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Imbalance ... the Nano-Inertial Battleships

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.02.14 11:07:00 - [871] Originally by: Ysolde Xen Don't mind me, I'm just amused that the battleship people used to set aside their bickering differences to flame together, the poor old Typhoon, is now causing a major headache. Go flying dustbin! Ah, such is the cycle of nerfage and boosting I think I need to start "nerf nosdomi" threads on as many alts as possible, maybe we get a cool sticky too! N.F.F. Recruitment
Ulric Denrai Amarr Ascent of Ages R i s e	Posted - 2007.02.14 11:13:00 - [872] Interceptors needs to be the fasted ships in the came ,not a BS. Other point that makes me sick is a nano bs with cloak. So the only ship that can cloak had to be a Cov ops.Getting sick from all those guys that are hanging for 24/7 in your home system in cloaked ships. Nice when you are a Amarr isn`t .
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.14 11:38:00 - [873] Well, ceptors ARE still the fastest ship in the game, they cann still be made faster than a BS. The problem is that a nanoBS can themself tackle anything but these extreme ceptor setups while not being remotely as vulnerable to nos and having BS class nos power and dps.
WeaponsHot	Posted - 2007.02.14 11:44:00 - [874] I don't see all this long topic be an issue with nanoBS at all Simple because to get all that speed a BS will lose module slots for defense/attack capabilities. Therefore its just one setup for speed like any other setup such as tank/snipping etc. Always with Pros/Cons. Beside that there are always an reaction to an action... there are always ways to take them down.
Xurx Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.02.14 12:05:00 - [875] Read the 29 pages before you make such stupid pro-nano-bs arguments please....
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.02.14 12:52:00 - [876] Originally by: Xurx Read the 29 pages before you make such stupid pro-nano-bs arguments please.... Qft. Looks like all the arguments have been fairly well covered in this thread. CCP, pretty much everybody who doesn't fly one (and some that do) are in agreement that a nerfbat swing is needed. So make with the swinging. sgb
MMoroz Stercus Accidit.	Posted - 2007.02.14 13:10:00 - [877] I would like to point to everyone that there is nothing wrong with bs going faster than intercpetor - we are talking about cosmos. More place bigger engines The only problem are inertia stabilizers their stats should depend on mass of a ship so: 1)they could use cap - small ships small cap needs, big ships big cap needs or 2)powergrid and cpu requirements should depend on mass of the ship
Ugleb Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.14 13:21:00 - [878] Originally by: Rawthorm The Nanophoon/dommie isnt the brain child of a few smart people. It's a rehash of the old Cavalry ravens and may I remind people that the Cavalry ravens of old were nerfed (The multi-MWD) for being near invincible. Fact of the matter is this new trend can not be allowed. Its one counter (the web) isnt effective as these ships have enough interia still to get out of range and warp off. Not to mention they can outrun anything that could possibly try to get a web on it. Only way these setups can stay in game is if webs have an imeditate effect in halting your ship, instead of letting it cruise down to its now lowered speed with inertia. I am agreeing with an EST member on a public forum. That's how messed up the situation is. Rawthorm, some is forgiven. Not all, but a bit. Not only are nano BS stupidly unrealistic but they render other ships obsolete. Why bother with an inty when a bs can go faster and has more hp? Webbing is not a good counter due to the BS drifting through web range and out again on inertia. Bumping relies on being lucky enough to have a ship in a position to get a bump in so thats hardly a counter 'tactic'. A nano BS is only liable to go down to a larger group setup specifically to catch it in a relatively 'controlled' situation. Otherwise forget it.
