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Reiisha
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
   |
Posted - 2007.01.31 05:59:00 -
[1]
I think i'm finally getting convinced by the fact that Vista sucks. I'm an avid gamer, and after reading up on the ridiculous amount of processes that run on a Vista PC that you don't even need (and can't turn off), i won't be buying/installing Vista. But there are other reasons.
1. Vista will eventually require you to get new hardware, since the 'old' hardware (anything below a GeForce 7xxx/Radeon x1xxx for example) won't be able to pass Vista's 'protection' standards. In other words, you've being forced to buy hardware that some might not even use.
2. Vista will run a lot of processes that, by the looks of it, can't be turned off. Which results on drastically decreased performance in all areas. Vista actually requires a lot of resources to insure that nothing happens - Yes, you read that right!
3. Microsoft has gone nuts and has turned a reasonably stable and adjustable OS into a monstrosity that can only be used to play media that don't even exist yet, and even then it runs catastrophically bad.
By buying Vista you will support these things. I don't know about you, but everything can run fine on Windows XP, and there has yet to be a single piece of (useful) programming that *needs* Vista to run. Even CCP still provides a Windows XP version of the new graphics engine, so to speak, so there is no real incentive to upgrade anyway, if you can even call it upgrading.
So, what i'm asking of anyone who reads this is to pass on the word. To everyone, your family, your company, your friends, to simply ignore Vista. Have them ask for XP to be installed on new PC's instead of Vista, if they have to buy ready made PC's. And if you can't do that, help them buy a decent home-built PC that suits their needs.
Just get MS to change Vista to how it should be and have them remove all this nonsense from what could be a good OS. Only way to get them to do that is to simply make Vista a fiasco. They won't try to push a product on people if it won't make money, after all.
EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
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Alundiel
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:02:00 -
[2]
Well ya.... but what about DX10 its darned useful and requires vista
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Sul Sonic
Caldari
Mining Bytes Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:06:00 -
[3]
All I can say is that DX10 is a really convincing reason to get windows vista.
-no sig :( |
Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:08:00 -
[4]
Of course it's going to have problems for a while, it's brand new software.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Reiisha
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:08:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Alundiel
Well ya.... but what about DX10 its darned useful and requires vista
That's the point. Is it worth it having a game look good, but having an OS that requires you to buy stuff that limits what you can play? It will randomly restart your PC if it finds stuff that it doesn't like, and by the way it's programmed, that will happen a lot.
Imagine playing Crysis with 15 crashes per hour because the voltage in the graphics card went up by 0.001 for 20ms. Well, i guess Vista is worth it, right?
You can wait with DX10. There has been not a SINGLE screenshot or video of it yet. The FS10 screenshot was an artist impression, and EVERYTHING you've seen from Crysis is DX9.
EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
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Reiisha
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:09:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tribunal
Of course it's going to have problems for a while, it's brand new software.
That's not the actual problem. The problem is that Microsoft INTENDED those problems. Tehy won;t fix them. They aren't bugs. It's intended to do all those things.
EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
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Alundiel
Elite United Corp
Antigo Dominion
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:11:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Alundiel on 31/01/2007 06:07:49
Well I am running Windows XP X64 and my 7800s are dying and i didnt see any drivers for x64 for the new 8800gtx I got
Why would the voltage thing matter anyhow? I overclock way more than that and my cpu still is fine
---edit--
Intended? wat the *censored*.... why would they intend for it to crash more than ME?
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Reiisha
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Alundiel
Edited by: Alundiel on 31/01/2007 06:07:49
Well I am running Windows XP X64 and my 7800s are dying and i didnt see any drivers for x64 for the new 8800gtx I got
Why would the voltage thing matter anyhow? I overclock way more than that and my cpu still is fine
---edit--
Intended? wat the *censored*.... why would they intend for it to crash more than ME?
Because they are worried that Hollywood companies will not be happy if a couple of people watch their movies on a copied DVD. That's *all* it's for. Vista requires more than double of XP's system requirements because of just this, copy protection.
Imagine the protection system StarForce as an operating system, and then you know what Vista is like.
EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
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Alundiel
Elite United Corp
Antigo Dominion
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Alundiel
Edited by: Alundiel on 31/01/2007 06:07:49
Well I am running Windows XP X64 and my 7800s are dying and i didnt see any drivers for x64 for the new 8800gtx I got
Why would the voltage thing matter anyhow? I overclock way more than that and my cpu still is fine
---edit--
Intended? wat the *censored*.... why would they intend for it to crash more than ME?
Because they are worried that Hollywood companies will not be happy if a couple of people watch their movies on a copied DVD. That's *all* it's for. Vista requires more than double of XP's system requirements because of just this, copy protection.
Imagine the protection system StarForce as an operating system, and then you know what Vista is like.
I had some very bad experiences with starforce.....
besides I like copied dvds, not to illegally get for 'free' but to have as backups because, lets face it, optical discs get scratched to hell if you arent careful.
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Reiisha
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:18:00 -
[10]
Add to this that Vista only allows you to change your hardware a few times before you have to buy a new license. If your motherboard fries, you have to buy Vista again aswell... How stupid is that?
EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
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DarK
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.01.31 06:57:00 -
[11]
damn fascists.
Let's all go and get linux once xp is too out of date!
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mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.01.31 07:13:00 -
[12]
Edited by: mazzilliu on 31/01/2007 07:09:19
i hear so many horror stories, but it just doesn't make any business sense for microsoft to do that. next time microsoft should just put a brick in a software box and ship that, it makes a little more sense(put less effort into something equally as useful).
/me waits for vista hacks to make it usable 
GIVE ME BACK MY EXCLAMATION MARK PORTRAIT :( :( :( :( :( :( |
Reiisha
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 08:24:00 -
[13]
Microsoft is after the money mostly, that's no secret. I think they made a balance of what the media industry paid them and how much customers they'd lose and factor that in in the costs. Apparently they think they've been paid more to make Vista into a glorified, bugged DVD player than making it an actual OS. "Zeal" is the word that comes to mind, really.
The fact remains, MS botched it with this one. I wanted to give it a chance, i wanted to see DX10 in all it's glory. But really, the bad parts outweigh the only, slightly good part (after all, you need new hardware to use DX10 in the first place, and every game that's comming out for DX10 also has DX9 functionality).
I think this kind of stuff is what made the Vanguard devs go to Sony - Imagine Vanguard to be only playable on Vista. The problems the OS causes by far outweigh the bad reputation SOE has imho.
EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.01.31 08:41:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 31/01/2007 08:38:09
You might consider putting this link into the 1st post of the thread:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
An extensive and rather depressing analysis of things that could (and probably will) go wrong with Vista. The author is an experienced academic researcher, working on the design and analysis of cryptographic security architectures.
------
So you're lagged out in Motsu/Saila/Aramachi, but you want that CNR? Do missions for another corp! |
MrTriggerHappy
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 08:56:00 -
[15]
Edited by: MrTriggerHappy on 31/01/2007 08:54:06
Hmm yeah I have to concur with the OP..
The only thing I like about Vista is the pretty pictures of that AERO interface..its nice, seriously.
DX10.. well there's very few games at the moment which have it.. but again I really only play eve on the PC and for anything else.. I have my 360.
There's no real reason to upgrade, Microsoft are only out to please the fat cats at the media stuido's with DRM, which is fair enough. But the one thing that really worries me about it. is how they do it. Microsoft can actually turn off a bit of hardware if they find your using it for illegal use!
It may be nice and pretty.. but I can use Linux.. I do use linux and maybe one day Mac OSX wil go more main stream, so I have alternatives 
EDIT:
There already is a way to get Mac OSX onto your PC.. but its not without a "Song and Dance" routine, nor is it supported by mac..
The Image hoster removed my siggy.. it'll be back on the weekend!!
My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance |
Tajidan
Puppets on Steroids
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.31 09:15:00 -
[16]
"An apple a day, keeps windows away  "
No, seriously. The one and only reason why i use Windows, is to play EVE as well some other OldSchool games like DungeonKeeper, homeworld etc.
I dont even spend one second about thinking to go Vista, a)Too expensive b)i¦m fine with my XP on OSX MacPRo c)i have a natural aversion against everything where Microsoft has its Fingers in it.
For all the pure Windowsers i¦d recommend sticking with XP or better, buy a MAC
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Stitcher
Caldari
J.I.T. Enterprises
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.31 09:28:00 -
[17]
I have heard all the horror stories.
I have read a lot of articles.
I have weighed the pros and cons.
I will be installing Vista.
Why? Because whether or not it is buggy and whatnot right now is a moot issue. that's microsoft. I'm running on XP right now, and that's had some horrific bugs in it in its time.
