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I N V E N T I O N my personel experience 1-3

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lizza beta	Posted - 2007.02.14 13:19:00 - [91] Edited by: lizza beta on 14/02/2007 13:16:42 so how much isk do you need to get starting in invention "small size"?
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.14 13:28:00 - [92] i would say, 500 mil - 1 bill after buying interfaces and skills post updated with job 7 "Sadly you were unable to produce anything of value in this job. Although you have a firm understanding of the basics of this job you were never close to a solution."
Bravest	Posted - 2007.02.14 15:04:00 - [93] >> Why should I sell something for 3x as much as it costs to make it when people will buy them instantly for 20-30-40-50-60x as much as it costs me to make? << Buy or die (to the player that has it). Well - it applies at least sometimes...
Psycho Somatic	Posted - 2007.02.14 17:53:00 - [94] WHAT IS THIS INVENTION YOU SPEAK OF?!
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:29:00 - [95] updated with value of sold HAC bpc
Jennifer Meek Gallente Planck Bubble Generation Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.15 00:23:00 - [96] Originally by: Bravest >> Why should I sell something for 3x as much as it costs to make it when people will buy them instantly for 20-30-40-50-60x as much as it costs me to make? << Buy or die (to the player that has it). Well - it applies at least sometimes... Expanded Cargohold II belonging to Jennifer Meek strikes you perfectly, wrecking for 12,000,000 ISK ---
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.15 19:39:00 - [97] Edited by: Effei Gloom on 15/02/2007 19:38:42 updated with job 8: failure total loss so far: 1004.2 mill isk Success chance with all related skills at lvl 4 is at moment about 25% One of four jobs has success. Assembly Instructions should give +30% change, so either HAC bpc have a base chance of -5% or i had bad luch so far.
Mirirar Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.02.15 22:25:00 - [98] you're paying way too much for datacores. learn to find them yourself, it's NOT hard. You could easily pull as many as you've been buying in a day.
Magunus The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:42:00 - [99] Out of morbid curiousity, have you tried using a tech 2 item as the seed? Many times, tech 2 is cheaper than the best named anyway, and you'd think that working from the item you're trying to produce would increase your chances. --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.15 23:43:00 - [100] Originally by: Mirirar you're paying way too much for datacores. learn to find them yourself, it's NOT hard. You could easily pull as many as you've been buying in a day. it goes way to slow gathering from agents even with multiple r&d agents. And through exploration, its not that easy imho. And you dont always find what you need. BUT! Even you get your hands on cheap datacores, they got a market value. If some get sold for 25m on market, the ones you found is not worthless, and your time is not free nor the effort. Not using calcs based on market prices is dumb. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk

Ione Hunt Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:08:00 - [101] Originally by: Effei Gloom ...or i had bad luck so far. That's it Effei (apart from the expensive data cores). Trust me, there is light at the end of the tunnel _______________
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:19:00 - [102] If you find the datacores in exploration sites, you buy them from your R&D agents or from market its all the same price/value. Only alternative are buy orders...
Ione Hunt Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:24:00 - [103] Originally by: Effei Gloom If you find the datacores in exploration sites, you buy them from your R&D agents or from market its all the same price/value. Only alternative are buy orders... Depending on module/ship, I don't even care about the price of datacores because of the huge profit margin. But you're on the right track with buy orders, now you just have to place 'em in the right systems/regions and you'll save a ton of isk. _______________
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:42:00 - [104] Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: Effei Gloom If you find the datacores in exploration sites, you buy them from your R&D agents or from market its all the same price/value. Only alternative are buy orders... Depending on module/ship, I don't even care about the price of datacores because of the huge profit margin. But you're on the right track with buy orders, now you just have to place 'em in the right systems/regions and you'll save a ton of isk. sure is it possibly to trade with Datacors, but i would like to see invention working, i am not much of a trader.
