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BoB's response to allegations of misconduct

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Darkstar BP Caldari eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:06:00 - [1] Edited by: Darkstar BP on 11/02/2007 13:06:35 Two days ago it became clear there was a Dev high up in BoB, actively supporting BoB, with CCP not fixing it for 6 months Now,how does BoB respond? 1. BoB pilots have been flying with "[DEV]" tags in the last few days. 2. The Executor corp of BoB is now named "Tin Foil" 3. BoB members have been reacting very very differently from one-another From the separate thread I have summarized the main BoB member responses. Some of it is toeing the official CCP-line, in which t20 apologizes to both CCP and RKK (sic) for letting both down. One member believes that CCP should take appropriate action against the BoB chars that benefited. Originally by: Blacklight Very very difficult to post in this thread from my point of view. Not because I feel either myself or my mates that I play Eve with are cheats but because one man, an employee of CCP no less has let us all down, most of all he's let all of BoB down. We play hard but I firmly believe we play fair and to have the rug pulled out from beneath us like this is a very bitter pill to swallow. I'll blog about the issue from my perspective when I am done moving house and stuff so could be a week or so. Not much more I can say really except that I am sickened and saddened to learn that a CCP employee in my alliance cheated. Originally by: Lone Bear "Nice to see some Witch Hunt going on, nice to see a rebellion for pixels in an online computer game.Sad to see you dont follow the same conduct about modern slavery, mutilations, human rights being forgotten, your liberty being gone. Nice to see some enslaved minds going wild for some kilo bites. Flame me away if that can make your small ego feel greater, you're making me sick, lot of you should go see a shrink and look at what's going on around you so precious "eve character". Originally by: Sir JoJo "Ok i know this is probaly gonna be nice Bait for all the BOB haters out there but i will try my best. First of al i havent been ingame since i saw this Post and my first reaction was OMG ***** hell, does T20 actually know that he might just have ruined the game for an entire alliance and made the rest of the community even more suspicius towards said allaince.. this will hang over BOB for the rest of its excistens I am in shock that there was truth in this thing whit BPO spawning I am in Shock that CCP have devs that does this and i fully agree on the part of him beeing FIRED he should right away.. i love this game and iwe always been "OMG ppl are calling us haxors cheater all the time FFS come one get a grib". Originally by:** Avon "...... Firstly, am am honestly shocked that there was any truth to these allegations, and disappointed.You lot probably won't believe me, but frankly I could care less.Secondly, I trust CCP have taken whatever action they think appropriate. It may not be enough for some, but calling for more isn't really going to change anything. IMHO T20 should have been sacked when this was orginally discovered, but that didn't happen for whatever reason. I can live with that.Any BoB characters who knowingly took advantage of T20 should be punished as appropriate. ..... I feel for CCP, I feel for BoB, and I feel for the community.This whole affair could have been handled in a much better way, but alas we are where we are.What now? Do we, as CCP suggest, try to put this behind us and move on; or do we do all we can to risk the future of this game?I have invested a lot in Eve, and I really don't want to see it die, so what now? The ultimate future of Eve is in the hands of the community, you, me, everyone.It is time to act like the mature individuals we all are, and not the mob we have become. I know there is a separate thread, but that has to do with CCP and its response. This thread has to do with BoB's response. So Mod's don't lock this thread please. It should not be mingled with the CCP discussion
Exelsior Colossus Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:11:00 - [2] Edited by: Exelsior on 11/02/2007 13:08:29 I'm actually quite certain that most BoB had no idea about what was happening, and that only a select few were involved, and it's a shame that a whole alliance is tainted by that, but such is Eve. Edit: I just had an ebil tin foil idea, what if t20 was actually working for one of BoB's enemies and staged this to provide a reason for many to turn against BoB? puts on tin foil hat
V0idz Herrscher der Zeit	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Exelsior Edited by: Exelsior on 11/02/2007 13:08:29 I'm actually quite certain that most BoB had no idea about what was happening, and that only a select few were involved, and it's a shame that a whole alliance is tainted by that, but such is Eve. involved maybe... but the whole aliance have had benefits of this "relationship".. --------- EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Matrix Aran Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:16:00 - [4] Personaly I'm getting tired of all this, "OMG BoB haxorz!" crap. BoB is the big bad alliance of the moment and everyone believes they're cheating because they're on top. Same things were said of Curse Alliance back at it's peak. Its been made worse due to the news about T20 but to be honest, if someone believes that BoB have dominated the universe thanks to a Saber BPO, they need their head checked. ----
NereSky Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:19:00 - [5] isnt impersonating a Dev against the rules? anyway its not just about a BPO or 3
Iva Soreass FireStar Inc Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:20:00 - [6] Damm do you guys eat,drink,**,sleep,think, about BoB all time ? seriously grow the ** up, get over it NO ONE CARES. ----------------------------------------------- "Your momma is so fat, BoB thought she was a region and took her!"
