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Change in the wind for virtual property sales?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Vidar Kentoran Minmatar Provenance.	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:18:00 - [31] Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 30/01/2007 02:18:59 Quote: Will it put all the RMT vendors out of business, or will this get rid of the 'Mom & Pop' RMT shops and push the buyers into doing business with the big sites? Probably somewhere in between. Of course it won't put anyone out of business. It's silly to even suggest this. There are other auction sites which are also widely used for this, and even created for it. This is a multi-billion dollar business in asia, where people are already forming trade unions around it. The "battle" has already been lost. RMT's not going anywhere, because people want to do it. It's only the minority of hardcore players (people who believe that there are "real accomplishments" in-game that should somehow be magically disconnected from real life) who think that RMT needs to die. The rest of the world just wants to have fun, and when fun means grinding something boring for hours just to get to the part they want to get to, they are happy, even eager to pay to get there faster. Especially since high income people often have less free time.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:24:00 - [32] Originally by: FuzzBuzz Edited by: FuzzBuzz on 30/01/2007 02:03:33 so no more gtc for isk? This might also mean "we will be selling ISK for $$ soon" ...
dicolfenacl	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:34:00 - [33] sees subscripers count dropping
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:44:00 - [34] Originally by: Vidar Kentoran Especially since high income people often have less free time, and time = money. It's really not a surprise that people with lots of free time and little money don't think that money should convert into time, but that's not really a reasonable or sane position. This has been discussed over and over in these (and other games') forums. It is a reasonable position, but you have to draw a line somewhere. You don't win chess games by paying more money instead of thinking long and hard, so why would we want RL wealth to influence a game like EVE? As someone with a lot of free time and very high income I refuse to let games be destroyed by people who want to carry their RL "achievements" over to EVE where they are - or should be - irrelevant.
Pellaeon DuGalle Caldari Deep Black Industries	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:54:00 - [35] You know...maybe instead of insta-banning isk sellers, the Devs could simply list their names and locations in forums. Not sure how that would decrease isk selling, but it sure would be fun. ------------------- "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible."
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2007.01.30 03:29:00 - [36] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Vidar Kentoran Especially since high income people often have less free time, and time = money. It's really not a surprise that people with lots of free time and little money don't think that money should convert into time, but that's not really a reasonable or sane position. This has been discussed over and over in these (and other games') forums. It is a reasonable position, but you have to draw a line somewhere. You don't win chess games by paying more money instead of thinking long and hard, so why would we want RL wealth to influence a game like EVE? As someone with a lot of free time and very high income I refuse to let games be destroyed by people who want to carry their RL "achievements" over to EVE where they are - or should be - irrelevant. Why should you be able to "win" a chess game by being broke-arse, jobless, or otherwise enabled by real life "advantages" that confer upon you the ability to play any MMO 16 plus hours a day or what not????????? Alot of people who are "successfull" in Eve are only that way because of access to grossly abnormal amounts of playtime. Just to be clear, I don't support EBAY because it allows people other than the intellectual rights holders(CCP) to profit from Eve. But I am fullsquare in support of GTC for isk sales because it funnels the profit to CCP while allowing people with normal amounts of playtime the ability to have another accountperhaps or enough isk to play the game and have fun without compromising their jobs, family obligations, etc.
Vicarias T Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.30 03:40:00 - [37] How about once or twice a week we are allowed to open fire on 'Dfjnjoq57j2' that has been with 'Caldari Noob Corp' for 6 months and 7 days! Seriously, I find it best to report the macro miners in a petition as soon as they're discovered. But at the same time I wonder just how bad CCP would want to lose these accounts that add up to tens of thousands in earnings for them. Problem, yes. Solvable, yes! CCP anxiuos to solve...hmmm?
