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Derrys
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.02.09 01:46:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico T2 BPO Overlords? I think you got a few bolts lose in your nugget. Not all t2 bpo's is a gold mine, in fact just a very few is of the whole total.
Exactly -- and those are the ones that Invention will compete with. That's why it's so brilliant: people will only Invent the modules that have the huge markups; the other stuff isn't worth it. It'll nerf the ISK-printing machines, but leave the mid-level T2 producers alone. Everybody wins.
Quote: Imho it failed, because the cost of invention jobs + the build of the item ended up higher than the t2 modules was available for on the market.
Well, I don't know what to tell you. I've had the opposite experience.
Quote: And yes Im happy you made your wallet fat on invention so forth that invention is your happyland atm, but as you might have noticed there is many on this forum that doesnt share that view.
I haven't heard any cogent arguments about how Invention is broken. In particular, I'm still waiting to hear a single good reason why people would be paying 20M per datacore if Invention weren't profitable. Seriously, why would they throw their money away if it didn't work for them?
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Derrys
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.02.09 01:49:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Minmatar Citizen 6244 T2 congolmerate determines that in order for invention to be profitable datacores have to drop below X price.
They decide to maintain buy orders for X+1 in order to ensure that they are never profitable.
Except datacores are not a fixed resource. There are barriers to entry, but they're not insurmountable. If T2 owners manipulate the market to raise datacore prices, they're only encouraging more people to enter the datacore production business. Buying all those new datacores at inflated prices is going to add up to some serious cash in short order. And what's worse, it'll be a vicious cycle.
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.09 01:50:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Derrys
I haven't heard any cogent arguments about how Invention is broken. In particular, I'm still waiting to hear a single good reason why people would be paying 20M per datacore if Invention weren't profitable. Seriously, why would they throw their money away if it didn't work for them?
re-read the op's post. I believe his current is half a bill minus on his jobs.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Ione Hunt
Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.02.09 01:56:00 -
[64]
*Ione Hunt gags Derrys
You gave enough hints already!
@OP: You were unlucky so far. However, try building another module, one that is more profitable and less costly to produce. Also, find another way to get your datacores. _______________
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Colonel Branigain
E Systems
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Posted - 2007.02.09 01:56:00 -
[65]
My only invention efforts have been toward rig inventions.
Thus far my first effort included using 2 hydro datacores, 2 quantum datacores, I used a m3 200 bpc I had copied from a bpo I had set that high as an experiment. I built the base item (the 20% shield recharge rig-- cant think of the name atm) and plugged in the cosmos thingy that said "use this when you have to get it right"... results 4 run bpc, me -7 pe-4 or something like that of the t2 shield recharge rig (25% shield recharge rate per rig)... Useful item really.
Second effort involved the cap recharge rig.. but failed when I tried to use the item that supposedly raised the quality of the bpc "prototype diagram" I think was the name. Message of failure said something like *close but not close enough* or some such. Results.. no isk made as profits and probably never will be on the rig efforts. But a bpc of a very useful item. (Which I am currently trying to sell for isk to fund further invention efforts)
DAtacore prices are awefully steep, as such invention is kind of an expensive hobby atm.
Definitely not something to get into to make a bundle of isk, but if you want to build some items you really need and you are in a backwater constellation, or if you need items that no one is selling then it can be for you. Don't expect to get rich from it.
Thats my opinion. Flame away We hate Mirph, its the kind of personal, deep down loathing that makes you pet your favorite gun and smile. Yes we hate Mirph, the kind of hate that keeps our lasers warm, and our railguns low on ammo |
Effei Gloom
Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 02:30:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Minmatar Citizen 6244 Think about this for a second:
T2 congolmerate determines that in order for invention to be profitable datacores have to drop below X price.
They decide to maintain buy orders for X+1 in order to ensure that they are never profitable.
They minimize losses by doing invention themselves, ergo only people with a ton of money and T2 bpos can actually do any invention. They continue to maintain huge profit levels, and eliminate competition.