Vista has a bunch of features I'm interested in and look forward to using. It has compatabilities I find interesting and meed the requirements for. IT will support DX10, and as a prospective designer of videogames myself this is an ESPECIALLY important point for me.
It won't be perfect. Nothing ever will. Still, that does not mean we should not move forward.
***
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Reiisha
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.31 11:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Stitcher
I have heard all the horror stories.
I have read a lot of articles.
I have weighed the pros and cons.
I will be installing Vista.
Why? Because whether or not it is buggy and whatnot right now is a moot issue. that's microsoft. I'm running on XP right now, and that's had some horrific bugs in it in its time.
Vista has a bunch of features I'm interested in and look forward to using. It has compatabilities I find interesting and meed the requirements for. IT will support DX10, and as a prospective designer of videogames myself this is an ESPECIALLY important point for me.
It won't be perfect. Nothing ever will. Still, that does not mean we should not move forward.
I'm not saying to never upgrade. I'm saying to not upgrade untill we get the option to turn off the stuff we don't want or need.
EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.31 11:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
You might consider putting this link into the 1st post of the thread:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
An extensive and rather depressing analysis of things that could (and probably will) go wrong with Vista. The author is an experienced academic researcher, working on the design and analysis of cryptographic security architectures.
I am quoting this again because if you can read and understand this and still want to use Vista, something is wrong with you.
-[23] Member-
EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Agamemnon Illearth
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Posted - 2007.01.31 11:49:00 -
[20]
:)
Your fighting a doomed battle here im afraid, there are a few features within Vista that i do not like. The amount of processes running 'can' be tunred off just as i strip XP of all its useless services i will be able to do the same with Vista.
Also they have changed the harsh licensing rights to Vista. Your motherboard blowing will not cost you another copy of Vista (like youll be buying it anyway)
For me it can be summed up as simple as.
DX10 = YEAH
DRM = BOO
Im not gonna get my panties in a twist (thats right panties) because it has features i dont like cos god only knows XP had more than its fair share too.
You all know youll be using it within the next three years anyway ;)
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.31 11:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Agamemnon Illearth
You all know youll be using it within the next three years anyway ;)
I am not using an operating system which locks me out of my own computer, ever.
If I do, it will be because I have hacked it completely and removed all such "protection."
-[23] Member-
EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Agnar Koladrov
Gallente
Hurricane Corporation
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Posted - 2007.01.31 11:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
You might consider putting this link into the 1st post of the thread:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
An extensive and rather depressing analysis of things that could (and probably will) go wrong with Vista. The author is an experienced academic researcher, working on the design and analysis of cryptographic security architectures.
I am quoting this again because if you can read and understand this and still want to use Vista, something is wrong with you.
Tell that to the man in the street. Those ppl will buy Vista because it looks and feels fresh and they don`t care about the rest, till it refuses to work and then come and complain to me the 'techy'.
People that know something about computers tend to think things over and weigh the concequences what a new OS brings. Thing is only a small percentage of the computer users are like this.
Few days ago we here in Holland had a news topic on the telly where they praised Vista new look and feel, where some well known designers and lifestyle people talked about how wonderfull Vista LOOKED. Even the chief graphical designer had a say, he is Dutch btw.
This really made me sick, it is fracking not about the looks of a fracking OS! But computers noobs will never get that, there is more to an OS then the looks.
________________________________________________
-- What a Revelation! --
Where was the creativty for speed/mass/etc when the tier2 Battlecruisers were designed? Why the same for each race BC? |
Davlos
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 11:57:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Davlos on 31/01/2007 11:55:01
During my eight-month stint as an intern for an IT company, I got the opportunity to **** around with lots of stuff, like tweaking the firmware of a spanking new Xbox360 to make it play copied Xbox360 games (HA HA stupid firmware didn't get signed while the rest of hardware code did), and lots of fooling around with Win2k3 ISA and, of course, those silly Longhorn beta builds.
For one thing though, I won't be bashing Micro$oft's programming department, because there are some really f*cking brilliant minds there. It's the moron producers who insist on several features (like the aforementioned 'security' and copy protection stuff) that increase the number of un-closeable processes immensely.
Micro$oft touted Vista as a spanking new amazing platform for game development. By the looks of it, it will only slow things down horrendously. I don't even know what those jokers were smoking when they were sitting down to figure out the features. And, yes, oh my god, what the hell is wrong with the graphics hardware requirement. Micro$oft were also touting Vista to be some ultimate office app OS. Er. Yeah, sure. I'm a CEO of a huge company that will shell out an extra grand per computer so that my systems can run that new OS, and also run the risk of extremely reduced productivity (due to employees installing and playing games) because the systems are damn well capable of doing it! And, oh! Yeah! That shiny new stacking windows feature view thingaling? Mac OS can do it without the idiotic hardware requirements too!
And to those who talk about having DX10 on Vista, there's already a way to install it on WinXP. ;) Just lots of fun registry tweaking to do.
---------------
Davlos Cain
040 |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2007.01.31 12:12:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 31/01/2007 12:13:22
I cant even say I like the new "look" of it.
It looks plasticky, gimmicky, and altogether unneccessary to me. I like the Windows Classic look, it does the job of being an OS fine, its not an art gallery ffs.
So no, I wont be buying it, not for a long long time. DRM is just a nightmare, solely designed to give the fat cats in the media business bigger pockets. About a year ago, IIRC the EU wanted the DRM removed from Vista, before it was put on sale. I'm guessing that they dropped that idea sadly. 
The potential for what DRM could become is simply just too great. I use a PC to run what I want to run on it, not so that I can run what Microsoft and Friends want me to run.
Originally by: Tisanta
i cry when i read your sig...
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Weebear
The Bowrey
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Posted - 2007.01.31 12:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Reiisha
Add to this that Vista only allows you to change your hardware a few times before you have to buy a new license. If your motherboard fries, you have to buy Vista again aswell... How stupid is that?
Surely it will just be the same as XP where you will need to activate by telephone if the hardware changes too many times, and not that you need to buy a new license? |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.01.31 13:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Davlos
And to those who talk about having DX10 on Vista, there's already a way to install it on WinXP. ;) Just lots of fun registry tweaking to do.
Elaborate?
----------
IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
GouldFish
Unscoped
Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.31 13:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Agamemnon Illearth
You all know youll be using it within the next three years anyway ;)
I am not using an operating system which locks me out of my own computer, ever.
If I do, it will be because I have hacked it completely and removed all such "protection."
Then stop using XP, because what is in Vista is extended version of what is already in XP.
These DRM (or content protection system as they call it) is only used and turned on when content protected media is displayed.
As for having to buy hardware to play the video, that false you can still play the video but it will not be at full resolution because the content providers has set out in there copy protection that anything over a set resoultion can only be played via HDMI with locked tocken.
So it's not MS's fault that you need to hardware it's the content makers. MS are trying to make the best of a bad situation and atleast giving the users a chance to play the video at all.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.31 13:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
No it won't, it its too different, it can't physically function with windows XP drivers n' stuff.
Microsoft wants you to believe, yes... 
-[23] Member-
EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 13:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: GouldFish
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Agamemnon Illearth
You all know youll be using it within the next three years anyway ;)
I am not using an operating system which locks me out of my own computer, ever.
If I do, it will be because I have hacked it completely and removed all such "protection."
Then stop using XP, because what is in Vista is extended version of what is already in XP.
No its not. XP has no kernel-level copy protection at all. All copy protection is within the programs themselves, which one can choose whether or not to use.
-[23] Member-
EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
GouldFish
Unscoped
Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.31 13:28:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: GouldFish
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Agamemnon Illearth
You all know youll be using it within the next three years anyway ;)
I am not using an operating system which locks me out of my own computer, ever.
If I do, it will be because I have hacked it completely and removed all such "protection."
Then stop using XP, because what is in Vista is extended version of what is already in XP.
No its not. XP has no kernel-level copy protection at all. All copy protection is within the programs themselves, which one can choose whether or not to use.
look into again, XP has a content protection system in place that is used for macrovision etc, which can already do things like turn of the SP/DIF connection.
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Reiisha
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.31 13:30:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Weebear
Originally by: Reiisha
Add to this that Vista only allows you to change your hardware a few times before you have to buy a new license. If your motherboard fries, you have to buy Vista again aswell... How stupid is that?
Surely it will just be the same as XP where you will need to activate by telephone if the hardware changes too many times, and not that you need to buy a new license?
You don't have to do that in XP. My PC has gone through about 3 pc's worth of hardware by now, i haven't been bothered by this for a single time, even though i never actually reinstalled the OS.
EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.31 13:33:00 -
[32]
Originally by: GouldFish
look into again, XP has a content protection system in place that is used for macrovision etc, which can already do things like turn of the SP/DIF connection.
That's not content protection; any program with kernel-level access (i.e. any program run with admin privileges) can do that on any operating system.
-[23] Member-
EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 13:35:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Crumplecorn
No it won't, it its too different, it can't physically function with windows XP drivers n' stuff.
Microsoft wants you to believe, yes...
Tell me how to get DX10 on then. Not that it'll do me any good on my current system, since it struggles a bit with DX9 games. But still, curiosity and cats and all that.
----------
IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 13:39:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Crumplecorn
No it won't, it its too different, it can't physically function with windows XP drivers n' stuff.
Microsoft wants you to believe, yes...
Tell me how to get DX10 on then. Not that it'll do me any good on my current system, since it struggles a bit with DX9 games. But still, curiosity and cats and all that.
Clearly I'm not enough of a hacker to know. The person who originally posted about the topic should tell us, though .
The WINE devs themselves have said they can have DX10 working on XP within 6 months if they work at it, so its not impossible.
-[23] Member-
EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 13:41:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Crumplecorn
No it won't, it its too different, it can't physically function with windows XP drivers n' stuff.
Microsoft wants you to believe, yes...
Tell me how to get DX10 on then. Not that it'll do me any good on my current system, since it struggles a bit with DX9 games. But still, curiosity and cats and all that.
Clearly I'm not enough of a hacker to know. The person who originally posted about the topic should tell us, though .
The WINE devs themselves have said they can have DX10 working on XP within 6 months if they work at it, so its not impossible.
\o/
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IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.01.31 14:14:00 -
[36]
Going to use XP until it's not possible anymore then switch to Linux (would do it now but I'm too lazy).
Vista treats the user too much like an enemy to be worth spending the cash on.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 14:24:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Going to use XP until it's not possible anymore then switch to Linux (would do it now but I'm too lazy).
Vista treats the user too much like an enemy to be worth spending the cash on.
If you put half as much work as it takes to get Linux working into hacking Vista, you could probably remove all the DRM *and* patch all the security vulnerabilities, and have time left over.
(kidding  )
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IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
MrTriggerHappy
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 14:30:00 -
[38]
*Gets out his Tin foil hat, his book of hacks, case of energy drink and a few packets of Salt and Vinegar crisps*
Back soon ppl.. we need the patch!!!
The Image hoster removed my siggy.. it'll be back on the weekend!!
My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance |
Benco97
Gallente
Multiverse Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 14:54:00 -
[39]
Time will tell.
"MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum |
Na'Thuul
Caldari
Sanguine Legion
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 15:34:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Davlos
Edited by: Davlos on 31/01/2007 11:55:01
For one thing though, I won't be bashing Micro$oft's programming department, because there are some really f*cking brilliant minds there. It's the moron producers who insist on several features (like the aforementioned 'security' and copy protection stuff) that increase the number of un-closeable processes immensely.
Quote:
Microsoft is only doing this because Hollywood/the music industry is forcing them to.
ôWe were only following ordersö has historically worked rather poorly as an excuse, and it doesn't work too well here either. While it's convenient to paint an industry that sues 12-year-old kids and 80- year-old grandmothers as the scapegoat, no-one's holding a gun to Microsoft's head to force them do this. The content industry is desperate to get its content onto PCs, and it would have been quite easy for Microsoft to say ôHere's what we'll do with Vista, take it or leave it. We won't seriously cripple our own and our business partners' products just to suit your whimsö. In other words they could make it clear to Hollywood who's the tail and who's the dog.
Here's an illustrative story about what can happen when the content- industry tail tries to wag the dog. About 10-15 years ago, music companies told a bunch of NZ TV stations that they had to pay fees in order to screen music videos. The TV stations disagreed, saying that they were providing free advertising for the music companies, and if they didn't like that then they'd simply stop playing music videos. So they stopped playing all music videos.
After a few weeks, *****s stated to appear as the music companies realised just how badly they needed the TV channels. One of the music companies bought an entire prime-time advertising block (at phenomenal cost, this wasn't a single 30-second slot but every slot in an entire prime-time ad break) just to play one single new music video.
Shortly afterwards, music videos reappeared on TV. The details of the settlement were never made public, but I imagine it consisted of a bunch of music company execs on their knees begging the TV stations to start playing music videos again and let's please never bring this matter up again.
It's the same with Microsoft, the content industry needs them as badly (or more badly) than Microsoft needs the content industry. Claiming that they're only following orders from Hollywood is a red herring ù if Microsoft declined to implement this stuff, Hollywood would have to give in because they can't afford to lock themselves out of 95% of the market, in the same way that the music companies couldn't afford to cut out their primary advertising channel.
---
[08:41:12] Nebulai > unless your offering me cheap pills, I don't see it
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Davlos
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 16:16:00 -
[41]
I can't divulge methods.
As bull**** as it may sound, I can't, and I'm not going to. I screw around with software/hardware out of pure curiosity, not to exploit it for personal gain. In fact, if I do, I'll get my ass sued to death. Just know that it can be done, if someone like me who doesn't have a life and can be bothered enough to screw around with such stuff.
Now to find a girlfriend. ;__;
---------------
Davlos Cain
040 |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 16:41:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Davlos
As bull**** as it may sound
Just an FYI, it sounds very bull****.
----------
IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Mtthias Clemi
Gallente
Infinitus Odium
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 16:42:00 -
[43]
DS... are you the owner of Apple... inventor of the ipod.. somone who old billy stole his ideas off as a kid... ?
why do you hate microsoft so much.. out of interest
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Petwraith (mods@ccpgames)
ok ok that was harsh, i dont hate mods.. as an apology the mod who shows the most wuv gets a free mercedes...
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 16:53:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mtthias Clemi
DS... are you the owner of Apple... inventor of the ipod.. somone who old billy stole his ideas off as a kid... ?
why do you hate microsoft so much.. out of interest
I don't like Apple, nor do I own any of their products.
I don't like Microsoft because they've spent the last decade being the worst, most anti-competitive company in the entire world. They've easily beat out Sony and Electronic Arts for sheer suck.
-[23] Member-
EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Mtthias Clemi
Gallente
Infinitus Odium
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 18:14:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Mtthias Clemi
DS... are you the owner of Apple... inventor of the ipod.. somone who old billy stole his ideas off as a kid... ?
why do you hate microsoft so much.. out of interest
I don't like Apple, nor do I own any of their products.
I don't like Microsoft because they've spent the last decade being the worst, most anti-competitive company in the entire world. They've easily beat out Sony and Electronic Arts for sheer suck.
Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood i hate apple too :), maybe thats why i dont mind microsoft.. either way ive never had any trouble with microsoft products.. they which you fight against windows reminds me of me trying to convince my mates not to buy ipods...
either way bill gates lets me stream movies pictures and music onto ym 42inch tv wirelessly with no lag and less than a seconds loading time! SO IM HAPPY. im going to get vista either way..
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Petwraith (mods@ccpgames)
ok ok that was harsh, i dont hate mods.. as an apology the mod who shows the most wuv gets a free mercedes...
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Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 19:52:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Mtthias Clemi
Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood i hate apple too :), maybe thats why i dont mind microsoft..
Why? Apple spent the mid-'80s to the late-'90s being nothing more than a free R&D house for Microsoft.
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Xelios
Minmatar
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 19:58:00 -
[47]
I'll wait for DX10 to be ported to XP. It may take 6 months, it may take 2 years, but it'll happen eventually. There's really nothing in Vista that would make me switch, and too many things that make me not want to switch.
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SengH
Black Omega Security
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 20:04:00 -
[48]
testing vista buisness off MSDNAA and by far the biggest benfit has to be the 3d accelerated desktop. EVE + alpha overlay = a horrendous amount of lag in XP. In vista its gone TOTALLY. Running 4 videos on the same screen as vista without the system chugging is like a breath of fresh air.
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Ikvar
I WILL ROCK YOUR FACE
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Posted - 2007.01.31 20:21:00 -
[49]
I laugh at anyone who buys an operating system this close to its launch date.
Originally by: Rekindle
I was in an empire system when they used their grief tactics to explode everything I own.
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Dr Shameless
Skull Soft
The Sundering
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 21:23:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Dr Shameless on 31/01/2007 21:19:20
i hope that Vista will be the nail in the coffin for Windows and that it will put free open source operating systems in the foreground
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Ikvar
I WILL ROCK YOUR FACE
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 21:43:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Dr Shameless
Edited by: Dr Shameless on 31/01/2007 21:19:20
i hope that Vista will be the nail in the coffin for Windows and that it will put free open source operating systems in the foreground
It won't be though. Also anyone who really likes open source OSes is fat.
