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Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:01:00 - [61] Originally by: Almarez Edited by: Almarez on 15/03/2007 15:27:38 Originally by: Capt Rob Edited by: Capt Rob on 14/03/2007 17:43:14 Edited by: Capt Rob on 14/03/2007 17:36:48 Originally by: Almarez Isn't this the way all Minmitar ships are setup. Split low and med slot layout? I don't know how many times I hear Tempest pilots say they love the dual shield/armor tank. I don't understand why but that is what I've heard. Why should the carrier be any different if that is the design philosophy of the race. Because of its cap etc, it cant tank well either way. which is a pretty big prob on a 1bil ship. Also its pg and cpu are rather low for either way you wanna tank. lets say you wanna shield tank, the thanatos has more cpu then the nidhoggur and its a armor tank only....And ofc the thanatos has more pg so it can armor tank better than the nidhoggur as well. I ask the question why bother getting a nidhoggur when everything it can do, another carrier can just do better. OFC except the nidhoggur gets a small% better duration on remote reps which is SUCH A USEFULL BONUS The cpu and powergrid may both be issues and that should be looked into if there are serious fitting problems but what I thought you were having issues with was about slot layout. My point is, each race has a design philosophy and the Minmitar one is a split between low and med slots, so why would this ship be any different? As for the cap issue, again Minmitar have smaller capacitors in general, which this ship seems to follow. Just because it is a bigger ship that shouldn't change. That being said, smaller than the other races ships doesn't mean it should be so small that the ship can't do anything. So if it really is killing you to run your mods then...oh wait, isn't that the problem with just about every laser boat. I think the problem is that as a Minmitar pilot you are not used to having cap problems, welcome to our world. (Sponsored by the Amarrian Federation of Disgruntled Laser Users - AFDLU) Your trying to turn this into a amarr/mimatar thing and that is not what this is about. It is one thing when the smaller ships such as the cruisers etc have spilt slot layouts, first of all because they can use manuverably and speed like most minmatar ships to help reduce damage as well as add a smaller tank and its not as bad. When you get to carriers where you are pretty much a hugh flying brick. It is ridiculos to have such a slot layout which pretty much screws you over both ways. Also, does the amarr carrier have major cap issues? no. So the idea of the fact amarr have big cap probs on their cap ships is not true. You cant compare the fact that the normal amarr ships can have cap probs if they dont have decent skills; but i got a news flash for ya, minmatar ships are hardpressed to just be as good as other races in pretty much any area with out very good skillz. The last paragraph does not rly relate to the topic but if your gona relate non-cap amarr ships cap issues to minmatar capital ship cap issues then there ya go.
Almarez	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:30:00 - [62] Originally by: Capt Rob Originally by: Almarez Edited by: Almarez on 15/03/2007 15:27:38 Originally by: Capt Rob Edited by: Capt Rob on 14/03/2007 17:43:14 Edited by: Capt Rob on 14/03/2007 17:36:48 Originally by: Almarez Isn't this the way all Minmitar ships are setup. Split low and med slot layout? I don't know how many times I hear Tempest pilots say they love the dual shield/armor tank. I don't understand why but that is what I've heard. Why should the carrier be any different if that is the design philosophy of the race. Because of its cap etc, it cant tank well either way. which is a pretty big prob on a 1bil ship. Also its pg and cpu are rather low for either way you wanna tank. lets say you wanna shield tank, the thanatos has more cpu then the nidhoggur and its a armor tank only....And ofc the thanatos has more pg so it can armor tank better than the nidhoggur as well. I ask the question why bother getting a nidhoggur when everything it can do, another carrier can just do better. OFC except the nidhoggur gets a small% better duration on remote reps which is SUCH A USEFULL BONUS The cpu and powergrid may both be issues and that should be looked into if there are serious fitting problems but what I thought you were having issues with was about slot layout. My point is, each race has a design philosophy and the Minmitar one is a split between low and med slots, so why would this ship be any different? As for the cap issue, again Minmitar have smaller capacitors in general, which this ship seems to follow. Just because it is a bigger ship that shouldn't change. That being said, smaller than the other races ships doesn't mean it should be so small that the ship can't do anything. So if it really is killing you to run your mods then...oh wait, isn't that the problem with just about every laser boat. I think the problem is that as a Minmitar pilot you are not used to having cap problems, welcome to our world. (Sponsored by the Amarrian Federation of Disgruntled Laser Users - AFDLU) Your trying to turn this into a amarr/mimatar thing and that is not what this is about. It is one thing when the smaller ships such as the cruisers etc have spilt slot layouts, first of all because they can use manuverably and speed like most minmatar ships to help reduce damage as well as add a smaller tank and its not as bad. When you get to carriers where you are pretty much a hugh flying brick. It is ridiculos to have such a slot layout which pretty much screws you over both ways. Also, does the amarr carrier have major cap issues? no. So the idea of the fact amarr have big cap probs on their cap ships is not true. You cant compare the fact that the normal amarr ships can have cap probs if they dont have decent skills; but i got a news flash for ya, minmatar ships are hardpressed to just be as good as other races in pretty much any area with out very good skillz. The last paragraph does not rly relate to the topic but if your gona relate non-cap amarr ships cap issues to minmatar capital ship cap issues then there ya go. I can appreciate what your saying about the carriers being flying bricks so the whole speed thing wouldn't apply here and so maybe the layout should favor one or the other form of tanking. Your comment about the Amarr carriers not having cap issues is because they are not laser boats. Talk to a Revelation pilot and ask about cap issues on that thing. A little bit off topic but laser boats have cap issues regardless of skill level, trust me on that one. Finally, Minmitar have some awesome ships, especially when you get into the T2 realm, although they do require some cross training, I do agree with that.