Ione Hunt Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.16 09:53:00 - [105] Originally by: Effei Gloom Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: Effei Gloom If you find the datacores in exploration sites, you buy them from your R&D agents or from market its all the same price/value. Only alternative are buy orders... Depending on module/ship, I don't even care about the price of datacores because of the huge profit margin. But you're on the right track with buy orders, now you just have to place 'em in the right systems/regions and you'll save a ton of isk. sure is it possibly to trade with Datacors, but i would like to see invention working, i am not much of a trader. Heh, me too. I'm not trading in datacores, invention works for me. The only sad thing is, that only a handful of modules of the T2 market are worth being invented. However, if you find such a module or ship, you won't moan about the price of datacores anymore because you'll still make a good profit even if you buy the datacores right from market in Jita. PS: Sorry for not telling you the module, but if you want you can convo me and I'll give you a few hints I made over 1.5bil in 3 days (maybe 2hrs of work in total), so I really think you're making something wrong... _______________
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.16 10:32:00 - [106] Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: Effei Gloom Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: Effei Gloom If you find the datacores in exploration sites, you buy them from your R&D agents or from market its all the same price/value. Only alternative are buy orders... Depending on module/ship, I don't even care about the price of datacores because of the huge profit margin. But you're on the right track with buy orders, now you just have to place 'em in the right systems/regions and you'll save a ton of isk. sure is it possibly to trade with Datacors, but i would like to see invention working, i am not much of a trader. Heh, me too. I'm not trading in datacores, invention works for me. The only sad thing is, that only a handful of modules of the T2 market are worth being invented. However, if you find such a module or ship, you won't moan about the price of datacores anymore because you'll still make a good profit even if you buy the datacores right from market in Jita. PS: Sorry for not telling you the module, but if you want you can convo me and I'll give you a few hints I made over 1.5bil in 3 days (maybe 2hrs of work in total), so I really think you're making something wrong... "Now you see me, now you dont" the module in question is not that hard to figure out Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Ione Hunt Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:06:00 - [107] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: Effei Gloom Originally by: Ione Hunt Originally by: Effei Gloom If you find the datacores in exploration sites, you buy them from your R&D agents or from market its all the same price/value. Only alternative are buy orders... Depending on module/ship, I don't even care about the price of datacores because of the huge profit margin. But you're on the right track with buy orders, now you just have to place 'em in the right systems/regions and you'll save a ton of isk. sure is it possibly to trade with Datacors, but i would like to see invention working, i am not much of a trader. Heh, me too. I'm not trading in datacores, invention works for me. The only sad thing is, that only a handful of modules of the T2 market are worth being invented. However, if you find such a module or ship, you won't moan about the price of datacores anymore because you'll still make a good profit even if you buy the datacores right from market in Jita. PS: Sorry for not telling you the module, but if you want you can convo me and I'll give you a few hints I made over 1.5bil in 3 days (maybe 2hrs of work in total), so I really think you're making something wrong... "Now you see me, now you dont" the module in question is not that hard to figure out Hehehe After seeing dozens of people try the "pay me xx amount and I pay you back 10x the amount" scam after reading it on the eve-o forum, I just don't feel comfortable mentioning it like that. Good for you if you figured it out as well _______________
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.16 12:04:00 - [108] I wont say there are mods or ships that cant be invented to make isk. What this post is about is Minmatar Invention of 500%-800% overpriced T2 moduls and ships!
Ione Hunt Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.02.16 12:27:00 - [109] Originally by: Effei Gloom I wont say there are mods or ships that cant be invented to make isk. What this post is about is Minmatar Invention of 500%-800% overpriced T2 moduls and ships! I agree that ship invention is seriously broken, at least until people can invent Hulks However, there's quite a few Minmatar modules which work quite well with invention. I do not support the notion that every module should be worth being invented. Some T2 modules have a small enough profit margin already if you have the T2 BPO, now imo it would be kinda unfair to allow inventers to compete in those low-profit modules. I agree though that some more modules/ships need an invention boost, an example are the 1400mm IIs you've been trying to invent. As it stands, nothing worth less than 8-10mil is really worth invention if you consider build cost and datacore prices (that's for modules ofc). I am not really that sure about ships because I didn't feel the need for inventing them so far. _______________
Effei Gloom Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.21 11:06:00 - [110] updated with job 9 - failure - score: 1 win / 4 loss = 20% (1 of 5 total) - 30% (best descryptor) = -10% base chance "Sadly you were unable to produce anything of value in this job. This is far from an impossible job, but one that might require a few tries before succeeding." loss: 281 mil isk total loss: 1285.2 mill isk

Mohoi	Posted - 2007.02.21 17:06:00 - [111] Edited by: Mohoi on 21/02/2007 17:03:34 Edited by: Mohoi on 21/02/2007 17:03:06 nvm
Eton Favre	Posted - 2007.02.21 17:39:00 - [112] Originally by: Ione Hunt at least until people can invent Hulks nope they can't see the known issues page at the bottom # The hulk can not be invented using a covetor bpc. -- Current WTS: Cargohold Optimization II BPC 4 Runs
Vastation	Posted - 2007.02.21 18:14:00 - [113] Can you do remote invention the same way you can do remote research? If so, do the ingredients have to be at the POS if you're inventing at a POS or can they be at a station. Thanks, V
