it does bug me with how much fighters will cost that carriers and dreads are going to cost the same :/

however i think capitals are actually getting cheaper right now the 2% bonus on CSAA do little to nothing for most capitals but in the fall the industry building will probably have more than 2% so it may be carriers are staying about the same price or cheaper it's just they are balancing them for the new structures coming out in the fall.


also they do not "need" Fax a decent guardian wing can hold them up and these things are not meant to be in capital fights so i don't think them not being able to survive in one is a bad thing. the problem is they are not good enough in a sub cap fight to be worth the cost of replacing fighters

It really is a shame devs put up these feedback threads, then totally ignore them by not keeping them up to date. Or even bothering to respond to simple questions.

A capital ship - Any Capital ship, that can't be useful and competitive in a capital ship fight isn't worth fielding.

They have actually balanced Carriers out of the new structure meta - So it matters little that nulsec Citadels get a manufacturing bonus. All they will be building is Dreads if Citadel shoots are the goal.

As for Fax's - Ok, Guardians will do a better job but isn't that in itself just really poor design? Add to that, Guardians means Armor is all that will ever be used - 2 complete lines of Capitals left out in the cold, right where they have been for years now.


A 2 billion isk + carrier, with disposable fighters (@ around 250 mil per flight - 3 squads) that may or may not be able to kill a 500 mil isk battleship - Really isn't worth fielding.

R-isk vs Reward - Carriers suck - By Design
-- - -- - -- - --
Devs can't respond in this thread - They know carriers are bad and don't want to admit their plan all along was to make them next to useless.

How about we just drop the pretense and simply remove carriers - It will save A LOT of negative feedback over time. Although, Devs are great at ignoring customers and just doing their own thing - So negative feedback probably won't be an issue, they just continue to ignore paying customers.

How few subs is enough to keep the servers up?

nothing says capitals need to be good against capitals

basilisk work when you need shields rather than guardians

nothing says they need to be good against citadels however a single carrier can eat a citadels fighters (depending on fit they can be over 1/2 it's dps)

ccps idea isn't bad they are just executing it poorly

Since there is no Dread thread im just gonna respond here to something i saw a couple pages back.

Dreads fit with HAW's are going to die insanely quickly to capital fit dreads. there should be something like a mode switch where both sets of guns can be equipped and the mode can be switched as we can no longer refit in combat. put a timer on it or something so we are not just waiting to die to a blob of subs or a blap dread. What happened to everyhting allegedly having a counter? what do you guys think?

as for carriers, i am still extremely disappointed. not a word from CCP Larakin. all the isk I have invested in my fighters is going down the drain. I took a chance and trained for the t2 light fighters but it doesnt look like im ever going to get to/want to use them. the lack of regular drones on cariers gives them a stupidly small engagement profile and even then they do dog **** for damage against anything large enough for it to track and hit.

I really love the idea that ccp is trying to present us with more opportunities to use caps in PVP and PVE but PVP i think they have gone in a seriously bad direction and PVE has been all over the place. I'm just lost as to what they thought they were "fixing" with all these changes to carriers in paticular.

I mean i understand they are trying to prevent people botting with carriers but that means nerfing and overcomplicating for legitimate players.

DEVS PLEASE ADDRESS OUR FEEDBACK- EVEN A LITTLE BIT

as for carriers, i am still extremely disappointed. not a word from CCP Larakin. all the isk I have invested in my fighters is going down the drain. I took a chance and trained for the t2 light fighters but it doesnt look like im ever going to get to/want to use them. the lack of regular drones on cariers gives them a stupidly small engagement profile and even then they do dog **** for damage against anything large enough for it to track and hit.

DEVS PLEASE ADDRESS OUR FEEDBACK- EVEN A LITTLE BIT

Carriers don't need drones their superiority fighters eat frigs and desi and the attack fighters are OK against cruisers.


The problem with carriers isn't that they are not good it's that they are more expensive more limited and have a higher sp requirement than other ships that do the same thing. It's why I said range (and sensor strength)is all they really need now

Anti capital fit dreads should counter anti-subcap fit dreads with ease. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And the counter to anti-capital fit dreads is A: Subcaps, B: Other anti cap Dreads, C: Titans and Supers. You know, basically everything that isn't a carrier. You are really bad at understanding this whole counter thing.

And by the way, angrily yelling at the devs for doing what you think is a poor job and not actually including any way you think they should be changed just makes you look like an idiot.

I feel like they hopefully have something up their sleeve, maybe something big they aren't telling us about, I would say give it time, and pray that it gets fixed.

Your rants seem to be based more on "it don't want change" then any actual issues tough you do bring up the main ones.


