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Sticky:[March] ECM Tiericide

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CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 13725	Posted - 2016.02.11 18:26:53 - [1] - Quote Hello everyone! We're planning a huge set of module tiericide in our March release and this thread will serve as the feedback location for changes to ECM and Burst Jammers. This is a big group of modules, and we're making some light changes to module stats (mainly range tweaks) as well as some significant clarifying changes to the module names. For ECM Bust modules, we are adding a new set of faction and officer bursts from the Rogue Drones. We are also rechristening the groups as "Burst Jammers" so that we can more easily distinguish between the two in bonus text. Here's the most recent iteration of the numbers: We're very interested in your feedback on all these changes. We'll be releasing them to Singularity next week if all goes well, so that you can try these and all the other module changes planned for the March release. Please use this thread for passing along your feedback, and we'll be reading. Thanks! Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 13725	Posted - 2016.02.11 18:27:05 - [2] - Quote Reserved Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/

Asher Elias GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 18	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:06:54 - [3] - Quote Are ECM bursts going to have falloff apply now? If so how will it work?
Sydious Amok. Goonswarm Federation 27	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:10:15 - [4] - Quote No empire faction or officer ecm?
Mark Hadden Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion 63	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:24:48 - [5] - Quote keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards.
Gaius Superbus Free-Space-Ranger Northern Coalition. 1	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:29:05 - [6] - Quote What are the arguments for not making ECM scriptable? Of course this would make them stronger but a nerf to the overall strength would eliminate that and we could get rid off so many of these modules...
Barnacle Jakuard Rapid Withdrawal 0	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:45:55 - [7] - Quote Mark Hadden wrote: keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards. Right, because obviously Eve is currently incredibly accessible for new players without any bizarre arcane rules left in place from many years ago for Bob-only-knows what reason. If something this minor gets your knickers in that much of a twist, I can only imagine what your thoughts on the proposed sebo/ECCM merger are... Back on topic. I'm on the fence as to whether script-able ECCM modules would make more sense than this series of changes, but am glad to see jammer names getting a clarification treatment.
Sahriah BloodStone No.Mercy Triumvirate. 253	Posted - 2016.02.11 20:57:44 - [8] - Quote Is CCP looking at changing the core mechanic of RNG ECM jamming at all or are you intentionally leaving it alone? Sahriah Bloodstone Praetor, No.Mercy "Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 1985	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:07:23 - [9] - Quote Why not remove all this racial stuff and make ECM scriptables? Especially now that ECCMs are integrated into a widespread module that is sensor boosters... Suggestion: Not really expecting it since it's way more dev-intensive than tweaking numbers, but what about sensor strength turning into a ressource much like capacitor ? With the same passive regeneration curbe. Remove the random element of ECMs, have them slowly take away chunks of the target's sensor strength until it's unable to lock. With sebos and remote sebos acting as "logi" on your sensor strength. No more randomness. More fairness for both the ECM (ensured efficiency, albeit after some time) and its victim (fair time to kill the ECM or "broadcast for ECCM"). Signature Tanking Best Tanking Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
Lelob Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 209	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:22:54 - [10] - Quote Please increase cap consumption to above 400-600 so ecm bursting inties die out.

Hold Alpha Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:25:01 - [11] - Quote Mark Hadden wrote: keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards. Or go even one step further and get rid of race names and call them like red, green, yellow and blue maybe? For those who cant deal with race names and mix them together. This would make sure even the least intelligent moron would be able to safely apply right ewar modules onto enemy ships. Completely agree. In fact CCP should translate all modules and UI elements to icelandic, to add the kind of complexity the game craves, and show how elite the True Eve Players are.
Anthar Thebess 1452	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:30:00 - [12] - Quote Pirate LP store version missing here too. Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!
unidenify Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 175	Posted - 2016.02.11 21:36:50 - [13] - Quote Overall: am little disappointment that Meta ECM is no longer best module but that is to be expected noted that Dread Gurista Multi ECM get buff But big issue would be ECCM merge into SEBO in other thread. will CCP think to buff ECM or buff ECM boat if it turn out that more people carry SEBO to counter Jam?
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 421	Posted - 2016.02.11 22:00:47 - [14] - Quote unidenify wrote: Overall: am little disappointment that Meta ECM is no longer best module but that is to be expected Why...That was quite possibly the most illogical and unintuitive case with any of the old meta system. I'm glad to see T2 ECM finally gain its rightful place with these proposed changes. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Mr Rive Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 131	Posted - 2016.02.11 22:01:05 - [15] - Quote I still think there is a bigger problem with ecm drones, and perhaps ECM as a whole, that needs to be considered. All other forms of ECM are scripted, they either provide a range or effectiveness of some kind of ship attribute, reducing the effect of one of these ships attributes or another. Tracking disruptors are useless against missile ships, sensor damps are useless against most ships with one or more sensor boosters with the right script in. Yes, tracking disruptors and sensor damps CAN be devastating, but only when applied to the right kind of ship, with the right kind of modules, and can be countered in a number of ways. If you look at ECM drones in particular, no matter what ship they are on, be it an ishtar, which has bonuses to drones, or a vagabond, which doesn't, they have the same effects. This means, that an ishtar, whose DPS comes from it's drones, would basically become as effective as any other ship while launching ecm drones. It incentivises players to use ecm drones on a ship with no bonuses and a small drone bay. Their effects are also FAR in excess of any other drone based warfare platform. t2 light drones do approximately 70-100 dps for a full flight, which, unless one is facing frigates is marginal, yet ecm drones get one jam strength for EVERY race, which might not seem like much, but is 40% more effective than an unbonused multispectral collectively. This doesn't illustrate their strength though, as 5 small chances to jam a target is much more effective than a single, slightly stronger chance. The TLDR is, ECM drones are broken, boring to play with, and add nothing of value to the game other than annoyance. They involve no skill to use, but can shut down a ship for TWENTY SECONDS, and this happens far too often. Any ship without at least one ECCM module knows they are going to be jammed by ECM drones at some point in the fight. That's why everyone uses them. ECM is another story. Again, there is very little skill in using ECM. Unlike sensor damps and tracking diruptors where one has a choice, and that choice dictates the way combat is going to go, whether it be through range disrupting your opponent's guns, therefore keeping at range of them to take advantage of it, or sensor dampening your opponent with scan resolution scrips, so their logistics take a long time to lock your primary, damps and tracking disruptors are both an engaging and fun, and often decisive way combat plays out. ECM on the other hand is just a question of 'did you fit ECCM and have enough gang links to hopefully counter the inablity for your ship to lock anything for 20 seconds or more?' It's a random 'I win button', with very little tactic or pre-thought involved. I suggest you do with ECM what you did with other ewar modules. Give ECM two scripts. One gives the ECM a longer jamming time, the other significantly reduces the jamming time, but increases the strength of the ecm. Alternatively, one could make it so that the more sensor integrity the hostile ship has, the more capacitor it costs to use ECM modules in order to try and counter them, although this might be more server load than you would be willing to introduce for one module (you did it for cap batteries though!). I strongly suggest you remove light ECM drones altogether, perhaps even medium ECM drones. No other race gets a light and medium variant of ECM drones, so why should caldari? Light ECM drones mean there is simply no reason not to fit them on every ship you own. Their speed means no ship can outrun them other than linked ceptors, and their size means if you don't have at least a single flight in your ship, you're doing something wrong. Also, ECM drones should stop jamming a target if they stray out of their optimal range, much like normal drones stop being able to hit. I have had ecm drones which I have burned 30km away from continue to jam me for the remainder of their cycle. The TLDR is, ECM is neither fun, engaging, or challenging, in fact, it is the opposite of all three. There is no element of strategy involved with ECM or ECM drones. Compare the arazu to the falcon, and in a fight, there is simply no competition to which you would prefer to have in a small gang. I mean hell, even the arazu will be packing ECM drones.
