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Imbalance ... the Nano-Inertial Battleships

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:51:00 - [31] Originally by: Siltan I thaught the main problem with the calvery ravens was the 4 vollys of torps that all hit thier target at exactly the same time, which resulted in elimiating any chance of using repairers and pretty much 1 hit kill of players. As to nanophoons etc, anyone tried using webbing drones? Webbing drones are very effective as long as the target is going under 2km/s, but those ships are not excactly the "problem". The ones going -7km/s are. The webbing drones go 1500m/s + skills, so they don't do wonders. With skills and a few drone navigation mods, you could prolly get it to around 2km/s+... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:53:00 - [32] Originally by: Siltan As to nanophoons etc, anyone tried using webbing drones? Last I checked, my webber drones didn't go 5 km/s or more. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:57:00 - [33] Originally by: Laboratus With the T1/T2 gear, the speeds wont exceed 2-3km, and that is still not problematic. Pre-kali they did. Now they do not thanks to he new instabs and more importantly MWD speed rigs. 3 of those give a 45% speed boost. Quote: An I-stab/nano battleship contributes nothing in gangs larger than 5-10, since any sized sniper squad will eat them alive before they have a chance to do anything. Thats not really an balancing argument since the same is the case for any closerange ship. Also, small nanoship gangs work just fine.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:59:00 - [34] Webbing doesnt work against nano ships. Read my previous posts. No amount of drones is goign to be better than 3x Domination Webs on a Huginn Repeat after me : Webbing is not the answer. No matter what, they can get enough inertia to get to the gate. You will NEVER catch a nanodomi that doesnt want to fight. And dont even get me started on how horribly ineffective fighters were. Originally by: Siltan Originally by: Rawthorm The Nanophoon/dommie isnt the brain child of a few smart people. It's a rehash of the old Cavalry ravens and may I remind people that the Cavalry ravens of old were nerfed (The multi-MWD) for being near invincible. Fact of the matter is this new trend can not be allowed. Its one counter (the web) isnt effective as these ships have enough interia still to get out of range and warp off. Not to mention they can outrun anything that could possibly try to get a web on it. Only way these setups can stay in game is if webs have an imeditate effect in halting your ship, instead of letting it cruise down to its now lowered speed with inertia. I thaught the main problem with the calvery ravens was the 4 vollys of torps that all hit thier target at exactly the same time, which resulted in elimiating any chance of using repairers and pretty much 1 hit kill of players. As to nanophoons etc, anyone tried using webbing drones?
mematar The Raven Warriors	Posted - 2007.01.23 10:10:00 - [35] Learn to ******* play! Even if they go at mad speeds there are a lot of weapons out there that can hit them, a lot of things that can stop them. Just learn to play and stop whining! (Had to open up finaly)
Kharriga Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.23 10:10:00 - [36] lets just remove all low and middle slots from all battleships and be done with it? reading the forums for about a year thats the direction we are heading to anyway - "I'm scissors. Paper is fine. Nerf rock!"
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 10:16:00 - [37] Ahh thank the gods that Mematar FINALLY came to our rescue! These are the things I personally have tried multiple times. Please pick an item NOT on this list and tell us your VAST experience in defeating nano-inertial ships. 1. Webbing 2. Bumping 3. Nos-ing 4. Shooting with Missiles 5. Shooting with Projectile Guns 6. Shooting with Hybrids 7. Shooting with Drones 8. Using fighters 9. Small, Medium and Large warp disruptor bubbles 10. Interdiction spheres I for one am SO GLAD you have come to our rescue. I eagerly await your enlightening response. Originally by: mematar Learn to ******* play! Even if they go at mad speeds there are a lot of weapons out there that can hit them, a lot of things that can stop them. Just learn to play and stop whining! (Had to open up finaly)
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.23 10:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Aramendel Pre-kali they did. Now they do not thanks to he new instabs and more importantly MWD speed rigs. 3 of those give a 45% speed boost. Please do share your setup. Without a snake set and a full rack of nanos/I-stabs my domi goes a touch over 2km/s. With a snake set and speed hardwiring plus ofcourse a full faction fit it goes about 4. Do share. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Relnala	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:01:00 - [39] You can't stop a nanophoon with webbers. I've been in 0.0 dealing with them for a while now and their mass carries them right past a webber without really getting slowed by it at all. As was stated before, the only way to actually stop them would be perhaps to web them before they could get the MWD on, which might happen if they're AFK... They can't really be nossed as its hard to get close to them with anything but another nanophoon or interceptor, they're hard to hit with most large guns and mediums dont have the range if they don't want you to hit them. Warp bubbles don't really stop them either, seeing as how they at 5-6kms as some of the ones I've seen lately are can make it to a gate in mere seconds even through a large bubble. Not to mention nanophoons are easily capable of picking off people at a bubble camp because they can knock Tier 3 battleships 50-60km away from their friends. I've never really said anything was unbalanced before, but 6kms in a battleship, even a minmatar one, is kinda excessive. Originally by: Montaire Ahh thank the gods that Mematar FINALLY came to our rescue! These are the things I personally have tried multiple times. Please pick an item NOT on this list and tell us your VAST experience in defeating nano-inertial ships. 1. Webbing 2. Bumping 3. Nos-ing 4. Shooting with Missiles 5. Shooting with Projectile Guns 6. Shooting with Hybrids 7. Shooting with Drones 8. Using fighters 9. Small, Medium and Large warp disruptor bubbles 10. Interdiction spheres I for one am SO GLAD you have come to our rescue. I eagerly await your enlightening response. Originally by: mematar Learn to ******* play! Even if they go at mad speeds there are a lot of weapons out there that can hit them, a lot of things that can stop them. Just learn to play and stop whining! (Had to open up finaly)
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:07:00 - [40] NERF SPEED TANKS!!!11 Make shield and armor the only way to tank! rabble rabble rabble - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?

Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:08:00 - [41] Originally by: Relnala Warp bubbles don't really stop them either, seeing as how they at 5-6kms as some of the ones I've seen lately are can make it to a gate in mere seconds even through a large bubble. Then you seem to have a problem with the placement of the bubble. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Victor Ramirez	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:09:00 - [42] Stack 3 damps on it and warp away?
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:09:00 - [43] Im not quite certian you can get as high as he says you can. But let me try 3 Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stab 3 Local Hull Conversion Nanofiber 3 Speed Rigs for MWD Boost 100 mn Gisti MWD Full set of Snake's Skill Hardwiring Thats about 4200 m/s if my numbers are right. The % boost from the MWD and the I-Stabs interact in a way I dont fully understand. However, I think your average Nanodomi goes about 1600. Its more than enough to pulse at a gate when he jumps through and get to the gate before you can hurt him. Thats the point, he can at his leisure decide he doesnt want to fight and you simply cannot stop him. Here's the typical scenario : 1. Intel reports a Nano-Domi (Damn you Harpo) in a system 3 jumps away. 2. Mobilize the forces on hand, get about 8 people and get the gate camp going, including bubble. 3. He jumps in (We're the next station system). We are ready with an ambush. 4. He simply hits his MWD (deactivating his cloak) and hits "approach" on the gate" 5. I lock him in under 1 second and hit him with the 3 best named Webs, reducing his max speed to 4. 6. He gets to the gate before we kill him based on inertia. By the time we jump through, since he's all nano'd up and his align is lightning, he is gone. We seriously do this 4 or 5 times a week easy, so we've had PLENTY of time to test the damned thing. We've also tried chasing him, haveing double camps set, you name it. Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: Aramendel Pre-kali they did. Now they do not thanks to he new instabs and more importantly MWD speed rigs. 3 of those give a 45% speed boost. Please do share your setup. Without a snake set and a full rack of nanos/I-stabs my domi goes a touch over 2km/s. With a snake set and speed hardwiring plus ofcourse a full faction fit it goes about 4. Do share.
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Montaire Thats the point, he can at his leisure decide he doesnt want to fight and you simply cannot stop him. Here's the typical scenario : 1. Intel reports a Nano-Domi (Damn you Harpo) in a system 3 jumps away. 2. Mobilize the forces on hand, get about 8 people and get the gate camp going, including bubble. 3. He jumps in (We're the next station system). We are ready with an ambush. 4. He simply hits his MWD (deactivating his cloak) and hits "approach" on the gate" 5. I lock him in under 1 second and hit him with the 3 best named Webs, reducing his max speed to 4. 6. He gets to the gate before we kill him based on inertia. By the time we jump through, since he's all nano'd up and his align is lightning, he is gone. We seriously do this 4 or 5 times a week easy, so we've had PLENTY of time to test the damned thing. We've also tried chasing him, haveing double camps set, you name it. Have you deployd the bubble on the gate, or off it? You can, by placing your bubble and tacklers right pull him well off the gate and make him either travel to the gate webbed and distrupted, or fly through the whole bubble. Either way, you will have a good while to shoot at him. I've managed to pull ppl 40km off the gate. Some of my corp mates say they have pulled ppl 100km off the gate by placing the bubble right, but I've never managed to do that. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:31:00 - [45] Doesnt work. Because to do that you have to be in the system he is in, at the gate he wants to warp to. He has to : A) Warp straight to the gate without scanning B) Warp from Gate A to Gate B directly without safespotting Both of those are only somthing an idiot is going to do. If we are going to base our defense on our opponents bieng idiots we might as well put up a sign that says "No good stuff past this point" and hope they fall for it. The only way to ambush him is to catch him unawares on the OTHER side of a gate or to get him to take some bait and follow the bait through to the next system. But its a good thought, we tried it though. The 100km thing does work, Sparta does it in F7C all the time. Originally by: Laboratus Have you deployd the bubble on the gate, or off it? You can, by placing your bubble and tacklers right pull him well off the gate and make him either travel to the gate webbed and distrupted, or fly through the whole bubble. Either way, you will have a good while to shoot at him. I've managed to pull ppl 40km off the gate. Some of my corp mates say they have pulled ppl 100km off the gate by placing the bubble right, but I've never managed to do that.