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.01.30 04:19:00 - [38] Edited by: Pan Crastus on 30/01/2007 04:21:46 Originally by: Tokyo Rose Why should you be able to "win" a chess game by being broke-arse, jobless, or otherwise enabled by real life "advantages" that confer upon you the ability to play any MMO 16 plus hours a day or what not????????? It is neither necessary nor the best way to be successful in EVE to play 16 hours a day, although it helps you get experience. In the same way, you can become a successful chess player by investing a lot of time, or even a football player, scientist, you name it. Quote: Alot of people who are "successfull" in Eve are only that way because of access to grossly abnormal amounts of playtime. Like who for example? Quote: But I am fullsquare in support of GTC for isk sales because it funnels the profit to CCP while allowing people with normal amounts of playtime the ability to have another accountperhaps or enough isk to play the game and have fun without compromising their jobs, family obligations, etc. You can play the game fine without buying ISK, unless you're a complete idiot, it's designed that way. It's the people who need to buy e-peen who are destroying this game, they should go play "Second Life" or something where they can actually buy an e-peen-enlargement for $$$.
Marcus Grisbius Gallente Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe	Posted - 2007.01.30 04:54:00 - [39] Edited by: Marcus Grisbius on 30/01/2007 04:51:50 Originally by: kieron It will be interesting to see the effect this policy enforcement (not change, it has been Ebay's policy for a very long time) will have on RMT vendors. Will it put all the RMT vendors out of business, or will this get rid of the 'Mom & Pop' RMT shops and push the buyers into doing business with the big sites? Probably somewhere in between. We can only do so much though. For RMT to completely stop, it will take the gaming community as a whole to stop purchasing items and currency for real cash. We will continue to do our part, enforce the EULA and deal with buyers and sellers as we find them. The MMOG community needs to do their part by not buying or selling in-game items, boycotting sites that sell items or RMT advertising, or link to those sites and simply take a stand. I categorically deny the accusations that our corp is selling isk.... uh, wait.. nvm Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 05:49:00 - [40] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. You CANT be serious! I just go to this lucrative business and now your shutting it up?! I have plenty of codes sitting unused because I cannot use 'em until my CC payments rans out. Why on earth your doing this? Well, this will affect your customer base very much. sigh Well at least there will be flood of cheap GTC's before you pull the plug. Playing Caldari-Online as a Amarr specced is PURE Hardcore
Quineverre	Posted - 2007.01.30 06:07:00 - [41] Originally by: Pan Crastus Edited by: Pan Crastus on 30/01/2007 04:21:46 Originally by: Tokyo Rose Why should you be able to "win" a chess game by being broke-arse, jobless, or otherwise enabled by real life "advantages" that confer upon you the ability to play any MMO 16 plus hours a day or what not????????? It is neither necessary nor the best way to be successful in EVE to play 16 hours a day, although it helps you get experience. In the same way, you can become a successful chess player by investing a lot of time, or even a football player, scientist, you name it. Quote: Alot of people who are "successfull" in Eve are only that way because of access to grossly abnormal amounts of playtime. Like who for example? Quote: But I am fullsquare in support of GTC for isk sales because it funnels the profit to CCP while allowing people with normal amounts of playtime the ability to have another accountperhaps or enough isk to play the game and have fun without compromising their jobs, family obligations, etc. You can play the game fine without buying ISK, unless you're a complete idiot, it's designed that way. It's the people who need to buy e-peen who are destroying this game, they should go play "Second Life" or something where they can actually buy an e-peen-enlargement for $$$. The problem is in peoples minds. Succesfull to many means richer as everyone else, bigger as everyone else, more dangerous as everyone else. We (the gamers in general) are so used to play games where we can be a winner or where we can outrank others that playing Eve takes time to adjust. Sure there will always be those who have so much cash you cant beat them in that, sure there will always be those who played for three years and have a gang of friends who did the same and are hard to beat in a shooting match. But this doesnt mean they won the game, it just means they gotten strong in one very specific department. For a newbie its hard to see that 3 months into the game you could be able to beat experienced players on lots of things in this game. Nobody can do it all, nobody has all the skills. This misguided idea there is something to win in Eve is probably the main reason people are willing to buy isk. While Ebay isnt the only one I do think this is a serious blow to the idiots who sell isk cause of the size of Ebay and the fact that its the most wellknown international trades site. Tip for newbies that want to advance in the game: Find yourself some likeminded eve friends in the eve ingame chats. If you are short on time find yourself people who dont mind that and start your own corp with them. Strenght in numbers goes a long way in eve for just abuot every career you can think off.
