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Change in the wind for virtual property sales?

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Cerwyn Taraman Minmatar Phoenix Tech Industries Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.01.26 21:19:00 - [1] Not sure how many read Slashdot on here but just saw this VERY interesting story: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/26/2026257 Basically eBay has decided to take the policy of de-listing all virtual goods sales (gold, isk, items etc) since the legality of selling other's IPO is very nebulous. Pretty interesting stuff if they actually follow through with the promised bans of repeat offenders. This perhaps doesn't have quite as much relevance here since the sanctioned way of getting isk is to buy a GTC and then sell it on the Sell forums (that discussion is best left to existing threads). Just thought i'd start a discussion about eBay's new policy and how it might positively/negatively impact EVE. Cerwyn
Tek'a Rain Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.26 21:34:00 - [2] link for lazy: Linkage and this might belong over in EOTE
Omega Vistage	Posted - 2007.01.27 00:01:00 - [3] I predict the cost of goods will drop now that every noob won't be billionaires...
Alexi Borizkova Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.27 00:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Omega Vistage I predict the cost of goods will drop now that every noob won't be billionaires... Because it takes a vet to buy and sell GTC?
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude	Posted - 2007.01.27 00:09:00 - [5] Originally by: Alexi Borizkova Originally by: Omega Vistage I predict the cost of goods will drop now that every noob won't be billionaires... Because it takes a vet to buy and sell GTC? Exactly, with PPL willing to pay RL money to get ahead in the game just expect more GTC's to be sold! Not wanting to derail this thread I will never understand why this was eve allowed.
ChironV Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.27 00:24:00 - [6] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Originally by: Alexi Borizkova Originally by: Omega Vistage I predict the cost of goods will drop now that every noob won't be billionaires... Because it takes a vet to buy and sell GTC? Exactly, with PPL willing to pay RL money to get ahead in the game just expect more GTC's to be sold! Not wanting to derail this thread I will never understand why this was eve allowed. I would rather someone give their money to CCP for isk than some macro mining sweatshop owner. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
Kolatha	Posted - 2007.01.27 03:00:00 - [7] Honestly, this move won't do a thing about the sales of virtual goods. All that will happen is you will see a mass of entries along the lines of "Buy this week old sandwich and get a megasuperiwinbutton Sword for free". Since the virtual goods (ISK, gold or megaiwin swords) are now offered as "promotional incentive" for buying otherwise worthless junk there isn't going to be all that much ebay can do about it.
Altaree Gallente Red Frog Investments Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.27 13:00:00 - [8] Ebay can do what ever it likes. All they need to do is change a user agreement.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.27 15:08:00 - [9] the trouble is the biggest offenders arent even with ebay.
pass lake	Posted - 2007.01.27 16:09:00 - [10] I suspect that noobs are buying isk on ebay, so removing this source of isk should be deflationary for lower priced ships/equipment that noobs would be buying. Less money chasing the same number of goods should make the items increase in price. Of course there are lots of variables. This assumes noobs buy low priced stuff and manufacturing output stays the same.
Menkaure Amarr Vanitas Corp.	Posted - 2007.01.27 17:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker the trouble is the biggest offenders arent even with ebay. Character sales certainly are. No more "meh i've quit eve, ill stick my char on ebay" mentality. Although im sure goldselling sites and stuff will be quick to fill in the void ebay has left.
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.27 21:46:00 - [12] Its a nice gesture, but I'm certain we won't see one less ice macrominer/farmer because of it.
Edgars Sults LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.27 22:47:00 - [13] GTC prices falling! Woohoo! More gametime for me.
Lt Widowmaker Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.28 00:14:00 - [14] Edited by: Lt Widowmaker on 28/01/2007 00:11:27 Well, lets ask the people who do it, So AAA/RA were will you sale your goods at how that your money maker is gone... OH NOES!!! This is what I think will happen, AAA/RA will lose about 80% of the member bases because they need to start getting real jobs.. LV takes over ALL of AAA/RA space, rents the space out. BOB will also lose about 50% of there members do to having to find a real job, D2 kills bob and moves south, Razer takes over all D2 space, or gets invited down south, FE (the alliance), will take over all the left over space up noth.. With in, 2 months price of mins will grow back to morn due to a lot of the nigh end mirco miners are gone due to they lost there job (ebay selling isk).. :) I think this is a good thing....
Crystal Girl	Posted - 2007.01.28 01:36:00 - [15] Someone else picks up where eBay left off. IGE is a monster already anyways.
Ben Derindar KelBen Productions	Posted - 2007.01.28 02:59:00 - [16] Nice gesture, though too little too late. /Ben How to fix Eve
Lt Widowmaker Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.28 04:07:00 - [17] Edited by: Lt Widowmaker on 28/01/2007 04:05:57 IGE is dread also, as some may know some may not, but they do 100% of there sales through a ebay account('s).. Now that e-bay is no longer doing VGC sales, they will closed also. CCP Keep this up please, drive all them ******* away that play this game for a living and not for fun.. Bring life back in to eve. Good work, I'm sure everyone who plays this game for fun, is very happy right now.
Allen Deckard Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.01.28 16:13:00 - [18] A serious question comes to mind. How much of the eve economy has been built around the macro miners? It's not like they are new to the game. They been here since long before I started in 04. How many of the game mechanics have been adjusted around these people? Everything from mineral requirements to mining yields and asteroid repopulations have been adjusted either on purpose with these guys in mind or adjusted because they exist without the word macro in mind. Another question just exactly how many of the people here will fill their shoes to mine the trit needed to keep the wheels turning? Or will we all just pay 4.2 or so for trit by recycling npc passive targeters. Just currious I dont support macro miners in any way shape or form have no desire to sell anything on ebay and have never bought anything. But how much of the game has been unconsiously woven around these properties. Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free
Soulis Slacker Industries	Posted - 2007.01.28 16:17:00 - [19] about time tbh Oh Noes!!!11 We Only Role Play Hetrosexuals!!
0raven0 Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.29 00:01:00 - [20] Originally by: Lt Widowmaker Edited by: Lt Widowmaker on 28/01/2007 00:11:27 Well, lets ask the people who do it, So AAA/RA were will you sale your goods at how that your money maker is gone... OH NOES!!! This is what I think will happen, AAA/RA will lose about 80% of the member bases because they need to start getting real jobs.. LV takes over ALL of AAA/RA space, rents the space out. BOB will also lose about 50% of there members do to having to find a real job, D2 kills bob and moves south, Razer takes over all D2 space, or gets invited down south, FE (the alliance), will take over all the left over space up noth.. With in, 2 months price of mins will grow back to morn due to a lot of the nigh end mirco miners are gone due to they lost there job (ebay selling isk).. :) I think this is a good thing.... dang, looks like ebay and D2 were planning this thing from the start! They let ebay build up BoB's economy and then right when its time for the D2-BoB war ebay pulls the mat out from under BoB's feet. HOORAY!! BOBS GANNA DIE! if only...
0raven0 Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.29 00:05:00 - [21] THIS IS SO EXCITING!! Kinda like when a new patch is announced but you don't know whats ganna be in it, you can only specualate. I can't wait to see what happens when all the macro miners are gone! /me goes to train mining skills

kieron	Posted - 2007.01.29 23:07:00 - [22] It will be interesting to see the effect this policy enforcement (not change, it has been Ebay's policy for a very long time) will have on RMT vendors. Will it put all the RMT vendors out of business, or will this get rid of the 'Mom & Pop' RMT shops and push the buyers into doing business with the big sites? Probably somewhere in between. We can only do so much though. For RMT to completely stop, it will take the gaming community as a whole to stop purchasing items and currency for real cash. We will continue to do our part, enforce the EULA and deal with buyers and sellers as we find them. The MMOG community needs to do their part by not buying or selling in-game items, boycotting sites that sell items or RMT advertising, or link to those sites and simply take a stand. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Mikal Drey Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.29 23:17:00 - [23] hey hey although they have said they are going to delist virtual property there is still a load of items still up for sale. I'll believe it when i see it.
exozone Gallente Oldtimers INC	Posted - 2007.01.29 23:27:00 - [24] Edited by: exozone on 29/01/2007 23:24:36 thats a good point kieron, it's actually more the buyers fault than the sellers, if theres a market, people will buy. We need to out the buyers than the sellers. If they can't buy, the sellers dry up, hence, less way's to get isk this way Reguards, Exo edit: spelling
Nadarius Chrome Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.29 23:33:00 - [25] I've never been overly worried about people buying ISK. If I was, I wouldn't buy GTC with ISK as it's pretty much the same thing. Newbs buying a bigger ship will only lose it due to not having the skills to support it. Experienced PvP'ers who simply don't want to grind PvE for funds will just spend more of their time doing what they want. I do hope it kicks the macrominers in the gut, but I doubt it will. I imagine most are contracted directly to reselling websites rather than flogging their junk through ebay. Dealing direct with the customer would be far too much of a hassle. As it stands, CCP could probably stand to do more to combat macroers directly. I imagine flagging/tracking accounts with large outflow of cash, or any number of other things. Of course, they may already be doing this behind the scenes.
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.30 00:01:00 - [26] Originally by: kieron It will be interesting to see the effect this policy enforcement (not change, it has been Ebay's policy for a very long time) will have on RMT vendors. Will it put all the RMT vendors out of business, or will this get rid of the 'Mom & Pop' RMT shops and push the buyers into doing business with the big sites? Probably somewhere in between. We can only do so much though. For RMT to completely stop, it will take the gaming community as a whole to stop purchasing items and currency for real cash. We will continue to do our part, enforce the EULA and deal with buyers and sellers as we find them. The MMOG community needs to do their part by not buying or selling in-game items, boycotting sites that sell items or RMT advertising, or link to those sites and simply take a stand. Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. Oh, wait. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...

kieron	Posted - 2007.01.30 01:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

FuzzBuzz Caldari Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:04:00 - [28] Edited by: FuzzBuzz on 30/01/2007 02:03:33 so no more gtc for isk?
Jodie Amille Sadist Faction	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:14:00 - [29] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. I really hope that doesn't mean you're stopping the GTC's for ISK trade. If it does, I guess I'm going to be letting my account run out I really shouldn't even be paying for my main right now, there's no way I can afford to run my second account till someone in my little town is hiring again It's another case of a few ruining it for those of us that need it and use it as it's meant to be. ------
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:15:00 - [30] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. That is perhaps the best news I've heard so far this year. If you were near me (and not merely on the other end of some internets) I would probably engage you in a manly bear hug -----------------------------------------------
Vidar Kentoran Minmatar Provenance.	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:18:00 - [31] Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 30/01/2007 02:18:59 Quote: Will it put all the RMT vendors out of business, or will this get rid of the 'Mom & Pop' RMT shops and push the buyers into doing business with the big sites? Probably somewhere in between. Of course it won't put anyone out of business. It's silly to even suggest this. There are other auction sites which are also widely used for this, and even created for it. This is a multi-billion dollar business in asia, where people are already forming trade unions around it. The "battle" has already been lost. RMT's not going anywhere, because people want to do it. It's only the minority of hardcore players (people who believe that there are "real accomplishments" in-game that should somehow be magically disconnected from real life) who think that RMT needs to die. The rest of the world just wants to have fun, and when fun means grinding something boring for hours just to get to the part they want to get to, they are happy, even eager to pay to get there faster. Especially since high income people often have less free time.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:24:00 - [32] Originally by: FuzzBuzz Edited by: FuzzBuzz on 30/01/2007 02:03:33 so no more gtc for isk? This might also mean "we will be selling ISK for $$ soon" ...
dicolfenacl	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:34:00 - [33] sees subscripers count dropping
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:44:00 - [34] Originally by: Vidar Kentoran Especially since high income people often have less free time, and time = money. It's really not a surprise that people with lots of free time and little money don't think that money should convert into time, but that's not really a reasonable or sane position. This has been discussed over and over in these (and other games') forums. It is a reasonable position, but you have to draw a line somewhere. You don't win chess games by paying more money instead of thinking long and hard, so why would we want RL wealth to influence a game like EVE? As someone with a lot of free time and very high income I refuse to let games be destroyed by people who want to carry their RL "achievements" over to EVE where they are - or should be - irrelevant.
