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+++ Eagle needs a fifth turret please! ½½½

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PeeKaaBoo	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:34:00 - [1] In todays New Eden, the majestical Eagle is going the way of the Dodo. Please CCP, help this bird off the endangered species list and give it a fifth turret! The Eagle got severely nerfed in Revelations with the HP boosts and T2 ammo range nerfs. Even frigates can now tank its damage and basically the Eagle is relegated to killing pods, T1 tacklers and shuttles. A small role for a 110m ISK ship if you ask me. So please CCP give the Eagle some loving. And for my minmatard bird hating friends reading this, also exchange a highslot for a medslot on the Muninn. That is all.
Mr Hyde113 Amarr Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:38:00 - [2] Hijack Hijack Also the sacrilege gets **** dps even though it is close range. It gets same dps as eagle but at less than 10km. All the tier 2 HACs ie... muninn, sac, eagle, and even deimos(not so much) suck compared to the others. WANTED: Thread Hijacker DESCRIPTION: White Man With Black Hood ALIAS: TATER SALAD
Callistus Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:40:00 - [3] Deimos needs more agility and grid! /hijack -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Araxmas Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:41:00 - [4] Before i sold the eagle i would of prefered another med IMO. But hey another turret wouldn't be bad. --------
PeeKaaBoo	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:43:00 - [5] Originally by: Araxmas Before i sold the eagle i would of prefered another med IMO. But hey another turret wouldn't be bad. Actually another med wouldn't be bad instead, but I'll leave that up in the air. With recent HAC attention in the last patch its strange how Eagle got overlooked.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.01.20 18:40:00 - [6] The Rokh has an extra turret slot it can donate.
PeeKaaBoo	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:08:00 - [7] Originally by: Azerrad InExile The Rokh has an extra turret slot it can donate. I didn't want to go there but speaking as a Caldari gunner I agree, Rokh could easily give up a turret if the Eagle gained one. Although I'm biased towards Eagles of course. But thats not going to happen.
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Callistus Deimos needs more agility and grid! /hijack ^_________^ Anyway, with the Eagle, no fifth turret, kthx. Blaster eagles would just start getting too common. Learn what it means to be Caldari with Omerta Syndicate
PeeKaaBoo	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Anyway, with the Eagle, no fifth turret, kthx. Blaster eagles would just start getting too common. I don't see how thats a bad thing because as it stands Eagles of any kind are rare in PVP. So making them more common isn't a bad thing if you ask me. But if you're comparing it to a Deimos, the Eagle is even slower, doesn't have an injector, only 1 slot to tackle with, no dronebay, no falloff bonus, no second damage bonus.. I could go on. But really if despite the above, CCP feel a fifth turret is too much to ask for they should at least give another lowslot to more easily allow for 3 damage mods. Anything to increase its damage output.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Originally by: Callistus Deimos needs more agility and grid! /hijack ^_________^ Anyway, with the Eagle, no fifth turret, kthx. Blaster eagles would just start getting too common. If the Rokh can have the same number of turrets as the Hyperion, why can't the Eagle have the same number of turrets as the Deimos? (both the battleships and HACs would differ by a 5% damage bonus) Though, all HACs only get 1 damage bonus above their tech 1 level, with the exception of the Vagabond. Deimos: 5% damage bonus Ishtar: medium -> heavy drones Muninn: Turret hardpoint Vagabond: Turret hardpoint and 5% damage Zealot: 5% damage Sacriledge: 5% damage Cerberus: 5% rof Eagle: 5% damage I would argue that the Moa also needs a turret hardpoint (and the Ferox needs 2 and 400 grid, same for the Vulture. the rokh should not be the only good sniper in the caldari lineup of mediocre rail ships). --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson

Trillian Mcmillan Cry Me A River Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:42:00 - [11] Yes, please. Also.. Fix our ecm ships. Not all caldari are missile users. :)
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.01.20 20:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Callistus Deimos needs more agility and grid! /hijack deimos needs especially less mass....vaga runs around like a roadrunner while the deimos (more dependant on range) crawls like a goddamn snail ffs ! and yeh.../hijack Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Fergus Runkle	Posted - 2007.01.20 20:18:00 - [13] The Caldari rail ships have so very nearly a good progression, a couple of them just need tweaking in my opinion. Currently Merlin - 4 hi's with a 2 gun 2 launcher spilt Harpy - 5 hi's with a 4 gun 1 launcher split Moa - 6 hi's with a 4 gun 2 launcher split Eagle - 6 hi's with a 4 gun 2 launcher split Ferox - 7 hi's with a 5 gun 5 launcher split Vulture - 7 hi's with a 5 gun 5 launcher split Rokh - 8 hi's with a 8 gun 4 launcher split I think that they should probably go Merlin - 4 hi's - 3G 2L Harpy - as is - 4G 1L Moa - as si - 4G 2L Eagle - 6 hi's - 5G 1L Ferox - 7 hi's - 5G 3L Vulture - 7 hi's - 6G 3L Rokh - as is - 8G 4L (probably should only have 7 guns I guess) Oh and I kind of thing the Raptor deserves another turret as well but I don't fly that ship so can't really comment.
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2007.01.20 21:20:00 - [14] 7 turrets for hurricane 5 turrets for rupture 6 turrets for Muninn (description says its supposed to be a total gunship... also has only 5 lows compared to deimos 6! even crappier than Eagle) Caldari should never have more turrets than Minmatar! etc etc... Seriously though... the ferox could do with another turret, but the Eagle? Hmm... Deimos getting more speed/lower mass, though? Deimos already kicks major ass. Its lower speed is the balance to doing battleship-level damage. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
zwerg Caldari mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.01.20 23:37:00 - [15] Edited by: zwerg on 20/01/2007 23:33:26 Originally by: Tasty Burger Quote: 7 turrets for hurricane *5 turrets for rupture* *6 turrets for Muninn* (description says its supposed to be a total gunship... also has only 5 lows compared to deimos 6! even crappier than Eagle) Caldari should never have more turrets than Minmatar! etc etc... Seriously though... the ferox could do with another turret, but the Eagle? Hmm... Deimos getting more speed/lower mass, though? Deimos already kicks major ass. Its lower speed is the balance to doing battleship-level damage. wrong wrong wrong WRONGGGGG. ruppy got 4gunslots. muninn got 5 Edit: Hurry got 6 Save the whales!!! Harpoon some Amarrians!!!! It's great being minmatard isnt it?!