Yuleth Gix	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:29:00 - [879] Originally by: JVol Originally by: Serzath Some questions: what is the role of a battleship? i think the answer is, tanking and do damage to stationary installations and other equaly or bigger ships (bs's dreads, carriers etc). what is the role of smaller sized ships? i think the answer is, protecting the larger ships vs hostiles What is the role of an interceptor i think the answer is, as the name sugests....intercepting other ships. If above answers are correct...then we now have a ship with a module setup that doesn't fit in his role.... OK, here it is finally. THIS is the narrow minded thinking that is fueling all of the "nerf it" if it doesn't fit into their cookie cutter molds. The above questions, are ridiculous, as are the "wrong answers" to them...The dev's wouldn't give us so may options if the ships HAD to fill the roles of conventional thinking and nothing more. Basially everyone is crying so hard because it is possible to spend a few billion on riggings and officer mods to make a ship that doesn't conform with their preconcieved notions of the ROLE said ship is supposed to be taking on. So wait... it sounds to me like you're upset because you can't predict easily what to expcect an encounter to be like just by knowing what ship is on the scanner... hmmmm go cry somewhere else.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.14 20:36:00 - [880] Originally by: Yuleth Gix Basially everyone is crying so hard because it is possible to spend a few billion on riggings and officer mods to make a ship that doesn't conform with their preconcieved notions of the ROLE said ship is supposed to be taking on. So wait... it sounds to me like you're upset because you can't predict easily what to expcect an encounter to be like just by knowing what ship is on the scanner... hmmmm go cry somewhere else. if by "a few billion" you mean "300m" then yes, you spend "a few billion" A tech 2 typhoon for 300m will hit 5km/s at max skills. This isnt out of line for a tech 2 battleship, but the quality of how it flies certianly is. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

D'kar Minmatar Dark Times Tech.	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:34:00 - [881] I'm honestly surprised we haven't heard from one of the higher ups about this dicsussion - seems to me that almost 30 pages of discussion should draw some attention, but then again... What do I know? Answer - Not much... :) I've had limited encounters with the nanophoons, but when I did, they are near impossible to get in range unless you are really fitted right... and then I'm not sure how well the tactics will work against them... either way, there's a lot of people commenting on this apparent balance issue and it seems that the devs should step in and make some kind of statement... but I'll simply refer to my previous comment... Ref > What do I know? _______________ Dark Times Tech
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:48:00 - [882] Originally by: D'kar I'm honestly surprised we haven't heard from one of the higher ups about this dicsussion - seems to me that almost 30 pages of discussion should draw some attention uh, they stickied the topic so that tells you they aren't ignoring it. not everyone gets to have a job like me and spend all day commenting and replying on the forums. I think they may actually have work to do Originally by: D'kar I'm not sure how well the tactics will work against them... either way, there's a lot of people commenting on this apparent balance issue and it seems that the devs should step in and make some kind of statement... but I'll simply refer to my previous comment... Ref > What do I know? While the squeeky wheel normally gets the oil, in eve, when you have over 100,000 wheels, your brain starts to drown out the squeeking noise after awhile. the devs dont give in to issues over the # of pages the topic reaches on the forums. they sticky this so all the ppl can talk it out and in the end, they will make the changes they think should be made.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.14 23:31:00 - [883] Originally by: D'kar I'm honestly surprised we haven't heard from one of the higher ups about this dicsussion - seems to me that almost 30 pages of discussion should draw some attention, but then again... What do I know? Most discussions dont need developer comment. But all of the large ones get noticed. You can rest easy that the developers have seen and read the thread. And if they havent, one of the forum handlers will point it out to them. Comments by devs are dangerous things due to expectations they cause. Even the small "we're looking at it" causes people to make assumptions. When taking into account the community reaction to developer comments it is fairly easy to see why few are made and why they need to be as clear as possible. As such, you probably shouldnt expect a developer comment until they have decided and agreed to do something concrete about it. But even if they dont say anything, they have certianly seen the thread and are likly considering what to do. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Zxepa	Posted - 2007.02.15 09:24:00 - [884] They're only a few ships that can actually go nano effectively: Nanoyrimidon Nanonix Nanotar Nanophoon Nanocurse Nanocane (with an exception to the vagabond) Now, the only ones that can actually maintain their cap for more then 45 seconds: Nanonix Nanophoon Nanocurse The ones that can be rendered completely useless with a few well aimed pot shots or even a smartbomb: Nanonix (Drones) Nanocurse (Drones) The conclusive real issue: Nanophoon Much praised by its pie's and much maligned by its karebears, the nanophoon-class battleship has always been one of the most horrifically overpowered spacefaring vessels around. Its distinguishing aspect - and the source of most of the controversy - is its sheer nanobillity, variously seen as either a lack of care for eve players or a deliberate "oops" on ccp's part.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.02.15 10:51:00 - [885] Noticed how no-one uses overdrive injectors? Un-used modules are always a good indicator of an imbalance somewhere. As I see it, if you want such extreme speed you should have to use overdrives and have the manoeuvrability of a flying brick (and momentum to boot). ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2007.02.15 17:12:00 - [886] As stated by Tux in his Dev Blog, the way speed works at the moment is flawed and all you guys moaning about nona BS - well there is your answer. Now please tell me that BS should do that speed - no MWD nerf on the way - if this effects ceptors im sure there correct it for those too
Fenderson OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2007.02.15 18:31:00 - [887] i would be alot happier if these setups could at least be countered by the ship that is supposed to have the role they have stolen. if interceptors could catch nanoBS and somehow not be nossed to death, they would be (imo) balanced. As it stands, a well outfitted inty can catch up to a nanoBS but its pointless to try due to the nos factor. i dont see a problem with nanocurse, as they are still fairly easy to kill on straight damage and are not as fast as their BS counterparts. so my 2 cents on this discussion is NERF NOS. not completely, but at least give it a factor of either sig radius or tracking. got new corp, need new sig. mail me ingame.
