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Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:01:00 - [1] I'm not going to discuss 0.0 here because that's a whole other ballgame: warp bubbles, huge gate camps, 90% of the space is empty, with the other 10% locked down by alliances etc. I like low-sec because it doesn't present these major problems for solo and small gang pvp/pirating. But the thing is, there isn't any incentive for players to live/play in lowsec systems. I've been flying between numerous lowsec pockets, looking for targets of any type, just to see what is out there. What I've experienced is this: 95% of the players I find in local are docked. The other 5% are either at a gate (0km), on a mission (impossible to probe out), or at a deathstar POS mucking about. I think that in Eve players quickly settle into two major groups: those who end up in deep 0.0/alliance space, and those who stick to empire. The more experienced players don't hang around in lowsec when they can just join a corp/alliance that is already in deep 0.0 space and offers much better rewards in terms of minerals and NPCs. The Empire guys just sit and run missions and avoid traveling into lowsec systems whenever possible. Belt piracy is pretty much 100% dead at this point in my opinion. I've been cruising through little pockets of low sec systems with multiple characters, checking belts and stuff and I very rarely come across a ship in a belt, and when I do it's some noob player who's too new to know better. There simply isn't any reason for the experienced or semi-experienced (4-6 month players) players to be in a lowsec belt ratting/mining. I only see mission runners, and those I only see very briefly as they warp off to their mission and then warp back at 0km and instadock. I don't even bother wasting probes on them anymore. With maxed probe strength skills and nearing max probe speed skills, I find about one out of a hundred mission runners I try and probe out. And by the time that I actually scan them down, they've completed the mission and warped back to the station. This game is becoming increasingly polarized with very little in-between the two extremes. I used to be able to get 20-30 kills a day easily, now I'm lucky if I can find one or two, and that's if I fly all over the place scouring system after system looking for targets. Since the introduction of Revelations it has become increasingly easy to avoid almost any fight. Even bubbles don't really matter anymore- just log off. Players have so much time between the time that they know they might be in danger of being attacked and having the attacker warp in on them, it's almost impossible to lock them down before they can warp to a safe spot etc. But getting back to the main point, the real problem is simply a complete lack of population in the belts. Any suggestions? I'm thinking- bigger rats and better ore in the belts for a start. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Daddy's Belt Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:10:00 - [2] Your alliance might ask you what you're doing ganking noobs in Empire when you've got 0.0 to defend. No wonder LV is hurting so much lately. Someone's gonna get a buttwhippin'!
Kerushi Caldari BIG	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:11:00 - [3] Edited by: Kerushi on 20/01/2007 02:07:45 u`ll have to put rare ores in low sec if u even want to make ppl think about moving to low sec 0.0 is alot safer and easy to get to low sec u have ppl roaming all day long just for a kill like u`ve said, for pritty much the same isk as in high sec personally, i won`t go into low sec except for making a carrier run or for a pos, easier to make money in high sec then low sec [ [auction] 120 warp scrambler II ]
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:13:00 - [4] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I used to be able to get 20-30 kills a day easily... You don't think that would have anything to do with less people showing an interest in low sec, do you?
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:18:00 - [5] The only incentives that would bring appreciable amounts of people out of Empire and into LoSec would have to be high enough that you would instead attract Alliance corps instead. Simply the majority of people in Empire don't want to pew pew at each other all day. They don't want to be ganked, hunted down, lose ships and fittings and get their factions borked because of someone else's desire to shoot something. Most of them don't care if you want to shoot at someone, but they don't want to be the targets hence will stay away. Simply they feel the risk of losing ships to pirates too high to exceed the potential gain. Pirates have done their job too well; now they are paying the price for that success in the loss of targets. The only way to get the majority of players out of Empire would be to "prove" that piracy was nerfed or that they would be able to make enough to counter the losses. Either way its not likely to happen. <-----------> MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests.... LowSec != NoSec
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:18:00 - [6] Originally by: Daddy's Belt Your alliance might ask you what you're doing ganking noobs in Empire when you've got 0.0 to defend. No wonder LV is hurting so much lately. All because they are in empire doesn't mean they are noobs Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:19:00 - [7] Edited by: Patch86 on 20/01/2007 02:16:40 I think low-sec needs something.........unique. Empire has safety. Making low-sec more safe will never draw crowds, since those after safety always have Empire. 0.0 has wealth. No matter how much you increase the value of low-sec, it won't make much of a difference as 0.0 will always be more valuable. So what do we give low-sec? Something that it will have that neither 0.0 nor Empire wll have. The obvious answer- Level 5 agents. The fabled uber-hard teamworks-a-must missions, with big tasty rewards (which AREN'T just more money- some unique LP offers could work). This will ensure that any truly dedicated NPCing force really really have a reason to go to low-sec, and not 0.0. But that doesn't really help revive the at-belt / warpable object problem. So what we need to do is add more warpable objects (other than belts) that only low-sec will have. And heres my brilliant idea of the day: Pirate Cynos. Basically, every now and again, a Pirate faction cyno will spring up in system, and at it will spawn a Pirate Capital ship (or two) plus a support fleet similar in size to what you expect in missions. Brilliant. These SHOULD still appear in 0.0, but MORE frequently the higher the security rating (up to .4). In other words, more of these will spawn in low-sec than 0.0, and the higher sec the better. Why? Well for fluff reasons- the Pirates are only going to be warping attack groups into systems with targets worth attacking- they're more likely to launch massive attacks in Empire sovereignty space than the vast empty wildlands of 0.0. Genius. -----------------------------------------------
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:22:00 - [8] The big problems with low sec as I see them are: 1) Nothing worth fighting over. 2) Sec penalty too high to justify fighting over anything. There are exceptions - a couple of low secs are a nice little earner for us because miners pay us to mine there - but this works only because there are stations and these are low-traffic systems. There are also a few low secs with nice moons and a 5/10 drone complex, controlled by another group. But the only nearby stations are in high sec, and targets are spread across too many corps for war decs, which makes logistics near-impossible for an attacking force. Any attacker inevitably loses sec status and either becomes trapped, or must grind it back during the conflict. Then there are places like low sec Genesis and Aridia, which are a wasteland. Poor spawns, poor complexes, unattractive agents, pathetic ore, etc etc. It pays to be there only if you are a newbie trying out low sec while NPC BCs still pay for your skillbooks, or if you are using it as a blob highway. The blob highway part is one of the reasons much of it cannot be secured and rented out to carebears. My corp has plenty of experience securing mediocre systems and renting them out. Aridia and Genesis don't cut it. Even in Syndicate, no-one stays long, corp turn-over is high. And we once had to kick out our entire 'alliance' because we attracted a bunch of people with no staying power. If you really want low sec populated, you are going to give those of us who try to populate them a better product. Put yourself in my position, asking someone to pay 25m per week to mine Jaspet in a 0.3 highway system without agents, and assuring them my friends can keep them safe. It's not going to happen. The rewards of low sec do not justify the risks, and the PVP restrictions of low sec make effective contests for control impossible for those who wish to enjoy freedom of movement and fly something other than BS. So it's a lost cause. Low sec sucks, and I say that as one of its salesmen. Logoffs on Fraps
Kerushi Caldari BIG	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:24:00 - [9] those cap rats will have to target change every 20-30sec so even the prat gets hammerd if he isn`t kick in his kill and to avoid the 5 remote tanking ships making 1 unkillable tanker [ [auction] 120 warp scrambler II ]
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:26:00 - [10] rather then CCP doing something about it - would be nice if pirate corps did something about it themself. maybe take on a few carebear corps for a price, and protect them in low sec. it should provide more fights for the pirate against consentual pvpers, and maybe the carebear will discover that they like the low-sec life. dunno - it just seem that the reason CCP haven't done 'anything' about it is because they have basically done all they can. if they want sandbox, they can't force people to live in certain way. that is up to US - the pod pilots of EVE to change the map if that is what we really want. __ Weirda Nosferatu - Time for Change

Xendie Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:33:00 - [11] move dark ochre into lowsec and make gneiss the 0.0 ore that is in almost every system. result will be that lots of people will start mining in lowsec and in multiple previously totally worthless 0.0 systems. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent? Quote: jake sisko > its f-e's bob dev alt making lag
Rina Shanu Computer-Aided General Exploitation	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:37:00 - [12] I really wish people would start giving low sec a try. After being for a lot of time in low sec, both pirating and carebearing, I know for a fact there is a part of this community living there, having fun, not willingly to change. Yes there are few but there are. People have POSes in low sec, they research bpos, moon mine. There are lots of people in low sec doing 5/10 and 6/10 complexes. There are areas of low sec that have intel channels, where peopel scream "wolf" and take evasion action when pirates fly by. True I wished more would fight, but still. Passing by, ratting a little, running back to empire being chased by a pirate doe not mean you have "experienced" low sec, because that is just a portion of it. But people never try...... >> JOIN CAGE <<
Joe	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:38:00 - [13] I think if the amount of belts in 0.1-0.4 was increased, an average of say 20-30 belts per system it would promote alot of younger corps and players to populate the systems. I'm sure that many belts would tempt corps to adopting new 'home' systems. 0.1-0.4 should be a normal transitional stage between empire and 0.0 for new players/corps, at the moment i think to many are skipping it, e.g Empire corp grows, developes organised group play, but then thinks its the right time to move out to 0.0/join alliance. Pe0w
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:46:00 - [14] Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 20/01/2007 02:44:29 My standard list of improvements is as follows: 1) Make Hedbergite and Hemorphite common all the way up to 0.3 sec space. Jaspet does not justify the risks, and is not going to pay a couple of PVP pilots to sit in a belt or fancy location for several hours. Also introduce Gneiss as a rare find. 2) Give low sec a fresh sprinkling of high-quality L3 and L4 kill agents, not concentrated in a handful of super-hubs containing 4 to 8, but spread out. The proportion of location agents should be higher than in high sec Empire, to aid with security. 3) Is one of the refineries in M-MD3B still 30% efficient? That always was a perfect example of CCP making stations with good potential worthless. Stop putting crap refineries into low sec. 4) Improve NPC spawns - BCs should be the norm, and give a slight increase to rate. Boost the spawns in neglected 0.0 too (eg Syndicate), to maintain the ISK/hour gap. 5) Complexes need some improvement, 4/10 Serpentis-Phi is a perfect example of something worth doing just once. Also a sprinkling of 5/10 perhaps? 6) Halve sec status penalties. Unpopular, but look at it this way - career pirates will still go outlaw, while more people trying to fight for control of a low sec system don't have to choose between that system and the whole of high sec Empire as a wartime battleground. War decs are not of great assistance when dealing with interlopers. I may have forgotten a few things - it's late. But you get the idea, low sec loses out badly when compared with the relative safety and ISK/hour of high sec Empire, and Alliance 0.0, which except for brief intervals of collapse now offers the same advantages. EDIT: 7) Increase number of belts in low sec systems. A system with 15-30 is an easy sell, a system with fewer than that is worthless if all you have is Jaspet. Logoffs on Fraps
Daddy's Belt Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.20 03:09:00 - [15] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin All because they are in empire doesn't mean they are noobs Except that he SAID they were noobs. I believe him, since his entire problem is that low-sec has nothing but noobs who don't know any better. I'd say that his alliance expects more from him than complaining about ganking noobs in empire. Someone's gonna get a buttwhippin'!
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.20 03:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Rina Shanu I really wish people would start giving low sec a try. After being for a lot of time in low sec, both pirating and carebearing, I know for a fact there is a part of this community living there, having fun, not willingly to change. Yes there are few but there are. People have POSes in low sec, they research bpos, moon mine. There are lots of people in low sec doing 5/10 and 6/10 complexes. There are areas of low sec that have intel channels, where peopel scream "wolf" and take evasion action when pirates fly by. True I wished more would fight, but still. Passing by, ratting a little, running back to empire being chased by a pirate doe not mean you have "experienced" low sec, because that is just a portion of it. But people never try...... I have, and I like 0.0 better. even ec-p8r isn't as bad as low sec.
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 03:18:00 - [17] Easy solution: 1) Remove High sec 2) Ignore the flamefest that ensues 3) Happy ganktastic fun time! (If you woke up breathing today, CONGRATULATIONS!, you get another chance!)
Sovy Kurosei Amarr Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 03:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Cmdr Sy 2) Give low sec a fresh sprinkling of high-quality L3 and L4 kill agents, not concentrated in a handful of super-hubs containing 4 to 8, but spread out. The proportion of location agents should be higher than in high sec Empire, to aid with security. I have to agree with this. All level four agents and upcoming level five agents should be moved to low security space. It will at least make low security have a unique niche going for it. ___________________
Komen Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.01.20 04:06:00 - [19] Edited by: Komen on 20/01/2007 04:04:09 I find it ironic that someone from LV is complaining that due to a high level of predation, the prey has dwindled and moved on to protected areas where it's much more involved to achieve a kill. What Lotka Volterra Means @Patch86 - I think that's a brilliant idea. In another thread I suggested that in order for low-sec to be a draw for the non pew-pew crowd, it would have to have a unique draw, something that neither high-sec nor zero-sec offers. I didn't suggest any specific thing, as I couldn't come up with an idea for anything unique that didn't feel like 'added at a whim' sort of content. Damned if I can remember which thread it was, though. (/me wishes Eve fora had a 'subscribe to thread' feature...) The idea of NPC faction capship spawns...yes. That smacks of just the sort of thing that would attract team-oriented players/corps to low-sec. Edit: grammar ___________________________________ Wielder of the Trout of Doom(tm)! ___________________________________
Corwain Gallente Infinite Innovations	Posted - 2007.01.20 04:14:00 - [20] Uh...your own alliance proves you wrong as I have seen you guys in low sec quite a bit and killed one of M. Corps Enyo pilots with my 2 week alt in a Vexor while he was belt ratting in Crielere. This is within the past week. I said "gf" and he said "No it wasn't, I wasn't set up for PvP". He came back later in a Thorax but by then an anti-pirate corp had shown up about 5 strong in T2 ships so I stayed in my SS. I've got lots of kills when I hunt people in lowsec and have killed up to 6-monthers on a 2 week old character. I don't know why you're having so much trouble. My record for one day was 14 kills. Admittedly still kind of low, but I have to choose targets a bit when I'm on such a limited character. There are lots of people in losec to kill. Keep looking!

Tokra	Posted - 2007.01.20 04:49:00 - [21] I tell you something Bellum. Guys like you are the reason i dont go to low sec anymore. Everytime i was there i was attacked. When i am going to low sec i dont expect to be targeted and shot everytime and from everyone. Sure, it is a PVP game. But this dont mean its a "kill everything you see" game. It is not PVP when only one is shoting. That is called Player killing. You said you killed 20 to 30 ships a day in the past. What kind of ships? How experienced where the pilots and how many SP did they have? Its no fun for these that get shot by someone who has 10x the SP. Image you get killed 20 times a day in a fight you cant even win in your dreams. How long would you go on staying there? There are always two sides.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.01.20 05:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I'm not going to discuss 0.0 here because that's a whole other ballgame: warp bubbles, huge gate camps, 90% of the space is empty, with the other 10% locked down by alliances etc. I like low-sec because it doesn't present these major problems for solo and small gang pvp/pirating. But the thing is, there isn't any incentive for players to live/play in lowsec systems. I've been flying between numerous lowsec pockets, looking for targets of any type, just to see what is out there. What I've experienced is this: 95% of the players I find in local are docked. The other 5% are either at a gate (0km), on a mission (impossible to probe out), or at a deathstar POS mucking about. I think that in Eve players quickly settle into two major groups: those who end up in deep 0.0/alliance space, and those who stick to empire. The more experienced players don't hang around in lowsec when they can just join a corp/alliance that is already in deep 0.0 space and offers much better rewards in terms of minerals and NPCs. The Empire guys just sit and run missions and avoid traveling into lowsec systems whenever possible. Belt piracy is pretty much 100% dead at this point in my opinion. I've been cruising through little pockets of low sec systems with multiple characters, checking belts and stuff and I very rarely come across a ship in a belt, and when I do it's some noob player who's too new to know better. There simply isn't any reason for the experienced or semi-experienced (4-6 month players) players to be in a lowsec belt ratting/mining. I only see mission runners, and those I only see very briefly as they warp off to their mission and then warp back at 0km and instadock. I don't even bother wasting probes on them anymore. With maxed probe strength skills and nearing max probe speed skills, I find about one out of a hundred mission runners I try and probe out. And by the time that I actually scan them down, they've completed the mission and warped back to the station. This game is becoming increasingly polarized with very little in-between the two extremes. I used to be able to get 20-30 kills a day easily, now I'm lucky if I can find one or two, and that's if I fly all over the place scouring system after system looking for targets. Since the introduction of Revelations it has become increasingly easy to avoid almost any fight. Even bubbles don't really matter anymore- just log off. Players have so much time between the time that they know they might be in danger of being attacked and having the attacker warp in on them, it's almost impossible to lock them down before they can warp to a safe spot etc. But getting back to the main point, the real problem is simply a complete lack of population in the belts. Any suggestions? I'm thinking- bigger rats and better ore in the belts for a start. So because you dont have any targets in low sec you feel that CCP have to do something to bring you targets? I dont care really how big rats CCP brings into low sec (unless we start speaking millions each ofcource) I wont set my foot in low sec, unless I have to for a specific reason. And then I go there and leave asap. Its to risky compared to what I can earn. At least for me it is. So untill I eventually join a alliance again, I will be staying in Empire. I dont earn much money there, but I get around. And I have fun. That is what counts for me. I dont find much fun in getting ganked by one of the many gatecamps. So maybe its time for the pirates to start thinking, if they might have themselves to blame - at least partially - that low sec is now getting more and more empty. But self evaluation have never been a popular thing. have it? Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.20 06:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Rina Shanu I really wish people would start giving low sec a try. After being for a lot of time in low sec, both pirating and carebearing, I know for a fact there is a part of this community living there, having fun, not willingly to change. Yes there are few but there are. People have POSes in low sec, they research bpos, moon mine. There are lots of people in low sec doing 5/10 and 6/10 complexes. There are areas of low sec that have intel channels, where peopel scream "wolf" and take evasion action when pirates fly by. True I wished more would fight, but still. Passing by, ratting a little, running back to empire being chased by a pirate doe not mean you have "experienced" low sec, because that is just a portion of it. But people never try...... Nonsense. Low-sec has become depopulated. Wasn't long ago there were plenty of people in low-sec. My mission-running alts lived in low-sec for 2 years. However the risks of low-sec have increased greatly and the rewards have decreased with the continual nerfing of missions. Thus all of those people who used to live in low sec have seen that it's no longer worth it. Too many pirates, too much risk, decreasing rewards. It's CCP's fault, 100%. Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Ice Conch	Posted - 2007.01.20 06:44:00 - [24] 500k solo battleship spawns in low sec, bump the bad 0.0 up a little bit, and add some better ores. Originally by: Fogy Originally by: James 315 Why do people say hi to Aneu? Its like the "Where's Waldo" book.. but "waldo" got his forum access removed.. now he keeps changing costumes
Risien Drogonne	Posted - 2007.01.20 06:48:00 - [25] No amount of rats or ore is going to bring people to low-sec. Why? Because the best varieties are already available in 0.0 and 0.0 is safer by far than low-sec.
Typhis Deterious Lonetrek Intergalactic OnliNe Systems	Posted - 2007.01.20 06:57:00 - [26] I think it is quite humorous the way some folks think that everyone else in this game should conform to their way. "I am supposed to have fun but you aren't playing the way I want so this sucks!" You ate all the food on the table and are now hungry. Whoops! No one wants to be the fish in a barrel for you so you might want to come to terms with it. Low sec = crap risk vs reward and this constant kill-everything-that-moves mentality has flushed your "quarry" to safer areas where they don't have to lose ship after ship and have no fun just so YOU can enjoy yourself. There has to be balance. If you go out and kill 20-30 sad sacks per day (most of them the same folks repeatedly), as you claim, what did you expect would happen?
Forum Troll	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:02:00 - [27] Yes, something needs to be done. Not only for low sec, but 0.0 as well.
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:11:00 - [28] The only way lowsec will become populated is if CONCORD sets up shop. You want lots of targets, head out to 0.0 or start declaring wars. TCSyn is recruiting
Joe	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:20:00 - [29] Originally by: Joe I think if the amount of belts in 0.1-0.4 was increased, an average of say 20-30 belts per system it would promote alot of younger corps and players to populate the systems. I'm sure that many belts would tempt corps to adopting new 'home' systems. 0.1-0.4 should be a normal transitional stage between empire and 0.0 for new players/corps, at the moment i think to many are skipping it, e.g Empire corp grows, developes organised group play, but then thinks its the right time to move out to 0.0/join alliance. Unfortunately I choose to post legitimate concerns and valid arguments in a thread that was inevitably doomed to be petty pvp v carebear v troll flamefest. What a waste of time. Pe0w
Forum Troll	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Erfnam The only way lowsec will become populated is if CONCORD sets up shop. You want lots of targets, head out to 0.0 or start declaring wars. Or remove Concord from Empire all together, or at least from areas without any sort of reward. This gets my vote.