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.01.20 23:55:00 - [16] For the lovbe of God yes, 5th turrtet please! and 1-2 more turrets for the Ferox and Vulture FFS! The EOS and Astarte get 7 trurret points, why don't we? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Zyrla Bladestorm Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.20 23:55:00 - [17] Originally by: zwerg Edited by: zwerg on 20/01/2007 23:33:26 Originally by: Tasty Burger Quote: 7 turrets for hurricane *5 turrets for rupture* *6 turrets for Muninn* (description says its supposed to be a total gunship... also has only 5 lows compared to deimos 6! even crappier than Eagle) Caldari should never have more turrets than Minmatar! etc etc... Seriously though... the ferox could do with another turret, but the Eagle? Hmm... Deimos getting more speed/lower mass, though? Deimos already kicks major ass. Its lower speed is the balance to doing battleship-level damage. wrong wrong wrong WRONGGGGG. ruppy got 4gunslots. muninn got 5 Edit: Hurry got 6 He was saying they should have that many, in his opinion . ----- It's great being Minmatar, ain't it? Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.01.21 00:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Fergus Runkle I think that they should probably go Merlin - 4 hi's - 3G 2L Harpy - as is - 4G 1L Moa - as si - 4G 2L Eagle - 6 hi's - 5G 1L Ferox - 7 hi's - 5G 3L Vulture - 7 hi's - 6G 3L Rokh - as is - 8G 4L (probably should only have 7 guns I guess) Oh and I kind of thing the Raptor deserves another turret as well but I don't fly that ship so can't really comment. The Ferox should be ATLEAST 6 turrets. The current 5/5 split is just absurd really. The Vulture should be 7 turrets. There's no reason it shouldn't kick vast amounts of ass like every other fleet command. Right now the Vulture is better off with 0 weapons and 6 gang mods and as much tank as possible. While that's a good thing when you consider it's a gang platform, it's stupid when you realize the other 3 ships are insanely good. The Vulture is the runt of the litter, badly. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.21 00:12:00 - [19] Arguably where CCP went wrong in the Caldari turret line up was giving the Rokh 8 turret hardpoints. I agree with people in this thrad that Caldari should never be the turret heavy race, they should be about equal to Minmatar (but with less damage/rof bonuses) and below the gunships of Amarr and Gallente. As for the Eagle well, I ain't sure if a fifth turret is the way to go but it does lack <something>. It could use a dronebay or a medslot for extra tackle to defend it from frigates or another lowslot to fit more damage mods. But a fifth turret is the most obvious solution. Muninn has so many utility slots it doesn't know what to do with them, and too few medslots for sniping. I'd say move a utility high slot down to a medslot and give it 30 CPU extra. Deimos needs the mass and base speed of a Thorax. Sacriledge is probably getting attention if/when Tuxford ever decides what to do with Khanid or Amarr as a whole.
Jovius Marginus Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.21 00:58:00 - [20] TBH its to the point where you cant even 1-shot pods anymore. Pls for the love of god give it atleast 1 extra turret slot. Then atleast it can pop a few frigs before the fleet battle ends.

Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.21 02:36:00 - [21] Edited by: Goumindong on 21/01/2007 02:37:11 The eagle does not need 5 turrets. It is not a great blasterboat, but it is not a terrible blasterboat. There is no reason it should eclipse the Zealot. An Eagle with 5 turrets would do 9.375% more damage than a Zealot. It would have significantly less range[with long range short range ammo, though not significantly less with short range short range ammo], but still do more damage, with better tracking and less capacitor use. That is fundamentally wrong. The Eagle is not a bad ship, it has its role, which is to kill frigates from far away. It performs that role well. With tech 2 ammo the only thing it cant hit at its optimal is an afterburning interceptor or one with snakes in. With tech 1 ammo it pretty much cannot miss. The Ferox has a similar predicament with the comparable amarran boat. It will do more damage with less cap use[though the Proph pilot can also use blasters as well due to just how bad that bonus is]. --------------- There is only one really ****ty teir 2 HAC, and that is the Sacriledge, it only does 5% more damage than a Maller for goodness sakes... The others are either good[Eagle], suffer from an overpowered teir 1 HAC[Vagabond/Ishtar], or suffer from overlaping roles in larger ships[deimos] The Eagle serves its role. The Deimos does not, not because it isnt good[its freaking great... for a cruiser], but because it is outclassed by the Brutix, which does everything the Deimos does, but better and cheaper. The Zealot almost has this issue with the Harbinger[but the lack of a range bonus on the Harbinger largly mitigates this, as does the speed of the Harbinger] and the Armageddon[Which doesnt have "fast attack" capability or the tracking to define it as overlapping]. The deimos also has the problem of the Ishtar being superfantastic. The Muninn is a fine ship, it does 25% more damage than the Rupture with its guns, and can fit missiles and drones on the bottom to increase its DPS even farther. It also has the ability to put on arties and be a mid-range frig popper. It even gets its 25% gun damage bonus without training any more levels of HAS than is nessesary. So what is the problem with the Muninn? The Vagabond. Simply put, the vagabond does too much damage. All HAC's except the Ishtar, Sacriledge, and Vagabond do exactly or close enough to 1 damage bonus[typically 25%, though the cerb gets an RoF bonus, so 33%] more than their predacessor in primary weapon damage. The Ishtar gets bigger drones[2x drone damage, though this comes with a drawback], the Sacriledge gets 0% more damage[less than a bonus, due to loosing turrets, down from 5 turrets to 4, and adding a dmg bonus, without HAC 5, it actualy does LESS damage than a maller with its guns], and the Vagabond gets not only an extra turret, but another damage bonus on top of that [total of 56% or so]. If the Vagabond only had 4 turrets, then it would be balanced and the Muninn would start looking a lot better. ----------- Whomever said the Vulture is WORSE than the Damnation needs to check their head, 4 turrets and a SINGLE optimal range bonus. That is less damage than the Vulture at about 60% the range[if you work really hard at it] The Vulture can run the exact same role as the Eagle while running its gang bonuses, this is a nice benefit. Its a gang ship, use it as such. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.21 02:39:00 - [22] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Originally by: Callistus Deimos needs more agility and grid! /hijack ^_________^ Anyway, with the Eagle, no fifth turret, kthx. Blaster eagles would just start getting too common. If the Rokh can have the same number of turrets as the Hyperion, why can't the Eagle have the same number of turrets as the Deimos? (both the battleships and HACs would differ by a 5% damage bonus) Though, all HACs only get 1 damage bonus above their tech 1 level, with the exception of the Vagabond. Deimos: 5% damage bonus Ishtar: medium -> heavy drones Muninn: Turret hardpoint Vagabond: Turret hardpoint and 5% damage Zealot: 5% damage Sacriledge: 5% damage Cerberus: 5% rof Eagle: 5% damage I would argue that the Moa also needs a turret hardpoint (and the Ferox needs 2 and 400 grid, same for the Vulture. the rokh should not be the only good sniper in the caldari lineup of mediocre rail ships). They are good snipers, they are just as good cruiser sized snipers as anyone else is, and they do it with more range. Also, the med-heavy drone dmg boost is 2x though there is the speed drawback there. And the Sacriledge does not get a damage bonus over the Maller. The Maller has 5 turrets and the Sacriledge 4, so the Sacriledge does the same amount of DPS as the Maller[with better range] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.21 04:24:00 - [23] "The Eagle got severely nerfed in Revelations with the HP boosts and T2 ammo range nerfs." Everyone got affected by the HP change, and some 20-odd km shaven off 200 km optimal is hardly 'severe nerf', either. Caldari turret ships are in way similar to Minmatar, they get combination of turrets and the missile slots (maybe except Rokh which i suspect was conceived while Tux was drunk and saw too many slots on the blueprint) ... if you want all-out turret gunboats then Amarr are -> way and Gallente are the other -.o
Jackal79	Posted - 2007.01.21 05:36:00 - [24] What kind of role is picking off frigs from long range? Thats gotta be the lamest role ever. Eagle should get something.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.21 06:44:00 - [25] Edited by: Goumindong on 21/01/2007 06:42:27 Originally by: Jackal79 What kind of role is picking off frigs from long range? Thats gotta be the lamest role ever. Eagle should get something. The lamest role ever until that interceptor gives the opposing fleet a warp in or scramble on a battleship. Or you are doing hit and runs against an opposing force, making their tacklers split from the main group. Or are working as anti-tackler suport. Eagle loads up standard ammo, warps to tackled friendly @ 100, destroys frigates or forces them to warp, then leaves. Saves a battleship. killing and scattering frigates offers tactical advantages on the battlefield. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.21 06:50:00 - [26] Originally by: Jackal79 What kind of role is picking off frigs from long range? Thats gotta be the lamest role ever. Eagle should get something. If you think that's the lamest role ever, you're either an idiot or have never been in a fleet fight. Good bye. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
CaperPuts Minmatar Life. Universe. Everything. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2007.01.21 08:07:00 - [27] The Tempest Fleet Issue needs something to make it less sucky! An extra medium slot and a little more HP doesn't justify its huge price tag... especially when a Machariel is less ISK, and IMHO, much better because of the Gallente BS bonuses, and the low slot. I want a seventh turret! >:) </hijack> lolz
LordInvisible Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.21 09:11:00 - [28] yeah, and i want an 8th high slot on my astarte too!!!!! ohh ffs guys..there is so many ships that needs checking before u can have your dream ships made even more stronger. Not to mention alot of modules needs be looked again and give them some other roles. And dont make CCP busy, they need to get something up to counter blobs, to give us normal fleet fights, not lag fest. And i think this lack of slots on eagle is just one way of inforcing policy on longer fights.. Why should u one volley a frig? There is no fun. Deserve to kill it, thats more fun.. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.21 09:56:00 - [29] Eagle is fine. More fitting name would be death from above, but hey... -------- Sigs 4tl.
Shi Mun Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.01.21 10:23:00 - [30] I say give the eagle is 5th turret and if need be (balance the other hacs). Giving it a 5th doesnt really make it overpowered as far as i could see. Just as an example tho - the thorax has 4 guns hardpoints and the deimos has 5. So why cant the eagle have 5? its not like it has the double damage bonus and atm with 4, its kinda useless... --------------------------- HAHA! your jammers suck now! Oh wait whats happening to my scorpion...

Kerdrak Amarr 3B Legio IX	Posted - 2007.01.21 10:27:00 - [31] Yeah! Boost Caldari! ________________________________________ First atheist amarr on EVE
Waxau Liberty Rogues Phoenix Supremacy	Posted - 2007.01.21 11:31:00 - [32] Oh dear god. I wasnt sure if i should post in this thread but i think someone needs to beat some of you with an informed ugly stick. Eagle has rather poor dps. Its not enough (with rails) to pop anything bigger than a cruiser, before they can warp off. And those cruisers are only things such as osprey, exequror, and so on. However since the hp boost several changes has made the eagle a bit harder to fly - not so much the range reduction on Spike, but more so, the hp boost itself. Eagles are no longer able to pop frigates as easily. And whilst as a valid point was made, that making a frigate warp does the job...in many ways it doesn't. Pvp is about combat - And that usually implies killing. I personally think a 5th turret wouldn't overpower the eagle, as ive flown them for 1.5 years, and am very familiarized with its dps, compared to other hacs. The argument some may use here is that the eagle is specialized etc. And yes - it is. But thats no reason to limit its dps, due to own preference. By adding a 5th turret, the dps will not rival other hacs. But more make the eagle more balanced in its role. I can grab a moa, and do just the same as an eagle. The resistances dont matter, if im sniping. im long range, so i dont tank. So moa would be just as good. and if someone can hit me at 150km, then most likely they'll be able to hit me at 200km. The skills needed, and the cash, to outfit an eagle effectively is currently 'slightly' unbalanced, as many other ships can do that role JUST as well. This reminds me very much of the nighthawk situation. A ship which requires many skills, iskies, and time - and can have its job done by a less-skill-intensive ship. But then again - Im sure this 'request' will just turn into flame wars, and all the 'gah - caldari is overpowered monkey crap' stuff as usual. ps. - thorax has 5 turret slots too.