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:42:00 - [46] Originally by: Laboratus Please do share your setup. Without a snake set and a full rack of nanos/I-stabs my domi goes a touch over 2km/s. With a snake set and speed hardwiring plus ofcourse a full faction fit it goes about 4. Do share. Bolded it for you this time. "Pre-kali they did. Now they do not thanks to he new instabs and more importantly MWD speed rigs. 3 of those give a 45% speed boost." Also, considering I can get an Armageddon - which is HEAVIER than a domi - to 2.8 km/s with 4 LH nanos, 2 LH instabs and a t2 100MN MWD maybe you should start training nav and acc con past lvl 2 and stop using t1 equipment. With 3 vent rigs this goes up to 4100 m/s.
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Montaire Doesnt work. Because to do that you have to be in the system he is in, at the gate he wants to warp to. He has to : A) Warp straight to the gate without scanning B) Warp from Gate A to Gate B directly without safespotting Both of those are only somthing an idiot is going to do. If we are going to base our defense on our opponents bieng idiots we might as well put up a sign that says "No good stuff past this point" and hope they fall for it. The only way to ambush him is to catch him unawares on the OTHER side of a gate or to get him to take some bait and follow the bait through to the next system. But its a good thought, we tried it though. The 100km thing does work, Sparta does it in F7C all the time. [ I've found out it pretty much depens on what the system layout is. (wov, one of the few situations where eve has tactical situations based on "terrain"). In systems where gates are not on planets, but somewhere on their own orbit around the sun, you only have one vector of approach. Also depends on how tightly the planets are grouped together. You can also try putting up 2 or more bubbles for different vectors. Rarely there are more then 4. Ofcourse, if the guy has been around the general area for longer, he will have offgrid bookmarks both above the gate and below, so it will not work in that case. Bubblecamping has become a tad easier, since no new deep space BMs can be made with long range probes, that enable easy alternative vectors. I've found that bubble placement is an art. And it very much depends on where it is done. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:49:00 - [48] Originally by: Aramendel Bolded it for you this time. "Pre-kali they did. Now they do not thanks to he new instabs and more importantly MWD speed rigs. 3 of those give a 45% speed boost." Also, considering I can get an Armageddon - which is HEAVIER than a domi - to 2.8 km/s with 4 LH nanos, 2 LH instabs and a t2 100MN MWD maybe you should start training nav and acc con past lvl 2 and stop using t1 equipment. With 3 vent rigs this goes up to 4100 m/s. Thank you. I'm not much of a fan of rigs at this time, Especially as 3 rigs will cost more then the hull and the rest of the fit combined. And yes, I go for expendable, since It's been months that I've seen a gank squad smaller than 5 members, so the expected life of a lone pvp ship is rather short:) ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.23 11:56:00 - [49] Edited by: Aramendel on 23/01/2007 11:58:57 It is, exept for a proper setup nanoship, because they are extremly hard to kill, as Montaire explained multiple times. Yes, it onvolves a bit of isk to set it up, but it's far far less than the "OMG 2 BIL!!!111" people tend to shout here. About 200 mil, in fact. And it gives nanosetups a considerably bigger boost than any other ship gets with that amount of isk. Bar frigates, that is, but those tend not to have the dps, nospower and range of nanoBS. Originally by: Laboratus In systems where gates are not on planets, but somewhere on their own orbit around the sun, you only have one vector of approach. When you see 10 people in local and do not find them on scanner anywhere in the system, would you fly to the single other object which is out of scan range?
Victor Ramirez	Posted - 2007.01.23 12:09:00 - [50] Edited by: Victor Ramirez on 23/01/2007 12:06:25 Originally by: Aramendel When you see 10 people in local and do not find them on scanner anywhere in the system, would you fly to the single other object which is out of scan range? If you've already flown 30 jumps and you're way past the point of turning around then the only reasonable thing to do is to put on your viking helmet, buckle up, yell geronimooooo and charge the gate like your ship's insured and you didn't forget to jump to your +3 implant free clone earlier.

