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Bella Jennie
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
27
   |
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:08:46 -
[1231] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:Currently BUMPING in order to gank in HISEC does NOT invoke the Crimewatch mechanic...
- that is EXACTLY what I hope gets fixed. I think if you look back through the whole thread; and the history of previous threads, that a lot of us that seem to be stoic opponents; aren't opposed to change at all. We would just like some solid evidence to show that a change is required. However, that aside; lets assume for a second that the evidence is convincing. Those of us that don't see a need for change also fly Freighters and the easy solution now is to just use webbing support. That reduces the risk of being ganked to at most 0.1% (but lower in reality) based on data currently available from Red Frog Freight (and more data coming in the next couple of weeks that will either confirm the RFF data or show a different pattern). So if the risk is less than 0.1% currently, how would you change the game to get it to an acceptable level of risk for you?
here's the thing... and it's not even so much about more safety (although who would NOT want to be safer?)
It's about getting to act like a jerk with impunity..
why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
|
Paranoid Loyd
8396
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:10:06 -
[1232] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:I did NOT know what I was talking about and I apologize Fair enough, now you think maybe you might not understand enough about the meta game and maybe just maybe y'all should stop asking for bumping to be "fixed"? Gankers are more than capable of performing freighter ganks without bumping, if you guys do somehow manage to formulate a good enough argument to get the mechanic changed, the result will be that is is even harder for you to do what you do as it won't be so blantantly obvious when said ganks are going to occur. No, I believe BUMPING without consequence is a flaw. It's illogical and unrealistic.. in HISEC. and if gankers can gank without BUMPING, what's your problem? Being a criminal is indeed harder in a law enforced area.
Have you seen any argument from me one way or another with regards to bumping? I'm simply pointing out that every time the nerf ganking crowd thinks they are fixing something it ends up mostly backfiring on them. If you have the time to waste, look up the threads that had to do with giving freighters fitting and how the tears of the ignorant ended up making it harder on everyone but mostly the ones who were crying the most.
Again, my problem is it is obvious you don't know enough about what is actually going on to have an objective opinion.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
|
Bella Jennie
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:13:39 -
[1233] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:I did NOT know what I was talking about and I apologize Fair enough, now you think maybe you might not understand enough about the meta game and maybe just maybe y'all should stop asking for bumping to be "fixed"? Gankers are more than capable of performing freighter ganks without bumping, if you guys do somehow manage to formulate a good enough argument to get the mechanic changed, the result will be that is is even harder for you to do what you do as it won't be so blantantly obvious when said ganks are going to occur. No, I believe BUMPING without consequence is a flaw. It's illogical and unrealistic.. in HISEC. and if gankers can gank without BUMPING, what's your problem? Being a criminal is indeed harder in a law enforced area. Have you seen any argument from me one way or another with regards to bumping? I'm simply pointing out that every time the nerf ganking crowd thinks they are fixing something it ends up mostly backfiring on them. If you have the time to waste, look up the threads that had to do with giving freighters fitting and how the tears of the ignorant ended up making it harder on everyone but mostly the ones who were crying the most. Again, my problem is it is obvious you don't know enough about what is actually going on to have an objective opinion.
you give me very little credit.. ouch
But if you are not afraid of a change in the BUMPING mechanic when done in HISEC, then we have no disagreements.
why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
44271
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:18:26 -
[1234] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:Currently BUMPING in order to gank in HISEC does NOT invoke the Crimewatch mechanic...
- that is EXACTLY what I hope gets fixed. I think if you look back through the whole thread; and the history of previous threads, that a lot of us that seem to be stoic opponents; aren't opposed to change at all. We would just like some solid evidence to show that a change is required. However, that aside; lets assume for a second that the evidence is convincing. Those of us that don't see a need for change also fly Freighters and the easy solution now is to just use webbing support. That reduces the risk of being ganked to at most 0.1% (but lower in reality) based on data currently available from Red Frog Freight (and more data coming in the next couple of weeks that will either confirm the RFF data or show a different pattern). So if the risk is less than 0.1% currently, how would you change the game to get it to an acceptable level of risk for you? here's the thing... and it's not even so much about more safety (although who would NOT want to be safer?) It's about getting to act like a jerk with impunity..