DirtyHarry Caldari Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.30 06:52:00 - [42] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. Best post ive seen this year from CCP, I hope "change" means stop, the GTC for isk should never have been allowed in the first place... now its an epidemic. Havocide - DirtyHarryF-E Homepage F-E Killboard
Vidar Kentoran Minmatar Provenance.	Posted - 2007.01.30 07:04:00 - [43] Quote: You don't win chess games by paying more money instead of thinking long and hard, so why would we want RL wealth to influence a game like EVE? If you really believe that RL wealth doesn't influence chess, or any number of sports, then you should probably check your assumptions. I'd guess that the influence of RL money on any given sport or mainstream game you can name is far more powerful and significant than the influence of RL money on EVE through the RMT.
Arcadia1701 Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:01:00 - [44] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. hmmm say bye to a few thousand players if they stop the GTc for ISk, case. Maybe me included.
Spix 'UK	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:02:00 - [45] u take away GTC you will take away half ur player base.. I for 1 - have paid with real life money on game time cards to have my second account active in hoping he makes more isk to keep him goin ... with GTC & now you tell me it could all be for waste so il have to pay more real life cash to keep both accounts open? .. hmm Think not CCP.. you can go ******* .
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:06:00 - [46] lol, sure ban gtc sales, way to remove russian plague from the game so that bob/mc dev alts would rule supreme over eve.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:07:00 - [47] Don't worry too much, they won't stop it and can't even. It would encourage more black market RMT to go back on what they did before. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Asael Caldari Nathlin Enterprises Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:16:00 - [48] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. If it is going to be disallowed, to buy your subscription with your isk, then you are losing 4 players. Since me and 3 of my friends are fulltime students thus too broke to pay for a online game ><. Sofar letting someone else pay the 60 dollars a month so we can invest the money into food is keeping us ingame, would hate to loose the possibility to play Eve. And i am sure that i am not the only dirtpoor student who likes to enjoys Eve between seminars. ______________________________ Nathlin Enterprises Inc. CEO -Everto es hic servo Mihi
Yuna	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:28:00 - [49] If they stop GTC<>ISK trade how will the Goons then finance their wars?
Raneru eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.30 09:10:00 - [50] Edited by: Raneru on 30/01/2007 09:11:00 Sounds mostly like a loophole for macrominers that they are closing. Pay for an account until your characters can sustain themselves then use only isk to subscribe and generate a profit. Are you famous? Check Here!
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.30 09:17:00 - [51] I am so a supporter of removal of GTC for ISK system. As it is now it unbalances the market (same thing macrominers do). I highly doubt they would lose 'half' their customer base, more like 10 - 20% since alot of people WILL adapt and start using credit cards or pay-by-cash. Unfortunatly i have no inside man in CCP financial adminstration but i figure they took that 10 - 20% income loss in account and will happily take it if they can stabilise the market, get some less lag and make alot of people happy. (not to mention it takes alot of GM time fixing all issues related to GTC sales..) Basilisk Fitting Link
Nezz Jaran	Posted - 2007.01.30 09:57:00 - [52] I say keep the selling of GTCs for ISK, but if it's at all possible, limit it to once / twice per account per month. I will admit to buying and selling two GTCs. What that has done is given me more flexibility in what I can afford to do ("Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" ring a bell?) and allowed me to drive greater pleasure from the game. Now, I don't have to worry about what happens if I lose a BC, and I'm not buggered if I lose my barge fittings. I still play it safe, but it means I can take more risks if I really want. It also means I can buy my T2 Barge and not suck up resources from the corp, which in turn can be used to help other corp members. Oh, and the reason I went the route of selling a couple of GTCs instead of earning the ISK? I typically work 60-70 hours per week and feel that my time is more valuable than grinding missions / belt rats / roids for ISK without getting frustrated. I can't properly PvP yet as I'm still fairly new and most of the people in my neck of the woods (whom aren't completely green) are double my age and whoop my backside in combat. Now, at least, I don't have to worry about how I'll make money if I lose a ship. Oh, and no, I didn't spend most of the ISK right away. I replaced a lost cruiser (was thinking about a BC but I want to up my skills more first), bought a couple of T2 fittings, donated a little to the corp and the rest is banked on another character, to be used only when I really need it.
