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Introduction to Castor

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Eight	Posted - 2003.12.14 01:17:00 - [1] Edited by: Eight on 16/12/2003 15:57:44 I have compiled some key points about changes introduced with the Gemini to Castor transition in an effort to help prepare those players who have not been following along with changes as they have developed. Late breaking information Changes to Jump In Points / Gates regarding warp disruption fields, reflected below (related thread). Addition of "Escrow" missions (related thread). Changes to reprocessing and refining station services (related thread). Contents Standings Agents Research Agents Jump In Points / Gates Speed Boosting Modules Market NPCs Performance Optimizations Standings You can view your standings details now in the new "standings" tab in the character sheet. Standings with NPC corps and factions have been halved (divide by two), you should be able to access all the agents that were previously available to you. Actions which affect your standings now give 'diminishing returns'. An action which changes your standing from 0.00 to 0.10 would change your standing from 8.00 to 8.02. Standing decay is now properly implemented and occurs at 5% a week (that is: Multiplied by 0.95, NOT reduced by 0.05). Doing missions for higher level agents will affect your standings more than with lower level agents. Gain of NPC faction standing (as opposed to just NPC corp standing) occurs only on "important" agent missions. An NPC corp's standing towards your corp is also altered by your actions. The more members in your corp the less any individual affects standing. (added) Sec rating and pirate corp standing will only be affected by the 'largest' pirate you kill in each 10 minutes of pirate combat. ~~Pirate kills of a given type of pirate will only decrease your standing with that pirate faction to a certain point. To progress farther you must kill harder pirates.~~ (delayed) Agents (general) The previous "agent ladder" system has been replaced with a standings based system. Given a 0 standing with an NPC corporation you will have access to all the very lowest agents of that corp. Increasing your standing with an NPC corp (by missions or otherwise) will allow you access to higher agents. The in station "agents" tab now only shows local agents and those agents you have active missions for. Use your addressbook to keep track of agents you like. (updated) You can see the agents of an NPC corp, and which ones are available to you, by showing info on an NPC corp and viewing the "Agents" tab. For more information. Research Agents Certain NPC Corporations have an R&D Department which provides Research Agents. When you talk to a research agent you will be given the option to start a research project. Both Players and the Agent need particular research skills to research in a given area. Research skills will be available through standard, non-research, agents. Better Research Agents have greater variety of skills at higher levels. Research projects accumulate Research Points (RPs) over time based on player skill, the agent's skill, the agent's quality, as well as standings. Research Agents give missions which halt the progress of your research until they are completed for a Research Rate bonus, or rejected. When a new blueprint is to be distributed, a lottery is run and each research project in that field has a chance based on the number of research points accumulated. Like a raffle. If you are the 'winner' of a blueprint, your agent will contact you and notify you of a breakthrough. You are then given the option to pursue the new technology and produce a blueprint, or continue on researching. (added) Accepting a blueprint will complete that research project, and your Research Points will start again at zero when you begin a new one. (added) For more information. ~ Eight
Eight	Posted - 2003.12.14 01:18:00 - [2] Edited by: Eight on 15/12/2003 18:32:39 Jump In Points / Gates The Jump In Point into a system is now 12km from the gate leading back to the system you came from. You must be within 2.5km of the gate to Jump. When warping in to a gate (or other object) you now have the option to arrive 20, 30, 40, or 50 km from the gate. ~~Gates now produce Warp Disruption Field which prevents ships from warping within 20km. "Advanced Technology has been implemented by the major empires to stabilize this effect in their own gates".~~ (removed, link ) Anchorable warp disruption field generators will be introduced shortly after Castor goes live. See Hellmar's recent post. (added) Ships now drift to a stop after warping instead of continuing on course as before. After jump in (and log in) your ship will not be visible until you begin moving or a time of one minute has elapsed. Aligning for warp no longer breaks target locks. Ships must surpass one half of their maximum speed before they enter warp (Note: Stasis Webifiers will not prevent warp-out due to this change, as they affect your maximum speed. Example: Max Webbed Speed = 50. Speed to warp = 25). (updated) For more information. Speed Boosting Modules Afterburners and MicroWarpdrives no longer simply multiply your speed but are affected by the mass of your ship. Larger ships will require more powerful modules, which have higher fitting requirements, to gain any appreciable speed. Afterburners and MicroWarpdrives are now rated in three classes: 1, 10, and 100 MegaNewtons. For more information. Target Lock Times Targeting Lock Times are no longer determined by the 'targeting speed' stat. Each ship now has a 'scan Resolution' stat which will be applied to the targeted ship's 'signature Radius' stat to determine the time to get a lock. Battleships have the lowest scan resolution and the largest signature, while frigates just the opposite. Modules which had previously affected 'targeting speed' now affect 'scan resolution'. Other attributes have been adjusted for balance. For more information. Market Transactions occur at the price set by the matching order, not the standing order as it was previously. For Example: Seller posts at 10 isk, then buyer posts at 12isk. This used to go through at 10isk and will now go through at 12isk. Orders are now First In First Out, as opposed to previously Last In First Out. That is, if two identical orders are placed, the first one placed will be met first. The market now supports decimal prices to one hundredth (0.01) of an isk. If you have insufficient funds to fulfill a buy order you have placed on the market and someone attempts to sell to you, you will be fined 10% of the price of either the sell order or the buy order, whichever is less, and your order will be cancelled. (added) If you place a sell order by selecting 'sell now' and the buyer has insufficient funds, your order will be cancelled and the goods returned to your hangar. (added) If you use 'place order' your sell order will not be cancelled if it matches a buy order with insufficient funds. (added) If you have an outstanding fine for insufficient funds, you will not be able to place any more buy orders until that fine is paid. You can always post sell orders. (added) NPCs no longer simply place one very large order at the beginning of the day (continuous NPC market). (added) NPCs NPC Pirate battleships are now present. WARNING: Many pirates now pose a serious threat to players in battleships. For more information. Performance Optimizations Both drones and mines have seen some dramatic improvement in performance and should no longer be open to abuse. For more information. ~ Eight
Luther Pendragon	Posted - 2003.12.14 01:46:00 - [3] Nice job Eight! Regarding only resident agents shown in station, arent the current mission agents shown too? Or was that changed recently? ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! waves his hand in your face in the jedi way
khalum	Posted - 2003.12.14 03:01:00 - [4] Way to go! --- Peackeepers Inc. never dies, they just go to hell and regroup
Arch Aggelos	Posted - 2003.12.14 03:05:00 - [5] Wonderful news!
Buell Fan	Posted - 2003.12.14 03:07:00 - [6] Can someone please confirm a rumor that I have heard several times which contends that any secure containers anchored in space will be destroyed when Castor is applied? PLEASE tell me it's not true. If it is (panic) then can you tell me whether ships which are left in space will also be destoryed, if no pilot is onboard? We need to know so we can get ourselves prepared!
Vulcann	Posted - 2003.12.14 03:09:00 - [7] Nice summary aye ;) Quote: Ships must surpass one half of their maximum speed before they enter warp meaning i.e. having top speed 200 m/s, warp will not begin now till ship exceeds 100 m/s (and aligned for warp) ? ~~ "If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
Eight	Posted - 2003.12.14 03:24:00 - [8] Edited by: Eight on 14/12/2003 03:29:13 Luther Pendragon: You are correct, agents you have active missions for will also show in the station tab. I have updated the item to reflect this. Quote: Nice summary aye ;) Quote: Ships must surpass one half of their maximum speed before they enter warp meaning i.e. having top speed 200 m/s, warp will not begin now till ship exceeds 100 m/s (and aligned for warp) ? I believe you've got it. As soon as you are both aligned and exceeding half of your maximum speed you will enter warp. It is perhaps worth noting that Stasis Webifiers and the like affect your max speed, so if you're reduced to 50m/s by a web, you need only reach 25m/s to enter warp. Quote: Can someone please confirm a rumor that I have heard several times which contends that any secure containers anchored in space will be destroyed when Castor is applied? PLEASE tell me it's not true. If it is (panic) then can you tell me whether ships which are left in space will also be destoryed, if no pilot is onboard? We need to know so we can get ourselves prepared! I have heard nothing to substantiate such claims, and presume it is simply the usual wild rumors. If it were to in fact happen, I expect reimbursement would be in order. In other words: Shouldn't be something to worry about. ~ Eight
BigBadToughGuy	Posted - 2003.12.14 03:25:00 - [9] I agree with a lot of the improvements, but does it seem to anyone else that some of these changes tip the balance even further towards making pirates lives easier?
Zoltaris	Posted - 2003.12.14 03:52:00 - [10] Yep, with these changes, pirates can't blockade in empire space anymore (because of the sentries at the gates) but it is VERY hard to get through a blockade from them in 0.0 space (very hard for fast ships, impossible for indies) and stasis webs will be much more efficient now... so overall, yeah, pirates will have it easier!

Deep Spacer	Posted - 2003.12.14 03:58:00 - [11] This update seems like it will make life impossible for jump in campers. Real pirates may or may not get help with this, but you will just have to see. I see no problem with real pirates getting a boost, as long as campers go away. this game needs pirates as it does miners, hunters and traders, without pirates and risk it would become a very boring universe. this update looks pretty kool, but it seems to be lacking in the new stuff department (ships!!!!!) but anything new is a good thing good job
Cael	Posted - 2003.12.14 04:04:00 - [12] Quote: You must be within 2.5km of the gate to Jump Awww thanks for moaning against gatecampers!
Amin	Posted - 2003.12.14 04:05:00 - [13] Thanks, this is exactly the kind of summary we needed. Great work Quote: Sec rating and pirate corp standing will only be affected by the 'largest' pirate you kill in each 10 minutes of pirate combat. Does this mean, for example, if i kill 3 x 30k rats and 1 x 50k rat, in 10 minutes, that my sec rating will only improve by the bonus given from the 50k rat? Quote: Afterburners and MicroWarpdrives are now rated in three classes: 1, 10, and 100 MegaNewtons. Any idea what wil happen to current ab/mwd's. If they are converted into the new system, what size will they be? This affects the rare types more. Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator Caldari State Citizen ------------------------------------------------------------------------
nails	Posted - 2003.12.14 04:32:00 - [14] Thanks for the info Eight, an excellent breakdown of Castor. ------------------ http://ota-corps.otaku.jp -- Anime l33t level
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.12.14 04:55:00 - [15] "Market" ... It seems the Market now supports purchase and sales of player-controlled company shares as 'freight goods' as well... o.O
ga'ia	Posted - 2003.12.14 04:56:00 - [16] Great! Good job =) __________________________________________________________
Babar	Posted - 2003.12.14 05:03:00 - [17] Edited by: Babar on 14/12/2003 05:06:35 Quote: Market If you have insufficient funds to fulfill a buy order you have placed on the market and someone attempts to sell to you, you will be fined 10% of the price of either the sell order or the buy order, whichever is less, and your order will be cancelled. (added) If i have the needed amount on my character when placing the order, but then transfer all isk to another character (or even account), this would affect me how? You need to take an escrow for buy orders guys. Money up front. Nothing to say on the correctness/lack thereof, though, if this is what's implemented.. ;)
Igwilve	Posted - 2003.12.14 05:36:00 - [18] Quote: If i have the needed amount on my character when placing the order, but then transfer all isk to another character (or even account), this would affect me how? You get fined based on whether you have the money at the time the order is filled. So, you can risk placing a buy order you can't cover if you don't expect it will be filled all at once. If it is, you get fined. Now, how is the fine applied to a character with 0 ISK?
Dar Torn	Posted - 2003.12.14 06:04:00 - [19] Thanks for the info. Was wondering how you justify a battleship having worse targeting ability over a cruiser or frigate. I can see the small ship being harder to target but not the bigger ship being slow just because it is bigger. I will have to see how the new jumpin system works out. Do you get to pick which gate you jump to, is it random, or is it the gate to the system you just came from?
Sulerian	Posted - 2003.12.14 06:04:00 - [20] So hmm do taxes work yet?