Typhis Deterious Lonetrek Intergalactic OnliNe Systems	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Joe Originally by: Joe I think if the amount of belts in 0.1-0.4 was increased, an average of say 20-30 belts per system it would promote alot of younger corps and players to populate the systems. I'm sure that many belts would tempt corps to adopting new 'home' systems. 0.1-0.4 should be a normal transitional stage between empire and 0.0 for new players/corps, at the moment i think to many are skipping it, e.g Empire corp grows, developes organised group play, but then thinks its the right time to move out to 0.0/join alliance. Unfortunately I choose to post legitimate concerns and valid arguments in a thread that was inevitably doomed to be petty pvp v carebear v troll flamefest. What a waste of time. Mine wasn't a flame so much as calling it like it is. OP says no one goes to low-sec, I enlightened him on why.
Dante Cyberon	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:53:00 - [32] let me get this right, your a pirate, who used to kill over 200 people a week, when back then ther was only about 15k people playing average, and is now COMPLAINING that your systems that you are "Defending" has nothing to defend against? like so many others have said, you suffer from your own doings, or in otherwords, do what Privateers alliance do, randomly dec alliances so you can get hauler kills in high sec,,, bloody lame i say, your the exact reason 0.4-0.1 isnt populated, when someone goes ratting they can maybe pickup 1-2 mill per 40 belt's. then in 2 minutes you guys come in and blow u his ship/pod resulting in alot of loss, massively outwieghing the risk/reward. why dont pirates just sod off and stop whining that "We want this" "We want that", because all CCP seems to do is say "Wish granted" and to those who just said EvE is all about PvP, what in the hell, is mining pvp? is trade pvp ? is mission running pvp? is industry pvp? thats why their is the term PVE!!!!!!!!!! yeah alot of activity is created by PvP, but not 100% is PvP i'm sure i have mentioned this in other forums, if the game was 100% PvP why the hell would we get macro's? screw repopulating low sec, get rid of the macro's first,
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:04:00 - [33] Allow low sec to be controllable, like 00. Boost ores, boost npcs, boost defence... Move the higher isk making missions there, remove the really good ores from empire and missions. I don't pirate, but it's too easy to make isk in empire. You need some risk, and if you think level 4 missions are risk, you are mistaken. -=====-
Torhas Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:07:00 - [34] I think the whole issue could be solved by putting cheap BC spawns in 0.3 and 0.4 systems, and cheap BS spawns (500k, maybe even make a crappier 400k version) in 0.1-0.3 systems. Sanguine public channel: Khanidblood
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:08:00 - [35] To entice people into low sec you need better incentives to get them there. You could increase the bounties on Rats within lowsec. You could increase the size and improve the composition of asteroid belts in low sec. You could increase the respawn rate ( not an issue right now but if we can attract enough miners we need to keep them there). Until such time as the payout for operating in low sec increases to a point that many consider it worthwhile, they will continue to avoid it. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:10:00 - [36] Originally by: MysticNZ Allow low sec to be controllable, like 00. Boost ores, boost npcs, boost defence... Move the higher isk making missions there, remove the really good ores from empire and missions. I don't pirate, but it's too easy to make isk in empire. You need some risk, and if you think level 4 missions are risk, you are mistaken. Nerfing Empire will not increase low sec traffic, it didn't before and it will not in the future it will only cause folks to leave the game. Your other ideas of boosting ore types, size of asteroid belts, payout and difficulty of NPCs are all viable. You could also put new level 4 agents in low sec but I would not remove them from empire. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Betonela Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:49:00 - [37] dude how u dare to say that oh wait u need to get new ppl but u still put dock fee on outpost to join a corp on alliance need to get capital ships but u dont let them to put a POS so they need to refine the minerals on your outpost whit over 10% tax u dont make standing "clue"(only blue for LV) so your allies see them neutral and kill them on gate camp (ops i forget to read the bio where say friend of LV ) and u dont make anything to pay them the destroyed ship`s back and now u come and say "n00bs dont love me" --------- join on New Movement of Market Traders
Typhis Deterious Lonetrek Intergalactic OnliNe Systems	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Betonela dude how u dare to say that oh wait u need to get new ppl but u still put dock fee on outpost to join a corp on alliance need to get capital ships but u dont let them to put a POS so they need to refine the minerals on your outpost whit over 10% tax u dont make standing "clue"(only blue for LV) so your allies see them neutral and kill them on gate camp (ops i forget to read the bio where say friend of LV ) and u dont make anything to pay them the destroyed ship`s back and now u come and say "n00bs dont love me" I'm sorry but... what?
Betonela Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:14:00 - [39] Originally by: Typhis Deterious Originally by: Betonela .... I'm sorry but... what? sarcasm :P he say that 00 is underpopulated but hes alliance put dock fee (aroud 500k per a bs) new corps to join in allaince need capital etc etc etc --------- join on New Movement of Market Traders
Daos Leghki Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:17:00 - [40] An interesting problem is that the firepower a roaming pirate brings is disproportionate to that of the defenders. For example, let's say Joe Pirate shows up in a system in a Vaga. To chase him off you need at least one decent battleship pilot, who we shall call Steve. Now, Steve could be there chasing off Joe, and maybe getting paid 10 mil/week to do so, or he could be out in 0.0 ratting for 10 mil/hour. Which one do you think Steve will do? The fundamental problem of low-sec is that there is not enough incentive to stay. I personally dislike a lot of stuff that alliances do in 0.0, politics and all that junk. But, I can always compliment them on one thing: they make their space safe. No matter what, no matter how they do it, all successful alliances make their space more safe than not. They have the resources and the experience and the ISK. Why can't people do that in low-sec? Because they could be out in 0.0 and making 10 times as much.

Typhis Deterious Lonetrek Intergalactic OnliNe Systems	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:48:00 - [41] Originally by: Betonela Originally by: Typhis Deterious Originally by: Betonela .... I'm sorry but... what? sarcasm :P he say that 00 is underpopulated but hes alliance put dock fee (aroud 500k per a bs) new corps to join in allaince need capital etc etc etc I know I am just being difficult
Soporo	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:49:00 - [42] Boost all LowSec Stations in every way...Services and especially MORE labs and more Medical and better Refining. Boost Belts, Ores, Rats, Courier missions, and something unique. Like maybe a % chance everytime a Roid is popped that something cool/informative/rewarding occurs. Do NOT make this skill based... Lower all tax in Market activity in LowSec systems. Boost the NPC market items here as well. Leave the same or lower the Security hit in LowSec for ship kills, Double the hit for Podding.(random idea) Add a sprinkle of better Agents to every LowSec system. Disallow Motherships in LowSec... Create Mining vessels (or revamp existing ones), particularly Barges, that can actually have a decent tank, a few more Drones, and won't cost billions. Create a hauler between an Industrial and a Blockade Runner. Create a mobile Micro POS or large sized vessel for industrial services. Don't make it insanely expensive. Create a mobile micro POS or large sized vessel that can do limited Shielding, Webbing and whatnot. These vessels cannot be active around Gates or Stations for whatever reason. It's late, my ideas are getting wilder and wilder.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:58:00 - [43] Originally by: MysticNZ Allow low sec to be controllable, like 00. Boost ores, boost npcs, boost defence... Move the higher isk making missions there, remove the really good ores from empire and missions. I don't pirate, but it's too easy to make isk in empire. You need some risk, and if you think level 4 missions are risk, you are mistaken. A) You evidently don't do mission or only the easy one with high rewards; b) the equation risk/reward must consider not only the probability of a loss happening but the value of the loss. If a mission runner loose a 1 billion isk ship every 3 months, is loss is greeater than a PvP player loosing 25 T2 frigates priced 20 millions each in the same period. But every time risk vs reward is called, this is easily forgotten. c) mining best ore, best ship, highest skill: high sec 10 million/hour, 0.0: 100 million/hour. The danger is 10x in 0.0 (alliance space, non ninja mining)? d) ratting and complex here the gain is more than 10x by a big margin, even in low sec. Why the suggested solution is always: "Neerf what I don't like to do, they must be punished" ?
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:01:00 - [44] simple fix 1) move all lv 4 and above to low sec 2) increase worth of ores in low sec 3) increase worth of NPC in low sec 4) move all 4 and above complexes to low sec 5) increase number of belts and stations in low sec 6) incerease the power of the sentries in low sec increase the profits in low sec while reducing them in high sec will then make the risk seem to be worth the reward. RAM is recruiting
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:08:00 - [45] Originally by: dantes inferno simple fix 1) move all lv 4 and above to low sec 2) increase worth of ores in low sec 3) increase worth of NPC in low sec 4) move all 4 and above complexes to low sec 5) increase number of belts and stations in low sec 6) incerease the power of the sentries in low sec increase the profits in low sec while reducing them in high sec will then make the risk seem to be worth the reward. As I stated above, nerfing high sec will not help. Thus your points 1 and 4 will not help. Some would indeed follow them but probably half or more would give up. Your other suggestions are good. You need to make low sec more attractive by increasings its incentives without decreasing/nerfing incentives in Empire. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:19:00 - [46] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 20/01/2007 10:17:24 There have been threads like this for a long, long time without anything being done. I would like low sec to be made more profitable too, but I think ccp wants to encourage players to go to 0.0 instead of low sec. And if so, the larger the reward difference between low sec and 0.0 is, the better. But yes, I agree its a shame that low sec isnt more populated. In 0.0 you get a really hard time playing solo. Its a natural fact of these games that some people prefer to play it solo, because of time restraints or having an anti-social nature. I think one of the reasons we have so many mission runners in high sec is simply because its one of the only ways to play the game if you are solo and have an hour to play. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:41:00 - [47] Edited by: Faith Black on 20/01/2007 10:37:39 Think factional warfare will bring more people to low sec. Btw. far off the main routes the situation is not that bad. There are corps living there and working together and pirates are rare. I've been doing missions in low sec for some time undesturbed there in different places and saw corps ratting and mining. They just don't do it at the main routes and in highly populated regions. About dark ochre in low. sec.: I think that would be a bit much. At least a few month ago it was the 2nd most profitable ore in some regions, a bit worse than arkanor, but better than gneiss, mercoxit and the other stuff that is there. ------ Who wants to be Caldari, if he could be 1337 instead ? Minnie 4tw ! ^^
Kazah'dur Vorlonis	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Twilight Moon Easy solution: 1) Remove High sec 2) Ignore the flamefest that ensues 3) Happy ganktastic fun time! Only thing that would be a solution is overpopulation, like 90% of players would quit :P
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:15:00 - [49] 1. I dont think low-sec space ever had a population worth speaking of. In three years of play, low sec was always no mans land. 2. If you want people to come out to low sec...then your going to have a NPC police force out there. 3. This thread falls in with the thousand other threads.."I cant make any money ganking people, so CCP has to make my area richer so I can make money!" 4. I am tired of these threads where the posters are only looking for means to make more isk. Low security space was never ment for people to live in, or try to claim. Its always ment to be the grey area between Empire and 0.0 space. Stop trying to get it redone to a money making area. If you aint noticed...CCP has a habit of not paying attention to these threads for a reason..... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Winters Chill Amarr Scavenger Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:29:00 - [50] Edited by: Winters Chill on 20/01/2007 11:27:49 I think hidden space "holes" and stargates are the answer, but thats just me. There nothing more annoying than realising that all the closest gates to 0.0 are camped with bubbles.

Gaia's Wrath	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:32:00 - [51] Ok first off it is still easy to get 20 to 30 kills a day in 0.0 no problem there. Just roam the 1 route into any alliance region (generally about 1 or 2 main routes in a region). You can get kills just don't run the same region everyday you will start running into alliance blobs. Now if you really want to populate 0.0, bring in solar system sov and Constellation sov. With the option of deploying gate guns. (guns function is to pervent gate camps not just pew pew everyone.) Also a penalty for placing guns around a gate ie 1 gun at a gate cause you to warp in at 5 km when you warp to 0. Add to that the ability to do fiancial damage to an outpost. (you can lock the outpost shoot it but not physically damage it, but rather it costs the holding corp isks). The game truly needs some sort of mechanism that will motivate people to undock and fight not just dock and wait for hostiles to leave. I would like to see an addition to interdictors. The abliity to drop some sort of irridation bubble. To tag ships so a gang can warp to an irridated ship. So when people run off they better run off because they can be easily chased. So in general: 1)Increased granularity to owning territory. Motives corps to make a claim in 0.0 space. Regions are to big for a single owner. 2)Fiancial penalties if you don't care to truely defend what is yours. 3)Force a better fight or flight scenario.
Zana Kito	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:34:00 - [52] This is a very interesting debate, and i think solutions to solving it isn't easy to come by. I've played eve a bit back in 2004, started in empire, mined, missioned, traded.. after awhile, got to low sec for bigger rewards. Kept getting into fights i wasn't looking for. i.e back then i didnt have warp to 0, or insta bookmarks. Sure, i earned a bit more than empire but the risk isnt worth it. Go into a 0.0 alliance with allies all around. It felt like empire, especially in deep systems that rarely ever get the lone pirates visiting. Isk income is insane for almost no risk. Looking at this situation for players; 1. you can either make decent isk in empire for no risk 2. make slightly better isk for huge risks in low sec 3. make a huge amount of isk for almost no risk in 0.0 You can see why people don't bother going to low sec. How do you change this? You won't solve it by; 1. Giving low sec better ores. Why? The risk is much higer, but there's still better ores in 0.0 2. Giving low sec better npc spawns. Same reason as 1. -------------- So far, restricting L5 agents in low sec only is the best idea. - These missions must offer great rewards (T2 BPCs is a good start and a great incentive for small corps). - Make the missions truely for group play, i.e. the npc gives out that mission, you can share to several people in your gang so they also get the bonuses. - Remove the missions away from deadspace. Make them occur nearby planets. None of the safe hidding in deadspace. If you are here for the uber rewards then be prepared to defend yourself and your corp mates. - Allow decent salvage drop rates for T2 salvage components from the mission npcs. What will happen is a lot of small corps see this as the next expansion of their empire activities, i.e. mission running, salvaging, manufacturing. But it offers great incentives with t2 bpc rewards, t2 salvage components. After the free for all fest pvp that occur, these corps will agree to NAP with each other so most of the day-to-day activities is somewhat peaceful especially with corp/alliance pvp patrols. But it also allow free movement for pirate gank squad or solo pvpers to have their fun as well. Win win situation.
Fergus Runkle	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:53:00 - [53] I used to base out of low sec quite a bit, mine, rat, mission. Now I don't go there at all. Its simply no fun for me anymore. Originally by: Tokra I tell you something Bellum. Guys like you are the reason i dont go to low sec anymore. Everytime i was there i was attacked. When i am going to low sec i dont expect to be targeted and shot everytime and from everyone. Sure, it is a PVP game. But this dont mean its a "kill everything you see" game. It is not PVP when only one is shoting. That is called Player killing. You said you killed 20 to 30 ships a day in the past. What kind of ships? How experienced where the pilots and how many SP did they have? Its no fun for these that get shot by someone who has 10x the SP. Image you get killed 20 times a day in a fight you cant even win in your dreams. How long would you go on staying there? There are always two sides. Says all there needs to be said really. and Originally by: dantes inferno simple fix 1) move all lv 4 and above to low sec 2) increase worth of ores in low sec 3) increase worth of NPC in low sec 4) move all 4 and above complexes to low sec 5) increase number of belts and stations in low sec 6) incerease the power of the sentries in low sec increase the profits in low sec while reducing them in high sec will then make the risk seem to be worth the reward. None of that would attract me to low sec, not while there are the high numbers of people like the OP around. The content (or lack of it) is not why low sec is unoccupied. The reason low sec is unoccupied is that the number of predators is too high for the prey to find it appealing. You can put all the shiny you want in low sec, whilst people like the OP are there you will not attract numbers.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:08:00 - [54] Why not simply leave it the way it is??? It have been like this now for soon... 4 years, and it have worked nicely till now! Also, a NGE like which where so fatal for SWG, dont neccesary mean to dumb down the game (They did that in SWG though) It can also mean to make it so unplayable for lot of people that they start leaving. Remember, NGE had supporterts too in SWG. They where just in minority. I think you guys and gals should be happy with EVE the way it is! It works! If you want more targets, go to 0.0 or empire and wardecc someone. That is a way to do pirating too. But to ask for such radical changes in EVE will definitely not be for the good of the game! Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:13:00 - [55] Edited by: Faith Black on 20/01/2007 12:13:36 Originally by: Gaia's Wrath Now if you really want to populate 0.0, bring in solar system sov and Constellation sov. With the option of deploying gate guns. (guns function is to pervent gate camps not just pew pew everyone.) Also a penalty for placing guns around a gate ie 1 gun at a gate cause you to warp in at 5 km when you warp to 0. ... 1)Increased granularity to owning territory. Motives corps to make a claim in 0.0 space. Regions are to big for a single owner. Somehow I doubt that we will see an increased granularity. The main thing that limits the power of big alliances is their inability to be everywhere at the same time. They can't police/secure large territory 23/7. Constellation sovereignty and gate guns are fully in their interest, because they still have the power to tear everything down, but it helps them to keep control, while their military is not present. My prediction is that the big alliances decide, who gets a constellation and is allowed to build up their defenses. If a small alliance made an attempt to become independent, following their own agenda, big alliances X or Coalition Y would come, tear it down and replace them with a more loyal group that would be allowed to build up something there. This tendency to hug together more and more in growing alliances and coaltions with more and more NAPs is the most negative development in EVE imho. And in the middle of those NAP blobs sits at least one big alliance, who pulls the strings. Currently the only space that allows smaller entities to stay independent and follow their own politics and standings is 0.0 with npc stations. /edit I wrote the most negative development. That was wrong. The most negative development is an influx of carebears ofc, who whine against unconsentual pvp and such. ------ Who wants to be Caldari, if he could be 1337 instead ? Minnie 4tw ! ^^
Felix Dzerzhinsky Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:22:00 - [56] I said this would happen when warp to 0 was being proposed - that low sec would become dead. The traders all said warp to 0 was good for selling things - but they do realize who is buying their stuff. The miners wanted it beccause it provided security against pirates - but they go to 0.0 unprepared becuase of the easy time they have in low sec. Pirates are what made low sec what it was. These days, shooting someone in low sec, considering the sec hit and the near impossibility of finding someone to come out (and when they do, you suspect its a trap - which it more likely then not is) adds up to - why hunt in low sec at all. So low sec is just a buffer zone you have to pass through in order to get to 0.0 or to empire - its just dead space.
Adunh Slavy Chaos Faction	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:24:00 - [57] Increasing rewards is not going to encourage anyone into low sec over the long run. All that will happen is a few people will try it, they will get blown up by "pirates", and we'll be right back where we started. Originally by: Cmdr Sy 6) Halve sec status penalties. ... Chaning the rules of enagement will help. I propose allowing positive sec status players to shoot at negative sec status players with out a loss of sec status. Nothing more complicated than that. Lots of us high sec status people like the pew-pew, but we're in many ways forced to allow someone else to take the first shot. Also, If someone shoots at my corp mate, I have also have to take a sec status hit to defend/help him. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Concord, nor factional navies, patrol low sec, that's why it is low sec duh, but the players them selves can do it if given the "go ahead" by concord and the faction. Think of it as a letter of marquee. Low sec should be the half-way between "safe" (.5 and up) and "lawless" (0.0) but it isn't. It's this sort of backwards security space and is ruled by "pirates" and not representatives (high sec players) of the factions that control the space. -AS
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:32:00 - [58] Originally by: Faith Black My prediction is that the big alliances decide, who gets a constellation and is allowed to build up their defenses. If a small alliance made an attempt to become independent, following their own agenda, big alliances X or Coalition Y would come, tear it down and replace them with a more loyal group that would be allowed to build up something there. This tendency to hug together more and more in growing alliances and coaltions with more and more NAPs is the most negative development in EVE imho. And in the middle of those NAP blobs sits at least one big alliance, who pulls the strings. That is the path all human societies take. It is not the game that generates that phenomenon, it is the cultural baggage that we bring with us. Originally by: Faith Black Currently the only space that allows smaller entities to stay independent and follow their own politics and standings is 0.0 with npc stations. Agreed, but even this is often not the case. Curse, Geminate and Great Wildlands are three examples I could name of regions which though containing NPC stations, have been occupied by hegemonic entities for extended periods of time in the past. Syndicate has remained unconquerable, but that's largely because the rewards are not worth the time of any potential conqueror. Across the map, risk/reward is skewed. You have something like this: High sec Empire: Low risk, moderate reward Low sec Empire: High risk, moderate reward Alliance 0.0: Moderate risk, high reward If you want steady ISK for low risk, high sec is the place. If you want obscene and ostentatious wealth at the expense of slightly higher risk, go to the land of purple blobs. But in low sec, you have all the risk of unclaimed 0.0 with the reward of a high sec transit system. If we accept the traditional idea that low sec Empire should be a buffer between Alliance and Empire carebears, then we must accept that the proper name for that is "no-man's land". And the thing about a no-man's land is, no-one stays there to fashion a society and set up economic activity. Logoffs on Fraps
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:42:00 - [59] Originally by: Zana Kito So far, restricting L5 agents in low sec only is the best idea. ..... - Make the missions truely for group play, i.e. the npc gives out that mission, you can share to several people in your gang so they also get the bonuses. .... Your suggestion aren't bad, but intill the NPC AI isn't made better,a level 5 group mission seem the NPC version of the blob vs blob battles. Enter room, PC group call primary NPC group aggro against 1 target. Fire till primary or aggroed target drop. Repeat. Add that NPC suffer less for lag, pirates wouldn't be targeted. So, if based on the current mission engine, it will be unplayable, particulary in a non deadspace area as you suggest. The end result would be the pirate getting the big rewards 2/3 of the time or the need to lock the system to make a mission. If making a symilar mission require 5 BS as mission running group and 2 BS and 3 T2 frigates to protect the mission runners from a pirate gang, all the small corporations are out of the picture. It could work if the big reward is the mission reward, not something dropped by the enemyes. So it can be lost failing the mission, but not looted by someone busting the mission. With that option it can be possible even get some pact with the local pirates giving them a fraction of the rewars for a safe conduct during the mission. (Not that I think most pirates will accept).
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:45:00 - [60] The problem is that CCP have done too good a job of introducing risk and fear into the game. The thing that makes Eve so good is the very thing that the OP is suffering from. What we are seeing in Eve is the truth about the human psyche. Most people don't want to fight and are happy to amble their way through life. The only thing that can be done to get more people into low-sec is to reduce the consequences of loss. IOW turn Eve into a run of the mill safe, fluffy MMORPG where there are no serious consequences to your actions. Now before I get flamed I want to make it clear that I don't support that move. It would destroy Eve and I'd hate it. Unfortunately that is the only way you're going to change the attacker/victim ratio of the game. People calling for Empire to be nerfed to force players into low sec need to get a clue. Most humans don't want to suffer those kind of losses and you're never going to change them. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless

