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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15973
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Posted - 2016.01.29 01:43:20 -
[241] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: Does this really occur frequently in freighter ganks that the catalysts loot and eject before dying?
Nope, that is a lie and an oft repeated falsehood of the anti ganking "community".
Pretty sure it was invented by the same guy who devised the "open fifty instances of the in game browser to crash your client when you get tackled" trick. That one was funny, because I'm pretty sure it actually got one of them banned for trying it.
Every gank I've ever been on, they just straight up looted the freighter afterward.
Quote: With a freighter carrying 1 million m^3 approximately, why are we even talking about this as an issue at all?
Because the anti gankers hope that if they tell enough lies eventually one of them will stick.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Bunnyhopping days
138
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Posted - 2016.01.29 02:13:30 -
[242] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Those things are hard? Oh well...
Your arguments fall apart like this every time yet you continue with rubbish such as ganking has no risk/consequences despite the fact anyone with an IQ over 60 can clearly see its the single most punished and risky activity in highsec. You have been given plenty of ways to beat the gankers, as well as statistics that show you are more likely to be involved in a traffic accident than be ganked in EVE. Your own laziness, greed and stupidity is no excuse to further remove content from an already content starved area of space.
Dunno where you get the idea that I want ganking removed from hisec, I'm trying to focus on bumping and safe looting here. Try and stay focused too. |
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Bunnyhopping days
138
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Posted - 2016.01.29 02:14:55 -
[243] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:baltec1 wrote:Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Those things are hard? Oh well...
Your arguments fall apart like this every time yet you continue with rubbish such as ganking has no risk/consequences despite the fact anyone with an IQ over 60 can clearly see its the single most punished and risky activity in highsec. You have been given plenty of ways to beat the gankers, as well as statistics that show you are more likely to be involved in a traffic accident than be ganked in EVE. Your own laziness, greed and stupidity is no excuse to further remove content from an already content starved area of space. Dunno where you get the idea that I want content removed from hisec, I'm trying to focus on bumping and safe looting here. Ganking is fine. Try and stay focused too.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3018
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Posted - 2016.01.29 02:15:11 -
[244] - Quote
Looting a freighter with catalysts would take a while. They have to loot the wreck, jettision and then loot from the wreck into their can. They can only jettison one can per minute, bearing in mind you've had 20 seconds to shoot these guys as well, and even if each catalyst fills its can, its gonna take a while for whatever comes for those cans to scoop them all. During which it is vulnerableto being bumped and shot (or shoot or scoop the cans. Maybe they should be blue).
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3022
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Posted - 2016.01.29 02:18:21 -
[245] - Quote
You were just telling people to look at the bigger picture...
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15973
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 02:19:28 -
[246] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Dunno where you get the idea that I want content removed from hisec
Because you want to remove content from highsec.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44008
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Posted - 2016.01.29 02:22:03 -
[247] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: I'm trying to provide additional by focusing on bumping and safe looting here. Try and stay focused too. What safe looting?
How do they do this? As per the OP's explanation?
Maybe you can post different figures to what I posted on the previous page then that shows that this is an issue?
In addition, why is the looting in a gank, any safer or otherwise from any other looter in highsec?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Mag's
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
21037
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Posted - 2016.01.29 02:59:33 -
[248] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Lesovyk Mara wrote:Meanwhile, I'll just keep webbing my Freighter pilot into warp and not worry about bumping at all.
I pass through Uedama, Niarja and Madirmilire daily and even when there are Mach's on gate, it's never a problem. The webs are too quick. It's not raining in my backyard, that must mean it's not raining anywhere on planet Earth. Right? Wrong analogy. A proper analogy would be as follows.
Gankers and safest haulers: "There is always a chance of rain, so I shall don my rain coat and use an umbrella."
Anti gankers and not so safe haulers: "There may be rain, but I shall chance it anyway in my shorts and T -shirt. But later I will pray to god and ask him to abolish rain completely, there is simply no reason why I should get wet."
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4470
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Posted - 2016.01.29 03:29:21 -
[249] - Quote
KickAss Tivianne wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:KickAss Tivianne wrote:John E Normus wrote:Buy a 10 million isk permit from your nearest New Order agent, obey the Code and enjoy one year of bump and gank free game play!
I strongly recommend you put a message of support for James 315, the Supreme Protector and Saviour of Highsec, in your bio.
Good talk, fly safe!
Thanks for highlighting another problem! But that's another thread. :) He is not the problem. You are. You are your own problem. Might want to look to that. Ganker calm down.