Ok, reason aside.
How would you change the game?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25857
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:18:59 -
[1235] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:you give me very little credit.. ouch I'd hazard a guess that's because you haven't posted anything that is deserving of credit.
Quote:But if you are not afraid of a change in the BUMPING mechanic when done in HISEC, then we have no disagreements. I can't speak for Lyod, but for myself, I welcome change, unless it's bad change. Which is what you're proposing because you don't want to use the mechanics, that are universally available, to achieve your goal.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Paranoid Loyd
8401
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:23:04 -
[1236] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:then we have no disagreements. Oh we do, it's just you are focused on the tree right in front of you while I am mostly speaking about the forest.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
|
Mag's
Rabble Inc.
Rabble Alliance
21236
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:25:52 -
[1237] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:you give me very little credit.. ouch I'd hazard a guess that's because you haven't posted anything that is deserving of credit. Quote:But if you are not afraid of a change in the BUMPING mechanic when done in HISEC, then we have no disagreements. I can't speak for Lyod, but for myself, I welcome change, unless it's bad change, which is what you're proposing. Indeed.
I would welcome change, if it could be shown there is a problem. But being told of one without evidence and seemingly only a problem when focusing on a specific special circumstance, isn't how balance is achieved. It certainly isn't justification, for such a fundamental change to game mechanics.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Bella Jennie
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:27:12 -
[1238] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:Currently BUMPING in order to gank in HISEC does NOT invoke the Crimewatch mechanic...
- that is EXACTLY what I hope gets fixed. I think if you look back through the whole thread; and the history of previous threads, that a lot of us that seem to be stoic opponents; aren't opposed to change at all. We would just like some solid evidence to show that a change is required. However, that aside; lets assume for a second that the evidence is convincing. Those of us that don't see a need for change also fly Freighters and the easy solution now is to just use webbing support. That reduces the risk of being ganked to at most 0.1% (but lower in reality) based on data currently available from Red Frog Freight (and more data coming in the next couple of weeks that will either confirm the RFF data or show a different pattern). So if the risk is less than 0.1% currently, how would you change the game to get it to an acceptable level of risk for you? here's the thing... and it's not even so much about more safety (although who would NOT want to be safer?) It's about getting to act like a jerk with impunity.. Ok, reason aside. How would you change the game?
by including BUMPING in the Crimewatch mechanic
why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
44271
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:28:54 -
[1239] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:by including BUMPING in the Crimewatch mechanic
That's a little light on detail. Maybe we can drill into it a bit more.
All bumping in highsec?
That's an awesome idea. CCP should definitely implement that.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Bella Jennie
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:29:30 -
[1240] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:you give me very little credit.. ouch I'd hazard a guess that's because you haven't posted anything that is deserving of credit. Quote:But if you are not afraid of a change in the BUMPING mechanic when done in HISEC, then we have no disagreements. I can't speak for Lyod, but for myself, I welcome change, unless it's bad change, which is what you're proposing. Indeed. I would welcome change, if it could be shown there is a problem. But being told of one without evidence and seemingly only a problem when focusing on a specific special circumstance, isn't how balance is achieved. It certainly isn't justification, for such a fundamental change to game mechanics.
OK, then please tell me why BUMPING with impunity in HISEC is so vital as to be defended to such an extent as exhibited here?
why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
|
Mag's
Rabble Inc.