Nezz Jaran	Posted - 2007.01.30 09:57:00 - [53] I say keep the selling of GTCs for ISK, but if it's at all possible, limit it to once / twice per account per month. I will admit to buying and selling two GTCs. What that has done is given me more flexibility in what I can afford to do ("Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" ring a bell?) and allowed me to drive greater pleasure from the game. Now, I don't have to worry about what happens if I lose a BC, and I'm not buggered if I lose my barge fittings. I still play it safe, but it means I can take more risks if I really want. It also means I can buy my T2 Barge and not suck up resources from the corp, which in turn can be used to help other corp members. Oh, and the reason I went the route of selling a couple of GTCs instead of earning the ISK? I typically work 60-70 hours per week and feel that my time is more valuable than grinding missions / belt rats / roids for ISK without getting frustrated. I can't properly PvP yet as I'm still fairly new and most of the people in my neck of the woods (whom aren't completely green) are double my age and whoop my backside in combat. Now, at least, I don't have to worry about how I'll make money if I lose a ship. Oh, and no, I didn't spend most of the ISK right away. I replaced a lost cruiser (was thinking about a BC but I want to up my skills more first), bought a couple of T2 fittings, donated a little to the corp and the rest is banked on another character, to be used only when I really need it.
Awox Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:12:00 - [54] Originally by: Nezz Jaran I say keep the selling of GTCs for ISK, but if it's at all possible, limit it to once / twice per account per month. Now this makes sense! I think it's great people with no money can play EVE. I think it's stupid that people can buy billions of ISK instantly through GTC selling, I don't think CCP meant for it to be a way for Red Alliance to build their dreadnaughts or whatever.
Awox Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:12:00 - [55] Originally by: Nezz Jaran I say keep the selling of GTCs for ISK, but if it's at all possible, limit it to once / twice per account per month. Now this makes sense! I think it's great people with no money can play EVE. I think it's stupid that people can buy billions of ISK instantly through GTC selling, I don't think CCP meant for it to be a way for Red Alliance to build their dreadnaughts or whatever.
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:44:00 - [56] Hmmm stop selling GTC for isk.. I kinda disagree in someways, i mean there's very few MMO's that let you play for the "in game currency". At the end of the day CCP arent really loosing cash, there's still someone buying the card and then that person gets to sell that card, which lets someone else continue to play for isk. Admittedly I dont use the system, but I think its fine. However to solve macrominer problems.. thats a different story My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:46:00 - [57] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. <3 And I don't see how people can claim that buying GTCs is the only way they can play the game with a straight face. It costs about 3 quid a week to play. 3 measly quid. Most kids get more pocketmoney than that. Open up a lemonade stall if you can't get the cash. I think that's what children are supposed to do when they're skint. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.30 11:12:00 - [58] People who've leaned too hard on paying their account subscription fees with GTCs <-> ISK trades must have known it was a temporary system. Heck it might not get removed now, or 6 months from now but its still a grey area. Personally I wouldn't want to build accounts up like a house of cards that if it collapses couldn't be sustained with real life cash. I guess "don't fly what you can't afford" applies to real life too in this case
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.30 11:18:00 - [59] I await further news with baited breath. For the record, I really intensely dislike the 'GTC <-> isk' trade, and not least because I _have_ considered it. Buying gametime for isks I don't see as so much of a problem, as actually getting isks for out of game cash (which lets face it, is what GTCs are). shrug. We'll see I guess.
HatePeace LoveWar Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 11:28:00 - [60] Gah please don't get rid of GTC, or in the very least fix the paypall issue before you decide to drop them.

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