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1202	Posted - 2016.02.11 22:29:25 - [16] - Quote pls just remove ecm until you can think up an acceptable new mechanic
Soldarius O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore 1460	Posted - 2016.02.11 22:36:07 - [17] - Quote Mr Rive wrote: I suggest you do with ECM what you did with other ewar modules. Give ECM two scripts. One gives the ECM a longer jamming time, the other significantly reduces the jamming time, but increases the strength of the ecm. HAHAHAHAHAHHHHAAH plz do this CCP. I want to watch Mr Rive cry bloody murder when his titan gets permajammed by an ibis. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Mr Rive Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 131	Posted - 2016.02.11 22:40:16 - [18] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Mr Rive wrote: I suggest you do with ECM what you did with other ewar modules. Give ECM two scripts. One gives the ECM a longer jamming time, the other significantly reduces the jamming time, but increases the strength of the ecm. HAHAHAHAHAHHHHAAH plz do this CCP. I want to watch Mr Rive cry bloody murder when his titan gets permajammed by an ibis. Jokes on you I dont own a titan :smug:
FOl2TY8 Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation 101	Posted - 2016.02.11 22:47:30 - [19] - Quote Mark Hadden wrote: keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards. Or go even one step further and get rid of race names and call them like red, green, yellow and blue maybe? For those who cant deal with race names and mix them together. This would make sure even the least intelligent moron would be able to safely apply right ewar modules onto enemy ships. Do you have to be hospitalized every time Mountain Dew changes it's packaging?
Mad Abbat Talon Swarm 32	Posted - 2016.02.11 22:49:02 - [20] - Quote Mr Fozzie, E-war Drones?

mnehila Grey Eagles TransentienT 3	Posted - 2016.02.11 23:08:09 - [21] - Quote I'd like the effect of when you are jammed to change from "not being able to lock" to "every targeting attempt have a chance of failing" (still using the full targeting time) + at the start of the ecm module cycle "every targeted ship have a chance of being unlocked". This would change the on/off feel of ecm to x amount targeting attempts failing and x locks lost, the amount depending on how strong the ecm effect is. And another crazy idea to make it more interesting, make the direction the ecm is coming from matter, ie, make the ecm effect stronger or only apply in the same direction the ecm ship is. The ecm ship would have to be "behind"/"in line" with the fleet to be effective, and you could escape the effect of the jam by moving "sideways" until the ship you are trying to lock is no longer in a line between you and the ecm ship. This could create a fun positioning game I think :) Something like this: https://imgur.com/KDX1xda
Michael Oskold Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion 16	Posted - 2016.02.12 00:21:06 - [22] - Quote Mark Hadden wrote: keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards. Or go even one step further and get rid of race names and call them like red, green, yellow and blue maybe? For those who cant deal with race names and mix them together. This would make sure even the least intelligent moron would be able to safely apply right ewar modules onto enemy ships. says the guy in hoover. lmao
Aliventi Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies. 915	Posted - 2016.02.12 00:41:49 - [23] - Quote This would be a great time to make ECM more unified with the other EWAR variants. ECM is the only module that has different racial types. I think it would be far more valuable to make ECM a single module with racial scripts to bring it in line with SD/TD. I think it would also be beneficial to remove signal amplifiers as no other EWAR has a way to boost effectiveness. Of course removing signal amplifiers would preferably be compensated by a slight buff to ECM strength. The reason I advocate for these changes is to give ECM ships opportunities to act more like other EWAR ships. Because ECM has racial modules you are driven to fit at least one of each racial ECM module to prevent the case where you are less effective on the battlefield because you are missing a racial jammer. By changing ECM to be a single module with scripts it would allow ECM ships to need fewer ECM modules, and free up slots for tank. This would allow ECM ships to have the capability present in other EWAR ships of being able to fit enough tank to stay on the field. There would still be those who would fit max jammers. They would pay because they would be easy to kill, just as any other EWAR ship that fix max EWAR. A single ECM module with racial scripts would unlock ECM ships that can stay on field and keep fighting, instead of ECM ships that warp in at max range and warp out as soon as they get shot. That's a choice present in every other EWAR ships and should be available to ECM ships.
Flyinghotpocket Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 556	Posted - 2016.02.12 00:47:08 - [24] - Quote if ccp devs were true in listening to what their players want. then RIP out this stupid AS **** mechanic and put in something that isnt rage inducing. a ship with 300 sensor strength vs a 15 strength jam should never EVER EVER EVER JAM. EVER. nobody here wants to see this crap tiercided, everybody in the entire universe wants to see a new freaking mechanic. Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Addison Clark Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2016.02.12 00:52:11 - [25] - Quote Aliventi wrote: This would be a great time to make ECM more unified with the other EWAR variants. ECM is the only module that has different racial types. I think it would be far more valuable to make ECM a single module with racial scripts to bring it in line with SD/TD. I think it would also be beneficial to remove signal amplifiers as no other EWAR has a way to boost effectiveness. Of course removing signal amplifiers would preferably be compensated by a slight buff to ECM strength. The reason I advocate for these changes is to give ECM ships opportunities to act more like other EWAR ships. Because ECM has racial modules you are driven to fit at least one of each racial ECM module to prevent the case where you are less effective on the battlefield because you are missing a racial jammer. By changing ECM to be a single module with scripts it would allow ECM ships to need fewer ECM modules, and free up slots for tank. This would allow ECM ships to have the capability present in other EWAR ships of being able to fit enough tank to stay on the field. There would still be those who would fit max jammers. They would pay because they would be easy to kill, just as any other EWAR ship that fix max EWAR. A single ECM module with racial scripts would unlock ECM ships that can stay on field and keep fighting, instead of ECM ships that warp in at max range and warp out as soon as they get shot. That's a choice present in every other EWAR ships and should be available to ECM ships. Honestly this is what I thought would be happening now that Citadal ECM is to be used with racial scripts. Adding this in improves the usability of the module, and enables you to adjust on-the-fly versus being locked in to a certain type.
Jennifer Maxwell Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 342	Posted - 2016.02.12 00:54:11 - [26] - Quote I wish T2 modules had more interesting names than "something T2". Though, I do hope you guys at least capitalize RADAR and LADAR properly, as they're acronyms and not words themselves. All in all, I think you actually managed to not completely ruin ECM like I was afraid would happen. I'm not enthused with the changes, but I'm not too upset by them either.
Gallente Citizen420 Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.02.12 00:54:49 - [27] - Quote While you're at it, could be please make Gallente ecm modules green? CCPlease Amarr - yellow Caldari - blue Mimmatar scum - red Gallente master race - another shade of blue!?!?!?
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2968	Posted - 2016.02.12 01:11:17 - [28] - Quote How long that list is says you should get rid of racial ECM modules. Omni ECM & scripts/ammo if you really really have to keep some form of focusing. Scripts as ammo gives a meaning to specialising to only a single type since you can't keep it up forever as a result. But you don't have to fit different turrets for shooting different races, and you don't have to fit different damps/painters for different races either (The disruptor also should have been universal.). So Omni ECM and some form of ammo lands us back in a sweet spot of common sense & still meaningful choices of what ammo to carry.