Lord Annubis	Posted - 2003.12.14 06:11:00 - [21] Oh thats just great...real greatIam a newbie and well...what are you all going on about?..umm i should get back to my mining really but iam gonna nag at somthing that happened to me...i went on a lil mission with my second ship and i named it peacfull explorer..it was a minmatar probe ship..very very crude and couldnt harm a fly...also it was fitted with nothing but miners.....so i goes on this long voyage to outer gate...but on the way just as i jump through sum gate (about 3 gates from outer gate) just as i reach the other side these two grwat big honking motherships appear out of this black hole thing and fire this other thing that renders me unable to move:( then they kill me....so iam guessing this is what gate camping is right?...well i didnt really understand what was mentioned above,only because i dont understand the original game itself..as ive only been playing for a week...could anyone do me a huge favour and tell me straight....will i now be able to maybe...say...slip past these gate hugging ninken ****s and find me some good ore?..i think us newbies should have more access to that rich mineral begining with k or watever....anyways thats all oh and 1 more thing i loooovvveeeee this game
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2003.12.14 06:18:00 - [22] if its the old fine system they had in beta, then you get a bill much like you do for re-renting a factory or lab, if you dont pay it it increases (interest) possibly a few times, if you still dont pay it the scc sics concord on you :P . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
DeadPerson	Posted - 2003.12.14 06:30:00 - [23] What will happen to AB's and MWD's that we already have? Three Man I Admire Most: The Father, Son and The Holy Ghost...Has cought the last train for the coast.
TimeKeepr	Posted - 2003.12.14 06:32:00 - [24] sounds like some good stuff, im glad i renewed my subscription
Golgrath	Posted - 2003.12.14 06:40:00 - [25] Good job Eight. Some things you forgot: * Agents are divided into different departments (like internal security department agents give mostly kill missions). * Continuos seeding of NPC market supply (i'm not sure if this is in). * Various changes to guns and ammo.
Antonia	Posted - 2003.12.14 06:43:00 - [26] Edited by: Antonia on 14/12/2003 09:44:57 Like the summary but some rumors and questions still unanswered. Like the loss of the ship deployed cargo can mining. It was rumored that we can only use secures now. Saw no mention of any added items....you know the refineries, cloaking devices... things that are being tested on Chaos are they gonna launch with Castor or be held for a bit longer? Also ill the rumored battleship pirates be dropping large items? [color=yellow]Always watching, never seen..... ever silent , always listening....[/color]
CHUMSICLE	Posted - 2003.12.14 06:43:00 - [27] This is how the bill is applied, at least the last I checked. If you run out of money you get billed the 10% from Eve Market. Until you pay that bill you can't use some parts of the market. I don't remember if usurper included my suggestion of using the interest feature of the bill system :p Last I checked, i had a 2 mil. bill to the eve market. Sales Manager for Expanded Minds Inc - We suffer the tedium of R&D so you dont have to
CHUMSICLE	Posted - 2003.12.14 06:46:00 - [28] Oh, Eight. Has TomB told you that I own the right to kill you? Might want to talk to him about that :p Sales Manager for Expanded Minds Inc - We suffer the tedium of R&D so you dont have to
Rigger	Posted - 2003.12.14 07:23:00 - [29] i think the new microwarp and afterburn so called fix is a bunch of trash (to much of a change to cpu) and afterburnes needing 100 cpu is nuts should just say u can only use one microwarp and 2 afterburners max would have fixed the prob now this game is gone way south u will lose in masss most of your player base when this so called idea comes out. vary sad the game started out good and ever since has been going down the drain. hope u guys got a night job thank you for the game but see you after the patch.
NoS Dingo	Posted - 2003.12.14 07:37:00 - [30] I have to agree Rigger. With my satelite connection, PvP is not a viable option due to drop outs and connection lag. So instead, I "had" a nice manufacturing/mining character. I say had, because now I won't be able to get hold of or research a tech 2 blueprint unless I submit to the CCP blackmail of doing agent missions. Why is this now a requirement? I can always go watch TV while travelling of course, now that ABs and MWD are being nerfed as well. Who cares about the isk paid for the modules.. who gives a sh1t. Lets just halve their performance. Lets just double travel time. It is the most enjoyable part of the game as we all know. Please, CCP, pull your heads out of your *** and wake up to the fact you have (soon to be had) many different types of players, and that you are screwing them over. Then you MIGHT realise why people are leaving the game.

Eayon	Posted - 2003.12.14 07:52:00 - [31] Quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ships must surpass one half of their maximum speed before they enter warp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- meaning i.e. having top speed 200 m/s, warp will not begin now till ship exceeds 100 m/s (and aligned for warp) ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe you've got it. As soon as you are both aligned and exceeding half of your maximum speed you will enter warp. It is perhaps worth noting that Stasis Webifiers and the like affect your max speed, so if you're reduced to 50m/s by a web, you need only reach 25m/s to enter warp. Does this also mean I will be penalized if I have high Navigation skill and/or ship skill speed bonus? ________________________________ "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
D'uu M'ii	Posted - 2003.12.14 07:53:00 - [32] Jeez, people. Try it out live before you start saying you're going to quit. Why do so many talk for others saying such and such amount will quit. I've tested some things on Chaos and liked some didn't like others but the stuff I don't like will mess up everyone equally. I'll learn how to play with the changes. Think about what the programmers are having to do just to write the code for this. It must be massive. I hate coding and am D@mn glad these people are there to do it so I/we can enjoy this game. Good job CCP! Good job Eight!
Tirren	Posted - 2003.12.14 08:13:00 - [33] Only beef I have with the changes are those regarding the warp in at the previous systems gate. (GREAT for Pirates who want to keep anyone from entering low sec space). It really makes no since, your not using the second gate to jump into, you just "jump" period to the next system. I personally liked jumping into my home system and being at my station instead of having to warp to a station, coming 50-70km away and having my indi take forever on what little power afterburners give to get home, and to top it off my afterburners will probably be basically useless after patch. The 2.5km to jump seems excessive but is workable except pirates allready have a good advantage over non-pirates who do not like pvp now they will have more. I feel nervous enough jumping into any system with a less than .6 rating and I only do that because most missions require that at the current time, even level 1 and 2 agent missions. Of course there are the good things, but just because some people love PvP doesn't mean you should make me just a big piece of slow floating meat you can gun down before i can ever get to the gate to warp through. Perhaps if enough people speak out against the "bad" changes they will change them back, but in my gaming experience, even the things that 99% of the player base hates, never get removed because it is too big of a hasstle. I guess we can only hope they aren't too bad, but my one brief experience with Chaos isn't giving me hope there, unless they drastically changed what they allready had. *"I can only take so much before I'll blow up my own ship. Hey isn't that what insurance is for?"* EVE Agent Info Guide v1.21
ShyLion	Posted - 2003.12.14 08:27:00 - [34] Indies are not supposed as agent mission vessels, i guess.
BOHICA	Posted - 2003.12.14 08:28:00 - [35] What about the trade and broker skills...will they be instituted in the castor patch or will I be waiting another month for them to take affect?
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2003.12.14 08:34:00 - [36] the last thing I heard a dev say about trade skills was that they would cause too much lag if they worked on the normal market ..so they would be made to have some use when they get around to the black market eventually (no timeframe on that) . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Tumtiddilly	Posted - 2003.12.14 09:05:00 - [37] Yay, thats 2morrow!! Can't wait, but will the bug where if you enter a station with your cargohold window in the topleft it will not apear in the station untill you move somthing below it be fixed? ------
NoS Dingo	Posted - 2003.12.14 09:33:00 - [38] Quote: Why do so many talk for others saying such and such amount will quit. Probably the decreasing numbers each month? Quote: I'll learn how to play with the changes. Think about what the programmers are having to do just to write the code for this. It must be massive. I hate coding and am D@mn glad these people are there to do it so I/we can enjoy this game. I code as well, but I code what people want and try to make the experience better. I listen to people and change what I may have thought was a good idea, to what the 'user' actually wants. The greatest code, can still be sh1t if it is not what the users want.
FileCop AI	Posted - 2003.12.14 09:50:00 - [39] uhm, are you sure it's even possible to get within 2.5km of a all gates from all directions?? FileCop AI of MASS Co-CEO
johnathan	Posted - 2003.12.14 09:55:00 - [40] no new ships same rat race to get to battle ships, same pirats with advanced gatcamping skills ,no new content, tech lvl 2 not realy in the game just with the soontm, mark wish i could put the soontm mark on my credit card when it came time to pay my bill. afterburners with 100 cpu req what where you guys smoking.another patch that should have ben good but realy blows. people who have ben playing this game since the start have nothing to show but skill isk an the same ships day after day, new players are catchin up in this rat race because some of the older players have ben siting ontop geting tired an moveing on. Bad command or filename. Go stand in the corner. Programmer: An ingenious device that converts caffeine into code.

Jonaaz Dsz	Posted - 2003.12.14 10:17:00 - [41] Quote: Orders are now First In First Out, as opposed to previously Last In First Out. That is, if two identical orders are placed, the first one placed will be met first. Quote: huh .. surprise .. Ive always assumed it was FIFO (First In First Out). Ive never ever even thought it might be different. Hmm I should have known this abit earlier. Could have saved/made a bit extra on the market. Oh well glad its fixed :) Eight : Nice with a summary - Nice to have all those rumors flying around either confirmed or killed. Good work :) "magnibit lenibit ulteribit" Oberon Inc, incl Oberon Tech II sales
vixit	Posted - 2003.12.14 10:26:00 - [42] Nice, more like the "real" world Stop whining everyone, play first and see what this will do. New ships will come just be patient! This game is getting better and better! CU in EvE
Nuclear Baggins	Posted - 2003.12.14 10:37:00 - [43] Edited by: Nuclear Baggins on 14/12/2003 10:38:19 Quote: Nice, more like the "real" world Sorry but im here to play a game which should be fun real world is boring what why people play GAMES just my 2isk worth no offence Vixit
zeligs	Posted - 2003.12.14 10:56:00 - [44] Quote: Nice, more like the "real" world Stop whining everyone, play first and see what this will do. New ships will come just be patient! This game is getting better and better! CU in EvE The changes make travel slow. The MWDS are less powerful. Travel after jumping thru a gate in 0.0 practically means you have to identify where the gate is in relation to yourself, fly 20k away (possibly in the wrong direction to your preferred destination), turn then warp. This has been a manual process in those areas where the autopilot wasnt working. If the gate is camped, possibly by a few frigates, you will be very lucky to survive. I guess that aspect is fair enough. On the plus side, warping is faster. Just dont expect to be able to autopilot through 0.0 with one eye on local while flipping to and from the map looking for trouble spots. Whining? This is feedback. Its what a forum is for If Eve gets tediously boring because of the increased travel times, people will play other games. THIS is the real world. Z
Helison	Posted - 2003.12.14 10:59:00 - [45] Standings: )Gain of faction standing (as opposed to just corp standing) occurs only on "important" missions for lvl2 and lvl3 agents. Agents: Quote:* Increasing your standing with an NPC corp (by missions or otherwise) will allow you access to higher agents. I don¦t think there is any "otherwise" at the moment. Research agents: Quote: Research projects accumulate Research Points (RPs) over time based on player skill, the agent's skill, the agent's quality, as well as standings. Perhaps you have to remove "as well as standings", I have have asked PapaSmurf for it.
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:01:00 - [46] Great patch, i can't wait... To have more dollars to spend on another game. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:01:00 - [47] What about deep core mining and elite frigates ?
Nuclear Baggins	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:08:00 - [48] Quote: Great patch, i can't wait... To have more dollars to spend on another game. ROFLMAO
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:09:00 - [49] Quote: What about deep core mining and elite frigates ? Tech 3 maybe, maybe tech 4. Considering it takes them well over 4 months in Criellere or whatever that stations name is. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Styx Alundar	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:13:00 - [50] Pff, it's just a...fixed patch and nothing really new :( ...any other comments...argg No one can go back and make a new begining but anyone can start and make a happy ending.... Copy and paste this code into your signature: --- EVE Online Forum: --- UBBCode: [url=http://www.eve-marketplace.com/list.php?char=Styx%20Alundar][/url]

DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:15:00 - [51] Quote: Pff, it's just a...fixed patch and nothing really new :( ...any other comments...argg You get to play with Battleships! yay!.. oh wait... its rumoured... __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Snord	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:15:00 - [52] Too many doom merchants here. The changes proposed are quite reasonable and i beleive will make the gameplay better. I think the EVE devs have got it all spot on. I came to this game from Asherons Call 2 now if you want to see a game messed up by continual nerfs lack of content and no depth go take a quick look at that.... then log back into EVE.
Jake Pliskin	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:16:00 - [53] Edited by: Jake Pliskin on 14/12/2003 11:35:11 -- moving my post into the thread on this subject --
BigBadToughGuy	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:19:00 - [54] I would say a majority of people like the challenge pirates create, both PC and NPC. But when CCP continually makes it easier for player pirates to waste everyone, it tips the balance in their favor. Look at the effect we are already seeing on the markets, it is hard enough surviving in 0.0 space now to get the mega and zyd producing ores. Less mega and zyd are driving up ship prices to levels I have never seen in 6 months of playing and it is going to get worse when its nearly impossible to get out there. For new ships, we've gained shuttles and not much else, what could the hold up be? I love this game and I can only imagine how hard it is to keep this game balanced, but balanced for all players should be a priority. Hopefully this will generate some good feedback.
Panzer Faust	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:25:00 - [55] One speech : wait & see!! --- Proud Owner of a Navy Issue Raven.
Cekle Skyscales	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:31:00 - [56] Quote: I personally liked jumping into my home system and being at my station instead of having to warp to a station, coming 50-70km away and having my indi take forever on what little power afterburners give to get home A new feature is the ability to warp exactly 20 KM from your target, or 30, 40, or 50, it's on the test server and comes in MUCHNESS of handy ^_^ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
OFFT	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:42:00 - [57] I agree wait and see... Adapt and Overcome. OFFT FORM LIFE :SIMPLE IN A COMPLICATED WAY Some players make EVE history : Other players are EVE history "We cant all be heroes because somebody has to sit on the curb and and clap as they go by" scooooshcrumpzerump (c) Random RandomnesesesesÖ
Pulsar	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:44:00 - [58] I am so disappointed it's not even funny. This is not a release, this contains nothing but balancing (which even that CCP got wrong) and frills. Where are the deployables, where is deep space mining (skills, stations, etc)? Where is the promised real trading capability? Even if trade was given, how is it supposed to be done when one is in an Indie, pops 12km from a gate, can't warp, and would take some 180 seconds to be able to warp to safety. That's one dead Indy. Now we are being coerced into doing missions, and even that CCP has seen in their infinite wisdom to halt repeatedly unless you are one of those priviledged person that can spend 24/7 glued to the game. To top it all, regardless of work put in, we're still going through a 'raffle' where there is no way to ensure honesty. How much are you willing to bet that small time operators will either never see a BP or only the lower ones? Eight, you've done an excellent job reporting on the changes, but anyone saying this is a great release either lacks the experience to understand what this means, or works for CCP. PC pirates were just handed a dream of a lifetime, and I foresee they'll be the only ones playing because no one else can survive. How many players will bother doing missions when they get destroyed every chance those grievers have? I was willing to work a mining sim for a while to give CCP a chance to gear the game up, but it looks like that's not in the plans. Conceptually, Eve has great potential, and given the actual implementation, one cannot question the technical know-how at CCP, so one must fault the lack of vision. There is nothing in that release that cannot wait until CCP gets a real release. I strongly recommend CCP holds on Castor. Regardless, I will try it out, but I know, first time destroyed because of those changes and it will be my automatic cancellation from Eve.
Kendo Nagis	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:49:00 - [59] Quote: Regarding the Afterburner-MWD Changes. All i know is that on Chaos,my Battleship was fitting with one MWD (standard market item) and one afterburner (NPC Pirate loot version) After the patch that changed over to the meganewton's, my MWD and afterburner were changed to the standard meganewton MWD + afterburner. (ie - the smallest sized ones) Fitted on a battleship, there was hardly any extra speed at all when i activated them. If the patch works in the same way on TQ tomorrow, then people who fly cruisers and battleships especially will be flying a lot more slowly in-space, and i'm sure there will a lot of shouting and yelling "they broke my mwd drive" and so forth This pretty much sums it up. Standard Meganewton Drives - fit on frigates / indies Meganewton 10 - Cruisers Meganewton 100 - battleships As for how we'll get these, i could not say. Will they be available to buy on the NPC market? Will the blueprints be made available, so manufacturing corps can start making them and selling to pilots? Jake has prety much summed it up, unless you have some fantastic AB or MWD, they all become Frigate class modules. So if you're a miner like myself, you'll have to scout the belts in a frig, make your bm's and then change to your BS/Cruiser to mine and once you're ready jump in your incredably slow bus,(especially if you have expanders fitted, like most miners), and pray your bm's work perfectly. Other wise, npc rat's will be a major problem in the lower sec areas, forget about the PC pirates. It is also going to effect travel between systems, as your bus, filled with minerals/goods, might as well have a sign saying "sitting Duck, valuable cargo, come kill me", so for the solo miner/cargo runner, life will become almost impossible. How long will it take to do the 20k to the gate at 53m/s... longer than you'll live, even if it is only npc's! This is the only part about this patch I find appauling, the rest should make play a lot better, but the dev's do seem to forget that not everyone want's to go pvp all the time :( __________________________ "Death before dishonour, so long as it doesnÆt cost too much."
Blueblooded	Posted - 2003.12.14 11:55:00 - [60] This are great changes! I guess it take some time to adapt to the changes but that's what makes a game that envolves even more fun to play... ---------------------------------------- "The royal blood is blue, hence my name"

DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.12.14 12:08:00 - [61] Quote: I am so disappointed it's not even funny. This is not a release, this contains nothing but balancing (which even that CCP got wrong) and frills. Where are the deployables, where is deep space mining (skills, stations, etc)? Where is the promised real trading capability? Even if trade was given, how is it supposed to be done when one is in an Indie, pops 12km from a gate, can't warp, and would take some 180 seconds to be able to warp to safety. That's one dead Indy. Now we are being coerced into doing missions, and even that CCP has seen in their infinite wisdom to halt repeatedly unless you are one of those priviledged person that can spend 24/7 glued to the game. To top it all, regardless of work put in, we're still going through a 'raffle' where there is no way to ensure honesty. How much are you willing to bet that small time operators will either never see a BP or only the lower ones? Eight, you've done an excellent job reporting on the changes, but anyone saying this is a great release either lacks the experience to understand what this means, or works for CCP. PC pirates were just handed a dream of a lifetime, and I foresee they'll be the only ones playing because no one else can survive. How many players will bother doing missions when they get destroyed every chance those grievers have? I was willing to work a mining sim for a while to give CCP a chance to gear the game up, but it looks like that's not in the plans. Conceptually, Eve has great potential, and given the actual implementation, one cannot question the technical know-how at CCP, so one must fault the lack of vision. There is nothing in that release that cannot wait until CCP gets a real release. I strongly recommend CCP holds on Castor. Regardless, I will try it out, but I know, first time destroyed because of those changes and it will be my automatic cancellation from Eve. Sums it up, topic can be closed. oh... __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Zulu Alpha	Posted - 2003.12.14 12:21:00 - [62] Edited by: Zulu Alpha on 14/12/2003 12:22:01 Urrgh! Having to do missions even though I hate them, working five times as hard for sec rating, lots of things to slow the game down in elements that are already too slow (indy ship speed, abs, mwds, ship's mass?),lots more low sec system camping, the market misbehaving even more then usual. Time to join 'Pirates of The Burning Sea' methinks. It was fun. Great game. See you in a year or two when some of the terrible mistakes have been remedied! Another opportunity missed. Zulu Alpha Vortex Inc
Ardanwen	Posted - 2003.12.14 12:54:00 - [63] I really like the patch. For those who complain, nobody is making you do agent missions. you can always buy the blueprints from players who get them through agent missions. The only effect i see in this patch is NOT that it becomes easier for pirates, but only that it becomes a bit harder for freelancers. A freelancer will not be able to be as effective as a whole corporation anymore. Now i'm sure that all you freelancers don't like this patch, but i can't be bothered about that. This is not a single player game, its a mass multiplayer online game.
Megagame	Posted - 2003.12.14 12:56:00 - [64] if you go to 0,0 space, brings guns. If you do it in a indy, bring someone how has guns! this is a mmopg. Massiv! more then one. grup up to fight. Now I become death, the destroyer of worlds
Chade Malloy	Posted - 2003.12.14 13:04:00 - [65] Edited by: Chade Malloy on 14/12/2003 13:04:58 Darn...Missions don¦t concern me, i dont want to research. I don¦t want to manufacture something, cause i don¦t have a corp, i don¦t want to spent endless hours of my life sitting next to a slow rotating chunk of rock watching my cargo. What i want to do is good old freelance trade! WHY the hell are CCP not respoding to that? Not everyone wants PvP, not everyone wants to be in a corp! What about the self-seeding Maket that has been promised? Is it possible with castor to sell loot items on theregular market? I think NO. They nerfed MWD¦s and AB¦s, indys now take AGES to make a 10 jump-trade run while they are sitting ducks for everyone included the new wannabe n00b pirate with two n00b-blasters! Hell, if you nerf indies THAT much, then please, please, please give them at least 5000 shields and 10000 armor, so they don¦t just make popp when a BS is passing by! MAKE them freakin¦ hard nuggets to ****, goddammit, these things are hauling goods often worth 10 millions and above!! Patience wins.*
Mistress D'Malice	Posted - 2003.12.14 13:15:00 - [66] My god people your horrible. We have all complained about so many of these issues over the last few months and they finally drop a patch in to resolve some of them and all you guys do is ***** and moan. Dont get me wrong, there are some VERY big questions about this patch and its overall effectiveness. But at least they are doing something to TRY and balance the game a bit. Try and keep an open mind and see how it comes down. Black Lotus Official Forums - www.blacklotusclan.com Contact Me - [email protected]
Symeonis Porphory	Posted - 2003.12.14 13:48:00 - [67] Edited by: Symeonis Porphory on 14/12/2003 13:52:08 Quote: Standing decay is now properly implemented and occurs at 5% a week (that is: Multiplied by 0.95, NOT reduced by 0.05). Gain of faction standing (as opposed to just corp standing) occurs only on "important" missions. Will the standing decay be coupled to the number of hours you spend online? I am usually limited to spending 1-3 evenings per week in-game. Combatting 5% decay could sometimes become a problem just because of that. If I am a away from some time, it might become very difficult indeed. This is especially true of faction standing: if it decays every week, and gain is only possible with some of the missions, it could get very tricky. (I can easily imagine not getting enough "important" missions to maintain standing) I don't mind if I cannot get the same results as those who spend entire days in-game, but I would be rather dissapointed if I could reach a maximum maintainable standing of, say, only 2.0.
Dark Barron	Posted - 2003.12.14 13:53:00 - [68] Sounds to me like the Pirates are goin gto get stronger and increase in number. and the Honest living corp makers will have to fight harder for resources. Things are going to get very violent in the near future. I am looking forward to it. Escort duties may well finaly start to pay.
Rutherford	Posted - 2003.12.14 13:57:00 - [69] Well the changes to the travel system is going to bring me from 15 million per hour in 0.0 space to about 3 million per hour in Empire Space. :(
LocalHost	Posted - 2003.12.14 14:05:00 - [70] Great Job Eight! \|Father of 1\|Master of All\|