Xoduse Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:14:00 - [63] Apparently you aren't the only one that thinks the Nidhoggur needs a boost. Linkage LOL ---------------------
Jurushy SteelVipers YouWhat	Posted - 2007.03.15 19:45:00 - [64] the best bonus for minmatar carrier 1 turret slot per level so at level i get 5 XL autocannons on my nice ship ------ REVENGE IS A DISH BEST SERVED COLD Old Klingon prover
Tiuwaz Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:57:00 - [65] give it a bonus to jumprange instead and i am happy ;o ___________________________________
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.17 03:15:00 - [66] Originally by: Xoduse Apparently you aren't the only one that thinks the Nidhoggur needs a boost. Linkage LOL Love that flash, thx for linking it
Pesadel0 Vagabundos THE H0RDE	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:16:00 - [67] Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Jurushy i agree the carrier are over one year in the game TUXFORD prommised to take a look on the capital ships and all get 500% increase in HP but this is not enought the minmatar capships need to balance whit the others The minmatar carrier ond motherships needs it more than every other ship in this game TUXFORD IT IS TIME TO DO U WORK NOW! we wait long enough He is working on it!!! You must be patient, the Amarr were here first. No you weren't since RMR we said our carrier is a piece of ##$% ,i said that they would take another 3 years to fix it ,like they did to the phoon and it is getting there =). Never the less i trained for a nig not because i like the bonus ,but because i'am a hardcore minie and only fly minie but it is the worst carrier of them all . I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.19 01:13:00 - [68] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Almarez Originally by: Jurushy i agree the carrier are over one year in the game TUXFORD prommised to take a look on the capital ships and all get 500% increase in HP but this is not enought the minmatar capships need to balance whit the others The minmatar carrier ond motherships needs it more than every other ship in this game TUXFORD IT IS TIME TO DO U WORK NOW! we wait long enough He is working on it!!! You must be patient, the Amarr were here first. No you weren't since RMR we said our carrier is a piece of ##$% ,i said that they would take another 3 years to fix it ,like they did to the phoon and it is getting there =). Never the less i trained for a nig not because i like the bonus ,but because i'am a hardcore minie and only fly minie but it is the worst carrier of them all . Let us hope ccp realises that this aint some teir 1 bs and takes a large amount of training for what is atm relative crap compared to the others. Fix this broke ship
Scorched Evil The Silent Rage FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:06:00 - [69] im gonna give this one a bump... tux lets get some love on the nidhoggur buddy.
Ms Freak Amarr NCN Corp Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:21:00 - [70] Originally by: Virusuk fighter tracking 5% per level sounds good.. And lets have 5/5/6 slot layout :) pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease takes a breath pleasepleasepleaseplease
Waxau Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:22:00 - [71] Originally by: Ms Freak Originally by: Virusuk fighter tracking 5% per level sounds good.. And lets have 5/5/6 slot layout :) pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease takes a breath pleasepleasepleaseplease tbh i think the nid deserves new bonuses cos the current ones suck. Its generally known. However, i think 5% maybe a bit too much. The only downside of fighters IS the fact that they cant hit small/fast things. What about faster speed? Or smaller sig radius for fighters? Think out of the box people! wooo!
Dray Caldari Endgame.	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:50:00 - [72] Edited by: Dray on 19/03/2007 12:47:05 What i'd like to know is who decided on the bonus and then how did he pitch it to the rest and get it accepted, theres some presentation skills right there.... That said support isnt really an option, long locking time and the fact in a fair sized fleet fight means the first target will pop relatively quickly barring a captital ship, either way most hog pilots will be fitting drone control units, nos neuts or cloaks dosent really leave a lot of room for remote reps. Its just sh*te tbh compared to the others which really is the issue here. The others get much better and more useful bonus, theres 3 carriers in game with a very useful logistics role, and 1 very useful logistic ship with a poor carrier role. I guess it could be argued that sitting in a POS and assigning fighters dosent make much diff when it comes to bonus but I want to use it in a more aggressive and active role, atm with those bonus, its just a logistics ship to me.