Zetakya Echelon Research SpaceMonkey's Alliance 0	Posted - 2016.02.12 02:29:02 - [29] - Quote Some thoughts on both ECM & ECCM. Speaking here as a Caldari EWAR pilot. I'll cross-post part of this into the ECCM/SEBO thread as well, for completeness & to make sure the relevant parts are seen by Devs in the right place, but it's not really possible to consider the ECM changes in isolation from the widening of the ECCM availability. The SEBO fitting reqs just doubled for the same effect. Old F90 was 30% boost, to get that now you need a Tech2, which with the increased fitting costs per module has pushed CPU need from 8 to 16. That's going to be a problem for some fits (thankfully, not mine). I do like the merging of ECCM with these modules, it makes for a good tactical choice on the field of what to script, rather than a strategic choice before you leave dock. As for ECM... this is a nerf. Aside from much more common use of ECCM, simply fitting an equivalent strength ECM module will now cost 10 extra CPU per module and require 20 additional cap per cycle per module. While the CPU change doesn't really matter at present (the Rook in particular is already grossly over-specified in that department), it will matter if you ever rebalance the hulls and it is going to make cap stable ECM more difficult, and therefore increase the value of Neuts as an ECM counter. This is especially true given the slot limitations making fitting tank, ECM and now cap mods in mid slots an impossible challenge. I reiterate all of the calls for scripted ECM to be available. The argument that racial ECM gives a benefit to the side with the better information is a fair one, but I don't think it's sensible for an entire module - or indeed an entire ship - to be rendered useless for the duration of a fleet. Most EWAR pilots already carry refitting tools - usually a Yurt and a full suite of Meta4 racials at present - in order to prevent this eventuality anyway. Given that, why not implement scripts for ECM, but with a significant "reload" (Install? Firmware Flash? w/e) time? A 60s timer (the same as the deployment time on a Mobile Depot) would be reasonable. You could also implement other types of scripts - one that gives extended range, but without racial enhancements, or one that severely reduces range & nullifies hull bonuses, but increases base strength sharply. Racial ECMs don't add anything to the game, because you've implemented modules that give us a workaround with a minute of downtime anyway. Just give us the same ability as a native part of the ECM functionality, please.
Alexis Nightwish 406	Posted - 2016.02.12 02:58:00 - [30] - Quote Since I've already read the sebo changes, I can see that these are just the nail in the coffin for ECM. I mean, you're nerfing ECM and at the same time strengthening its counters. Good job. CCP Fozzie wrote: For ECM Bust modules, we are adding a new set of faction and officer bursts from the Rogue Drones. We are also rechristening the groups as "Burst Jammers" so that we can more easily distinguish between the two in bonus text. Another fine example of how you don't actually play the game. Don't know what I'm talking about? Okay, so check this out, ECM Burst modules DO NOT JAM. They only break locks. But you're going to call them "Jammers" now? smh CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers

Evan Giants Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 16	Posted - 2016.02.12 03:04:30 - [31] - Quote What will you do regarding ECCM BPO/BPC? Convert them to ECCM Script BPO?
Gospadin Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards 254	Posted - 2016.02.12 03:11:38 - [32] - Quote Aliventi wrote: This would be a great time to make ECM more unified with the other EWAR variants. ECM is the only module that has different racial types. I think it would be far more valuable to make ECM a single module with racial scripts to bring it in line with SD/TD. I think it would also be beneficial to remove signal amplifiers as no other EWAR has a way to boost effectiveness. Of course removing signal amplifiers would preferably be compensated by a slight buff to ECM strength. The reason I advocate for these changes is to give ECM ships opportunities to act more like other EWAR ships. Because ECM has racial modules you are driven to fit at least one of each racial ECM module to prevent the case where you are less effective on the battlefield because you are missing a racial jammer. By changing ECM to be a single module with scripts it would allow ECM ships to need fewer ECM modules, and free up slots for tank. This would allow ECM ships to have the capability present in other EWAR ships of being able to fit enough tank to stay on the field. There would still be those who would fit max jammers. They would pay because they would be easy to kill, just as any other EWAR ship that fix max EWAR. A single ECM module with racial scripts would unlock ECM ships that can stay on field and keep fighting, instead of ECM ships that warp in at max range and warp out as soon as they get shot. That's a choice present in every other EWAR ships and should be available to ECM ships. Something like this is what I was hoping for. Make the script take, say, 30s to add or remove from the module. You can prep 1 or 2 ECM modules with scripts that you expect to use, but in the meantime, you roll with multispectral until you think you can spare 30s. Honestly, having 7000 different ECM modules to juggle is annoying.
Groot Calrissian Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 1	Posted - 2016.02.12 03:49:05 - [33] - Quote As an ECM pilot, and loving the force multiplication factor, I agree that the mechanic is fuxt as it is. Scripted modules would make a ton of sense, and make ECM boats viable in combat, which they currently are not. A reasonable delay to switch scripts would help - and shortening the jam cycle time would be nice for both the recipient and the ECM pilot. However, I think a mechanics overhaul would be appreciated by everyone. As suggested above, a 'chance to lock' on each target would be a viable mechanic. Re-roll the dice for each attempted lock. Upon successful jam cycle initiation, break lock for on-race script only, but roll dice for target lock even for off-race jams. Reduced cycle time of 10 seconds would give the ECM pilot more options to relocate jams, and even increase the motivation to invest in correctly racial scripts. This makes a significant motivation to utilize the correct on-race script, and makes an interesting fitting decision of fewer scriptable ECM modules (which could be any race with a time penalty to reload) or enough jams to still have a rainbow fit but no more tank than currently. This would also serve to make ECM hulls less predictable as far as how they are fit, and give the players more choice to work with.
Rob Kashuken Dropbears Anonymous 80	Posted - 2016.02.12 06:30:47 - [34] - Quote As someone who has flown an awful lot of ewar in a previous corp, I'd echo the suggestion given previously that the racial jammers should be abolished, and instead have a single module that is can be scripted to specialise into each race. This would allow for Caldari ewar pilots to be able to field effective shield tank, whilst not being reliant on their tanking ability to be effectively based on a RNG roll.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 341	Posted - 2016.02.12 06:44:42 - [35] - Quote Interesting, was hoping for something more along the lines of scripting to alter the ECM type - particularly after reading the sensor boost and ECCM merger.
Cyrek Ohaya Blazing Sun Group 21	Posted - 2016.02.12 06:48:59 - [36] - Quote ECM already took a big hit when they allowed the victim to know WHEN exactly is the ECM effect going to wear down. Give it time to see how this affects players in general instead of giving out mindless changes every month.
Mnemosyne Ab aeterno EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2016.02.12 07:59:32 - [37] - Quote As you are now buffing ECCM please get rid of the Ladar, Radar, Mag and the other one and replace it with just the multispec and have faction scripts that we can fit with a timer to change the scripts e.g. 4min between changes per mod
Mad Abbat Talon Swarm 53	Posted - 2016.02.12 08:34:24 - [38] - Quote Addison Clark wrote: Honestly this is what I thought would be happening now that Citadal ECM is to be used with racial scripts. Adding this in improves the usability of the module, and enables you to adjust on-the-fly versus being locked in to a certain type. Tell that to scripted combo of missle/tracking disruptors. Muahahaha. Carry a set of 16 modules and a depot bro. That is valuable gameplay. I enjoyed it already while flight-testing the the CNI_wreck_of_the_ship.
Alex Harumichi Icecream Audit Office 32	Posted - 2016.02.12 08:42:32 - [39] - Quote No Caldari navy ECM?
Renfus Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 24	Posted - 2016.02.12 09:29:35 - [40] - Quote Instead of having 5 separate ecm modules. How about having 1 module that has the same stats as the multi spec jammer when unscripted. And have racial scripts.. Allowing ecm ships to change scripts on the fly.. Our would that be to OP somehow? ((( Alliance Creation ))) Corp Update Service available ( 10,600 Member limit ). ++ Free with Alliance Creation ++ Contact me In-Game.

Freelancer117 So you want to be a Hero 427	Posted - 2016.02.12 13:19:27 - [41] - Quote CCP Fozzie, please don't forget to balance the ewar drones Eve online is : A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online D) CCP Games pay More to win at skill training time, now with instant gratification http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
waghez pig Deadspace Knights Sacred Empire of Ellyssium 0	Posted - 2016.02.12 14:33:38 - [42] - Quote Marid Hadden wrote: keep duinbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards. Or go even one step further and get rid of race names and call them like red, green, yellow and blue maybe? For those who cant deal with race names and mix them together. This would make sure even the least intelligent moron would be able to safely apply right ewar modules onto enemy ships. Lol, when a bitter vets cry a newbro subcribes to the game. Cry us another back in the day story bitter vet. Cry again bitter vet how Eve is dying. Please post an angry bitter vet rant in the forums before you unsubscribe.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 1033	Posted - 2016.02.12 15:06:41 - [43] - Quote Finally, the T2 mods are better than the meta 4s. Never change ECM. The rage inducing mechanic brings many tears and many laughs. To all the haters, come to the jam side, we have scones.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1258	Posted - 2016.02.12 15:08:01 - [44] - Quote so will the falloff mechanic be hit or miss .. or the new strength too range ratio?? T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 918	Posted - 2016.02.12 15:26:42 - [45] - Quote So uhh 90% of all tiercides make meta useless compared to t2. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
unidenify Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 176	Posted - 2016.02.12 16:19:00 - [46] - Quote Arya Regnar wrote: So uhh 90% of all tiercides make meta useless compared to t2. that is whole point of tiercides?