I don't gank freighters...well except for various Burn XXXXX events. As I said, you are the problem. Figure out what you are doing wrong and fix it.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4470
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Posted - 2016.01.29 03:36:18 -
[250] - Quote
ISD WTF... you guys off on a bender and drunk?
Locked indefinitely
Hello, ISD you guys on vacation?
Derp de derp, I am ISD letting a locked thread be re-opened
This is me reporting by own post because ISD is drunk and asleep at the wheel.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Iain Cariaba
2447
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Posted - 2016.01.29 06:44:02 -
[251] - Quote
Honestly, why lock it? There will be a new thread whining about the exact same thing an hour later.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
3639
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Posted - 2016.01.29 09:13:12 -
[252] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Honestly, why lock it? There will be a new thread whining about the exact same thing an hour later.
We wouldn't need all those threads if high sec was perfectly safe like it was intended to be, despite what many devs have said. How could they possibly know better than me when I'm bump hurt.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Bunnyhopping days
138
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Posted - 2016.01.29 09:14:39 -
[253] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: I'm trying to provide additional by focusing on bumping and safe looting here. Try and stay focused too. What safe looting? How do they do this? As per the OP's explanation? Maybe you can post different figures to what I posted on the previous page then that shows that this is an issue? In addition, why is the looting in a gank, any safer or otherwise from any other looter in highsec?
TBH, I don't think I've seen what OP describes in practice. Admittedly, I have not been so active in anti-ganking fleets recently so something might have changed.
Safe looting I was refering to involves use of a ship with fleet hanger (DST or Orca, 50k m3) and a disposable alt. You get them into fleet, open fleet hanger for fleet members, land them next to a wreck (they usually come along with the ganking crew) and use disposable alt to transfer loot to dst. The disposable alt gets tagged as a suspect but DST (ship holding the actual loot) is flag-free and warps off. It is easy and extremely safe for the looter/ganker. Now, fixing this mechanic would open MORE (not less) content as looters would have to time their moves better, HICs would become a truly useful anti-ganking/anti-looting tool and there would be some actual risk involved in the act of looting. See, content for all involved, and that's what we all want more of - risk and content, right? Right!? |
Mag's
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
21039
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 10:22:57 -
[254] - Quote
Ahh so it has to be a disposable alt? Not just an alt, but a disposable alt? (I posted the word twice, was that enough?)
I also find it funny that that the AG crowd complain about easy hauler kills, but apparently a DST sat waiting to be filled is too safe. Ironic.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17185
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 10:47:36 -
[255] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Ahh so it has to be a disposable alt? Not just an alt, but a disposable alt? (I posted the word twice, was that enough?)
I also find it funny that that the AG crowd complain about easy hauler kills, but apparently a DST sat waiting to be filled is too safe. Ironic.
Not to mention the fact that this supposedly easier than AFK flying a freighter activity suddenly just gained yet another step (a step that wont work as no matter how hard you try 165k-1.2 million m3 will not fit into a ship with 40k easily or quickly, especially if its a package or of its lumbering around with freight containers) to being successful and require yet another person. So now we have upwards of 31 working on the gankers side vs 1 semi AFK hauler.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2138
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 10:53:17 -
[256] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Ahh so it has to be a disposable alt? Not just an alt, but a disposable alt? (I posted the word twice, was that enough?)
I also find it funny that that the AG crowd complain about easy hauler kills, but apparently a DST sat waiting to be filled is too safe. Ironic. I too always find this funny. They go on and on about "easy kills" and "no risk" and then beg CCP to make bumpers and looters to be made suspect so they can shoot them like fish in a barrel from behind the protection of CONCORD. It brings a smile to my face each time.
Don't get me wrong, looting stolen goods should be a conflict driver and I wouldn't mind it if something was changed so it could lead to more fights, but the lack of awareness of the irony of asking CCP to make it easier to shoot defenseless industrial ships is delicious.
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Bunnyhopping days
138
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 11:25:19 -
[257] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mag's wrote:Ahh so it has to be a disposable alt? Not just an alt, but a disposable alt? (I posted the word twice, was that enough?)
I also find it funny that that the AG crowd complain about easy hauler kills, but apparently a DST sat waiting to be filled is too safe. Ironic. Not to mention the fact that this supposedly easier than AFK flying a freighter activity suddenly just gained yet another step (a step that wont work as no matter how hard you try 165k-1.2 million m3 will not fit into a ship with 40k easily or quickly, especially if its a package or of its lumbering around with freight containers) to being successful and require yet another person. So now we have upwards of 31 working on the gankers side vs 1 semi AFK hauler.