Originally by: Rekindle
I was in an empire system when they used their grief tactics to explode everything I own.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 21:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
If you put half as much work as it takes to get Linux working into hacking Vista, you could probably remove all the DRM *and* patch all the security vulnerabilities, and have time left over.
(kidding )
You'd probably also have enough time to get beryl setup and tweaked to your liking. Then the problem is that when you're bored and need to be doing work you can play with your windows and window manager. (for example, super-F3 is snow) and shift-f9 is rain)
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Lithalnas
Amarr
Hadean Drive Yards
Archaean Cooperative
|
Posted - 2007.01.31 22:03:00 -
[53]
I look at vista and i see 3 things.
"you want me to pay server OS pirces for the Vista Uber package that doesn't have any server/dev stuff?"
"wait you mean to tell me i cant run this because its not authenticated from MS?"
"Dx10 is the greatest thing ever11111111, sad there are no games for it and linux will probably spoof something for dx10 games in under 6 months"
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Midshipman Lithalnas - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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DarkMatter
Amarr
Mineral Aquisition Group
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 00:05:00 -
[54]
I ******* hate Bill Gates and his lame ass company...
If there was any competition for OS', his company would be scewed, his OS' are confronational to the user at best...
Building the homestead |
Cuebick
Caldari
The Collective
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 00:28:00 -
[55]
I just got Windows Vista Home Edtition something something Student Edition (And a little extra cheap) and maybe I might just video tape me installing vista for you all harcore guys out there
stop fudging with my sig :( |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 00:32:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Cuebick
I just got Windows Vista Home Edtition something something Student Edition (And a little extra cheap) and maybe I might just video tape me installing vista for you all harcore guys out there
/waits for the inevitable red screen of death...
-[23] Member-
EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Kata Dakini
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 04:01:00 -
[57]
M$ line of thought:
Computers are getting too fast, let's make sure Vista is more resource intensive. Otherwise, Dell, Intel and AMD will be upset that nobody wants to buy faster processors.
Xbox is our baby. All those silly PC gamers are a headache. We wish they would just buy an Xbox. That way we can help keep the major game publishers happy in that they can spend even less time on developing/porting to PC. Besides, the Xbox is going to be the center of the home entertainment system anyway.
IPTV is coming soon. We will be able to make people think they need Vista in order to have IPTV. If we ensure they also need a new TV as well, Dell will be happy.
We've had it with piracy. Let's make sure that users will be scared to do things we don't want them to.
:end M$ thought barrage.
Unfortunately for the PC enthusiasts, we are the minority, and most home PC users are lemmings who do what they're told. From what I see in Vista, there are no features that entice me. I could care less about DX10. M$ is using DX10 the same way they used USB 2.0 with XP.
We all know that most people using PCs are doing nothing more than surfing the web, printing digital camera snapshots of their kids, and running office apps.
As I previously mentioned, these users will simply do what they're told by people like US. In the last two days, I've had a lot of people ask me what I think of Vista, if I was eager to buy it, etc. I've told every single one of them that I will probably never install it and I give them the reasons why (DRM, licensing, cost).
The ONLY reason I would ever want to have Vista installed is for gaming. I grew up with PC gaming, from playing Frogger and Montezuma's Revenge on my 286, to playing EVE, Madden, and some RPG's today. I feel that I am a good representation of a very distinct demographic. People that are older than me generally don't play PC games. People that are younger than me don't play PC games. These people either don't play games, or they play games on consoles. Heck, I'm pretty much the ONLY person of all the friends I've ever had that plays PC games. I'm sure many of you can relate.
I also tell people that ask me questions that my next computer will be built to run Linux. It can do everything a Windows box can do (more in some cases, less in others), and it doesn't come with any guilt. As much as I try to convince them that their lives will continue with Linux instead, I get the impression that they simply don't trust it, even if they really really want to.
So I have come to the very obvious conclusion that in order for Linux to succeed, it needs an ambassador. It needs a SALESPERSON.
So this is becoming, more and more each day, my third job. I am in a very unique position, where I have some pretty significant technical influence over organizations with money to spend and problems to solve.
I think, firstly, what Linux needs is brand recognition. Without this, the average consumer simply doesn't know it exists, or doesn't care.
Ipod
Google
Playstation
etc.
These are all recognizable names to everyone. My grandmother who can't even figure out how to turn a computer on knows what each of those are. This is what Linux needs.
I'm not the one to decide what name that is, however. Will it be Ubuntu? Debain? Linux? Who knows, but one single name will have to come to the forefront of the trademark parade in order for things to change.
For more enjoyment and greater efficiency, consumption is being standardized.
|
Boonaki
Caldari
Suffoco Noctis
Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 08:46:00 -
[58]
An indication of the level of complexity added to the software can be seen by looking at a block diagram of Vista's Media Interoperability Gateway (MIG). Of the eleven components that make up the MIG, only two (the audio and video decoders) are actually used to render content. The remaining nine are used to apply content-protection measures.
Fear the Ibis of doom!
113 |
Siobhan Ni
Gallente
Infinitus Odium
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 09:24:00 -
[59]
Well I installed Vista over the weekend. Looks great and appears to be running very fast - although I do have a highly specced machine. Kinda funny watching all the kiddies using the '$' symbol to replace all the s characters in anything that is microsoft related
I'd recommend that people at least try it before critisiing it - gives you a more balanced opinion. And this is coming from someone that has been using Linux for at least 12 years now
HD DVD's are slightly reduced to the quality of normal DVDs, big deal. I didn't buy my computer to watch dvds...
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 11:12:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Siobhan Ni
Well I installed Vista over the weekend. Looks great and appears to be running very fast - although I do have a highly specced machine. Kinda funny watching all the kiddies using the '$' symbol to replace all the s characters in anything that is microsoft related
I'd recommend that people at least try it before critisiing it - gives you a more balanced opinion. And this is coming from someone that has been using Linux for at least 12 years now
HD DVD's are slightly reduced to the quality of normal DVDs, big deal. I didn't buy my computer to watch dvds...
Read the rest of the link posted above.
Microsoft has designed Vista from the ground up to steal your computer from you.
-[23] Member-
EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Jon Hawkes
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 11:33:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
You might consider putting this link into the 1st post of the thread:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
An extensive and rather depressing analysis of things that could (and probably will) go wrong with Vista. The author is an experienced academic researcher, working on the design and analysis of cryptographic security architectures.
I am quoting this again because if you can read and understand this and still want to use Vista, something is wrong with you.
I can't quite work out if that part about Denial-of-Service via Driver/Device Revocation is either suicidally insane, or evil genius.
From what I see, it's going down the road of tying users into certain manufacturers' products based on Microsoft's driver certification.
I was looking forward to DirectX 10, but with all the "features" I have seen on Vista, I will not be touching it until at least Service Pack 1 and until Microsoft give the user more control over drivers, processes and DRM.
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Siobhan Ni
Gallente
Infinitus Odium
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 12:11:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Read the rest of the link posted above.
Microsoft has designed Vista from the ground up to steal your computer from you.
*yawn*
I prefer to give something a go and form my own opinions rather than be led by the nose. Vista fine for me. Runs very fast. My computer hasn't been stolen and the devil isn't looking for my soul either. If you don't like then don't buy it, simple as that, it's not as if they are forcing it upon you; there's plenty of other choices.
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Invader Skooge
Minmatar
Dopehead Industries
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 12:22:00 -
[63]
ok i have vista ultimate...and so far i havent had any problems, ive done all the things i used to do on XP without problem...and most of them i have done alot quicker
and how come everyone can manage to say vista is rubbish from what they have read up on? has only one person actually tested it and every1 else read up on the reading up on the reading up?
Try it for yourself dont go by other people all the time
_______________________________________________
-Behind This Mask There Is More Than Flesh, Behind This Mask Is An Idea Mr. Creedy...And Ideas Are Bulletproof- |
Callistus
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 13:09:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Reiisha
That's the point. Is it worth it having a game look good, but having an OS that requires you to buy stuff that limits what you can play? It will randomly restart your PC if it finds stuff that it doesn't like, and by the way it's programmed, that will happen a lot.
Imagine playing Crysis with 15 crashes per hour because the voltage in the graphics card went up by 0.001 for 20ms. Well, i guess Vista is worth it, right?
There's a serious amount of BS in this thread. What exactly are you basing these claims on? I've been gaming on Vista for some time now and not had a single unexplained crash. In my experience so far Vista is more stable than XP, and I'm still running RC2, not even the final release.