Richard TheLordOfDance New Eden Special Operations Force 18	Posted - 2016.02.12 16:47:00 - [47] - Quote Finally the t2 modules will become useful! This has taken way to long! For the people currently complaining about how op ecm are, I would like to point out that enough sensor dampers can take your lock range down to below 10km which means you can't lock anything outside of that range, with no hope of the roll will be in your favour like with ecm, you will be for all intents and purposes permanently jammed until the jammers a) dies b) runs out of cap c) decides to stop for some reason. Or has this changed recently while I wasn't looking? And to the people saying that the modules should be scripted instead of racially aligned, why in the world would you want to give people a ecm ship that could instantly swap around it's jamming strengths!? Combat refitting is already on its way out and you want to reintroduce one of it's many symptoms straight away...
FraXy Hawken Extraordinarii 30	Posted - 2016.02.12 16:58:41 - [48] - Quote Are we ever going to get ECM reworked to something tolerable rather than 20s of doing nothing without any active counter? 5s ecm duration 20s module duration Tactical jamming rather than split and/or stack. One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
ApolloF117 HUN Angels and Demons Inc. Mordus Angels 25	Posted - 2016.02.12 19:31:26 - [49] - Quote why doesn't the ECM faction like Mordus legion don't have legion ecm burst? They have lots of ECM related stuffs in the lp store, but no ecm burst
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 1033	Posted - 2016.02.12 20:11:25 - [50] - Quote Stop moaning about ECM. This is the wrong thread for that. You want to have the mechanic changed, then go open a thread in Player Features and Ideas Discussion forum.

FraXy Hawken Extraordinarii 30	Posted - 2016.02.12 21:43:52 - [51] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: Stop moaning about ECM. This is the wrong thread for that. You want to have the mechanic changed, then go open a thread in Player Features and Ideas Discussion forum. Any thread is a potential ECM mechanic discussion thread. One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
Irya Boone Never Surrender. 472	Posted - 2016.02.12 21:43:52 - [52] - Quote no just remove ecm from the game CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !! you shall all bow and pray BoB
Gospadin Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards 254	Posted - 2016.02.12 22:07:02 - [53] - Quote The above points are great. It should be a single, multi-spectral-by-default module. Script for racial strength... Maybe have two versions of each race's scripts, one shorter range and stronger, and one longer range and weaker. Somewhere between 30s and 60s to load or change scripts.
Korozaa Akuma Yomi-no-kuni 3	Posted - 2016.02.12 23:34:00 - [54] - Quote Zetakya wrote: As for ECM... this is a nerf. Aside from much more common use of ECCM, simply fitting an equivalent strength ECM module will now cost 10 extra CPU per module and require 20 additional cap per cycle per module. While the CPU change doesn't really matter at present (the Rook in particular is already grossly over-specified in that department), it will matter if you ever rebalance the hulls and it is going to make cap stable ECM more difficult, and therefore increase the value of Neuts as an ECM counter. This is especially true given the slot limitations making fitting tank, ECM and now cap mods in mid slots an impossible challenge. I agree. From the current Meta 4 to the new T2. I get zero increase in jam strength at the cost of an 50% increase in CPU cost and 53% increase in cap cost (assuming duration is unchanged).
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2971	Posted - 2016.02.13 00:09:19 - [55] - Quote Richard TheLordOfDance wrote: And to the people saying that the modules should be scripted instead of racially aligned, why in the world would you want to give people a ecm ship that could instantly swap around it's jamming strengths!? Combat refitting is already on its way out and you want to reintroduce one of it's many symptoms straight away... A script does not 'have' to be instant swap. Treating it like ammo and requiring a reload period allows you to actually put tank on your ECM ships without having to armour tank them while still being able to adapt to the targets fleet comp. Higher fitting requirements in return might also be a good thing to make it hard to fit a full rack of ECM if they were swappable like that.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3084	Posted - 2016.02.13 00:20:48 - [56] - Quote What nevyn said. One idea i liked was giving them a 60 second or longer reload timer. Takes away the need for docking in-between fights (especially annoying when you can't dock in enemy territory) but prevents you from swapping mid fight. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Zetakya Echelon Research SpaceMonkey's Alliance 1	Posted - 2016.02.13 04:11:00 - [57] - Quote Korozaa Akuma wrote: Zetakya wrote: As for ECM... this is a nerf. Aside from much more common use of ECCM, simply fitting an equivalent strength ECM module will now cost 10 extra CPU per module and require 20 additional cap per cycle per module. While the CPU change doesn't really matter at present (the Rook in particular is already grossly over-specified in that department), it will matter if you ever rebalance the hulls and it is going to make cap stable ECM more difficult, and therefore increase the value of Neuts as an ECM counter. This is especially true given the slot limitations making fitting tank, ECM and now cap mods in mid slots an impossible challenge. I agree. From the current Meta 4 to the new T2. I get zero increase in jam strength at the cost of an 50% increase in CPU cost and 53% increase in cap cost (assuming duration is unchanged). Yes, you're correct, I must have misread somewhere. It's 16 extra CPU per mod. This seems to be a common theme across this iteration of tiericide. CPU costs are now higher across the board. Oddly this doesn't affect the EWAR boats so much - as previously mentioned, they are over-endowed with CPU (& grid) to the point where fitting costs are (almost) moot. What it does (& this applies more to Target Painters than anything else) is discourage the use of odd EWAR mods on unbonused hulls. 53% increase in cap usage is far more significant for EWAR boats. At a rough calc this will leave most reasonable Rook fits balanced on the knife-edge of cap stability without a prop mod active. The Blackbird and Falcon, which were already more difficult to balance, will be impossible. With most of the low-slot cap mods being useless for a shield ship, and mid slots at a premium for both tank and EWAR, I'm not sure what the plan behind this is. Is CCP trying to force us into having dedicated cap logi to allow fleet EWAR to function? I certainly know that the Pilgrim and the Curse have gone (even) higher up my ECM priority list.
Tyranis Marcus Bloody Heathens 1465	Posted - 2016.02.13 15:47:31 - [58] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: For ECM Bust modules, Lol. Used well, that's a proper description. Do not run. We are your friends.
Tyranis Marcus Bloody Heathens 1465	Posted - 2016.02.13 15:54:45 - [59] - Quote The new names look great. Having the sensor type in each name will be nice. It's cool to see some Rogue Drone modules added, too. Do not run. We are your friends.
Xeator soldiers.fi 63	Posted - 2016.02.13 17:13:59 - [60] - Quote Renfus wrote: Instead of having 5 separate ecm modules. How about having 1 module that has the same stats as the multi spec jammer when unscripted. And have racial scripts.. Allowing ecm ships to change scripts on the fly.. Our would that be to OP somehow? Yeah, I dont get why they havent already changed it to something like this. If CCP thinks its too OP, its not. And if it really is "OP" then just make reloading scripts take like 2min so you cant swap them around constantly. Boom, ECM tiericide solved.