lanaar	Posted - 2003.12.14 14:07:00 - [71] Am I missing the point? I get the distinct impression that research agents and their missions are unlikely to be the "take x spiced wine to y" variety... More like joining in and researching something... Sounds good to me.
Saris	Posted - 2003.12.14 14:21:00 - [72] Okay so now i have to be a pirate i dont want to be a pirate i just want to play the game the way i want why even buy an indy it will take several hours to get anywhere of important you say wait for the patch fine I will wait, about 10 seconds after reliazing that i must either be a pirate or stop playing
8t88	Posted - 2003.12.14 14:30:00 - [73] Quote: ... but keep 'reaction' responses and discussion in the individual threads for each topic. This is to be an informational thread only.... Why is it so impossible to read? I think there should be a player vote-based system at the boards and only ppl with high board-standings should be able to post onto such threads. [to the flamers: you should be glad to have such a dev team, every1 is able to post petitions, mail ideas, get involved into the live developement on Test Server Give me another game where devs are involving the community so much. Stop flaming, whining and the such. Think about it.]
Supersonix	Posted - 2003.12.14 14:31:00 - [74] Nice info. But how do MWD's and AB's work when your ship has a lot of cargo? Does your cargo affect that in any way? Support the Alternative market proposition. Clicky clicky.
Lord Darcy	Posted - 2003.12.14 14:41:00 - [75] First let me say great Summary. Thank you. Second the travel changes are better simply because it will force people to team up more in a game that is suposed to be about group operations, so just hush up and read any of the sales litrature from CCP on the game and stop complaining and make a few friends instead. Third, CCP please Please put in mobile refineries etc. fast as you can. Im sick of paying for 4 accounts and thier being absolutly no real strategic game for me to participate in. right now large or small groups have very little reason to do things because its impossible to establish territory. Lastly, PvP is an essential part of the game because as of now I know exactly what to bring along to deal with Belt NPC's. Either i have it or i don't go. That's BORING. Player Pirates provide the only real unpredictibility in the game. BUT everyone hates PvP pirates because right now the only reason to do it is to take away the time ive put into my ship and character so Player pirates are really just Ass Ho***. Put in some sort of capture or boarding ability so that they can at least capture your ship and sell it for a profit or use it etc. like the real pirates used to do. Prize (ship) money was the real money maker in piracy. Make these changes mean something! IM GETTING BOARD
Dee Sturbd	Posted - 2003.12.14 15:02:00 - [76] Edited by: Dee Sturbd on 14/12/2003 15:08:14 The Jump In Point into a system is now 12km from the gate leading back to the system you came from. You must be within 2.5km of the gate to Jump. When warping in to a gate (or other object) you now have the option to arrive 20, 30, 40, or 50 km from the gate. Gates now produce Warp Disruption Field which prevents ships from warping within 20km. "Advanced Technology has been implemented by the major empires to stabilize this effect in their own gates". Hmmm. let's see. 20k from gate, can't jump until 2.5k..... so, looks like about 17.5km of praying. If you see me, look real close and you will find 2 little oars sticking out of the sides of my ship because I will be rowing my ass off My alt character is a serial killer...he is happy with the changes and will be awaiting his next victim 21k away from some gate...
BlackPlague	Posted - 2003.12.14 15:06:00 - [77] This is so bad.... im speechless. Ill give it a week or two...but i think i'm gonna be closing my other accounts. My Siggie Scares Seleene... Boo!
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.12.14 15:25:00 - [78] Quote: First let me say great Summary. Thank you. Second the travel changes are better simply because it will force people to team up more in a game that is suposed to be about group operations, so just hush up and read any of the sales litrature from CCP on the game and stop complaining and make a few friends instead. Third, CCP please Please put in mobile refineries etc. fast as you can. Im sick of paying for 4 accounts and thier being absolutly no real strategic game for me to participate in. right now large or small groups have very little reason to do things because its impossible to establish territory. Lastly, PvP is an essential part of the game because as of now I know exactly what to bring along to deal with Belt NPC's. Either i have it or i don't go. That's BORING. Player Pirates provide the only real unpredictibility in the game. BUT everyone hates PvP pirates because right now the only reason to do it is to take away the time ive put into my ship and character so Player pirates are really just Ass Ho***. Put in some sort of capture or boarding ability so that they can at least capture your ship and sell it for a profit or use it etc. like the real pirates used to do. Prize (ship) money was the real money maker in piracy. Make these changes mean something! IM GETTING BOARD So your telling me that if you go farming to 0.0 you bring all your friends to give your bs an escort with frigs + cruisers just so you can go farming in 0.0 space? __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
NEFTOON ZAMORA	Posted - 2003.12.14 15:32:00 - [79] It always looks good on paper...or when you hammer out the figures.... But maybe CCP should try playing the game and see how much it sucks the life out of them when they try and get somewhere the slow way....seems like they should addmit that they want more PvP....and realize the people that pay for the game are the same people who have spent hours of their life to get this far....I'll give the game a chance...see what happens.... but I don't like feeling like I've wasted my time thinking I could get somewhere by hard work.....time to give them what they want....more aggression.....more PvP....and again CCP needs to actually spend the time playing the game!!!!...see how it feels. Bah Hum Bug!!!
Lord Dunsal	Posted - 2003.12.14 16:13:00 - [80] Quote: Quote: First let me say great Summary. Thank you. Second the travel changes are better simply because it will force people to team up more in a game that is suposed to be about group operations, so just hush up and read any of the sales litrature from CCP on the game and stop complaining and make a few friends instead. Third, CCP please Please put in mobile refineries etc. fast as you can. Im sick of paying for 4 accounts and thier being absolutly no real strategic game for me to participate in. right now large or small groups have very little reason to do things because its impossible to establish territory. Lastly, PvP is an essential part of the game because as of now I know exactly what to bring along to deal with Belt NPC's. Either i have it or i don't go. That's BORING. Player Pirates provide the only real unpredictibility in the game. BUT everyone hates PvP pirates because right now the only reason to do it is to take away the time ive put into my ship and character so Player pirates are really just Ass Ho***. Put in some sort of capture or boarding ability so that they can at least capture your ship and sell it for a profit or use it etc. like the real pirates used to do. Prize (ship) money was the real money maker in piracy. Make these changes mean something! IM GETTING BOARD So your telling me that if you go farming to 0.0 you bring all your friends to give your bs an escort with frigs + cruisers just so you can go farming in 0.0 space? Thats why i said activate impliment or just plain PUT in mobile refineries and turrets so I and all my friends can at least try and secure a 0.0 system or belt, mine it and then put together a well armed convoy to move the mins to a useful place.

Dragothmar	Posted - 2003.12.14 16:42:00 - [81] This is beginning to annoy me, there's been no new content in eve since I started playing, just teeny tweaks and nerfs. I'm sick of logging in to find that on top of nothing new to play with all the old stuff I used to play with has been screwed with... Why not just take a holistic approach to balancing? If something owns just introduce something that owns it, and if that owns just find some other way to tip the scales again! at least that way there's more entertainment value introduced with every patch. The whole point of an mmog is that there's new stuff all the time! Look at SWG, Jedis (plural form = jedis/Jedi's?) have just come of age, mounts were introduced last month, vehicles are coming next week or so... Where the heck is the 'evolving and involving gameplay' for eve??? Not a flame, just a question... Good job with designing a universe CCP - now DEVELOP it! Wesside? Nah, NOOOORTHSIIIIHEEEEEED in da house!
DIAL911	Posted - 2003.12.14 16:55:00 - [82] Edited by: DIAL911 on 14/12/2003 16:56:22 Way to give the royal screwjob to all the little people in this game, you wanted us out of empire space and into 0.0? This is going to do exactly the opposite, now pirates can just sit at all the entrance gates to 0.0 and pick us off as we try to make even a tiny living. You shouldn't have to be in a 1000 member mega corp to have even a small chance in this game at doing anything other than sitting in high security empire space twiddling your thumbs. DIAL911
Domaru	Posted - 2003.12.14 17:19:00 - [83] I think they are all good change for the most part. The only ones that bother me are where it seems like a sympton has been fixed and not the problem (1 minute cloak). Not that I have a better way to do it, but you can just see that this is a freakish fix that is not as well thought out as the others. I am sure there will be a better resolution down the read. I also look forward to this patch and the ultimate balancing of it as well which will cause another week-kneed group to cry openly again. Nice work dev team, this is going to be good!! -Domaru www.mentatalliance.com
zaqq	Posted - 2003.12.14 17:54:00 - [84] in one of my posts i said player pirates should have more freedom of movement, i said nothing about handing ME TO THEM ON A PLATE, thanx a friggin bunch, oh does it say on the box, " player can be whatever they want to be" er think thats bu----it. cough be a successfull freelancer, er how is that ? so now i jump into a 00 roid field, get shot to pieces b4 i even get a lock ? gonna be interestin, ONCE. if it suks like i think its gonna, then i'm outa here too. 30 + jumps in a nerfed indy, can't wait, NOT.
Gaelron	Posted - 2003.12.14 18:43:00 - [85] But its still really hard to kill a NPC convoy but its easy as heck to get PC ones? I am not into ruining people's day. I would rather be able to knock a NPC convoy than a PC one, just to not be a assh@!e.
Clystan	Posted - 2003.12.14 19:28:00 - [86] I can't wait to see how my iteron 5 works now. I have 4 ABs on it. I already stop on average 20-30 k out from the gates. My top speed is 200 with all abs firing. If it takes any longer for me to get to the gates, I will probably think about stopping my subscription. I have spent a lot of time training abilities and buying equipment and it doesn't seem to matter. I can't ever seem to go faster. I would have to say that waiting at gates is about as boring as it can get. The fact that gate camping is being encouraged is silly. The game can be WAY more creative than that. Gate camping should be nerfed and pirates should be given more creative tools. For instance, deployable warp disrupters that could take a ship out of warp in the middle of nowhere. Plus, I am really saddened that the path of training a skill to get you closer to the gates wasn't introduced. CCP - please understand this - players who play the game the longest SHOULD be the richest and the fastest. There must be a distinct advantage to training long and hard translated into travel times. I wish there were skills that could get you closer to the damn gates and stations. Its BS that there is not at this point. Please understand that NO ONE WANTS TO TRAVEL SLOW. Figure it out. Speed is fun. Nerf the game speed, people lose interest. End of story. Read and heed.
Kinnison	Posted - 2003.12.14 19:42:00 - [87] I have very little to add to all the other comments, but: I bought this game because of favourable reviews. At the moment, if none of my corpmates are online or if they are all doing something else, then I can still play, travel about, or whatever else. With the changes, sounds like every transport will have to have a military escort to move at all, and it'll take forever to get anywhere. This is supposed to be a game, not another job. CCP is going to make piracy the only viable profession in eve. The first time I lose major assets to some 14-year old griefer in a battleship because I am moving at the speed of a snail on Valium will be the last time I play, and my cancellation will follow 10 seconds later.
Avery Knight	Posted - 2003.12.14 20:29:00 - [88] It seems to me you work very hard to get the skills to run the equipment , they should not take it away from you , i don't see a problem of making it no longer available like the harvesters but they should not take stuff and abilities away from you. If this keeps up i will have to start looking for another online game again, im so sick and tired of online games being wrecked by ideas most probably just discussed over an cup of coffe or tea during lunch. This patch i am sure is just one of many to nerf stuff that you spend hours, days, weeks even months getting. Regards Mr. Knight
Tinwhistle	Posted - 2003.12.14 20:35:00 - [89] warning, a little off-topic: Quote: I can't wait to see how my iteron 5 works now. I have 4 ABs on it. I already stop on average 20-30 k out from the gates. My top speed is 200 with all abs firing. hmm, I never used an Iteron, but if you go 200 m/s with 4 standard ABs firing (pre-patch), then your base speed (assuming you have sufficient skills) is about 40 m/s. Ever thought of maybe fitting some less cargo expanders?? Someone else put it nicely in a forum post here not long ago: less greed - more speed! Quote: Please understand that NO ONE WANTS TO TRAVEL SLOW. Figure it out. Speed is fun. That's why my Mammoth comfortably does 1300 m/s with standard equipment (i.e. nothing fancy) at a cargo capacity of 3750 m^3. Yes, that's not much, but I prefer speed. And I daresay I'll have speed after the patch as well. There is always a way. Adapt and overcome, embrace the challenge. At least that's what I will do. Proudly flying the white skull on black! Tinwhistle of the Caribbean League
Rigger	Posted - 2003.12.14 20:59:00 - [90] well been on chaos for a few hours got into fight club, played with the new changes to see how the mwd worked and afterburners works. well looks like i will have much more time on my hands now that eve just took a dive off the deep end of no return. My corp small corp of 23, 13 of them played the new patch and was total disapointed, we where thinking are u refunding all are fee's for the months that we have not played or do we have to call are card companys. i gave a try open minded and no way is this a good idea who ever came up with this idea should be put on the wall ,ask if he like a smoke and then blast them with a beebee gun to death for the pain and suffering we will be having. then look at targeting oh my god this patch just killed the game im with you all but i can tell u by then end of next week their will be 10 people on the live server all dev's ask where did all the people go....