Originally by: Reiisha
Add to this that Vista only allows you to change your hardware a few times before you have to buy a new license. If your motherboard fries, you have to buy Vista again aswell... How stupid is that?
Wrong again. The retail licence allows you to upgrade your hardware and reinstall Vista as many times as you like. Only the OEM version is tied to a specific computer.
Originally by: Reiisha
1. Vista will eventually require you to get new hardware, since the 'old' hardware (anything below a GeForce 7xxx/Radeon x1xxx for example) won't be able to pass Vista's 'protection' standards. In other words, you've being forced to buy hardware that some might not even use.
Got a link for this?
Originally by: Reiisha
2. Vista will run a lot of processes that, by the looks of it, can't be turned off. Which results on drastically decreased performance in all areas. Vista actually requires a lot of resources to insure that nothing happens - Yes, you read that right!
Vista's performance is not "drastically decreased in all areas", I suggest you actually try it before making such sweeping statements.
Originally by: Reiisha
3. Microsoft has gone nuts and has turned a reasonably stable and adjustable OS into a monstrosity that can only be used to play media that don't even exist yet, and even then it runs catastrophically bad.
Again, what?
I'm no fanboy and Vista is far from perfect, but it seems very clear that the majority of people in this thread have never tried Vista and are just rehashing the same old horror stories.
--------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 13:22:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Callistus
I'm no fanboy and Vista is far from perfect, but it seems very clear that the majority of people in this thread have never tried Vista and are just rehashing the same old horror stories.
The entire point of Vista is so that Microsoft can push monopolistic DRM and control on you (to the point where you can only use specific drivers that they allow you to use, and so on) under the guise of a seemingly fine operating system.
If the operating system was on the surface really bad, nobody would buy it, so their plans wouldn't work.
-[23] Member-
EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
SavageThrash
Kemono.
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 14:54:00 -
[66]
The day will come when everyone buys vista. Thats the truth of it all. You may not buy it for 6 months, a year of even 2 years but once your new programs lose support for xp and vista is the only way to go then it will be the new baseline os and microsoft knows that and all the software company's know that. A few of you may switch to linux but wouldn't it be more hassle to get some windows specfic program to work on it?
They may also port dx10 to xp for those die hard people that refuse to update to vista but personally i have had enough of the half assed somewhat working modifications and buggy systems. I would rather just suck it up now and buy it even if i don't install it straight away.
my sig lies
|
Logi3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 15:06:00 -
[67]
I love the MS haters. Pure blinded hate for MS
I read two threads from this topic. The OP and Callistus post.
Anyway, i got a copy of Prem 64bit Vista. Should be here by now but seems City Link dragging there feet with my delivery. Got a legit copy free. Although its OEM. I've read many storys on Vista before i accepted my copy. Its either love it or hate it. And the people hating it dont EVEN OWN A COPY. The people who love it HAVE ACTULY A COPY OF IT.
Unless you have used it, have it or own it you have no right to post IMO. I'm reserving my judgement untill i try it. Going to dual boot as i have a spare HD in my system doing nothing. If its ****, dont work, games are slow etc etc. I will keep on with XP.
I understand driver support for the 64bit is not great, but i have read that the drivers supplied do the job. Anyone have comments regarding the drivers for 64bit platform
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil p.s. I love you([email protected]) |
Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 15:13:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Siobhan Ni
I prefer to give something a go and form my own opinions rather than be led by the nose.
The reasonings of the paper are based on sound facts. Hardware design will get more complex as a result of Vista DRM measures, and that cost will be transfered to the consumer. It is also a fact that unbreakable DRM would need to break the laws of Physics--the best you can hope for is to make it complex enough to slow down those trying to break it.
Which Microsoft has apparently been unable to do, as it appears that Vista's DRM is already broken. In other words, you have a highly complex system inflicted on the consumer that will greatly increase hardware complexity and has already failed to meet its orginal design goals.
Quote:
Vista fine for me. Runs very fast. My computer hasn't been stolen and the devil isn't looking for my soul either.
Break it down into a cost/benefit ratio:
Costs:
--Whatever the direct monetary retail cost of the OS is.
--DRM, which directly inflicts real costs (e.g. hardware complexity) on consumers, even if they're not "pirates".
--Slower. Even if it's fast enough for you, all that encryption will slow you down, and the additional system services in Vista compared to XP will also slow it down. XP already had too many services.
Benefits:
--DX10. Looks very pretty and should be faster than previous DX versions.
--Hardware accelerated 3d desktop. While many see this as a cost, there are real UI advantages to using an accelerated desktop, which OSX has shown for a while.
For me, those benefits are not worth the costs. If the WINE thing works out, we'll have DX10 on XP anyway.
Quote:
If you don't like then don't buy it, simple as that, it's not as if they are forcing it upon you; there's plenty of other choices.
I won't be buying it. I also have a right to advocate that other's not buy it, too. I don't have a right to swat the Vista box out of their hand when they try to buy it at the store.
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Logi3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 15:16:00 -
[69]
Why cant more people reply like the likes of Frezik
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil p.s. I love you([email protected]) |
Psymon R
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 15:17:00 -
[70]
I'm going to wait a bit and see with vista, and may well buy an oem version if I get round to upgrading my PC (which I've been planning on doing for ages)...
When I do get round to installing it I'll be setting up a dual boot system with either XP or linux however...
This story on the BBC News website's amused me though, if a Vista computer is set up in a specific way a malicious audio file could be used to delete files etc via the voice recognition...
Story
Though tbh, if you're using voice recognition and listening to audio files at the same time, the computer is hardly likely (I would have thought) to be set up so the microphone can listen to the speakers...
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Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 15:19:00 -
[71]
Should just link my old posts on this.
I am running Vista x64 Enterprise. I do have a high spec dual core machine. Vista runs fine. Eve runs fine. Everything works fine. UAC is annoying but can be turned off. It found all my drivers. No Lunix distro has managed that on any PC i tried them on. VISTA updated my NVIDIA driver automatically with the latest version. Only one program I have loaded thus far has failed to work.
That is my experience. If you haven't used it please be quiet.
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MrTriggerHappy
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 15:20:00 -
[72]
Originally by: SavageThrash
The day will come when everyone buys vista. Thats the truth of it all. You may not buy it for 6 months, a year of even 2 years but once your new programs lose support for xp and vista is the only way to go then it will be the new baseline os and microsoft knows that and all the software company's know that. A few of you may switch to linux but wouldn't it be more hassle to get some windows specfic program to work on it?
Wrong, I will never need to buy Vista, if new releases of the programs come out and I need vista to use them.. well essentially I wont. If I dont want the supposed "Hassle" of getting programs to work on linux.. I have one option left to which virtually can do everything except play eve.
What is this option, you may ask?
It's called a mac! Actually there's a way you can install Mac OSX onto an X86 platform.. google for it!
--------------------------------
The Image hoster removed my siggy.. it'll be back on the weekend!!
My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance |
Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 15:22:00 -
[73]
oh and it boots faster than XP which runs on the same system
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Xelios
Minmatar
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 15:23:00 -
[74]
Well look, Vista is not Windows ME. It's a good, stable OS, exactly like XP is. In fact, it's just XP repackaged with some fancy new features you'll grow tired of pretty quickly. The problem is they packaged it with a ton of DRM, "security features" that many people don't want and an attitude that says "we know what's best for your computer, so just leave the important stuff to us, that's an order." A lot of people don't want an OS that governs what they can and can't do with their computer, they want something that will run applications, end of story. That's all an OS is supposed to do, run applications. Not tell you what you can and can't run, deliberatly disable features because you didn't spend $1000 on new hardware, automatically delete things it decides are 'unwanted' and phone home every now and then to make sure you haven't done something it doesn't agree with.
A lot of people don't care about that stuff, and to them Vista will be just fine. Other people have a real problem with where this 'content management' stuff is heading, and they'll fight it every step of the way. If that means tinkering with a modded version of DX10 to get it working properly on XP then so be it.
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Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 15:29:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: Reiisha
1. Vista will eventually require you to get new hardware, since the 'old' hardware (anything below a GeForce 7xxx/Radeon x1xxx for example) won't be able to pass Vista's 'protection' standards. In other words, you've being forced to buy hardware that some might not even use.
Got a link for this?
How about one from Microsoft's site (powerpoint link). The basic summary:
--DRM involves encryption, which takes up CPU cycles. This will slow down the system.
--Development costs of hardware is greatly increased. This cost must be passed on to the consumer.
This additional cost is there to support a DRM system that is already broken.
