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Manus Stuprare
Dominus Nihil EVE
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Posted - 2007.02.16 16:42:00 -
[1]
This is an idea I've been toying with for a while, particularly with recent discussions about nos being overpowered. If it works out, this could be a way of addressing problems with two different modules at once.
1. Smartbombs
Generally speaking I think it's fair to say smartbombs in their current state aren't all that useful. Yes, there are a few niche situations where they come in handy, but on the whole it's unusual to see them as part of a general setup. The short range of even the BS-sized smartbombs greatly limits their usefulness.
2. Nosferatu
If anything nos suffers from the opposite problem - it's become the automatic choice for a spare utility slot, and setups using lots of nos are perhaps overpowered. Existing counters include more nos (if you can't beat em, join em) and cap boosters (difficult to fit on many ships esp. Amarr). Talk of an upcoming nerf is in the air..
I propose that the following effects be added to smartbombs:
If a ship which is being nossed activates a smartbomb, the nossing ship takes damage from that smartbomb regardless of range. Furthermore, the nos module(s) is(are) rendered inoperable for the length of one cycle.
From a (pseudo) scientific point of view this makes perfect sense - energy vampires suck up energy, smartbombs release energy, therefore this gets sucked up along with cap. Of course the tremendous jolt of energy overloads the nos modules themselves, and they need time to recover.
From a gameplay point of view this would have multiple effects:
1. Nos would no longer be a risk-free choice - as things stand, nos is really a win-win module; it harms your opponent while benefiting you. The only drawback it has is that it occupies a slot that might otherwise contain weaponry.
2. Smartbombs get a much-needed boost - finally EVE's forgotten weapon system gets its chance to shine!
3. Fights become more tactical - do you hit him with all your nos at once, or just one to test the water first? Maybe he's bluffing.. Do you use your cap to tank, or zap him with the smartbomb? Would you gain back in a nos-free cycle more cap than it cost to fire the smartbomb?
Obviously there are further details which need to be worked out. One reservation I have is that the nos/drone combo would be doubly affected if more people fitted smartbombs as a result of this change. There's bound to be other stuff I haven't thought of.
Comments?
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Kalidann
Caldari NCN Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.16 16:46:00 -
[2]
you know, this is actually a pretty good idea, if the amount of damage recieved is based on the number of nos on the target, wait til that nosdomi has all of his sucking an pop him good...
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Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.16 16:48:00 -
[3]
Nice, kind of like overloading the nossing ship. I like it. --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!! |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.02.16 16:56:00 -
[4]
Simple, elegant, effective. Brilliant idea ! _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Scordite
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Posted - 2007.02.16 17:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Manus Stuprare There's bound to be other stuff I haven't thought of.
Capital ships, especially the bigger ones, would become even harder to kill.
On a side note, it would probably need to be so that you'd need smartbomb of same or larger size than the nos affecting you to cause the nos to shut down for a cycle, otherwise you get ceptors with micro smartbombs shutting down battleships and so on.
Anyways, interesting idea, but with some issues needing work.
----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead. |
WredStorm
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.02.16 17:18:00 -
[6]
I was under the impression that one of the key methods for (theoretically) taking down a Titan was to NOS the hell out of them so that they can't jump away while you pile on the damage? If that is the case, wouldn't such a use for smartbombs effectively remove the one potential method people would otherwise have for preventing the Titan (or motherships I think) from being able to cyno-jump away?
Wred
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Captain Crimson
Caldari CoreTech Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.16 17:23:00 -
[7]
If energy neuts aren't affected by this, I'm happy. Great idea!
Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
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Kalidann
Caldari NCN Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.16 17:24:00 -
[8]
neuts shouldn't be effected by it, therefore, you can STILL neut the titan to prevent it from getting away, you just can't nos it without risk.
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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.02.16 17:27:00 -
[9]
1) let it not effect neutralisers 2) let it only effect nos of equal or smaller size
and im up for it, 100%
Suicide is bad, hmkay? (clickety clickety) |
Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.02.16 18:21:00 -
[10]
Its a really interesting idea, but but I can't see it being useful for empire wars. I'm picturing noobcorp alts being used to get people ganked by the cops.
There's also the issue of smartbombs refusing to function within 5km of the gate/station.
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Karma Coma
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Posted - 2007.02.16 18:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Scordite
Originally by: Manus Stuprare There's bound to be other stuff I haven't thought of.
Capital ships, especially the bigger ones, would become even harder to kill.
On a side note, it would probably need to be so that you'd need smartbomb of same or larger size than the nos affecting you to cause the nos to shut down for a cycle, otherwise you get ceptors with micro smartbombs shutting down battleships and so on.
Anyways, interesting idea, but with some issues needing work.
Agreed, something would have to be done about capital ships and also the size effects... maybe make them percentage based? so a micro smart bomb would only have 0.15 percent chance to overwhelm a heavy nos?
I actually really like this idea! I hope the devs read this post.