Dekiri Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Matrix Aran Personaly I'm getting tired of all this, "OMG BoB haxorz!" crap. BoB is the big bad alliance of the moment and everyone believes they're cheating because they're on top. Same things were said of Curse Alliance back at it's peak. Its been made worse due to the news about T20 but to be honest, if someone believes that BoB have dominated the universe thanks to a Saber BPO, they need their head checked. If you think it is about a sabre BPO then you really need a reality check. It is about more then that and it is not only about T20. Noone really believes this was all BoB got fed. --------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur
Exelsior Colossus Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:25:00 - [8] Originally by: V0idz Originally by: Exelsior Edited by: Exelsior on 11/02/2007 13:08:29 I'm actually quite certain that most BoB had no idea about what was happening, and that only a select few were involved, and it's a shame that a whole alliance is tainted by that, but such is Eve. involved maybe... but the whole aliance have had benefits of this "relationship".. The question is, were the benefits they gained done through ignorance or knowledge? If a corp makes ships at discounts for your alliance you're gonna buy those ships and assume that the BPOs were legally obtained, and if later on it's found out that they weren't then it is unfair to taint you with 'cheating' aswell because it was in no way your fault.
Exelsior Colossus Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:27:00 - [9] Originally by: Iva Soreass Damm do you guys eat,drink,**,sleep,think, about BoB all time ? seriously grow the ** up, get over it NO ONE CARES. Apparently a lot of people do actually care. The fact that your post is full of profanity and that you're vehemently trying to get rid of the attention currently around BoB does nothing but anger more people, and when they see your ticker, well you get my point.
M PIquet StateCorp	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Dekiri If you think it is about a sabre BPO then you really need a reality check. It is about more then that and it is not only about T20. Noone really believes this was all BoB got fed. And no matter what anyone else says, there will always be the conspiracy theorists who actually believe that BoB where "fed". Congrats guys, you're all turning EVE into Counter-Strike at its paranoid height.

Sameth Technology Acquisition Collective Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:28:00 - [11] You spin me right round, baby right round like a record, baby Right round round round
Zoltaris COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:30:00 - [12] The only fair way to repair the damage done would be either to remove all benefits BoB got from these BPOs (prob. impossible or at least very very hard to estimate) or loan these same BPO for ALL SINGLE ALLIANCE in game for a period of 6 months, so these too can benefit from these BPOs in the same way BoB did ----- > Amongst the Top 10
Kozak Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:33:00 - [13] Originally by: Lone Bear "Nice to see some Witch Hunt going on, nice to see a rebellion for pixels in an online computer game.Sad to see you dont follow the same conduct about modern slavery, mutilations, human rights being forgotten, your liberty being gone. Nice to see some enslaved minds going wild for some kilo bites. Flame me away if that can make your small ego feel greater, you're making me sick, lot of you should go see a shrink and look at what's going on around you so precious "eve character". I think Lone Bear wans us all to quit eve and join the peace corps. You care for your precious pixels so much that you care to post. Quit EVE and go to Darfur or something, help where it counts and stop telling us what we should be doing. We pay for a product, just like anything else we pay for. If it's broken or tainted, it matter, cause I'm paying for it. If it was free, then maybe what you say could have some weight.
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:36:00 - [14] at the end of the day every member of bob is just another player of the community. Which means by a dev cheating no matter if it helped or disadvantaged him he got betrayed. Many BoB members have stated their views on this and as others stated a witchhunt will lead to nothing. A dev cheating is a sad thing for the whole community not because someone gained some iskies, or someone lost some virtual stuff but because we ALL lost trust in ccp. Trust which over time will be restored or which will lead to ppl quitting. That in this case BoB, unknowingly, benefited from it is unfortunate because it helps to fuel the bob haters with a new angle. No logic or reasoning or statements from ccp will change their hurling abuse about the whole alliance beeing cheats etc. So in short i personally think BoB prolly lost the most of it because on one hand they get scapegoated for the shortcomings of a Dev and on the otherhand they lost their faith in ccp and to face each cheating accusation with the same steady "no we dont cheat" statement they could sofar rely on. I would hope that the more levelheaded guys get a grip on the whole situation and ppl like Nez stop there forum attentionwhoring in addition to ccp owning up. T20 deserves whats coming for him and ccp should openly state what role Bob had in all this so ppl can move on. Ccp as a company shouldnt let its own shortcomings become a concern of a small group of players who gets, atleast in the majority of their players, unrightfully crucified for it. A dev spawning bpos is like an alliancem8 duping ressources or exploiting a bpo bug (both events the community had in the eve history) however none of these events lead to a witchhunt of this proportion.