Cell Satimo	Posted - 2003.12.14 21:38:00 - [91] Let's just wait and see how the game goes with the new patch. For those who are sick of waiting for new content, I can understand their frustrations. For the rest of us, we probably would've signed up to EVE if the game was already like this. Try it, Play it and then see what you think. \| Join eve-webring.com to promote your site.
Kilmar	Posted - 2003.12.14 22:23:00 - [92] I'd like to say my personal 'thank you' to Devs for upcoming changes. This is the first time I feel like saying that. I've had many smirks and negative thoughts about many things before but now with this patch I see that Devs care and want to make this game really fun. I haven't experienced these changes on TQ yet but I've tried some on Chaos server and I was amazed about how many times I said "Wow". I really like what they are doing now. Market changes are great! All standing concept is really awesome. I can see how much thought was put into target locking system and I applaud this. Changes to ship speed (MWD,AB) and JIP ... well, yes, this is gonna be harder to deal with than before but hey, firstly, everyone one is gonna be affected by this (not just YOU), and thinking about it more and more i can't say it's bad yet (we'll have to try it on TQ and see). What is important that I believe now if anything hurts gameplay the Devs will just make new steps to resolve issues. I was frustrated (as many of you perhaps) about the simplicity of the game. I am inspired about Eve once again now as I see where all this may turn into. I don't understand posts like "i am gonna suspend/cancel my account if you change this or that". This looks lame to me. We'll have as many opinions about changes as many people play Eve. IMHO, if you never try to change anything and see how it goes you'll never perfect a game. We all just have to accept it and try. And judge later. I cannot wait till tomorrow (monday, 15th of dec) when the path is applied. Yes, there will be problems and fixes and following patches but hey, it's all worth it!!! There are many things still left to do about Eve to make our dreams come true. But it's a long way to go and we are moving there. I myself wish for Devs to think about things like sudden exploration of hidden asteroid fields or stations which can be found only through flying and using your scanner, letting freelancers find something hidden from public eyes. There are many ideas but there are also so many things they have to implements still.. human can do only so many things at once. Let's be patient. Once, again I'd like to thank for the changes and say that I like them (I see much effort and thinking put into it). I could not stay away from expressing my excitement.
Ahriman	Posted - 2003.12.14 22:29:00 - [93] Kool Eight cheeres for dat keep up da gd work man,
Shroud III	Posted - 2003.12.14 22:44:00 - [94] Quote: well been on chaos for a few hours got into fight club, played with the new changes to see how the mwd worked and afterburners works. well looks like i will have much more time on my hands now that eve just took a dive off the deep end of no return. My corp small corp of 23, 13 of them played the new patch and was total disapointed, we where thinking are u refunding all are fee's for the months that we have not played or do we have to call are card companys. i gave a try open minded and no way is this a good idea who ever came up with this idea should be put on the wall ,ask if he like a smoke and then blast them with a beebee gun to death for the pain and suffering we will be having. then look at targeting oh my god this patch just killed the game im with you all but i can tell u by then end of next week their will be 10 people on the live server all dev's ask where did all the people go.... Agreed, I was really starting to get into the game, the first one in a long time that has grabbed my interest. Now it seems that CCP is going to F' this game up due to what they call balancing. I have played for several months or so and see little need for THIS MUCH balancing.
Locuila	Posted - 2003.12.14 22:58:00 - [95] If you use 'place order' your sell order will not be cancelled if it matches a buy order with insufficient funds. (added) So what happens then? Your sell order just goes through like any normal sell order, the the person with the NSF gets a fine? ___________________________________ I love being podded. - Hampstah
White Tiger	Posted - 2003.12.14 23:00:00 - [96] The Last Big Patch had its positives and negatives; Missiles and Torps worked the way they were intended, The Grievers were no longer able to make themselves completely invulnerable to reprisal and CPU boosters lost 20% of their boosting capability (just a few of the things). Stacking Penalties were applied to certain items (Damage Mods, MWDs, etc...) which was a Good Thing since, at the time, my character did not have the ability to use some of those items but fell victim to those who could. This patch is no different...There seems to be good point and bad points, but it appears that this time the bad points outweigh the good. I think it is a great idea that the new JIPs are 12km from the Gate. This will, presumably, make gate camping/JIP camping a thing of the past. That is, IF the sentry guns will respond to a "criminal act" in their presence and IF they will attack more than one target. Otherwise all it will take is a Scorpion with Uber shield mods firing on you first while it's supporting cruisers/frigates come in turn you into a meat Popsicle. On that note, the Grievers are sure to suffer in the short run but they have proven to be the most...er..."resourceful" players in the game. So in the long run it appears that they will benefit the most. Indies will be so slow as to be useless for transporting anything of substance out of 0.0 space; Battleships will prove to be useless for escorting these ships unless they themselves are escorted by cruisers and frigates. By "nerfing" the speed benefits given by the current system from MWD/AB combinations, coupled by the severely limited Points of Entry into 0.0 space, only a select few stand to make any headway in this game. At the expense of others. White Tiger Founding Member and CEO of Tactical Advisory Group "The Only Easy Day was Yesterday."
White Tiger	Posted - 2003.12.14 23:04:00 - [97] One more thing... Originally posted by Ardanwen: Quote: This is not a single player game, its a mass multiplayer online game. Yes...This is a Massive Multiplayer Online Game, however, that titlo does not mean or imply that it is a requirement for people to play TOGETHER; Just that there are other people in the same environment. White Tiger Founding Member and CEO of Tactical Advisory Group "The Only Easy Day was Yesterday."
Shroud III	Posted - 2003.12.14 23:12:00 - [98] Agreed with White Tiger, why have BSs if they are going to be more or less useless? IMO BSs should be some of the most useful vessels in the game, why else should ppl work their butts off to get them?
dutchfreak	Posted - 2003.12.14 23:44:00 - [99] Edited by: dutchfreak on 14/12/2003 23:45:27 Ok... not the changes i expected, but there are some nice thing amongst them. I can relate to the people saying cargo running is going to be hell (come on, 100m/s for 17km with virtually no shield/armor) But it seems we have to sacrifice cargo capacity for speed, which s*cks, but ill live trough it. Alltough i might want some extra Armor on my bestower next time im hauling in a .3 sec system... nice idea next patch? Might just justify the slow speeds Anyway, like somebody else here said: Nice work on eve, now develop it... I wont be cancelling my subscription ... too bad for those who do, ill take yer part of the pie so to say... ------------------------ Remember, my child: Without innocence the cross is only iron, hope is only an illusion & Ocean Soul's nothing but a name... The Child bless thee & keep thee forever ------------------------
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.12.14 23:49:00 - [100] Quote: One more thing... Originally posted by Ardanwen: Quote: This is not a single player game, its a mass multiplayer online game. Yes...This is a Massive Multiplayer Online Game, however, that titlo does not mean or imply that it is a requirement for people to play TOGETHER; Just that there are other people in the same environment. I play together when i want that and i done it alot, but i cannot ask people to escort me 50 jumps so i can drop off a rare item with a buyer and then let me go back to the location to start making money again. Specially if their in frigates and cant mine/kill npc's with such kind of ship. Specially since its going to take ages these days to traffel. CCP made a promise in a CSM chat that they would add more danger to empire space, but this patch only binds me to empire space since there is more risk to get killed in 0.0 space and no risk in empire space. Even if the battleship mining is penalized, its always gets me more money than losing a 105/110mil apoc, rare shield booster, 15-20mil in guns, rare sensor booster shield booster and implants all because i want to go on my way to get me some money. Before this patch non empire space was dangerous, but atleast i had a chance to get out if the pirates failed or made mistakes (what happend in several/many cases). This new patch there has been tested by 3 frigate pilots on chaos against a bs and they took him out... Soon my only way out will be loggin on my alt to save my arse by loggin off, thats not gameplay.. but if its the only way to safe 30 days gaming from now on, im not gonna hesitate to use it. And if the game isnt playable, then there are games like world of warcraft, lineage 2 and more comming out... That will give me some time till ccp either goes bankrupt or changes all back to its old state with tech3, IF all those left will ever come back again. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html

George Clooney	Posted - 2003.12.15 00:05:00 - [101] the ability to stay versatile and open to multiple scenario's was one of the things the kept many ppl from other genre's in this game, after a big change to create anther star wars game.. i think it's safe to say that you will loose a part of your followers due to change in your programming,.. you can't force pple into pvp when all they want to do is raise there security or bankaccounts.. reminds me of hte old days.. 'NO MOM.. I WANT THE RED CANDY !!' 'Interference from warp is preventing my warp stabilizers from activation.. sir'
Hern	Posted - 2003.12.15 00:20:00 - [102] I like the sound of the new stuff accept for the fact that indy is now going to be a slow ass pile of crap. Couldn't there have been an industrial only class drive similar to what is already available? What the new ab system will amount to is a speed boat engine on an oil tanker, which isn't very realistic. An indies only real defence is speed (and it doesn't have too much of that as it is) so nerfing that will make it a sitting duck. I know gate camping no effort whiners (only the gate campers who need 3 of them in a bs to kill a frig and run at the sign of a bs)will say they should be escorted (they really mean don't make me have to work to make a living as a pirate, I like my piracy as boring as mining), but lone players can't escort themselves. looks like the whines of the "I don't like to have to make any effort to kill an indy in my bs" gate campers paid off on this one. How about having this non warp field have a draining effect on shields after a while, that would make things more interesting for us real pirates (the ones who are happy to attack a bs in a kestrel if need be just for the fun of it)
Saturnius	Posted - 2003.12.15 00:33:00 - [103] Edited by: Saturnius on 15/12/2003 00:34:17 If the voices of doom and gloom are to belived, I guess taking the Blue Pill is a good option. Personally I never judge anything until I've tried it. My Org operates a very small operation, mainly dealing with agent missions. (3 man op) Indies are used to suppliment the tiny income with trade runs just post downtime on weekends. So far.. we doing OK.. Can run a BS; can't afford one. We all can afford the insurance on the top line cruisers so for combat we use those. Best advice to everyone is suck it and see; if its not good. Well.. UXO is nearly here Just one last thing, seems most people never exploit more than one area, mainly mining or piracy. Agent missions are boring, but I can still make a million (by myself) in an hour. its not much.. but hey, it pays the in-game bills. Currently we are totally self sufficient, and whilst a BS is a long term goal.. its just that.. long term. <sigh> to sum up Give it a chance people CCP are working hard to make the game even better. And nerfing is bound to be needed (much needed in some areas) in order to asist in the adoption of new ways of doing stuff. Chill out, take the patch.. play it for a week or two and see what happens. I suspect that its not going to be as bad as all that is being said here!!
DHU InMe	Posted - 2003.12.15 01:07:00 - [104] "The market now supports decimal prices to one hundredth (0.01) of an isk." I think that decimal should not go over 0.1 and the decimal should be applied on items that worth less than 50isk (mineral-ore) There no others items that shoul have decimal prices. So .1 of 50 is like 1/500 difference in price. If you let it at .01, it will be joke price war... Nice links (updated 20 Dec 04): BP, bugs about them. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way.
Kilmar	Posted - 2003.12.15 01:33:00 - [105] Quote: "The market now supports decimal prices to one hundredth (0.01) of an isk." I think that decimal should not go over 0.1 and the decimal should be applied on items that worth less than 50isk (mineral-ore) There no others items that shoul have decimal prices. So .1 of 50 is like 1/500 difference in price. If you let it at .01, it will be joke price war... I (spending most time playing with market in Eve) should say that this is actually one of the long waiting change. I love it! 1. There are items on the market right now that cost thousands and millions isk. And there is no as you said 'joke price war'. 2. As for items that cost 10 isk and less (tritanium for example) this will give me a chance to compete. Right now, I cannot. Summary: I believe this change will help people who wish to play on the market and stop people with fat wallets to abuse it.
Estella Fanali	Posted - 2003.12.15 01:48:00 - [106] Here are my opinions on many of te things tat have been said. Industrials should be slow, am i right? get escorts, join a corp So you have to be at 2.5 km to jump.. oh well you have to travel 17.5 km from where you jumped in... from what i understood from past postings was that warping would be faster. I like the afterburners I think we know the arguments for both sides by now. I don't like agent missions, even though i am not a researcher i would not wish it on anyone to be forced into it, however you an buy the skills from people and its seems that its only going to be an occaisional mission so its not too bad. Wy am i even typing this the patch comes out in hours.
DHU InMe	Posted - 2003.12.15 01:52:00 - [107] Edited by: DHU InMe on 15/12/2003 01:54:43 Quote: Quote: I think that decimal should not go over 0.1 and the decimal should be applied on items that worth less than 50isk (mineral-ore) There no others items that shoul have decimal prices. So .1 of 50 is like 1/500 difference in price. If you let it at .01, it will be joke price war... 1. There are items on the market right now that cost thousands and millions isk. And there is no as you said 'joke price war'. 2. As for items that cost 10 isk and less (tritanium for example) this will give me a chance to compete. Right now, I cannot. Summary: I believe this change will help people who wish to play on the market and stop people with fat wallets to abuse it. I sell something at 3000 isk. My neighboard sell it at the same base but at 2999. Now with 0.01 change, It will be like 2999,99. Great, how nice change !!! I agree with point 2 ONLY and ONLY IF the decimal change are APPLY on mineral/ore/item that worth less than 50 ISK. Nice links (updated 20 Dec 04): BP, bugs about them. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way.
Eoa Rena	Posted - 2003.12.15 03:00:00 - [108] Why do you all complain about a big ship with a big cargo being slow, big ships are slow, small ships are fast, i think a cool feature to add would be if you have a full cargo your ship goes slower, i think this patch will make the game much better and more releastic i would much rather have a more realistic game then some game i play that feels fake, like earth and beyond lmao.
Deadzone	Posted - 2003.12.15 04:52:00 - [109] Cab anyone please tell us when we will be bale to sell all the mods we get from npc drops please? Meaning all those named mods that are NOT already for sale on the market from NPC corps...for Example-= Heavy Modulated Lasers. Etc. When are you going to get this ability? Vice-Admiral Executive Commanding Officer Military Command Hadead Drive Yards
NoS Dingo	Posted - 2003.12.15 05:02:00 - [110] Quote: Why do you all complain about a big ship with a big cargo being slow, big ships are slow, small ships are fast, i think a cool feature to add would be if you have a full cargo your ship goes slower, i think this patch will make the game much better and more releastic i would much rather have a more realistic game then some game i play that feels fake, like earth and beyond lmao. Good grief man. If I wanted realism, I would stay at work longer rather than "escape" to the eve universe. If I wanted to fly around in a slow ship, I would go get a job driving a semi trailer. The appeal of this type of game is NOT realism. I hate to break it to you, but we are NOT an intergalatic space faring race yet. There is no realism to be had.