I hope CCP thought about this angle when they designed this flawed system. but it sure dosen't look that way.
It looks like this is comming to life once invention could be a danger to superrich t2 bpo owners. A Hulk bpo owner could buy all Gallente starship datacores , say under 20 mill value, screwing all afford to invent a hulk bpc. Sure the datacore sellers would make some isk but Hulk prices would not drop ... So how is invention going to work? I must have missed something :)
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Biancia
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2007.02.09 02:45:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Effei Gloom
Originally by: Minmatar Citizen 6244 Think about this for a second:
T2 congolmerate determines that in order for invention to be profitable datacores have to drop below X price.
They decide to maintain buy orders for X+1 in order to ensure that they are never profitable.
They minimize losses by doing invention themselves, ergo only people with a ton of money and T2 bpos can actually do any invention. They continue to maintain huge profit levels, and eliminate competition.
I hope CCP thought about this angle when they designed this flawed system. but it sure dosen't look that way.
It looks like this is comming to life once invention could be a danger to superrich t2 bpo owners. A Hulk bpo owner could buy all Gallente starship datacores , say under 20 mill value, screwing all afford to invent a hulk bpc. Sure the datacore sellers would make some isk but Hulk prices would not drop ... So how is invention going to work? I must have missed something :)
To be honest .... anyone doing invention should have there own research agents going and not depend on the market to supply ( that doesn't mean they are free when calculating profitability of invention )
What I would like to know is this ... I can't find out any info that helps or what percent or any info ... yes I know the best named of the module or decrypt module ... but curious on other info .. have done some inventioning and plan to do more but would be nice to find out more
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.02.09 09:10:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Effei Gloom It looks like this is comming to life once invention could be a danger to superrich t2 bpo owners. A Hulk bpo owner could buy all Gallente starship datacores , say under 20 mill value, screwing all afford to invent a hulk bpc. Sure the datacore sellers would make some isk but Hulk prices would not drop ... So how is invention going to work? I must have missed something :)
It will balance itself out at the end: If Hulk producers buy all the datacores, people will sell more datacores, and/or create R&D alts giving them more datacores to sell, until the producers can't buy them all anymore, and the price will drop. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Effei Gloom
Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 11:56:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Effei Gloom on 09/02/2007 11:54:48
Originally by: Biancia Edited by: Biancia on 09/02/2007 03:26:48
Originally by: Effei Gloom
Originally by: Minmatar Citizen 6244 Think about this for a second:
T2 congolmerate determines that in order for invention to be profitable datacores have to drop below X price.
They decide to maintain buy orders for X+1 in order to ensure that they are never profitable.
They minimize losses by doing invention themselves, ergo only people with a ton of money and T2 bpos can actually do any invention. They continue to maintain huge profit levels, and eliminate competition.
I hope CCP thought about this angle when they designed this flawed system. but it sure dosen't look that way.
It looks like this is comming to life once invention could be a danger to superrich t2 bpo owners. A Hulk bpo owner could buy all Gallente starship datacores , say under 20 mill value, screwing all afford to invent a hulk bpc. Sure the datacore sellers would make some isk but Hulk prices would not drop ... So how is invention going to work? I must have missed something :)
To be honest .... anyone doing invention should have there own research agents going and not depend on the market to supply ( that doesn't mean they are free when calculating profitability of invention )
Even if you use your own datacores, they still have the market value
"It will balance itself out at the end: If Hulk producers buy all the datacores, people will sell more datacores, and/or create R&D alts giving them more datacores to sell, until the producers can't buy them all anymore, and the price will drop."
Is not 100% true, you could just use the datacores to produce T2 bs instead, no need to let the bought datacores lying around.