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:01:00 - [888] Edited by: welsh wizard on 15/02/2007 19:57:48 Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: welsh wizard Originally by: Xurx The sad part is that after 28 pages, and countles other threads, there is still no word from ccp... I think we're in for a long run with this one... Well they stickied it so I reckon they accept that its something to be looked at. Fingers crossed. They stickied it because they were sick of having 20 threads a day on the subject. That's not saying they'll actually notice it now. Also, update: Yep, they're still fun. I warp jammed a rather slow sader with my 28km scrambler and kept him in range with it long enough to catch up and nos him dead. He had a Psuedoelecton DCU. I love those! Also, I fought my worst nightmare as part of a mini-fleet op: A big ol' gang of BCs. Why are those scary? Well, as I stated, medium guns (even long range ones) can track a nanophoon and blast it at least enough to drive it away, if not to outright kill it. They even had a flycatcher I only noticed halfway in that could have webbed me without me even noticing him! But they didn't fire on me, so all's well and we got some nice kills out of it. But boy, the loot they'd have if they decided to actually go for me (I was in web range half the time, I'd be toast) devblog disagrees.
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:17:00 - [889] I FIGURED OUT A FIX!!!! ok enough with the caps already not sure if someone else mentioned it or nto but i got an idea to fix nano ships... 10-20% reduction to max velocity bonus of micro warp drives and 5-10% reduction to after burners. Eg: a 500% MWD would be (assuming the 20% reduction) 400% MWD after the first 320% after the second and 258% after the third (not point after that) A 100% afterbruner would be (assuming 10% reduction) 90 then 81 then 71.9 etc. Problem solved. Even if u mix in istabs it nerfs it pretty bad so its not sploitable anymore. And if istabs are going to be a problem just add a 5% penalty to each for the use of each istab. since they dont produce a speed increase that should suffice. this would make it so you would have to do a mix of istabs / nanos / overdrives to get any decent speed for a true nano kit and event hen its no longer an unfair advantage. As for people who use them on ceptors (this includes myself) adapt or die =) There are alot of other kits for frigs that don't include speed mods taht are just as effective. ----------- "Mercinaries never die, we just go to hell to regroup." -xOm3gAx '99
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:35:00 - [890] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 15/02/2007 19:57:48 Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: welsh wizard Originally by: Xurx The sad part is that after 28 pages, and countles other threads, there is still no word from ccp... I think we're in for a long run with this one... Well they stickied it so I reckon they accept that its something to be looked at. Fingers crossed. They stickied it because they were sick of having 20 threads a day on the subject. That's not saying they'll actually notice it now. Also, update: Yep, they're still fun. I warp jammed a rather slow sader with my 28km scrambler and kept him in range with it long enough to catch up and nos him dead. He had a Psuedoelecton DCU. I love those! Also, I fought my worst nightmare as part of a mini-fleet op: A big ol' gang of BCs. Why are those scary? Well, as I stated, medium guns (even long range ones) can track a nanophoon and blast it at least enough to drive it away, if not to outright kill it. They even had a flycatcher I only noticed halfway in that could have webbed me without me even noticing him! But they didn't fire on me, so all's well and we got some nice kills out of it. But boy, the loot they'd have if they decided to actually go for me (I was in web range half the time, I'd be toast) devblog disagrees. Devblog occured several days after I posted that, so whatever. I'm still using it to the bitter end. ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY Down with alts! One character per account per IP!