Obed Imperial Logistics	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:37:00 - [15] There appears to be some genuine shock and disappointment from BoB on what has happened, which is good as the community is also shocked and disappointed. However the rest of the community seems to be very, very angry indeed, but instead of BoB saying "ok guys, we really need to take stock of what has happened and play this carefully", they appear to be pouring fuel onto the fire if points 1 and 2 are true and in doing so giving two fingers to the community. I do not understand why they would do this if they were innocent. Why don't they have an official stance on the matter? Why aren't they keeping their people in check? Individuals from the alliance have come forward and said this is not right, which takes courage, but why can the leadership not do the same and try to salvage their reputation? In short, I just do not understand ----- I have one account and zero alts.
Karunel Princeps Corp	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:38:00 - [16] If it bothers you so much, kill them, it's not like you can't take justice in your own hands in this game. Truth is, I feel sad for many, most, BoB members who probably feel very bad atm (Blacklight explained it quite well), but such is life. The problem with the chestbeating and "haha you say we have devs because you're a sore losers lolol" is that when things like this happen you find everyone at your neck. Sad but that's the way of things. ^^ Originally by: elbenito The problem with large fleet engagements is that the hamsters stop to watch.
Kozak Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:38:00 - [17] Anyone notice that BoB and CCP are the only ones calling for calm and to move on? The similarities are eerie.
Epic voice Epic.	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Darkstar BP 1. BoB pilots have been flying with "[DEV]" tags in the last few days. 2. The Executor corp of BoB is now named "Tin Foil" It has boiled over. BOB members are even getting blamed for cheating on the Test server at the moment. In my honest opinion BOB got the right to show some parts of this community the "finger" right now.
Elliot Reid Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:42:00 - [19] Originally by: NereSky isnt impersonating a Dev against the rules? I assume you are joking with this statement? If not then............. __________________________________
Kozak Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Epic voice Originally by: Darkstar BP 1. BoB pilots have been flying with "[DEV]" tags in the last few days. 2. The Executor corp of BoB is now named "Tin Foil" It has boiled over. BOB members are even getting blamed for cheating on the Test server at the moment. In my honest opinion BOB got the right to show some parts of this community the "finger" right now. So you are saying that BOB have the right to mock the community for getting an unfair advantage in a game that we all pay for equally? I think flying with [DEV] is actually against the EULA, and early in the game people were banned for impersonating CCP staff in game.

Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:46:00 - [21] Originally by: Kozak Originally by: Epic voice Originally by: Darkstar BP 1. BoB pilots have been flying with "[DEV]" tags in the last few days. 2. The Executor corp of BoB is now named "Tin Foil" It has boiled over. BOB members are even getting blamed for cheating on the Test server at the moment. In my honest opinion BOB got the right to show some parts of this community the "finger" right now. So you are saying that BOB have the right to mock the community for getting an unfair advantage in a game that we all pay for equally? I think flying with [DEV] is actually against the EULA, and early in the game people were banned for impersonating CCP staff in game. The executioner corp was found long before the whole incident at the end of last year (december if memory serves right). The tags can be appointed by anyone so chances are high if you see a bob with a dev tag one of YOUR gangm8s set it this way. Tho reading your other posts on this topic i guess ure not interested in logic.
Liu Kaskakka PAK	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:46:00 - [22] Originally by: Darkstar BP Edited by: Darkstar BP on 11/02/2007 13:06:35 Two days ago it became clear there was a Dev high up in BoB, actively supporting BoB, with CCP not fixing it for 6 months Now,how does BoB respond? 1. BoB pilots have been flying with "[DEV]" tags in the last few days. 2. The Executor corp of BoB is now named "Tin Foil" 3. BoB members have been reacting very very differently from one-another Okies, lets think with our brainz for a bit! Everyone knew bob had devs in their alliance, other alliances have devs too you know! They like their game, doh! Did bob guys know the identity of a dev/devs? Probably a few did. Should they have ruined the devs gaming experience by exposing him to public/kicking him out of the alliance? If I knew my boss was a dev, so what? I'd play the game with the dev boss just the same. If a dev cheats, how is it suddenly bob's fault? Did EvilMolle bully a dev to give them an advantage? How many in bob knew? None? A couple? Everyone? Are you guys stupid or something? Now, lets address the actual issues the op brings us: If the whole community is after you for something you had very little control over, how do you react? 1. You disband your alliance and quit the game out of shame? 2. You quiver in a little corner of the galaxy sending 'forgive us' pleas? 3. You make a mockery out of it by flaunting the dev-thing everywhere you go? Personally I would choose option number three. King Liu is RIGHT!!