Pellaeon DuGalle Caldari Deep Black Industries	Posted - 2007.01.30 02:54:00 - [35] You know...maybe instead of insta-banning isk sellers, the Devs could simply list their names and locations in forums. Not sure how that would decrease isk selling, but it sure would be fun. ------------------- "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible."
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2007.01.30 03:29:00 - [36] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Vidar Kentoran Especially since high income people often have less free time, and time = money. It's really not a surprise that people with lots of free time and little money don't think that money should convert into time, but that's not really a reasonable or sane position. This has been discussed over and over in these (and other games') forums. It is a reasonable position, but you have to draw a line somewhere. You don't win chess games by paying more money instead of thinking long and hard, so why would we want RL wealth to influence a game like EVE? As someone with a lot of free time and very high income I refuse to let games be destroyed by people who want to carry their RL "achievements" over to EVE where they are - or should be - irrelevant. Why should you be able to "win" a chess game by being broke-arse, jobless, or otherwise enabled by real life "advantages" that confer upon you the ability to play any MMO 16 plus hours a day or what not????????? Alot of people who are "successfull" in Eve are only that way because of access to grossly abnormal amounts of playtime. Just to be clear, I don't support EBAY because it allows people other than the intellectual rights holders(CCP) to profit from Eve. But I am fullsquare in support of GTC for isk sales because it funnels the profit to CCP while allowing people with normal amounts of playtime the ability to have another accountperhaps or enough isk to play the game and have fun without compromising their jobs, family obligations, etc.
Vicarias T Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.30 03:40:00 - [37] How about once or twice a week we are allowed to open fire on 'Dfjnjoq57j2' that has been with 'Caldari Noob Corp' for 6 months and 7 days! Seriously, I find it best to report the macro miners in a petition as soon as they're discovered. But at the same time I wonder just how bad CCP would want to lose these accounts that add up to tens of thousands in earnings for them. Problem, yes. Solvable, yes! CCP anxiuos to solve...hmmm?
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.01.30 04:19:00 - [38] Edited by: Pan Crastus on 30/01/2007 04:21:46 Originally by: Tokyo Rose Why should you be able to "win" a chess game by being broke-arse, jobless, or otherwise enabled by real life "advantages" that confer upon you the ability to play any MMO 16 plus hours a day or what not????????? It is neither necessary nor the best way to be successful in EVE to play 16 hours a day, although it helps you get experience. In the same way, you can become a successful chess player by investing a lot of time, or even a football player, scientist, you name it. Quote: Alot of people who are "successfull" in Eve are only that way because of access to grossly abnormal amounts of playtime. Like who for example? Quote: But I am fullsquare in support of GTC for isk sales because it funnels the profit to CCP while allowing people with normal amounts of playtime the ability to have another accountperhaps or enough isk to play the game and have fun without compromising their jobs, family obligations, etc. You can play the game fine without buying ISK, unless you're a complete idiot, it's designed that way. It's the people who need to buy e-peen who are destroying this game, they should go play "Second Life" or something where they can actually buy an e-peen-enlargement for $$$.
Marcus Grisbius Gallente Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe	Posted - 2007.01.30 04:54:00 - [39] Edited by: Marcus Grisbius on 30/01/2007 04:51:50 Originally by: kieron It will be interesting to see the effect this policy enforcement (not change, it has been Ebay's policy for a very long time) will have on RMT vendors. Will it put all the RMT vendors out of business, or will this get rid of the 'Mom & Pop' RMT shops and push the buyers into doing business with the big sites? Probably somewhere in between. We can only do so much though. For RMT to completely stop, it will take the gaming community as a whole to stop purchasing items and currency for real cash. We will continue to do our part, enforce the EULA and deal with buyers and sellers as we find them. The MMOG community needs to do their part by not buying or selling in-game items, boycotting sites that sell items or RMT advertising, or link to those sites and simply take a stand. I categorically deny the accusations that our corp is selling isk.... uh, wait.. nvm Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 05:49:00 - [40] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. You CANT be serious! I just go to this lucrative business and now your shutting it up?! I have plenty of codes sitting unused because I cannot use 'em until my CC payments rans out. Why on earth your doing this? Well, this will affect your customer base very much. sigh Well at least there will be flood of cheap GTC's before you pull the plug. Playing Caldari-Online as a Amarr specced is PURE Hardcore
Quineverre	Posted - 2007.01.30 06:07:00 - [41] Originally by: Pan Crastus Edited by: Pan Crastus on 30/01/2007 04:21:46 Originally by: Tokyo Rose Why should you be able to "win" a chess game by being broke-arse, jobless, or otherwise enabled by real life "advantages" that confer upon you the ability to play any MMO 16 plus hours a day or what not????????? It is neither necessary nor the best way to be successful in EVE to play 16 hours a day, although it helps you get experience. In the same way, you can become a successful chess player by investing a lot of time, or even a football player, scientist, you name it. Quote: Alot of people who are "successfull" in Eve are only that way because of access to grossly abnormal amounts of playtime. Like who for example? Quote: But I am fullsquare in support of GTC for isk sales because it funnels the profit to CCP while allowing people with normal amounts of playtime the ability to have another accountperhaps or enough isk to play the game and have fun without compromising their jobs, family obligations, etc. You can play the game fine without buying ISK, unless you're a complete idiot, it's designed that way. It's the people who need to buy e-peen who are destroying this game, they should go play "Second Life" or something where they can actually buy an e-peen-enlargement for $$$. The problem is in peoples minds. Succesfull to many means richer as everyone else, bigger as everyone else, more dangerous as everyone else. We (the gamers in general) are so used to play games where we can be a winner or where we can outrank others that playing Eve takes time to adjust. Sure there will always be those who have so much cash you cant beat them in that, sure there will always be those who played for three years and have a gang of friends who did the same and are hard to beat in a shooting match. But this doesnt mean they won the game, it just means they gotten strong in one very specific department. For a newbie its hard to see that 3 months into the game you could be able to beat experienced players on lots of things in this game. Nobody can do it all, nobody has all the skills. This misguided idea there is something to win in Eve is probably the main reason people are willing to buy isk. While Ebay isnt the only one I do think this is a serious blow to the idiots who sell isk cause of the size of Ebay and the fact that its the most wellknown international trades site. Tip for newbies that want to advance in the game: Find yourself some likeminded eve friends in the eve ingame chats. If you are short on time find yourself people who dont mind that and start your own corp with them. Strenght in numbers goes a long way in eve for just abuot every career you can think off.
DirtyHarry Caldari Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.30 06:52:00 - [42] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. Best post ive seen this year from CCP, I hope "change" means stop, the GTC for isk should never have been allowed in the first place... now its an epidemic. Havocide - DirtyHarryF-E Homepage F-E Killboard
Vidar Kentoran Minmatar Provenance.	Posted - 2007.01.30 07:04:00 - [43] Quote: You don't win chess games by paying more money instead of thinking long and hard, so why would we want RL wealth to influence a game like EVE? If you really believe that RL wealth doesn't influence chess, or any number of sports, then you should probably check your assumptions. I'd guess that the influence of RL money on any given sport or mainstream game you can name is far more powerful and significant than the influence of RL money on EVE through the RMT.
Arcadia1701 Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:01:00 - [44] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. hmmm say bye to a few thousand players if they stop the GTc for ISk, case. Maybe me included.
Spix 'UK	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:02:00 - [45] u take away GTC you will take away half ur player base.. I for 1 - have paid with real life money on game time cards to have my second account active in hoping he makes more isk to keep him goin ... with GTC & now you tell me it could all be for waste so il have to pay more real life cash to keep both accounts open? .. hmm Think not CCP.. you can go ******* .
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:06:00 - [46] lol, sure ban gtc sales, way to remove russian plague from the game so that bob/mc dev alts would rule supreme over eve.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:07:00 - [47] Don't worry too much, they won't stop it and can't even. It would encourage more black market RMT to go back on what they did before. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Asael Caldari Nathlin Enterprises Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:16:00 - [48] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. If it is going to be disallowed, to buy your subscription with your isk, then you are losing 4 players. Since me and 3 of my friends are fulltime students thus too broke to pay for a online game ><. Sofar letting someone else pay the 60 dollars a month so we can invest the money into food is keeping us ingame, would hate to loose the possibility to play Eve. And i am sure that i am not the only dirtpoor student who likes to enjoys Eve between seminars. ______________________________ Nathlin Enterprises Inc. CEO -Everto es hic servo Mihi
Yuna	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:28:00 - [49] If they stop GTC<>ISK trade how will the Goons then finance their wars?
Raneru eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.30 09:10:00 - [50] Edited by: Raneru on 30/01/2007 09:11:00 Sounds mostly like a loophole for macrominers that they are closing. Pay for an account until your characters can sustain themselves then use only isk to subscribe and generate a profit. Are you famous? Check Here!
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.30 09:17:00 - [51] I am so a supporter of removal of GTC for ISK system. As it is now it unbalances the market (same thing macrominers do). I highly doubt they would lose 'half' their customer base, more like 10 - 20% since alot of people WILL adapt and start using credit cards or pay-by-cash. Unfortunatly i have no inside man in CCP financial adminstration but i figure they took that 10 - 20% income loss in account and will happily take it if they can stabilise the market, get some less lag and make alot of people happy. (not to mention it takes alot of GM time fixing all issues related to GTC sales..) Basilisk Fitting Link
Nezz Jaran	Posted - 2007.01.30 09:57:00 - [52] I say keep the selling of GTCs for ISK, but if it's at all possible, limit it to once / twice per account per month. I will admit to buying and selling two GTCs. What that has done is given me more flexibility in what I can afford to do ("Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" ring a bell?) and allowed me to drive greater pleasure from the game. Now, I don't have to worry about what happens if I lose a BC, and I'm not buggered if I lose my barge fittings. I still play it safe, but it means I can take more risks if I really want. It also means I can buy my T2 Barge and not suck up resources from the corp, which in turn can be used to help other corp members. Oh, and the reason I went the route of selling a couple of GTCs instead of earning the ISK? I typically work 60-70 hours per week and feel that my time is more valuable than grinding missions / belt rats / roids for ISK without getting frustrated. I can't properly PvP yet as I'm still fairly new and most of the people in my neck of the woods (whom aren't completely green) are double my age and whoop my backside in combat. Now, at least, I don't have to worry about how I'll make money if I lose a ship. Oh, and no, I didn't spend most of the ISK right away. I replaced a lost cruiser (was thinking about a BC but I want to up my skills more first), bought a couple of T2 fittings, donated a little to the corp and the rest is banked on another character, to be used only when I really need it.
Nezz Jaran	Posted - 2007.01.30 09:57:00 - [53] I say keep the selling of GTCs for ISK, but if it's at all possible, limit it to once / twice per account per month. I will admit to buying and selling two GTCs. What that has done is given me more flexibility in what I can afford to do ("Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" ring a bell?) and allowed me to drive greater pleasure from the game. Now, I don't have to worry about what happens if I lose a BC, and I'm not buggered if I lose my barge fittings. I still play it safe, but it means I can take more risks if I really want. It also means I can buy my T2 Barge and not suck up resources from the corp, which in turn can be used to help other corp members. Oh, and the reason I went the route of selling a couple of GTCs instead of earning the ISK? I typically work 60-70 hours per week and feel that my time is more valuable than grinding missions / belt rats / roids for ISK without getting frustrated. I can't properly PvP yet as I'm still fairly new and most of the people in my neck of the woods (whom aren't completely green) are double my age and whoop my backside in combat. Now, at least, I don't have to worry about how I'll make money if I lose a ship. Oh, and no, I didn't spend most of the ISK right away. I replaced a lost cruiser (was thinking about a BC but I want to up my skills more first), bought a couple of T2 fittings, donated a little to the corp and the rest is banked on another character, to be used only when I really need it.