Rabble Alliance
21236
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:33:04 -
[1241] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:Mag's wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:you give me very little credit.. ouch I'd hazard a guess that's because you haven't posted anything that is deserving of credit. Quote:But if you are not afraid of a change in the BUMPING mechanic when done in HISEC, then we have no disagreements. I can't speak for Lyod, but for myself, I welcome change, unless it's bad change, which is what you're proposing. Indeed. I would welcome change, if it could be shown there is a problem. But being told of one without evidence and seemingly only a problem when focusing on a specific special circumstance, isn't how balance is achieved. It certainly isn't justification, for such a fundamental change to game mechanics. OK, then please tell me why BUMPING with impunity in HISEC is so vital as to be defended to such an extent as exhibited here? I actually answered that in the quote. Please re-read it.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Bella Jennie
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:34:01 -
[1242] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:by including BUMPING in the Crimewatch mechanic
That's a little light on detail. Maybe we can drill into it a bit more. All bumping in highsec? That's an awesome idea. CCP should definitely implement that.
well not necessarily.. just the BUMPING that sets up a gank..
- now I do realize this is very complicated technically.. it needs to be worked out
and I'm sure the coding is quite involved as well..
why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
44276
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:39:01 -
[1243] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:well not necessarily.. just the BUMPING that sets up a gank..
- now I do realize this is very complicated technically.. it needs to be worked out
and I'm sure the coding is quite involved as well..
The difficult part is working out the logic first. Once you have the logic, the coding is simple, since it just has to implement what the logic of the design says.
The good thing about designing an algorithm is that the logic can be designed to a degree by anyone if you don't deal with the technical apsects of the code.
So thinking about the logic:
If you have an outcome to make bumping a crimewatch trigger if it is to set up a gank, what are the logical questions you would ask when bumping occurs to allow you to conclude that it is to set up a gank?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Bella Jennie
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:39:31 -
[1244] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:OK, then please tell me why BUMPING with impunity in HISEC is so vital as to be defended to such an extent as exhibited here? I actually answered that in the quote. Please re-read it.
Oh, so you're just gonna stand on "it's fundamental to the game"..
BUMPING with impunity in HISEC is fundamental to the game.. that's your opinion. OK
but honestly, if that's it.. it's a pretty shallow and unrealistic game IMHO
why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
|
Mag's
Rabble Inc.
Rabble Alliance
21236
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:40:57 -
[1245] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:
- now I do realize this is very complicated technically.. it needs to be worked out
and I'm sure the coding is quite involved as well..
In other words, it's a fundamental change and for what?
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Bella Jennie
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:42:11 -
[1246] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:well not necessarily.. just the BUMPING that sets up a gank..
- now I do realize this is very complicated technically.. it needs to be worked out
and I'm sure the coding is quite involved as well..
The difficult part is working out the logic first. Once you have the logic, the coding is simple, since it just has to implement what the logic of the design says. The good thing about designing an algorithm is that the logic can be designed to a degree by anyone if you don't deal with the technical apsects of the code. So thinking about the logic: If you have an outcome to make bumping a crimewatch trigger if it is to set up a gank, what are the logical questions you would ask when bumping occurs to allow you to conclude that it is to set up a gank? So, starting at the initial trigger: 1. Collision in highsec occurs What the first question you ask when that happens?
good question; good direction
- so first: is it intentional or not?
why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
|
Mag's
Rabble Inc.
Rabble Alliance
21236
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:44:41 -
[1247] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:Mag's wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:OK, then please tell me why BUMPING with impunity in HISEC is so vital as to be defended to such an extent as exhibited here? I actually answered that in the quote. Please re-read it. Oh, so you're just gonna stand on "it's fundamental to the game".. BUMPING with impunity in HISEC is fundamental to the game.. that's your opinion. OK but honestly, if that's it.. it's a pretty shallow and unrealistic game IMHO Bumping is part of the games mechanics, of course it's fundamental.
Now you want realistic? In a space sim of demi gods, set in fluid motion mechanics? Can we stick with sensible arguments please?
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Paranoid Loyd
8401
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:47:04 -
[1248] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:Mag's wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:OK, then please tell me why BUMPING with impunity in HISEC is so vital as to be defended to such an extent as exhibited here? I actually answered that in the quote. Please re-read it. Oh, so you're just gonna stand on "it's fundamental to the game".. BUMPING with impunity in HISEC is fundamental to the game.. that's your opinion. OK but honestly, if that's it.. it's a pretty shallow and unrealistic game IMHO Bumping is part of the games mechanics, of course it's fundamental. Now you want realistic? In a space sim of demi gods, set in fluid motion mechanics? Can we stick with sensible arguments please?