NoS Dingo	Posted - 2003.12.15 05:04:00 - [111] Quote: Cab anyone please tell us when we will be bale to sell all the mods we get from npc drops please? Meaning all those named mods that are NOT already for sale on the market from NPC corps...for Example-= Heavy Modulated Lasers. Etc. When are you going to get this ability? Just wait till they get nerfed like your rare ABs and MWD in this patch, then you can sell them on the market at a fraction of what they cost you.
Father Vegemite	Posted - 2003.12.15 05:33:00 - [112] Quote: First let me say great Summary. Thank you. Second the travel changes are better simply because it will force people to team up more in a game that is suposed to be about group operations, so just hush up and read any of the sales litrature from CCP on the game and stop complaining and make a few friends instead. AHEM....from the E.V.E. FAQ However, the level at which each player decides to participate is a matter of personal choice. The game leaves ample room for continual progress and variety in all its solo playing aspects. For those who opt to do so, becoming the best lone-wolf pirate or bounty hunger is a never-ending task as the competitors are other human players who will employ every method at their disposal to gain an edge over the rest. Solo players are also able to hire out their services as mercenaries or hit men to other players or player-run corporations. The bottom line is that we at CCP have strived to create a rich and immersive universe centered on human interaction. Players can play the game as a simple space trading game or endeavor to control the largest, most powerful company in the universe. We provide the rules and tools, but it is the players themselves who create the adventures. ------------- FV
dosperado	Posted - 2003.12.15 06:21:00 - [113] Edited by: dosperado on 15/12/2003 06:30:14 Edited by: dosperado on 15/12/2003 06:22:03 I think they have to re-write their FAQ after releasing the new patch: please cancel your subscription if you are a freelancer... only corps allowed... no solo-play anymore... I hope castor patch would come next year at christmas...damn ab = nerf mwd = nerf travel-time = nerf PK's = early christmas present, eh? q.e.d. ____________________ CEO Denial of Service NPC Mass Murderer \| Security Status 6.4
ranger charneda	Posted - 2003.12.15 06:29:00 - [114] great can't wait to see patch
Panzer Faust	Posted - 2003.12.15 09:58:00 - [115] Damnit, stop critisizing & wait! after the patch, ok, but now how can u judge something u havent even see? Even on chaos it's almost unplayable with the lag, and moreover we'll need to see it working on TQ, and if it doesnt work, they'll fix some things! be quiet, and wait! Damn u ppl are......... --- Proud Owner of a Navy Issue Raven.
Doctor Angry	Posted - 2003.12.15 10:08:00 - [116] It's been said above that this is going to make it harder for freelancers, and someone responded by saying "So what, this is a MMORPG". I'm sorry, but WHAT? The fact that this IS an MMORPG should mean that people have the freedom to BE a freelancer without fear of being penalised for not being in a hulking great corp. I'm personally in a corp, but that's besides the point. These changes have ruined what is potentially a fantastic game for people who want to play solo as a freelancer. Now, I say "solo" as a freelancer. Note that I did NOT say "solo" as in never speaks to anyone or joins in on anything. Just because someone is a freelancer does not mean to say that they are hermits. I know of at least four or five freelancers (although they may well not play anymore after this patch) who are perfectly capable and willing to speak and co-operate and play with other citizens of the galaxy. Anyway, I will also say that the PK'ers, griefers, Pirates and Gate Campers have been given the biggest christmas presents they could possibly wish for. The fact that you have to be within 2.5k of a gate to jump, coupled with the fact that AB's/MWD's are now based on ship mass, and that warp is now effected in direct correlation to a ships ability to accelerate to at least half speed before it can warp means that you can kiss goodbye to any indies or battleships you happen to have. If you are unfortunate enough to jump to a camped gate? Bubye...... Yes, you have a certain invulnerability time after jumping (and coming out of warp?), but there is no way that the invulnerability time will cover the time required for an Indy/BS to jump. Some of the other changes are great, nice job, but that particular one is foolish....... Doctor Angry *BSC CEO* Campbells Condensed : A small double strength fart which, when combined with air, can produce enough to feed a whole room
Pulsar	Posted - 2003.12.15 10:12:00 - [117] Just a quick question. Those BP raffles, what happens after the first one? Do research points all get wiped again and we all scramble for the next 'draw'? Is a certain amount subtracted from the winning player/corp? Will the draws be announced prior to the event? What will be the frequency of the draws? When is the first draw expected?
Fausto	Posted - 2003.12.15 10:31:00 - [118] Quote: Just a quick question. Those BP raffles, what happens after the first one? Do research points all get wiped again and we all scramble for the next 'draw'? Is a certain amount subtracted from the winning player/corp? Will the draws be announced prior to the event? What will be the frequency of the draws? When is the first draw expected? Pulsar, bless you You couldn't have asked better questions. I hope they get answered. ______ <brainpodder>
Kitsune	Posted - 2003.12.15 11:15:00 - [119] and uh... isn't it the big megacorps that are ebaying stuff that is causing ccp so much supposed grief anyways? I hope this isn't a present for pk'ers and megacorps while the hard workin' pilots of decent skill get the bad end of space travel yet again? -Kitsune - CEO of the biggest lil' MegaCorp in the galaxy... max members ever online in corp channel <10 Watch me put a jump drive on an Rifter!
deathbyfire	Posted - 2003.12.15 11:40:00 - [120] this patch is goign to be great so long has fa been bugged buy pirates that come and kill a few indies and then run away when we retaliate and we can never catch them because they run so fast and they all have insta jumps this will not make it easier for player pirates as they will also be effected buy the gate limatations when they run so stop your *****ing and deal with the changes and if something goes horably wrong then it will be fixxed like it always is. oh and if you are afraid to lose a indie then you shouldn't be in 0.0 space in the first place. i myself am on my 20th indie for getting cauhgt by npc pirates while hauling on corp opps. i for one am looking forward to this patch and so is most of my corp ------------------------------- Evolve and adapt or die. The choice is yours to make and no one elses. "Your current safe bounries were once unsafe frontiers"-unknown "Stupid people, can't live with them, and can't kill them because there would only be 1000 people left to play eve."-Me :D

Estios	Posted - 2003.12.15 12:56:00 - [121] @EIGHT - Thanks a lot, nice summary To all you people whining 'Im going to quit' before even giving the patch a week. Well grow up and if not ....Can I have your stuff. FACT - Patch makes PVP more strategic and gives all you newer players effective roles. Jump in point Lag camps have for long been the biggest killer and lamest tactic. Unfortunately they were needed to ever get a kill. These have been abolished yet all of you who dont like PVP fail to mention this in your posts ? FACT - 0.0 Space is lawless and dangerous. Most of the whines I see here are from Indy pilots complaining they can no longer single handedly make millions per hour in 0.0 space. Damn right they shouldnt be able to jump in a 300k vessel and travel round the badlands. Hire an escort or take those risks. FACT - Not everyone who camps gates is to be referred to as 'Pirate'. Every mention of gate camping I see goes hand in hand with the word Pirate. There are many legitimate honourable corps in 0.0 space who have worked damn hard to find an area of space or join and alliance. Now they can perhaps successfully defend their territory without the rediculous insta jumps and JIP Lag camps. This again is a GOOD THING. FACT - Travel time is slightly increased. This is where I do have to agree with all the negative posts. CCP no one likes travelling. Give it a week with 3au warps vs time taken to get to gates and then re-access please. Extended travel WILL cause issues with player base I assure you. Seriously people, I have only picked out 4 aspects of the patch which most of you seem somehow hell bent on flaming and to me it seems no where near as bad as you make out ?? New skills, items, standings, market functions are all coming in. I say kudos to CCP. They may not be perfect by any stretch of the imagination but trying to cater to such a broad spectrum of player interests is HARD. All of you who say Pirating is now the only way to make money I can only pity your ignorance. Clearing a gate/trade route of unwanted Pirates has NEVER BEEN EASIER than after this patch. So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Wylaf Umberg	Posted - 2003.12.15 15:22:00 - [122] Of course, time and experience will tell how the whole Castor patch will work out. Still, to me it seems that the patch primarily helps corporations, PvP-players and those who log on regularly and for long. I, for one, do not belong to any of this groups. What is in this patch which improves the lot of freelancers, those who do not want to join some corps immediately and those who really don't like fights but still like to move around? Seems to me that unless it becomes easier to get started -- even alone -- the game could eventually be only between giant corporations (cf. situation in real life). Would appreciate a serious reply since I so far have found nothing which would make my own game experience better.
Drujhad	Posted - 2003.12.15 15:25:00 - [123] With the 50% speed to go to warp, you have just made its rather silly to have warp inhibitors, except for the distance restriction webification is a much devestating mod , oponent cant warp, he is helpless , and he is dead. Not giving diversafication to mods to be installed to achieve different goals, will make it very agrivating to non-pirate chars. ie. why play the game if ya have little chance of getting away from pirates?
Eight	Posted - 2003.12.15 16:02:00 - [124] Edited by: Eight on 15/12/2003 16:13:19 Pulsar: Quote: Just a quick question. Those BP raffles, what happens after the first one? Do research points all get wiped again and we all scramble for the next 'draw'? Is a certain amount subtracted from the winning player/corp? Will the draws be announced prior to the event? What will be the frequency of the draws? When is the first draw expected? I've updated the section with a bit more information on this. Accepting a blueprint 'completes' your research project, and your Research Points will be at zero when you start a new one. Any project which is not awarded a blueprint in a given raffle continues accumulating RPs unaffected. As far as when the draws occur: There is no set interval. CCP can release a BP (or many of them) at any time. Your best clues will most likely come from the story line. ~ Eight
Eight	Posted - 2003.12.15 16:09:00 - [125] Edited by: Eight on 15/12/2003 16:09:41 Drujhad: Quote: With the 50% speed to go to warp, you have just made its rather silly to have warp inhibitors, except for the distance restriction webification is a much devestating mod , oponent cant warp, he is helpless , and he is dead. Not giving diversafication to mods to be installed to achieve different goals, will make it very agrivating to non-pirate chars. ie. why play the game if ya have little chance of getting away from pirates? Quoting myself from earlier in this thread, "It is perhaps worth noting that Stasis Webifiers and the like affect your max speed, so if you're reduced to 50m/s by a web, you need only reach 25m/s to enter warp." I've updated the main post with more information on this matter. ~ Eight
Estios	Posted - 2003.12.15 16:48:00 - [126] EIGHT , I have said my piece a little further up and generally happy about coming changes. I do not however agree with 'When you jump into a system you appear 12km from gate' ...so effectively you have to go 17.5km to get to jump and then another 8km at other side before you can warp. This is VERY BAD in my opinion. Traders etc can choose to warp to 30km of a gate they want to go through and check if its camped and still warp away as not inside bubble but they are scrwed when they appear at other end. I Honestly cannot see your logic in making people trapped on the other side ??? This is one point I really think could break the camels back So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.*
QSquared	Posted - 2003.12.15 17:18:00 - [127] Quote: EIGHT , I have said my piece a little further up and generally happy about coming changes. I do not however agree with 'When you jump into a system you appear 12km from gate' ...so effectively you have to go 17.5km to get to jump and then another 8km at other side before you can warp. This is VERY BAD in my opinion. Traders etc can choose to warp to 30km of a gate they want to go through and check if its camped and still warp away as not inside bubble but they are scr*wed when they appear at other end. I Honestly cannot see your logic in making people trapped on the other side ??? This is one point I really think could break the camels back Exactly. I don't f'ing get it. maybe because I'm mainly a free-lancer, sure I'm in a corp, but we don't play together and there are only a hand full of members, lately i'm the only one who is ever on, join my corp of one. :-p So I'm probably going to go back to freelancing entirely, since basiclaly thats already what I'm doing even though I get a nic elittle corp tag on all my stuff this way. heh. ^^ But yeah, seems like we'll be trapped on jump-in now by default, and terribly screwed if we're using autopilot, because if we aren't we have 1 minute cover-time but if we are we begin moving instantly.... I liek the being able to jump in further away to check a gate thing and see if we want to make a run for it. but between GC's (Gate Campers) being able to deploy warp disruption fields and the automatic in-abiulity to warp for 8k after jumping in... UGH! even if there are no GCs w/ the lack of ABs helping like they used to Travel time will be immence! :-( So f'ing sad!!!! it already takes forever to get anywhere, and my LII agent is already very fond of trying to get me killed. blah. Shoudl I just join FFXI? everyone seems to be doing that these days. ~Q ~Q
Nomi Asterrn	Posted - 2003.12.15 17:43:00 - [128] Eight ... Alot of this is beyond me in technical terms but I have to say that the information and the "debate" aspect of this thread is great. I know you seem to be getting flamed but you seem to understand that players want consultation and respsonses to the more constructive posts..... U at least have given information....Thanks for that. THE WEAK CAUSE MORE HARM THAN THE STRONG
Regulas	Posted - 2003.12.15 18:00:00 - [129] Edited by: Regulas on 15/12/2003 18:00:54 I`m not sure if anyone else noticed but you dont really have to do well ANY agent missions to get reaserch bps. FACTIONS people. With the new system if you HUNT PIRATES and get a high faction rating (say an exagerated 10) then you can straight away get a lvl 4+ rated agent and imedetly get top reaserch agents (you still need the reaserch skills first though). So basiclly they are NOT `blackmailing`us to do agent missions just to get reaserch agaents. Just incase you havnt notcised
Eight	Posted - 2003.12.15 18:19:00 - [130] Estios, QSquared: The "warp disruption field" (previously at all non-empire gates) has been removed. When you jump into a system you can warp immediately to the next gate, or wherever you choose. The main post already reflects these changes, with links to Hellmar's thread on the matter. ~ Eight