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Risingson
Mezzanine Inc
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Posted - 2007.02.11 16:55:00 -
[70]
compiled a decryptor table using data from eve.coldfront.net and assumptions i made via posts in this thread: only works ingame! http://eve.databased.at/decryptors.asp |
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.02.11 17:58:00 -
[71]
Cloak invention is still screwed. Even if you count the jobs that succeed but give improved BPCs as a "fail" - because the improveds dont make profit, they make a loss, and giving you an overall Covops CLoak II success rate of about 30% (compared to 60-70% on other mods), EVEN at 14 runs output instead of the old 40, you can still make a profit per unit. Joy! the population screams, so you're going to make some and slowly bring the COCD II prices down from 75m yeah? Well no, not if I need 1 max-run protocloak BPC per job, and they take TEN DAYS to copy.
Furthermore, because we're looking at a sucess rate of only 30 or so %, unlike other mods its not statistically clever to do jobs in 4-job batches (where i can have 50, 75, 100% success each batch), it needs to be more like 10 jobs - that way I can get 2-4 COCD II BPC, 2-4 improved cloak II BPC (useless) and 2-4 fails. 3, 3 and 4 is fairly normal. So, I need 10 BPCs at a time - so thats THREE MONTHS OF COPY TIME. With only one copy slot per lab array its just not economical to tie it up for 3 months just for 1 batch.
This is because the proto cloak I BPO is still treated as a T2 bpo, with insane copy times and research times. The only solution really is to buy and research NINE other cloak BPOs in order to be able to do a batch every 10 days, and buy 9 more lab arrays to do copying simultaneously. So another 1.8bn then, plus an immense drain on a lab's resources and a lot more hassle.
CCP needs to change the now t1 cloak BPO's stats to reflect its t1 status. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected]) |
Effei Gloom
Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.11 22:15:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Effei Gloom on 11/02/2007 22:11:12
Breakthrough updated with job 5-6
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.12 11:04:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Effei Gloom Edited by: Effei Gloom on 11/02/2007 22:11:12
Breakthrough updated with job 5-6
From what I could see from your sales post on that Vaga bpc. You ended up with a hard to sell expensive trinket. :/
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Bermag
Point-Zero Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.12 11:17:00 -
[74]
Originally by: El Yatta This is because the proto cloak I BPO is still treated as a T2 bpo, with insane copy times and research times. The only solution really is to buy and research NINE other cloak BPOs in order to be able to do a batch every 10 days, and buy 9 more lab arrays to do copying simultaneously. So another 1.8bn then, plus an immense drain on a lab's resources and a lot more hassle.
CCP needs to change the now t1 cloak BPO's stats to reflect its t1 status.
I agree, 3 hours 20 min base time to copy a single bpc. 10+ days for a 100 run bpc if you have Science V.
I think this is something CCP forgot to change when making it a "T1" BPO. Still use T2 components etc but I can live with that as long as they change the copy time.
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Evil Oreo
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:24:00 -
[75]
I think one thing the OP was trying to convey that many of you "success stories" are missing is this:
1. Everything has a market value
2. The difference in the market value of items needed to invent and items recieved from invention yields a negative margin
Really, if you have found an easier way to get data cores, you need to be selling them, not blowing them on invention trying to prove a point.
CCP's aim in invention was to allow a way for people to enter the T2 market profitibly, thus increasing supply, thus lowering prices. All it has done, as many have mentioned, is created an expensive hobby.
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Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
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Posted - 2007.02.12 12:48:00 -
[76]
hm...i earn isk everytime, till now in plus 1,8b ISK I cannot tell you which one items/ships..invented
______________________________________________ Husaria recruits based on legendary XVI century Polish winged cavalry |
Derrys
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.02.12 13:51:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Evil Oreo CCP's aim in invention was to allow a way for people to enter the T2 market profitibly, thus increasing supply, thus lowering prices. All it has done, as many have mentioned, is created an expensive hobby.
That ignores the crucial fact that the only reason datacores have value in the first place is because of Invention. That's important because it means blanket statements such as "Invention is just an expensive hobby" are shortsighted -- if nobody were doing Invention, nobody would be selling datacores either.