Let's not forget omnipotent police. 
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
|
Iain Cariaba
2590
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:47:14 -
[1249] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:here's the thing... and it's not even so much about more safety (although who would NOT want to be safer?)
It is about safety. If you fly with safety in mind, you almost never have to worry about getting bumped. If you fly with safety in mind, you can chuckle at the poor schmuck who didn't as you blithely warp away, secure in the knowledge that you're probably going to be making the profits he would have if the roles were reversed.
Instituting a suspect flag for bumping will only give lazy, inattentive pilots more security. Instead of fitting for tank and bringing a scout, they'll instead rely on the AG crowd to camp the trade routes looking to kill bumpers. When the AG crowd isn't doing this, they'll resort to whining on forums to get yet another nerf to ganking. They'll use the suspect timer to justify a criminal timer. This has been an ongoing pattern with carebears. Rather than use the provided tools to get 99.9% safety, they instead try to get more.
This happened with decreasing Concord response times.
This happened with making Concord invincible.
This happened with redoing mining barges and freighters.
This even happened with the current Crimewatch system.
It's never enough with you people until you get 100% total safety.
Bella Jennie wrote:It's about getting to act like a jerk with impunity..
One person's jerk is another's villainous attitude.
I know many, many gankers. Only a handful of them I consider jerks. Simply because one acts the villain in a game that allows you to be the villain doesn't make them a jerk.
If you cop an attitude about them playing the game the way they want to, then their response isn't going to be positive. On the other hand, if you're cool about the loss, they will happily teach you how to avoid the loss in the future.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4638
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:50:23 -
[1250] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:you've added nothing new..
you're just being contrary while merely making the discussion circular. I'm not being contrary at all, you asked if there was a way to play Eve without engaging in PvP, I answered your question; complete with a quote from the New Player FAQ that states everything you do in New Eden is to be considered a form of PvP, because that's the core concept of the game. That quote is not disputable, and I can provide others from the same official CCP document that further reinforce what it says. You stated that miners are treated as stupid and lazy, I pointed out that's what generally happens to people who are being stupid and lazy in a PvP environment such as Eve; just as it's what happens to people who are stupid and lazy in real life. I also pointed out that a miner who knows that Eve is a PvP environment and plans accordingly is often treated with respect. Your last point was that you wanted to be safe in hisec, I pointed out that your safety in hisec is your responsibility and that you should take steps to fulfil that responsibility. Nowhere was I being circular, nor have I stated anything that is false or misleading. Try harder. Jonah is exactly correct. Even mining has a PvP aspect to it. Since the belts are open to anyone if somebody comes into the belt then they can take some of the more valuable ore before I do. That is a type of competition, a type of PvP. When I sell something on the market and undercut the current lowest price seller I am going to take sales he might have otherwise gotten. CompetitionGǪPvP. To say one wants to play the game and not engage in behavior that does not impact other players that person is just being silly. Hell, when I buy something off the market, it has an effect. Players participating in the market is what generates prices which in turn tell inventors and/or builders information on what to build. Prices inform miners on what are the best rocks to mine. Etc. with all due respect, reading your posts is an excercize in wordplay, nuance of definitions.. "even mining has a PVP aspect" indeed!  it's comical. Comical while adding nothing to the gist of this thread.. I'm trying to make you aware.. no disrespect intended. Really.
Okay, simple example:
There is one asteroid and we are both interested in mining it. If I get there a few minutes first and have better skills, ship, etc. then IGÇÖll GÇ£winGÇ¥ by getting more of that asteroid and the resulting ore. PvP is competition. As such mining does have a competitive aspect to it. Not in the same sense as me shooting you in the face (in game obviously), but none-the-less it is PvP.