Awox Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:12:00 - [54] Originally by: Nezz Jaran I say keep the selling of GTCs for ISK, but if it's at all possible, limit it to once / twice per account per month. Now this makes sense! I think it's great people with no money can play EVE. I think it's stupid that people can buy billions of ISK instantly through GTC selling, I don't think CCP meant for it to be a way for Red Alliance to build their dreadnaughts or whatever.
Awox Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:12:00 - [55] Originally by: Nezz Jaran I say keep the selling of GTCs for ISK, but if it's at all possible, limit it to once / twice per account per month. Now this makes sense! I think it's great people with no money can play EVE. I think it's stupid that people can buy billions of ISK instantly through GTC selling, I don't think CCP meant for it to be a way for Red Alliance to build their dreadnaughts or whatever.
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:44:00 - [56] Hmmm stop selling GTC for isk.. I kinda disagree in someways, i mean there's very few MMO's that let you play for the "in game currency". At the end of the day CCP arent really loosing cash, there's still someone buying the card and then that person gets to sell that card, which lets someone else continue to play for isk. Admittedly I dont use the system, but I think its fine. However to solve macrominer problems.. thats a different story My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.30 10:46:00 - [57] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro Damn right! I firmly believe that if the community pitches in as a whole and gets together, enforces these rules themselves and shuns the ISK sellers then we can have an EVE where the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. <3 And I don't see how people can claim that buying GTCs is the only way they can play the game with a straight face. It costs about 3 quid a week to play. 3 measly quid. Most kids get more pocketmoney than that. Open up a lemonade stall if you can't get the cash. I think that's what children are supposed to do when they're skint. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.30 11:12:00 - [58] People who've leaned too hard on paying their account subscription fees with GTCs <-> ISK trades must have known it was a temporary system. Heck it might not get removed now, or 6 months from now but its still a grey area. Personally I wouldn't want to build accounts up like a house of cards that if it collapses couldn't be sustained with real life cash. I guess "don't fly what you can't afford" applies to real life too in this case
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.30 11:18:00 - [59] I await further news with baited breath. For the record, I really intensely dislike the 'GTC <-> isk' trade, and not least because I _have_ considered it. Buying gametime for isks I don't see as so much of a problem, as actually getting isks for out of game cash (which lets face it, is what GTCs are). shrug. We'll see I guess.
HatePeace LoveWar Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 11:28:00 - [60] Gah please don't get rid of GTC, or in the very least fix the paypall issue before you decide to drop them.
HatePeace LoveWar Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 11:28:00 - [61] Gah please don't get rid of GTC, or in the very least fix the paypall issue before you decide to drop them.
Eilene Fernite	Posted - 2007.01.30 12:06:00 - [62] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Nero Scuro the only way to buy ISK with cash is off CCP through GTCs. This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. God, forum panics ftw. Now calm down, and read again what Kieron said, and what he responded to. So what's going to change? The fact that right now the only way to buy ISK with cash is through GTC sales. He's not saying how that's going to change. I'll bet CCP are going to introduce a service where you can buy ISK with cash directly from them. And they'll keep the GTC for ISK business too. Unfortunately.
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.30 12:50:00 - [63] Good stuff! RMT s a topic fervently discussed time and again on various occasions and forums, and it is indeed relevant in modern online gaming. I am going to briefly explain why I object it. Games are restricted, virtual environments for competition. We are given different tools and are required to complete different tasks to advance. Games, like life in general and it's different facets more specifically, favour certain skills and attributes. In this way, those attributes and skills are measured, and rewards designated accordingly. Take for example market brokering in EVE. The skills and attributes required (or encouraged) may be, for example wit, patience, perseverance, willingness to take risks and understanding of mathematics and economy. These may or may not be accurate, but the point is that certain player dependent skills or attributes are favoured, and that way measured. Players thrive to excel in brokering and in other facets of EVE, many of which require different skill sets and attributes. The competition, therefore, is built around these requirements as much as a running competition is built around being fast and/or having stamina. To introduce a new, unrelated way of competing and reaching the rewards previously only accessible through certain traits and skills such as the possibility of converting out of game assets into game assets is to fundamentally alter the nature of that competition. The effect such change has on players' motivation is undoubtedly great. Players who were motivated to develop, learn and work for goals will be betrayed by the alternative route to success. Their achievements are undermined by an unjustifiable factor. Competition is what makes games fun. A game of chess challenges players to think strategically -- winning and losing are of course inevitably inherent to the game, but the challenge and the joy of improving are also essential. If you introduce an unrelated factor like how well someone can sing, how much money they have or how many plastic ducks they own, it beats the purpose of that game. Of course you can argue that the money and the plastic ducks are well earned, but that is completely irrelevant. The point of the game is to test strategic thinking, not measure plastic duck collections. They have their own games and competitions for that. So, in conclusion, just because someone is an olympic swimmer does not mean they deserve to automatically win a cycling contest. That is the gist of unjustifiable manipulation of measured skills, attributes and resources. It is often argued that time is the basic unit that should be convertable to games. Following the same logic people who spend time practicing tennis should be equally good in scuba diving. Or, in fact, everyone should be good in everything because everyone spends their time on something and it's just brutally unfair that they have to choose. ---
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem	Posted - 2007.01.30 13:25:00 - [64] Originally by: Cerwyn Taraman Edited by: Cerwyn Taraman on 27/01/2007 18:28:11 Edited by: Cerwyn Taraman on 26/01/2007 21:38:07 Edited by: Cerwyn Taraman on 26/01/2007 21:37:52 Not sure how many read Slashdot on here but just saw this VERY interesting story: The Summary of the Story Basically eBay has decided to take the policy of de-listing all virtual goods sales (gold, isk, items etc) since the legality of selling other's IPO is very nebulous. Pretty interesting stuff if they actually follow through with the promised bans of repeat offenders. This perhaps doesn't have quite as much relevance here since the sanctioned way of getting isk is to buy a GTC and then sell it on the Sell forums (that discussion is best left to existing threads). Just thought i'd start a discussion about eBay's new policy and how it might positively/negatively impact EVE. I think this does fall as EVE related though as if you have ever looked there are hundreds of ISK auctions and Character sales for EVE on eBay. Cerwyn Edit: made it a link and gave reasoning for why its eve related Edit2: updated topic to refer to eBay having worked in a department almost solely dedicated to trawling e-bay and removing auctions of this nature for a games company, i think it's about time that this happened. real world traders are scum, and they tie up resources and man power that could be better spent making improvements that the real players would like to see. ========================================== Iy
Tarkan Kador Amarr PanTarkan Kador Holdings	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:54:00 - [65] Edited by: Tarkan Kador on 30/01/2007 16:50:54 Ultimately, the game runs on the backs of the people who pay, not the people who play. Right now, we have people who seem to love playing EVE, and love maintaining accounts, but not enough to pay for those accounts. Accounts that are using up research slots in the stations, memory on the nodes, memory in the database, and bandwith in places like Jita. These are finite resources that subscribers who pay each month must share alongside those that refuse to pay for the service. Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected])
Cerwyn Taraman Minmatar Phoenix Tech Industries Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:03:00 - [66] Well I don't really like the GTC for isk issue, but the people doing it ARE paying for their subscription because somewhere, somehow, along the line of sales, CCP is getting paid for the Gametime card by whoever is reselling it for isk here, so it really doesnt matter WHO uses it as long as the GTC was bought and not stolen somehow.
Tarkan Kador Amarr PanTarkan Kador Holdings	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:39:00 - [67] Originally by: Cerwyn Taraman Well I don't really like the GTC for isk issue, but the people doing it ARE paying for their subscription because somewhere, somehow, along the line of sales, CCP is getting paid for the Gametime card by whoever is reselling it for isk here, so it really doesnt matter WHO uses it as long as the GTC was bought and not stolen somehow. The only ones who are paying for their subscriptions are people like me, and we pay for it in terms of a compromised game. The guy who bought the GTCs some time ago doesn't pay for it, because he never took up any service resources today. Nor does the person who buys the GTCs for ISK pay for it, because they never paid revenue to maintain and expand the finite service resources today. The ones who pay for it are the ones who are running around looking for a research slot, fighting lag, and trying to get petitions answered. Because not only are they paying this month, for service this month, they have to put up with people running four and five extra accounts demanding equal service for each at the level of someone who paid this month, but pay nothing this month for the privilege. Whatever was sold or not sold from CCP's store over the last three years shouldn't impact my experience this month, but it is. Because I pay for a month of service this month, and if the reason I'm experiencing late petitions, or full research slots, or memory leaks this month is because the ones who aren't paying this month are demanding monthly service in excess, then I'm not getting the service I should expect this month. Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected])
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.30 19:43:00 - [68] Originally by: Tarkan Kador Originally by: Cerwyn Taraman Well I don't really like the GTC for isk issue, but the people doing it ARE paying for their subscription because somewhere, somehow, along the line of sales, CCP is getting paid for the Gametime card by whoever is reselling it for isk here, so it really doesnt matter WHO uses it as long as the GTC was bought and not stolen somehow. The only ones who are paying for their subscriptions are people like me, and we pay for it in terms of a compromised game. The guy who bought the GTCs some time ago doesn't pay for it, because he never took up any service resources today. Nor does the person who buys the GTCs for ISK pay for it, because they never paid revenue to maintain and expand the finite service resources today. The ones who pay for it are the ones who are running around looking for a research slot, fighting lag, and trying to get petitions answered. Because not only are they paying this month, for service this month, they have to put up with people running four and five extra accounts demanding equal service for each at the level of someone who paid this month, but pay nothing this month for the privilege. Whatever was sold or not sold from CCP's store over the last three years shouldn't impact my experience this month, but it is. Because I pay for a month of service this month, and if the reason I'm experiencing late petitions, or full research slots, or memory leaks this month is because the ones who aren't paying this month are demanding monthly service in excess, then I'm not getting the service I should expect this month. What ?
Tarkan Kador Amarr PanTarkan Kador Holdings	Posted - 2007.01.30 19:56:00 - [69] Originally by: FingerThief What ? In short: I pay good money each month to be here, and have to put up with problems caused by those who don't pay. Simple enough? Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected])
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.01.30 20:08:00 - [70] Originally by: FingerThief Originally by: Tarkan Kador Originally by: Cerwyn Taraman Well I don't really like the GTC for isk issue, but the people doing it ARE paying for their subscription because somewhere, somehow, along the line of sales, CCP is getting paid for the Gametime card by whoever is reselling it for isk here, so it really doesnt matter WHO uses it as long as the GTC was bought and not stolen somehow. The only ones who are paying for their subscriptions are people like me, and we pay for it in terms of a compromised game. The guy who bought the GTCs some time ago doesn't pay for it, because he never took up any service resources today. Nor does the person who buys the GTCs for ISK pay for it, because they never paid revenue to maintain and expand the finite service resources today. The ones who pay for it are the ones who are running around looking for a research slot, fighting lag, and trying to get petitions answered. Because not only are they paying this month, for service this month, they have to put up with people running four and five extra accounts demanding equal service for each at the level of someone who paid this month, but pay nothing this month for the privilege. Whatever was sold or not sold from CCP's store over the last three years shouldn't impact my experience this month, but it is. Because I pay for a month of service this month, and if the reason I'm experiencing late petitions, or full research slots, or memory leaks this month is because the ones who aren't paying this month are demanding monthly service in excess, then I'm not getting the service I should expect this month. What ? I can afford a 15 year subscribtion to eve in GTC/isk terms. Happy? Signature removed as it fails to comply with the rules. Also, please think of the epileptics :) -Ivan K
Darnish Montrey	Posted - 2007.01.30 20:14:00 - [71] It seems funny that a game like EVE even thinks they can stop isk for cash. No matter how you try there will never be a way to stop those that want to get stuff from the game for cash. Bring in Vivox and you will see what I mean.