Jackkal Order of Melekel	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:46:00 - [61] The fact is the only way you will get more people to 0.0 is remove the pvp'ers. you cant force someone to pvp thats the only reason everyone comes up with these ideals to push people to 0.0. Use ASCN for a example they were primarly into undustry (carebear). Thet pretty much left everyone alone. Then the bullies of Eve got bored and said hey more pvp targets. Why do people want to go to 0.0 just to see thier hard work destroyed or taken over. Moving agents to low sec moving ore to low sec won't work all it will do is cause more people to leave. Not everyone wants to join a allience and have to deal with all the politics. no if ccp had a low sec nuetral zone where pvp was not allowed i bet it would look like jita. So all the crying pvp'er need to get over it.
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:50:00 - [62] Edited by: Tanis Bastar on 20/01/2007 12:46:56 I've been living in lo-sec for some time and am generally happy there. The one comment I have is that there does not seem to be any reason for lo-sec belt rats to exist. I hate running missions and for some time spent a lot of time ratting in lo-sec. While the rat bounties are crap, every now and then I'd get faction loot worth 20-50 million. Salvage also was not very worthwhile. Overall, not very lucrative. I have since started running missions to build up standing, and what a difference! As compared to lo-sec ratting, I make much more money, the salvage is much better (more variety, many more wrecks), and I get standing. I think that EVE should not force people into playing in particular ways, but as it stands now, there is absolutely no reason to choose ratting over missions in lo-sec, and it should be no surprise that the belts are completely empty. I'm not sure how to fix this--increasing the drop rate of faction loot, for example, would only make it worth less. But maybe at least give faction standing increases, similar to security rating increases, for ratting in the faction's area?
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:51:00 - [63] The old ore distribution ftw - 0.2 and 0.1 had Gneiss, 0.0 had Dark Ochre in most systems and Crockite and Bistot were a bit more common, too. The current system is predictable, boring and unimaginative. I still don't get why it was ever introduced - to make people go out to deep 0.0? Looks like it didn't really work, so revert it :P Now recruiting!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.20 13:01:00 - [64] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/01/2007 13:00:43 OK, let's try something radical and see the replyes: Currently. High sec you fire on a ship CONCORD came and blow you Low sec CONCORD don't came 0.0 alliances can get soveregnity. I would be possible to change to: High sec you fire on a ship CONCORD came and blow you Low sec CONCORD don't came if you fire against a ship, can, ecc, BUT if you fire against a POD CONCORD will came and kill your ship and all the ship that have fired on the ship that spawned the pod in the last 5 minutes. 0.0 alliances can get soveregnity. The only change would be in low se. Most of us can accept risking the ship, but we don't like to risk the life of the character (and the implants), even if it is only some bit of data. This will moderate the loss, without robbing the pirates of the loot they could get. I have lost some ship to pirates and warring corporations. And the ship loss, even when it is an hard blow to my finances, in not a thing I regret much. But begin pod killed for non gain on the other party and no reason (like a war), is sometime I dislike much.
The Candidate	Posted - 2007.01.20 13:03:00 - [65] Edited by: The Candidate on 20/01/2007 13:00:14
Rorix Whitecloud Caldari Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.01.20 13:04:00 - [66] For the people advocating a simple boost in reward for things (ores, missions, rats, etc) in low sec, i would like to tell you that this would not help your current situation. Not in the long run at least. The reason is... well, lets assume you get what you want, and low sec gets a small boost in rewards. What will happen is that, at first, there will be a surge of people coming back to mine/rat/run missions. Then, there will be a surge of pirates, feeding on these newcomers. The pirate population will rise as long as there are targets. Soon after that, the people that came because of the new rewards will leave, because there are so many pirates that low sec becomes not worth it again. Now finally, you'll have exactly the same problem you have now: an under-populated low sec. For an alternative way to repopulate low sec that does not simply depend on increasing low sec rewards, clicky the link in my sig :) Repopulate Low Security! Goal: To blaster-fit every Caldari ship with a gun slot! :D
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.20 13:14:00 - [67] Originally by: Andrue People calling for Empire to be nerfed to force players into low sec need to get a clue. Most humans don't want to suffer those kind of losses and you're never going to change them. I can see that, and it is not what I propose. I suggest a reward boost for low sec not accompanied by a corresponding nerf to high sec. I have known a lot of carebears who really do play eve for the high-sec sandbox alone, who would cancel their accounts and move on if their preferred style of gameplay was significantly impeded by changes to the environment. However, equally, I see a lot of players trying out low sec and coming to the conclusion that the sparse content is not worth the effort. Then they either go to the safety of alliance space, hopping between alliances during times of periodic collapse, or stay in high sec and try to build the community they want there. In the latter case, such people get bored, drift apart and turn inactive. I think there is an untapped resource of players out there, willing to watch each others' backs in a more risky environment, taking advantage of that need to cooperate to strengthen team bonds. And it is not the pirates that are the problem, it is the fact that low security space has too little actual game content for people to do anything meaningful. And don't talk to me about the untapped resource of moons. A POS is not primary content for small corps, it is something that runs in the background while players run missions (for agents which are not there) or hunt NPCs (which spawn once per hour) in a system with half a dozen belts containing Jaspet and a station with half a dozen services. Logoffs on Fraps
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.01.20 15:48:00 - [68] Originally by: Twilight Moon Easy solution: 1) Remove High sec 2) Ignore the flamefest that ensues 3) Happy ganktastic fun time! 4. bankrupt, sold to soe.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.20 15:49:00 - [69] I would like something similar to the sovereignty. For the sake of confusion lets call the low-sec version - autonomy . You gain Autonomy the say way you gain sovereignty. Bonus would be different not less. 10% less fuel needed versus the current 20% 20% increase to the bounties on rats( or give the low-sec system 0.1 rats) 10% increasing on mining yield of high end ore, and 30% increase of low-end ore. (yes this would help us mine trit) the 1/2 sale's tax of items sold in station or facilities used goes into the corp/alliance coffers. Or even better, make it so no alliance make hold a low-sec system, it has to be a corp without an alliance. ----------- Management and Leadership
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.20 16:31:00 - [70] Originally by: Venkul Mul High sec you fire on a ship CONCORD came and blow you hehe, if only

Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:37:00 - [71] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Simply the majority of people in Empire don't want to pew pew at each other all day. They don't want to be ganked, hunted down, lose ships and fittings and get their factions borked because of someone else's desire to shoot something. Most of them don't care if you want to shoot at someone, but they don't want to be the targets hence will stay away. Simply they feel the risk of losing ships to pirates too high to exceed the potential gain. Pirates have done their job too well; now they are paying the price for that success in the loss of targets... Finally! Someone who understands. Now, several people will probably propose ways to FORCE people to come to lo-sec...
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:40:00 - [72] Originally by: Chimu Quien Now, several people will probably propose ways to FORCE people to come to lo-sec... Don't give a damn about them. More concerned about the fact that on and off over the past two and a half years I have given it a go and found it to be crap. You know it's broken when 0.0 reward is easier. Logoffs on Fraps
Solahn Merav	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:40:00 - [73] As a genuine carebear, these are my concerns with going into low sec. 1. Sitting duck at gates. 2. Sitting duck at asteroid belts. 3. Paying for security doesn't work as I'm the first target and I pop like a balloon. In addition, ore/ratting in low sec isn't much better than in empire. Some ideas to address these concerns. 1. Remove local from low sec. There is no reason that a pirate should know I jumped into a system, just as much as I shouldn't know he is there either. 2. Introduce the concept of gate synchronization problems in low sec which warps you to a random spot in system, not to a gate like it is now. To leave the system you must still travel to a gate a jump like normal. This takes away the sitting duck issue at gates which is number one on my list and many others. 3. Random asteroid belts in low sec. Mining class ships have built in scanners so they can find them no problem. Non-mining class ships have to fit restrictive modules to accomplish the same ability. This helps with the sitting duck at belts issue. If you want to find me, you have to use probes or gimp yourself. 4. Add a module that allows a protective ship to actually surround you with their shields. For instance, a raven could envelope my barge with it's shields. To kill me, you have to kill him first. While under this protection, my ship can't warp. 5. Introduce random npc fleet spawns that could be probed by ratters. These fleets would replace the usual belt spawns and would be composed of ships found in level 3-4 missions. If you found such a fleet, you could have it to yourself, you could have another player jump in and attack it as well, or another player could jump in and attack you then kill off the spawn. The biggest obstacle is overcoming the belief I will be ganked the minute I step foot into low sec. Make me feel like I have a chance and I would begin to weigh the risk/reward, but until then, I stay in empire.
Nastratu Minmatar Serefon Creatin	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:57:00 - [74] I agree with other posters that the risk vs. reward in low sec is very much tipped to the side of risk now. And most people do not like taking risks that they do not think are worth it. Before Revelations, people used to rat in ships fitted out with warp core stabilizers. Now with the WCS nerf, that has become impossible. The nerf was introduced to keep people running away from a fight if they engage because that is just lame. But that's exactly what ratters want: to run away from pvp if confronted. Because more often than not they lose their ships in pvp encounters. This option was taken away from them. As a result, people were discouraged from ratting in low sec; low sec population has dropped. These ratters would rather run lvl 2-3 mission in high sec now than venture to low sec. It just became too risky while the reward stayed same. The scanner was also nerfed so you can no longer rat as efficiently by scanning out nice and special spawns. The reward of low sec needs to be bolstered. As a pirate, you want people in the belts, not docked or running missions. To put people into belts, you need to give them some really good incentives for being there to counter the increased risk. The incentive that carebears are looking for is ISK. The more ISK you can make per hour, the faster you can buy that Navy Raven to run missions or start collecting those faction frigs in your hangar. So there needs to be more ISK coming out of being in low sec belts. I don't think boosting the number of belts or refinery efficiency will quite do that. For ratters, consider making rats drop some very good items more often. Someone gets a 25 mil implant from rats a few times, he goes brags to his buddies about it, his buddies start coming out to low sec belts. Make low sec rats drop a wide variety of expensive and rare items more frequently. I know that this is what special spawns are for, but right now finding one happens so very rarely, especially with the scanner nerf, that people don't even try for it. Also, I thought that it would be very nice to have 0.0 ores randomly spawn in low sec. And I don't mean in hidden belts that you have to use probes for, as quite a few people, especially younger players, can't use launcher and probes or can't use them well. Right now you need a system with very low true security for 0.0 ores to spawn there. As a result, very few systems have this ore, making it easy for some large alliance to usurp the area completely. Unless you are one of their members, you don't ever get to see this ore. How about making some of that 0.0 ore spawn in low sec belts? Spawn rarely just like special spawns do. I am sure that chances of finding 2-3 rocks of Arkonor here or there would attract quite a few miners to browse low sec.
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2007.01.20 18:05:00 - [75] Edited by: ceaon on 20/01/2007 18:02:38 dont need to change EvE take a look is YOUR fault yes your alliance want to get more more and more systems u have to make like IAC get over 1300 ppl on a constellation is the only way until u get Quote: Constellation Sovereignty The next step in world domination. Often used as the example of required investment of an alliance to justify advanced territory features such as gate control and solar system defenses. and more many of 0.0 are no n00b friendly u are "burning" your brains whit "what need to be done to get ppl out from empire and come to 0.0?" take next point of view " what i need to make to get some ppl from empire and come down here on 0,0 ? " ask your self that and al stuff will be solved + @@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.20 18:06:00 - [76] I would like to see a shield spreading module implemented to protect miners in lowsec to be honest so atleast you HAVE to go through the protection first before popping the barge Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.20 18:54:00 - [77] Originally by: Solahn Merav As a genuine carebear, these are my concerns with going into low sec. 1. Sitting duck at gates. 2. Sitting duck at asteroid belts. ...The biggest obstacle is overcoming the belief I will be ganked the minute I step foot into low sec. Make me feel like I have a chance and I would begin to weigh the risk/reward, but until then, I stay in empire. Yeah, GETTING there is the problem. To me, it's pointless to even try. I don't pay my subscription just to provide targets for the no-life types who have nothing to do but sit by a gate for hours. Somebody mentioned a warp stab nerf. Since I don't have any need for warp stabs, I'm not sure what the nerf was. My understanding is that warp stabs can cancel out warp scramblers. Has that changed?
Eralus	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:12:00 - [78] This is easy. Do NOT change the QUALITY of individual items in low-sec. DO increase the DENSITY of what is already there. When there are more stations, more systems with complexes/exploration sites/quality moons/belts/etc, then there are more places to get rewards. More places to get rewards, lower chance that at any given place you run into pirates. I'd also suggest that the combat sec penalty get reworked a bit - you attack anyone, their whole gang/corp can attack you and your gang/corp for 15 minutes without a sec hit. That will make it easier for teams to defend themselves. I think that's one big difference between 0.0 and low-sec, the 'rules' of low-sec make it harder to defend yourself. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Hasek Raines	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:30:00 - [79] Edited by: Hasek Raines on 20/01/2007 19:34:11 Edited by: Hasek Raines on 20/01/2007 19:28:32 I agree with the OP in that I think something should be done to make low sec more viable. Not so pirates can have more targets but so that part of the game is more viable and interesting. I think boosts to Low sec could help a little bit but there is going to also have to be some sort of new or different game mechanic implemented before the area really interests people. One other thing. What is it with these tard carebears in this thread who come to flame the OP with their weak and tired "See what you get for being a Pirate!!" responses. The OP did not even suggest a nerf to Empire and yet, the morons flocked to this thread in droves like their way of life is being threatened. Perhaps they see threads like this as an opportunity to "stick it" to the pirates since they can't do it in the game. Just shut up and go back to your lvl 3 missions because this topic doesn't really concern you. Whether or not the OP just wants more targets is irrelevant. His post is correct and Low sec needs boosting. With the way EvE's population is growing, those low sec systems could be useful for spreading some of the populations out. Not everyone wants to go to 0.0 and be part of a big alliance and not everyone wants to play in High Sec where the content is rather sparse. A "middle ground" would be a good thing for this game imo.
Alaric Rurk	Posted - 2007.01.20 21:59:00 - [80] Edited by: Alaric Rurk on 20/01/2007 21:56:27 Originally by: Twilight Moon Easy solution: 1) Remove High sec 2) Ignore the flamefest that ensues 3) Happy ganktastic fun time! Actually: 3) Happy ganktastic fun time for a few diminishing days. Many quit EVE once they discover they can't even undock without being blown out of the sky. 4) Unhappy Twilight moon soon complaining she can't find any easy targets in all of Empire space.

Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 23:42:00 - [81] Originally by: Komen @Patch86 - I think that's a brilliant idea. In another thread I suggested that in order for low-sec to be a draw for the non pew-pew crowd, it would have to have a unique draw, something that neither high-sec nor zero-sec offers. I didn't suggest any specific thing, as I couldn't come up with an idea for anything unique that didn't feel like 'added at a whim' sort of content. Damned if I can remember which thread it was, though. (/me wishes Eve fora had a 'subscribe to thread' feature...) The idea of NPC faction capship spawns...yes. That smacks of just the sort of thing that would attract team-oriented players/corps to low-sec. Glad someone likes it I figure it won't change the dynamics of wealth (that 0.0 is more valuable) too much, but it will provide a new warpable-location for players to "meet", and give low-sec a "something" of its own to bring to the table. Besides, its about time pirates showed us their capitals........ As it stands at the moment, there just isn't any point of players being in low sec, and even if they are, the only places they tend to meet is at the gates. If they randomly spawn, roving around, it'll also act as a sort of exploration, albeit one not requiring probes. Futhermore, it'll cause alliances a few heart attacks when one spawns in their territory -----------------------------------------------
Aayan Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.01.20 23:53:00 - [82] Okay so like the millionth "populate low-sec" thread in a month... -Steve - B E A G L E C O R P -
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.21 00:51:00 - [83] Originally by: Nastratu For ratters, consider making rats drop some very good items more often. Someone gets a 25 mil implant from rats a few times, he goes brags to his buddies about it, his buddies start coming out to low sec belts. Make low sec rats drop a wide variety of expensive and rare items more frequently. But then the items won't be expensive and rare anymore. This was also my initial thought, but long-term I don't think it works. I think people just have to have some reason to be in lo-sec. Making it easier to have a POS in 0.4 (no standing or charters) and maybe allowing moon mining in 0.4 might help just by increasing the activity level a bit, although POS are not going to generate much traffic.
Jaguar Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2007.01.21 02:18:00 - [84] you want more players in low sec ,great have ccp remove the sec standing loss i'll take if i kill a pirate that has a low sec standing or bounty on him, why should a player suffer sec standing losses for killing a low sec standing pirate, he is an outlaw. anyone with a low sec standing and or having a bounty on him, should be shot on sight anywhere in game without concord interfering. it's just wrong that an outlaw can fly down main street in high sec. low sec in empty because even the bounty hunter will suffer a sec standing loss by kiling a pirate. hence, the bounty hunter then looks the same as a pirate, he has a low sec standing or bounty on him. so, not even a safe space corp will take on the low sec pirates because of this.everyone talks about what it should be compaired to real life. eve is so unbalanced in favor of pirates it not funny. and you wonder why empire low sec in empty.
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.21 02:43:00 - [85] Originally by: Jaguar Dragon you want more players in low sec ,great have ccp remove the sec standing loss i'll take if i kill a pirate that has a low sec standing or bounty on him, There it is. Even if you're organized and skilled and trained, most carebears are unwilling to engage in PvP because of sec loss. There's no way to get that back without hours and hours of ratting, which miners don't do. So the teams that could populate low-sec and protect their miners there are unable to do so because they won't take the sec hit to kill pirates that haven't already gotten a flag. Pirates love to taunt and mock the carebears that won't fight them, and it wears you out. You can't live n low-sec without either spending a lot of time ratting in 0.0 or being an outlaw after a month. My poor hauling alt has been at -1.0 sec for almost a year because I helped kill an Ishtar pilot that had been ganking newbies in a system every day for a week. A year of mining and hauling and building and trading and sec status never goes up, because I didn't kill the thousands and thousands of NPC spaceships that it would take to reset my security status. That is unmitigated bullcrap.
AvatarADV	Posted - 2007.01.21 02:51:00 - [86] That's actually an excellent point. In several ways, low-sec space is the worst of both worlds - you don't have the police protection you get in high-sec, but you can't engage targets on your own terms without losing security rating. Small wonder that the only people left are the ones that don't mind losing their sec rating...
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.21 04:19:00 - [87] Originally by: Neon Genesis Originally by: Erfnam The only way lowsec will become populated is if CONCORD sets up shop. You want lots of targets, head out to 0.0 or start declaring wars. So make low sec into high sec? This is an awful, awful idea. Awful. That is an awful idea, which is why I didn't propose it. Low sec space is meant to be some what lawless. My statement was about how many players will not move to low sec regardless of the added rewards, since the risk will be excessive. While this is a pvp game, ship combat is not the only form of pvp. Players stay in empire because that allows them to play the aspects of the game that they enjoy and avoid the aspects that they wish to avoid. TCSyn is recruiting
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.21 04:41:00 - [88] Originally by: Erfnam Originally by: Neon Genesis Originally by: Erfnam The only way lowsec will become populated is if CONCORD sets up shop. You want lots of targets, head out to 0.0 or start declaring wars. So make low sec into high sec? This is an awful, awful idea. Awful. That is an awful idea, which is why I didn't propose it. Low sec space is meant to be some what lawless. My statement was about how many players will not move to low sec regardless of the added rewards, since the risk will be excessive. While this is a pvp game, ship combat is not the only form of pvp. Players stay in empire because that allows them to play the aspects of the game that they enjoy and avoid the aspects that they wish to avoid. I agree its an awful idea and I am a carebear player. But its also about the closest thing to being accurate that could happen. What happens when a civilization gets crowded? They move to less congested areas. They get attacked by the residents there, killed, forced back, etc. They scream to their governments, who in return send in the army, then police forces and "civilize" the problem areas. The EvE world is static. For 100 years of peace between the major 4 powers and guess what? No more empire space. The teeming masses would be crying and yelling to their governments to civilize lowsec so they had somewhere to go. And governments, being what they are, would ablige and expand putting detachments into problem areas. CCP keeps putting new unexplored areas into 0.0, but in actuality Empire should be slowly absorbing LoSec also until it ceased to exist. Then they would be annexing 0.0 areas, claiming soverenity over that or declaring war on the alliances that controlled them. Not that it would make a good game, LoSec serves a play-style that is needed and 0.0 serves another. But next time CCP has random jump gates come online, maybe they should be claimed by the existing powers to give the 75% of the population somewhere to expand into. Doesn't help with .1-.4 space though, as it is there isn't any options that could convince the majority of players to go there, short of destroying how it works and the play-style it supports. <-----------> MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests.... LowSec != NoSec
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.21 06:21:00 - [89] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby snip Excellent discussion there, but the backstory and ongoing storyline puts a different spin on it - the dominant civilizing force in EVE is the capsuleer community. We are in the ascendant, spreading outwards from the overcrowing of Empire, while the established Empires weaken, grow decadent and squander their remaining resources on a new round of conflict and factional infighting. This direction was effectively announced in the news items accompanying the Cold War expansion, if anyone remembers the stories that far back. So the facts on the ground are actually consistent with the dynamics you decribe - we are casting aside the citizenship of our respective Empires, leaving them behind to build new civilisations in 0.0. And indeed, with all the tools at our disposal, we have achieved the feat of making Alliance 0.0 as safe to its citizens as Empire space. The interesting thing is however, in low sec Empire we should be seeing the reverse of what you suggest, the influence of dying Empires always weakening far from the centre! The boundaries of Empire space should be in retreat, not expanding, for it is Alliance 0.0 that is the new dominant social institution in the EVE story. But since we lack the tools to claim sovereignty of low sec Empire, it has remained static as you say. And not just the trivial matter of politics, more importantly in terms of gameplay content too. Logoffs on Fraps
Cute SpyGirl	Posted - 2007.01.21 07:37:00 - [90] The same people that flame me on a similiar topic, "The Fundamental Flaws of EvE" is now supporting BELLUM's idea. The bottom line is this, it does not matter what we (carebearers) say or do--PvPers just do not like us. Why do want us to go to low sec, so you can shoot us? If CCP gives carebearers more time to grow with better protection in high sec, maybe, we will venture out of high sec and NPC corp. I dont want to change this game, but I don't have to play your gaming style.