Pavlinka Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:47:00 - [891] i just hope, if they will nerf nanoBSs, that will not affect other ships like ceptors/vagabond and why u all dont take target distruptor or sth like that and just distrupt him .... he will not be able to shoot and np, u will not kill him but he also cant Pavlinka & Pavlinecka
jamesw Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:15:00 - [892] People in nano BS are obviously not concerned by the fact they have 1/2 the hull they usually have. Indeed, if you never get hit, having 50% of your original hp really doesnt matter, and if a nano ship gets caught it will die either way due to no tank. I say change nanofiber penalty from -15% hull hp, to -15% capacitor capacity. This hits nanoships where it hurts. That is all. And no, i havent read this thread at all, so if its been suggested already, its been suggested again. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Kwerkus Ilf Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:09:00 - [893] Just wanted to refute a couple of quotes from the recent dev blog about speed: Quote: When going into a fight we want people to commit to a fight. That means when you go into a fight you are risking your ship or ships, not just warping in on anything and if you can't handle it you just warp off. Doesn't this run counter to the whole idea of skirmish warfare, guerrilla warfare -- ie. the entire point of the Minmatar? This statement needs to be retracted or restated so that it makes sense relative to the role that Minmatar are supposed to play in the game. Yes speed needs a nerf, but the dynamics of the game don't dictate that you should have to be fully committed in every fight -- that is boring and favors blobbing. I like the ideas that favor nerfing ridiculous speed (like battleships going 4km/s) but please don't overdo this one. Incremental change is a lot easier to callibrate than sudden massive shifts. Quote: Disable the cap injector when the mwd is active isn't really a perfect solution as you'd probably be able to sustain it with few cap modules and nosferatus. It however would make such a setup a lot more vulnerable to being nossed itself. This just makes nos more powerful than it already is -- you would need nos to sustain a MWD and nos is able to stop MWDing ships... hmm, ya think the nanocurses are going to get a lot more popular if this happens? Anyway, I like guerilla tactics. Please don't ruin them with ham-fisted patching. -K -K [URL=http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4499216][/URL]
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:33:00 - [894] Originally by: jamesw People in nano BS are obviously not concerned by the fact they have 1/2 the hull they usually have. Indeed, if you never get hit, having 50% of your original hp really doesnt matter, and if a nano ship gets caught it will die either way due to no tank. I say change nanofiber penalty from -15% hull hp, to -15% capacitor capacity. This hits nanoships where it hurts. That is all. And no, i havent read this thread at all, so if its been suggested already, its been suggested again. Ok and this doesn't hurt inties, stabbers, vagabonds and any other ships which were designed for speed exactly how? N.F.F. Recruitment
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:57:00 - [895] It would prolly hurt them, but not even remotely as much. A vaga or inty do not really need to fit a single nano for viable setups (even speedsetups). A nanoBS needs to fit at least 3 nanos. Although a nano cap penality would not have much of a balancing effect - the "bad" nanoships do not mainly rely on their cap recharge to power their nos, but on cap from their target and injectors.
Terell Princeps Corp	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:49:00 - [896] Just one world,.... THXS !!!....thxs ccp for nerfing nano-bs
CoLe Blackblood Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:28:00 - [897] Edited by: CoLe Blackblood on 16/02/2007 02:30:32 "When going into a fight we want people to commit to a fight." Two different styles of air-to-air combat were prevalent in World War II. The Japanese Zero, for instance, was a dogfighter. It's strength was being able to turn and fight at low speeds. In contrast, the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, was an energy fighter. It relied on keeping its speed high, hitting hard and fast, then getting distance from its target to repeat its attack. If it tried to turn with a Zero, to knife-fight with it, it was dead. But through its superior speed it could dictate a fight by hit-and-run tactics. "Combat in EVE was always supposed to be more about tactics and strategy rather than twitch movement." The energy fighter had different tactics than did the dogfighter. Strategy should not require everyone to stand 100km away from one another blasting with their muskets. We might as well don red coats, and we know how that fight went. The nanoship is far from a twitch fighter, it is an energy fighter, using hit and run tactics to gain superiority. Slowing it down kills it. I can understand the developers wanting more strategy in-game. If nanos are nerfed so be it, but that's not how you get more strategy, that's cutting out a whole faction of it. ~CoLe Blackblood
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.16 04:21:00 - [898] Yes, but the energy fighter had to get in range of the knife fighter in order to be successfull. Nano-BSs dont and simply stay away the entire time. Your equivelent of sitting at 100km and slugging, except orbiting at 22km and launching missiles. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
CoLe Blackblood Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 04:49:00 - [899] yes but the dogfighter could not get a gun solution on a fast range-dictating fighter, only by forcing a head-on pass(bad for both) or rolling to get a quick snap-shot as the energy fighter passed by. Roll back Pre-Kali before you nerf MWD ~CoLe Blackblood
Mortuus Minmatar Just-fun Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.16 06:48:00 - [900] That whole energy fighting thing is a great example if EvE was similar to aerial combat in any way. Its much closer to WW2 naval combat. ex-Occassus Republica <3



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