The truth is more subtle: the relative value of selling datacores and performing Invention is subject to market forces. It's possible (likely, in fact), that the datacore market is temporarily inflated because so many people are willing to try Invention for the novelty factor, even if they end up taking a loss. However, that won't be the case for very long, and eventually things will settle into an equilibrium.
Exactly what that equilibrium will be depends on the relative difficulties of the two parts of the process: producing datacores and turning them into T2 BPCs. The fact of the matter is that the second stage is trivially easy; Inventing items is effortless if you have the datacores. Producing the datacores is more difficult. It a larger investment of skill training, and it takes time: either time for your agents to accumulate RP, or time spent looking for Hacking complexes and acquiring datacores that way.
For that reason, no, you'll never be able to make huge piles of money simply by buying datacores off the market and turning them into T2 equipment, which is the complaint I'm seeing here.
All that said, I'll reiterate what I've posted several times: I've had no problem at all making a significant profit with Invention, even assuming I'd bought the datacores off the market. It's just a matter of running the numbers and using good sense.
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Drethon
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Posted - 2007.02.12 13:57:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Effei Gloom Even if you use your own datacores, they still have the market value
There is a minor misnomer in this. Datacores have market value if you can sell them for that price. I'm not saying is the case as I'm too poor of a trader to get started in heavy manufacturing and inventing but the value is the value they will sell for, not the value they are priced at so the market value may be lower than it appears.
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:28:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Derrys
For that reason, no, you'll never be able to make huge piles of money simply by buying datacores off the market and turning them into T2 equipment, which is the complaint I'm seeing here.
All that said, I'll reiterate what I've posted several times: I've had no problem at all making a significant profit with Invention, even assuming I'd bought the datacores off the market. It's just a matter of running the numbers and using good sense.
My biggest consern is not so much make much profit out of it. I want to use the invention to build tech2 modules for corp at cheaper cost than it would to buy it from the market. And that doesnt include just expanded cargo hold 2, cap recharger 2 etc. Invention shouldnt only be doable when the module you invent got a mark up of several thousand percent.
The datacores itself got a market value. Even you found it in a can, its still worth what you can get for it on the market. No point in invention if you can sell the datacores at higher profit for your time spent than items produced through invention.
There is also to small difference between the decryptors as well, + some of them bloody hard or next to impossible to find (such as assembly instructions). The nerf on the runs + failed jobs made invention in generel not worth it. As someone said its an expensive hobby.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Derrys
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:43:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico My biggest consern is not so much make much profit out of it. I want to use the invention to build tech2 modules for corp at cheaper cost than it would to buy it from the market.
Then do profitable Invention jobs and use the money to buy T2 items for your corp. Or, if you prefer, sell the datacores and use the money to buy the T2 items. Same end results with fewer headaches for you.
Quote: The datacores itself got a market value.
Here's where it's more complicated than you seem to believe. The datacore doesn't have any value by itself. It only has value because of Invention. You just need to be patient and wait for an equilibrium to be established. Once the novelty of Invention wears off, datacore prices will fall to the point where it's possible to make a profit off of it, however small.
Quote: No point in invention if you can sell the datacores at higher profit for your time spent than items produced through invention.
And we're back to what I've been saying all along: in the long run, the only reason people will pay high prices for datacores is because Invention is profitable. If you're failing to make a profit off of it, then you need to figure out what it is they're doing that you're not.
Quote: The nerf on the runs + failed jobs made invention in generel not worth it. As someone said its an expensive hobby.
The problem is, restoring the larger number of runs wouldn't have any effect on the thing you're complaining about. If you increase the runs again, the only effect it will have is to increase the market value of datacores. Nearly all the additional profit will fall into the hands of the datacore producers, not the people doing Invention. Things were only different in the early days because the market never got a chance to stabilize.
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Chips Ahoy
Minmatar GalacTECH Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:08:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Derrys
Originally by: Evil Oreo CCP's aim in invention was to allow a way for people to enter the T2 market profitibly, thus increasing supply, thus lowering prices. All it has done, as many have mentioned, is created an expensive hobby.