Lena Lazair Sefrim 560	Posted - 2016.02.13 20:05:03 - [61] - Quote Arya Regnar wrote: So uhh 90% of all tiercides make meta useless compared to t2. No, because meta continue to have lower fitting costs, and are therefore still extremely useful on tight fits. However yes, if fitting is not an issue, T2 comes out on top, and industrialists across New Eden rejoice. The real issue is that T1/M0 items remain completely and utterly pointless after tiericide, which is a shame. I know I and many others were hoping that the T1/M0 items would be balanced as a middle-ground option across M0 to M4, with a variety of fitting to benefit trade-offs that let you really tweak and tune a tight or low-skill fit, where no single item in the M0 to M4 range was strictly superior to any other. But when you have fitting to spare, T2 being across-the-board better is perfectly fine and has worked great for all the modules where that was already true. M4 matching T2 benefits and reduced fitting was an oddball case for a few module types that never made any sense at all, and I'm glad to finally see it done away with.
unidenify Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 177	Posted - 2016.02.13 20:40:32 - [62] - Quote Lena Lazair wrote: Arya Regnar wrote: So uhh 90% of all tiercides make meta useless compared to t2. No, because meta continue to have lower fitting costs, and are therefore still extremely useful on tight fits. However yes, if fitting is not an issue, T2 comes out on top, and industrialists across New Eden rejoice. The real issue is that T1/M0 items remain completely and utterly pointless after tiericide, which is a shame. I know I and many others were hoping that the T1/M0 items would be balanced as a middle-ground option across M0 to M4, with a variety of fitting to benefit trade-offs that let you really tweak and tune a tight or low-skill fit, where no single item in the M0 to M4 range was strictly superior to any other. But when you have fitting to spare, T2 being across-the-board better is perfectly fine and has worked great for all the modules where that was already true. M4 matching T2 benefits and reduced fitting was an oddball case for a few module types that never made any sense at all, and I'm glad to finally see it done away with. purpose of T1 is to provide itself as material for T2 production so it is still not useless
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2972	Posted - 2016.02.13 21:24:11 - [63] - Quote unidenify wrote: purpose of T1 is to provide itself as material for T2 production so it is still not useless It could have still been made to be an actually practical fit as well. I.E. T1 ECM Strength 100%, Range 100%, Fitting 100% to give relative values. Meta ECM Strength 110 Range 90% Fitting 90% to give an example, >100% being improvement, under 100% being penalty. T2 then is 110% across the board or something. However that is more a debate for the entire module tiericide in general than just ECM. ECM just happened to be one of the module categories where Meta 4 was out of balance and better (or at least equal) than T2 in all aspects. And so people are upset that the long overdue meta 4 nerf has happened.
unidenify Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 178	Posted - 2016.02.13 23:13:03 - [64] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: unidenify wrote: purpose of T1 is to provide itself as material for T2 production so it is still not useless It could have still been made to be an actually practical fit as well. I.E. T1 ECM Strength 100%, Range 100%, Fitting 100% to give relative values. Meta ECM Strength 110 Range 90% Fitting 90% to give an example, >100% being improvement, under 100% being penalty. T2 then is 110% across the board or something. However that is more a debate for the entire module tiericide in general than just ECM. ECM just happened to be one of the module categories where Meta 4 was out of balance and better (or at least equal) than T2 in all aspects. And so people are upset that the long overdue meta 4 nerf has happened. Meta 4 thing apply to EWAR modules including Warp Scrambler/Distruptor so, plenty of people are not happy about this change
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2973	Posted - 2016.02.13 23:28:16 - [65] - Quote unidenify wrote: Meta 4 thing apply to EWAR modules including Warp Scrambler/Distruptor so, plenty of people are not happy about this change Sure, however it was an out of balance thing that Meta 4 was better than T2, and was always going to be corrected at some point. Just the tiericide initiative meant it got combined with the other changes at the same time. But the nerf was going to come sooner or later. People got upset over the Ishtar nerfs as well, but they were needed, so was the correction between Meta 4 & T2.
Hahnide Kragomn Iota Piscium 1	Posted - 2016.02.14 04:01:37 - [66] - Quote I guess it makes sense for the regular loot drops to be not as good as T2. I noticed that some T2's were nerfed in CPU and Cap Need, especially the multispecterals and burst modules,. I would like to see Navy faction ECM modules, at least for Caldari navy. I'm curious as to where the new Burst jammers might be found.
Nevil Kincade Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels 24	Posted - 2016.02.14 12:48:29 - [67] - Quote I'd like to share some Feedback on the Legion ECM line: Legion ECM Racial Jammer 108m ISK at 3000 ISK/LP Current prices at 200m a piece; sell orders fluctuating between 100-350m ISK due to the low volume traded. Falcon 195m ISK 6x Racial Legion ECM at 108m = 648m ISK (try having 6 of each racial jammers and a mobile depot in the cargo (2.592 bil ISK)) depending on the market situation the price can easily be double. Advantage compared against T2 modules: Jam Strength +2,78% Optimal Range +4.17% Falloff +4.17% ... Really not worth the ISK investment and therefore not a valid fitting choice at all in my oppinion. I understand that any changes to jam strength are being held off by the incoming SeBo changes. But measures could be taken to make those modules more valid. A general reduction to range and falloff for the non faction modules for instance will increase performance gap and would probably be very popular. Another idea would be to drastically reduce the ISK and LP cost for those modules. Let's say cut the cost down by a factor of 4 and reimburse players owning the modules with an equivalent amount of spare mods. Analogue adjustments would have to made to the officer variants drop rate and currently existing quantaties. Maybe some of you might think it's not a priority but im looking at a whole line of faction modules only complete ISK retards buy. It is worthy to note that the price for Legion ECM mods is coupled to Garmur and Orthrus BPCs and a drop below 3000 ISK/LP rather unlikely as LP Farmers do switch to Faction Warfare mission farming when the price drops. For all i care nerf them mods too but make them a valid choice, please.
Merrowing Kion The Reborn The Gorgon Empire 3	Posted - 2016.02.14 13:17:34 - [68] - Quote ECM is too weak now. Damp is more effective, more universal and don't random. First of all - damp ships have a longer effective range than ecm ships. Especially t2 ships. Second moment - racial ecm module, so you must refit in combat, or you should know, what ships use your enemy. So i think, you need to do 2 things: 1) One ECM module type ( t2 and meta variants) and 4 racial scripts. 2) Give rook and falcon optimal and/or falloff bonus. This change i think is really necessary, especially when you added ECCM bonus to sensor booster. Otherwise i think ECM will finally die.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1561	Posted - 2016.02.14 14:36:33 - [69] - Quote Merrowing Kion wrote: ECM is too weak now. Damp is more effective, more universal and don't random. First of all - damp ships have a longer effective range than ecm ships. Especially t2 ships. Second moment - racial ecm module, so you must refit in combat, or you should know, what ships use your enemy. So i think, you need to do 2 things: 1) One ECM module type ( t2 and meta variants) and 4 racial scripts. 2) Give rook and falcon optimal and/or falloff bonus. This change i think is really necessary, especially when you added ECCM bonus to sensor booster. Otherwise i think ECM will finally die. No you want to make ecm better you don't detract from its uniqueness you play to it 1 remove 100% jam chance with ECM there should always be risk of failure 2 don't add eccm to SEBOs add it to ecm modules to act as a stacking penalty. 3 raise base ecm to account for it now being less effective. What you get is a module that builds on the unique game play ecm brings (never having a green cycle) you increase the need for communication among ecm pilots (another thing unique to ecm when it comes to ewar) and you no longer have mass boobs of ecm Parma jamming fleets. Citadel worm hole tax
Tao Xenon Vulcan College of Mining and Refining 0	Posted - 2016.02.15 07:05:16 - [70] - Quote just a question about burst ECM, (burst only) why is it considered an aggressive act? ECM does not affect any aspect of damage to a ship and the burst is non directed. Enlighten me.. can the use of burst ECM not be considered for activating an aggression timer?.. much like targeting a contact does not cause any .

Richard TheLordOfDance New Eden Special Operations Force 18	Posted - 2016.02.15 11:45:14 - [71] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Richard TheLordOfDance wrote: And to the people saying that the modules should be scripted instead of racially aligned, why in the world would you want to give people a ecm ship that could instantly swap around it's jamming strengths!? Combat refitting is already on its way out and you want to reintroduce one of it's many symptoms straight away... A script does not 'have' to be instant swap. Treating it like ammo and requiring a reload period allows you to actually put tank on your ECM ships without having to armour tank them while still being able to adapt to the targets fleet comp. Higher fitting requirements in return might also be a good thing to make it hard to fit a full rack of ECM if they were swappable like that. In my opinion an ECM ship should be hard to get a good tank on while at the same time stay an effective jammer, this in some ways counter the "I can't do **** to you for 20s" by letting you almost instapop the guy when you finally got a lock.