WhiskeyDP The Druids	Posted - 2007.01.30 21:58:00 - [72] i got a question i been wondering for a while. what happens if i buy gtc's for lets say 3-400b and extend my account(s) that would be equal to 300+ years gaming. what happens if they close down eve in lets say 10years. can i get a refund in rlm? ================== === eve is not all about isk, its about enjoying the game. lots of iskies is not the same as enjoying the game
QwaarJet Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.30 22:08:00 - [73] Quote: This will soon change. Unfortunately, I cannot go further into the forthcoming changes at this time. Please don't ditch GTC. I have health issues which prevent from earning much ISK without selling Game Time Cards. I know there a lot of whiners, but there are also loads of people who rely on them, not just me. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Agama Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.01.30 22:44:00 - [74] Edited by: Agama on 30/01/2007 22:42:36 Personally I cannot wait till the day they ban the whole Isk<->GTC's issue. The whole system is borked and is open to abuse. ie Alliances letting isk farmers run 0.0 complexes as long as the isk farming team gives the alliance a cut of the isk, knowing that the isk farmers are selling isk->GTC->cash. Its wrong wrong wrong. 'Death solves all problems- no man, no problem' J.V. Stalin, 1918
Apollo Kreed Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.01.31 01:59:00 - [75] I think a lot of the anti-GTCers are missing a few key points. CCP is a business, the level of service they provide to us is related in proportion to the amount of profits they receive. If profits fall below a certain line service begins to fall. If profits stop all together Eve either gets sold to another company or simply goes off line. CCP has a decent player base, but hardly one I would call large. The player base is large enough to allow the game designers to keep the game growing and most likely to turn a reasonable profit. But it's certainly not large enough that losing 1% or even 2% of it's paying customers each month wouldn't be felt. GTC sales offer something to the people buying those GTCs that you can't get in most MMOs, a way to play an online game without having to have a CREDIT CARD or a BANK ACCOUNT. Face it, some people have terrible credit, debts, etc. Whatever the reason there are a number of people that simply don't have access to a way to purchase things online. GTC sales let those people play. This is still profit CCP sees each month because people with a way to purchase things online are the ones buying the codes. If GTC sales for isk becomes a thing of the past it will take a lot of players with it that have no means other then in game currency to play. As far as the morality behind it I couldn't care less when faced with the fact that CCP is a business, as well as a game I enjoy playing. If the
KHEN Gallente New Horizons	Posted - 2007.01.31 02:20:00 - [76] Edited by: KHEN on 31/01/2007 02:17:30 Well I'll never maintain as many active accounts than now if I can't pay the subscription fees with isks. I'm pretty sure that thousands of accounts will be immediately cancelled if ccp bans GTC sales. So I'll probably switch and try another MMO, and no, nobody will get my stuff (around 200 Bil isks worth) because that would be cheating, griefing, harming all these clever people who whined since so long about GTC sales. not so biggie at all regards
shakatak	Posted - 2007.01.31 02:48:00 - [77] Edited by: shakatak on 31/01/2007 02:49:25 u have 348563489563489 units of money and u need to spend 1 unit to get a navy raven . what's your call ? OFC NO !!!!! plan B. play eve for 5 month then u get a navy raven and die in a lag. it's insta quit the game. -1
Nezz Jaran	Posted - 2007.01.31 03:44:00 - [78] Edited by: Nezz Jaran on 31/01/2007 03:40:49 Originally by: Tarkan Kador I pay good money each month to be here, and have to put up with problems caused by those who don't pay. I pay good money each month to be here, and I also paid good money so that two other people can be here for three months. Also have a corp member who is ONLY rejoining Eve because he got a GTC for a present, since he can't afford to pay a the monthly fee. So, where EXACTLY is the harm in that? Edited to change goo money to good money. I didn't realize that I had change in my pod.
FuzzBuzz Caldari Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.31 03:56:00 - [79] im sure you can add more than 1 gtc a time :) may as well buy 4 3 monthers if you have the cash, you wont loose much, depending on the prices in a year if they are still allowed
Curzon Dax Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.31 05:37:00 - [80] Kieron mentioned change; here's an idea: Remember Sony-bay? Where Sony started two servers where you could sell / buy virtual goods? What's to say that we don't end up with an EVEbay that does the same? Players are GOING to find a way to buy virtual goods, regardless of its violation of EULAs. Capitalizing on it, and draining the profits that illegal third parties are making, by hosting that ability yourself isn't a bad idea. :) --------------------------------- Deadly Swarm Gah! Sig nerfed. Stay tuned!
Trotski II Rasta Tropical Club	Posted - 2007.01.31 08:08:00 - [81] I really hope they don¦t simply ban GTC for ISK. The moment i get tired, have little time, too much interference with real life with playing EVE instead of keep my two accounts running i will just liquidade all my assets and i won¦t let my hard earned billions vanish. At the moment people get more ISK buy selling GTC then by buying directly from sellers on ebay or e-game stores. That will just generate more macro and profissional farmers online. And i can see also massive amounts of isk being selled to them by people quiting the game. Now if you have some isk in your wallet you have no incentive to quit game even if you just log to change long time skills. If you are a tech2 tychoon with hundreads of billions and don¦t want/no time to play/can¦t keep paying subscription would you just give all your stuff away or let it vanish instead of converting it to real $$$? I WOULDN¦T. I ain¦t rich and i have a family to feed. These are my thoughts on the subject.
KHEN Gallente New Horizons	Posted - 2007.01.31 09:24:00 - [82] Edited by: KHEN on 31/01/2007 09:22:55 Originally by: Trotski II If you are a tech2 tychoon with hundreads of billions and don¦t want/no time to play/can¦t keep paying subscription would you just give all your stuff away or let it vanish instead of converting it to real $$$? I WOULDN¦T. I ain¦t rich and i have a family to feed. These are my thoughts on the subject. Your thoughts are against EULA. In game assets remain CCP property, you have no right on these. Isks worth peanuts. Even if you are not rich, you can be an honest man, and if you have a family that needs you so much, then passing your time in computer games and entertaining yourself might not be the best thing to do.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.01.31 12:17:00 - [83] All "chess" analogies are void because chess gameplay does not in any way compare with EVE gameplay. In chess, there is no equivalent to economy in eve, and there are no goods created within chess game, only destroyed. Maybe you can compare an EVE space battle with chess party, but the process of acquiring resources for such battle is not represented in chess game.
Cerwyn Taraman Minmatar Phoenix Tech Industries Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:23:00 - [84] Edited by: Cerwyn Taraman on 31/01/2007 13:20:54 Originally by: Tarkan Kador Originally by: Cerwyn Taraman Well I don't really like the GTC for isk issue, but the people doing it ARE paying for their subscription because somewhere, somehow, along the line of sales, CCP is getting paid for the Gametime card by whoever is reselling it for isk here, so it really doesnt matter WHO uses it as long as the GTC was bought and not stolen somehow. The only ones who are paying for their subscriptions are people like me, and we pay for it in terms of a compromised game. The guy who bought the GTCs some time ago doesn't pay for it, because he never took up any service resources today. Nor does the person who buys the GTCs for ISK pay for it, because they never paid revenue to maintain and expand the finite service resources today. The ones who pay for it are the ones who are running around looking for a research slot, fighting lag, and trying to get petitions answered. Because not only are they paying this month, for service this month, they have to put up with people running four and five extra accounts demanding equal service for each at the level of someone who paid this month, but pay nothing this month for the privilege. Whatever was sold or not sold from CCP's store over the last three years shouldn't impact my experience this month, but it is. Because I pay for a month of service this month, and if the reason I'm experiencing late petitions, or full research slots, or memory leaks this month is because the ones who aren't paying this month are demanding monthly service in excess, then I'm not getting the service I should expect this month. I think you missed my point. Let's say for example I pre-pay for EVE in 6-month increments. I pay like $12 USD / month instead of $15/month if I pay month-to-month. Now, I have "deprived" CCP of $6 * $3 = $18 so now i'm negatively affecting your gameplay somehow? I also don't pay them but 1x every 6 months, so because I paid them 5 months ago, I still play this month for no apparent charge. Yet, they still are required to provide me the same service. Do you really think all the GTC's were bought months and months ago? I suspect a ton of them are being bought every day to sell for this purpose. The point is, regardless of WHEN CCP got the money, at some point they DID get real MONEY in exchange for a time code. Now, just like a Gift Certificate, the value should not decrease until some expiration date usually years later. Just because you paid for something and don't use it immediately doesn't mean your right to service is any less valid. I'm playing devil's advocate here but I at least will not accuse GTC users of being owed less service from CCP then me, especially since they are paying MORE per month when you do the calculations than those of us who prepay in large chunks!
Removal Tool Flashman Services	Posted - 2007.01.31 13:52:00 - [85] The Chess analogy, or any other game without RMT, IS valid. It is a simple way to try to reach people that are too stupid or bereft of a sense of fair play. But then I never did understand why people would buy games and then use cheats to win it, thus cheating themselves
ChironV Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.31 15:56:00 - [86] Originally by: Removal Tool The Chess analogy, or any other game without RMT, IS valid. It is a simple way to try to reach people that are too stupid or bereft of a sense of fair play. But then I never did understand why people would buy games and then use cheats to win it, thus cheating themselves Bull. Lets say you're good at chess. I want to be good at it. You spend 10 hours a day to study and practice. I spend some money to have a chess master tutor me and help me improve for 4 hours a day. With your reasoning I have cheated because I didnt have to spend the exact same amount of time to become better at chess. Think of a better analogy. GTC for ISK serves a need. I would much prefer they kept it or improved it so the money goes wholly to CCP. I dont want to see the 3rd party ISK sellers rob more money from CCP's coffers. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
FuzzBuzz Caldari Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.31 16:12:00 - [87] Originally by: Tarkan Kador Originally by: FingerThief What ? In short: I pay good money each month to be here, and have to put up with problems caused by those who don't pay. Simple enough? foolish words did someone buy the gtc with real money?