That ignores the crucial fact that the only reason datacores have value in the first place is because of Invention. That's important because it means blanket statements such as "Invention is just an expensive hobby" are shortsighted -- if nobody were doing Invention, nobody would be selling datacores either.
The truth is more subtle: the relative value of selling datacores and performing Invention is subject to market forces. It's possible (likely, in fact), that the datacore market is temporarily inflated because so many people are willing to try Invention for the novelty factor, even if they end up taking a loss. However, that won't be the case for very long, and eventually things will settle into an equilibrium.
Exactly what that equilibrium will be depends on the relative difficulties of the two parts of the process: producing datacores and turning them into T2 BPCs. The fact of the matter is that the second stage is trivially easy; Inventing items is effortless if you have the datacores. Producing the datacores is more difficult. It a larger investment of skill training, and it takes time: either time for your agents to accumulate RP, or time spent looking for Hacking complexes and acquiring datacores that way.
For that reason, no, you'll never be able to make huge piles of money simply by buying datacores off the market and turning them into T2 equipment, which is the complaint I'm seeing here.
All that said, I'll reiterate what I've posted several times: I've had no problem at all making a significant profit with Invention, even assuming I'd bought the datacores off the market. It's just a matter of running the numbers and using good sense.
I guess what I was trying to get at is that the value of datacores seem to be over inflated compared to the income potential of invention. The same thing happened to salvage loot and rigs and now it has stabilized, and I am confident that invention will balance out. I would just think that CCP would have made this value more obvious so you would alot of people saying "Woohoo new cash!" and because of the introduction of more t2 mods, a noticible price decrease. Instead you still have the ever ellusive T2 market permiating, the price gouging persistant, and overall failure of a fix to this, IMHO. This all spells little change to the current skewed system.
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Derrys
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:17:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Chips Ahoy I guess what I was trying to get at is that the value of datacores seem to be over inflated compared to the income potential of invention. The same thing happened to salvage loot and rigs and now it has stabilized, and I am confident that invention will balance out.
It will. There are two reasons datacore prices are so high right now: first, the T2 reseeding is still going on, so people are hoarding their RP hoping to get lucky. When this batch of BPOs is seeded, they'll cash out and dump datacores on the market.
And second, there are an awful lot of people experimenting with Invention right now. It's just the novelty value. People are playing around and not particularly concerned with making money, so they're paying way too much for datacores and driving prices up. That'll stop pretty soon too.
Quote: I would just think that CCP would have made this value more obvious so you would alot of people saying "Woohoo new cash!" and because of the introduction of more t2 mods, a noticible price decrease.
It'll happen, at least for the items with huge markups such as T2 guns, cloaks, and EANM's. Just give it time to work.
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:34:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Derrys
Originally by: Chips Ahoy I guess what I was trying to get at is that the value of datacores seem to be over inflated compared to the income potential of invention. The same thing happened to salvage loot and rigs and now it has stabilized, and I am confident that invention will balance out.
It will. There are two reasons datacore prices are so high right now: first, the T2 reseeding is still going on, so people are hoarding their RP hoping to get lucky. When this batch of BPOs is seeded, they'll cash out and dump datacores on the market.
And second, there are an awful lot of people experimenting with Invention right now. It's just the novelty value. People are playing around and not particularly concerned with making money, so they're paying way too much for datacores and driving prices up. That'll stop pretty soon too.
Quote: I would just think that CCP would have made this value more obvious so you would alot of people saying "Woohoo new cash!" and because of the introduction of more t2 mods, a noticible price decrease.
It'll happen, at least for the items with huge markups such as T2 guns, cloaks, and EANM's. Just give it time to work.
Yeah but it shouldnt be limited to modules with a huge mark up. Im aware its the players who keep price high, as the datacores only comes from players and their agents. This kind of related to how RAM tech back in the days only dropped from agents and prices went skyhigh. Now ram techs can be built from bpo's easily accessible on the market. Why not make datacores be player built and bring it another level. Although should require very high building skills, same with datadecryptors imho.