Zetakya Echelon Research SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2	Posted - 2016.02.15 13:23:25 - [72] - Quote Richard TheLordOfDance wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Richard TheLordOfDance wrote: And to the people saying that the modules should be scripted instead of racially aligned, why in the world would you want to give people a ecm ship that could instantly swap around it's jamming strengths!? Combat refitting is already on its way out and you want to reintroduce one of it's many symptoms straight away... A script does not 'have' to be instant swap. Treating it like ammo and requiring a reload period allows you to actually put tank on your ECM ships without having to armour tank them while still being able to adapt to the targets fleet comp. Higher fitting requirements in return might also be a good thing to make it hard to fit a full rack of ECM if they were swappable like that. In my opinion an ECM ship should be hard to get a good tank on while at the same time stay an effective jammer, this in some ways counter the "I can't do **** to you for 20s" by letting you almost instapop the guy when you finally got a lock. You can get 25k EHP buffer on a Rook without much effort, thanks to Caldari CPU and Powergrid allowing you to fit Large Shield Extenders. Mine (Large Extender 2, Invuln 2, EM Ward 2, DC2) has 26k shield EHP alone. As I've said upthread, almost every ECM Pilot in existence has a Mobile Depot (usually a Yurt) and a cargohold full of Meta 4 racial jammers at present. You don't want to be on grid (visibly, anyway) at the start of a fight, so staying half an AU away with the refit window open ready to refit and engage is pretty much standard practice. A scripted ECM with a 30s "install" timer will actually be slower than the current refit system, because once your Yurt is down refitting only costs you however much time it takes to warp out & in (which you are probably doing anyway to evade tacklers & alpha strike attempts. If anything, a scripted ECM will be less flexible than the current racial system, as a script would make the off-race jam strength zero (assuming it works the same way as all other scripts), removing the option of trying off-race jams in desperation. I'm not asking for a huge buff to ECM here; I'm just asking for the game mechanic to be changed from the current clunky "Depot & Hold full of Racials" to a script system (with a script install timer) that streamlines the existing gameplay.
Aliventi Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies. 916	Posted - 2016.02.15 18:56:02 - [73] - Quote Richard TheLordOfDance wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Richard TheLordOfDance wrote: And to the people saying that the modules should be scripted instead of racially aligned, why in the world would you want to give people a ecm ship that could instantly swap around it's jamming strengths!? Combat refitting is already on its way out and you want to reintroduce one of it's many symptoms straight away... A script does not 'have' to be instant swap. Treating it like ammo and requiring a reload period allows you to actually put tank on your ECM ships without having to armour tank them while still being able to adapt to the targets fleet comp. Higher fitting requirements in return might also be a good thing to make it hard to fit a full rack of ECM if they were swappable like that. In my opinion an ECM ship should be hard to get a good tank on while at the same time stay an effective jammer, this in some ways counter the "I can't do **** to you for 20s" by letting you almost instapop the guy when you finally got a lock. We agree that there should be a trade off. If you want max jams your tank suffers. If you want tank then you fit fewer jammers. ECM is the only EWAR that can't simultaneously fit tank and be effective against any target. That should be fixed. ECM shouldn't take fitting four racial modules to be effective against any target. Just like sensor damps, tracking disruptors, missile disruptors, target painters, neuts, nos, disruptors, and scrams shouldn't take four racial modules to be effective against any target.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2982	Posted - 2016.02.15 19:45:29 - [74] - Quote Zetakya wrote: A scripted ECM with a 60s "install" timer will actually be slower than the current refit system, because once your Yurt is down refitting only costs you however much time it takes to warp out & in (which you are probably doing anyway to evade tacklers & alpha strike attempts). If anything, a scripted ECM will be less flexible than the current racial system, as a script would make the off-race jam strength zero (assuming it works the same way as all other scripts), removing the option of trying off-race jams in desperation. I'm not asking for a huge buff to ECM here; I'm just asking for the game mechanic to be changed from the current clunky "Depot & Hold full of Racials" to a script system (with a script install timer) that streamlines the existing gameplay. Only in the situation you are describing will it be slower. In the middle of a fight when new people join to third party, it will be faster. Also nothing says it has to be 60 sec. I'd be happy with 20 or 30 sec also. The main point is to make it a significant opportunity lost to change racial scripts, encouraging some use of the module in omni mode because some jam now is worth more than no jam now in some cases. Scripted jams will also mean you no longer have to have 6 jams fitted to be able to do your job, but 2 or 3 jams, allowing for shield tanked ECM fits, sure people will still run with 6, but it will no longer be considered a requirement but an option.
Strom Harrison Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.02.16 00:24:09 - [75] - Quote Altrue wrote: Why not remove all this racial stuff and make ECM scriptables? Especially now that ECCMs are integrated into a widespread module that is sensor boosters... Suggestion: Not really expecting it since it's way more dev-intensive than tweaking numbers, but what about sensor strength turning into a ressource much like capacitor ? With the same passive regeneration curve. Remove the random element of ECMs, have them slowly take away chunks of the target's sensor strength until it's unable to lock. With sebos and remote sebos acting as "logi" on your sensor strength. No more randomness. More fairness for both the ECM (ensured efficiency, albeit after some time) and its victim (fair time to kill the ECM or "broadcast for ECCM"). The suggestion section of this comment is on to something. It's got team play options, it removes RNG, it goes well with the sebo changes-- This is by far the best solution to the ECM question I've come across. +1
Aliventi Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies. 916	Posted - 2016.02.20 16:35:20 - [76] - Quote CCP Fozzie: Can you tell us why Citadels are getting ECM but ships aren't?
Mad Abbat Talon Swarm 65	Posted - 2016.02.21 07:26:08 - [77] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Hey folks thanks for the feedback so far. To answer a few of the common questions: Q: Why make separate modules instead of using a script on existing TDs? A: We believe that the script method would make TDs too powerful. Using separate modules means that weapon disruption ships can hedge their bets by fitting a spread of TDs and MDs, but that they'll have smaller numbers of each. tl:dr they want you to carry 4 sets of ECM and mobile dopot. That is valuable gameplay. As an innabily to engage target in 1v1 as you have wrong module equipped.
Judas Lonestar Stryker Industries 127	Posted - 2016.02.22 02:55:12 - [78] - Quote Honestly, in the interest of KISS, I'd much rather see just 4 modules that function as multispecs, then allow the use of scripts for selecting the bonus to racial jams. I realize this would remove a bit of the commitment in having to choose with racial jammer to use (As you would effectively have any of them at a moments notice) but it would simplify the module structure and thats never a bad thing.