Epic voice Epic.	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Kozak Originally by: Epic voice Originally by: Darkstar BP 1. BoB pilots have been flying with "[DEV]" tags in the last few days. 2. The Executor corp of BoB is now named "Tin Foil" It has boiled over. BOB members are even getting blamed for cheating on the Test server at the moment. In my honest opinion BOB got the right to show some parts of this community the "finger" right now. So you are saying that BOB have the right to mock the community for getting an unfair advantage in a game that we all pay for equally? I think flying with [DEV] is actually against the EULA, and early in the game people were banned for impersonating CCP staff in game. no im saying that i think BOB got the right to mock the community for trying to push them all over the same edge, its my own opinion.
The Hardman Amarr Cornerstone Unlimited The Foundation.	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:48:00 - [24] Note that I am anti-Bob, because they need opposing (as the strongest Alliance in EVE at the moment). I personally think that most Bob members didn't know about this and don't share responsiblility. Also, as usual, some Bob pilots (and leadership) seem to be acting very arrogant and *****ish over this matter. I think that some Bob members probably did know about T20 being more in favor of Bob then he should have been, but didn't speak up about this.
Kozak Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:52:00 - [25] Why do people focus on what we dont know? We know that there was cheating, we dont' know what other alliance cheated. To speculate is stupid. All I know is that I'm in an alliance that has not cheated and the enemy is known to have. You expect me or anyone else to be "OK, No Biggie". These are things that I know and can react to.
Obed Imperial Logistics	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:52:00 - [26] Originally by: Liu Kaskakka ... If the whole community is after you for something you had very little control over, how do you react? 1. You disband your alliance and quit the game out of shame? 2. You quiver in a little corner of the galaxy sending 'forgive us' pleas? 3. You make a mockery out of it by flaunting the dev-thing everywhere you go? Personally I would choose option number three. 4. You release an honest statement putting accross your version of events as quickly as possible in order to try and defuse the situation. In my mind option 4 is the most sensible approach. ----- I have one account and zero alts.
Darkstar BP Caldari eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Liu Kaskakka Now, lets address the actual issues the op brings us:[/b] If the whole community is after you for something you had very little control over, how do you react? 1. You disband your alliance and quit the game out of shame? 2. You quiver in a little corner of the galaxy sending 'forgive us' pleas? 3. You make a mockery out of it by flaunting the dev-thing everywhere you go? Personally I would choose option number three. Alternatively: 4. You own up to it, and come clean about what else came from the relations you have had with Devs. You come clean before CCP does, or Kugutsumen uncovers more information. Make sure everybody understands you take it seriously, and you will address it differently when it happens again. That way not everybody in your alliance will be tainted the same way.
August Personage Caldari Clarf Inc	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:53:00 - [28] 1.people have been calling them BoD for the past few days, and quite a lot of new anti-bob sigs sporting BoD. laugh it up, and then cry when BoB decide they want to get in on the joke, they're not impersonating CCP, they are laughing at your paranoia. 2.the bob holding corp has been tin foil for quite a while now. 3. there are a lot of different people in bob, of course they're going to react differently
Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:54:00 - [29] Edited by: Djerin on 11/02/2007 13:51:28 Originally by: Iva Soreass NO ONE CARES. No, actually it's only you and a few of your doomed allies who don't care. But i didn't expect you to be any better. The day they leave you to your destiny you'll care too. Originally by: Cipher7 Its like if the Imperial Star Destroyers flew past the X-Wing fighters and started flying circles around them, it would turn Star Wars into a slapstick comedy a-la Benny Hill instead
Local pusher	Posted - 2007.02.11 13:55:00 - [30] Edited by: Local pusher on 11/02/2007 13:53:09 Originally by: Kozak Why do people focus on what we dont know? We know that there was cheating, we dont' know what other alliance cheated. To speculate is stupid. All I know is that I'm in an alliance that has not cheated and the enemy is known to have. You expect me or anyone else to be "OK, No Biggie". These are things that I know and can react to. Sure. Let me point to plex exploits, bookmark can explotis and perhaps carrier infinite cargo space exploit. KThxbye



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