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.21 13:02:00 - [33] Originally by: Goumindong The eagle does not need 5 turrets. It is not a great blasterboat, but it is not a terrible blasterboat. There is no reason it should eclipse the Zealot. An Eagle with 5 turrets would do 9.375% more damage than a Zealot. The Eagle is a sniper ship first and foremost and it is there that its damage is lacking. For a ship with a 110m ISK pricetag what we get is a very expensive pod and shuttle cleaner. As for the Deimos retarded kid brother, the Beagle. If i'm honest I have never even seen one ingame so I doubt they're as much as a problem as some in this thread are saying. Even if it had 5 turrets there is no way a Beagle is going to kill a Zealot. For starters it is slow as hell, has 1 medslot to tackle with and no cap injector unless you start severely weakening the tank. All the Zealot would have to do in order to win is to stay at 18-19km and he's well into the Beagles fall off while he does full damage with heavy pulse.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.21 13:18:00 - [34] Originally by: PeeKaaBoo a 110m ISK ship Nuff said. Eagle don't need no turret, altho it could use a smallish boost elsewhere. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.21 13:18:00 - [35] Sorry, did someone actually suggest removing some turrets from the Rokh? Are we playing the same game? As for the Eagle yes it needs an extra turret slot. It does perform a valuable role in a fleet situation but it struggles now. Any recon (apart from Caldari of course) or Gallente turret ship is considerably more effective at killing frigates, even at some range. Everyone ignores the Eagle at 200km until the end of the fight anyway. Personally I'd be quite happy if it had a maximum range of 150km and more damage. Of course the most obvious evidence that suggests its poor is right in front of you everytime you undock, barely anyone flies it. Understand that me posting this doesn't mean I think the Sacrilege, diemos and whatever else should be ignored, so think before you type yeah?
Waxau Liberty Rogues Phoenix Supremacy	Posted - 2007.01.21 13:19:00 - [36] Actually beagles are pretty good - And having a 5th turret wouldnt make them overpowered before anyone mentions it. Atm an average setup is 4 blasters, 2 nos. If a person has 5 turrets on a beagle, they only can have 1 nos. Its simple maths:P
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.21 13:24:00 - [37] Edited by: welsh wizard on 21/01/2007 13:20:30 Aye the nos and tank make the Beagle not the damage. It doesn't outdamage close range ships of a similar size/price.
Charlie Seriya	Posted - 2007.01.21 13:52:00 - [38] 25m3 Drone Bay please!
Arzal Caldari Union Aerospace Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.21 14:15:00 - [39] theres no need for the drone bay, if the ship is used for its correct use which is at 200ks you don't need drones, its use is a fleep ship, and it was a good one, but now with the health bonuses (as mentioned) it needs abit more bang for you buck. i recon another high slit wouldn't overbalace it, just my fear is that people will decide... "hang on... i could fit blasters to this..." then it could become.. well a pain. if you catch my drift.
Waxau Liberty Rogues Phoenix Supremacy	Posted - 2007.01.21 15:02:00 - [40] Actually - it will unbalance it. As i said, i suggest an extra turret - NOT an extra highslot too.

Kerdrak Amarr 3B Legio IX	Posted - 2007.01.21 15:16:00 - [41] Originally by: Waxau Actually - it will unbalance it. As i said, i suggest an extra turret - NOT an extra highslot too. I want the same thing for Retribution. ________________________________________ First atheist amarr on EVE
Waxau Liberty Rogues Phoenix Supremacy	Posted - 2007.01.21 15:33:00 - [42] yes - However theres a big difference - This is a thread regarding the eagle, not the retribution......
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.21 15:39:00 - [43] "However since the hp boost several changes has made the eagle a bit harder to fly - not so much the range reduction on Spike, but more so, the hp boost itself. Eagles are no longer able to pop frigates as easily." Yes, because the point of hp boost was to make ships harder to pop. Including frigates. So in this sense it achieves the desired effect... for everyone, and demanding the extra turret on the ship to counter that is essentially asking "omg let everyone else struggle with the hp boost but this one ship should be given special treatment"
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:29:00 - [44] Originally by: j0sephine "However since the hp boost several changes has made the eagle a bit harder to fly - not so much the range reduction on Spike, but more so, the hp boost itself. Eagles are no longer able to pop frigates as easily." Yes, because the point of hp boost was to make ships harder to pop. Including frigates. So in this sense it achieves the desired effect... for everyone, and demanding the extra turret on the ship to counter that is essentially asking "omg let everyone else struggle with the hp boost but this one ship should be given special treatment" Good, we are on the same page. It is a specialized hac, that fails miserable at it's role. fix it please.