Actually, the numbers are quite often about 12-15ish (judging by ts numbers on teamspeak :P).
For startes DST fleet hanger has 50k m3 (at max skill even more but for some reason 50k is maximum allowed for transfer). DST is not waiting, it lands with gankers and yes - it is quite safe since those ganking ships will also engage anything else within their range once freighter is down. You should seriously brush up on current ganking practices.
Even if it was not the case, one question remains - why should one be forced into becoming a criminal to fight criminals in hisec? You guys are arguing this constantly as if it is something natural and logical and even consider the fact that a situation in which becoming the criminal is the only guaranteed way of stopping a bump is completely acceptable and normal while in fact it is imbalanced against people who do not want to engage in a criminal lifestyle in the game. No one's preventing you to do what you want and bear the consequences, but forgive me (and others) for not seeing how fighting you should have the same set of consequences in what is supposed to be high security space. Your despise towards the carebears, pvp awerse folks in this game and even those who simply disagree with you is palpable, but I truly don't understand it.
Also, try focusing on the subject instead of constantly going off topic - remember, it is not ganking we're discussing, it is bumping and safe looting (and yes, it is safe if the hauler has no repercussions from taking stolen goods). If you want number comparisons - to be able to bump indefinitely you need two accounts which will negate anything freighter (with two accounts) can dish out (webbing alts included). This is a fact which has been proven time and time again by your kind.
Finally, removal of both things discussed in this thread (fleet hanger looting and bumping) would in no way remove freighter ganking from the game, it would only make it more consequence laden and active in terms of gameplay - exactly the things you are constantly asking from the other side. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17186
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 11:43:13 -
[258] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
For startes DST fleet hanger has 50k m3 (at max skill even more but for some reason 50k is maximum allowed for transfer). DST is not waiting, it lands with gankers and yes - it is quite safe since those ganking ships will also engage anything else within their range once freighter is down. You should seriously brush up on current ganking practices.
You have a few second cover before concord have killed all of it.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Even if it was not the case, one question remains - why should one be forced into becoming a criminal to fight criminals in hisec?
You don't, you just ignore all of the other options.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Also, try focusing on the subject instead of constantly going off topic - remember, it is not ganking we're discussing
Of course its ganking being talked about, you want to nerf tactics used by gankers to make yourself even safer despite the fact that its super easy to avoid in the first place.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Finally, removal of both things discussed in this thread (fleet hanger looting and bumping) would in no way remove freighter ganking from the game, it would only make it more consequence laden and active in terms of gameplay - exactly the things you are constantly asking from the other side.
It is yet another nerf to an already over nerfed activity and falls into the "just one more nerf" argument that has been so destructive to highsec content over the years. Its always the same, you damand nerf and nerf anfer nerf untill the activity become impossible and vanishes alltogether. This is what has happened to profitable barge ganking and jecan theifs, both of which no longer exist.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15983
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 11:54:10 -
[259] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Even if it was not the case, one question remains - why should one be forced into becoming a criminal to fight criminals in hisec?
You aren't forced to.
What you want is to kill the non criminals, the bumper especially, without having to gank them.
You want to have your cake and eat it too, which will never happen. If you refuse to use all the options available to you, your gameplay should be limited, simple as that.
Don't like it? Then man up and become a real player.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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ISD Max Trix
isd community communications liaisons
147
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 13:04:12 -
[260] - Quote
Quote: 2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
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A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
8. Use of profanity is prohibited.
The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter.
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The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category.
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CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.
I have removed a post and those quoting it for the above reasons. If you have an issue with the moderation of the forums, the correct procedure is to file a support ticket, not spam the forums.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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Lyma Sarum
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.01.29 15:38:52 -
[261] - Quote
For those taking some time to answer to me politely thank you. But many people in here seem to have a great difficulty separating the pilot/capsuleer from the actual player. I noticed enough posts and answers (not concerning just me) holding a "Well if you can't handle it its your problem, uninstall, carebear" etc etc. I don't get it. This is supposed to be an "ideas discussion". There seems to be more forum warrior-ing going on rather than discussion. It's worse than the kids raging about their mobas in reddit.
It is very sad to see a community holding such a toxic attitude but its a free world and a sandbox game so I will not ***** more about it. You have kinda convinced me however that this game is probably not for me. I also like to kick my friends or anyone's face in any pvp environment but when talking as a player I can leave the nerd rage in the game. This is very irregular here. And I also thank you for that. I know what to expect if I manage to stay in EVE.
