fighter speed is also bad even when they reach their target there are a lot of cruisers and most frigs that out run the fighters once their MWD hits cool down

Yea, but that's not a bad thing if that's by design that carriers have trouble engaging frigs & fast cruisers.
If they needed a warpable BM that'd be even more balanced, I was just thinking warp to target like a super MJD warp really. No friendly needed.

problem if that is by design is that HAW are better against everything bigger than cruisers and are just about as good against cruisers

If the carriers can project from a far safer range, that's not so much an issue though. It's really only an issue when carriers have such a short effective range because of the fighter travel time.

it would also be nice if when you warped (and your fighters are on return and orbit) they warped along side your carrier this would add greatly to the feel of being a carrier pilot and i can't see how it has a negative impact

, bumps

the thanatos has a significantly weaker tank compared to all other carriers and does not get compensated adequately for it does have a larger fighter bay but I don't think that is enough
increase its base armor hp and consider changing its fighter hp bonus to damage

also consider increasing the nidhoggurs fighter speed bonus to 5% to set it further appart since it also has more then a million ehp less tank then the chimera does

support fighters are only a t1&t2 mod with very large range and not worth using(except for siren) over a fighter that does damage the carrier bonuses towards them also seem just useless and should be changed to strength bonuses

PS: where is the FAX thread?

I take it CCP still hasnt commented on the price of fighters as we still cant rep them?? i looked through this thread but couldnt find any response from Larrakin. Have I missed it or has it not happened?

They'll cost 1/6 what they do now for light fighters and 1/4 for heavies. When the patch hits all existing fighters and production jobs will turn into 6 or 4. Just don't try to buy fighters on patch day because it will probably cancel all sell orders and jack up the price for a while before people relist them.

I don't know if this got brought up early but it looks like they are reducing base material needed for all caps, So if carriers look like sub-bar state right now against sub-caps they might introduce Tech II carriers to overcome its downsides ? I don't know...

why would you ever use the siren? you should have tackle in your fleet

This is so much right. It would be more usefully if the Siren would be a sensor dampener.

They'll cost 1/6 what they do now for light fighters and 1/4 for heavies. When the patch hits all existing fighters and production jobs will turn into 6 or 4. Just don't try to buy fighters on patch day because it will probably cancel all sell orders and jack up the price for a while before people relist them.

This is so much right. It would be more usefully if the Siren would be a sensor dampener.

So each of my 20 mil isk fighters is going to be transformed into 6 worthless T1 light fighters?


One current Firbolg equals six light T1 Firbolg fighters. (I presume; can't see Devs turning them into something useful)
That works out at around 3.5 mil per T1 light fighter - So around 7 to 10 mil per T2 light fighter or between 56 to 90 mil isk per squad for disposable, un-repairable light fighters.
These may or may not be useful, depending on whether Fax's get sorted out or not and if players are willing to pay 50% more for a very limited use carrier. Including the already known drawbacks with carriers + light fighters - Long reload (refueling time), limited damage application, easily destroyed and now cost of light fighters.

Risk (isk outlay) vs Reward (ability and usefulness) - Carriers fall a long way short on any potential reward.

T1 light fighters should cost no more than T2 sentry drones with T2 being double that, so under 3 mil for T2 Light Fighters or 27 mil per squad - Times that by 3 it is still a considerable isk outlay for something that is likely to be single use.

Agreed. I know they wanted us to use them more like ammo, but not even titans pay nearly that much for ammo unless they use doomsdays quite a bit.

I think you're a little off on the price increase for hulls though. I haven't done the math for all races, but a Thanatos would only cost about 8% more, so probably more like 20% for the others.

A Celestis would do a much better job, survive longer and not require a carrier losing 1/3rd of its dps.

... , un-repairable light fighters.
...

If you want to go that way...
There are many ships who are more suitable for tackle purposes...

Agreed. I know they wanted us to use them more like ammo, but not even titans pay nearly that much for ammo unless they use doomsdays quite a bit.

I think you're a little off on the price increase for hulls though. I haven't done the math for all races, but a Thanatos would only cost about 8% more, so probably more like 20% for the others.

Using 8 Million isk as a quick estimator we find Carriers BASE 1.3-1.4 Bil Dread BASE 1.4-1.5 Bil F Aux BASE 1.3-1.4 Bil

This quote From This Reddit post would indicate Carriers will be around 1.3 to 1.4 bil build cost. That is just a bit more than 8% of the current build cost of a Thany at around 900 mil - It is actually adding 400 to 500 mil to the build cost or around 50%.

Also where are you getting the materials to build a Thanny for 900 mil? I've never seen a build price estimate below 1.28 or one on firesale cheaper than 1.05 bil.

also an idea that may greatly help fighters. give them a sig amount per fighter so say the locust II would be 3 per fighter or a dragonfly II would be 4.44 per fighter

this would mean as fighters died they would be harder to kill

Ok, let's just say I did an Evepraisal of the materials required now vs the materials required on SiSi as of 3 days ago. For ME 0 it gave the current cost as 1.42 bil and the new cost as 1.52 bil. Now that's with Jita mineral prices and ME 0, so it's a bit on the high side but the ratio is the same.

Also where are you getting the materials to build a Thanny for 900 mil? I've never seen a build price estimate below 1.28 or one on firesale cheaper than 1.05 bil.

Sorry your right, I was comparing an ME 9 BPO on TQ with an ME 0 on SISI.

It is somewhat odd how they are doing this - At ME 0 on both servers a Thanatos will have 50% less armor but requires 6 more armor plates. Overall there will be 4 extra parts required to build a Thanatos but of course the nice juggling act Devs did with components (makes no sense as far as attributes the ship has) means it is going to cost substantially more to build.
With an end result of, less EHP, less effective DPS and application, disposable DPS, far less chance of surviving even a moderate sized fight involving capitals AND worst of all, its 100% reliance on Triage Fax's to even be deployed.

Build costs being equal - Forget carriers just bring dreads

Can we get even a cursory "yeah we can't answer your questions" from a dev on this team?
Surely 2 mins wouldn't be too hard to swing for a "This is how it is" response.....