So, if anything you are the one unaware of the nature of this game. About the only aspect of the game where there is little to no competition/PvP is mission running. If I am running a mission for Agent X, you can too. The use of agents is non-rivalrous and non-excludable.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16213
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:53:51 -
[1251] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:
- so first: is it intentional or not?
*facepalm
The game engine cannot determine intent. Like, at all, it lacks the capacity.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4638
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:55:32 -
[1252] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:Currently BUMPING in order to gank in HISEC does NOT invoke the Crimewatch mechanic...
- that is EXACTLY what I hope gets fixed. I think if you look back through the whole thread; and the history of previous threads, that a lot of us that seem to be stoic opponents; aren't opposed to change at all. We would just like some solid evidence to show that a change is required. However, that aside; lets assume for a second that the evidence is convincing. Those of us that don't see a need for change also fly Freighters and the easy solution now is to just use webbing support. That reduces the risk of being ganked to at most 0.1% (but lower in reality) based on data currently available from Red Frog Freight (and more data coming in the next couple of weeks that will either confirm the RFF data or show a different pattern). So if the risk is less than 0.1% currently, how would you change the game to get it to an acceptable level of risk for you? here's the thing... and it's not even so much about more safety (although who would NOT want to be safer?) It's about getting to act like a jerk with impunity..
You keep on impugning our characters and whining when people get heated with you. You really are a special snowflake.
As for who would not want to be safer? Hi. How you doing. I live in null sec and spend a great deal of time there. I also do invention in low sec because the taxes are lower and I know how to avoid the problems low sec.
So here I am in areas of the game less safe than were you prefer to play and IGÇÖm not only fine with it, IGÇÖm making decent ISK too and keeping myself entertained.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Mag's
Rabble Inc.
Rabble Alliance
21238
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:55:44 -
[1253] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:
- so first: is it intentional or not?
*facepalm The game engine cannot determine intent. Like, at all, it lacks the capacity. I tried to explain this to bigbud. Apparently it didn't matter.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4644
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:58:10 -
[1254] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:
This happened with making Concord invincible.
Yep. Some of the newer players may not know this, but waaaay back you could kill CONCORD.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Bella Jennie
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 22:59:01 -
[1255] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:here's the thing... and it's not even so much about more safety (although who would NOT want to be safer?) It is about safety. If you fly with safety in mind, you almost never have to worry about getting bumped. If you fly with safety in mind, you can chuckle at the poor schmuck who didn't as you blithely warp away, secure in the knowledge that you're probably going to be making the profits he would have if the roles were reversed. Instituting a suspect flag for bumping will only give lazy, inattentive pilots more security. Instead of fitting for tank and bringing a scout, they'll instead rely on the AG crowd to camp the trade routes looking to kill bumpers. When the AG crowd isn't doing this, they'll resort to whining on forums to get yet another nerf to ganking. They'll use the suspect timer to justify a criminal timer. This has been an ongoing pattern with carebears. Rather than use the provided tools to get 99.9% safety, they instead try to get more. This happened with decreasing Concord response times. This happened with making Concord invincible. This happened with redoing mining barges and freighters. This even happened with the current Crimewatch system. It's never enough with you people until you get 100% total safety. Bella Jennie wrote:It's about getting to act like a jerk with impunity.. One person's jerk is another's villainous attitude. I know many, many gankers. Only a handful of them I consider jerks. Simply because one acts the villain in a game that allows you to be the villain doesn't make them a jerk. If you cop an attitude about them playing the game the way they want to, then their response isn't going to be positive. On the other hand, if you're cool about the loss, they will happily teach you how to avoid the loss in the future.
the elitist attitude, the contempt for carebears...
I'm never gonna get through to you..
All the changes you list are great improvements. I know you and the other veteran elites hate them.
- that's why I asked why you even continue to play.
Because it is about being a jerk; picking on the weak because you can.
That's going to change. it's gotta change if CCP wants any hope of taking the game further..
why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
|
Bella Jennie
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 23:01:51 -
[1256] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:
This happened with making Concord invincible.