Larkonis Trassler Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:05:00 - [51] Originally by: Montaire I hate when people say that. Its ignorant. I have worked with my Huginn. THREE Domination Webbers, thats as good as they get. And I cant make a Nano-phoon or a Nano-Domi fight if they dont want to. They can ALLWAYS get to the gate and run. Like Interceptors can eh? Hell I've seen MWDing throns do it too. Boohoo your gatecamp can't catch everyone. You drove him back, he hasn't penetrated your space, still a win, no? (You could always try engaging nanophoons away from gates you know). ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:20:00 - [52] Inties tend not to have the dps, nospower and range of nanoBS. Blasterthrons tend not to warp so fast that you need a sensorboosted inty to have a chance to catch them.
Larkonis Trassler Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:33:00 - [53] Originally by: Aramendel Inties tend not to have the dps, nospower and range of nanoBS. Blasterthrons tend not to warp so fast that you need a sensorboosted inty to have a chance to catch them. He's whinging about ships escaping his gatecamps by MWDing back to the gate and jumping back through, not the other supposed imbalences of nanoBS. ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
DunNa	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:42:00 - [54] Originally by: Larkonis Trassler He's whinging about ships escaping his gatecamps by MWDing back to the gate and jumping back through, not the other supposed imbalences of nanoBS. Hes complaining about the ship type as a whole. Saying "well and inty can do it" doesn't mean much what exactly is an inty going to do to most things? pew pew it for afew hours and hope it can break its tank before a friend shows up with a web? A nanobs can on the other hand really put out some serious hurt while ALSO being impossible to kill/catch.

Ivan Kirilenkov Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:42:00 - [55] Right. I'm cleaning this thread, and I've applied some glue, and this is the thread to use if you want to discuss whether or not this kind of setups/ships should be changed. However, I am going to strongly urge all posters to keep it constructive, and civil. Flames and non-constructive posts will be removed, and appropriate action taken. Other threads on this issue in other forums will be locked and pointed here. I'd also like to point out that stickying this thread is a way of dealing with the large amount of threads on this topic, and not an endorsement from CRC that it is an issue. The Devs makes the call on that, we don't. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:07:00 - [56] Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Like Interceptors can eh? Hell I've seen MWDing throns do it too. Boohoo your gatecamp can't catch everyone. You drove him back, he hasn't penetrated your space, still a win, no? (You could always try engaging nanophoons away from gates you know). Agreed. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:14:00 - [57] People, They will nerf i-stabs and nano's eventually its inevitable. BS should not be as agile as a ceptor simple as that (that does not mean they should not be able to go as fast as one, im talking about agility) which at the moment is way way way over powered.
Troubadour Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:47:00 - [58] Everyone on here that is talking arguing about how the rapier and huggin will stop a nanobs is frankly beating a dead horse. They can't. There is too much inertia. Unless the rapier or huggin can go 5-7km/s and stay locked on the bs out of nos range, it isn't happening. Amarr beamships and damping ships are the ships I fear the most in my nanodom. I went up against 2 harbingers before and about 45 seconds later found myself running away in 50% armor. They always hit because of my ****** sig and they tank pretty well themselves. Zealots, Harbingers, some beam-geddons(with a tracking comp or 2), they all BURN without webbing or any other EW involved, but painting does help.
Valdir Mustafar TEMPTATION INC.	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:57:00 - [59] Since this discussion has become a sticky i believe must give my support for the Nano's and Inertias since my setups are based on being fast. These modules are the building fundamental in all minmatar ships (at least for me) since speed is their biggest advantage (all our other advantages are lame compared to other races). So i just want to make sure the Devs now that if they totally nerf the Nano's and Inertias, the minmatar race will really become useless in many ways... NO NERF PLEASE!!! :) (And i'm of course talking PvP since there is no use for the lame module in PVE) ------------------------------------------------ Arr! I stab at thee
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:26:00 - [60] The only issue with nanofiber is that the number of low slots is more relevant to the final speed of ship than its mass or base speed. And that is wrong. An ammar ship with 8 low slots wil be faster than a matarian ship with 6 low slots. And that is wrong. Since some BS have LOTS of low slots, this open up a lot of space to speed inprovment. Changing the SPEED bonus from a fixed value (20ms) (that is for example 10% of a cruiser speed and about 18% of a BS speed) to a fixed percentage value. So if for example a nanofiber gives 10% increase to speed. It would still give same speed bonus to a cruiser, but MUCH lower speed bonus to a Battleship. And that woudl also focus the nanosetups into minmatar ships, and not on the ones that have more low slots. Its so simple and so effective that I really can't understand if CCp do anything different than that. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!



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