LordInvisible Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:31:00 - [45] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: j0sephine "However since the hp boost several changes has made the eagle a bit harder to fly - not so much the range reduction on Spike, but more so, the hp boost itself. Eagles are no longer able to pop frigates as easily." Yes, because the point of hp boost was to make ships harder to pop. Including frigates. So in this sense it achieves the desired effect... for everyone, and demanding the extra turret on the ship to counter that is essentially asking "omg let everyone else struggle with the hp boost but this one ship should be given special treatment" Good, we are on the same page. It is a specialized hac, that fails miserable at it's role. fix it please. this HAC is specialized in sniping, not in one volley frig poping.. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:58:00 - [46] Originally by: Waxau By adding a 5th turret, the dps will not rival other hacs. But more make the eagle more balanced in its role. By adding a 5th turret, it will do more damage than a Zealot with its guns. What part of this dont you understand? ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:00:00 - [47] Originally by: Shi Mun I say give the eagle is 5th turret and if need be (balance the other hacs). Giving it a 5th doesnt really make it overpowered as far as i could see. Just as an example tho - the thorax has 4 guns hardpoints and the deimos has 5. So why cant the eagle have 5? its not like it has the double damage bonus and atm with 4, its kinda useless... There are two ships that get an extra turret/launcher over their tech 1 variant. The Muninn and the Vagabond. The Muninn doesnt get a damage bonus for the HAC skill, and the Vagabond is overpowered... ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:02:00 - [48] The Vagabond's damage is overpowered? News to me. If anything, the muninn is underpowered. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:10:00 - [49] Originally by: Tasty Burger The Vagabond's damage is overpowered? News to me. If anything, the muninn is underpowered. The Vagabond is the only HAC to get more than a single damage bonus with its primary weapon system over its tech 1 variant. Ships that dont get 25% are... Ishtar (200% bonus + Drone Speed Drawbacks, 66% with sentry drones] Cerberus (33% bonus: RoF instead of damage, still a single damage bonus) Sacriledge (0% bonus: Damage bonus offsets loss of turret) Vagabond (56.25% bonus: Damage bonus over Stabber and an extra turret) The muninn does fine damage ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:23:00 - [50] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Waxau By adding a 5th turret, the dps will not rival other hacs. But more make the eagle more balanced in its role. By adding a 5th turret, it will do more damage than a Zealot with its guns. What part of this dont you understand? Could you show the math for that? I don't seem to be getting values anywhere near what you are getting. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson

Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:25:00 - [51] Originally by: Goumindong Ishtar (200% bonus + Drone Speed Drawbacks, 66% with sentry drones] A turret is lost from the Vexor -> Ishtar transition, you didn't add that in there. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:30:00 - [52] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Tasty Burger The Vagabond's damage is overpowered? News to me. If anything, the muninn is underpowered. The Vagabond is the only HAC to get more than a single damage bonus with its primary weapon system over its tech 1 variant. Ships that dont get 25% are... Ishtar (200% bonus + Drone Speed Drawbacks, 66% with sentry drones] Cerberus (33% bonus: RoF instead of damage, still a single damage bonus) Sacriledge (0% bonus: Damage bonus offsets loss of turret) Vagabond (56.25% bonus: Damage bonus over Stabber and an extra turret) The muninn does fine damage This is true. However... I'm sure you are aware that the stabber has absolutely horrible DPS. It wouldn't be a heavy assault class without the extra turret. Why do the ships need to get the same bonuses over their t1 counterparts anyway? - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:41:00 - [53] Originally by: j0sephine "However since the hp boost several changes has made the eagle a bit harder to fly - not so much the range reduction on Spike, but more so, the hp boost itself. Eagles are no longer able to pop frigates as easily." Yes, because the point of hp boost was to make ships harder to pop. Including frigates. So in this sense it achieves the desired effect... for everyone, and demanding the extra turret on the ship to counter that is essentially asking "omg let everyone else struggle with the hp boost but this one ship should be given special treatment" True, but its debatable as to whether the Eagle ever did enough damage in the first place, regardless of hitpoint changes. I think the problem is frigs got harder but they don't move or warp any slower, result: no-one wants to fly the Eagle.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:12:00 - [54] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Waxau By adding a 5th turret, the dps will not rival other hacs. But more make the eagle more balanced in its role. By adding a 5th turret, it will do more damage than a Zealot with its guns. What part of this dont you understand? Could you show the math for that? I don't seem to be getting values anywhere near what you are getting. RoF is the same, so all skill bonuses normalize, and only ship bonuses/turrets are left. Zealot DPS w/ HP skill normalized = 3.6 x 1.25 x 4 / .75 = 24 Eagle DPS w/ Neut skill normalized = 4.2 x 1.25 x 5 =26.25 26.25/24 = 1.09375 OR Eagle would do 9.375% more dps than the Zealot. Eagle also has two launchers which it can use to increase DPS farther. Originally by: Tasty Burger This is true. However... I'm sure you are aware that the stabber has absolutely horrible DPS. It wouldn't be a heavy assault class without the extra turret. Why do the ships need to get the same bonuses over their t1 counterparts anyway? By that logic the Zealot should be a 5 turret beast and the Sacriledge should have 5 and a double damage bonus. Both these options dont seem balanced to me. The benefit of the Stabber has always been its speed[and disposability], it doesnt need such a DPS increase to achieve its goal. And no, the Stabber does not have terrible DPS. The omen only does 11% more damage than it with its guns(primary weapon system), and the Stabber has two missile hardpoints on top to help out with that[compared to 1 on the omen, which it cant really fit anyway]. The omen has 10 m^3 more drone space. Which means that no, the Stabber does not really do "terrible DPS" it does as much or nearly as much DPS as the comparable amarran boat[which is slower, larger, and just as fragile(due to fitting issues with lasers)] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Goumindong Ishtar (200% bonus + Drone Speed Drawbacks, 66% with sentry drones] A turret is lost from the Vexor -> Ishtar transition, you didn't add that in there. Yes, a turret is lost, and I should have mentioned that, however, even then, the Ishtar does considerable amounts of damage more than the Vexor. The real downside of the Ishtar that offets the large damage bonus[which is probably too large] is the speed of heavy drones and their lack of effectiveness agaisnt smaller targets. Really the damage bonus should be light/med drones only or the drone bay too small to fit heavies + extras. But that is another issue and one I dont really want to get into. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Arzal Caldari Union Aerospace Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:29:00 - [55] Originally by: Waxau Actually - it will unbalance it. As i said, i suggest an extra turret - NOT an extra highslot too. i meant turret slot, not high, i was half asleep at the time...