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Nykolas
Amarr 7th Space Cavalry Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.16 18:55:00 -
[12]
This is really a nice idea and creative ! I hope Dev could check this and see if some tweeking could be done on Sisi and test something like this. Specially the concept of having a counter NOS without adding a new mod. P.S. Sry for typo, aint english Funny |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.02.16 19:01:00 -
[13]
I like smartbombs, and I dislike Nosferatu...I really really like this idea ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.02.16 19:12:00 -
[14]
I like this idea aswell, lets make smartbombs usefull. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Tisanta
Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
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Posted - 2007.02.16 19:12:00 -
[15]
THIS IDEA!!! is the solution to all eves problems!!!!
* gives the man a hug* ---
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Oscar Clay
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Posted - 2007.02.16 19:40:00 -
[16]
I had an idea a while back for a passive nos countermeasure module that would replace a certain percentage of drained energy with damage... electromagnetic, probably, or maybe thermal since that effects shield and armor tankers roughly equally.
The basic T1 module would have, say, a 30% rate of exchange. So if a vampire domi tries to nos you for 100 points of energy, he ends up getting 70 points of energy and 30 points of EM/Therm damage for his trouble. Nobody's going to blow up their own ship by mistake at that sort of damage level, but it does give you something to be cautious about if you fly a cookie cutter nos boat. For multiple antinos modules, apply an armor-hardener-type staking penalty.
Make it a Hislot module and you give people a new option for that spare utility slot. This would be an especially nice boon to small ships like assfrigs; instead of fitting a small nos that won't do diddly against a battleship, you've got the option to boobytrap your ship against his nosses for a substantial amount of damage.
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Tisanta
Amarr Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
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Posted - 2007.02.16 19:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Oscar Clay I had an idea a while back for a passive nos countermeasure module that would replace a certain percentage of drained energy with damage... electromagnetic, probably, or maybe thermal since that effects shield and armor tankers roughly equally.
The basic T1 module would have, say, a 30% rate of exchange. So if a vampire domi tries to nos you for 100 points of energy, he ends up getting 70 points of energy and 30 points of EM/Therm damage for his trouble. Nobody's going to blow up their own ship by mistake at that sort of damage level, but it does give you something to be cautious about if you fly a cookie cutter nos boat. For multiple antinos modules, apply an armor-hardener-type staking penalty.
Make it a Hislot module and you give people a new option for that spare utility slot. This would be an especially nice boon to small ships like assfrigs; instead of fitting a small nos that won't do diddly against a battleship, you've got the option to boobytrap your ship against his nosses for a substantial amount of damage.
did you say all that just for a hug?
* hugs the person* ---
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Aversin
Gallente JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2007.02.16 20:01:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Aversin on 16/02/2007 20:00:55 I like this idea, it is made of god and win.
*edit
Perhaps to make this useful in empire when you activate a smartbomb if you are being targeted by a Nosferatu it has this effect instead of the normal area of effect, soft of focusing it into the ship(s).
Another option is to possibly make smartbombs have two modes or methods of activation, one which does the normal AOE effect, and one which has the Nosferatu effect.
Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.02.16 20:03:00 -
[19]
Absolutly LOVE the idea, great job poster.
I agree with the energy neuts, they dont have a benefit to the ship using them and they only disrupt energy in the target ship (they do not suck any back) so they should not be affect by a smartbomb.
Manus I STRONGLY suggest that you copy your first post and make one in the features and ideas section. Also add in the part about not affecting energy neuts before you do that.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Trade Consortium
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Posted - 2007.02.16 20:15:00 -
[20]
EPIC WIN. And yeah, definitely shouldn't effect neutralizers. This may even make neuts more useful by making them a risk-free option.
In fact... Yeah, this is one of the best fixes I've seen NOS retains its usefulness for chasing off small ships, it makes an underused utility slot module more useful, and it makes nos less reliable.
I'd still hope for a general nos-nerf because I don't feel like fitting smartbombs to all of my ships, but this definitely makes sense. __________________________________ Combat > Your Mega Pulse Laser II perfectly strikes Ridge Racer's weak point, wrecking for 599 points of massive damage |
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Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
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Posted - 2007.02.16 20:40:00 -
[21]
I thinks its a good idea Devs should consider. So this should move to the sugguestions forum.
Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!!
Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0. |
Tayvar Tal
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2007.02.16 20:51:00 -
[22]
How about smartbombs cause a negative capacitor recharge rate relative to size of the unit and whether its named or tech 2. Then a squadron of interceptors could drain a big ship but one alone would be ineffective.
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pigofparadise
Minmatar S-44 Tre Kroner
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Posted - 2007.02.16 21:00:00 -
[23]
A smartbomb could do 'overloading damage' to emulate large nosses not being shut down by micros. This damage should not be translated into real damage, nor should it stay until the next cycle when overloading a nos (a large SB wont shut down a small nos forever). However a destroyer fitted with multiple SBs would be able to shut down larger noses.