Fax now don't even have enough cap to run without working against nuets and the new cap boosters are worthless even on the gal/minm fax.


There is nothing wrong with giving a jack of all trades ships a specific role but they need to make sure they are not severely out preformed in that role by cheaper and less skill intensive ships. So the idea of a dedicated anti sub cap carrier is not a bad thing but in its current state it can't fulfill that role properly.

I have also given up in support fighters being any better than ewar drones

thanks for the constuctive reply. I didnt intednt the caps to be "yelling". just to underscore it as being the most important point of the post.

I didnt not mean to imply I thought the problem was that carriers arent good, I was trying to say that the functionality of a ship I put a lot of time training into can no longer fill a role as well as it used to/it could be filled easier by another ship. I will grant you that the superiority fighters ae not something i have spend much time testing and I will admit that it my own problem. I will hop on sisi tonight and spend some serious time with them. and as for the counters, maybe im just a poor and have a hard time accepting that if i fit my ship to go after sub caps i will be helpless to anything larger and watch my 2.5 billion go boom. but thats just me. just cuz we can afford it doesnt meen we have to like it

I've been bringing up those issues for weeks.

Yeah they have become rants;
I want this change, I've spent over 100 hours on SISI with my characters trying to make these changes work for me and maybe others who play the same way as me.
I've spent HOURS responding in threads - Saying what you just said above (even including fits I used etc), leaving myself wondering if anyone actually reads the stuff others write or simply skim it and respond as if they did.

The most frustrating and annoying thing;
The lack of ANY sort of input from Devs is just so fukin annoying.
This whole "reveal at Fanfest", is just crap - Like this, that simply shows a screenshot of an Erebus that is supposed to represent some new faction titan.
NB; Faction carriers might go some way to explaining why current ones are so bad - They need development room for the more expensive factions ones.

As for "giving up on support fighters" - That is EXACTLY what CCP wants, if you don't care why should they bother putting in the effort to make them useful. Your helping CCP do lazy ineffective work and get away with it.

Oh I know exactly what you mean I have been doing similar things on sisi even dragging my alliance mates into it to help test abdominal what makes it worse is ccp is absent from their forums but they are all over reddit

Wait fighters can't be MJDed .... that has to be a bug right

Dunno why not. You can MJD bombs and ships (and drones I think). No real real reason why not on the MJD for fighter squads.

yeah drones work i bug reported i can't see why not and i can already see some one MJDing my target away from my fighters -.-

Do your fighters follow the MJD'd target the 100 K or do you need to re-select it as a target.
If they just chase down the target, using their mwd, it is not really a problem as most can cover 100K fairly quickly but if you have to re-initiate what was the active target, it is bad. Not necessarily a bug, just poor fighter mechanics.

I think he meant MJFG, the command destroyer mod. It's not jumping the fighters, which means if someone jumped the area including your fighters and the target being attacked, they wont be jumped too.

If they did get jumped by the MJFG like normal drones, bombs, ships, missiles, they would be able to continue attacking the target.

That would be the optimal gameplay mechanic.

Yeah I did guess that which is why I asked if the fighters automatically chased down the moved target.
Not being able to MJFG squads of fighters I believe is intentional but if they chase down a target that has been jumped 100K away it is not so bad. If you have to start from scratch by re-sending fighters manually, it is just another somewhat broken mechanic for carriers to deal with.

Fighters should always pursue any target that is on grid, regardless of whether it moves 100K away or 1000. They have that target locked and engaged so should be able to follow it. No warping for fighters would mean if the target warps 1,000k away, you just recall fighters and find a new target as it would take way too long to reach them.

As for the counter thing it's the same for all the other guns that shoot below their class. If you come up against a cruiser and toy have a rlml the fight is not going to go in your favor same thing of you come up against a battleship abs you have RHML.

Then as for them not being as good as they were that is to be expected they were very very overpowered in large numbers.


Also dreads are no longer going to be 2.5 they ate being brought down to about carrier price

Fighters won't follow a target that actually blip warps on grid, because warp breaks locks, or did last time I bothered to test. However if fighters also would warp on grid to chase a target (like a fancy MJD) that would be awesome, land them at a fixed range from their target which isn't quite in weapons range and you still allow people to run away, or lock them and shoot them before they attack, but you allow carriers to actually project to their lock ranges properly, rather than having shorter ranges than dread HAW's.
It's the same issue Heavy Drones have always had, made a hundred times worse.

So after flying a Nyx for a while I have to ask: Are the long range heavy fighters supposed to track like lights and hit like a truck from 45km? With a set of Termites I was doing obscene things to small ships that made light fighters seem useless by comparison.