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2007.01.31 16:14:00 - [88] An end to gtc sales would be a godsend. Best thing to happen to the game in a long time IMHO. Frankly I'd like to have people who buy/sell virtual goods shot on site and the cost of the bullet mailed to their families....but that's just me.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.31 16:31:00 - [89] Originally by: kieron It will be interesting to see the effect this policy enforcement (not change, it has been Ebay's policy for a very long time) will have on RMT vendors. Will it put all the RMT vendors out of business, or will this get rid of the 'Mom & Pop' RMT shops and push the buyers into doing business with the big sites? Probably somewhere in between. We can only do so much though. For RMT to completely stop, it will take the gaming community as a whole to stop purchasing items and currency for real cash. We will continue to do our part, enforce the EULA and deal with buyers and sellers as we find them. The MMOG community needs to do their part by not buying or selling in-game items, boycotting sites that sell items or RMT advertising, or link to those sites and simply take a stand. What the boss has said....Just think where did that 93.5 million trit come from? Dont buy from contracts or blind buy off the market. Instead hire a mining corp to get this for you, Probably save a couple of million in price.... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Live Eye	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:16:00 - [90] Edited by: Live Eye on 31/01/2007 17:25:35 First off, virtual goods is yet another moronic term. It's nothing but the selling of access to encoded flags. Second of all, how the hell could they tax this? You can advertize these however you want and when it comes to the sale you list it as "Barney Face Sticker, comes with a free 40m SP EVE character". There are no laws being broken here, only game policies so let the games deal with it and keep the law the f*ck out of it... Live Eye
Live Eye	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:20:00 - [91] Originally by: ChironV Originally by: Removal Tool The Chess analogy, or any other game without RMT, IS valid. It is a simple way to try to reach people that are too stupid or bereft of a sense of fair play. But then I never did understand why people would buy games and then use cheats to win it, thus cheating themselves Bull. Lets say you're good at chess. I want to be good at it. You spend 10 hours a day to study and practice. I spend some money to have a chess master tutor me and help me improve for 4 hours a day. With your reasoning I have cheated because I didnt have to spend the exact same amount of time to become better at chess. Think of a better analogy. GTC for ISK serves a need. I would much prefer they kept it or improved it so the money goes wholly to CCP. I dont want to see the 3rd party ISK sellers rob more money from CCP's coffers. Game cards for ISK is cheating, but it's allowed because CCP gets money. Exploits are not cheating because they are constructs that are in the game and allowed by the game itself to happen, yet they are cheats because CCP says so. There's no moral issue here, the point is if you want to be on the truth side of things or the rationalized side. You are on the rationalized side, deal with it... Live Eye
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:31:00 - [92] You could argue all day with the stupid people, but why bother? Nobody is going to take them seriously, least of all CCP. EVE was doing fine before GTC>ISK existed, it'll be doing fine after it's gone too. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.01.31 17:34:00 - [93] Just an FYI: It won't work. Example: For sale, EvE Collectors pen! You can write stuff with this pen. Buy now and get a free 99,023 SP Caldari character! WoW people are currently doing the same. Retired [ISSN] [Video] Skool of Harpy - Da Blarpy
ChironV Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:11:00 - [94] Originally by: Nero Scuro You could argue all day with the stupid people, but why bother? Nobody is going to take them seriously, least of all CCP. EVE was doing fine before GTC>ISK existed, it'll be doing fine after it's gone too. After its gone, (if its gone) it will certainly make traffic jams less severe as less financially well off players dump alt accounts they cant support. So much for topping 40k players online. Then again I'm sure CCP won't care about the additional cash flow they had as they are doing their payroll. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
ChironV Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:23:00 - [95] Originally by: Live Eye Originally by: ChironV Originally by: Removal Tool The Chess analogy, or any other game without RMT, IS valid. It is a simple way to try to reach people that are too stupid or bereft of a sense of fair play. But then I never did understand why people would buy games and then use cheats to win it, thus cheating themselves Bull. Lets say you're good at chess. I want to be good at it. You spend 10 hours a day to study and practice. I spend some money to have a chess master tutor me and help me improve for 4 hours a day. With your reasoning I have cheated because I didnt have to spend the exact same amount of time to become better at chess. Think of a better analogy. GTC for ISK serves a need. I would much prefer they kept it or improved it so the money goes wholly to CCP. I dont want to see the 3rd party ISK sellers rob more money from CCP's coffers. Game cards for ISK is cheating, but it's allowed because CCP gets money. Exploits are not cheating because they are constructs that are in the game and allowed by the game itself to happen, yet they are cheats because CCP says so. There's no moral issue here, the point is if you want to be on the truth side of things or the rationalized side. You are on the rationalized side, deal with it... Live Eye Once you get older you will understand there is no black or white only shades of grey. What it comes down to is, which do you prefer? CCP having excellent cash flow with money for development, new hardware, and customer support or CCP having a mediocre cash flow and being strapped for cash and thusly less money for development, hardware upgrades or customer support. Personally, I will support anything that keeps CCP in the black and having the bucks to look to develop the future. For the content you get this game is very underpriced. You get all this for under .69 cents a day. A bargain. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
KHEN Gallente New Horizons	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:31:00 - [96] Edited by: KHEN on 31/01/2007 18:28:42 Originally by: Nero Scuro You could argue all day with the stupid people, but why bother? Nobody is going to take them seriously, least of all CCP. EVE was doing fine before GTC>ISK existed, it'll be doing fine after it's gone too. Humanity was doing fine before EVE existed, it'll be doing fine after it's gone too. which such moronic reasonments you can write thousands of quotes. EVE is not hurt by the GTC sales for isks. One year after this been allowed, there are more accounts than ever, better server performance, new hardware and 34k people online at the same time. (it was 26k before GTC sales) the stupidity is to pretend that something is bad when it's healthy and give benefits. Your thoughts are pure theory and fanatic views. Open your eyes.
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:38:00 - [97] Originally by: KHEN Edited by: KHEN on 31/01/2007 18:28:42 Originally by: Nero Scuro You could argue all day with the stupid people, but why bother? Nobody is going to take them seriously, least of all CCP. EVE was doing fine before GTC>ISK existed, it'll be doing fine after it's gone too. Humanity was doing fine before EVE existed, it'll be doing fine after it's gone too. which such moronic reasonments you can write thousands of quotes. EVE is not hurt by the GTC sales for isks. One year after this been allowed, there are more accounts than ever, better server performance, new hardware and 34k people online at the same time. (it was 26k before GTC sales) the stupidity is to pretend that something is bad when it's healthy and give benefits. Your thoughts are pure theory and fanatic views. Open your eyes. Account numbers always rise, and do so at an exponential rate. Look at literally any MMO. They keep rising, the producing company do something stupid, in dies overnight. This has nothing to do with legalising GTC sales. Also, more people online doesn't make it a better game. By your 'logic' CCP should immediately turn EVE into WoW in space because WoW has millions of subscribers and so would EVE if it became a clone of WoW. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:39:00 - [98] Originally by: ChironV Originally by: Live Eye Originally by: ChironV Originally by: Removal Tool The Chess analogy, or any other game without RMT, IS valid. It is a simple way to try to reach people that are too stupid or bereft of a sense of fair play. But then I never did understand why people would buy games and then use cheats to win it, thus cheating themselves Bull. Lets say you're good at chess. I want to be good at it. You spend 10 hours a day to study and practice. I spend some money to have a chess master tutor me and help me improve for 4 hours a day. With your reasoning I have cheated because I didnt have to spend the exact same amount of time to become better at chess. Think of a better analogy. GTC for ISK serves a need. I would much prefer they kept it or improved it so the money goes wholly to CCP. I dont want to see the 3rd party ISK sellers rob more money from CCP's coffers. Game cards for ISK is cheating, but it's allowed because CCP gets money. Exploits are not cheating because they are constructs that are in the game and allowed by the game itself to happen, yet they are cheats because CCP says so. There's no moral issue here, the point is if you want to be on the truth side of things or the rationalized side. You are on the rationalized side, deal with it... Live Eye Once you get older you will understand there is no black or white only shades of grey. What it comes down to is, which do you prefer? CCP having excellent cash flow with money for development, new hardware, and customer support or CCP having a mediocre cash flow and being strapped for cash and thusly less money for development, hardware upgrades or customer support. Personally, I will support anything that keeps CCP in the black and having the bucks to look to develop the future. For the content you get this game is very underpriced. You get all this for under .69 cents a day. A bargain. Who cares if CCP have lots of money to make a game if it's a crap game they're making? I'd rather have the slightly poorer CCP plz. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
ChironV Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:52:00 - [99] Originally by: Nero Scuro Originally by: ChironV Originally by: Live Eye Originally by: ChironV Originally by: Removal Tool The Chess analogy, or any other game without RMT, IS valid. It is a simple way to try to reach people that are too stupid or bereft of a sense of fair play. But then I never did understand why people would buy games and then use cheats to win it, thus cheating themselves Bull. Lets say you're good at chess. I want to be good at it. You spend 10 hours a day to study and practice. I spend some money to have a chess master tutor me and help me improve for 4 hours a day. With your reasoning I have cheated because I didnt have to spend the exact same amount of time to become better at chess. Think of a better analogy. GTC for ISK serves a need. I would much prefer they kept it or improved it so the money goes wholly to CCP. I dont want to see the 3rd party ISK sellers rob more money from CCP's coffers. Game cards for ISK is cheating, but it's allowed because CCP gets money. Exploits are not cheating because they are constructs that are in the game and allowed by the game itself to happen, yet they are cheats because CCP says so. There's no moral issue here, the point is if you want to be on the truth side of things or the rationalized side. You are on the rationalized side, deal with it... Live Eye Once you get older you will understand there is no black or white only shades of grey. What it comes down to is, which do you prefer? CCP having excellent cash flow with money for development, new hardware, and customer support or CCP having a mediocre cash flow and being strapped for cash and thusly less money for development, hardware upgrades or customer support. Personally, I will support anything that keeps CCP in the black and having the bucks to look to develop the future. For the content you get this game is very underpriced. You get all this for under .69 cents a day. A bargain. Who cares if CCP have lots of money to make a game if it's a crap game they're making? I'd rather have the slightly poorer CCP plz. More money equals ability to hire the best programmers, graphic artists, and more money for R/D. I'd rather have a slightly richer CCP plz. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
Altaree Gallente Red Frog Investments Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:55:00 - [100] Can't someone at CCP contact ebay to get these auctions taken down as illegal auctions?
KHEN Gallente New Horizons	Posted - 2007.01.31 18:58:00 - [101] Originally by: Nero Scuro Originally by: KHEN Edited by: KHEN on 31/01/2007 18:28:42 Originally by: Nero Scuro You could argue all day with the stupid people, but why bother? Nobody is going to take them seriously, least of all CCP. EVE was doing fine before GTC>ISK existed, it'll be doing fine after it's gone too. Humanity was doing fine before EVE existed, it'll be doing fine after it's gone too. which such moronic reasonments you can write thousands of quotes. EVE is not hurt by the GTC sales for isks. One year after this been allowed, there are more accounts than ever, better server performance, new hardware and 34k people online at the same time. (it was 26k before GTC sales) the stupidity is to pretend that something is bad when it's healthy and give benefits. Your thoughts are pure theory and fanatic views. Open your eyes. Account numbers always rise, and do so at an exponential rate. Look at literally any MMO. They keep rising, the producing company do something stupid, in dies overnight. This has nothing to do with legalising GTC sales. Also, more people online doesn't make it a better game. By your 'logic' CCP should immediately turn EVE into WoW in space because WoW has millions of subscribers and so would EVE if it became a clone of WoW. Once more it's only theory from you. - You say that with no GTC <> Isks sales the number of accounts would have increased : by how many ? would it be more or less accounts than today ? Does that rules applies to all MMOs ? Where does this theory come from ? Many MMO are about to close because they don't have enough subscribers, watch something else than wow. - You say that GTC griefs EVE from being fair : that implies that players should have left the game if GTC sales had really bothered them : is this the case ? How many have left ? Could you find me some people who testimonied on forums that they were quiting due to the infamous GTC sales for isks - I say that EVE is more healthy than ever : once more the numbers proove that I'm right. (those are facts) - EVE is a growing but still small community, the more we are, the more this business is profitable for ccp, the more they want to make the game better : I hope they make huge profits and enjoy their life Besides this why so many people shout about GTC sales for isks and no one is against character trading which is highly unfair : the richiest players can purchase as many uber alts as they want and increase their influence (see the 'sell orders forums and watch those char which are sold for 10+ Bil : they aren't bought by nOObs, I've met these chars ingame and they were clearly alts of T2 tycoons) I see that you are a good forum *****, I expect you to answer point to point to my questions :)