Quote:
Vista's performance is not "drastically decreased in all areas", I suggest you actually try it before making such sweeping statements.
How do you do all that encryption without taking up CPU cycles? Current off-the-shelf retail computers do not have any sort of hardware encryption. Adding one would further increase hardware costs.
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Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 15:39:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych
That is my experience. If you haven't used it please be quiet.
I don't need to use it to see how the DRM implementation makes the whole deal fundamentally flawed. I also don't need to use it to see that there are few benefits to using it over XP.
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych
oh and it boots faster than XP which runs on the same system
All Windows versions tend to be fast on startup when you're dealing with a newly installed system. They slow down as more crud gets installed. Windows has always handled entropy buildup very poorly.
You can't compare a new Vista installation and compare it to a two-year-old XP installation. Wait till Vista has had time for entropy to set in. Maybe it will still be faster, maybe it won't, but you can't say right now.
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MrTriggerHappy
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 15:41:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Frezik
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych
That is my experience. If you haven't used it please be quiet.
I don't need to use it to see how the DRM implementation makes the whole deal fundamentally flawed. I also don't need to use it to see that there are few benefits to using it over XP.
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych
oh and it boots faster than XP which runs on the same system
All Windows versions tend to be fast on startup when you're dealing with a newly installed system. They slow down as more crud gets installed. Windows has always handled entropy buildup very poorly.
You can't compare a new Vista installation and compare it to a two-year-old XP installation. Wait till Vista has had time for entropy to set in. Maybe it will still be faster, maybe it won't, but you can't say right now.
Yup, dont forget the number of patches XP has had over the years, this means more and more stuff for XP to start up and gradually decreases performance. Eventually the same will happen with Vista.
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The Image hoster removed my siggy.. it'll be back on the weekend!!
My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance |
StarLite
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 18:21:00 -
[78]
I've been running Vista for a couple of weeks now and it is a nice skin for XP.
MS have managed to move EVERY SINGLE feature in the O/S to another place, every link, button etc has been moved for "enhanced user friendlyness".
Aero Glass looks smooth, runs smooth and seems to be quite ok [I can run EvE windowed without a framedrop even with aero glass on].
UAC is downright extremely irritating, so I disabled it right off the bat, with it enabled it will ask you to confirm EVERYTHING and ANYTHING :/
The idea behind UAC is good, running everything in limited user mode, but it has far overshot it's goal. After a week, no-one will ever read the messages anymore and always click yes to everything, because they are getting annoyed by the everlasting presence of the UAC popups.
The search everywhere stuff seems to be handy from what I heard, you just type in "defrag" in the start menu and it will start disk defragmenter. it doesn't find everything but it's a nice feature tho.
Drivers is still a mess, alt-tabbing from a fullscreen game or coming out of standby mode will crash the videocard driver forcing a reboot, theres no drivers for my soundcard, all drivers that exist so far are still beta. if you are looking for a stable O/S do not switch yet, but wait for drivers to become ready and stable.
The main reason that made me run Vista is that drivers run in user-mode instead of kernel-mode, so a crashing driver won't crash the O/S. So far all driver crashes rebooted the PC, gave a BSOD or made vista totally go **** up so that feature doesn't work at all yet.
Also, you will STILL have to reboot for all windows updates, no matter how tiny, stupid or insignificant the changes are.
For me vista is just as stable as XP [not counting driver crashes], it will crash at the same problems, will not recover faster or prevent more crashes.
All in all, it is a nice looking O/S and as soon as all drivers are ready in a couple of months it will be a decent O/S. It does NOT deserve, however, the NT6.0 version, it is just a nice skin for XP and really is NT5.2. Even with the new interface and all, it feels like XP with a nice looking skin.
I have not regretted upgrading from XP, but DO NOT upgrade if you don't want any problems or want to upgrade drivers every week.
_______________________________________________________________________
This sig is guarded by SigGuard(c) |
Callistus
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 18:22:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Frezik
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: Reiisha
1. Vista will eventually require you to get new hardware, since the 'old' hardware (anything below a GeForce 7xxx/Radeon x1xxx for example) won't be able to pass Vista's 'protection' standards. In other words, you've being forced to buy hardware that some might not even use.
Got a link for this?
How about one from Microsoft's site (powerpoint link). The basic summary:
--DRM involves encryption, which takes up CPU cycles. This will slow down the system.
--Development costs of hardware is greatly increased. This cost must be passed on to the consumer.
This additional cost is there to support a DRM system that is already broken.
My request for a link was directed at the statement that older hardware (e.g. graphics cards) wouldn't pass Vista's protection standards, thus forcing people to upgrade. Not sure what relation that has to DRM taking up cpu cycles and increasing hardware costs.
Originally by: Frezik
Quote:
Vista's performance is not "drastically decreased in all areas", I suggest you actually try it before making such sweeping statements.
How do you do all that encryption without taking up CPU cycles? Current off-the-shelf retail computers do not have any sort of hardware encryption. Adding one would further increase hardware costs.
I never refered to hardware costs, the original quote said performance in Vista was "drastically decreased in all areas". From my own experience Vista is no slower or less responsive than XP, or at least not noticibly so. Of course the encryption takes up cpu cycles but I haven't noticed any ill effects, certainly not to the extent the OP suggested.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Benco97
Gallente
Multiverse Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 18:48:00 -
[80]
i'm tired of this.. all you people who want to use Vista, Use it, all you people who want to free the minds of those being controlled by the mega-corp/devil, give it up and go use linux, that way, when vista falls through you can all be quite happy and smug that you were right, until then however your Vista bashing is extremely annoying.
Vista, it works, what more do I want?
"MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum |
Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 19:06:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Callistus
My request for a link was directed at the statement that older hardware (e.g. graphics cards) wouldn't pass Vista's protection standards, thus forcing people to upgrade. Not sure what relation that has to DRM taking up cpu cycles and increasing hardware costs.
DRM is implemented with cryptographic schemes. Between the media application and the monitor, Vista will probably encrypt and decrypt the data several times. That takes up CPU cycles. If you have a multi-core CPU and are running non-parallelized applications, it could well be that the encryption and other Vista overhead is running on one core while your application is running on another. If this is the case, then you'll start seeing a slowdown when trying parallelized applications (which there will be more of over time, since multi-core CPUs are becoming more standard).
(There's another reason why you might not have seen a big performance drop yet--see below.)
Hardware costs increase because DRM adds an extra design requirement on hardware companies. For instance, if you look at a the "value edition" of many video cards, you may see empty spots in the PCB where another chip could go, or another i/o connector, or more memory, and so on. The more expensive version fills those spots in. This means they design one card, have one assembly line process, and just don't put in the extras on some of the boards. This saves them money, which can be passed on the consumer.
With the requirements Microsoft is forcing on hardware companies, that model no longer works. Those extra spots on the PCB are potential data paths, which could be used to get at the unencrypted data. This means they need to design two cards, and have seperate assembly line processes. This rises costs, which are passed on to the consumer.
Also, any PCB traces that carry unencrypted data must be as short as possible, since shorter paths are harder to analyze. This makes the hardware that much more difficult to design, further increasing costs.
Older hardware doesn't meet Microsoft's requirements. This doesn't necessarily mean it will stop working, but you won't be able to play your hi-def content at its full capabilities.
Quote:
I never refered to hardware costs, the original quote said performance in Vista was "drastically decreased in all areas". From my own experience Vista is no slower or less responsive than XP, or at least not noticibly so. Of course the encryption takes up cpu cycles but I haven't noticed any ill effects, certainly not to the extent the OP suggested.
You may not have been affected yet. IIRC, Vista will only start requiring the encryption in the AV stream after you try to play protected content. Unless you have a next-gen DVD player on your computer, you probably haven't encountered any such content yet.
What still hasn't been answered is what does Vista give me over XP? The initial retail cost alone would be enough for me to ignore Vista for now, and the DRM will be a continuing headache. DX10 and a hardware accelerated desktop are not sufficient to overcome those problems (IMHO; you can make up your own mind). Many of the potentially interesting features of Vista (like a database-oriented filesystem) were cut out during its long development period. Few benefits remain.
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Nira Li
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.01 19:19:00 -
[82]
If you don't want all the mumbo jumbo get the home basic version or don't use it at all. Microsoft will never change so not much you can do about it, a few 1000 geeks can't change them.
I'm trying out Vista Ultimate atm and it works pretty good except for gaming, if I play eve in windows mode and use IE at the same time I get a 50% fps drop thx to the Aero ****.
If you are just going to use a HTPC then Vista is really nice.
You Will Cry My Name
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Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 19:24:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Nira Li
If you don't want all the mumbo jumbo get the home basic version or don't use it at all.