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 2001	Posted - 2016.02.22 14:06:06 - [79] - Quote Judas Lonestar wrote: Honestly, in the interest of KISS, I'd much rather see just 4 modules that function as multispecs, then allow the use of scripts for selecting the bonus to racial jams. I realize this would remove a bit of the commitment in having to choose with racial jammer to use (As you would effectively have any of them at a moments notice) but it would simplify the module structure and thats never a bad thing. Plus, given that sensor boosters will now act as ECCM, a diminution in the amount of commitment wouldn't hurt. Signature Tanking Best Tanking Retired Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - Ex-BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 1099	Posted - 2016.03.01 06:44:31 - [80] - Quote Mark Hadden wrote: keep dumbing down your game for idiots who cant remember which ECM module is against which race. Why dont you rename "radar" to "amarr", "ladar" to "minmatar" etc.. while you are at it, makes it even easier for rtards. Or go even one step further and get rid of race names and call them like red, green, yellow and blue maybe? For those who cant deal with race names and mix them together. This would make sure even the least intelligent moron would be able to safely apply right ewar modules onto enemy ships. Sometimes I feel that EVE has become a refugee camp for pseudo-intellectuals of all sorts and colours. Thankfully, people who actually halfway smart understand that memorizing arbitrary correspondences (aren't it Minmatar who are supposed to use simple, but efficient tech like radars?) has nothing to do with intelligence. Or who can read and see that this isn't even the point, or effect, of the change. Sorry for off-topic, but this is the category of EVE players, existence of which was bugging me for years by now. Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become

Old Pervert Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.03.01 18:45:24 - [81] - Quote The people who hate ECM hate it because you get locked out for at least 20 seconds, even perma-jammed. This makes your ship useless, etc. It also takes no skill to use. My suggestion: No RNG. You hit them with an ECM, they're jammed; just like RSD, and TD 4 second jam, 20 second cycle time Scripts to increase range or reduce cycle time, at a cost of jam time. Balancing Benefits: You can't perma-jam something unless you stack ECM, preventing you from getting tank and ECM If you don't time your modules properly (player skill / presence of mind) you won't lock out anything efficiently the long cycle time means you must commit to your decision to jam something (again, player skill). AKA tactical decisions. due to the short duration, ECM pilots are more vulnerable to tackles, meaning they must be more careful RSD buffs snipers; you simply cannot engage a sniper if you have RSD on you. You may as well be locked out. TD buffs sped tanks; you cannot engage a speed tank while someone has TD on you. You may as well be locked out. ECM provides broad spectrum lockout, at a cost of being a tactical decision and much harder to use. Different methods of the same goal. Edit: This also completely removes / negates the need to merge ECCM and SeBo. A SeBo can increase sensor resolution, making lock time faster, giving you time to instapop the low tank ECM ship. ECCM can effectively go away, and a SeBo script can be used as another tactical decision (range script for RSD, res script for ECM - heck you could even add a tracking script and do away with tracking mods). You want tactical decisions, there you have it.
Beldantazar Empyrean Acolytes 2	Posted - 2016.03.01 19:25:33 - [82] - Quote Old Pervert wrote: The people who hate ECM hate it because you get locked out for at least 20 seconds, even perma-jammed. This makes your ship useless, etc. It also takes no skill to use. My suggestion: No RNG. You hit them with an ECM, they're jammed; just like RSD, and TD 4 second jam, 20 second cycle time Scripts to increase range or reduce cycle time, at a cost of jam time. Balancing Benefits: You can't perma-jam something unless you stack ECM, preventing you from getting tank and ECM If you don't time your modules properly (player skill / presence of mind) you won't lock out anything efficiently the long cycle time means you must commit to your decision to jam something (again, player skill). AKA tactical decisions. due to the short duration, ECM pilots are more vulnerable to tackles, meaning they must be more careful RSD buffs snipers; you simply cannot engage a sniper if you have RSD on you. You may as well be locked out. TD buffs sped tanks; you cannot engage a speed tank while someone has TD on you. You may as well be locked out. ECM provides broad spectrum lockout, at a cost of being a tactical decision and much harder to use. Different methods of the same goal. Edit: This also completely removes / negates the need to merge ECCM and SeBo. A SeBo can increase sensor resolution, making lock time faster, giving you time to instapop the low tank ECM ship. ECCM can effectively go away, and a SeBo script can be used as another tactical decision (range script for RSD, res script for ECM - heck you could even add a tracking script and do away with tracking mods). You want tactical decisions, there you have it. I agree that the RNG is a weird mechanic, but since turrets also have it, it's not really that weird (though i do think having falloff for the ecm might be an interesting idea). On the other hand, if you think it takes no skill to use, i would say that you are smoking something. That said, this is an interesting idea, but it would definitely require the caldari ewar ships to get bonuses to reduce cycle time.
Old Pervert Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.03.01 20:01:28 - [83] - Quote Beldantazar wrote: I agree that the RNG is a weird mechanic, but since turrets also have it, it's not really that weird (though i do think having falloff for the ecm might be an interesting idea). On the other hand, if you think it takes no skill to use, i would say that you are smoking something. That said, this is an interesting idea, but it would definitely require the caldari ewar ships to get bonuses to reduce cycle time. ECM itself requires absolutely no skill... target, activate, laugh. I do it in griffins on corp roams while we're killing billion isk ships. I'm training for the Falcon now, because it looks like sexy fun times. I want EWAR to be viable, but I also want it to be balanced. I agree that Caldari EWAR ships would require some kind of ECM bonus, so how about: (ECM str) / (Sensor Str) * Multiplier * Cycle Time = Jam Time So say: 5.5 ECM / 20 Sensor * 0.75 Multi * 20s Cycle = 4.125 Second Jam That way Caldari EWAR retain their ECM strength traits. The multiplier is added to make tweaking to an "acceptable" jam time simple.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1648	Posted - 2016.03.04 10:04:08 - [84] - Quote Old Pervert wrote: Beldantazar wrote: I agree that the RNG is a weird mechanic, but since turrets also have it, it's not really that weird (though i do think having falloff for the ecm might be an interesting idea). On the other hand, if you think it takes no skill to use, i would say that you are smoking something. That said, this is an interesting idea, but it would definitely require the caldari ewar ships to get bonuses to reduce cycle time. ECM itself requires absolutely no skill... target, activate, laugh. I do it in griffins on corp roams while we're killing billion isk ships. I'm training for the Falcon now, because it looks like sexy fun times. I want EWAR to be viable, but I also want it to be balanced. I take it you don't fly ECM its the most skill intensive e-war in the game its not show up, lock, jam this is generally only the case when you have a crap tone of jams and why i think it needs the stacking penalty i mentioned before. for one you should never have more Green jams then you have targets. you also need to know when to activate your next jam or hold it in case something else comes. you need to know when its worth using an off racial jam. you need to know when to start aligning and when to warp. once you start working with damps it gets even more complex and none of this even touches the pre-flight fitting. and when they do work they are no stronger than properly used damps also i just noticed ECM bursts got nerfed and lost their fall of for a bit of extra optimal if this is the case can we get SDA to at least effect burst optimal or a second moudle for that. The have lost 8km range and thats before skill and hull bonuses Citadel worm hole tax
Lane Wyeth-XXVI Got Tired Of Taxes 4	Posted - 2016.03.07 21:48:59 - [85] - Quote I love how the first page is a ton of people complaining about ecms being too strong or unfair but I can tell they dont fly ecms Any good fleet will primary a ecm boat as it can disrupt a large amount of dps (fly a griffin in a fleet a few times and see) Ecms are suppose to be as powerful as they are because there is that chance to them, no other ewar can fail having to wait 20 secs to hopefully jam the target you missed when you are (hopefully) being primaried by the opposing force As well as ecms being rather lacking flown on a nonbonused hull, the ecm boats themselves are very squishy and can be popped easily In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen: GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
Kiddoomer Deep Space Exploitation Federal United Battalion of Armed Renegades 95	Posted - 2016.03.07 22:49:56 - [86] - Quote Lane Wyeth-XXVI wrote: In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen: GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ I was looking everywhere for this quote, thank you I agree mostly about the ECM problem has now, ecm can be applied or not, sometimes work and sometimes dont, but any tracking disruptor, energy nos or neut or sensor dampener will work as soon as the target is locked and never stop until death of the ships, ships that can for the most part tank and do ewar, while the ecm ship is sometimes useful, sometimes useless and can die easily. A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
Dantaniel Tsukaya THR3SHOLD 0	Posted - 2016.03.08 21:36:16 - [87] - Quote I'd love a small mini-game coupled with the ECM module. Something similiar too hacking exploration sites but smaller. Then you have too be in control of your surroundings, it becomes harder than just "push button and wait" AND it would give the opponents a better chance of surviving while the ecm pilot has to multitask much more while affected by adrenaline and any possible threats from victims mates.