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 19:23:00 - [102] Originally by: KHEN Once more it's only theory from you. - You say that with no GTC <> Isks sales the number of accounts would have increased : by how many ? would it be more or less accounts than today ? Does that rules applies to all MMOs ? Where does this theory come from ? Many MMO are about to close because they don't have enough subscribers, watch something else than wow. Who cares? I don't judge a games worth by how many people are playing it. If that were the case I'd be playing WoW. The number of subscribers don't make a game good, it's the quality of them. Originally by: KHEN - You say that GTC griefs EVE from being fair : that implies that players should have left the game if GTC sales had really bothered them : is this the case ? How many have left ? Could you find me some people who testimonied on forums that they were quiting due to the infamous GTC sales for isks I didn't say anybody quit because of it. Also, it IS unfair. If I turn up in a dread I purchased with real life cash and blew up your POS that you earned with entirely ingame with hardwork, how is that in any way fair? Originally by: KHEN - I say that EVE is more healthy than ever : once more the numbers proove that I'm right. (those are facts) No they aren't. SWG had massive subscriber amounts during and for a good while after the NGE. UO, ditto after trammel. Both were the deathtoll for their respective games. Subscriber amounts mean nothing. Originally by: KHEN - EVE is a growing but still small community, the more we are, the more this business is profitable for ccp, the more they want to make the game better : I hope they make huge profits and enjoy their life 'Better' is subjective. Some people think WoW is 'better' than EVE. And, to use my previous analogy, they'd think it would be 'better' for EVE to become WoW in space, and would back up this argument by saying subscriber numbers have increased since EVE became a WoW clone. Originally by: KHEN Besides this why so many people shout about GTC sales for isks and no one is against character trading which is highly unfair : the richiest players can purchase as many uber alts as they want and increase their influence (see the 'sell orders forums and watch those char which are sold for 10+ Bil : they aren't bought by nOObs, I've met these chars ingame and they were clearly alts of T2 tycoons) I'm against purchasing characters too, but at least you have to earn those characters ingame by hoarding ISK. Originally by: KHEN I see that you are a good forum ***, I expect you to answer point to point to my questions :) Done and pwned. Originally by:** ChironV More money equals ability to hire the best programmers, graphic artists, and more money for R/D. I'd rather have a slightly richer CCP plz. Blizzard have lots of money, they've hired the best programmers and graphics artists. Go play WoW. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
ChironV Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:03:00 - [103] Originally by: ChironV More money equals ability to hire the best programmers, graphic artists, and more money for R/D. I'd rather have a slightly richer CCP plz. Blizzard have lots of money, they've hired the best programmers and graphics artists. Go play WoW. So you dont want CCP to hire the best programmers and graphic artists? You dont care if they dont have the R/D money for Planetary additions, Walking in stations, or Tech 3, 4 and 5? As long as CCP doesn't make any additional revenue off of GTC - ISK you're a happy self-rightous camper? ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:35:00 - [104] Originally by: ChironV So you dont want CCP to hire the best programmers and graphic artists? You dont care if they dont have the R/D money for Planetary additions, Walking in stations, or Tech 3, 4 and 5? As long as CCP doesn't make any additional revenue off of GTC - ISK you're a happy self-rightous camper? Don't be so smug. What makes you think that if GTC>ISK went they wouldn't be able to afford that? What makes you think just because they have lots of cash they'd make an excellent game? Blizzard are rolling in money and they still make crap. CCP have had planetary interaction, techs 3 thru 5 and all the rest on the drawingboard for a loooong time, long before GTC>ISK ever came about. I have nothing against CCP making money but I do have a problem when it compromises the game. Who cares if they have the greatest programmers alive and could release planetary flight by the end of the week if the game was a pile of crap? ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
KHEN Gallente New Horizons	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:42:00 - [105] Edited by: KHEN on 31/01/2007 20:40:32 Originally by: Nero Scuro Who cares? I don't judge a games worth by how many people are playing it. If that were the case I'd be playing WoW. The number of subscribers don't make a game good, it's the quality of them. You are wrong : The game developper cares, if the people stick to the game, then the game is good. Otherwise people would leave. And saying that wow is bad is wrong : you don't like it, but it's popular and millions of peeps thinks it's the best MMO. Vox Populi, Vos Dei. CCP doesn't care about the quality of their players, they just want enough subscribers to make their job profitable. Originally by: Nero Scuro I didn't say anybody quit because of it. Also, it IS unfair. If I turn up in a dread I purchased with real life cash and blew up your POS that you earned with entirely ingame with hardwork, how is that in any way fair? You are wrong : people don't care about where does the power come from, because they can't know. Please link me one person to who it occured and who whined about it into the forums. EVE is unfair, for many reasons, but people like it as this and stick to it because of that. It's precisely because EVE is highly unfair at all stages that GTC sales can't and don't hurt it. And when I play EVE , I'm playing, not hardworking. Work takes place only in real life. Originally by: Nero Scuro No they aren't. SWG had massive subscriber amounts during and for a good while after the NGE. UO, ditto after trammel. Both were the deathtoll for their respective games. Subscriber amounts mean nothing. Out of topic : SWG have its very own problems : bugs, lack of contents, too much equity between players (yeah it's too much fair), to long development. Once more GTC sales are here since one year, and the number of subscribers continues to increase. No deathtoll, no one or very few left because of GTCs (or gimme evidence if I'm wrong) Originally by: Nero Scuro 'Better' is subjective. Some people think WoW is 'better' than EVE. And, to use my previous analogy, they'd think it would be 'better' for EVE to become WoW in space, and would back up this argument by saying subscriber numbers have increased since EVE became a WoW clone. Once more out of topic : Wow is WoW, Eve is Eve. Do you compare a Bugatti to a Fiat ? Originally by: Nero Scuro I'm against purchasing characters too, but at least you have to earn those characters ingame by hoarding ISK. yeah but it's unfair for those who can't earn isks for various reasons : all players aren't billionaries, and most will never be. Originally by: Nero Scuro Done and pwned. You don't answer questions but use a lot of wicked analogies in the hope to proove that you are uber smart and that you know everything (see you banner... hum). But you are blind to the facts, you have consideration only for your flawed theories which are far far away from the reality of things. I bet with you one dread of your choice that CCP won't remove GTC sales before July, 4th. I hope that you will accept that bet otherwise that would only show that you suddenly realized how wrong you are regards
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:43:00 - [106] The problem, nero, is that if ccp would stop allowing tc's for isk we'd simply have people return to buying isk at IGE. Noone could profit from the gametime then, CCP would be out of a bunch of subscribers and there'd be alot more farmers again as turnover in the grey isk circuit goes up again. How is that better ? It's not like there'll be much less isk bought then, you just won't see it other then through an increase in farmers and a decrease in CCP turnover. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 20:59:00 - [107] Ebay is known for arbitrary descisions of this nature. They censor the bands avaliable, they've banned people from being able to sell their own music on Ebay before ffs. The people who benefit are the REAL villians of the piece, IGE and Yantis. Their underhand methods cost MMO companies far more than Ebay trading ever has. And no, it's NOT enforcement - it's selective morality. They're allowing second life auctions, and banning ultima online ones despite UO allowing RMT. You can't stop RMT any more than you can stop recreational drug use, and stringent measures to do so - just like the war on drugs, hurts everyone in the longer term. Neo-prohibition simply isn't working. I hope CCP are doing something smarter. Eilene Fernite, selling ISK directly is inflationary and thus plain bad for the game in a way simply shuffling ISK between the players is not. Tarkan Kador, amusing. CCP gets paid either way. So there is zero bottom-line impact from people paying with GTC's. They are paying. Just because they are using a different payment than you does not make you morally superior. Nero Scuro, given Eve is the classic slow-burn business model, no it is not "exponential". Your lack of basic understanding of how Eve has gained subscribers is showing, I'm afraid. And yes, I'm sure you hate CCP. I don't. I'm sure you'll be ranting about the unfairness of player skill soon... Rod's right. //Maya
Cassiuss Minmatar STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:02:00 - [108] A quote from a wise friend of mine. Quote: Simply, there will always be people trading virtual stuff for RL stuff. You're not going to get rid of that any more than all the crusading will get rid of prostitution. Men will always want to exchange money for sex. People with spare money will always want to exchange it for an in-game advantage. GTC for ISK is like legalising drugs. I personally think it's a good thing (to both). If you simply outlaw something, you force it to go underground where the bad people will start to abuse the gullible and uninformed. If you legislate the sale of it, you gain an element of control over it and you provide a layer of protection for those same poor saps. I believe it would be unwise for CCP to back out of ISK for GTC at this stage. It's like closing an injecting room. All you're doing is forcing people back into the dark alleys with recycled needles. Personally, I think its makes CCP/EvE distinct from other mmo's. Keep up the good work CCP, better you than someone else. There will always be someone else. I am confident you will make the correct decision. /Cass Cassiuss, STK-S Recruitment Officer
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:05:00 - [109] Originally by: KHEN You are wrong : The game developper cares, if the people stick to the game, then the game is good. Otherwise people would leave. And saying that wow is bad is wrong : you don't like it, but it's popular and millions of peeps thinks it's the best MMO. Vox Populi, Vos Dei. CCP doesn't care about the quality of their players, they just want enough subscribers to make their job profitable. So what you're saying is... CCP have sold out? It is, isn't it. CCP want to be profitable. Doesn't matter if they cheapen their own game or contradict themselves. Originally by: KHEN You are wrong : people don't care about where does the power come from, because they can't know. Please link me one person to who it occured and who whined about it into the forums. EVE is unfair, for many reasons, but people like it as this and stick to it because of that. It's precisely because EVE is highly unfair at all stages that GTC sales can't and don't hurt it. And when I play EVE , I'm playing, not hardworking. Work takes place only in real life. WHAT!? So if people don't KNOW that someones capital fleet was bought off ebay then it can't hurt them!? I'm sending you my doctors bill for damaging my brain with that. Originally by: KHEN Out of topic : SWG have its very own problems : bugs, lack of contents, too much equity between players (yeah it's too much fair), to long development. Once more GTC sales are here since one year, and the number of subscribers continues to increase. No deathtoll, no one or very few left because of GTCs (or gimme evidence if I'm wrong) SWG is dead if you hadn't noticed. It has been for a year or two, since NGE. Saying it's buggy and lacking in content now is obvious - SOE are hardly going to pump cash into a dead project. Also - 'it's too much fair'? 'here since one year'? WTF? Stop maiming the language, illiterate. Originally by: KHEN Once more out of topic : Wow is WoW, Eve is Eve. Do you compare a Bugatti to a Fiat ? I don't think they're alike. And they shouldn't be, that's my point. Originally by: KHEN yeah but it's unfair for those who can't earn isks for various reasons : all players aren't billionaries, and most will never be. I'm not a billionaire ingame either, but that doesn't bother me. Those players put the time and effort in. They deserve the ISK. You wouldn't complain in a game of tennis because your opponent was better than you because he practiced more, would you? No, no bull** "oh but he has no life/job/etc so he has more time to play/practice than me, so it's ok if I cheat and but extra 'points'" would hang there. Originally by:** KHEN You don't answer questions but use a lot of wicked analogies in the hope to proove that you are uber smart and that you know everything (see you banner... hum). But you are blind to the facts, you have consideration only for your flawed theories which are far far away from the reality of things. I bet with you one dread of your choice that CCP won't remove GTC sales before July, 4th. I hope that you will accept that bet otherwise that would only show that you suddenly realized how wrong you are regards What do my opinions and what CCP do have ANYTHING to do with one another!? I think they should ban GTC>ISK, I didn't say they would. They've made stupid decisions before, they will continue to do so IMO. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:10:00 - [110] Originally by: Rod Blaine The problem, nero, is that if ccp would stop allowing tc's for isk we'd simply have people return to buying isk at IGE. Noone could profit from the gametime then, CCP would be out of a bunch of subscribers and there'd be alot more farmers again as turnover in the grey isk circuit goes up again. How is that better ? It's not like there'll be much less isk bought then, you just won't see it other then through an increase in farmers and a decrease in CCP turnover. CCP will never ban all the macrominers either. Suppose they should just give up and let them be too? Just because you can't completely stamp something out doesn't mean you should just go 'meh, whatever, go nuts'. Buying ISK for cash is wrong, it screws up game balance and it hurts the game in the long run. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:14:00 - [111] Gratz, there does the player skill rant. And once you've reported the macrominers, going off on rants against them is going to lead to harrass some legitimate players. There is a lesson to learn there. Jusr because you think neo-prohibition works dosn't mean that people should not actually look at what happens and realise that it simply drives people to the really shady operators rather than clearing up the actual issues. //Maya