Motoh	Posted - 2007.01.21 08:17:00 - [91] Even if not a straight removal of security hits, why not a scaled security hit? IE something like (System Security)*(Player security rating+constant)= sec hit. This would mean higher security systems would result in a bigger sec hit, lower, lesser, but play the target's security rating into it, IE a high negative rating would be a miniscule hit where a high sec rating would be a more significant loss, truly spreading out the pirates and anti-pirates? ~M, probably making an idiot of himself posting this.
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2007.01.21 08:28:00 - [92] Motoh, not bat, but then even the reverse should be true: security gains should be better if you gain then in higher sec system lesser in low sec, none in 0.0 I really hate to see 0.0 PvPer playing pirate in low sec with security status like +5.0 because they rat in 0.0 and gain standing. If you don't lose standing killing PC in 0.0, you shouldn't gain it killing NPC in 0.0.
Zana Kito	Posted - 2007.01.21 12:28:00 - [93] So, CCP.. why exactly do players lose sec status for killing someone with -5 or lower sec? Concord would appreciate someone killing these criminals for them.. one should actually GAIN sec status killing pirate PCs. These basic faction principles shouldn't be too difficult to comprehend.
AlleyKat Gallente The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2007.01.21 12:45:00 - [94] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Also introduce Gneiss as a rare find. Through probing, Gneiss-only belts can be found in 0.4 systems and they yeild very very high quantities of ore per 'roid. All your other points have some good ideas behind them. Recruiting!
Imperil Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 13:14:00 - [95] 1) Change NPC spawn level on the different security systems. 1.0 - 0.8 Usually frigate spawns. 0.7 - 0.5 Usually cruiser spawns. 0.4 - 0.2 Usually battlecruiser spawns. 0.1 - 0.0 Usually battleship spawns. true 0.0 Battleship spawns as it is now.. 2) Remove level 4 agents away from high security space and place them into low security. While at it increase rewards for level 4 agents and add level 5 agents for the very low security systems. 3) Make Hedbergite and Hemorphite average in 0.4 and common in 0.3 and down. Jaspet should be average in 0.3 and common in 0.2 and down. Dark Ochre should be average in 0.2 and common in 0.1. Gneiss should be average in 0.1 and empire 0.0, while in true 0.0 it should be more common. It sucks to see true 0.0 systems having Hemorphite as their best ore. 4) Add more complexes in low security and high rewarding storyline missions. Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.01.21 13:40:00 - [96] simple fact of matter, high sec is to profitable..so it needs reducing, low sec is not profitable enough so it needs increasin,. the moderate players who would take risk for financial gain will move there...the rest can quit the game for all i care i see them as nothing more than a blight in the first place.eve will continue to survivee without them (no matter how much the bears want to belive otherwise..at most only 30% of subscribers would leave( remember a good 20k subscribers are alliance people, add to that there alts who sit in high sec, the moderate players who would stay, those bears who would just accept the changes, the pirates themselves, and various others who wont leave...there would be more than enough subscribers left)) RAM is recruiting
Buster Gonads	Posted - 2007.01.21 13:43:00 - [97] Originally by: dantes inferno simple fact of matter, high sec is to profitable..so it needs reducing, low sec is not profitable enough so it needs increasin,. the moderate players who would take risk for financial gain will move there...the rest can quit the game for all i care i see them as nothing more than a blight in the first place.eve will continue to survivee without them (no matter how much the bears want to belive otherwise..at most only 30% of subscribers would leave( remember a good 20k subscribers are alliance people, add to that there alts who sit in high sec, the moderate players who would stay, those bears who would just accept the changes, the pirates themselves, and various others who wont leave...there would be more than enough subscribers left)) Perhaps you should give the CCP accountants a call in that case as you seem to have all the answers.
dantes inferno Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.01.21 13:53:00 - [98] Quote: Perhaps you should give the CCP accountants a call in that case as you seem to have all the answers. well i get my information from the same place as the "OMG IF YOU NERF HIGHSEC CCP WILL BE OUT OF BUSINESS" crowd..so why dont they do so first RAM is recruiting
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.21 14:18:00 - [99] Originally by: Cute SpyGirl The same people that flame me on a similiar topic, "The Fundamental Flaws of EvE" is now supporting BELLUM's idea. The bottom line is this, it does not matter what we (carebearers) say or do--PvPers just do not like us. Why do want us to go to low sec, so you can shoot us? If CCP gives carebearers more time to grow with better protection in high sec, maybe, we will venture out of high sec and NPC corp. I dont want to change this game, but I don't have to play your gaming style. Speaking for myself, I don't hate carebears who are prepared to work with PVPers in sharing responsibilities for low sec risk management. My corp A4D has done more than most casual ganking corps to help Empire players into low sec - in fact, several hundred players from dozens of corps have had the opportunity to thrive and experience the teamwork that comes of managing their own security, thanks to us. It is not a new idea, but this is what we do... 1) We find an attractive pair of low sec systems. 2) We wipe out the (usually casual) inhabitants. 3) We set up an intel channel and invite carebear corps to set up a home for a fee. 4) The carebear corps are left to manage their owns security against interlopers, given advice as time goes on, and given direct military assistance in the event of an organised threat. As with all ventures, some projects have failed, some corps have failed to live up to expectations, but where our time and effort has paid off, the results have been awesome. One system in particular is a graveyard for any cruiser or battlecruiser, even PVP-fitted, that warps to a belt. The locals are only months old, but can scan out a ship in seconds. I saw this yet again last night - my Pilgrim turned out to be redundant, and in the general dogpile there was a player just days old getting stuck into the action, wanting a second shot after an earlier missed opportunity. Local friendly again, and they swap into mining barges and resume chat about salvaging NPC wrecks. I have given something like 7 months of my game time helping people make it out there, and have had the pleasure of flying with dozens of people who see the benefit in spending as much time organising and teaching as chasing. I have deep respect for carebears who balance their desire to cooperatively build, with the acknowledgement that they must also cooperatively defend, or at least retreat and rethink their position without complaint. A4D has been giving noobs an easier entry into low sec since 2005. But it is getting harder, because content expansion in low sec is on hold, while content expansion in Empire and 0.0 keeps surging forward. And this is reflected in market expansion too. Alliance 0.0 is the new Empire - in spite of the scare-stories you hear, it is relatively safe, outposts and territorial control features are making a real difference, and markets are fairly well-stocked compared to the old days. At the very least you can buy anything T1 for a reasonable price, which was not my experience of TPAR-G and LS-JEP years ago. For an ever-growing proportion of that population, there is less and less need to make runs back and forth through the chokepoints. I am seeing newbies making the jump from Empire to 0.0 without any acclimatisation in low sec, because none is necessary these days. But to many people, the social character of Alliances is objectionable. So they miss out on the camaraderie that comes from looking after each others' security, and play the stale game of safe Empire. Not everyone wants to run PVP risk, I am not interested in helping or forcing people to move to a place to which they do not want to move, but my experience is that there are a lot of people out there, call them adventurous carebears, who give it a try and find themselves disappointed. Not because they refuse to risk death, but because once there, they see there is nothing there. Logoffs on Fraps
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.21 14:25:00 - [100] Lots of good ideas in this thread (and some not so good), but CCP doesn't seem to agree and/or care about lo-sec. My favorite ideas include: 1) Give sec rating increases, or at least no sec rating decrease, for destroying negative security rating players in lo-sec (don't agree re bounties, as being open to abuse). Maybe a sec rating increase if the pirate's sec rating is < -5, otherwise just no sec rating hit. 2) Increase bounties and salvage drop rates for lo-sec belt rats, and give faction standing increases for destroying them. Why not, since you're policing the faction's space for them? I hate it when EVE only provides on method (ie, missions) to achieve some particular goal (ie, increase faction standing). 3) I guess add some kind of hi-end ore, if they aren't already available via exploration? 4) Allow POS without standing or charters, and allow moon-mining, etc. in 0.4 systems, or at least those with a "true sec" rating of < 0.4 (ie,0.36). With the T2 BPO reseed, Invention, etc. hopefully the demand for moon minerals will increase, and this could help fuel it. None of these ideas are new, and most of them aren't mine, but I'm hoping CCP will pick up and dust off some of these ideas in the near future.

Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 14:28:00 - [101] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 20/01/2007 02:44:29 My standard list of improvements is as follows: 1) Make Hedbergite and Hemorphite common all the way up to 0.3 sec space. Jaspet does not justify the risks, and is not going to pay a couple of PVP pilots to sit in a belt or fancy location for several hours. Also introduce Gneiss as a rare find. 2) Give low sec a fresh sprinkling of high-quality L3 and L4 kill agents, not concentrated in a handful of super-hubs containing 4 to 8, but spread out. The proportion of location agents should be higher than in high sec Empire, to aid with security. 3) Is one of the refineries in M-MD3B still 30% efficient? That always was a perfect example of CCP making stations with good potential worthless. Stop putting crap refineries into low sec. 4) Improve NPC spawns - BCs should be the norm, and give a slight increase to rate. Boost the spawns in neglected 0.0 too (eg Syndicate), to maintain the ISK/hour gap. 5) Complexes need some improvement, 4/10 Serpentis-Phi is a perfect example of something worth doing just once. Also a sprinkling of 5/10 perhaps? 6) Halve sec status penalties. Unpopular, but look at it this way - career pirates will still go outlaw, while more people trying to fight for control of a low sec system don't have to choose between that system and the whole of high sec Empire as a wartime battleground. War decs are not of great assistance when dealing with interlopers. I may have forgotten a few things - it's late. But you get the idea, low sec loses out badly when compared with the relative safety and ISK/hour of high sec Empire, and Alliance 0.0, which except for brief intervals of collapse now offers the same advantages. EDIT: 7) Increase number of belts in low sec systems. A system with 15-30 is an easy sell, a system with fewer than that is worthless if all you have is Jaspet. Quoted For Truth! Especially number 3. “3) Is one of the refineries in M-MD3B still 30% efficient? That always was a perfect example of CCP making stations with good potential worthless. Stop putting crap refineries into low sec.” Lose crap refineries Period is what I say. Say you have 2 characters, and want to mine solo, in 0.0 with a low “true” system security its usually necessary to tank a spawn in a BS while others or your alt mines. So you have one alt tanking and one alt mining, and you also have to refine in a POS or other rather poor efficiency refinery, which means with a retriever you can make about 10m an hour from Crokite. 10m an hour from a single lowly retriever... not bad right? Ummm... now take both alts and get them into retrievers, then take them to 0.5 and mine omber with them.... your now making 12m a hour. Rubbish Efficiency Refineries FTL. -
Jayson Lee	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:34:00 - [102] Allow a corp to take control of a system to help police the area. Give that corp a portion of profits from system to promote people ratting/mining in thier system. The corp in control needs to be able to control the gate. By controlling gates the corp can flag anyone entering the system with weapons active as criminals, think old west. Now, people can sign up on the friendly list and have active weapons to rat or run missions but only after signing up with the corp in control. If a player not on the list flys in the system with guns, anyone can attack him (including gate guns) with no sec hit. All players in the system will get a warning if someone with active weapons enters. I know its rough, but I think this would solve some of the problems we have. First of all it will promote corps to protect thier territory. Secondly it will give the controlling corp some tools to help defend thier territory, with out taking a sec hit. What do you guys think?
Forum Troll	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:47:00 - [103] Nerf Empire. There should be no money to made there except via trading. Everything should have to be done in low sec or 0.0. All mission goals, all mining, all rats, everything. Empire ruins this game.
Nastratu Minmatar Serefon Creatin	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:54:00 - [104] Originally by: Forum Troll Nerf Empire. There should be no money to made there except via trading. Everything should have to be done in low sec or 0.0. All mission goals, all mining, all rats, everything. Empire ruins this game. along with nerfing empire, nerf all the forum trolls their ideas are just too good - i don't think the rest of EVE can handle it
Jerick Ludhowe Internet Tough Guys Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:09:00 - [105] Originally by: Sorja Guys, I'm all for pirates getting targets back and whatnot, honestly. But FFS revamp the bounty system, location agent and so on. I want to be an anti-pirate as much as you want to be pirate. I tried on several occasions and it's just not worth the effort and sec status loss. The way I see it now, they might as well have Empire and 0.0 and that's it. Only been saying that for like 2 years... Bounty system needs to be based on what sec status system you killed a ship/pod in and what class the ship was. For example, billybob the pirate toasts frank the miner in a .4 system. Frank was flying a retriever so billyboy automaticly gets + 150k bounty added to him. The option to place a bouncy on another player should still be present. Secondly, if you destroy a player pirate who has a bounty but you do not get the pod you should still recieve a portion of that bounty. The idea of this is to get people to fight back. There are plenty of incentives for pirates to engange targets in low sec and I think there should be an equally large incentive for these targets to try and defend themselves rather than just warping to 0 to the nearest station. I noticed that earlier in this thread that someone mentioned that the OP is being greedy as he just wants more isk from more targets in low sec. Now I've been doing this pirating thing for quite some time now and I can tell you that the vast majority of pirates I have met are more concerned about a good fight or some fun pvp rather than a big wallet. The truly greedy people are the carebears who sit in highsec running the same mission over and over again just watching their wallet grow. PvP is what makes this game what it is and sadly small scale pvp is becomeing less and less common. I'll tell you this much, if the situation as a whole does no improve I won't be the first nor the last to quit the game over this issue (no you can't have my stuff).
Rynlam Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:11:00 - [106] I like Patch86's idea.
Takakura Hirohito	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:14:00 - [107] This is one of the most pathetic threads ive ever seen. Maybe we should start a registry of all these poor gankers like the OP who want to pvp all day long. Then the GM could send them all to the same region and lock them in and they can pvp all day long. But that wont work they seem to like ganking people who cant fight back better. I remember my first and last trip to 0.0 space two months ago. I wasnt two jumps in in my ship before I was ganked and podded before I even knew what happend. Then again my indsutrial ship was a major thread to alliance security. Now if you put all those people together that would be endless pvp for these people. Unless they dont want to fight people who actually fight back? Maybe thats why theyre not declaring on BOB or something. They want victims not pvp opponents. Taki
Takakura Hirohito	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:18:00 - [108] Want people like me to move to 0.0 and live and work there? Give me some benefit as a newer player to do it and put Concord there to protect me. Right now its not worth it to lose everything I have because some pimply 15 year old with no social life thinks he has to get his 150 kills a week. If you want to kill everything that moves go play counterstrike. But youre a pvper so I expect LV will be wardecing BOB shortly? Then you can have all the pvp you want. Taki
Jayson Lee	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:19:00 - [109] Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe I noticed that earlier in this thread that someone mentioned that the OP is being greedy as he just wants more isk from more targets in low sec. Now I've been doing this pirating thing for quite some time now and I can tell you that the vast majority of pirates I have met are more concerned about a good fight or some fun pvp rather than a big wallet. The truly greedy people are the carebears who sit in highsec running the same mission over and over again just watching their wallet grow. PvP is what makes this game what it is and sadly small scale pvp is becomeing less and less common. I'll tell you this much, if the situation as a whole does no improve I won't be the first nor the last to quit the game over this issue (no you can't have my stuff). If so many pirates just want a good fight, then why pick on mining barges? According to what I have seen and read and there should be plenty of people looking for fair fights in low sec why not fight each other? I would take what you said more seriously if experience hasnt told me otherwise. Most people that want "pvp" only want easy targets. Which floors me because every time this omes up i think "isnt this the carebear mentality that they allways make fun of?" I am sure you want what you suggest, but you have to realize that you are in fact a small minority of those who pvp. If you want a tough fight it should not be to difficult to find other pirates such as yourself to combat.
Takakura Hirohito	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:25:00 - [110] Quote: simple fact of matter, high sec is to profitable..so it needs reducing, low sec is not profitable enough so it needs increasin,. the moderate players who would take risk for financial gain will move there...the rest can quit the game for all i care i see them as nothing more than a blight in the first place.eve will continue to survivee without them (no matter how much the bears want to belive otherwise..at most only 30% of subscribers would leave( remember a good 20k subscribers are alliance people, add to that there alts who sit in high sec, the moderate players who would stay, those bears who would just accept the changes, the pirates themselves, and various others who wont leave...there would be more than enough subscribers left))

Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:32:00 - [111] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 21/01/2007 18:29:18 1. Change low secs to high secs and null secs. Remove low secs because they are useless. 2. Add more choke points between high secs to null secs or null secs to high secs. 3. Make it like Jita. If Jita was a 0.0 system, it would have 5 gates. It would be harder to camp and easy to enter and exit without worry whether gate gankers were camping the only gate into 0.0. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Nastratu Minmatar Serefon Creatin	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:34:00 - [112] Originally by: Jayson Lee If so many pirates just want a good fight, then why pick on mining barges? According to what I have seen and read and there should be plenty of people looking for fair fights in low sec why not fight each other? I would take what you said more seriously if experience hasnt told me otherwise. Most people that want "pvp" only want easy targets. Which floors me because every time this omes up i think "isnt this the carebear mentality that they allways make fun of?" PVP stands for player vs player gaming. It does not stand for player vs. a challenge or player vs. your uber 30 mil sp char in a command ship. They just want any gank. Just something to lock and scramble and blow up. It is nice if the fight is good and memorable, but pretty much any kind of gank will do as far as PVP goes. Because in PVP you want a gank, other pirates make poor targets. As a pirate you need to pick your targets right. And other pirates are just not valid gankable targets most of the time. Pirates do fight each other you know. But if you think you can't make a gank, you don't go for it, which is common. In case where you attack a mining barge in low sec, the miner can all in for some reinforcements, he can be bait, he can have protection sitting around. It is player vs player situation - who outsmarts who. It's not about sp or ship types involved or setups.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:43:00 - [113] Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 18:42:25 Personally i would prefer a good boost of lowsec and dont touch empire. But the result would be major inflation because the empire people earn allready good money. Making lowsec even more profitable would upset it all. This is why a nerf to empire is needed: - Halve the rewards of npc kills in empire, but dont nerf the 50 k or below vessels that life in 0.5 and higher. - increase reward from npc kills in 0.4-0.0 by 50% - Move all 4/10 plexes out of empire to 0.4 or lower, these complexes will get 50% boost to reward aswell This will mean that shooting a cruiser down in empire gains you 60k and shooting it in lowsec gives you 180k reward. What a lot of people suggested aswell was better ores in lowsec. Everyone needs to realise that increasing rare ore, makes them less rare and less profitable. Zydrine has a very low value, while trit is very expensive atm. Instead of making the rare ores even less rare, why not increase the ammount of ore in a roid 5 in lowsec and make the miningyield 4 (depends on how dangerous the area is...) So instead of making 5 mil an hour mining in empire, you will make 20 mil an hour mining in lowsec for low end minerals... 2 hours mining in lowsec vs 8 hours in empire... RP side: the roids in lowsec have a different structure and have travelled longer through space making them more uber. _________________________________________________ Breetime
Mortimer Phinn	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:59:00 - [114] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 18:42:25 Personally i would prefer a good boost of lowsec and dont touch empire. But the result would be major inflation because the empire people earn allready good money. Making lowsec even more profitable would upset it all. This is why a nerf to empire is needed: - Halve the rewards of npc kills in empire, but dont nerf the 50 k or below vessels that life in 0.5 and higher. - increase reward from npc kills in 0.4-0.0 by 50% - Move all 4/10 plexes out of empire to 0.4 or lower, these complexes will get 50% boost to reward aswell This will mean that shooting a cruiser down in empire gains you 60k and shooting it in lowsec gives you 180k reward. What a lot of people suggested aswell was better ores in lowsec. Everyone needs to realise that increasing rare ore, makes them less rare and less profitable. Zydrine has a very low value, while trit is very expensive atm. Instead of making the rare ores even less rare, why not increase the ammount of ore in a roid 5 in lowsec and make the miningyield 4 (depends on how dangerous the area is...) So instead of making 5 mil an hour mining in empire, you will make 20 mil an hour mining in lowsec for low end minerals... 2 hours mining in lowsec vs 8 hours in empire... RP side: the roids in lowsec have a different structure and have travelled longer through space making them more uber. And in two months time nothing has changed, do you nerf again? Mission rewards have been nerfed several times already, so do you just keep making empire less fun until people quit? Honestly, if there was just one thing worth putting up with the hassle of gate ganks in low sec, I'd consider going there, making my gaming undesirable is not the way to do it.
Jayson Lee	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:11:00 - [115] Originally by: Nastratu Originally by: Jayson Lee If so many pirates just want a good fight, then why pick on mining barges? According to what I have seen and read and there should be plenty of people looking for fair fights in low sec why not fight each other? I would take what you said more seriously if experience hasnt told me otherwise. Most people that want "pvp" only want easy targets. Which floors me because every time this omes up i think "isnt this the carebear mentality that they allways make fun of?" PVP stands for player vs player gaming. It does not stand for player vs. a challenge or player vs. your uber 30 mil sp char in a command ship. They just want any gank. Just something to lock and scramble and blow up. It is nice if the fight is good and memorable, but pretty much any kind of gank will do as far as PVP goes. Because in PVP you want a gank, other pirates make poor targets. As a pirate you need to pick your targets right. And other pirates are just not valid gankable targets most of the time. Pirates do fight each other you know. But if you think you can't make a gank, you don't go for it, which is common. In case where you attack a mining barge in low sec, the miner can all in for some reinforcements, he can be bait, he can have protection sitting around. It is player vs player situation - who outsmarts who. It's not about sp or ship types involved or setups. I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I was never discussing what PVP is. I was responding to a gentleman that I assumed wanted a more challenging fight. Lets be honest pirates dont attack miners because they think they are bait, they do it because its an easy gank. Their is no real compition involved, in fact its easier than running missions. All I am saying is that most pvp types try to support thier claims by saying that want a true contest mono v mono, when in reality they dont. I dont buy for 1 second the arguement that they want more challenge as thier reasoning for building up low sec. If they want a challenge then either A. attack other pirates as they claim they want a tough fight, or B. go raid alliance space and duke it out with them, they are geared up for combat. Just dont make claims that you want to up the pop of low sec so you can find a challenging fight, it does not match the reality of the the situation.
Mesacc Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:32:00 - [116] Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader Edited by: Reggie Stoneloader on 21/01/2007 02:43:23 Originally by: Jaguar Dragon you want more players in low sec ,great have ccp remove the sec standing loss i'll take if i kill a pirate that has a low sec standing or bounty on him, There it is. Even if you're organized and skilled and trained, most carebears are unwilling to engage in PvP because of sec loss. There's no way to get that back without hours and hours of ratting, which miners don't do. So the teams that could populate low-sec and protect their miners there are unable to do so because they won't take the sec hit to kill pirates that haven't already gotten a flag. Pirates love to taunt and mock the carebears that won't fight them, and it wears you out. You can't live n low-sec without either spending a lot of time ratting in 0.0 or being an outlaw after a month. My poor hauling alt has been at -1.0 sec for almost a year because I helped kill an Ishtar pilot that had been ganking newbies in a system every day for a week. A year of mining and hauling and building and trading and sec status never goes up, because I didn't kill the thousands and thousands of NPC spaceships that it would take to reset my security status. If I had tried to live in low-sec and fought to defend myself and my mates from the sort of people that come in and shoot at them, I'd be -10 with no hope of ever getting back to a lawful status. That is unmitigated bullcrap. Take sec status out of EvE. Let killrights decide who gets shot with impunity at gates and stations, take away the bounties and the sec status that serves only as badges for villains and curses for everyone else. And that is my #1 reason I dont go to lowsec/nosec. I like a good fight now and then, but if I do my standings get trashed. If I get jumped and defend myself, my standings get trashed. It seems like the game is set up to where once you go PvPing, thats it. thats all you can ever do without hours and hours of grinding to fix it.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:35:00 - [117] Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 19:32:56 Originally by: Mortimer Phinn Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 18:42:25 Personally i would prefer a good boost of lowsec and dont touch empire. But the result would be major inflation because the empire people earn allready good money. Making lowsec even more profitable would upset it all. This is why a nerf to empire is needed: - Halve the rewards of npc kills in empire, but dont nerf the 50 k or below vessels that life in 0.5 and higher. - increase reward from npc kills in 0.4-0.0 by 50% - Move all 4/10 plexes out of empire to 0.4 or lower, these complexes will get 50% boost to reward aswell This will mean that shooting a cruiser down in empire gains you 60k and shooting it in lowsec gives you 180k reward. What a lot of people suggested aswell was better ores in lowsec. Everyone needs to realise that increasing rare ore, makes them less rare and less profitable. Zydrine has a very low value, while trit is very expensive atm. Instead of making the rare ores even less rare, why not increase the ammount of ore in a roid 5 in lowsec and make the miningyield 4 (depends on how dangerous the area is...) So instead of making 5 mil an hour mining in empire, you will make 20 mil an hour mining in lowsec for low end minerals... 2 hours mining in lowsec vs 8 hours in empire... RP side: the roids in lowsec have a different structure and have travelled longer through space making them more uber. And in two months time nothing has changed, do you nerf again? Mission rewards have been nerfed several times already, so do you just keep making empire less fun until people quit? Honestly, if there was just one thing worth putting up with the hassle of gate ganks in low sec, I'd consider going there, making my gaming undesirable is not the way to do it. low sec isnt amamake, low is the 0.1 systems with 1-5 people in it and 2 stations and belts filled with great rewards. First of all, just like you said. Nerfing highsec will get you no where if you want to get people into lowsec. It will just make people quit. This is true, but if you want to make lowsec more profitable, you cant just ignore the 500k bs in empire... Not because if you nerf highsec to crap, it will make lowsec alive again. But simply because people are making so much money this way that inflation would get out of hand. Thats why a nerf to bounties is needed. no removal from agents blah blah, no removal of belts from 1.0, 0.9. Nothing of that kind of bull***. If this nerf accurs it opens the path for better rewards in lowsec. If you want to stay in empire thats absolutely fine, you will still make millions each hour from doing missions or some mining. lowsec will just become so nice, that you want* to go there. Nothing is forcing you, the rewards are fine in empire. But in lowsec they are simply awesome... Example: A 0.4 surrounded by 0.5 and higher gets a 3* multiplier on ore ammount (in each roid) and 2multiplier on yield. Instead of making 5 mil in empire mining trit, you can earn 10 mil and hour and have acces to better oretypes (jaspet,omber) and 3 better reward on the cruiser npc as in empire...also faction rats come into the picture here... A more dangerous lowsec gets better multipliers and rats...and sometimes the chance of maybe spawning a npc bs with 1 mil+ bounty... Empire would still be good, but lowsec would just rocks your pants off...Who is forcing you? Nobody is..except your own greed for isk and adventure... _________________________________________________ Breetime
Jayson Lee	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:36:00 - [118] Edited by: Jayson Lee on 21/01/2007 19:34:43 Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 18:42:25 Personally i would prefer a good boost of lowsec and dont touch empire. But the result would be major inflation because the empire people earn allready good money. Making lowsec even more profitable would upset it all. This is why a nerf to empire is needed: - Halve the rewards of npc kills in empire, but dont nerf the 50 k or below vessels that life in 0.5 and higher. - increase reward from npc kills in 0.4-0.0 by 50% - Move all 4/10 plexes out of empire to 0.4 or lower, these complexes will get 50% boost to reward aswell This will mean that shooting a cruiser down in empire gains you 60k and shooting it in lowsec gives you 180k reward. What a lot of people suggested aswell was better ores in lowsec. Everyone needs to realise that increasing rare ore, makes them less rare and less profitable. Zydrine has a very low value, while trit is very expensive atm. Instead of making the rare ores even less rare, why not increase the ammount of ore in a roid 5 in lowsec and make the miningyield 4 (depends on how dangerous the area is...) So instead of making 5 mil an hour mining in empire, you will make 20 mil an hour mining in lowsec for low end minerals... 2 hours mining in lowsec vs 8 hours in empire... RP side: the roids in lowsec have a different structure and have travelled longer through space making them more uber. How about this, instead of nerfing high sec, we nerf pirates. That affects the risk/reward the ratio only takes an approach that more people will like. Sound like a good idea? I doubt it, so lets not mess with high sec, and focus on why low sec sucks. Until you find a away to allow corps to make money protecting systems you will not solve the problem. Any increase in rewards for low sec you use to bring in more miners/ratters ect will only bring in more pirates resulting in a system that we have now. Just making the rewards greater wont solve the problem which is too many pirates with no way to stop them. Edit for spelling, which didnt help much Just to say again, nerfing high sec will not help, only drive people away. You have to decrease the risk in low sec to get more people there.
Cmdr Sy Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:37:00 - [119] High sec does not need a nerf, low sec needs more content. Do you guys have any idea how many agents there are within half a dozen jumps of Oursulaert? Want to wager them against how many there are in low sec Genesis? Think the quality there is better? Ever seen the cut a PVP pilot makes from covering a mining op for Jaspet? It's pathetic. The carebears my (as of today, former) corp shepherds into low sec have a blast for a few months before either quitting game, returning to high sec or joining 0.0 alliances. Few stay to (key word - independently) build lasting structures. Aside from one of our projects, the only success story I have seen is the Shuria low sec loop, and that took three attempts at an alliance to tame. I am not against people carebearing in Vaere, but low sec needs the same (non-POS) money-making opportunities safe Empire has, if the current brain drain is to end. Right now low sec is a place of industrial POS outsourced to alts (eg - Vitrauze), agent blobs (eg - Annancale), last stops (eg - Obe), and the rest is just a place through which people fly en route to get to somewhere more interesting. Most of low sec does not pay its way. A good refinery, repairshop, factory, a couple of dozen belts with Hemorphite or Hedbergite, a high level L3 and L4 kill agent, a decent moon, all within two or three jumps of each other, that would be kinda cool. And have quite a few such locations. Honestly, that's the kind of renumeration people need to be offered to even consider setting out and making friends in low sec. Good solid rewards. Because the alternatives on offer are an L4 in Empire, or an outpost with a thousand people showing blue and several bubble-camps filtering out everyone else. Past a certain SP threshold, those are better alternatives. Sorry if I am going on about this, but it is an issue close to my heart, as I have seen decent corps fade away and good friends leave out of sheer boredom and lack of non-alliance possibility. But I think I have said everything I have to say on the subject. Logoffs on Fraps
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:43:00 - [120] Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 19:43:33 Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 19:40:16 Originally by: Jayson Lee Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 18:42:25 Personally i would prefer a good boost of lowsec and dont touch empire. But the result would be major inflation because the empire people earn allready good money. Making lowsec even more profitable would upset it all. This is why a nerf to empire is needed: - Halve the rewards of npc kills in empire, but dont nerf the 50 k or below vessels that life in 0.5 and higher. - increase reward from npc kills in 0.4-0.0 by 50% - Move all 4/10 plexes out of empire to 0.4 or lower, these complexes will get 50% boost to reward aswell This will mean that shooting a cruiser down in empire gains you 60k and shooting it in lowsec gives you 180k reward. What a lot of people suggested aswell was better ores in lowsec. Everyone needs to realise that increasing rare ore, makes them less rare and less profitable. Zydrine has a very low value, while trit is very expensive atm. Instead of making the rare ores even less rare, why not increase the ammount of ore in a roid 5 in lowsec and make the miningyield 4 (depends on how dangerous the area is...) So instead of making 5 mil an hour mining in empire, you will make 20 mil an hour mining in lowsec for low end minerals... 2 hours mining in lowsec vs 8 hours in empire... RP side: the roids in lowsec have a different structure and have travelled longer through space making them more uber. How about this, instead of nerfing high sec, we nerf pirates. That affects the risk/reward the ration only takes an approach that more people will like. Sound like a good idea? I doubt it, so lets not mess with high sec, and focus on why low sec sucks. Until you find a away to allow corps to make money protecting systems you will not solve the problem. Any increase in rewards for low sec you use to bring in more miners/ratters ect will only bring in more pirates resulting in a system that we have now. Just making the rewards greater wont solve the problem which is too many pirates with no way to stop them. read my other post (after the 1 you quoted). Low sec sucks because you can make far more money in empire and you are saver there. So you can be more lazy. These lazy peeps can have there 10 mil reward in empire, while a good missionrunner yields 30 mil an hour in lowsec... Not like probes are that awesome for getting missionsrunners anyway... more ratters/miners = more people getting ****ed off = more people joining up forces = more solo bs sitting in a belt with a 5 man mine/rat squad around waiting for a pirate to take the bait killing pirates is rather...easy. usually they dont espect resistance, or they are camping a gate in tanked bs. We have allready been killing pirates that camp gates in bs, by sending in a 40k armor apoc and the rest of gang jumps in as soon as the agro starts. Gotten some good bs,command shipsand hac kills from that... Not to mention you can force pirates to fight and they cannot help there gangmates or get sentry upon them.. _________________________________________________ Breetime

Jayson Lee	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:51:00 - [121] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 19:43:33 Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 19:40:16 Originally by: Jayson Lee Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 18:42:25 Personally i would prefer a good boost of lowsec and dont touch empire. But the result would be major inflation because the empire people earn allready good money. Making lowsec even more profitable would upset it all. This is why a nerf to empire is needed: - Halve the rewards of npc kills in empire, but dont nerf the 50 k or below vessels that life in 0.5 and higher. - increase reward from npc kills in 0.4-0.0 by 50% - Move all 4/10 plexes out of empire to 0.4 or lower, these complexes will get 50% boost to reward aswell This will mean that shooting a cruiser down in empire gains you 60k and shooting it in lowsec gives you 180k reward. What a lot of people suggested aswell was better ores in lowsec. Everyone needs to realise that increasing rare ore, makes them less rare and less profitable. Zydrine has a very low value, while trit is very expensive atm. Instead of making the rare ores even less rare, why not increase the ammount of ore in a roid 5 in lowsec and make the miningyield 4 (depends on how dangerous the area is...) So instead of making 5 mil an hour mining in empire, you will make 20 mil an hour mining in lowsec for low end minerals... 2 hours mining in lowsec vs 8 hours in empire... RP side: the roids in lowsec have a different structure and have travelled longer through space making them more uber. How about this, instead of nerfing high sec, we nerf pirates. That affects the risk/reward the ration only takes an approach that more people will like. Sound like a good idea? I doubt it, so lets not mess with high sec, and focus on why low sec sucks. Until you find a away to allow corps to make money protecting systems you will not solve the problem. Any increase in rewards for low sec you use to bring in more miners/ratters ect will only bring in more pirates resulting in a system that we have now. Just making the rewards greater wont solve the problem which is too many pirates with no way to stop them. read my other post (after the 1 you quoted). Low sec sucks because you can make far more money in empire and you are saver there. So you can be more lazy. These lazy peeps can have there 10 mil reward in empire, while a good missionrunner yields 30 mil an hour in lowsec... Not like probes are that awesome for getting missionsrunners anyway... more ratters/miners = more people getting ****ed off = more people joining up forces = more solo bs sitting in a belt with a 5 man mine/rat squad around waiting for a pirate to take the bait killing pirates is rather...easy. usually they dont espect resistance, or they are camping a gate in tanked bs. We have allready been killing pirates that camp gates in bs, by sending in a 40k armor apoc and the rest of gang jumps in as soon as the agro starts. Gotten some good bs,command shipsand hac kills from that... Not to mention you can force pirates to fight and they cannot help there gangmates or get sentry upon them.. So you nerf empire then what? They skip low sec and go to 0.0 space. Nerfing high sec wont do what you want it to do. Once more people start going to low sec, pirates will be out maned for awhile, but it wont take long for more pirates to show up. Once that happens you start back at square one. I am all for people banding together to protect systems but you need tools to help.
Gretek Lal Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:54:00 - [122] Originally by: Rina Shanu I really wish people would start giving low sec a try. After being for a lot of time in low sec, both pirating and carebearing, I know for a fact there is a part of this community living there, having fun, not willingly to change. Yes there are few but there are... But people never try...... Why should they? As soon as you jump through the gate into lo-sec you get jumped and podded. I once joined a corp and was not even able to reach their HQ in 0.2 space until several days after I'd joined, because I kept getting podded enroute. I had to get up early on a Saturday morning before I could make it. Then I realized just how stupid I was being. Take my wife to work early and then plop down in front of the computer just so I could travel safely from point A to point B in a computer game? How incredibly silly. This is a game! More people might be willing to take the 'risk' of living in lo-sec and even 0.0 if you could only get your stuff to your new home. One possible answer would be many more gates, many more routes into lo-sec space. But I'm not holding my breath. The game is what it is, and I accept it for what it is. But I am NOT in this game just to give some little twenty-something l33t d00d living with his parents more targets. I am more than happy to stay in Empire and play my way.
Gulldrengurinn	Posted - 2007.01.21 20:29:00 - [123] These kind of threads always make me laugh, some kid complaining why he can¦t kill 30 carebears every day with very little risks to himself. The main problem with low sec is there is NO way of control there, pirates leave and come as they please, dock at stations etc etc, the work that would need to be done to remotely secure an low sec area is insane. CCP has a very fine balance as it is, I dont believe that it is in their interest to force everyone into low sec or nerf highsec more then they have already done. Why risk a good thing? It is a proven fact that big changes like this can ruin games. Just ask yourself, is EVE a good game today? Why make fundimental changes to the core of the game just to see if the results will please a certain group within the game. Low sec is much more riskier then a good controlled 0.0 space in every way. Why? well like I said above, there is no way of securing low sec. As it stands, there are plenty of options for fair pvp, more ganging is not needed in anyway. The factional warfare system might add lots of interesting ideas for low sec, make a system that players can affect sec status of these systems, allow other factions to weaken the sec status of a system and eventually take control of the system etc. Add a point system and so on.
Teinyhr Minmatar United Systems Navy	Posted - 2007.01.21 21:25:00 - [124] Pretty much the only thing keeping me out of low sec, fighting off pirates is the security penalty. If you can clearly see someone is a pirate, in a pirate corp and you have chosen to roleplay as someone who will defend and uphold the law or just dislike pirates for some other reason, you can't shoot them first unless they have like -5 sec standing. I once managed to do the mistake of attacking a rat in low-sec and podding him. Bam. From +1.4 to -0.6 or so. If I get enough low standing, I can't access profitable agents or go through high-sec without Concord or some player popping me out. Whoop de friggin' doo. "Go to 0.0" isn't a viable option as I don't care about the game politics, my corporation doesn't have the access to 0.0, and joining an 0.0 alliance means heaploads of trouble with other alliances and all that in-game political BS (omguh BoB is gonna kill us all!) I honestly don't care one bit. ------------------- Originally by: Smagd Besides, specialization is for insects.
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai	Posted - 2007.01.21 22:50:00 - [125] I liked the idea where killing pirates gave an almost non-existent sec hit. It allows the people in low sec the ability to be proactive in defending themselves instead of waiting. Standings should also increase the amount of time it takes you to dock to help alleviate said rats from station tanking and gaining the benefits of the average law abiding pilots. Sec standing should also preclude you from docking. -10's and whatnot should not be allowed to dock in high sec period. ----- results may vary
Nastratu Minmatar Serefon Creatin	Posted - 2007.01.21 22:55:00 - [126] Originally by: Jayson Lee I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I was never discussing what PVP is. I was responding to a gentleman that I assumed wanted a more challenging fight. I read the passage that you quoted and your response. In my opinion, this gentleman was not asking for a challenging "mono v mono" fight. I shall quote him here: "... are more concerned about a good fight or some fun pvp rather than a big wallet". When I read that I translated it as pirates are looking for a good fight or some fun pvp. Does this mean a challenging fight against that 30 mil sp pilot in command ship? No. You see a pretty Retriever blow up on your screen and that is "some fun pvp". Same goes for shuttles, newbies in frigates, anything really that you can make go poof. That is what I was trying to explain to you in my reponse.
Heroldyn	Posted - 2007.01.21 23:17:00 - [127] - move all empire ice-fields into low sec - have low-sec rats drop very rare items by tiny chances. ( chance-based high-value drops is something thats completly missing in eve. other mmorpgs have 0.01 - 0.05 % chances of dropping very special things.. "attribute-enchanhing cards" for example.
Prime Entity Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.21 23:31:00 - [128] Originally by: Patch86 Edited by: Patch86 on 20/01/2007 02:16:40 I think low-sec needs something.........unique. Empire has safety. Making low-sec more safe will never draw crowds, since those after safety always have Empire. 0.0 has wealth. No matter how much you increase the value of low-sec, it won't make much of a difference as 0.0 will always be more valuable. So what do we give low-sec? Something that it will have that neither 0.0 nor Empire wll have. The obvious answer- Level 5 agents. The fabled uber-hard teamworks-a-must missions, with big tasty rewards (which AREN'T just more money- some unique LP offers could work). This will ensure that any truly dedicated NPCing force really really have a reason to go to low-sec, and not 0.0. But that doesn't really help revive the at-belt / warpable object problem. So what we need to do is add more warpable objects (other than belts) that only low-sec will have. And heres my brilliant idea of the day: Pirate Cynos. Basically, every now and again, a Pirate faction cyno will spring up in system, and at it will spawn a Pirate Capital ship (or two) plus a support fleet similar in size to what you expect in missions. Brilliant. These SHOULD still appear in 0.0, but MORE frequently the higher the security rating (up to .4). In other words, more of these will spawn in low-sec than 0.0, and the higher sec the better. Why? Well for fluff reasons- the Pirates are only going to be warping attack groups into systems with targets worth attacking- they're more likely to launch massive attacks in Empire sovereignty space than the vast empty wildlands of 0.0. Genius. I think what you suggest is a great idea. The idea of a pirate dread/carrier/titan popping up in the middle of a deadspace mission gets me very excited.
Jaaff	Posted - 2007.01.22 00:03:00 - [129] I think you have answerd your question in the second paragraph of your post
Lost Ninja	Posted - 2007.01.22 00:12:00 - [130] If you nerf empire to make low sec attractive all that will happen is that people who need to make lots of ISK will move to 0.0 and join alliances/corps to be safe there. Nerfing high sec won't mean more people will go to low sec. If all the carebears are in 0.0 then the gank squads are still without easy targets. Then they'll want 0.0 nerfed so that people are forced back into low sec. You have to address the basic issue of low sec, at the moment risk != reward unless you want PvP as a reward. For most others low sec is an evil they will avoid if possible. How? No idea... _________________________________________________________