Maybe this was the wrong forum to post as a newb and so I got what was coming? I don't know. Maybe I am too old for this and should've stopped in UO. I hope you get something positive out of all this discussion in the end. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2142
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 16:27:00 -
[262] - Quote
Lyma Sarum wrote:For those taking some time to answer to me politely thank you. But many people in here seem to have a great difficulty separating the pilot/capsuleer from the actual player. I noticed enough posts and answers (not concerning just me) holding a "Well if you can't handle it its your problem, uninstall, carebear" etc etc. I don't get it. This is supposed to be an "ideas discussion". There seems to be more forum warrior-ing going on rather than discussion. It's worse than the kids raging about their mobas in reddit. Perhaps some of the context you are missing is that Eve is an ancient game - almost 13 years old - which is really old by almost anyone's standards which means this discussion, which is essentially should the game be made safer, has be hashed, re-hashed, and then hashed again many, many times. Since Eve is a competitive sandbox game, almost any change made has a direct and profound influence on the balance of the game and of the players in it. That is not to say changes should never be made, but it is extremely common for players to come to these forums and suggest an "idea" which primarily benefits them at the expense of other players, rather than a change that is truly beneficial for everyone and is consistent with the type of game CCP is trying to develop. Haulers have been coming to these forum for over a decade suggesting that things be made safer for them, which of course is a direct detriment to the players who hunt them in the game (an activity the developers explicitly intend to exist).
Therefore you end up with yet another incarnation of this thread which has people on one side arguing that their game should be tilted in their favour and the other guy's game made harder because they have it too easy, and the other side saying that no, their game is actually hard enough, and the other side is just whining. Sometimes one side is correct, sometimes the truth is somewhere in the middle, but often things get heated as both sides see the other side is being unreasonable.
In this case, bumping has been here since the dawn of the game and debated endlessly and the developer has even ruled that it is a legal mechanic in the game. With those facts, you can see why those that frequent the forums get tired of hearing the same complaint over bumping raised each month (granted, usually by different or new people) and when no actual "idea" is presented other than some module that eliminates the mechanic entirely like the OP in this thread, accuse the poster of whining. In the end that is the game, and if you don't like it, your only option is not play. By all means, if you have a novel idea on how to make the game better you can present it, but if you are just going to complain about a legal and established mechanic then expect to catch some heat and accusations of trying to change the game in your favour.
Lyma Sarum wrote:It is very sad to see a community holding such a toxic attitude but its a free world and a sandbox game so I will not ***** more about it. You have kinda convinced me however that this game is probably not for me. I also like to kick my friends or anyone's face in any pvp environment but when talking as a player I can leave the nerd rage in the game. This is very irregular here. And I also thank you for that. I know what to expect if I manage to stay in EVE.
Maybe this was the wrong forum to post as a newb and so I got what was coming? I don't know. Maybe I am too old for this and should've stopped in UO. I hope you get something positive out of all this discussion in the end. There are plenty of other games out there, most of which are less competitive and cut-throat than Eve. For many of us that is what drew us to this game and why we are so passionate about protecting it, but Eve isn't for everyone, so I am sure you will have no problem finding another game to play. You will be much happier finding that game which suits you better instead of spending your life futilely arguing on these forums in an attempt to lobby the developers to change Eve to what you want it to be like so many players here do.
Like a bad relationship, it is much better to break away cleanly and find someone who suits you better and you enjoy spending your time with, than to spend all your energies trying to change them into your ideal mate.
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Brad Neece
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 02:16:38 -
[263] - Quote
Balancing Looting... 1. Looted items themselves being tagged for trigger for suspect....if the original looter is still on suspect/criminal timer.
2. The items that drop from criminals fits and original cargo should allowed to be taken freely without going Suspect.....except the looted items they may have taken as Concord finishes them off.
3. Fleet Hanger owners must accept looted items before they are dropped into ship and take a Suspect Timer for it
Avoid having to manually allow it, by having safety yellow....but still go Suspect once its dropped in.
4. Can't loot after attempting to start Warp To/Dock.....Or atleast no looting after speed to get to warp is above 25%.
This gives risk to all looters. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44024
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 03:42:02 -
[264] - Quote
Brad Neece wrote:3. Fleet Hanger owners must accept looted items before they are dropped into ship and take a Suspect Timer for it
Avoid having to manually allow it, by having safety yellow....but still go Suspect once its dropped in.