Yep. Some of the newer players may not know this, but waaaay back you could kill CONCORD.
yea and waaay back you ganked 1st day newbies and played with cans..
- fun times, lots of laughs at all the carebear tears..
it was a game for jerks..
why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
44280
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 23:03:11 -
[1257] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:good question; good direction
- so first: is it intentional or not?
Ok, so to extend this as I think I know where you are going, the full set of steps might look like
- Collision occurs
- Is the collision intentional?
- If intentional - suspect flag
- Else - continue as normal
So the net result would be only intentional bumping is a trigger for a suspect flag.
The difficulty at this level of detail is that the question
Is the collision intentional?
Is difficult to know, because it needs more questions to be asked first. After all, if I bump into you in highsec, how do you know if it was intentional or not?
So if you break that question down further, how do you determine if my bump into you was intentional or not?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16220
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 23:03:47 -
[1258] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Bella Jennie wrote:
- so first: is it intentional or not?
*facepalm The game engine cannot determine intent. Like, at all, it lacks the capacity. I tried to explain this to bigbud. Apparently it didn't matter.
It's a motherfucking background process of the physics engine, for crying out loud. it's probably just a simple collision check, no different than say, Skyrim.
You can't change jack **** about that, let alone try to tag along a bunch of other checks associated with a higher level process (like flagging).
Idk all that much about stackless Python from fifteen years ago, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way. They'd have to rewrite the game from the ground up, something they haven't been able to do in half a decade or more, or they wouldn't have taken so long to replace POSes.
Speaking of which, teachable moment here.
Did you know that, in all likelihood, they have not actually fixed POS code at all? What they've done is functionally cut it out of the game by replacing it with a different mechanic, the Citadel system. The POS code is most likely still intertwined into the base game, they're just going to delete all the in game instances of it once they have a stable replacement, and then pretend like it doesn't exist.
You know how I know this? Two reasons.
We've been told repeatedly that CCP has been unable to fix the POS code because it was largely undocumented and wound into too many other things in the base game. Removing it would break EVE in a fundamental, unfixable way. I have no reason to believe they lied about this, so the second assumption moves forward from that.
Secondly, that they have been making their own mini structures in the form of the various, and mostly loathed, deployables for the past year or so. They have been testing and building upon their ability not to fix the POS code, but to build a stable replacement.
Hopefully that makes sense to everybody, I have had a few.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4644
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Posted - 2016.02.05 23:04:34 -
[1259] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:
the elitist attitude, the contempt for carebears...
I'm never gonna get through to you..
All the changes you list are great improvements. I know you and the other veteran elites hate them.
- that's why I asked why you even continue to play.
Because it is about being a jerk; picking on the weak because you can.
That's going to change. it's gotta change if CCP wants any hope of taking the game further..
I'm pretty sure I have not said anything against carebears. People who want to do industry, mining, trading, inventing, etcGǪ.great! I do invention myself and learned it from a couple of players who were carebears first and dabbled in PvP when it suited them.
I also like PvP and living in NS and shooting people in the face. IGÇÖve done small solo roams, big giant fleets engagements, ganked, been ganked, and so forth.
And if I ever meet up with somebody who ganked me, shot me in the face, even kicked us out of our spaceGǪIGÇÖd quite happily sit down and drink an alcoholic beverage with them and have fun. There are people in this game I consider my mortal space enemy (in game)GǪ.who I hope I could be friends with in RL if I ever do get the chance to meet them.
Calling people who want to play differently than you jerks tells us who the real jerk is here.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16220
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Posted - 2016.02.05 23:04:50 -
[1260] - Quote
Bella Jennie wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:
This happened with making Concord invincible.
Yep. Some of the newer players may not know this, but waaaay back you could kill CONCORD. yea and waaay back you ganked 1st day newbies and played with cans.. - fun times, lots of laughs at all the carebear tears.. it was a game for jerks..
It had way more players and way more active players back then.
Pretty clear which one the market prefers.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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