Ben Derindar KelBen Productions	Posted - 2007.01.22 00:27:00 - [131] It's been said in this thread already, and I've said it before myself, and I'll say it again: low-sec as it currently stands is tailor-made for piracy. The sec status loss effectively punishes people who are otherwise prepared to fight back. War decs are not an appropriate solution either, because (a) the changes they bring apply to all space, not just low sec, and (b) anti-pirates should not be forced to cough up to play their way when pirates can get their fill for free. Until positive security players are allowed to shoot negative security players in low-sec without losing sec themselves, low-sec will continue to remain a wasteland of Asian plex farmers, and pirates having nobody to shoot but each other. /Ben How to fix Eve
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.22 00:28:00 - [132] Never forget that PvP requires isk. There are lots of people using high sec to generate the isk needed to then go and PvP. People need to be able to sustain loss. If people can't sustain loss then they won't go to places where there is a high chance of loss. Nerf High sec and you slow the ability to recover for anyone who has been of the wrong side of PvP. So instead of increasing the population in low sec, it may well decrease it. In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.
Edde Bebbi Amarr The Griffin	Posted - 2007.01.22 00:34:00 - [133] The problem is, and always has been, that the highest rewards are in high sec empire (lev4s) and 0.0 (everything else). Putting level 4 missions in safe empire is the reason low sec is as unsafe as it is. Simple. I dont hunt in low sec, I am not a pirate, I dont CARE how many ganks I get. But while lev4s are in highsec, the 'hardcore' carebears will stay there, and they are the only group organised enough to make lowsec safe enough for heavy population. As it stands, anything you can do in lowsec you can do safer in 0.0 or Empire. Therefore lowsec is ONLY for noobs, travellers and pirates.
Mortimer Phinn	Posted - 2007.01.22 02:02:00 - [134] Originally by: Edde Bebbi The problem is, and always has been, that the highest rewards are in high sec empire (lev4s) and 0.0 (everything else). Putting level 4 missions in safe empire is the reason low sec is as unsafe as it is. Simple. I dont hunt in low sec, I am not a pirate, I dont CARE how many ganks I get. But while lev4s are in highsec, the 'hardcore' carebears will stay there, and they are the only group organised enough to make lowsec safe enough for heavy population. As it stands, anything you can do in lowsec you can do safer in 0.0 or Empire. Therefore lowsec is ONLY for noobs, travellers and pirates. See the thing is, I log in for an hour or so after dinner wanting to run some missions, however with your wonderful plan, I get to spend that hour trying to find someone to organize with me so we can spend my valuable in-game time chasing children instead of running my 1-2 missions and logging for the evening. Empire is filled with people like me, paying 15 dollars a month to play the game the way we want, not the way you want.
Adunh Slavy Chaos Faction	Posted - 2007.01.22 02:06:00 - [135] Originally by: Heroldyn - move all empire ice-fields into low sec This will hurt everyone, from empire dwellers to no-sec alliances, many of which have research POSes in high sec. The only people it helps is "pirates" looking for easy barge kills. -AS
Adunh Slavy Chaos Faction	Posted - 2007.01.22 02:08:00 - [136] Originally by: Ben Derindar Until positive security players are allowed to shoot negative security players in low-sec without losing sec themselves, low-sec will continue to remain a wasteland of Asian plex farmers, and pirates having nobody to shoot but each other. /Signed -AS
Heroldyn	Posted - 2007.01.22 08:05:00 - [137] well, here's the solution: - have npc's drop implants and hardwires by a 0.01 - 0.05% (maybe more often) chance. The lower the sec, the more valueable the possible "luck drops". this would bring some empire people to low sec, lurking for the "quick money". - give people a security-status gain when they kill people with a negative one. ( the bigger the "gap" between the positive and negative sec-status, the more "gain" ) and also make a high positive sec-status worth something.
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:36:00 - [138] Sooo.. I just finished reading all five pages of replies to my post (ouch). Let's clear up a few things here: #1: to all the morons chastising me about what I should or shouldn't be doing- F off. That's not what this thread is about. #2: to all the people who imply that I just want 'victims' and easy kills- F off. That's not what this thread is about either. What this thread is about is the destruction of the solo/small gang pirate playing style due to the ease with which players can avoid combat. Contributing to this are things like "warp to 0km", probes being ineffective at locating mission runners, missions/agents providing extremely high ISK/hour in perfectly secure space, etc. etc. Additionally there isn't any reason for players to live/exist in low sec systems. The rewards are trivial and the risk is indeed high. Once players transfer into 0.0 the majority of the time you see large groups of players huddled together in one or two systems, with the other 95% of 0.0 systems remaining extremely unpopulated. When I was getting 20-30 kills a day, they were mostly BSs flown by fairly high SP characters (10-15m SP or more) and I was usually able to catch them at a gate or at the station or what not, even though I had to endure being shot by the gate/station guns. I think that if players with neutral or positive security status were allowed to engage any player with less than 0 security status in low sec without losing security status, and able to pod any player with -5.0 or less security status with no loss of security standing themselves would be a HUGE help in promoting more anti-pirate activity (and therefore more population and more fun PVP in lowsec). I personally find it disgusting that players won't engage in PVP just because they might lose a tenth of a point of security status or something. I think the answer to the problem is a multi-tiered approach: 1. increase lowsec rewards dramatically. 2. decrease highsec rewards by a small amount, especially by putting all of the highest earning activities in lowsec (L4 agents etc.) and spreading out agents and things instead of grouping them in one system/station. 3. change the ROE for shooting players with positive/negative security standing as stated above. 4. remove local and have a constallation chat only, so that both sides arn't instantly notified of an ambush or impending attack. 5. fix probes so that they are finally useable to detect mission runners effectively. Right now mission runners are basically 100% safe from being probed out while on a mission. This is a PVP game. If you're going to be flying in lowsec, you shouldn't be surprised or dismayed if you get attacked there while doing whatever you're doing at the time (missions etc.). Conversely, the rewards should be big enough to justify the risk. Right now the only sensible thing is to jump directly from empire to a 0.0 corporation/alliance and skip lowsec completely. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Teinyhr Minmatar United Systems Navy	Posted - 2007.01.22 12:04:00 - [139] Originally by: Bellum Eternus 5. fix probes so that they are finally useable to detect mission runners effectively. Right now mission runners are basically 100% safe from being probed out while on a mission. WTF? Shall I probe you out and kick you in the head while you're doing some gardening? And actually this hasn't always been like this, the deadspace areas got "probeprotected" because of "rogue salvagers" who probed out other people's mission sites and salvaged the wrecks they left behind - which would have been fine if they would have just asked, most of the time. ------------------- Originally by: Smagd Besides, specialization is for insects.
Mesacc Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.22 12:44:00 - [140] Originally by: Bellum Eternus This is a PVP game. You see, thats where your wrong. This is a game. A game that suports PvP and PvE. Some like PvP only, some like PvE only, some like both. I happen to like both, but like I said earlier in this thread, Untill I can go into lowsec and fight back when I get attacked without it screwing up my standings with my agents, im staying in highsec. The game seems to be made to where once you PvP, you cant do anything else. Change that and I bet you will see alot more people in lowsec.

Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 14:20:00 - [141] My opinion, as someone that has practiced both sides. Increase reward will achieve nothing. Problem is with the risk reward equation . Why there are no or almost no pirates in high sec? Because their risk is too high, almost 100%. Why are almsot no vivtims in low sec.. caouse their risk is too high. People should have a mid term where both can do what they want even try to kill others but with lower risk. How? How in hell do you do that? Well some proposals might be made. Juste read this one up to end for example: When someone engages other in low sec. A ship of the sovereignt faction will depart from closest high sec gate (possible variation is deduct a cost form the account of the one being agressed), and steam full speed to there. Arriving there, if the combat is still on it will engage but not SHOOT the hotile, Only Jam him, making the target free. About a minute later it releases the offending party giving him a fee (the reduction in security stats and possibly a fee if his stats are already too low). What this would acomplish? Would be safer to anyone not hunting, but still possible to hunt. And if you are caught hunting you will not be vaporized. Both parts may have enough fun. So if you are jumped you just have to hold on. Fight back and survive for some time and you will likely live, that if you don't sux! Same way pirates must select prays they can kill fast. The result? Pirates wont engage everything on sight and low sec can be slowly repopulated. This also makes long term camps at low sec not likely since patroll ships would pay a visit and keep you jammed and scrambled. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 14:26:00 - [142] Originally by: Mortimer Phinn Originally by: Edde Bebbi The problem is, and always has been, that the highest rewards are in high sec empire (lev4s) and 0.0 (everything else). Putting level 4 missions in safe empire is the reason low sec is as unsafe as it is. Simple. I dont hunt in low sec, I am not a pirate, I dont CARE how many ganks I get. But while lev4s are in highsec, the 'hardcore' carebears will stay there, and they are the only group organised enough to make lowsec safe enough for heavy population. As it stands, anything you can do in lowsec you can do safer in 0.0 or Empire. Therefore lowsec is ONLY for noobs, travellers and pirates. See the thing is, I log in for an hour or so after dinner wanting to run some missions, however with your wonderful plan, I get to spend that hour trying to find someone to organize with me so we can spend my valuable in-game time chasing children instead of running my 1-2 missions and logging for the evening. Empire is filled with people like me, paying 15 dollars a month to play the game the way we want, not the way you want. if you only do that, you really don't need the best reward form the level 4 agents do you? You could work very well with only very low grade lvl 4. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Jayson Lee	Posted - 2007.01.22 14:50:00 - [143] Changing the rewards for high and low sec wont solve the problem. All that it will do is increase the population in the short term until more people turn to the life of a pirate, driving the population back down. They way things stand right now you cant make low sec rewarding enough to bring new players in, the risk is still too high. If you nerf high sec to make it less desirable, then people will just skip low sec and move to 0.0 space. Changing the sec hits people get wont help either, simply because some pirates will rat until they have a high sec status, then giving them the free reign to hunt anyone lower than them. The only way to make low sec more attractive is to make it safer. To do this without nerfing pirates, you need to make controlling a system a benefit. Either with approved combat/warning for those in controll, or giving money to those that own the system, preferably by giving the controlling corp a percentage of all business down in that system.
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2007.01.22 15:50:00 - [144] Quote: The more experienced players don't hang around in lowsec when they can just join a corp/alliance that is already in deep 0.0 space and offers much better rewards in terms of minerals and NPCs. The Empire guys just sit and run missions and avoid traveling into lowsec systems whenever possible. This is like the hunter wondering why, after camping a game trail for a year, there is less and less game each passing month. The game mechanics are making things too easy to grief. Fine the original OP may be one of those actual people who pvp's without griefing, but most of the time it's not them hunting you down. 0.0 corps offer protection in numbers....high sec offers protection of concord (to some extent). I agree there should be more incentive for low sec play....but you can't have it both ways. Very little incentive is going to get people there if it remains a game trail for the predators.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.01.22 15:54:00 - [145] Nerfing high sec or moving all lev 4 missions into low sec will not help you anywhere. If you nerf high sec and I dont have anything to do there in reasonably stress free enviroment then I will just swallow my medicine and go to 0.0. Nerfing high sec will not give me any reason whatever to move into low sec so it's not a solution. It's not like a player who can run level 4 missions would not survive in 0.0 in more profitable way. And solo players would just quit ofcource.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 15:55:00 - [146] Originally by: Vladikov Orrico Quote: The more experienced players don't hang around in lowsec when they can just join a corp/alliance that is already in deep 0.0 space and offers much better rewards in terms of minerals and NPCs. The Empire guys just sit and run missions and avoid traveling into lowsec systems whenever possible. This is like the hunter wondering why, after camping a game trail for a year, there is less and less game each passing month. The game mechanics are making things too easy to grief. Fine the original OP may be one of those actual people who pvp's without griefing, but most of the time it's not them hunting you down. 0.0 corps offer protection in numbers....high sec offers protection of concord (to some extent). I agree there should be more incentive for low sec play....but you can't have it both ways. Very little incentive is going to get people there if it remains a game trail for the predators. I must say.. you have no clue... The 99% of PVPers are not there for griefign.. they do not care for you or your opinion. Even Ginger MAgician is not a griefer (although he is a pain in the 1#!#!@#!@). Most are there for the excitment of the hunt. Because it is addicting, since its part of human nature. Griefign would be someone in a BS jump in scramble or cruiser and sit there.. not killing you neither leting you go.... If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Blindscythe	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:06:00 - [147] Don't know if this has been mentioned, or whether its a viable option, but what about increasing the amount of anti-pirates/bounty hunters by adding a mission incentive of sorts? As your security status drops, you immediately receive a bounty (based on sec. status x whatever cost) from an NPC corp, which can be claimed by a bounty hunter via kill and return to the NPC agent? Just throwing that in there. May help to clean out a few nasties and allow a greater flexibility for previously classed as 'prey'
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:10:00 - [148] Best solution allow the Empire players free access to low sec for one month. That is No attacking them, no scamming, ripping them off, any of that. Let them get engulfed with the region, then come back. Of course the above was just another solution, to a problem that CCP/You/me/us, cannot fix. And its going to go the same place all the other "My solution to fix low-sec" threads have gone.... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Mortimer Phinn	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:22:00 - [149] I love the OP, he kills 30 ships a day and then wonders why nobody comes to low sec anymore. Looking at this over a period of a week, you get 210 victims vs. 1 pirate. Maybe the easy solution is to get rid of the 1 guy making the game miserable for 210?
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:24:00 - [150] Well I am happy with 4 kills per day :) If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!

Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:25:00 - [151] Edited by: Roshan longshot on 22/01/2007 16:22:00 Stupid forum bugs..... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Jayson Lee	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:26:00 - [152] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Vladikov Orrico Quote: The more experienced players don't hang around in lowsec when they can just join a corp/alliance that is already in deep 0.0 space and offers much better rewards in terms of minerals and NPCs. The Empire guys just sit and run missions and avoid traveling into lowsec systems whenever possible. This is like the hunter wondering why, after camping a game trail for a year, there is less and less game each passing month. The game mechanics are making things too easy to grief. Fine the original OP may be one of those actual people who pvp's without griefing, but most of the time it's not them hunting you down. 0.0 corps offer protection in numbers....high sec offers protection of concord (to some extent). I agree there should be more incentive for low sec play....but you can't have it both ways. Very little incentive is going to get people there if it remains a game trail for the predators. I must say.. you have no clue... The 99% of PVPers are not there for griefign.. they do not care for you or your opinion. Even Ginger MAgician is not a griefer (although he is a pain in the 1#!#!@#!@). Most are there for the excitment of the hunt. Because it is addicting, since its part of human nature. Griefign would be someone in a BS jump in scramble or cruiser and sit there.. not killing you neither leting you go.... How is killing some unarmed miner or hauler fun? There is no challenge, the only reason for the enjoyment is causing grief for someone who doesnt want anything to do with combat. I think you know what he is getting at and its important to understand that we all are for more pvp between those parties that want it. But nerfing high sec to force more "prey" into low sec wont work. It makes as much sense as nerfing pirates to promote low sec, are you for that? Just think about the numbers for a second. If you increase the pop of people in low sec and lets pretend that pirates wont increase in number (they will). How many people could 1 pirate kill in an hour? I am guessing that even if you increase low sec 100 fold you would still not reduce the risk enough to make it attractive to other players. You can adjust the rewards for high/low sec all you want but until you give characters a better way to protect low sec space you wont get the increase in numbers you want.
Jaedar Metron Deadly Alliance Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:27:00 - [153] I sign for these proposals... - The rats in lowsec might need a small boost, and they should be able to drop something rare, only found in these drops, once in a while (a low percentage chance). - Move 0.0 low-end ores that no one uses, and make them common in lowsec. Jaspet just isnt enough to bother arranging mining ops in this dangerous land - More lowsec belts! If every lowsec system had about 10 planets and 20 belts, there would be much more ground to cover for pirates hunting ratters/miners. Also, all lowsec systems should get a massive increase in size so you need to warp around 4 times before ou can scan the entire system using directional scanning. - Make pirates attackable without the sechit. This will encourage the rock-hard anti pirates into really wrecking havoc on pirate grounds, and at the same time, these will not get trapped. YES. Pirates would be able to rat their way back to positive. Most probably wont. We have griefers in starter systems. They are an annoyance, but really not a big problem. It will be the same for those few pirates that can be bothered to rat in 0.0 every few kills. Now for a little rant... What is low-sec? Pirates spawning grounds? It is in this age. Currently lowsec is far too risky compared to its rewards. A player who want to get a battleship, but does not want to be a part of the 0.0, only have one option left: High sec. Lowsec is neither profitable enough nor safe enough. His ship (presumably battlecruiser) would always negate all profits made in lowsec when it's lost to PC pirates. Think about this: A player, around three months old, can probably fly a battlecruiser fairly well. But lowsec wont cut it for him if he need money for better fitting/ship. Now, if the rats in lowsec had this small percentage chance of dropping something really good, he could equip his BC, or even a cruiser with a PvP fitting, and go rat the lowsec rats. (yes, PvP fitting. The rats in lowsec is pathetic, even a low skilled character can rat them with a PvP fitting). This would make them able to fight back if attacked, and maybe even win. The pilot has the extra edge of not having to equip a scrambler too, all he needs to do is drive the pirate away so he can escape. What would this fix, you ask? Here's the point. If a pilot manages to get such a rare drop, he can hurry to a station and drop it off/sell it. He can now pat himself on the back and think "Job well done, if I lose this Cruiser now, it wont matter. This stuff will cover the costs and still leave room for my Battleship Fund " Increased size of the lowsec systems also makes it harder for a pirate to find these aspiring Pilots. Remember what I said about the PvP fitting? Now rewind and make this TWO aspiring pilots. It would still be profitable for both of them (twice as fast rating, more probability of a rare drop) and it would make the even safer against PC pirates. Now make it a ratting operation. 10 guys from the same corporation, all in PvP fitting, striving to get a bunch of rare drops. You get my point, no? Mining would still need a fairly big group of pilots to do effectively, but the better ore will at least make it worthwhile. Thanks alot for reading my long post, really appreciate it -Jaedar Metron, the friendly pirate of Seyllin and Ane. P.S I'm lucky if I even FIND a target these days... 1 ransom last week
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.22 16:57:00 - [154] Originally by: Jaedar Metron Now, if the rats in lowsec had this small percentage chance of dropping something really good Am I the only one who's ever had an officer spawn in a 0.1 system? Actually, I had one in a 0.2 and one in a 0.1 about six months ago. Cruiser spawns. Did they change them?
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:23:00 - [155] Originally by: BurnHard Originally by: Jaedar Metron Now, if the rats in lowsec had this small percentage chance of dropping something really good Am I the only one who's ever had an officer spawn in a 0.1 system? Actually, I had one in a 0.2 and one in a 0.1 about six months ago. Cruiser spawns. Did they change them? I've only ever had 1 officer spawn (a frigate- w00t!) and that was in .3 or something similar. All my time in 0.0 hasn't wielded one yet -----------------------------------------------
Jaedar Metron Deadly Alliance Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:38:00 - [156] Ah yes, the faction and officer spawns. They are TOO rare, and they appear in the entire universe. Faction spawns are 1 each day/each system, no clue about officers. I'm more talking about maybe a 0.1% chance of getting something really nice from every rat you kill in lowsec ONLY (what would the point be if you had the same shot at the nice drop everywhere?) This would mean that statistically you would get 1 item every 1000 kills in lowsec. This is kind of severe... But that is if your unlucky. You can just as might end up with 100 rare drops after 100 kills (extremely lucky) as you can end up with 0 /100kills (unlucky) So if the player I used in my example is really lucky he can do good one day and not even lose his ship in the process, and do really bad another day and lose ship and gets podded at the same time. -Jaedar
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:52:00 - [157] Edited by: Taedrin on 22/01/2007 17:48:48 Carebears will move to low sec, IFF net ISK gained in low sec is greater than net ISK gained in high sec. Or rather, IFF: (lowSecIncome - lowSecCosts) > (highSecIncome - highSecCosts). As such, we have 4 seperate ways to try to herd carebears into lowsec: Increase low-sec reward (higher lowSecIncome) Lower low-sec risk (lower lowSecCosts) Lower high-sec reward (lower highSecIncome) Increase high-sec risk (higher highSecCosts) Option 2 is not wanted by pirates, but wanted by carebears. Options 3 and 4 are not wanted by carebears, but wanted by pirates. Option 1 seems to be tolerable to both parties. Make of it what you will...
Gretek Lal Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:01:00 - [158] I don't have a lot of time to play. An hour here and there. Since mining is mainly what I do, it would take me weeks to save enough to replace my Osprey if it gets destroyed by lo-sec gate campers. So why bother to even try to go to lo-sec? If CCP provided many more gates into lo-sec systems, maybe.
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:28:00 - [159] Edited by: Tanis Bastar on 22/01/2007 18:25:25 Originally by: Taedrin As such, we have 4 seperate ways to try to herd carebears into lowsec: Increase low-sec reward (higher lowSecIncome) Lower low-sec risk (lower lowSecCosts) Lower high-sec reward (lower highSecIncome) Increase high-sec risk (higher highSecCosts) Option 2 is not wanted by pirates, but wanted by carebears. Options 3 and 4 are not wanted by carebears, but wanted by pirates. Option 1 seems to be tolerable to both parties. I think the suggestion to not give sec rating hits for negative sec rating targets would reduce lo-sec risk (ie, Option 2) by encouraging anti-pirate behavior. And most pirates don't seem to complain about this idea, maybe because it gives them the PvP that they want (albeit vs. someone that fights back).
Amaron Ghant Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:32:00 - [160] The Op and "pirates" like him are the reason people don¦t flock to low sec. It says you can be a "Pirate" on the box, it doesn¦t say people have to queue up to be your "victim". CCP is not to blame for the current situation. Players are. Pirates for feeding to often at the trough, and other players for getting tired of throwing isk and standings away to keep the "pew pew yarrrr" crowd happy. Adapt , overcome, or go play frogger.