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:14:00 - [114] Originally by: Vastation Can you do remote invention the same way you can do remote research? If so, do the ingredients have to be at the POS if you're inventing at a POS or can they be at a station. Thanks, V The mobile labs have 5 invention slots. Id say prolly yes, to both. ================ Has anyone figured in character stats into the equation? I mean are you inventing with intel 12 or 30? What about memory? Im guessing these two skills would be/are primary success modifiers but i've not seen any posts regarding stats vs invention. Can those above post there intel/mem stats too, when pass or fails? Just got me thinking on this... Kaaii Trading 101
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:22:00 - [115] Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Vastation Can you do remote invention the same way you can do remote research? If so, do the ingredients have to be at the POS if you're inventing at a POS or can they be at a station. Thanks, V The mobile labs have 5 invention slots. Id say prolly yes, to both. ================ Has anyone figured in character stats into the equation? I mean are you inventing with intel 12 or 30? What about memory? Im guessing these two skills would be/are primary success modifiers but i've not seen any posts regarding stats vs invention. Can those above post there intel/mem stats too, when pass or fails? Just got me thinking on this... Kaaii Stats have never and will never effect anything in the game OTHER than skill training times, thats it, this isn't WoW... Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:26:00 - [116] Got a link to that info? Having never played wow, I wouldn't know. It was a valid question Mr. Snippy pants.. Trading 101
Khyle Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:44:00 - [117] Edited by: Khyle on 23/02/2007 12:01:11 Originally by: Effei Gloom updated with job 9 - failure - score: 1 win / 4 loss = 20% (1 of 5 total) - 30% (best descryptor) = -10% base chance "Sadly you were unable to produce anything of value in this job. This is far from an impossible job, but one that might require a few tries before succeeding." loss: 281 mil isk total loss: 1285.2 mill isk The best decryptor has 30% bonus on the invention chance to my knowledge. BUT that means it has a multiplier of 1.3 Ergo: 20% / 1.3 = 15% With your skills the base chance seems to be at 15%, but this "measurement" has a huge error. Strictly speaking you have 1 win out of 5, a very simple estimate would be that the error is about 1, meaning the real chance could be close to 0 and you were just lucky, or the real chance could be 2 out of 5 and you were unlucky. Id say base chance is somewhere between 10% and 30% to be more precise one would need a lot more data. Moreover concerning the 620M income from the successful run, a -7 ME BPC should have around 60% waste. If im not mistaken build cost for a vaga should be ~30M(correct me if im wrong), giving you a profit of around ~165M per unit built if you sell for 210M and built with 60% waste. Thus the worth of the BPC should have been around 825M and not 620M. People were admittedly quite reluctant to buy it(probably scared off by the -7 ME), but if you produce the ship yourself its indiscernable from one built with ME 15 :) . Wouldnt have made it profitable so far, but it is still a difference. If you were not unusually unlucky, ship invention is still extremely broken. Even with 30% base chance one could maybe make a small profit, but the price wont really drop. The problem is, though, if it would be hugely profitable to invent Vagas, everybody would be doing it(as everybody can, just as the t1 market) and then the question would be if the price really drops that much or if datacore and encryptor prices just skyrocket ;) Anyway, something everybody with a bit of loose cash can do without further restrictions will never be hugely profitable(at least if the chance for profit is obvious). Edit: As i may sound a bit cynical above: Mad props for trying it out and making the results available! \o/
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2007.02.23 22:02:00 - [118] I'm not sure how this is all going to work, inventors will NEVER be able to compete with the t2 BPO owners and its a little unfair to allow them to retain ownership of T2 bpo's if they intend on preventing new t2 bpo's from being aquired. Its also a little unfair to remove the t2 BPO's after someone spent alot of time and effort aquiring them. How do you make Invention viable with t2 bpo's floating around that can be researched for me and pe while invention bpo's have negative values?
RyMcQeN I Caldari Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.02.23 22:25:00 - [119] Quote: 9. Stabber (1/4) - Stabber bpc me:50 10 runs 2.5 mill - Stabber 6.5 mill - Datacore - Mechanical Engineering 8 160 mill - Datacore - Minmatar Starship Engineering 8 56 mill - Assembly Instructions 35 mill - (Cryptic Data Interface 0 isk) Skills: MInmatar Encryption Methods IV Mechanical Engineering IV Minmatar Starship Engineering IV total: 281 mill isk "Sadly you were unable to produce anything of value in this job. This is far from an impossible job, but one that might require a few tries before succeeding." loss: 281 mil isk total loss: 1285.2 mill isk Just to clarify, you need the Cryptic Ship Data Interface for this right? Not just the Cryptic Data Interface?
Meau	Posted - 2007.02.23 22:35:00 - [120] The negative ME of i.e. a Vagabond BPC is not the problem. Currently the price for a vagabond is above 200 Million, while built cost even with negative ME is below 50. The problem is that invention materials are either far to expensive or the success chance is too low. If you would get 1 BPC run out for roughly 50 Million isk it would halve the vaga price given time. But the BPO owner would still get 50 Million per 17 hours(or how long it takes to build one) free, and the inventors would struggle among themselves for small profits. Inventors will always compete for profit with the BPO owners, but never be real competition or compete on equal grounds. Tech 3 wont really make that much better i guess, as having a "free" supply of T2 BPCs to invent T3 stuff still will give huge profits. That being said, once the lottery has been ended, datacore prices should drop rapidly(or what else would you do with all these RPs), making invention more viable, and probably lower T2 prices. But invention can never be a huge profit, as everybody can do it. If there is a known BPC you can make profit with more people will join the fun, increasing datacore and decryptor prices and increasing supply thus lowering the price of the product until theres no profit left to be had. Its the same as trading or the t1 market. A few with insight or luck and good guesswork can make good money, but its no isk-cow.



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