almost no risk in 0.0 You can see why people don't bother going to low sec. How do you change this? You won't solve it by; 1. Giving low sec better ores. Why? The risk is much higer, but there's still better ores in 0.0 2. Giving low sec better npc spawns. Same reason as 1. -------------- So far, restricting L5 agents in low sec only is the best idea. - These missions must offer great rewards (T2 BPCs is a good start and a great incentive for small corps). - Make the missions truely for group play, i.e. the npc gives out that mission, you can share to several people in your gang so they also get the bonuses. - Remove the missions away from deadspace. Make them occur nearby planets. None of the safe hidding in deadspace. If you are here for the uber rewards then be prepared to defend yourself and your corp mates. - Allow decent salvage drop rates for T2 salvage components from the mission npcs. What will happen is a lot of small corps see this as the next expansion of their empire activities, i.e. mission running, salvaging, manufacturing. But it offers great incentives with t2 bpc rewards, t2 salvage components. After the free for all fest pvp that occur, these corps will agree to NAP with each other so most of the day-to-day activities is somewhat peaceful especially with corp/alliance pvp patrols. But it also allow free movement for pirate gank squad or solo pvpers to have their fun as well. Win win situation.
Fergus Runkle	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:53:00 - [53] I used to base out of low sec quite a bit, mine, rat, mission. Now I don't go there at all. Its simply no fun for me anymore. Originally by: Tokra I tell you something Bellum. Guys like you are the reason i dont go to low sec anymore. Everytime i was there i was attacked. When i am going to low sec i dont expect to be targeted and shot everytime and from everyone. Sure, it is a PVP game. But this dont mean its a "kill everything you see" game. It is not PVP when only one is shoting. That is called Player killing. You said you killed 20 to 30 ships a day in the past. What kind of ships? How experienced where the pilots and how many SP did they have? Its no fun for these that get shot by someone who has 10x the SP. Image you get killed 20 times a day in a fight you cant even win in your dreams. How long would you go on staying there? There are always two sides. Says all there needs to be said really. and Originally by: dantes inferno simple fix 1) move all lv 4 and above to low sec 2) increase worth of ores in low sec 3) increase worth of NPC in low sec 4) move all 4 and above complexes to low sec 5) increase number of belts and stations in low sec 6) incerease the power of the sentries in low sec increase the profits in low sec while reducing them in high sec will then make the risk seem to be worth the reward. None of that would attract me to low sec, not while there are the high numbers of people like the OP around. The content (or lack of it) is not why low sec is unoccupied. The reason low sec is unoccupied is that the number of predators is too high for the prey to find it appealing. You can put all the shiny you want in low sec, whilst people like the OP are there you will not attract numbers.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:08:00 - [54] Why not simply leave it the way it is??? It have been like this now for soon... 4 years, and it have worked nicely till now! Also, a NGE like which where so fatal for SWG, dont neccesary mean to dumb down the game (They did that in SWG though) It can also mean to make it so unplayable for lot of people that they start leaving. Remember, NGE had supporterts too in SWG. They where just in minority. I think you guys and gals should be happy with EVE the way it is! It works! If you want more targets, go to 0.0 or empire and wardecc someone. That is a way to do pirating too. But to ask for such radical changes in EVE will definitely not be for the good of the game! Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:13:00 - [55] Edited by: Faith Black on 20/01/2007 12:13:36 Originally by: Gaia's Wrath Now if you really want to populate 0.0, bring in solar system sov and Constellation sov. With the option of deploying gate guns. (guns function is to pervent gate camps not just pew pew everyone.) Also a penalty for placing guns around a gate ie 1 gun at a gate cause you to warp in at 5 km when you warp to 0. ... 1)Increased granularity to owning territory. Motives corps to make a claim in 0.0 space. Regions are to big for a single owner. Somehow I doubt that we will see an increased granularity. The main thing that limits the power of big alliances is their inability to be everywhere at the same time. They can't police/secure large territory 23/7. Constellation sovereignty and gate guns are fully in their interest, because they still have the power to tear everything down, but it helps them to keep control, while their military is not present. My prediction is that the big alliances decide, who gets a constellation and is allowed to build up their defenses. If a small alliance made an attempt to become independent, following their own agenda, big alliances X or Coalition Y would come, tear it down and replace them with a more loyal group that would be allowed to build up something there. This tendency to hug together more and more in growing alliances and coaltions with more and more NAPs is the most negative development in EVE imho. And in the middle of those NAP blobs sits at least one big alliance, who pulls the strings. Currently the only space that allows smaller entities to stay independent and follow their own politics and standings is 0.0 with npc stations. /edit I wrote the most negative development. That was wrong. The most negative development is an influx of carebears ofc, who whine against unconsentual pvp and such. ------ Who wants to be Caldari, if he could be 1337 instead ? Minnie 4tw ! ^^
Felix Dzerzhinsky Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:22:00 - [56] I said this would happen when warp to 0 was being proposed - that low sec would become dead. The traders all said warp to 0 was good for selling things - but they do realize who is buying their stuff. The miners wanted it beccause it provided security against pirates - but they go to 0.0 unprepared becuase of the easy time they have in low sec. Pirates are what made low sec what it was. These days, shooting someone in low sec, considering the sec hit and the near impossibility of finding someone to come out (and when they do, you suspect its a trap - which it more likely then not is) adds up to - why hunt in low sec at all. So low sec is just a buffer zone you have to pass through in order to get to 0.0 or to empire - its just dead space.