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:44:00 - [56] i say sure as long as my zealot gets a 5th gun x_X --- If i'm posting on the forums, it's mostly cause i'm at work :D
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:46:00 - [57] Originally by: Goumindong stuff Look, so far all you've done is compare DPS figures and not looked at the ships themselves. What a Zealot has to do with the Eagle is beyond me because they fill very different roles. So the whole Beagle discussion here is pointless. A Blaster Eagle is slow and does not have medslots to tackle with. If you flew one you'd know this already. A Zealot would outrange and outdamage a Beagle in every encounter. If the Eagle had a second medslot for tackling purposes and the agility or speed of a Zealot, I might be inclined to agree. But you can't simply throw up some DPS charts and start making outrageous claims.
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Waxau By adding a 5th turret, the dps will not rival other hacs. But more make the eagle more balanced in its role. By adding a 5th turret, it will do more damage than a Zealot with its guns. What part of this dont you understand? Zealot has double damage bonuses, RoF and damage. Also IIRC conflagration has better damage per crystal than short range blaster ammo. Just give th eeagle its turret and let this thread die
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.21 20:08:00 - [59] id prefer extra mid on the eagle tbh *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.21 20:27:00 - [60] Originally by: korrey Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Waxau By adding a 5th turret, the dps will not rival other hacs. But more make the eagle more balanced in its role. By adding a 5th turret, it will do more damage than a Zealot with its guns. What part of this dont you understand? Zealot has double damage bonuses, RoF and damage. Also IIRC conflagration has better damage per crystal than short range blaster ammo. Just give th eeagle its turret and let this thread die I just showed you, in plain simple math, how a 5 turret eagle would do more damage than the current Zealot. Here is a simple way to figure it out. 4 x 1.25= 5. So a Zealot, with 4 turrets is like a 5 turret ship that gets an ROF bonus. And blasters do more damage than lasers such that 1.33xheavy pulse/1.25x neutron is less than 1. Similarly, conflaglaration not only does the same amount of damage as all other short range tech 2 ammo, but in the case of blaster ammo, it as a significantly worse penalty, such that the zealot would only outrange the beagle by 2-3km with conflag and void. Originally by: Nir Originally by: Goumindong stuff Look, so far all you've done is compare DPS figures and not looked at the ships themselves. What a Zealot has to do with the Eagle is beyond me because they fill very different roles. So the whole Beagle discussion here is pointless. A Blaster Eagle is slow and does not have medslots to tackle with. If you flew one you'd know this already. A Zealot would outrange and outdamage a Beagle in every encounter. If the Eagle had a second medslot for tackling purposes and the agility or speed of a Zealot, I might be inclined to agree. But you can't simply throw up some DPS charts and start making outrageous claims. It would ourrange, yes, but not out-damage. The Eagle should not be an inside heavy hitter and the best long range sniper[which you want to do make even farther] at the same time. The Zealot despite its optimal bonus is effective mainly as a medium range pulse ship with scorch. The comparisons are such to compare, and to remove the ridiculous idea that a 5 turret eagle would not out-damage any other HAC. The Eagle is a sniper, it performs its role very very well. It does not need to also be awesome as a blastership, if you want to do that, train into a deimos. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

F Apparition Minmatar MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.21 20:35:00 - [61] Originally by: Goumindong It does not need to also be awesome as a blastership, if you want to do that, train into a deimos. Because the Deimos is such a great blastership.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.21 21:01:00 - [62] Originally by: F Apparition Originally by: Goumindong It does not need to also be awesome as a blastership, if you want to do that, train into a deimos. Because the Deimos is such a great blastership. Well, the Brutix is better, but for a cruiser, its the best you can get. The deimos's problems stem from range really, since it cant outrange a brutix you might as well fly the higher damage, better repping biigger ship. Its not a ship problem its a problem that the role is taken up by the brutix already. This issue can be mitigated by fitting rails, though not perfectly. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

Oiri Yusko Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.21 21:12:00 - [63] Temporary lock. Removing hijack/off topic posts. forum rules\|[email protected]

Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.21 21:35:00 - [64] Last post on the subject, to be honest all high tier HACs need looking at and not just the Eagle. Originally by: Goumindong It would ourrange, yes, but not out-damage. Beagle DPS at 18km DPS = lower than a Zealots at the same range I assure you. I don't hear AC Pest pilots complaining that Blasterthrons deal more DPS inside 6km. Besides even if the fight DID start at say, 5km the Zealot can dictate range unless the Eagle is armor tanking or something crazy like that - in which case he's going down regardless. Originally by: Goumindong The Eagle is a sniper, it performs its role very very well. It does not need to also be awesome as a blastership, if you want to do that, train into a deimos. Even if an Eagle had SIX turrets, it would still be an inferior blaster ship to the Deimos. Without a webifier or webifier drones and with it being a slow ship it can't simply can't pin targets down. This isn't about Blasters, its about the damage output of an Eagle at long range. It sucks, it was always mediocre but the changes in Revelations really make it stand out clear as day.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.21 21:58:00 - [65] Originally by: Goumindong Zealot DPS w/ HP skill normalized = 3.6 x 1.25 x 4 / .75 = 24 Eagle DPS w/ Neut skill normalized = 4.2 x 1.25 x 5 =26.25 26.25/24 = 1.09375 OR Eagle would do 9.375% more dps than the Zealot. Eagle: am/250II: 3.3241.255/6.38 = 77.58 am/200II: 2.4241.255/4.88 = 73.77 am/HNB: 4.2241.255/5.25 = 120 am/HIB: 3.375241.255/4.5 = 112.5 am/HEB: 2.1241.255/3 = 105 Zealot: mf/HBL: 3.6241.254/(6.75) = 96 mf/FMBL: 2.4241.254/(4.8.75) = 80 mf/QLBM: 1.8241.254/(3.15.75) = 91.42 (huh?) mf/HPL: 3.6241.254/(5.25.75) = 109.75 mf/FMPL: 2.4241.254/(4.05.75) = 94.81 It should be noted that without a major grid bonus, it will be very difficult to have a usable heavy neutron blaster setup on the Eagle, making any short range DPS advantage questionable at best. Using long range weapons, which is what the Eagle is intended to fit, the Eagle deals less damage, but it of course has the range bonus. With practical considerations considered, I'd say that the zealot is probably still the better short range ship, if only due to mobility and 2 more tanking slots (that are not completing with other stuff). --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson*