nono	Posted - 2003.12.15 18:44:00 - [131] Quote: Edited by: Regulas on 15/12/2003 18:00:54 I`m not sure if anyone else noticed but you dont really have to do well ANY agent missions to get reaserch bps. FACTIONS people. With the new system if you HUNT PIRATES and get a high faction rating (say an exagerated 10) then you can straight away get a lvl 4+ rated agent and imedetly get top reaserch agents (you still need the reaserch skills first though). So basiclly they are NOT `blackmailing`us to do agent missions just to get reaserch agaents. Just incase you havnt notcised I think you had better go back to EVE Patch study school. You obviously skipped about 90% of the class.
Kaylon Syi	Posted - 2003.12.15 20:22:00 - [132] Quote: Edited by: Regulas on 15/12/2003 18:00:54 I`m not sure if anyone else noticed but you dont really have to do well ANY agent missions to get reaserch bps. FACTIONS people. With the new system if you HUNT PIRATES and get a high faction rating (say an exagerated 10) then you can straight away get a lvl 4+ rated agent and imedetly get top reaserch agents (you still need the reaserch skills first though). So basiclly they are NOT `blackmailing`us to do agent missions just to get reaserch agaents. Just incase you havnt notcised Um... Faction Standing ( for the 4 races ) comes from doing agent missions for a particular race. Security level comes from pirate hunting. Atleast thats how I understand it. Also, your standing within a corp will help you; thus, more missions. Hey I'm not complaining but I don't think NPC hunting will help you gain Faction standing ... in fact will make you loose if for the nonRace Factions, such as Serpentis and Sansha's Nation. Or... atleast thats how I understand it. Correct me if I am wrong.
Cardassius	Posted - 2003.12.15 21:19:00 - [133] Edited by: Cardassius on 16/12/2003 08:15:23 Maybe fix insurance on ships? Because when a corpmate insures my ship I can't see it is insured? ASCI Recruiting!
Ravenal	Posted - 2003.12.16 08:41:00 - [134] Quote: Sec rating and pirate corp standing will only be affected by the 'largest' pirate you kill in each 10 minutes of pirate combat. Pirate kills of a given type of pirate will only decrease your standing with that pirate faction to a certain point. To progress farther you must kill harder pirates. (delayed) q: if your sec rating is only affected every 10 minutes of "killing" npc's and then only by the larges one of them dont your npc faction standings abide by the same rules? that is your, for example, angel cartel faction standing will only drop by certain amount every ten minutes - also calculated by the biggest pirate you kill. ...new sig coming up Ravenal - Fate is what you make of it.
Regulas	Posted - 2003.12.16 14:14:00 - [135] Um yes sec and faction ratigns are diffrent. But killing rats affects BOTH. Notice how if you constintaly kill say the angel cartel how not ony does youre sec rating go up but youre FACTION rating with the cartel goes down and youre rating with any enemys of the cartel will go slightly up. Or howabout if i attack an amarr convoy sure i lose sec rating but i also lose alota faction rating with the amarr empire aswell, it dosent tell you these changes however the only way to see them is to check it youre self (and thats prob cuase youd have half a dozen widows pop up at every kill instead of just one)
Malena	Posted - 2003.12.16 14:36:00 - [136] I am told, and have been unable to confirm or deny the reports, that ALL expanders will be nerfed with Castor. I hope and pray this is not the case. Even with the changes that are going in to the indies, this would really suck. I can honestly say nothing would tempt me more to leave EVE considering the amount of money I have spent on my expanders. Don't nerf them all...hell, at least with ABs and MWDS you are having the rare ones become the 10 and 100 MN ones. Seriously, I like the direction the majority of the patch is taking, and if the anti-gate and jump in point works as advertised, that will be fantastic, but travel is already going to be harder, why force more trips because of nerfed expanders. You think the little guy will be able to afford the tech 2 expanders? Yea, right. It has taken me since day one to get the 27s I have. And knowing all this, I cannot in good conscience sell them to some other unsuspecting fool. Don't nerf them.
Ahriman	Posted - 2003.12.16 16:05:00 - [137] Quote: Way to go! hey dudes!
Ralph Cooper	Posted - 2003.12.16 16:36:00 - [138] from first point of view it seems like castor is including loads of improvements for eve. I was considering to quit eve but after having read about this huge patch i definately want to stay with eve for a bit longer I hope the system used with the new refining skills will be copied to production too. makes no sense that a noob with basic industy skills can build a bs in theory.... But so far development looks good to me
Eight	Posted - 2003.12.16 16:39:00 - [139] Malena: The rumors about the cargo expander nerf were prompted by an error in their stats on Chaos. It has been resolved and there should be no change to them with the introduction of Castor. ~ Eight
Scuzz	Posted - 2003.12.16 16:42:00 - [140] Looks like I will turn the game off until Castor has stopped or been changed. Eve will become the game of pirate corps. No one will mine outside of a 3 warp system and Pirates are the best thing going now! Eight are you a wanna be pirate? The warp disrupters are a good idea but how about this. ROAMING POLICE!!!!! You wanna be a pirate then take a chance with roaming police in B.S.'s Let them get a taste of there own medicine.

Beldaws	Posted - 2003.12.16 16:52:00 - [141] So does this mean that I can create an alt with very little cash and have that alt attempt to buy all of my competitors goods on the market? My competitor's sell orders will be cancelled and I'll be able to put my items for sale on the market and be the only supplier!! Oh I'm sure this won't be abused now that the market is first in first out! Might want to rethink this one!!!!! "If you place a sell order by selecting 'sell now' and the buyer has insufficient funds, your order will be cancelled and the goods returned to your hangar."
Eight	Posted - 2003.12.17 01:04:00 - [142] Quote: So does this mean that I can create an alt with very little cash and have that alt attempt to buy all of my competitors goods on the market? My competitor's sell orders will be cancelled and I'll be able to put my items for sale on the market and be the only supplier!! Oh I'm sure this won't be abused now that the market is first in first out! Might want to rethink this one!!!!! "If you place a sell order by selecting 'sell now' and the buyer has insufficient funds, your order will be cancelled and the goods returned to your hangar." Quoting the main post, "If you use 'place order' your sell order will not be cancelled if it matches a buy order with insufficient funds." ~ Eight
Torm Yvette	Posted - 2003.12.17 04:45:00 - [143] Hmmm...looks like I may be riding a fast frigate around for a bit until I am acclimated to the changes and the kinks are worked out. "May the tides of war always crash upon your enemy's shore."
Daniel Jackson	Posted - 2003.12.17 06:55:00 - [144] well in maryland i have not been able to get on ever since the patch Caldari will once again rise above the gallente and take back Caldari prime! Image done by Denrace
Vix3n	Posted - 2003.12.17 10:00:00 - [145] umm was this bug tested ? agents do not note when you complete your mission... ? - ive sent in full bug report * log
Lady Galadriel	Posted - 2003.12.17 10:02:00 - [146] umm Aligning for warp no longer breaks target locks-- er .. but you cant fire back - er...
Ariadne Foristal	Posted - 2003.12.17 12:11:00 - [147] Edited by: Ariadne Foristal on 17/12/2003 12:15:52 Surely giving the player a choice between PVP or not would make more sense. Thus the player could play a peaceful existence away from Players camping or pod killing someone in a Velator(me)just for fun. Those who wish to play PVP would have the choice and would be doing so against like minded individuals. NPC ships would remain a threat to all players otherwise there would be no risk at all but would reduce the pod killing frustration. Just a thought.
Ariadne Forrestal	Posted - 2003.12.17 12:16:00 - [148] Quote: Edited by: Ariadne Foristal on 17/12/2003 12:15:52 Surely giving the player a choice between PVP or not would make more sense. Thus the player could play a peaceful existence away from Players camping or pod killing someone in a Velator(me)just for fun. Those who wish to play PVP would have the choice and would be doing so against like minded individuals. NPC ships would remain a threat to all players otherwise there would be no risk at all but would reduce the pod killing frustration. Just a thought. 'There is infinite hope, but not for man.'
RagaDude	Posted - 2003.12.17 13:29:00 - [149] Sigh, CCP and Bug test very rarely appear in the same sentance.....
vixit	Posted - 2003.12.17 16:03:00 - [150] Two words: I LIKE! Cu in EvE ps: realy realy good!