Adunh Slavy Chaos Faction	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:24:00 - [57] Increasing rewards is not going to encourage anyone into low sec over the long run. All that will happen is a few people will try it, they will get blown up by "pirates", and we'll be right back where we started. Originally by: Cmdr Sy 6) Halve sec status penalties. ... Chaning the rules of enagement will help. I propose allowing positive sec status players to shoot at negative sec status players with out a loss of sec status. Nothing more complicated than that. Lots of us high sec status people like the pew-pew, but we're in many ways forced to allow someone else to take the first shot. Also, If someone shoots at my corp mate, I have also have to take a sec status hit to defend/help him. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Concord, nor factional navies, patrol low sec, that's why it is low sec duh, but the players them selves can do it if given the "go ahead" by concord and the faction. Think of it as a letter of marquee. Low sec should be the half-way between "safe" (.5 and up) and "lawless" (0.0) but it isn't. It's this sort of backwards security space and is ruled by "pirates" and not representatives (high sec players) of the factions that control the space. -AS
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:32:00 - [58] Originally by: Faith Black My prediction is that the big alliances decide, who gets a constellation and is allowed to build up their defenses. If a small alliance made an attempt to become independent, following their own agenda, big alliances X or Coalition Y would come, tear it down and replace them with a more loyal group that would be allowed to build up something there. This tendency to hug together more and more in growing alliances and coaltions with more and more NAPs is the most negative development in EVE imho. And in the middle of those NAP blobs sits at least one big alliance, who pulls the strings. That is the path all human societies take. It is not the game that generates that phenomenon, it is the cultural baggage that we bring with us. Originally by: Faith Black Currently the only space that allows smaller entities to stay independent and follow their own politics and standings is 0.0 with npc stations. Agreed, but even this is often not the case. Curse, Geminate and Great Wildlands are three examples I could name of regions which though containing NPC stations, have been occupied by hegemonic entities for extended periods of time in the past. Syndicate has remained unconquerable, but that's largely because the rewards are not worth the time of any potential conqueror. Across the map, risk/reward is skewed. You have something like this: High sec Empire: Low risk, moderate reward Low sec Empire: High risk, moderate reward Alliance 0.0: Moderate risk, high reward If you want steady ISK for low risk, high sec is the place. If you want obscene and ostentatious wealth at the expense of slightly higher risk, go to the land of purple blobs. But in low sec, you have all the risk of unclaimed 0.0 with the reward of a high sec transit system. If we accept the traditional idea that low sec Empire should be a buffer between Alliance and Empire carebears, then we must accept that the proper name for that is "no-man's land". And the thing about a no-man's land is, no-one stays there to fashion a society and set up economic activity. Logoffs on Fraps
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:42:00 - [59] Originally by: Zana Kito So far, restricting L5 agents in low sec only is the best idea. ..... - Make the missions truely for group play, i.e. the npc gives out that mission, you can share to several people in your gang so they also get the bonuses. .... Your suggestion aren't bad, but intill the NPC AI isn't made better,a level 5 group mission seem the NPC version of the blob vs blob battles. Enter room, PC group call primary NPC group aggro against 1 target. Fire till primary or aggroed target drop. Repeat. Add that NPC suffer less for lag, pirates wouldn't be targeted. So, if based on the current mission engine, it will be unplayable, particulary in a non deadspace area as you suggest. The end result would be the pirate getting the big rewards 2/3 of the time or the need to lock the system to make a mission. If making a symilar mission require 5 BS as mission running group and 2 BS and 3 T2 frigates to protect the mission runners from a pirate gang, all the small corporations are out of the picture. It could work if the big reward is the mission reward, not something dropped by the enemyes. So it can be lost failing the mission, but not looted by someone busting the mission. With that option it can be possible even get some pact with the local pirates giving them a fraction of the rewars for a safe conduct during the mission. (Not that I think most pirates will accept).
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:45:00 - [60] The problem is that CCP have done too good a job of introducing risk and fear into the game. The thing that makes Eve so good is the very thing that the OP is suffering from. What we are seeing in Eve is the truth about the human psyche. Most people don't want to fight and are happy to amble their way through life. The only thing that can be done to get more people into low-sec is to reduce the consequences of loss. IOW turn Eve into a run of the mill safe, fluffy MMORPG where there are no serious consequences to your actions. Now before I get flamed I want to make it clear that I don't support that move. It would destroy Eve and I'd hate it. Unfortunately that is the only way you're going to change the attacker/victim ratio of the game. People calling for Empire to be nerfed to force players into low sec need to get a clue. Most humans don't want to suffer those kind of losses and you're never going to change them. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless



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