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.21 23:24:00 - [66] Quad light beams are more similar to pulse lasers really, except they really really suck instead of just completly sucking. It would be like having another blaster option that was worse than electron blasters. They have 1km falloff and 9.6km range for the tech 2 version, which makes them into a viable option for the Omen and Maller[if they want to do even less than an FMP version with no falloff and less range] but not exactly a quality product. Before the gleam(and other tech 2 ammo) nerf they were viable alternatives to FMPs for really short range tank setups. Not really so much anymore. That should fix the QLB confusion. As for the rest, yes, higher damage in the short range, lower damage and MUCH higher range in the long. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.21 23:26:00 - [67] Originally by: Nir Last post on the subject, to be honest all high tier HACs need looking at and not just the Eagle. Originally by: Goumindong It would ourrange, yes, but not out-damage. Beagle DPS at 18km DPS = lower than a Zealots at the same range I assure you. I don't hear AC Pest pilots complaining that Blasterthrons deal more DPS inside 6km. Besides even if the fight DID start at say, 5km the Zealot can dictate range unless the Eagle is armor tanking or something crazy like that - in which case he's going down regardless. Originally by: Goumindong The Eagle is a sniper, it performs its role very very well. It does not need to also be awesome as a blastership, if you want to do that, train into a deimos. Even if an Eagle had SIX turrets, it would still be an inferior blaster ship to the Deimos. Without a webifier or webifier drones and with it being a slow ship it can't simply can't pin targets down. This isn't about Blasters, its about the damage output of an Eagle at long range. It sucks, it was always mediocre but the changes in Revelations really make it stand out clear as day. The damage output of the Eagle at long range is fine... 160 DPS @ 180-200km and not a single frigate aside from an afterbruning interceptor that can outrun you. 240 damage with antimatter @ 57km ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.21 23:46:00 - [68] The whole freaking line of caldari ships needs another turrent a touch of powergrid. The moa to harpy to eagle to ferox.. they are all 1 turrent short. They already give up a DPS bonus for a range bonus, also taking away a turrent is the nail in the coffin. of ALL the +50% to optimal range ships, the ONLY one worth it's weight is the rokh.. and that is because it has 8 turret slots. If it had 7 it would again be useless, and you would be better training up gallente BS for their better turrent BS's. The rokh was made balanced, in that it does REASONABLE dps, while having a tiny range bonus over other BS. All the other ships really need adjusted..
Waxau Liberty Rogues Phoenix Supremacy	Posted - 2007.01.21 23:55:00 - [69] Well Gormindong - Im going to take a WILD guess and say you dont fly an eagle, but fly a zealot. Let me lay it out simply : The eagle, EVEN BEFORE Revelations lacked the damage to be a considerable threat to anything other than frigates. Even then, a skilled frigate pilot would be able to speed tank an eagle indeffinately - no matter what range. Now - for some reason, you're applying everything to blasters. So we'll play on your playing field. But lets just at a twist. Lets talk about the deimos and eagle. Now - The eagle. At the moment, it has 4 turrets, 6 high slots - So naturally, 2 nos. The Deimos? 5 turrets, 1 nos. Simple no? Now lets take into account the bonuses. The eagle has a range bonus - Oh wow, it can shoot outside web range. Amazingly useful eh? Oh and lets not forget that its a shield tanker - So byebye capacitor, and longevity in tanking. The deimos however...armor tanking - so more sustainable and less micro-management. The huge damage bonuses which allow 9.8 damage mods achieveable, compared to the eagles 4.7. OH and who can forget that wonderful drone bay. If the eagle achieved its extra turret, the deimos would be far superior, in gangs or 1v1. The deimos would have far superior damage, and if the eagle kept the same number of high slots, would have the same highslot layout as the deimos. And just to make things that much simpler - we'll just throw in the tanks shall we? Eagle - 5 medium slots. Deimos - 6 low slots. Now im sure that alone will allow anyone with common sense, see who can fit the strongest tank. Now although the eagle does have resistance bonuses, with an extra 'tanking slot' than the eagle, the deimos can achieve those 'ship bonuses' it fails to have. And whats that you say? The eagle needs its med slots for tackling? By Jove youre right! So lets use a general setup shall we? a scrambler, a web, a shield booster, an EM hardener and GAH! One slot left....now we have a choice here..we can either fill out the precious low slots which we need for the damage with either damage mods OR pdu/rcu so we can actually fit that precious mwd. Oh wait - Guess we'll have to settle with an AB, with a top speed of 400ms. Now tell me - Even with that extra turret, do you STILL think the eagle with blasters would win? My point is proven.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 00:27:00 - [70] Our fleets suck coz we actually do have some eagles in them. Eagle is fine. The whole HP increase was completely unnecessary, together with damage nerf on ammo and resulted in omfgannoying nanofgtry that used to die before it covered distance to anything. But if HP increase wasted eagle's sniping ability, how did it result on gunboats that use more cap(zealot) etc. That said, I don't fly eagle, but sometimes I wish i could(apart from other hacs, that i really don't care about). -------- What is local devoid of smack?