ChironV Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:36:00 - [112] Originally by: Nero Scuro Originally by: ChironV So you dont want CCP to hire the best programmers and graphic artists? You dont care if they dont have the R/D money for Planetary additions, Walking in stations, or Tech 3, 4 and 5? As long as CCP doesn't make any additional revenue off of GTC - ISK you're a happy self-rightous camper? Don't be so smug. What makes you think that if GTC>ISK went they wouldn't be able to afford that? What makes you think just because they have lots of cash they'd make an excellent game? Blizzard are rolling in money and they still make crap. CCP have had planetary interaction, techs 3 thru 5 and all the rest on the drawingboard for a loooong time, long before GTC>ISK ever came about. I have nothing against CCP making money but I do have a problem when it compromises the game. Who cares if they have the greatest programmers alive and could release planetary flight by the end of the week if the game was a pile of crap? Fine, I won't be smug if you don't act like a sarcastic snot. "Go play WOW." Having "lots of cash" is a positive thing. It gives them the opportunity to stretch out and try new things in the game. Could be great, could suck, thats not a result of money, just a result of bad decisions. Just how would it compromise the game? Elaborate. If you have money and tons of time, good for you. What about those who have time but not lots of money and those who have lots of money but little time? Screw 'em? Its good for you if you have time and money because its to your advantage. If CCP can regulate and manage the GTC>ISK, keep it ingame and IGE out then I'm all for it. Money and brilliant programmers do not make a game. I agree. Money, brilliant programmers and a well thought out innovative concept can make a great game, like EVE. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:53:00 - [113] Originally by: Maya Rkell Gratz, there does the player skill rant. And once you've reported the macrominers, going off on rants against them is going to lead to harrass some legitimate players. There is a lesson to learn there. Jusr because you think neo-prohibition works dosn't mean that people should not actually look at what happens and realise that it simply drives people to the really shady operators rather than clearing up the actual issues. I thought you'd left. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:54:00 - [114] Nah, I'm just arround less :P Sitting arround bored waiting for things to break. Or not, so I can go hooome... //Maya
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 21:55:00 - [115] Originally by: ChironV Having "lots of cash" is a positive thing. It gives them the opportunity to stretch out and try new things in the game. Could be great, could suck, thats not a result of money, just a result of bad decisions. And what if the means by which you make lots of cash is a bad decision? CCP could make boatloads of cash right now if they wanted to, by selling out and turning the game into instant gratification grindfest crap. Who cares if they can stretch out and try new things if the stuff they've got is rubbish? Originally by: ChironV Just how would it compromise the game? Elaborate. Cash for ingame money works in many games because you can't negatively affect another player, at least not without their consent. In EVE you can. Take the example of that alliance - they said if they began to run out of ISK they'd just buy more. So I could work hard ingame, purchase a chain of POS and a capital fleet and whatnot to defend my space, then that alliance comes along. We duke it out and damage one another heavily. While I'm working hard to regain my strength, they return with their entire fleet back intact thanks to purchasing it off ebay, and destroy me and all the time and effort I put into the game and gain the entire region. And nothing about that seems wrong to you? Originally by: ChironV If you have money and tons of time, good for you. What about those who have time but not lots of money and those who have lots of money but little time? Screw 'em? Its good for you if you have time and money because its to your advantage. For a start, half your argument goes instantly down the tube there. Anybody can afford 3 quid a week for an account. That's literally nothing. Even kids can afford that. I spend more money per day on bus fare. And EVE is a hobby. It takes time. If you don't have time then NO, you can't play as well as someone who spends 4 hours a day playing. That's just obvious, and is the same as in any hobby. Originally by: ChironV If CCP can regulate and manage the GTC>ISK, keep it ingame and IGE out then I'm all for it. Money and brilliant programmers do not make a game. I agree. Money, brilliant programmers and a well thought out innovative concept can make a great game, like EVE. And buying your way into the game with your wallet is not an innovative concept. I'm not having everything I've worked hard for ingame trashed because my opponent is a stockbroker in real life and likes to fling his money about. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 22:02:00 - [116] Nero Scuro, not everyone has a credit card. Universal coverage of cards is, in Europe, rare outside England. CCP's refusal to take debit cards means even a lot of people in the UK can't pay their subscriptions directly. You really need to research this before you sound off. If you can't leaverage your experience in-game, that's your issue. Stop blaming gametime codes for your skill woes. //Maya
KHEN Gallente New Horizons	Posted - 2007.01.31 22:28:00 - [117] Edited by: KHEN on 31/01/2007 22:33:14 Edited by: KHEN on 31/01/2007 22:28:22 Originally by: Nero Scuro WHAT!? So if people don't KNOW that someones capital fleet was bought off ebay then it can't hurt them!? I'm sending you my doctors bill for damaging my brain with that. Lol I didn't say it don't hurt, I just said they had no way to know it's been bought with cash. But would/could it really hurt more to know ? Originally by: Nero Scuro SWG is dead if you hadn't noticed. It has been for a year or two, since NGE. Saying it's buggy and lacking in content now is obvious - SOE are hardly going to pump cash into a dead project. Didn't I said that it was out of topic ? By the way SWG is still running afaik... Originally by: Nero Scuro Also - 'it's too much fair'? 'here since one year'? WTF? Stop maiming the language, illiterate. Well English is not my native language and even if I do my best to be understandable, its far to be perfect. Another evidence of how narrow minded you are, because someone is not as fluent as you are in a foreign language, then he's stupid ! For You who are so worried about fairness, it's a pityfull act to try to take an advantage from linguistics ok "fair enough" and "here for one year", thank's Harrap's :) happy now ? Originally by: Nero Scuro I don't think they're alike. And they shouldn't be, that's my point. ok Originally by: Nero Scuro I'm not a billionaire ingame either, but that doesn't bother me. Those players put the time and effort in. They deserve the ISK. Your very own opinion is that They deserve their isks. IMO Those who work hard IRL to feed their family and don't have time to put in EVE deserve the right to purchase GTC then to sell these for isks to enjoy the best MMO from my pov. It's fair'Till now, you have not given any evidence that it hurted someone once or EVE globally. Originally by: Nero Scuro You wouldn't complain in a game of tennis because your opponent was better than you because he practiced more, would you? No, no bull** "oh but he has no life/job/etc so he has more time to play/practice than me, so it's ok if I cheat and but extra 'points'" would hang there. Another lame analogy, still no facts Originally by:** Nero Scuro What do my opinions and what CCP do have ANYTHING to do with one another!? I think they should ban GTC>ISK, I didn't say they would. They've made stupid decisions before, they will continue to do so IMO. Yeah I think anyone see it's just your own opinions and not the reality of the facts. I am illiterate but I have a scientific formation. Then my opinions are not just simply from brain masturbating but from facts, from what happens, what exists, how things are, because I need to observe things to understand them. Anyway it's been nice talking with you, I know you better, and I'll spare time not reading you in the future, because the content is so poor that I don't subscribe to that game anymore. regards
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 22:50:00 - [118] Originally by: KHEN Lol I didn't say it don't hurt, I just said they had no way to know it's been bought with cash. But would/could it really hurt more to know ? Who cares if they know or not? The damage is still done. Originally by: KHEN Didn't I said that it was out of topic ? By the way SWG is still running afaik... SWG is dead on its feet. Also, using another MMO for the purpose of analogy is NOT off topic. Originally by: KHEN Well English is not my native language and even if I do my best to be understandable, its far to be perfect. Another evidence of how narrow minded you are, because someone is not as fluent as you are in a foreign language, then he's stupid ! For You who are so worried about fairness, it's a pityfull act to try to take an advantage from linguistics This is an english forum. If you can't speak the language, that's noteworthy IMO. Originally by: KHEN Your very own opinion is that They deserve their isks. IMO Those who work hard IRL to feed their family and don't have time to put in EVE deserve the right to purchase GTC then to sell these for isks to enjoy the best MMO from my pov. It's fair'Till now, you have not given any evidence that it hurted someone once or EVE globally. What about people who will use their purchased ships to go dominate the map/blow other people's stuff up/etc unfairly? And I don't NEED to give evidence. That's just obvious. PvPers will use their purchased goods to attack other PvPers. What else are they going to do with it? Mine? EVE is a PvP based game, the devs have said so on multiple occasions. Originally by: KHEN Yeah I think anyone see it's just your own opinions and not the reality of the facts. I am illiterate but I have a scientific formation. Then my opinions are not just simply from brain masturbating but from facts, from what happens, what exists, how things are, because I need to observe things to understand them. Anyway it's been nice talking with you, I know you better, and I'll spare time not reading you in the future, because the content is so poor that I don't subscribe to that game anymore. regards No, what you've posted is opinion too, it isn't fact. Saying so won't make it so. There's nothing scientific about going 'zomg i wants to buy stuff ingame cuz i iz lazy so stfu lol?' Nice of you to admit defeat though. I won't miss your stupid responses for sure. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 22:50:00 - [119] Originally by: KHEN Lol I didn't say it don't hurt, I just said they had no way to know it's been bought with cash. But would/could it really hurt more to know ? Who cares if they know or not? The damage is still done. Originally by: KHEN Didn't I said that it was out of topic ? By the way SWG is still running afaik... SWG is dead on its feet. Also, using another MMO for the purpose of analogy is NOT off topic. Originally by: KHEN Well English is not my native language and even if I do my best to be understandable, its far to be perfect. Another evidence of how narrow minded you are, because someone is not as fluent as you are in a foreign language, then he's stupid ! For You who are so worried about fairness, it's a pityfull act to try to take an advantage from linguistics This is an english forum. If you can't speak the language, that's noteworthy IMO. Originally by: KHEN Your very own opinion is that They deserve their isks. IMO Those who work hard IRL to feed their family and don't have time to put in EVE deserve the right to purchase GTC then to sell these for isks to enjoy the best MMO from my pov. It's fair'Till now, you have not given any evidence that it hurted someone once or EVE globally. What about people who will use their purchased ships to go dominate the map/blow other people's stuff up/etc unfairly? And I don't NEED to give evidence. That's just obvious. PvPers will use their purchased goods to attack other PvPers. What else are they going to do with it? Mine? EVE is a PvP based game, the devs have said so on multiple occasions. Originally by: KHEN Yeah I think anyone see it's just your own opinions and not the reality of the facts. I am illiterate but I have a scientific formation. Then my opinions are not just simply from brain masturbating but from facts, from what happens, what exists, how things are, because I need to observe things to understand them. Anyway it's been nice talking with you, I know you better, and I'll spare time not reading you in the future, because the content is so poor that I don't subscribe to that game anymore. regards No, what you've posted is opinion too, it isn't fact. Saying so won't make it so. There's nothing scientific about going 'zomg i wants to buy stuff ingame cuz i iz lazy so stfu lol?' Nice of you to admit defeat though. I won't miss your stupid responses for sure. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