Joeh	Posted - 2003.12.17 16:09:00 - [151] Well done on making eve more realistic. Not only is omber now not avaliable where all my cans are... i would have to go to the neighbouring system to get them. And when your blackbird gets destroyed in 25 seconds while warping out, by 8 npc's including serpentis soldiers who dewarp 3km off your ship, its not really worth going there, is it? I wasn't going for a solo mining run in 0.0 space, just looking to get some simple omber in 0.4 system. Why is it that all the minerals can now only be found in lower security systems.... and those systems now have bands of npcs than can destroy an escaping cruiser in 25 seconds? If I had been stupid and lost my ship that way.... i wouldnt have been ***ed off and just would have bought another one. But when its like this it just leaves a sour taste in your mouth. 3 cruisers destroyed in 3 weeks... 2 due to bugs, and now this. rant over
Morfhman	Posted - 2003.12.17 18:09:00 - [152] Now the pach is out and i see som good things and some wery bad. But i like to talk about 1 thing that im not happy about that is no more solo mining for me. First i cant do mining in 0,4ss syst and lower becous of cruser rats. And also i some times have to truck all i mine my self and ther is the big problem. In number of times i could save my ass by puting a book mark to come close to contaner from warp becous like we all know indys cant proteckt them self from enemy fier and i was hoping to see that chance by castor pach but no.They had to make the closest warp to 20km away so by the time i reach contaner my indy is no more becous npc rats blown it up. Now what can i do? Im in a corp yes but they arent always online on the same time so the only thing i can do is stay docked till somone shows up to help me. i have traned to be a good miner and now i cant use that skill to mine for my self Ok i want to keep on playing but its no funn any more i dont see the profit if i need to buy backup whil trucking my ore to bace Well i hope they at ccp will give us solo miners the chance of warping to contaner as close as we can so we can keep our work whit out losing the trucks to npc rats. Plzzz give us back warping to contaner as close as we can:
Khar'du	Posted - 2003.12.18 19:26:00 - [153] OK, i got a bug for you ppl. Dunno if anyone saw it already but i cant find it so ill post it here as well. All my named cap rechargers (eutectic II, barton, name any) now show a recharge rate bonus of 10% only. The eutectic used to show 11.6% i think. So what's up with that ?
White Tiger	Posted - 2003.12.19 04:08:00 - [154] Kar'du...You are not the only one...It seems that almost all the "named" items have been reduced to basic levels...I have gobs of (formerly useless) items like partial and alpha hull mods that, before they bent over the Blackbird, I had planned on using but now they are all DEFINITELY useless. I asked someone on the Help channel why they skewered the Blackbird and their reason was because "the Blackbird is a Missile Boat"...WTF? I thought, according to the description at least, that the Blackbird was a COMBAT SUPPORT craft that avoided direct confrontation. Now it can't even get out of it's own way let alone outrun a pesky frigate or six... Now...Three of my corp members are talking about quiting because Omber and Kernite can only be found in 0.4 systems and lower. This would not have normally presented a problem to them except for the fact that Gate Camping has been Proven possible in these systems. With the AB and MWD "nerf" we do not have the speed to run a "blockade" manned by three Apocs at 50km from the gate, especially when the gates guns don't do squat when they fire at you...Oh well...I am gonna stick it out for a bit; I LIKED the patch until today but eye candy alone is not gonna keep people playing this game... White Tiger Founding Member and CEO of Tactical Advisory Group "The Only Easy Day was Yesterday."
Sebastian Cain	Posted - 2003.12.19 09:00:00 - [155] Since I'm one of the ones White Tiger is talking about, it shouldn't surprise anyone that I agree with him whole-heartedly. I'm sure some things were improved by the patch. Some of the visuals, the scanner display, the tabs on the ship control for cargo, drones, etc. However, all of that is minor. The aspects of the game that have taken a huge turn for the worse are major, and affect gameplay for each and every one of us who espouse a style of gameplay that does not involve camping on jumpgates with battleships and podding all comers. Fact: Access to 0.0 space, where the vast majority of rare-element rich ores can be found, is severely limited. These bottlenecks are almost always occupied by players who either extort a "toll" from people wanting to use the gate, or simply kill them and their ships. Until recently it was possible to use fast cruisers, such as the Blackbird and the Stabber, to run these "blockades", getting to the 11km jump threshold from the warp exit point before the gate campers could lock on and/or inflict enough damage to kill the ship. Now we've been dealt a double whammy. Not only has one of the most capable light cruiser designs been reduced in speed and maneuverability to the point where it's slower than some heavy cruisers, but the jump threshold for gates has been cut from 11km down to 2km. Even given that the lock times for large ships are supposed to have been increased significantly, that leaves players worse off than before. Not only do they have farther to travel, but they have to do it in a slower ship. Folks, it doesn't matter a damn' whether you increase the lock times for battleships, one cannot cross the 18km between the closest warp exit and the jump threshold in a gate fast enough to avoid getting killed without the tools that have been taken away from us by the patch. But that's not all. The overall reduction in system security ratings has allowed player-pirates to camp on gates that until recently were off-limits to them. Concord and the Navy won't respond, because the systems are now below 0.5 sec rating, and the AI defenses won't automatically engage the pirates either if they initiate aggressive action. So all that's been done is to make the game even less playable by limiting even more the mobility of individual players. Taken together with the increased risks involved in attempting to reach a "camped" gate with a down-rated cruiser, this is pretty much an invitation to commit virtual suicide every time you leave a system. But we can't just stick in our own systems, because we now have to run agent missions in order to keep our faction standing. And many of these agent missions take us through space that's now prime real-estate for gate-campers and battleship bullies. So now we have no choice but to get podded every time we undock, because the game itself will punish us if we don't take missions. And if we fail the mission for some reason we take a hit in our faction rating, so it's even more vital that we try and run the blockades at the jumpgates...except for that little problem that the only ships we have eft that will make it to the jumpgate fast enough blow (frigates) up if a battleship even looks at them and can't mount half the defensive countermeasures that a cruiser can...but the cruisers we used to use are now so slow that all the ECM/jamming in the world won't keep them from bring blown up. So to sum up: If I stay in-system and mine rocks, I lose because my faction standing and security rating bottom out. If I take agent missions or try to hunt like I used to I lose because I get podded while trying to make it to the jumpgate before a battleship gets a lock and drops a small planet on me. This is called a lose-lose situation. I stand to gain nothing by logging on, except the pleasure of chatting with my friends and the eye-candy of the visuals. I can chat elsewhere, and if I want visuals I can always download some Hubble images and post them to my desktop...or have a print shop do them up in poster size for my walls. In the mean time I'm paying money for all this. Not much, mind you, but it's still money I've worked hard for. Sorry CCP...you created something in EVE that had huge potential and promise, but unless you correct some of the glaring mistakes you've includen in your latest "upgrade", I've got better things to spend my time and money on. You have until Jan 1 2004 to address this issue. After that I will close my account and cancel my subscription. Not without a good deal of regrets, mind you...I've put a lot of time into Sebastian Cain, and I've been on EVE from the time it hit the shelves. But I'm getting the feeling that you folks at CCP aren't interested in what the players are saying. This patch is proof of that. - Sebastian Cain founding member, Tactical Advisory Group on EVE
Ceribus	Posted - 2003.12.19 09:48:00 - [156] well i would have to say that as a resercher in eve im not at all impressed with the so called reserch upgrades. i have had this game for like 4 or 5 months now and i set my guy up as a resercher . i was very excited by the upcoming patch but no one informed me till a short time until the patch was suppost to come out that once again everything that is worth having or needed for a resercher was going to be put out by the stupid agents. i mean come on guys...you cant use the agents to put out everything because some of us dont have the time to spend half the month to get your agent standings up to whatever is needed to just get the skills to use a new kind of agent. most of my friends have already stopped playing eve and if i cant play my char like he was made to do then i see no reason to keep playing. really who has time to spend another few months to get another decent char. you guys should have thought of a better way to distibute the new items so it wasnt just for a certin class of people...the agent mongers...or at least make it possiable for someone who has maxed science skills to get the science stuff.
Vordicae	Posted - 2003.12.19 18:55:00 - [157] anyone else having the issue where you swap between ships but keep getting error messages every attempt.. the same when you are trying to undock ? makes fitting and swappping ships from Indy to miner to fighter really difficult and Sloooow when the new harder rats are beating your mate up in the roid fields ----------------------------------------------------- In space .. no-one can hear you munching crisps in the back seat of your Hauler ! ----------------------------------------------------- Show me the money
Sebastian Cain	Posted - 2003.12.19 23:48:00 - [158] One thing that was brought up in a discussion on another forum by some friends of mine: With the new time-sensitive faction standings and the requirement that players constantly work to maintain or improve those standings, CCP has essentially sidelined the part-time "casual" player. Unless you are able to devote a good portion - several hours - every single day to playing EVE and running missions, there is simply no way to maintain your faction standings, let alone improve them. Your character will be marginalised and rendered ineffective because his standings are dropping faster than you can build them up. Essentially what CCP is saying, intentionally or unintentionally, is that unless you are willing to play EVE full-time, they're not interested in your contributions. I have a job that keeps me out in the field ten or more hours a day. When I get home (usually at some decidedly un-blessed hour) I may have time for an hour or two of EVE, but only if I blow off household chores and other neccessary aspects of my life. My hardcore (if you can call it that) EVE time is on my days off, and I cannot usually spend more than a day per week on the game even then. Before the patch I was able to maintain at least marginally decent faction and security ratings. Now I don't even bother, since the time needed to maintain or even improve those ratings would require me to quit my job and devote myself to playing EVE full-time. There's simply no choice here, people. A game, any game, is not worth that. I've worked hard and been through a lot to be able to do the work I do now. The privilege and responsibility that comes with that work is worth more than EVE ever will be. While the game was an entertaining casual pass-time I could play it. But make no mistake, CCP, as promising and entertaining as this game is, it's not my life. I really hope someone from CCP is reading this. There have been many valid points brought up in this thread that need to be addressed immediately if EVE is to survive as a serious contender in the MMORPG field. If they are not addressed, then EVE will die. Period. Without the massive server network to support it, which will not be made available if EVE falls out of the mainstream, there simply will not be an EVE. And that would be a shame, and a disservice to all the players who have devoted their time to entering the universe of EVE and trying to make something of it. -Sebastian Cain Founding member, Tactical Advisory Group on EVE
Street	Posted - 2003.12.21 09:38:00 - [159] 1. I defy anyone to name one thing you absolutely cannot do without doing agent missions.... You can research with out doing missions or having a good standing (your skills are the biggest factor).... you can get BPs without researching (buy them).... You can still mine - Scordite in secure space is 80% as profitable as Omber.... Agent missions provide a reward. If your complaining that you have to do missions to get the reward, that implies you'd rather someone just hand it to you on a silver platter. 2. I've had no problems with traveling speed. After adjusting my configuration, I travel at about 90 seconds a jump - even with an indy. An indy can fit multiple 1MN microwarps now. PS- Traveling is part of the game. It wouldn't be much of a game if we just teleported our ships from station to station, would it? 3. It is alot more dangerous in low sec space now.... so what? Yes, not everyone wants to fight NPCs or PCs, but they have the choice of staying in safe space. If you want to be safe and secure, just assume the universe ends at .5 space. It's a risk/reward tradeoff. Is it so wrong that the ones who take the risk make a little more cash? 4. For you trader types.... if travel is, as you say, more difficult, then market prices will eventually reflect that.... if it's not worth it, no one will do it; price imbalances will rise; enventually, the imbalance will create enough profit for it to be worth it again. 5. The flexible NPC demand and the market decimal system will create alot more demand for hauling and distributing minerals than we saw before.... you market players should be drooling. EVE is envisioned as a game to be played for years (only 7 more years to max out my character!). That wasn't going to happen in the pre-Castor system. The major complaints were 1) The Market is broken (ie everything was too easy to make/get/do resulting in deflation) and 2) There's not enough depth (ie it was too quick and simple to accomplish things). 3) Corps aren't useful enough (ie no big advantages over adhoc groups). I think Castor addresses all 3 issues well. <Venting Complete> Street Ad Astra
White Tiger	Posted - 2003.12.21 12:42:00 - [160] Quote: 1. I defy anyone to name one thing you absolutely cannot do without doing agent missions.... You can research with out doing missions or having a good standing (your skills are the biggest factor).... you can get BPs without researching (buy them).... You can still mine - Scordite in secure space is 80% as profitable as Omber.... Agent missions provide a reward. If your complaining that you have to do missions to get the reward, that implies you'd rather someone just hand it to you on a silver platter. Silver platter? Hardly. But in the past our hard work was profitable. Sure Scordite may very well be 80% as profitable as Omber (check your figures, I think you are wrong) but the NPC market is not buying at the same levels as the Pre-castor market. If we choose to sell to PCs then that means we have to work twice as hard because the PCs only pay half as much. Without the income your argument that we can just buy the BPs is moot. Quote: 2. I've had no problems with traveling speed. After adjusting my configuration, I travel at about 90 seconds a jump - even with an indy. An indy can fit multiple 1MN microwarps now. PS- Traveling is part of the game. It wouldn't be much of a game if we just teleported our ships from station to station, would it? True...Without the travel it wouldn't be much of a game but at the moment you are enjoying a grace period with all those MWDs mounted on your Indy. Currently the "Gate Guards" are absent from the 0.7-0.1 systems, but when they come back they will come back with a vengeance. Missiles and MWDs now play a much bigger part in the NPC pirate TO&E and 90 seconds is an awfully long time... Quote: 3. It is alot more dangerous in low sec space now.... so what? Yes, not everyone wants to fight NPCs or PCs, but they have the choice of staying in safe space. If you want to be safe and secure, just assume the universe ends at .5 space. It's a risk/reward tradeoff. Is it so wrong that the ones who take the risk make a little more cash? No it is not wrong for the ones to take the risk to make a little more cash. What IS wrong is to limit the number of people who can take the risk. Pre-Castor my seven man corp was able to arrange mining expeditions in 0.0 and have a reasonable level of success at it; Enough to for us to maintain our WEPSLocker, ships, etc. Now Post-Castor we do not have that opportunity. The NPCs are so strong that even Large Battelship only expeditions are having difficulty just breaking even let alone making a profit. Many of the Big Corps (40 players +) have moved into Empire space and are mining the minerals that you say we should go after. As my partner stated it is pretty much a lose-lose situation for the small corps/Individuals who play this game on a casual basis. Quote: 4. For you trader types.... if travel is, as you say, more difficult, then market prices will eventually reflect that.... if it's not worth it, no one will do it; price imbalances will rise; enventually, the imbalance will create enough profit for it to be worth it again. 5. The flexible NPC demand and the market decimal system will create alot more demand for hauling and distributing minerals than we saw before.... you market players should be drooling. I already covered this but I will say it again. The NPC market does not buy at the same rate as it did pre-castor. The only thing the decimal system has done is allow the PC buyers to buy for fractions of an ISK instead of being "forced" to buy using whole numbers. Why buy Tritanium for 1 isk if you can get sellers to take your 1/2 isk offer price? Quote: EVE is envisioned as a game to be played for years (only 7 more years to max out my character!). That wasn't going to happen in the pre-Castor system. The major complaints were 1) The Market is broken (ie everything was too easy to make/get/do resulting in deflation) and 2) There's not enough depth (ie it was too quick and simple to accomplish things). 3) Corps aren't useful enough (ie no big advantages over adhoc groups). I think Castor addresses all 3 issues well. You are right...Eve is designed to be played for years but if the players no longer show up because of the extreme difficulty they now face, the game won't even last another year. White Tiger Founding Member and CEO of Tactical Advisory Group "The Only Easy Day was Yesterday."

Street	Posted - 2003.12.22 00:44:00 - [161] Some good points. Let me address each of them: 1. Mineral prices: As the price of nearly everything is based off mineral prices, if there is a widespread drop, it will eventually cause a widespread deflation - the cost of the things you want will drop as well. In the long-term, your buying power will should stay roughly the same. I'm not convinced there will be a collapse in mineral prices as there has not been a significant decline yet and volumes have been steady - in some places, I've seen small increases. BTW- Scordite has a book value of 43.7/m3. Omber has a book price of 56/m3. Since mining is based on volume/minute, you get 78% of the same value for Scordite as you would Omber - assuming Isogen is selling at book. 2. NPC Pirates: I concede your point about 0.0, though I've been okay with a lone Cruiser in 0.2. I did hear that the pirates are spawning in greater numbers than CCP wanted them to, so I think they just overshot and will balance it out. 3. BP Prices: As mentioned above, buying power should be consistent in the long-term. If no one is buying BPs because their income deflates, the costs will drop until supply meets demand. With the new research system, CCP can maintain control over BP prices by regulating the supply they release to the market. Street Ad Astra
White Tiger	Posted - 2003.12.22 17:40:00 - [162] Street... I don't know what the "book" values are for ore so the only thing I have to go on is the records I have kept while mining. To whit: Mining alone in the system we made our "Home" (using a Battleship with 6 miner 2s) I could mine enough scordite to provide 3mil units of Pyerite. At a market value of 4isk per unit that would give me 12mil isk. In the same time frame, and by carefully farming the rocks, I could mine enough Omber and kernite to provide 500K of Isogen. At full market value that gave me 32mil isk. White Tiger Founding Member and CEO of Tactical Advisory Group "The Only Easy Day was Yesterday."


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