Kolwrath	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:39:00 - [161] Originally by: Jaedar Metron I sign for these proposals... - The rats in lowsec might need a small boost, and they should be able to drop something rare, only found in these drops, once in a while (a low percentage chance). Uhhh those already exist. They are called officer spawns and they are VERY rare. They drop faction loot. I have been playing for a year now and have seen two. One in 0.5 and one in 0.7, both frigates who dropped one faction item each. Originally by: Jaedar Metron I sign for these proposals... - Move 0.0 low-end ores that no one uses, and make them common in lowsec. Jaspet just isnt enough to bother arranging mining ops in this dangerous land Apparently CCP tried moving more profitable ores to low sec already. No jaspet in empire was not always the case from what I have read. They moved it to encourage lowsec mining but it did not work did it? Originally by: Jaedar Metron I sign for these proposals... - More lowsec belts! If every lowsec system had about 10 planets and 20 belts, there would be much more ground to cover for pirates hunting ratters/miners. Also, all lowsec systems should get a massive increase in size so you need to warp around 4 times before ou can scan the entire system using directional scanning. How will this help? I fail to see how more ground to cover will increase low sec miners. It will be the same as it is now ... just a couple more secs to warp to a SS and sit there for an hour while you wait for the pirate to search every belt, search again, and then get bored and leave. Meanwhile two hours have passed and the isk per hour of your low sec venture is lower than mining veldspar in 1.0. Originally by: Jaedar Metron I sign for these proposals... - Make pirates attackable without the sechit. This will encourage the rock-hard anti pirates into really wrecking havoc on pirate grounds, and at the same time, these will not get trapped. YES. Pirates would be able to rat their way back to positive. Most probably wont. We have griefers in starter systems. They are an annoyance, but really not a big problem. It will be the same for those few pirates that can be bothered to rat in 0.0 every few kills. Good idea, but that will only encourage anti-pirates who honeslty are few and far between. Everyone else will still get ganked right and left and thus not populate the area, just like the situation is right now. Originally by: Jaedar Metron I sign for these proposals... Think about this: A player, around three months old, can probably fly a battlecruiser fairly well. But lowsec wont cut it for him if he need money for better fitting/ship. Well said, and quoted for truth. Low sec is plain not worth the risk for the average joe-capsuler. That, and the low penalty for bieng a pirate (criminal) is the main source of the problem in my opinion. Just my 0.2 isk
Hauler McTote	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:40:00 - [162] Boost Ores/Belts a bit and ratting. Add something unique to LowSec, I dunno maybe a small chance every time a rock is popped that something good/cool/lucrative occurs. No Sec hit for -Sec targets. Boost ALL LowSec stations and Services, ALL of them. Create Mining vessels that can have a decent tank. Improve their drone capacity. A Retriever is almost insta popped by Anything... these would probably go a long way to helping.
vr0p Gallente Hatori Mining Services	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:52:00 - [163] As a semi-lowsec resident (currently breaking to high-sec to try out lvl 4s), I don't understand most of these complaints about it, e.g. "too risky" or "I can't fire back". I assume most of these "too risky" complaints are coming from low-sec Caldari space, because where I am, low-sec is empty... I mined Hemorphite for 6 hours before I saw someone in local passing through. Eventually a gang of 5 pirates came in system, and there was plenty of time to dock my barge. I haul my ore every 12,000m3 or so, so even if they were to blow up the jetcan, there's not much loss compared to gains (sidenote: they didn't blow the can). Secondly, the "I can't fire back" argument is silly. People I guess don't understand the rules of engagement? If a -5.0 or below pirate decides to hunt me down, I open fire first and there is no penalty (other than the normal can't jump/dock). If you are so absolutely attached to your shiny 1.2 security rating that took a year to get up, you can buy a cheap ship (tier 1 industrial for instance) and just let a pirate shoot at it (15 min kill rights for you) or blow it up (1 month kill rights for you). Security status is very easy to recover from... the higher it gets, the slower it raises, and vice versa. So you can imagine once you get into the negatives, just how quickly it goes back up. I've seen a few local pirates change into industrial corps because their pirate corp changed region, and in a few weeks have gone from ~-9.0 to around ~-2.0.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:16:00 - [164] Why is 0.0 mostly empty? because there is so much of it. If you add a ton of lowsec systems people will explore. If you generate it they will come. Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:17:00 - [165] "Something needs to be done to re-populate low-sec." Why? So you can have more targets is a pretty hard sell to those who would be the potential targets. But after 6 pages you can probably already tell that. I'm still waiting for the "repopulate low-sec" thread that doesn't include "nerf highsec" in it. Still waiting... ------------------- ... [OK] ... zOMG!
Daos Leghki Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:51:00 - [166] Originally by: Roy Batty68 I'm still waiting for the "repopulate low-sec" thread that doesn't include "nerf highsec" in it. Still waiting... Here you go
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 19:59:00 - [167] Originally by: Daos Leghki Originally by: Roy Batty68 I'm still waiting for the "repopulate low-sec" thread that doesn't include "nerf highsec" in it. Still waiting... Here you go hey I know you Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
Daos Leghki Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:04:00 - [168] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin hey I know you \o/
Cmdr Sy Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:14:00 - [169] Why not make systems bigger? OK, people simply travelling would be in warp for a few seconds longer, but at least the appearance of an unfamiliar player in Local would give the residents time to decide whether they have enough firepower to carry on with their mission / mining op. And maybe reinforce it. It's a bit silly how you can jump in and oh look, 75% of the belts are clustered around one planet, and often it's in scan range. Logoffs on Fraps
Daos Leghki Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:22:00 - [170] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Why not make systems bigger? OK, people simply travelling would be in warp for a few seconds longer, but at least the appearance of an unfamiliar player in Local would give the residents time to decide whether they have enough firepower to carry on with their mission / mining op. And maybe reinforce it. It's a bit silly how you can jump in and oh look, 75% of the belts are clustered around one planet, and often it's in scan range. The man speaks the truth. The hardest systems to scan are the ones where only the first few planets are within scanner range and the belts are spread evenly with 2-3 belts per planet. A royal pain to scan, and gives someone much more time to notice you in local. Whether that's enough to encourage people to go to low-sec, I don't know, but it certainly could be part of a solution.

Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:31:00 - [171] Originally by: Daos Leghki Originally by: Roy Batty68 I'm still waiting for the "repopulate low-sec" thread that doesn't include "nerf highsec" in it. Still waiting... Here you go Aye, just saw that one. Pretty interesting ideas. o/ ------------------- ... [OK] ... zOMG!
Soporo	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:40:00 - [172] People get into a lather about this Topic, But almost everyone knowledgeable about EVE (both sides of the coin) agrees it needs looking into in a serious way. Can anyone point us to a Dev comment (recent or not), that makes any kind of statement about the state of LowSec as is? Would there be a possibility to get a dev to comment on this thread, please? Tell us to sthu. tell us it's fine. Tell us it needs some tweeks. tell us you have some ideas and plan. Tell us LowSec?? What's that? Please just tell us something we can hang onto so we don't re-hash this damn thing over and over again. Thanks.
Syrec Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:43:00 - [173] Edited by: Syrec on 22/01/2007 20:39:56 Low sec can be just as dangerous as 0.0 with more stations, but with fairly poor rewards. To populate it you either need to up the rewards or change how flagging/kill rights work. Bounty hunters cannot fully hunt pirates without risking sec hits to themselves. Until a change low sec remains a high risk low reward area of space where the rules make it harder for prey to seek revenge on predators. atm you're better off going to 0.0 or waging corp/alliance war.
Jaedar Metron Deadly Alliance Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2007.01.22 21:27:00 - [174] Originally by: Kolwrath Uhhh those already exist. They are called officer spawns and they are VERY rare. They drop faction loot. I have been playing for a year now and have seen two. One in 0.5 and one in 0.7, both frigates who dropped one faction item each. Yes, too rare. An officer spawn spawns ONCE a day. This is not enough to make lowsec worth it at all. I'm not saying teh new "presents" should negate the officer spawns. After all, we are talking about faction items here. I just want lowsec to be profitable enough to make a player not worry about the damage pirates do to him that much. Alternatively the bounties on the rats can be incresed, but with that comes bigger rats, and if you have to lose a battleship while ratting spawns in lowsec, its kinda countering its desired effect Originally by: Kolwrath Apparently CCP tried moving more profitable ores to low sec already. No jaspet in empire was not always the case from what I have read. They moved it to encourage lowsec mining but it did not work did it? Well no one is using the lowend ores in 0.0 anyways. I'm not saying this will solve the problem, I'm saying it will help, just as the the better ratdrops. Originally by: Kolwrath How will this help? I fail to see how more ground to cover will increase low sec miners. It will be the same as it is now ... just a couple more secs to warp to a SS and sit there for an hour while you wait for the pirate to search every belt, search again, and then get bored and leave. Meanwhile two hours have passed and the isk per hour of your low sec venture is lower than mining veldspar in 1.0. I'm a pirate, so I know this. More ground to cover is a pain in the ass. More ground to cover will mean I will have to warp around more to be able to scan all the belts. More belts spread on many planets will mean even more warps for me to do before I have scanned the system. The prey can make lots of things happen in that time Originally by: Kolwrath Good idea, but that will only encourage anti-pirates who honeslty are few and far between. Everyone else will still get ganked right and left and thus not populate the area, just like the situation is right now. You might have a point. But perhaps this will encourage more people to hop into the anti-pirate profession? Apparently some pirates are using pretty expensive mods, so it could be wery lucrative. Originally by: Kolwrath Well said, and quoted for truth. Low sec is plain not worth the risk for the average joe-capsuler. That, and the low penalty for bieng a pirate (criminal) is the main source of the problem in my opinion. Just my 0.2 isk And if you read the rest of my post you could see how my proposed changes will help this pilot -JM
Jaguar Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2007.01.22 23:03:00 - [175] lol, i'm repeating what i said in my quote #86,, turn the bloody map red,, make it all 0.0 then there will be fun lolol but realy, alot of players would leave eve, its a solved problem if ccp removes the sec standing loss i would suffer from killing any low sec standing player or one who has a bounty on him. lots of players would then enter low sec to fight and try to move them out and take over that low sec system,, thats what is needed to repopulate. not just have players playing part time in low sec.. you want them living there. and the only way to achieve this is what i have suggested.. moving lvl4 agents to low sec lol, that will just cause alot of players to simply leave eve for good. and if you think about it, there shouldn't be npc corps or agents in low low sec, or 0.0..npc corps if this were real life would only be operating in a system that had some security. and low low sec and 0.0 has none. so there should be no agents and no missions given in these sec lvl systems. again its 1 simple fix. remove the security standing loss i'll take if i kill anyone anywhere in game that has a negative sec standing and or a bounty on him.and i want to kill him even in 1.0, without concord helping the pirate.. he is an outlaw and should NOT be protected
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.22 23:19:00 - [176] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Why not make systems bigger? OK, people simply travelling would be in warp for a few seconds longer, but at least the appearance of an unfamiliar player in Local would give the residents time to decide whether they have enough firepower to carry on with their mission / mining op. And maybe reinforce it. It's a bit silly how you can jump in and oh look, 75% of the belts are clustered around one planet, and often it's in scan range. The whole problem is local. Increase the size of the systems, but remove local. Using local as an intel tool to flee from danger is a broken game mechanic, and has even been stated as such by the Development Team. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Soporo	Posted - 2007.01.22 23:28:00 - [177] Would love to see a Dev, or even a Mod comment on this issue. How likely this is, I don't know...
Forum Troll	Posted - 2007.01.22 23:36:00 - [178] Really, anything to push people out of Empire into Low Sec and Zero Sec at this point would make me happy. Hell, start with little incentives for going outside of Empire and also add in some small penalties that make Empire less appealing. I know CCP did not envision Zero Sec to be the way it is today when they first implemented it in the game.
Jayson Lee	Posted - 2007.01.23 00:24:00 - [179] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Cmdr Sy Why not make systems bigger? OK, people simply travelling would be in warp for a few seconds longer, but at least the appearance of an unfamiliar player in Local would give the residents time to decide whether they have enough firepower to carry on with their mission / mining op. And maybe reinforce it. It's a bit silly how you can jump in and oh look, 75% of the belts are clustered around one planet, and often it's in scan range. The whole problem is local. Increase the size of the systems, but remove local. Using local as an intel tool to flee from danger is a broken game mechanic, and has even been stated as such by the Development Team. How will this help? All it does is give no warning to belt miners of the danger. That wont make more people come to low sec. It just helps pirates.
Damionte	Posted - 2007.01.23 02:58:00 - [180] The problem isn't to try and attract more prey. The problem is to have less hunters. As has been said a few times the pirates have done thier job too well. Like in all of nature you have to have more prey than you have predators. Right now we have too many rpedators. Not enough prey though to go around. So the predators need to start dieng off. If the predators need peopel to shoot at the solution is to eat the other pirates. A pirate war is what is needed. Thin the ranks of the pirates to the point where it's safe enough for the non combatnats to travel in low space. The remaining pirates will then begin to feed again. Kill any other pirates you see. Keep killing them till they give up the trade.

Forum Troll	Posted - 2007.01.23 03:03:00 - [181] Removing local, which is the most unrealistic, dumb, ignorant, stupid game mechanic I have ever seen in any MMOG ever since the creation of the genre would be a HUGE advancement in Eve. How * is it that you can *** see other people in the same system just because of a chat system? ***** stupid.
Nalar Marnith Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.23 04:00:00 - [182] A relatively simple thing to do would be police patrols (not proper concord, local cops or something of the like). Hell even the wild west had some form of law enforcement. Being a bit of a pirate myself, this would have to be worked pretty carefully so as not to destroy solo piracy. Maybe have them patrol the belts sequentially... In all honesty, I think people will come back to low sec. I've not seen many pirates in my lowsec travels (nor targets) and it's only a matter of time before people find low sec inviting enough to come back. Then we can kill them
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.23 08:15:00 - [183] Originally by: Mortimer Phinn I love the OP, he kills 30 ships a day and then wonders why nobody comes to low sec anymore. Looking at this over a period of a week, you get 210 victims vs. 1 pirate. Maybe the easy solution is to get rid of the 1 guy making the game miserable for 210? -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:16:00 - [184] Originally by: Nalar Marnith In all honesty, I think people will come back to low sec. I've not seen many pirates in my lowsec travels (nor targets) and it's only a matter of time before people find low sec inviting enough to come back. Then we can kill them See this is where all of these threads demonstrate the bad AI of the poster. These "targets" you talk about aren't Python scripted NPCs, they are running wet-ware. It's called a Brain. None of them want to be killed. Is this concept too hard to understand? The issue is the fundamental incompatibility between these two forms of game-play. There is nothing you can do to change the situation without removing either one or the other from the game.
Demon Johnson Federation of Synthetic Persons YouWhat	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:20:00 - [185] Just expand killrights to all members for an alliance in low sec. So semi-carebears can form an alliance and when somebody blew a member up, the alliance¦s navy can strike back within a week without sec hit.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:22:00 - [186] Originally by: Demon Johnson Just expand killrights to all members for an alliance in low sec. So semi-carebears can form an alliance and when somebody blew a member up, the alliance¦s navy can strike back within a week without sec hit. Yes, I asked for this some time ago. Kill-rights need to be pooled.
Pilok Shitfly	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:37:00 - [187] Originally by: BurnHard Originally by: Demon Johnson Just expand killrights to all members for an alliance in low sec. So semi-carebears can form an alliance and when somebody blew a member up, the alliance¦s navy can strike back within a week without sec hit. Yes, I asked for this some time ago. Kill-rights need to be pooled. As many said before, you should be able to kill a player with negative standing without a sec hit. And local really should be removed, it makes hunting pirates and pirates hunting the rest much more fun
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.01.23 10:10:00 - [188] As it stands, the resources available in lowsec can either A:Be found in Hisec with little to no risk B:Be found in Nullsec in far greater quantities with identical (and in some cases less) risk Lowsec simply needs a resource that can be found in neither hisec or nullsec so that the value of this resource scales directly with the risk involved in gathering it (more pirates= more risk = less people gathering = value goes up). Introducing booster harvesting uniquely to lowsec would have been perfect, but that ship has sailed.
Gary Payne	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:10:00 - [189] want a solution? give all ships the abaility to jump in an out of 0.0 just like carriers do. well soon have 0.0 populated then. :D having to use gates is soo annoying.. when we jump we should be able to lock onto a gate that we are going to jump to thus appearing at that gate.. it wont ruin the game.. it will mean ppl would actually have to look before they leap. and of course make it use fuel just like normal jump drives do with a long cool down for reuse..
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:14:00 - [190] Originally by: Gary Payne want a solution? give all ships the abaility to jump in an out of 0.0 just like carriers do. well soon have 0.0 populated then. :D having to use gates is soo annoying.. when we jump we should be able to lock onto a gate that we are going to jump to thus appearing at that gate.. it wont ruin the game.. it will mean ppl would actually have to look before they leap. and of course make it use fuel just like normal jump drives do with a long cool down for reuse.. Trying to read your post made my eyes melt. Contemplating what you wrote made my brain melt.