All in all, this idea is made of win.
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Almarez
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Posted - 2007.02.16 21:13:00 -
[24]
What happens to a ship like the Curse or Pilgrim then?
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.16 21:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Almarez What happens to a ship like the Curse or Pilgrim then?
That will be main problem, give them immunity for this effect ?
Also as nos domi pilot, i like this idea, if u bring big smartbomb on ur bs, u will *****me and thats ok ^^ -------- New drone ui
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Manus Stuprare
Dominus Nihil EVE
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Posted - 2007.02.16 21:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Christopher Dalran Manus I STRONGLY suggest that you copy your first post and make one in the features and ideas section. Also add in the part about not affecting energy neuts before you do that.
Good idea, done.
Originally by: Almarez What happens to a ship like the Curse or Pilgrim then?
Yeah this is a concern, they're actually two of my favourite ships so I don't want to see them messed up.
Maybe a skilled Curse pilot could deal with it to some extent - e.g. applying one nos, waiting for smartbomb, applying the rest of the nos. Smartbombs use a lot of cap anyway, so you could perhaps still kill the enemy's cap without getting hit too many times, esp. with neuts. Of course multiple smartbombs would make things trickier.
Pilgrim would be harder hit though, not sure how to get around this..
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Black Torment
Caldari Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.02.16 22:15:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Black Torment on 16/02/2007 22:12:05 Am I the only one that sees this as a really bad idea?
All you're gonna do is make a smartbomb the new mandatory fit, rendering any nossing ships completely useless. Hell, you could even fit a micro smartbomb and save loads of power.
People having to fit nos to counter nos and other capacitor problems is better than everyone and their mother fitting a single smartbomb and laughing. Even if you talk of staggering nos its no different than fitting nos to counter nos. In fact its worse, since you spend energy to activate the smartbomb.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2007.02.16 22:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sokratesz 1) let it not effect neutralisers 2) let it only effect nos of equal or smaller size
and im up for it, 100%
This would give a huge boost to smaller ships, especially such as curse and pilgrim. I'd say the other way around. Large weapons simply do not hurt small ships as much as big. Besides smaller ships needs to be closer and is therefor allready more affected by the SB being in place at all.
Scenario 1. AF vs BS. Sokratesz: BS is using Large SB's, AF obviously small nos. the AF will need to be within(correct me if im wrong) around 6km's range, with a good nos. To be sure not being out of range, that is basicly 5km, wich just happens to be the range of a SB. The BS fires of one or two of their SB's, the AF will take double damage from them _and_ loose its tank due to the NOS being inactive. With my suggestion, he will still take SB damage, but just once and still have cap. Unless the BS yields both SB's and Noses, wich ofc will cripple the rest of his setup, but also will be penalized by the AF's SB if he has one, even if just slightly.
BS vs BS. Both uses Large everything, nothing is changed. Both takes damage from eachothers NOS and SB.
BS vs curse. Dilemma. BS would 1. Damage the curse for all Nosses it uses. 2. Eliminate the curse greatest offensive power with a single highslot(nothing to a domi really, a med SB is enough!) 3. Out nos the last of the curse possible tank and cap for speed.
All SBs will affect Nos, micro SB's will shut down the opponents nos for the duration of a same sized nos. The cycle times are much longer on a large nos then a small. A small smartbomb will shut down a large nos less then half a cycle. Not stacking the offline duration, but the damage. Note that the cap should always be drained, or the NOS would be rendered useless basicly. Also, I'd suggest upping the duration of SB's a tad, and increasing its damage. Alternativly, make it chance based. A Large SB does have a chance to remove a med nos for what would be 2 cycles, and deal massive damage to it, but usually wont. Also, the SB should deal damage to the NOS for the entire cycle. If a small SB manages to detonate three times within a 12s nos cycle, the nosser will take damage three times.
This would ask BS's to fit either Large SB's to effectivly counter other BS's or meds to effectivly remove medium noses. Large SB's will however still make use against close range frigs/nossing wolfpacks - with their normal function. Cruisers will be able to handle BS's somewhat well, removing a large portion of their nos and dealing good damage while doing so, but still not be immune to NOS.
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Mortuus
Minmatar Just-fun Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.16 23:01:00 -
[29]
Eh, I'm for just removing Nos, and giving ships that have a nos bonus a bonus to the cap use of neuts.
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
Franconis
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Posted - 2007.02.16 23:20:00 -
[30]
I'm all for a passive nos defense module, but a 30% damage return is laughable. Notice that NOS drains a very small amount of cap in relation to large turret damage. Getting hit with a SB while using NOS should be like getting hit with one or two large turrets, or possibly a torpedo. I suggest that damage returned from NOS suckiing on a ship using SBs should be about 200-300% of the amount of NOS drained, if not more.
That said, I think that this is the best solution to nosferatus and smartbombs that I've heard yet.
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