Eh? Basic version still has DRM, which is Vista's single biggest problem. Even if it didn't, hardware manufacturers would still have to increase their design costs for the other Vista versions.
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Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 19:28:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Benco97
i'm tired of this.. all you people who want to use Vista, Use it, all you people who want to free the minds of those being controlled by the mega-corp/devil, give it up and go use linux, that way, when vista falls through you can all be quite happy and smug that you were right, until then however your Vista bashing is extremely annoying.
Vista, it works, what more do I want?
I can't just ignore Vista. The hardware cost increases will still affect me even if I only ever use XP, Linux, or maybe even OSX.
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Kata Dakini
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Posted - 2007.02.01 20:06:00 -
[85]
The simple concept of increased hardware development seems to me to be the most disturbing thing about Vista.
How is this going to affect development cycles? Essentially, Microsoft is putting a chokehold on hardware developers, forcing them to choose either:
A: Continue developing Windows hardware. Accept the increased development costs/time. Retain privilege of selling hardware to the largest group of users.
B: Continue developing Windows hardware while simultaneously developing other "generic" hardware (which will be run on Linux or whatever else that comes along). This appeals to everyone, but obviously incurs the most significant development cost. Not realistic for many smaller hardware vendors.
C: Choose not to cater to M$ and eventually get put out of business. There is also the possibility that M$ will go into acquisition mode with all that extra cash they've been sitting on. With many hardware vendors struggling, they will be prime targets for M$ and eventually get taken over.
D: Start selling bicycles.
For more enjoyment and greater efficiency, consumption is being standardized.
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Constantine Arcanum
Gallente
IMPERIAL SENATE
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.02.01 20:31:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Alundiel
Well ya.... but what about DX10 its darned useful and requires vista
That's the point. Is it worth it having a game look good, but having an OS that requires you to buy stuff that limits what you can play? It will randomly restart your PC if it finds stuff that it doesn't like, and by the way it's programmed, that will happen a lot.
Imagine playing Crysis with 15 crashes per hour because the voltage in the graphics card went up by 0.001 for 20ms. Well, i guess Vista is worth it, right?
You can wait with DX10. There has been not a SINGLE screenshot or video of it yet. The FS10 screenshot was an artist impression, and EVERYTHING you've seen from Crysis is DX9.
apparently DX10 will be backwards compatible with XP.
I helped - Cortes
What a shiny and lovely place here - Eshtir
Well lets make it a party atleast :D -Xorus
RAWWWR!11!!1!2 SIG HIJACK!!11!1
I found it first, get orrrfff moiiii laaannnd - Cortes |
Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 20:31:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Kata Dakini
There is also the possibility that M$ will go into acquisition mode with all that extra cash they've been sitting on.
Unlikely as long as Ballmer is CEO. Ballmer doesn't like Microsoft buying large companies. Rather, he prefers to buy smaller companies with good ideas and absorb them into current Microsoft projects. This is so common that "get bought by Microsoft" is a workable business plan for many Silicon Valley startups.
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Letri Bimmet
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.01 20:41:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Letri Bimmet on 01/02/2007 20:40:54
Didn't everyone (and by everyone I mean the so called 'windows haters') say the same stuff about XP when that came out?
Some peeps in this thread see a conspiracy in vista...next thing someone will announce that Bill Gates will be using vista to brainwash and *****your bunghole wile surfing the web.
Oh...and don't forget the bunnies...they're in on it too
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Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 21:25:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Letri Bimmet
Edited by: Letri Bimmet on 01/02/2007 20:40:54
Didn't everyone (and by everyone I mean the so called 'windows haters') say the same stuff about XP when that came out?
XP didn't offer all that much over Win2k, either. The only reason I use it now is that it's generally easier to get support (for both hardware and software) for XP than Win2k, and I'm often asked by friends about how to do something on XP, and I'd like to be able to give them an answer. I fully expect that I'll eventually get sucked into Vista this way eventually, but if these factors didn't exist, I'd still be in a Win2k for all my gaming needs. (My specific situation allows me to ignore Windows for almost all work-related needs).
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2007.02.01 21:38:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Microsoft has designed Vista from the ground up to steal your computer from you.
TBH I don't understand by what you mean by that, yeah they have stupid stuff in there to stop you accessing some files which you can turn off, but after 2-3 weeks of "playing with" the beta release's and the downloaded timer stoped RTM release, i'm now running 64x Vista ult legal version and have 100% access to everything, some things i use run faster under vista, the process's on mine anyways are less but do use more ram (no biggy there with 2gb)
For less tecnicaly minded people i can see how vista can be a damn nightmare but a little research and you can turn off everything smeggy that microballs has put in there.
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Welcome to the best slideshow on Earth! |
Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 21:52:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Microsoft has designed Vista from the ground up to steal your computer from you.
TBH I don't understand by what you mean by that, yeah they have stupid stuff in there to stop you accessing some files which you can turn off . . .
He refers to DRM, which is there to stop you from doing things the media companies don't like. There isn't a lot of media out there yet that take advantage of this DRM. The next-gen DVD formats are about it at the moment. So it's possible you just haven't seen the problems yet.
Make no mistake: the design requirements for a DRM system are impossible to achieve. The best you can hope for is to make the process of breaking it too hard to bother with. But DRM makes the whole system more problematic for all other uses.
A much better model is iTunes, where media is cheep enough and convient enough to buy that people don't bother trying to download it elsewhere. Mind you, iTunes does have DRM, but it's been broken for a while, and is more geared twards forcing you to using the media on an iPod rather than another MP3 player. I don't particularly like that either, but the business model could work without DRM.
Quote:
For less tecnicaly minded people i can see how vista can be a damn nightmare but a little research and you can turn off everything smeggy that microballs has put in there.
If only technically-minded people can do it, why not have them jump on Linux? My Grandma could never compiler her own kernel, but she'd be no good at fooling with the Windows registry, either.
Linux may or may not be difficult to get working, but if it takes a technical person tweak Windows, too, than that's not a valid reason against Linux.
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Armored
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 22:04:00 -
[92]
I have Windows Vista Ultimate. Not a single problem has occured, the Dreamscene is nice (i have the Eve trailer as my full motion background) and furthermore I enjoy all the new eyecandy such as the glass aura's. DirectX 10 is going to be fantastic with the new Eve to be released (this version will be known as Eve Classic). If you are thinking of getting Vista, get the Ultimate.
P4 2.8
1 Gig 533 ram (soon to be 2)
Radeon X1950 GT ($150 on sale)
SoundBlaster Audigy.
With these modest specs, my system runs flawlessly.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
LuthorCorp Combat Division
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 22:43:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Frezik
If only technically-minded people can do it, why not have them jump on Linux? My Grandma could never compiler her own kernel, but she'd be no good at fooling with the Windows registry, either.
Linux may or may not be difficult to get working, but if it takes a technical person tweak Windows, too, than that's not a valid reason against Linux.
There are steps of Technically minded people i guess. I'd say i'm not so bad but there are people that could pound me into the ground on windows.
Because linux sucks.... I've had to use a few flavors granted not all of them out there, but i'd rather use Vista or even 3.11 over ANY version of linux i've used. personal choice of course, some people love it and i wish them the best in using it.
end of the day, i like what i use and others like what they use.. user pref. saying one is better then the other is down to the user.
--------------------------------------------
Welcome to the best slideshow on Earth! |
Ciphero
Beagle Corp
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 23:21:00 -
[94]
I'm putting together a new PC over the coming months, and will probably try a downloaded copy of Vista on it first, for as long as I can without having to activate it or until I get sick of it (whichever comes first). Once that time comes, I expect to know whether I'll get Vista sooner or later. Anyone who thinks they can stick with XP forever should find some 3.1 users and see how they're doing.
So far, the only thing that really bothers me is the fact that the OEM (i.e. reasonably priced) edition is tied to one hardware configuration. I upgrade all the time and do not want to be forking out for extra licenses.
I'm still not totally sure why everyone's upset about the DRM thing. I may be missing something - if so, please tell me - but I can't see how it's going to affect me playing my legally-bought DVDs, self-ripped MP3s and such. Yeah it'll be a pain that I won't be able to watch my otherwise-acquired vids (or at least post-Vista acquired ones), but can one really complain about the OS stopping you from breaking the law? Irritating, yeah, but you can hardly blame them for it.
Everyone seems to think that Vista does more than XP therefore must be slower. Er, what? Vista has the DRM encryption doohickey - yes, that gives the CPU more to do. Considered that maybe this is compensated for by a more efficient method of doing something else compared to XP? Vista is not XP SP3 by any stretch of the imagination. There's a reason why it's the longest-awaited edition of Windows.