The penality for failed jobs is to severe as well. As it stand now only the tech1 bpc you use in the process should blow up if the job fails. That wouldn't make the penality that severe on your wallet, but rather on your time and effort.
It shouldnt take time to let it work, because all that lead to is leave invention to a very few to do, as its not a very lucrative thing to go into compared to other things in eve. Effort+time vs reward and all that. The price level datacores really need to drop down to to make invention more of a novelity wont happen imho, people are more interested in save their RP's and hope for a lucky strike.
The invention path is flawed, and waiting and give it time wont fix that imho :/
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Derrys
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:42:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico The invention path is flawed, and waiting and give it time wont fix that imho :/
I guess we just have different expectations about what Invention is supposed to accomplish. To me, its main purpose is to nerf the ISK-printing machines that some people received in the lottery (Cerberus, T2 weapons, etc.), and if I can make a little money off it along the way, so much the better.
I never expected it to compete with the mid-level T2 producers, who really don't make that much money, and I certainly never thought it would be cost effective to Invent every single T2 item in the game.
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:00:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Derrys
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico The invention path is flawed, and waiting and give it time wont fix that imho :/
I guess we just have different expectations about what Invention is supposed to accomplish. To me, its main purpose is to nerf the ISK-printing machines that some people received in the lottery (Cerberus, T2 weapons, etc.), and if I can make a little money off it along the way, so much the better.
I never expected it to compete with the mid-level T2 producers, who really don't make that much money, and I certainly never thought it would be cost effective to Invent every single T2 item in the game.
I never expected to compete with every t2 module due to invention either. But where goes the limit? 500% mark up? 1000%? several thousand? Just look at invention for ships. You need prices on t2 ships skyrocket high before invention there is worth the while consider the invnted prints give very bad terms regarding build cost.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Effei Gloom
Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.13 02:25:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
Originally by: Effei Gloom Edited by: Effei Gloom on 11/02/2007 22:11:12
Breakthrough updated with job 5-6
From what I could see from your sales post on that Vaga bpc. You ended up with a hard to sell expensive trinket. :/
Again: why should i sell under price? if none likes to have it, i will build it and make full profit. When it has not instandly sold, it only shows my price met its value.
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.13 22:38:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Effei Gloom
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
Originally by: Effei Gloom Edited by: Effei Gloom on 11/02/2007 22:11:12
Breakthrough updated with job 5-6
From what I could see from your sales post on that Vaga bpc. You ended up with a hard to sell expensive trinket. :/
Again: why should i sell under price? if none likes to have it, i will build it and make full profit. When it has not instandly sold, it only shows my price met its value.
Think you took my comment the wrong way -)
Even you build the ships from the bpc yourself you end up with expensive ships and the profit from the venture not exactly worth the effort and time spent? or?
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Ione Hunt
Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.02.13 23:19:00 -
[88]
ME/PE doesn't seem to have ANY influence in my experience _______________
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Jennifer Meek
Gallente Planck Bubble Generation Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.14 00:01:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Sally Look, you must draw a line somewher. Is 14 mil for T2 1400 too much? If it costs 1 mil to produce? Is 8 mil too much? Is 5 mil fair? Keep in mind, only year ago 1400 T2 costs 2 mils, and there was no complains, they was "special" and "expencive" enouth. You must draw a line somewhere, and IMO 3x of real production cost is MAXIMUM anyone should be able to charge regardless of how special that BPO is. That is the point there developers should aim when balancing invention. After all, we want a FREE market in eve, not some kind of artificial communist monopoly.
What you describe is actually, communism. The free market is if something is too expensive you don't have to buy it. If I put up expanded cargohold II's for 100 million ISK each, would you buy them?
If you put a limit on the return on investment, what your saying is that I should sell my expanders for 3x what it costs to make, so that a reseller buys out my stock and lists them for the market price.
No. ---
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Effei Gloom
Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.14 03:21:00 -
[90]
just stop buying overpriced stuff and all will be ok
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