ChironV Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.31 23:18:00 - [120] Originally by: Nero Scuro And what if the means by which you make lots of cash is a bad decision? CCP could make boatloads of cash right now if they wanted to, by selling out and turning the game into instant gratification grindfest crap. Who cares if they can stretch out and try new things if the stuff they've got is rubbish? But they aren't. You act as if they have no control over it. They do and are doing their best right now to figure out what to do. They may remove GTC>ISK due to rampant scamming or they may put in a way to do GTC>ISK which is protected and regulated. If they can figure out a way to make it easy for users to do but limit it to certain amounts per month then they will have an additional revenue stream without hurting the game. Originally by: Nero Scuro Cash for ingame money works in many games because you can't negatively affect another player, at least not without their consent. In EVE you can. Take the example of that alliance - they said if they began to run out of ISK they'd just buy more. So I could work hard ingame, purchase a chain of POS and a capital fleet and whatnot to defend my space, then that alliance comes along. We duke it out and damage one another heavily. While I'm working hard to regain my strength, they return with their entire fleet back intact thanks to purchasing it off ebay, and destroy me and all the time and effort I put into the game and gain the entire region. And nothing about that seems wrong to you? Currently 90 day cards are going for about 350 million isk. So lets say to raise a fleet you would need what, 5 bill to get a fleet going of battleships with T2 fittings. Thats about 14 or so GTC at $38.00 a pop for a total of $532.00. Thats a chunk of coin, and fairly improbable. Sure an alliance could swing it if they got some of the more well off players to do it. Then again, the market would be soon glutted with GTC>ISK sales, driving the isk price down. Soon enough there would be no worth to sell the cards to isk because they wouldnt be worth an isk. Your reasoning is one extreme. I prefer to think CCP would step in and regulate it before something that extreme occured. Originally by: ChironV If you have money and tons of time, good for you. What about those who have time but not lots of money and those who have lots of money but little time? Screw 'em? Its good for you if you have time and money because its to your advantage. Originally by: Nero Scuro For a start, half your argument goes instantly down the tube there. Anybody can afford 3 quid a week for an account. That's literally nothing. Even kids can afford that. I spend more money per day on bus fare. And EVE is a hobby. It takes time. If you don't have time then NO, you can't play as well as someone who spends 4 hours a day playing. That's just obvious, and is the same as in any hobby. True. But what if you don't have a credit card and your mum or father don't like shelling out for game cards? What if the reseller of Eve game cards in your area runs out? Give up? Quit? In sum you are saying, "If you don't have the cash, log off." I dont think thats 100% fair. If they can sell some isk for time when they need it, I think thats a decent solution for cash strapped (or no creditcard) users. Yup it is a hobby. But again your reasoning boils down to "Don't have the time to play as much as me, then log off, because you can't compete." ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 23:36:00 - [121] Originally by: ChironV But they aren't. You act as if they have no control over it. They do and are doing their best right now to figure out what to do. They may remove GTC>ISK due to rampant scamming or they may put in a way to do GTC>ISK which is protected and regulated. If they can figure out a way to make it easy for users to do but limit it to certain amounts per month then they will have an additional revenue stream without hurting the game. And if they regulate it or nerf it in some way, good. But I'd still rather see it gone all together. Remember, I'm saying what I hope and want to happen, not what I think will actually happen. Originally by: ChironV Currently 90 day cards are going for about 350 million isk. So lets say to raise a fleet you would need what, 5 bill to get a fleet going of battleships with T2 fittings. Thats about 14 or so GTC at $38.00 a pop for a total of $532.00. Thats a chunk of coin, and fairly improbable. Sure an alliance could swing it if they got some of the more well off players to do it. Then again, the market would be soon glutted with GTC>ISK sales, driving the isk price down. Soon enough there would be no worth to sell the cards to isk because they wouldnt be worth an isk. Your reasoning is one extreme. I prefer to think CCP would step in and regulate it before something that extreme occured. I would agree that it's extreme, but even now there are people saying that alliance's are saying just this - a tactic whereby if they get smacked down hard they can just quickly buy their way back up to a counter-attack. Originally by: ChironV True. But what if you don't have a credit card and your mum or father don't like shelling out for game cards? What if the reseller of Eve game cards in your area runs out? Give up? Quit? In sum you are saying, "If you don't have the cash, log off." I dont think thats 100% fair. If they can sell some isk for time when they need it, I think thats a decent solution for cash strapped (or no creditcard) users. I have a credit card, but don't use it for eve (it's reserved for important things). I pay using paypoints. I'm not sure about other countries but they're rampant in the UK. Literally everywhere. You print off a payment sheet from the pay-by-cash website and take it to any store with a paypoint symbol outside. Quick and easy. No excuses for those without credit cards, especially since pay-by-cash has about 20 other payment options too if you don't get paypoint in your country. And as I've already said, EVE is dirt-cheap. Anyone who can afford the internet can afford EVE. Simple as. Originally by: ChironV Yup it is a hobby. But again your reasoning boils down to "Don't have the time to play as much as me, then log off, because you can't compete." You can compete, you just can't expect to do as good a job. That's just obvious, and isn't an excuse to buy your way into the game, especially since GTC>ISK isn't reserved for those with little time to play the game. EVE is a game about consequence. It's not your standard MMO. Doing almost literally anything in EVE will affect the other players. You can't claim sanctuary just because you find the game a bit hard at times. Or to use your reasoning, if I have no cash to buy ISK and no time to play, I should get free ISK right? It's only fair on me, not my fault if I'm broke and have no time to play as fanatically as you. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
ChironV Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.31 23:40:00 - [122] Originally by: Nero Scuro And buying your way into the game with your wallet is not an innovative concept. I'm not having everything I've worked hard for ingame trashed because my opponent is a stockbroker in real life and likes to fling his money about. Well thats the admission I was waiting for. Your objections have little to do with CCP getting the revenue's which are bleeding out to 3rd party isk'ers and more to do with YOU. You are afraid that your tactical advantage will dissapear. Your advantage is time. You have alot of time to sit playing Eve, and you feel that your "game time earnings" should not be compromised. Funny, but if you look at it right, having tons of time to play eve is a "cheat" as well. Its an unfair advantage to those who have a RL. We could solve this problem simply and for everyone. Limit the logon time to 2 hours daily. No transfering of GTC's. Buy isk, get hit with the Banstick. No transfering of characters. Ta-Da!! everyone equal! Only the best and most organized players would succeed. ..... How about we just drop the discussion and see what CCP floats down the bowl to us. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.31 23:43:00 - [123] "they're rampant in the UK. Literally everywhere" Where? Never seen a single one. Pay-by-cash is quite litteraly blocked by my bank, and other UK ones, because of its poor record. And there is no reason to pay 20-25% extra because you don't happen to have the right super sekrit magic card. Mastro STILL isn't supported, ffs. Your assumption that Eve can be paid for in the same way as internet access is just that. I don't see the first party direct debit options, myself. "That's just obvious" Only if you make the base assumption that player skill should count for nothing and time invested everything. And no, people with lots of time and little cash can sell to people with little time and lots of cash. Both get what they want. Gee, sounds like it gasp works. Trying to claim unique snowflake status, heh. He didn't reason that. Only if you're again using your time invested > all assumption can that be true. And some of us think player skill should actually count. I'm..no, I'm not sorry you can't compete. Time invested is not a magic bullet, and that's GOOD. //Maya
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.31 23:50:00 - [124] Originally by: ChironV Originally by: Nero Scuro And buying your way into the game with your wallet is not an innovative concept. I'm not having everything I've worked hard for ingame trashed because my opponent is a stockbroker in real life and likes to fling his money about. Well thats the admission I was waiting for. Your objections have little to do with CCP getting the revenue's which are bleeding out to 3rd party isk'ers and more to do with YOU. You are afraid that your tactical advantage will dissapear. Your advantage is time. You have alot of time to sit playing Eve, and you feel that your "game time earnings" should not be compromised. Funny, but if you look at it right, having tons of time to play eve is a "cheat" as well. Its an unfair advantage to those who have a RL. I was talking in general. I don't own anything in EVE worth blowing up. About 100mil in assets, and 70 mil of that is a covert ops cloak. I was just talking for all those players who DO own chains of POS and whatnot. So no, I wasn't thinking about myself. And I don't play eve that much anyway. 90% of my time online is just chatting in channels, so I wouldn't be losing any supposed 'time advantage'. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.31 23:54:00 - [125] profits from GTC go into the game and profits as CCP have stated atm are mostly going back into the game via extra hardware devs and even the white wolf merger unlike the biggest one in the MMO market its ploughed back into the game
Vicarias T Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.01 00:43:00 - [126] Wasn't this thread originally about Ebay and selling virtual items?? If you check that site you will see it has happened. Now if we can shoot the macro mining isk farmers, it will be the players game again!
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.01 00:49:00 - [127] So now Yantis has a market advantage for his tactics, it's a win for Eve? Heh. He's a hundred times the threat Ebay was. One of his standard tactics, for example, is to get corp leaders to sell him the corp wallet. And abuse exploits on a massive scale, and and. Funny, I'd of thought you'd of disliked that over a few individual sales on Ebay. (Further, there is zero proof from the games which have allways had auctions pulled off ebay that it does ANYTHING to reduce RMT volume - the number of people banned for RMT stays steady). All neo-prohibition serves is to annoy people. //Maya
Yggdrassil Amarrian Missionaires	Posted - 2007.02.01 01:13:00 - [128] The big, difficult thing to do, is somehow to find a way where ppl can sell gtc for isk, but has no way to transform the isk to $. With ebay stopping the sale of ingame items, we're half way there. Now, if CCP somehow could make a system where you could put up gtc for sale through the account system... They could directly check that the gtc is good / no fake. Seller states his price in ISK and wait for a buyer. Then, allow ppl to buy gtc through account system, simply by selecting what kind of gtc, and what price in isk he wants to pay. Every downtime, you match the buy/sell orders, and transfer isk to/from players, and directly update the billing info. Might be a bit work to code, but... they would save themselves a lot of petitions in the long run - since scammers can't find any workarounds to that system (at least no way I can see) Yggdrassil
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.01 01:18:00 - [129] Yggdrassil, Ebay was one market. There are other auction sites. There are other FAR less savourary sites. For there to be "progress", you'd have to change the fundermental nature of Humans. This is a step back. //Maya
Yggdrassil Amarrian Missionaires	Posted - 2007.02.01 01:22:00 - [130] lol - saw this when I googled for isk selling sites - and just had to share: Quote: An earthquake which has struck the Asia Pacific Region has severely disrupted our service levels. We apologize for any delay and inconvenience this has caused. " Yggdrassil
Yggdrassil Amarrian Missionaires	Posted - 2007.02.01 01:35:00 - [131] I still don't get why ppl would want to buy isk from one of these sites. If you sell a GTC that costs... 39$, you get around 350 million. That equals around 120$ per billion isk. Buying from the shady web sites seems to cost you around.... 120$ for 1 billion isk. Now... wtf would anyone buy them from those sites??? Price is almost identical. Selling gtc yourself is legal - so you don't risk having the isk pulled out of your wallet, while paying the same on one of those sites makes you face the risk of simply loosing your $'s. I just don't get it.... Yggdrassil
DJ Static	Posted - 2007.02.01 10:33:00 - [132] Edited by: DJ Static on 01/02/2007 10:30:43 Originally by: pass lake I suspect that noobs are buying isk on ebay, so removing this source of isk should be deflationary for lower priced ships/equipment that noobs would be buying. Less money chasing the same number of goods should make the items increase in price. Of course there are lots of variables. This assumes noobs buy low priced stuff and manufacturing output stays the same. Errrr.... not so much. Assuming there is less money chasing the same ammount of goods. 1. Consumers have less means to buy said items 2. There becomes a surplus of the items 3. Firms producing said items bid the price of the item down in an effort to sell. 4. After the price is bid low enough, there will be enough consumers with the means to buy the item and eliminate the surplus. 5. Equlibrium. Yes, I DID just get out of Economics 202
Michael Clark	Posted - 2007.02.06 18:16:00 - [133] Ok, I do not agree on using ISK to buy GTCs. I do not use a CC or a bank card to pay for my account. I drive down to 7-11 buy a prepaid $25.00 Visa gift card and wow, my accounts paid for for anthor month. No idea if they have this in Europe. So, theres an idea for those who have no CC or Bank card. MC
nossler	Posted - 2007.02.09 06:28:00 - [134] I having a feeling that this is gonna end up hurting the game, like it or not those macro miners paid a monthly subscription to ccp. Thats real $'s outta ccp's wallet. I personally don't care, I play the game to have fun. I drive long haul truck across the states and Canada I can't always get online, so my game time is low. I have sold GTC's for isk because of the fact I can't sit for hours at a time mining, I would rather watch paint dry, but thats me. I understand from a pure gamers point that the Ebayers represent an easy way out, as oppossed to ratting/mining/trading or what ever. I just don't have that time, but I like the game and the people I play with. So because I can't play all the time I shouldn't have a way that works with my real life? Who do I hurt? The builders? Don't think so I am purchasing from them. The miners? The builder buys from them. The PvP'rs? They get to fight me or any of the numerous others like me. Maybe it's the traders? Nope they are either selling to one of us and I mean all of us, or an NPC. Now yes I have noticed a few price jumps IE: T2 launchers name one its gone up close to 100% but like in real world economics the price is only what the market can bare. Don't get all "this isn't real life" Think back to all the diccusions about missles and how "unfair" they are, can't have it one way then another. I don't want to play the game like that, I wish I could sit infront of my laptop and mine or rat, but my life just doesn't allow that. Do what you must CCP it is your game and your rules. I would still play just wouldnt have as much fun Just think about what it is you are actually discussing here guys and gals. Who cares if joe sold dave something from this or any other game for real world money. Dave has money to burn, let him. It all ends up back in the game one way or the other. Remember that Vegas saying, "The house always wins!" and ccp is the house!!! Anyways thats my take on it I'm just a guy trying to get his nut in this crazy world we call EVE. Fly Safe and keep the pirates cursing your name.

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