j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 00:33:00 - [71] "If it had 7 it would again be useless, and you would be better training up gallente BS for their better turrent BS's." That's the idea, yes. * Gallente -- all-out turret ships, drones at close range * Caldari -- mix of turrets and missiles. strong tank to balance out the lower dps if all you want is ****load of damage raining from huge shiny guns then yes, train and fly Gallente ships. That's what they specialize in. I seriously don't see the need to have two races with identical fighting profile. Even if one of the devs goes by name of Redundancy o.O;
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.22 01:59:00 - [72] Edited by: Audri Fisher on 22/01/2007 01:57:42 Originally by: LUKEC Our fleets suck coz we actually do have some eagles in them. Eagle is fine. The whole HP increase was completely unnecessary, together with damage nerf on ammo and resulted in omfgannoying nanofgtry that used to die before it covered distance to anything. But if HP increase wasted eagle's sniping ability, how did it result on gunboats that use more cap(zealot) etc. That said, I don't fly eagle, but sometimes I wish i could(apart from other hacs, that i really don't care about). unbonused cap use of med nuetron II = 1.65 cap/sec unbonused cap use of 250mm rail II = 1.56 cap/sec with controlled burst at 5, the difference in cap use is a whopping .06 cap/sec. this whole thing on blaster users complaining about cap use over rails is beyond me. That difference is more than made up for with 0 cap use ean II's.
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 04:13:00 - [73] "this whole thing on blaster users complaining about cap use over rails is beyond me." Lukec said Zealot there... ^^;; lasers with 25% extra rof do eat quite a bit more cap than the rails on the Eagle, even with cap use bonus maxed out (~15% extra for pulses, 60% for beams... well if anyone actually fits the beams :s
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.22 07:48:00 - [74] Originally by: j0sephine "this whole thing on blaster users complaining about cap use over rails is beyond me." Lukec said Zealot there... ^^;; lasers with 25% extra rof do eat quite a bit more cap than the rails on the Eagle, even with cap use bonus maxed out (~15% extra for pulses, 60% for beams... well if anyone actually fits the beams :s I need to train reading past level I
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.22 09:22:00 - [75] eagle never was ment to be a hard hitting vessel its more a "get away from my battleship fellaws" vessel. Flewn it quiet often it was ment to chase ppl off, or kill ppl not being fast enough, with a good setup, u can easily kill ceptor, t1 cruisers in no time. Just have to choose the right targets. And ive seen loads of ppl in eagle failing in that. If u are trying to kill ppl already orbiting ur battleships its too late, have to get those far away, so its probally a good idea to stay away from your battleships 60km and then kill ppl with t1 ammo, or kill the t1 cruiers with the enemie gang.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.01.22 09:25:00 - [76] The Eagle is the only HaC capable of hitting at and beyond 150km+ !! That gives it a fairly good role in my opinion It's DPS at that range shouldn't be amazing, For comparison a Zealot with 4 Heavy Beam II /Aurora and 3 heat sink II only has <20dps more than the Eagle. While having around 2/3rd's of the range. Seems fairly balanced to me, Look at the ships bonus's, It wasn't designed to be an up close and personal DPS machine. Alliaanna [FOR SALE]25Mill Sp Amarr Char + Hauler Alt
Sherpondeldey Minmatar SolaR KillerS	Posted - 2007.01.22 12:07:00 - [77] Edited by: Sherpondeldey on 22/01/2007 12:09:55 omg! All i see is gallente whinners again. boost minmatar! give us base 35% kinetic resist to armor or something... 7 turret slots on Claymore (look at EOS) would be fine Eagle is fine as it is. It has its role in fleet. You need to try it.
Daos Leghki Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:09:00 - [78] I'm gonna go out on a limb here. All you Eagle people are pointing to the Rokh and saying that every other Caldari turret ship sucks, is underpowered, etc, and only the Rokh is OK. Perhaps it's the design intent to have the Caldari line be short some damage in exchange for range, and the Rokh was a mistake? It isn't really coincidence that the Merlin, Moa, Ferox and Eagle all do less damage than their other counterparts, but also tank well and have good range.
Mar vel Caldari H.Y.D.R.A. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:33:00 - [79] The EOS / Astarte got 7x turret hardpoint AND (in the case of the EOS) a 300 m3 Drone Bay, lol. Eagle is incredibly underpowered in terms of cobat effectiveness. If CCP is going to leave as-is, jack the PG by about 300 so I can run by neutron beagle w/o 2x RCU2's, and give it a drone bay of 25 m3. Then it would be on par with the other HACs. kthxbye Originally by: Malthros Zenobia For the lovbe of God yes, 5th turrtet please! and 1-2 more turrets for the Ferox and Vulture FFS! The EOS and Astarte get 7 trurret points, why don't we?
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.22 18:53:00 - [80] "The EOS / Astarte got 7x turret hardpoint AND (in the case of the EOS) a 300 m3 Drone Bay, lol." And they're field/fleet command ships while Eagle is heavy assault cruiser. Nighthawk/Vulture are both able to equip 7 weapons, 'though not of them will be turrets.

Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:29:00 - [81] Originally by: Mar vel The EOS / Astarte got 7x turret hardpoint AND (in the case of the EOS) a 300 m3 Drone Bay, lol. Eagle is incredibly underpowered in terms of cobat effectiveness. If CCP is going to leave as-is, jack the PG by about 300 so I can run by neutron beagle w/o 2x RCU2's, and give it a drone bay of 25 m3. Then it would be on par with the other HACs. kthxbye Originally by: Malthros Zenobia For the lovbe of God yes, 5th turrtet please! and 1-2 more turrets for the Ferox and Vulture FFS! The EOS and Astarte get 7 trurret points, why don't we? You can run a neutron beagle without 2x RCU's... With AWU 0 you should have 150 PG left over. With AWU 3 you should have 206 PG left over and with AWU 5 you should have 244 PG left over... So uhhh, i really dont know how you cant fit a neutron beagle without two RCU's, considering the amount of PG you have left over with rather pathetic skills. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2007.01.23 02:17:00 - [82] If the Eagle gets another turret slot, the the Deimos better get another turret slot (with PG/CPU increase) too! Six Blasters!!!! :D Plus Medium NOS! :DD


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