Agent Skie Blackstone and Fairfield Transuniversal Sentinels of Sukanan Alliance 0	Posted - 2016.03.09 21:25:23 - [88] - Quote I agree with many here about the Racial type argument, however its not so much that u would need to know before hand who u will be fighting so to fit the right module. That mechanic I think is too much to ask of most new people and smaller groups. and It usually means the default is to use a multi-spectrum. I realize CCP have reams of logs showing I'm wrong and that people actually do use racial in fights, but I'm sure that is mostly because the majority of the numbers are from big alliances fighting other big alliances who already know what their ship doctrine is, same for ECCM, etc.. There is more than one way to interpret many of these charts we get shown of how often things are used in the game. But my suggestion is to make virtually all 'Assistance' modules (like drone damage, drone navigation, Eccm, ECM, Weapon enhancement modules, etc) to be scriptable. This would do things like: Allow one Jammer/tracking disruptor type Module to be fitted and like ammo they can change the script to match any race or jam/disruption type. And with no script would be multispectrum. and like ammo various tiers of script could have bonus to cap, cpu use, strength , etc. replace all Drone mods with one module that gets its effect thru use of scripts that allow bonuses that all the mods have now - IE. Damage, tracking, etc., This would work especially in well in the drones that don't get much use now, like web, target painting drones, etc. Dropping various modules in the game, that now have many versions, replacing them with one mod that uses scripts would also make it easy to add new effects to the game down the road - just introduce a new script into the game - such as when using ECM drones u could boost their strength, damage, Control range, Speed, DPS, range, racial type of ECM, as well as many new bonus or effects not thought of yet - just by switching scripts. So instead of dropping various tiers of modules as loot, it would drop various scripts. I know there are (old) reasons for having Module Tiers and this idea may cause me to be trolled, but on the positive side give it some thought as to how you would use swapping scripts in combat as the nature of the combat changes from beginning to end of a fight - and how many new tactics would be available with a feature such as this. It would also save some slots for fitting other things and the more modules u have the stronger the effects u can do or the more u could do at one time. Just my 2-cents worth on the idea
Tzuko1 FREE GATES FREE GATES COALITION 17	Posted - 2016.03.09 23:09:29 - [89] - Quote We've testing the new ECM modules and its bugged. Before the patch once you jemmed someone it was a full circle of the module on the target once it wasnt jamming it was Grey. Now its totally random, you cant tell if its works or not. The modules works totally random on showing u jamming or not. We tried this with 3 different people and the feedback on your jamm worked or not is totally bugged. Please CCP fix it !
J Connrad Buzzard Bait and Salvage VLLC 0	Posted - 2016.03.10 04:14:32 - [90] - Quote Tzuko1 wrote: We've testing the new ECM modules and its bugged. Before the patch once you jemmed someone it was a full circle of the module on the target once it wasnt jamming it was Grey. Now its totally random, you cant tell if its works or not. The modules works totally random on showing u jamming or not. We tried this with 3 different people and the feedback on your jamm worked or not is totally bugged. Please CCP fix it ! Same here

Tiffany Thorn The Brothel Cartel 5	Posted - 2016.03.10 07:40:17 - [91] - Quote Flyinghotpocket wrote: if ccp devs were true in listening to what their players want. then RIP out this stupid AS ** mechanic and put in something that isnt rage inducing. a ship with 300 sensor strength vs a 15 strength jam should never EVER EVER EVER JAM. EVER. nobody here wants to see this crap tiercided, everybody in the entire universe wants to see a new freaking mechanic. Stop. Just stop. Not everyone wants what you want. Not everyone wants this mechanic removed. Just you and every other ****** eJock and DudeBro who are too damn stupid to understand anything other than "DEE PEE ESS!" What I want is for my 250mil T2 ship with any tank or weapons, to actually have a guarantee of functioning when I activate my modules. Come back when your shiny ship has to roll on a stupid RNG table, which is NOT in your favor, every time you activate any of your guns, only to find out that you don't get to do anything for 20 secs while you wait for another chance to roll on the table again. Until then, spare us from your ignorant brain-dead rants.
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard 72	Posted - 2016.03.10 19:11:53 - [92] - Quote Old Pervert wrote: The people who hate ECM hate it because you get locked out for at least 20 seconds, even perma-jammed. This makes your ship useless, etc. It also takes no skill to use. My suggestion: No RNG. You hit them with an ECM, they're jammed; just like RSD, and TD 4 second jam, 20 second cycle time Scripts to increase range or reduce cycle time, at a cost of jam time. Balancing Benefits: You can't perma-jam something unless you stack ECM, preventing you from getting tank and ECM If you don't time your modules properly (player skill / presence of mind) you won't lock out anything efficiently the long cycle time means you must commit to your decision to jam something (again, player skill). AKA tactical decisions. due to the short duration, ECM pilots are more vulnerable to tackles, meaning they must be more careful RSD buffs snipers; you simply cannot engage a sniper if you have RSD on you. You may as well be locked out. TD buffs sped tanks; you cannot engage a speed tank while someone has TD on you. You may as well be locked out. ECM provides broad spectrum lockout, at a cost of being a tactical decision and much harder to use. Different methods of the same goal. Edit: This also completely removes / negates the need to merge ECCM and SeBo. A SeBo can increase sensor resolution, making lock time faster, giving you time to instapop the low tank ECM ship. ECCM can effectively go away, and a SeBo script can be used as another tactical decision (range script for RSD, res script for ECM - heck you could even add a tracking script and do away with tracking mods). You want tactical decisions, there you have it. I agree - but there would be a flood of tears if the "perma-damps" changed to being effective for 4 seconds followed by a 20 second cool down . Maybe even apply the logic to the "perma-Tracking disruptors" so while being orbited by a kite I get shoot with normal tracking for 20 seconds followed by 4 seconds of tracking loss. When you look at how the other e-war mods work ECM is a bit of a poor cousin. Tho the stacking ECM for perma jam sounds nice... click 4 sec jam, click 4 second jam , click 4 second jam, 5 clicks and you perma jam anything - where's my Falcon with all those mid slots
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2664	Posted - 2016.03.10 19:16:46 - [93] - Quote Old Pervert wrote: The people who hate ECM hate it because you get locked out for at least 20 seconds, even perma-jammed. This makes your ship useless, etc. It also takes no skill to use. My suggestion: No RNG. You hit them with an ECM, they're jammed; just like RSD, and TD 4 second jam, 20 second cycle time Scripts to increase range or reduce cycle time, at a cost of jam time. 3 ECM module cycling on a 7 second delay from each others will be just as rage inducing to people with that system. A falcon would probably be able to fit 4 and leave you with 4 x 1 second period of availability on your targetting system. How incredibly fun.
master robbery Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.03.12 00:16:52 - [94] - Quote ECM broken?
Starry Caldari Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.03.13 11:48:21 - [95] - Quote As a beginner player, ECM drones are my only hope of survival when I undock from a high sec station and a giant "big S" shadow of a barn roof (Svipul that is) engulfs me in flames. ECM drones give me a faint chance to fight back and die with dignity. For those who are complaining that they have to carry ECCM modules against ECM attack, well, guess what, I am also not happy to waste my low slots with warp core stabilizers if there weren't any scrambled egg modules out there. Yeah, thatGÇÖs how things roll in New Eden, get used to it and stop complaining about my lil ECM pets. (Come here sweetie, come, here is your Fedo paste, nom nom, whoGÇÖs the good boy? awwww! Yes, you are!)
Poranius Fisc State War Academy Caldari State 29	Posted - 2016.03.15 18:46:12 - [96] - Quote Altrue wrote: Why not remove all this racial stuff and make ECM scriptables? Especially now that ECCMs are integrated into a widespread module that is sensor boosters... Suggestion: Not really expecting it since it's way more dev-intensive than tweaking numbers, but what about sensor strength turning into a ressource much like capacitor ? With the same passive regeneration curve. Remove the random element of ECMs, have them slowly take away chunks of the target's sensor strength until it's unable to lock. With sebos and remote sebos acting as "logi" on your sensor strength. No more randomness. More fairness for both the ECM (ensured efficiency, albeit after some time) and its victim (fair time to kill the ECM or "broadcast for ECCM"). your plan is interesting, but with how your idea works, odds are a good ecm ship can do this while a newer player would get blown to spacedust.


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