The amount of leaping before looking in this thread is pretty crazy, as a few posters have mentioned. Every review of Vista I've seen (by people who have used it, not just read the feature/bug list) is positive. But you know what, I'm going to try it for myself before I really form an opinion. Some of you could do with trying that method for yourselves. |
Frezik
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.01 23:51:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
end of the day, i like what i use and others like what they use.. user pref. saying one is better then the other is down to the user.
We don't get to agree to disagree on this. Windows inflicts additional hardware costs on everyone.
Originally by: Ciphero
Anyone who thinks they can stick with XP forever should find some 3.1 users and see how they're doing.
Ironically, just the other day I was flying home, and my baggage got lost during transfer. While one of the airline employees helped me track it down, I noticed the terminal she was using was Win3.1. Old applications like that tend to stick around in small niches like that. There are lots of financial transactions that still run on COBOL . . .
Quote:
I'm still not totally sure why everyone's upset about the DRM thing. I may be missing something - if so, please tell me - but I can't see how it's going to affect me playing my legally-bought DVDs, self-ripped MP3s and such.
It's been stated many times in this thread: Microsoft's DRM requirements greatly increases the cost to manufacture hardware. Even with all that, it still won't stop illegal copying, because that's an impossible design goal. All DRM models to date, including Vista, HD-DVD, and Blu-ray, have been broken or bypassed. The iTunes model of "cheep and convenient" is a much better way to solve the same problem.
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Epoch
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Posted - 2007.02.01 23:55:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Epoch on 01/02/2007 23:52:13
Originally by: Armored
I have Windows Vista Ultimate. Not a single problem has occured, the Dreamscene is nice (i have the Eve trailer as my full motion background) and furthermore I enjoy all the new eyecandy such as the glass aura's. DirectX 10 is going to be fantastic with the new Eve to be released (this version will be known as Eve Classic). If you are thinking of getting Vista, get the Ultimate.
P4 2.8
1 Gig 533 ram (soon to be 2)
Radeon X1950 GT ($150 on sale)
SoundBlaster Audigy.
With these modest specs, my system runs flawlessly.
Not running it personally however, on the AMD and anandtech forums, theres few negative comments about Vista so far. Oh yea, theres also a workaround to do a clean install from an upgrade disc.
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SavageThrash
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.02.02 00:15:00 -
[97]
Well i bought vista premium today and will probably install it in a bit, just trying to figure out what to backup and what not to.
BTW im not going to backup eve but i will backup wow so i dont have to DL it again :)
my sig lies
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Noig Lamaroz
Erasers inc.
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.02.02 00:42:00 -
[98]
Way too much text to read but to state something I've heard and what I feel.
a) some people claim that Vista is only way for dx10.. WRONG..
I tell you a little secret - a lot of games that require directx work under linux (eve is one of these) - and bingo! Microsoft has nothing to do with the systems that allow this to be done on linux (atleast what I know)
Anyway, when first dx10 games come (which will still take quite a time) - there will be coming quite soon "xp port" and stuff for xp's to run these games.. Time (and sales) will tell, if it's microsoft itself that does it - or some third party..
b) indeed - Vista (with Aero) requires a lot of power - many needs to upgrade their machine a lot.. Sure, it requires less without Aero - but who would be using it if it just looks xp.. Aero is one of the most hyped features of Vista..
c) and when you go and fry your mobo.. it's indeed a new license.. When with XP you could give MS a call and ask activation if it would start to whine about too changed system..
d) "it would be bad move from microsoft to do this and do that" - well guess what? Not everyone is a geek like you, majority of computer using people dont have a clue what happens "under the hood" nor do they need to.. If it works - it's enough for 'em.. It's bit like music industry's fight against piracy - the more you put in copy protections and stuff - more you shaft your regular customer..
In the end.. I know I wont be getting Vista.. Not that it sucks (but it does).. My machine just cant run it.. And if it could - well, Vista doesnt offer me anything I allready cant do with my current windows xp machine..
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2007.02.02 00:42:00 -
[99]
Originally by: SavageThrash
Well i bought vista premium today and will probably install it in a bit, just trying to figure out what to backup and what not to.
BTW im not going to backup eve but i will backup wow so i dont have to DL it again :)
Goddamned, dont backup wow!
_________________________________________________
Breetime
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Goktar illiat
Gallente
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.02 01:01:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Tribunal
Of course it's going to have problems for a while, it's brand new software.
That's not the actual problem. The problem is that Microsoft INTENDED those problems. Tehy won;t fix them. They aren't bugs. It's intended to do all those things.
well documented facts your spewing here ... lol !
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Taedrin
Gallente
The Last Ravens
|
Posted - 2007.02.02 05:00:00 -
[101]
All I want Microsoft to do, is give me a stripped down operating system designed to run as fast and light as possible. Give my games the CPU and memory that they need. I don't want an operating system taking up half of my RAM in the background, and happily consuming CPU cycles by the truckload.
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SavageThrash
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.02.02 06:08:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Taedrin
All I want Microsoft to do, is give me a stripped down operating system designed to run as fast and light as possible. Give my games the CPU and memory that they need. I don't want an operating system taking up half of my RAM in the background, and happily consuming CPU cycles by the truckload.
Id be all over that :) Then again we all know if the newest operating system ran on your old computer there is a major loss of cash there for the hardware companies, so why would AMD still be paying Microsoft to boost the minimum specs on the box  (no i have no idea if they do)
I was hoping the basic version of vista would be the same old xp look with just the new code written for better preformance and not all this extra crap :(
my sig lies
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MrTriggerHappy
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.02.02 14:33:00 -
[103]
For those of you who want more info about "Why not to install Vista".. have fun
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6319845.stm
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My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance |
Fredou
Gallente
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2007.02.02 22:53:00 -
[104]
funny thing with voice in vista..... sort of
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DaHeaVYFo
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
|
Posted - 2007.02.03 00:20:00 -
[105]
lol @ Vista, giving me a Kernel error on 2nd boot-up
39 processes running on this <curse> machine for Vista alone.
My Pc didn't want to shut down...
My microphone still isn't working, only in TS for some reason (logitech).
Windows Vista is OVERDONE with security! Overall Pampering windows design tbh, they've even created the diper for you... in case you'd run out.
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Pakalolo
Tha Shiznit
|
Posted - 2007.02.03 00:29:00 -
[106]
anyone else having trouble with folder redirection ie move documents folder to different drive and it breaks all the existing document folder shortcuts? Can't find a civ4 PBEM savegame, CIV4 says its saved, but nowhere to be found on any drive...
here's to the Action Pack subscription!
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Reiisha
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.02.03 12:22:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Armored
DirectX 10 is going to be fantastic with the new Eve to be released (this version will be known as Eve Classic).
EVE Classic is the DX9 version, which will run on XP etc. This is the version you've seen all those screenshots from.
EVE Vista is the Vista version (duh), of which only artist impressions are available atm (I think there's a single Vexor shot, and it wasn't even real time).
EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
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MrTriggerHappy
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.02.03 12:53:00 -
[108]
IIRC the current client we use is DX7?
The new screen shots are running on DX9, as far as i remember.. i've read a post about it before.
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My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance |
Krulla
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.03 19:59:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Stitcher
It won't be perfect. Nothing ever will. Still, that does not mean we should not move forward.
Windows Vista is a huge step backward, not forward.
The moment you Install Vista, your computer ceases to be your property, and becomes the property of Hollywood companies and Microsoft.
Sigs are for noobs. |
Battou
Caldari
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.03 20:24:00 -
[110]
Well I installed Windows Vista Business since I can get it from MSDN for free. All I can say is that Vista is great, and that I didn't have a single prob with the install. I also had no driver conflicts as I booted to a OS with all the drivers pre-installed. Also fps went from 50-60 to 100+ in space. So don't buy it if you don't want to, but I probably wont go back to XP. Vista is just to nice.
Dual Core AMD Opteron @ 2.5 Gigs
Sapphire X800 GTO2
2 Gigs Corsair Pc3200 Ram
Asus A8N5X Motherboard
450w Antec Smartpower PSU
Chenming 501 Case(Awesome Case BTW)
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Irrilian
Quetzalcoatl Inc
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Posted - 2007.02.04 01:11:00 -
[111]
"Today I upgraded my ram from 1GB to 2GB..."
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PIs and Forensic Accountants: adding risk vs reward for scams and thievery |
Armored
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.06 19:08:00 -
[112]
YOU have issues, and it's not with Vista.
I have Vista Ultimate, runs fine.
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