This gives risk to all looters. How will this work out for an Orca pilot being used in a belt or ice field by miners to transfer ore and loot from rats to?
If a fleet hangar owner has to take a suspect timer to accept items being dropped into the fleet hangar, that's going to kill the use of an Orca for a mining fleet.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44024
|
Posted - 2016.01.30 03:51:16 -
[265] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Safe looting I was refering to involves use of a ship with fleet hanger (DST or Orca, 50k m3) and a disposable alt. You get them into fleet, open fleet hanger for fleet members, land them next to a wreck (they usually come along with the ganking crew) and use disposable alt to transfer loot to dst. The disposable alt gets tagged as a suspect but DST (ship holding the actual loot) is flag-free and warps off. It is easy and extremely safe for the looter/ganker. Now, fixing this mechanic would open MORE (not less) content as looters would have to time their moves better, HICs would become a truly useful anti-ganking/anti-looting tool and there would be some actual risk involved in the act of looting. See, content for all involved, and that's what we all want more of - risk and content, right? Right!? That makes a lot more sense than the explanation in the OP.
How would it be fixed?
Before the alt that loots does any looting, they are not suspect at all, so indistinguishable from anyone else in highsec. The orca/DST pilot is not doing anything wrong just by making their fleet hangar available to fleet members. It's something my boosting alt does regularly (I mine ice in highsec for POS fuel, Strontium Clathrates and liquid ozone for cynos).
The only thing the Orca/DST pilot is doing is sitting, accepting material into their fleet hangar.
So if the act of accepting material into a fleet hangar is going to somehow trigger a suspect flag (since sitting in space wouldn't be logical), then that is going to have a massive negative impact on other highsec activities, particularly that of miners.
Personally, I'd have no problem. I'd adapt my operations around it, but if the idea is to bring content for all, then the tears that would be generated from a change would be enormous, because surely this would be an across the board change?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Brad Neece
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.01.30 04:06:29 -
[266] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Brad Neece wrote:3. Fleet Hanger owners must accept looted items before they are dropped into ship and take a Suspect Timer for it
Avoid having to manually allow it, by having safety yellow....but still go Suspect once its dropped in.
This gives risk to all looters. How will this work out for an Orca pilot being used in a belt or ice field by miners to transfer ore and loot from rats to? If a fleet hangar owner has to take a suspect timer to accept items being dropped into the fleet hangar, that's going to kill the use of an Orca as increased storage for a mining fleet.
Well....That's not the same. It's fine as his fleet members didn't loot somebodies wreck illegally. And if by chance they did the Orca pilot gets a pop up asking if he accepts, as long as he the orca pilot has his safety green...he will always get the pop up asking before illegal goods are taken on board. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44025
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Posted - 2016.01.30 05:28:16 -
[267] - Quote
Brad Neece wrote:Well....That's not the same. It's fine as his fleet members didn't loot somebodies wreck illegally. And if by chance they did the Orca pilot gets a pop up asking if he accepts, as long as he the orca pilot has his safety green...he will always get the pop up asking before illegal goods are taken on board. If all items legal....no pop up. This would be hilarious.
In the ice belts in Ignebaener (?sp) where I mine ice, there is a large mining fleet there that runs a dozen (sometimes more) mining barges, all feeding ice into the orca. They also salvage and loot wrecks that are created from NPC rats.
I can't imagine anyone wanting to be continuously clicking "yes accept" over and over and over. As creatures of habit, it won't take long before players set their orca to yellow safety, because waiting for someone to click accept before you can transfer something to them will eat into efficiency. Alternatively of course, the forum will be filled with F&I requests to make accepting items automatic.
What you are proposing will be the new way to awox and it will be extremely funny when awoxers are able to deliberately loot yellow wrecks and then transfer to an Orca to make the Orca pilot suspect, having done nothing wrong himself. That will be the only mechanic in the game where it will be possible for 1 player to make another one suspect without that other player doing anything. Awesome outcome.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2147
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Posted - 2016.01.30 06:47:29 -
[268] - Quote
See what I mean about this all being discussed to death?
Yes, with looting you quickly come to the problem either you open ships up to being made suspect without clicking a button, which really would be one of those mechanics people would use to trick others into going suspect for AWOXing purposes, or you significantly reduce the utility of the shared hanger by demanding constant clicks. And even if you do solve it somehow, that still leaves the launder-through-a-jetcan method (or a Mobile Depot even) as an almost equivalent method to avoid flagging a hauler.