hired goon Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:17:00 - [191] You pirates have to understand, that if you make lowsec more appealing it will simply attract large, organised corps who want to take advantage of it; not loner miners or mission runners you can take advantage of. And always remember - if there are more people to pirate, there will be more pirates. And if there are more pirates there will be less people to pirate. By trying to force there to be victims for you, you're going against what makes people even play in the first place. It's impossible, you can't make this work. -omg-
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:21:00 - [192] Originally by: hired goon You pirates have to understand, that if you make lowsec more appealing it will simply attract large, organised corps who want to take advantage of it; not loner miners or mission runners you can take advantage of. Good? Some of us pirate to be pirates and stay out of 0.0 because there are no laws there to break. A bit of organised crime in low-sec sounds like fun
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:13:00 - [193] Originally by: BurnHard Originally by: Nalar Marnith In all honesty, I think people will come back to low sec. I've not seen many pirates in my lowsec travels (nor targets) and it's only a matter of time before people find low sec inviting enough to come back. Then we can kill them See this is where all of these threads demonstrate the bad AI of the poster. These "targets" you talk about aren't Python scripted NPCs, they are running wet-ware. It's called a Brain. None of them want to be killed. Is this concept too hard to understand? The issue is the fundamental incompatibility between these two forms of game-play. There is nothing you can do to change the situation without removing either one or the other from the game. QFT As I wrote elsewhere:If you want the majority of current Empire dwellers to venture into low sec you will need to adjust the reward /and/ the risk. Sadly I think a lot of pirates won't enjoy blowing up ships if they know that the owner can get it replaced immediately (all of it, as fitted) at the nearest station for a nominal cost. Until/unless that is implemented most Empire dwellers will stay where it's safe. Just to add:I don't like the idea of that feature but that's what I think would be needed. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:50:00 - [194] Originally by: Jayson Lee Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Vladikov Orrico Quote: The more experienced players don't hang around in lowsec when they can just join a corp/alliance that is already in deep 0.0 space and offers much better rewards in terms of minerals and NPCs. The Empire guys just sit and run missions and avoid traveling into lowsec systems whenever possible. This is like the hunter wondering why, after camping a game trail for a year, there is less and less game each passing month. The game mechanics are making things too easy to grief. Fine the original OP may be one of those actual people who pvp's without griefing, but most of the time it's not them hunting you down. 0.0 corps offer protection in numbers....high sec offers protection of concord (to some extent). I agree there should be more incentive for low sec play....but you can't have it both ways. Very little incentive is going to get people there if it remains a game trail for the predators. I must say.. you have no clue... The 99% of PVPers are not there for griefign.. they do not care for you or your opinion. Even Ginger MAgician is not a griefer (although he is a pain in the 1#!#!@#!@). Most are there for the excitment of the hunt. Because it is addicting, since its part of human nature. Griefign would be someone in a BS jump in scramble or cruiser and sit there.. not killing you neither leting you go.... How is killing some unarmed miner or hauler fun? There is no challenge, the only reason for the enjoyment is causing grief for someone who doesnt want anything to do with combat. I think you know what he is getting at and its important to understand that we all are for more pvp between those parties that want it. But nerfing high sec to force more "prey" into low sec wont work. It makes as much sense as nerfing pirates to promote low sec, are you for that? Just think about the numbers for a second. If you increase the pop of people in low sec and lets pretend that pirates wont increase in number (they will). How many people could 1 pirate kill in an hour? I am guessing that even if you increase low sec 100 fold you would still not reduce the risk enough to make it attractive to other players. You can adjust the rewards for high/low sec all you want but until you give characters a better way to protect low sec space you wont get the increase in numbers you want. because he want to get what you have in your ship? and don't be ridiculows to think you should be able to go mine ALONE in low se cina HAULEr. If you want to minealone in low sec, get a Battleship. A Nanophoon with 4 lasers and nanolows can get you out of any trouble faster than you can say wtf.... If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Mesacc Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:14:00 - [195] Here is a thought. What if you could select a distance to jump to the way you do when warping? When you jump through the gate have the option to select 10km, 20km, 50km, etc... That atleast could give players a chance.
Jayson Lee	Posted - 2007.01.23 20:47:00 - [196] [ Quote: quote=Kagura Nikon because he want to get what you have in your ship? and don't be ridiculows to think you should be able to go mine ALONE in low se cina HAULEr. If you want to minealone in low sec, get a Battleship. A Nanophoon with 4 lasers and nanolows can get you out of any trouble faster than you can say wtf.... When did i say that I should be able to haul or mine solo in low sec? I was only addressing the comment made ealier about how most pirates claim to want challengeing pvp as thier reason for nerfing high sec space to drive more people into low sec.
Soporo	Posted - 2007.01.23 21:08:00 - [197] Quote: If you want to minealone in low sec, get a Battleship. A Nanophoon with 4 lasers and nanolows can get you out of any trouble faster than you can say wtf.... The fact that people do this with warships is indicative of the need for a new class of mining vessel. Give us something tougher to ninja mine in.
Nadarius Chrome Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.23 23:40:00 - [198] You've overfished the area, wiped out game stocks, and killed your own business. Why should CCP interfere? It's self-balancing. If pirate numbers drop due to decreased targets, lowsec will become more viable for targets and stocks will eventually replenish (unless you've actually hunted them to extinction). Given that Eve is largely player-balanced, why would you expect CCP to interfere in this particular case? If they do, should they interfere to correct the current rise in low-grade mineral prices? How about the glut of implants on the market? Maybe the dominance of one alliance in 0.0? You want targets back in lowsec? How about you fix the issue yourself. Employ a catch-and-release policy, EG charge 1m ISK per month that someone's been playing to let them go. Make some friends in the area and gank other pirates to reduce competition. If you operate solo, make some sort of randomiser system, EG only attack players with an even number of letters in their name one day, odd numbers the next, or A-K one week, L-Z the next. Right now the situation is that lowsec = certain death. Maybe not the first time you enter, or the second, third, but eventually. The rewards in lowsec ARE worthwhile when balanced with a bit of risk, given that faction drops no longer seem to occur from mission rats and that lowsec ores are more valuable than highsec ones. It's the risk factor that's the problem, not the reward. YOU are the problem.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.01.23 23:50:00 - [199] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot As it stands, the resources available in lowsec can either A:Be found in Hisec with little to no risk B:Be found in Nullsec in far greater quantities with identical (and in some cases less) risk Lowsec simply needs a resource that can be found in neither hisec or nullsec so that the value of this resource scales directly with the risk involved in gathering it (more pirates= more risk = less people gathering = value goes up). Introducing booster harvesting uniquely to lowsec would have been perfect, but that ship has sailed. Amen ------------------- ... [OK] ... zOMG!
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.24 09:19:00 - [200] Originally by: hired goon You pirates have to understand, that if you make lowsec more appealing it will simply attract large, organised corps who want to take advantage of it; not loner miners or mission runners you can take advantage of. And always remember - if there are more people to pirate, there will be more pirates. And if there are more pirates there will be less people to pirate. By trying to force there to be victims for you, you're going against what makes people even play in the first place. It's impossible, you can't make this work. This is exactly my point. I don't care if the people who show up are a 'large organized corp.' That's just more stuff for me to shoot at. For some reason 99% of the posters in this thread seem to think that pirating/PVPing revolves around pirates (me) attacking 'helpless' weakling players that can't defend themselves. Nothing could be further from the truth. Yesterday I played bait with my Astarte and killed a T2 Raven, then his buddy jumped in with a Nos/Neut Geddon. I managed to slip away from his tackler and came back to attack his buddies Geddon and he came in with his replacement Raven (T2 again). I managed to pop the Geddon but the Raven got away. Today I managed to pop the same guy's Raven again, and he had a Dominix an Arazu and an Incursus (not that the frig really matters) as backup. I had a buddy in a Hyperion as backup but the point still remains that this is the type of gameplay I'm interested in, not ganking helpless noobs. I like big fights against targets with more capability or numbers than myself. It makes it a challenge. The point I'm trying to make is that lately there have been almost zero players of any sort to shoot at, as they stay docked 100% of the time that they're not on some mission or jumping through a gate. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.

Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.24 09:22:00 - [201] Originally by: Jayson Lee Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Cmdr Sy Why not make systems bigger? OK, people simply travelling would be in warp for a few seconds longer, but at least the appearance of an unfamiliar player in Local would give the residents time to decide whether they have enough firepower to carry on with their mission / mining op. And maybe reinforce it. It's a bit silly how you can jump in and oh look, 75% of the belts are clustered around one planet, and often it's in scan range. The whole problem is local. Increase the size of the systems, but remove local. Using local as an intel tool to flee from danger is a broken game mechanic, and has even been stated as such by the Development Team. How will this help? All it does is give no warning to belt miners of the danger. That wont make more people come to low sec. It just helps pirates. Removing local is a double edged sword. Not only will you have less intel on pirates, but pirates will have less intel on everyone else, allowing anti-pirates to set up traps etc. Imagine a well tanked hauler and 5x cloaked BS sitting in a belt. Pirate warps in to kill the hauler, hauler scrams/webs pirate, BS uncloak and pop the pirate. If local existed, the pirate would be aware that the five other players were at least in the same system and probably wouldn't attack the bait. You non-pirate types need to start using your imaginations. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.24 09:33:00 - [202] Originally by: Bellum Eternus You non-pirate types need to start using your imaginations. You need to start being more realistic. How many players do you know who are going to sit cloaked in a belt potentially all day waiting for a pirate to come in and attack the hauler!? Removing local would make it easier for the hunter but put a much higher cognitive burden on the hunted. It's ok protecting mining ops in 0.0, but the reward in low sec just isn't high enough to justify the time and resources needed, with or without local.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.24 10:28:00 - [203] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Jayson Lee Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Vladikov Orrico Quote: The more experienced players don't hang around in lowsec when they can just join a corp/alliance that is already in deep 0.0 space and offers much better rewards in terms of minerals and NPCs. The Empire guys just sit and run missions and avoid traveling into lowsec systems whenever possible. This is like the hunter wondering why, after camping a game trail for a year, there is less and less game each passing month. The game mechanics are making things too easy to grief. Fine the original OP may be one of those actual people who pvp's without griefing, but most of the time it's not them hunting you down. 0.0 corps offer protection in numbers....high sec offers protection of concord (to some extent). I agree there should be more incentive for low sec play....but you can't have it both ways. Very little incentive is going to get people there if it remains a game trail for the predators. I must say.. you have no clue... The 99% of PVPers are not there for griefign.. they do not care for you or your opinion. Even Ginger MAgician is not a griefer (although he is a pain in the 1#!#!@#!@). Most are there for the excitment of the hunt. Because it is addicting, since its part of human nature. Griefign would be someone in a BS jump in scramble or cruiser and sit there.. not killing you neither leting you go.... How is killing some unarmed miner or hauler fun? There is no challenge, the only reason for the enjoyment is causing grief for someone who doesnt want anything to do with combat. I think you know what he is getting at and its important to understand that we all are for more pvp between those parties that want it. But nerfing high sec to force more "prey" into low sec wont work. It makes as much sense as nerfing pirates to promote low sec, are you for that? Just think about the numbers for a second. If you increase the pop of people in low sec and lets pretend that pirates wont increase in number (they will). How many people could 1 pirate kill in an hour? I am guessing that even if you increase low sec 100 fold you would still not reduce the risk enough to make it attractive to other players. You can adjust the rewards for high/low sec all you want but until you give characters a better way to protect low sec space you wont get the increase in numbers you want. because he want to get what you have in your ship? and don't be ridiculows to think you should be able to go mine ALONE in low se cina HAULEr. If you want to minealone in low sec, get a Battleship. A Nanophoon with 4 lasers and nanolows can get you out of any trouble faster than you can say wtf.... True, and will get you less isk that mining in high security some half decent ore. No cargo space (400 or so m3 of ores aren't even enough to refine), low quantity mined (about 400 m3/minute with 4 miner II and good skills), no jetcan mining (the pirate will take the ore or destroy it), no secure can as those in an unsecure system are a beacon saying "I will be there". So BS mining alone in an unsecure system is almost as fool as hauler/barge mining. It is different if you have a decent security in place.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.24 10:43:00 - [204] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: hired goon You pirates have to understand, that if you make lowsec more appealing it will simply attract large, organised corps who want to take advantage of it; not loner miners or mission runners you can take advantage of. And always remember - if there are more people to pirate, there will be more pirates. And if there are more pirates there will be less people to pirate. By trying to force there to be victims for you, you're going against what makes people even play in the first place. It's impossible, you can't make this work. This is exactly my point. I don't care if the people who show up are a 'large organized corp.' That's just more stuff for me to shoot at. For some reason 99% of the posters in this thread seem to think that pirating/PVPing revolves around pirates (me) attacking 'helpless' weakling players that can't defend themselves. Nothing could be further from the truth. Yesterday I played bait with my Astarte and killed a T2 Raven, then his buddy jumped in with a Nos/Neut Geddon. I managed to slip away from his tackler and came back to attack his buddies Geddon and he came in with his replacement Raven (T2 again). I managed to pop the Geddon but the Raven got away. Today I managed to pop the same guy's Raven again, and he had a Dominix an Arazu and an Incursus (not that the frig really matters) as backup. I had a buddy in a Hyperion as backup but the point still remains that this is the type of gameplay I'm interested in, not ganking helpless noobs. I like big fights against targets with more capability or numbers than myself. It makes it a challenge. The point I'm trying to make is that lately there have been almost zero players of any sort to shoot at, as they stay docked 100% of the time that they're not on some mission or jumping through a gate. Great: let's state my experiences: 2 shuttles (ALT explorying) 1 Retiever (barge) (and it was shot but escaped at least 4 other times) 2 industrials (shot at least another couple of times) 1 dominix 3 T1 frigates in the dawn of times (by BS) 2 brutix To those you can add 2 meeting BS vs BS with no ship loss. So in about 20 fights only 5 were between reasonably similar ships. To add, most of the avoided ones where attempt to gank an industrial or mining ship. You can like a thought figth, but the average pirate want a soft target possibly with a good cargo or valuable modules. Totally comprensible for them, but I think it is comprensible that the targets don't want to lose hundred of millions to make pirates happy.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.24 10:47:00 - [205] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Jayson Lee Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Vladikov Orrico Quote: The more experienced players don't hang around in lowsec when they can just join a corp/alliance that is already in deep 0.0 space and offers much better rewards in terms of minerals and NPCs. The Empire guys just sit and run missions and avoid traveling into lowsec systems whenever possible. This is like the hunter wondering why, after camping a game trail for a year, there is less and less game each passing month. The game mechanics are making things too easy to grief. Fine the original OP may be one of those actual people who pvp's without griefing, but most of the time it's not them hunting you down. 0.0 corps offer protection in numbers....high sec offers protection of concord (to some extent). I agree there should be more incentive for low sec play....but you can't have it both ways. Very little incentive is going to get people there if it remains a game trail for the predators. I must say.. you have no clue... The 99% of PVPers are not there for griefign.. they do not care for you or your opinion. Even Ginger MAgician is not a griefer (although he is a pain in the 1#!#!@#!@). Most are there for the excitment of the hunt. Because it is addicting, since its part of human nature. Griefign would be someone in a BS jump in scramble or cruiser and sit there.. not killing you neither leting you go.... How is killing some unarmed miner or hauler fun? There is no challenge, the only reason for the enjoyment is causing grief for someone who doesnt want anything to do with combat. I think you know what he is getting at and its important to understand that we all are for more pvp between those parties that want it. But nerfing high sec to force more "prey" into low sec wont work. It makes as much sense as nerfing pirates to promote low sec, are you for that? Just think about the numbers for a second. If you increase the pop of people in low sec and lets pretend that pirates wont increase in number (they will). How many people could 1 pirate kill in an hour? I am guessing that even if you increase low sec 100 fold you would still not reduce the risk enough to make it attractive to other players. You can adjust the rewards for high/low sec all you want but until you give characters a better way to protect low sec space you wont get the increase in numbers you want. because he want to get what you have in your ship? and don't be ridiculows to think you should be able to go mine ALONE in low se cina HAULEr. If you want to minealone in low sec, get a Battleship. A Nanophoon with 4 lasers and nanolows can get you out of any trouble faster than you can say wtf.... True, and will get you less isk that mining in high security some half decent ore. No cargo space (400 or so m3 of ores aren't even enough to refine), low quantity mined (about 400 m3/minute with 4 miner II and good skills), no jetcan mining (the pirate will take the ore or destroy it), no secure can as those in an unsecure system are a beacon saying "I will be there". So BS mining alone in an unsecure system is almost as fool as hauler/barge mining. It is different if you have a decent security in place. not true.. I would gladly make jet can mining. And if pirates started poping I would fit a compat Typhoon wait they come pop it (and so agro) for free attack (since my cute can would have a bookmark on it) But we surelly could have LARGE TECH 2 mining drones for massive mining. Would help a Typhoon mining a lot :) If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.24 10:53:00 - [206] Out of curiosity a question to the OP unrelated to the thread argument: The date of your first post is 20.1.2007, but I am sure to have read the same post (follewed by the same first reply or a very similar one) in december. You have reposted it or for some forum bug the date has changed? This isn't the only thread where I have seen this fenomenon, so I am curious.
Malcanis	Posted - 2007.01.24 11:41:00 - [207] Originally by: Forum Troll Removing local, which is the most unrealistic, dumb, ignorant, stupid game mechanic I have ever seen in any MMOG ever since the creation of the genre would be a HUGE advancement in Eve. How * is it that you can *** see other people in the same system just because of a chat system? ***** stupid. Actually it seems quite realistic to me. If you're connected to the "EVE internet" - chat channels, market, then the internet is connected to you. EVEping, EVEtracert... not to mention that you enter and leave through a gate which presumably can and does log the event into the local info net. Perhaps a skill tree which reduces the delay and increases the accuracy/level of information with which you see a new arrival enter local...?
Gefex Thunderbolts	Posted - 2007.01.24 13:03:00 - [208] We need safety in numbers, the way it should be, it is an MMO after all. But it just isnt the case with mining, barges are so weak, unless you fly a Hulk, but you'd be crazy to fly one in low sec. No matter how many ships you have defending you can't guarantee their safety. You can have a 20 man mining Op, yet a solo ganker in a nano'd up Vaga can fairly safely MWD up to a barge in the middle of a blob, take it out, then fly out again at 5000km/s before anyone has a chance to even react to it. Idea, make the new capital class mining ship carry a POS style shield, with say 10k HP's, a low rate of recharge and a fairly small radius that miners can sit inside in belts. It wouldnt do much against a few battleships, but it would stop solo griefers insta popping barges that are part of a bigger group before they have a chance to warp out.
Kalyster Section XIII	Posted - 2007.01.24 15:03:00 - [209] Increase the security status gain while ratting in low-sec, proportionaly to the system security status.
Gort Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.01.24 20:33:00 - [210] The local chat channel is a hugely important key to how Eve works. It needs to be more sophisticated, and perhaps perform differently in different classes of systems. For example, in 0.0 one might have no local channel entries at all, except for the following: 1) ships that have "broadcast" in the channel would appear 2) owners of sov in the system could choose to install Deep Space Surveillance Installations, which would give their member subscribers the info as to who is in the system. Different varieties might give different levels of performance. These systems might need fuel, or crews (and crew changes from time to time) -- who knows? My 0.02, Gorty Low-tech sig: "When in doubt, empty the magazine."

Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.25 02:28:00 - [211] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I think that if players with neutral or positive security status were allowed to engage any player with less than 0 security status in low sec without losing security status, and able to pod any player with -5.0 or less security status with no loss of security standing themselves would be a HUGE help in promoting more anti-pirate activity (and therefore more population and more fun PVP in lowsec). I personally find it disgusting that players won't engage in PVP just because they might lose a tenth of a point of security status or something. Loosing it isn't so much the problem as getting it back - but if you make getting it back too easy, then no one will be negative. it's a catch 22. The solution is to change the rules of engagement. I think the answer to the problem is a multi-tiered approach: Originally by: Bellum Eternus 1. increase lowsec rewards dramatically. Risk/reward is not the issue so much as "effort/rewards". Originally by: Bellum Eternus 2. decrease highsec rewards by a small amount, especially by putting all of the highest earning activities in lowsec (L4 agents etc.) and spreading out agents and things instead of grouping them in one system/station. All this will do is increase the relative cost of PVP and force even more people out of low sec. Originally by: Bellum Eternus 3. change the ROE for shooting players with positive/negative security standing as stated above. /signed Originally by: Bellum Eternus 4. remove local and have a constallation chat only, so that both sides arn't instantly notified of an ambush or impending attack. Though I undersand the thinking and don't disagree with it for the most part, it does hurt some of the social aspects ofthe game. Originally by: Bellum Eternus 5. fix probes so that they are finally useable to detect mission runners effectively. Right now mission runners are basically 100% safe from being probed out while on a mission. And mission runners won't run missions in low sec. they are not 100% safe now. Get some buddies and scan spam, you will find someone. So it's not a solo thing any more. the same "solution" that has been proposed to solo gate victims for years "get an escort, scount ahead, blah blah" ad nauseum. -AS
Einheriar Ulrich Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.25 02:43:00 - [212] Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 25/01/2007 02:42:10 Originally by: Jackkal The fact is the only way you will get more people to 0.0 is remove the pvp'ers. you cant force someone to pvp thats the only reason everyone comes up with these ideals to push people to 0.0. Use ASCN for a example they were primarly into undustry (carebear). Thet pretty much left everyone alone. Then the bullies of Eve got bored and said hey more pvp targets. Why do people want to go to 0.0 just to see thier hard work destroyed or taken over. Moving agents to low sec moving ore to low sec won't work all it will do is cause more people to leave. Not everyone wants to join a allience and have to deal with all the politics. no if ccp had a low sec nuetral zone where pvp was not allowed i bet it would look like jita. So all the crying pvp'er need to get over it. Basically...i want everything in EVE...without risk. Here is a thought...let it be so that you can sell off your killrights...and create a good bounty system...I am sure alot of players would take up that profession. I once had a sig...it deleted
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.25 02:46:00 - [213] Originally by: Bellum Eternus The whole problem is local. Increase the size of the systems, but remove local. Using local as an intel tool to flee from danger is a broken game mechanic, and has even been stated as such by the Development Team. Anything you do to make it easier for "pirates" will make low sec even more unpopulated. -AS
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.25 05:01:00 - [214] Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich Here is a thought...let it be so that you can sell off your killrights...and create a good bounty system...I am sure alot of players would take up that profession. Interesting thought. It wouldn't keep you from getting ganked, but it would make retaliation easier for those that are not able/equiped for PvP. And give a much needed boost to the Bounty Hunter profession. I like, even without any other changes it would be a cool addition.... <-----------> MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests.... LowSec != NoSec
Strel Samodelkin Caldari Nationalist Party	Posted - 2007.01.25 05:06:00 - [215] How about... Caldari?!
IlIllIlIllIlIlIlIllIlIll	Posted - 2007.05.18 00:08:00 - [216] It's kind of silly to be suggesting ways to lure players back to 0.4 and below when the goal is to kill them. You can add as much bait as you want. You saturated your market of players, and they left to empire. As for taking away empire, it wouldn't be long before you saturated that as well, and a majority of EvE's industrial base left the game for greener pastures.
Liisa Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.18 00:33:00 - [217] Please, let dead threads stay dead. ----------------------------------
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.18 02:19:00 - [218] Originally by: Solahn Merav As a genuine carebear, these are my concerns with going into low sec. 1. Sitting duck at gates. 2. Sitting duck at asteroid belts. 3. Paying for security doesn't work as I'm the first target and I pop like a balloon. In addition, ore/ratting in low sec isn't much better than in empire. Some ideas to address these concerns. 1. Remove local from low sec. There is no reason that a pirate should know I jumped into a system, just as much as I shouldn't know he is there either. 2. Introduce the concept of gate synchronization problems in low sec which warps you to a random spot in system, not to a gate like it is now. To leave the system you must still travel to a gate a jump like normal. This takes away the sitting duck issue at gates which is number one on my list and many others. 3. Random asteroid belts in low sec. Mining class ships have built in scanners so they can find them no problem. Non-mining class ships have to fit restrictive modules to accomplish the same ability. This helps with the sitting duck at belts issue. If you want to find me, you have to use probes or gimp yourself. 4. Add a module that allows a protective ship to actually surround you with their shields. For instance, a raven could envelope my barge with it's shields. To kill me, you have to kill him first. While under this protection, my ship can't warp. 5. Introduce random npc fleet spawns that could be probed by ratters. These fleets would replace the usual belt spawns and would be composed of ships found in level 3-4 missions. If you found such a fleet, you could have it to yourself, you could have another player jump in and attack it as well, or another player could jump in and attack you then kill off the spawn. The biggest obstacle is overcoming the belief I will be ganked the minute I step foot into low sec. Make me feel like I have a chance and I would begin to weigh the risk/reward, but until then, I stay in empire. This is almost word for word, what my friends and I have been saying to each other since we started playing Eve 2 months ago. Pity that no one hears this.
Fryke Caldari CRESCENT Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.10 13:15:00 - [219] Originally by: Twilight Moon Easy solution: 1) Remove High sec 2) Ignore the flamefest that ensues 3) Happy ganktastic fun time! Probably would work.... But a lot of carebears would quit.


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