The only way to do it properly is to flag the item itself as 'stolen' and make the hauler actively click a button to accept anything with that flag but then you hit the database problem where many items cannot carry such a flag. The only way I can see around this (without a major rewrite of the item database) is to make illegally acquired loot spawn in a special container in the wreck that would carry a 'stolen' flag. Anyone who had this container would get a suspect flag and the game would not allow it to be looted or transferred to a shared hanger wthout spawning a specific dialog box. The container could only be opened and the items removed in a station.
That is a bit of an ugly hack, and I am not sure if it as well is technically feasible (what about items that are already in a container when the ship is destroyed?) and would have the obvious problems of not allowing players to loot only specific items and making recovery of large volume loot potentially impossible for some players. That would impact lowsec PvPers significantly, who don't usually fly with a hauler for loot so on balance. I don't see this as a viable solution even if it were possible.
I just don't see an easy fix without some change to the way flags are assigned and tracked. Maybe if there is a Smuggler Expansion and the way illegal items are tracked by the game is updated, CCP will look at some way of giving all items flags to determine illegality. But it isn't a trivial fix so don't expect a change to looting mechanic anytime soon even if I agree one would be desirable. |
Brad Neece
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.01.30 06:54:41 -
[269] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Brad Neece wrote:Well....That's not the same. It's fine as his fleet members didn't loot somebodies wreck illegally. And if by chance they did the Orca pilot gets a pop up asking if he accepts, as long as he the orca pilot has his safety green...he will always get the pop up asking before illegal goods are taken on board. If all items legal....no pop up. This would be hilarious. In the ice belts in Ignebaener (?sp) where my alt mines ice, there is a large mining fleet there that runs a dozen (sometimes more) mining barges, all feeding ice into the orca. They also salvage and loot wrecks that are created from NPC rats. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be continuously clicking "yes accept" over and over and over. As creatures of habit, it won't take long before players set their orca to yellow safety, because waiting for someone to click accept before you can transfer something to them will eat into efficiency. Alternatively of course, the forum will be filled with F&I requests to make accepting items automatic. What you are proposing will be the new way to awox and it will be extremely funny when awoxers are able to deliberately loot yellow wrecks and then transfer to an Orca to make the Orca pilot suspect, having done nothing wrong himself. That will be the only mechanic in the game where it will be possible for 1 player to make another one suspect without that other player doing anything. Awesome outcome.
If all items transferring were obtained legally....there will not be a popup needing "yes accept" constantly. Now IF somebody tries to transfer items they just stole in the past 15 minutes(Suspect Timer)... that's when "yes accept" is needed from the Orca pilot or Block option there as well. He is afterall accepting stolen goods onto his ship, no? That should be Suspect for the Orca pilot. If the originally owners decide they wanted back what was stolen from them....they are out of luck unless they gank the Orca that now has those items and in that case Concord kill them for even attempting LOL.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44027
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Posted - 2016.01.30 07:13:53 -
[270] - Quote
Brad Neece wrote:If all items transferring were obtained legally....there will not be a popup needing "yes accept" constantly. Now IF somebody tries to transfer items they just stole in the past 15 minutes(Suspect Timer)... that's when "yes accept" is needed from the Orca pilot or Block option there as well. He is afterall accepting stolen goods onto his ship, no? That should be Suspect for the Orca pilot. If the originally owners decide they wanted back what was stolen from them....they are out of luck unless they gank the Orca that now has those items and in that case Concord kill them for even attempting LOL. Now this is becoming confusing.
Is it something taken within the last 15 minutes, so attached to the player's state (since an item has no idea of time within crimewatch), or something that was stolen, so attached to the item?
If it is attached to the player, then the item can be anything whether taken legally or not.
If it's attached to the item, then I could loot something illegally and be suspect for 15 minutes. Even put it in a hangar somewhere if I want and then take it out after that, when I'm no longer suspect and transfer it. I could even trade it to someone in station and set it up so they transfer it innocently.
For example, I could go shoot an alt of mine that is carrying mining crystals. Loot them illegally and then later on, put them in a mining barge. Something that looks totally normal in the context of a mining fleet. Then transfer them to the Orca hold.
Additionally, I think you are thinking that items have more stats attached to them then they do. Anything that is packaged is just a reference to a TypeID. It isn't an object while it is packaged, so can't know it's state as being stolen or not. It's not the items that make someone suspect, but the act of looting from a wreck or container that doesn't belong to them.
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