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.19 22:15:00 - [73] Originally by: Dray Edited by: Dray on 19/03/2007 12:47:05 What i'd like to know is who decided on the bonus and then how did he pitch it to the rest and get it accepted, theres some presentation skills right there.... That said support isnt really an option, long locking time and the fact in a fair sized fleet fight means the first target will pop relatively quickly barring a captital ship, either way most hog pilots will be fitting drone control units, nos neuts or cloaks dosent really leave a lot of room for remote reps. Its just sh*te tbh compared to the others which really is the issue here. The others get much better and more useful bonus, theres 3 carriers in game with a very useful logistics role, and 1 very useful logistic ship with a poor carrier role. I guess it could be argued that sitting in a POS and assigning fighters dosent make much diff when it comes to bonus but I want to use it in a more aggressive and active role, atm with those bonus, its just a logistics ship to me. I agree, support is not a very viable option for this type of ship atm because if how it is setup. Also i do agree; i wanna see carriers in more aggressive roles, doing dmg and support, not just sitting in a pos/ss asigning fighters. I do know a good number of people who use their carrier agressively but also a large number who just sit, especially nidhoggur pilots because atm their carrier is useless compared to the other carriers.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos THE H0RDE	Posted - 2007.03.19 23:24:00 - [74] Originally by: Waxau Originally by: Ms Freak Originally by: Virusuk fighter tracking 5% per level sounds good.. And lets have 5/5/6 slot layout :) pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease takes a breath pleasepleasepleaseplease tbh i think the nid deserves new bonuses cos the current ones suck. Its generally known. However, i think 5% maybe a bit too much. The only downside of fighters IS the fact that they cant hit small/fast things. What about faster speed? Or smaller sig radius for fighters? Think out of the box people! wooo! I don¦t think that giving him a 5% to tracking would help ,how fast does a figther orbit?Faster speed seems cool but depends on the tracking... The sig one might be a bit overpowered ;) ,but seems cool.What about a HP Shield boost amount? I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.19 23:31:00 - [75] Tbh the way its suppose to be is the caldari carrier should have the fighter damage bonus but we're talking about the nid. Like i said in every other post like this....Easy fix:shield boost amount,not duration so its cap doesnt get owned so easily. A more difficult one would be jump range or something that has to do with guerrila warfare. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
CHAOS100 Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.19 23:42:00 - [76] Just nerf the rest of the carriers, the problem will be solved much quicker, right? --------------
sr blackout Minmatar	Posted - 2007.03.19 23:44:00 - [77] make the mini carrier to armor tank, and the MS to shield tank... they are pretty much diff tier in a way... so it should work out fine... all you would have to do is then switch and train for shields for the MS change the slot layout to favor that and give like remote rep bonus amount... reducing cap usage on armor/shield is useless it has bad cap to start with it will barley be on par with other capitals... it wont make it better in an area were as a true bonus to remote/logistics would make it better on that area then all other carriers, though I donÆt know whyà I wouldnÆt mind a good tracking bonus on fighters and the slot layout change above
Blind Man Kemono. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 01:24:00 - [78] shield boost bonus kthx
Kaylana Syi The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.20 02:15:00 - [79] Shield Boost bonus for me too ( even though I'll bloody well have to train TSM 5 ) if not gimme 5% jump range per level. Team Minmatar
Victor Ivanov Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.03.20 14:36:00 - [80] Bwahahaha. How old is this thread again? Anyway, it seems that our prayers have been answered: -Drones/Fighters can not be launched and fighters cannot be delegated while inside a control tower force field. Thus: All carriers must be used in more aggressive roles from now on. That sounds pretty damn good to me. Wahoo. Oh wait...The nidhoggur is crap in an aggressive role... O_o I say we boycott the nidhoggur! Nidhoggur pilots unite! From now on, Remote Armour rep your enemies to show them what they are dealing with! You shall learn to fear my 2-3 billion ship and skill requirements of over a year once I ensure that your armour always stays in comfortable levels while you are attacking me. /sarcasm
Padma Sky Lumen Et Umbra	Posted - 2007.03.20 14:44:00 - [81] +1 hi slot
Amy Wang	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:08:00 - [82] Jump range doesnt make much sense imho as you only benefit from it if you use it solo or have a fleet composed of only Nids which isnt very likely. Otherwise the other carriers will dictate the needed cyno field position and your increased jum range is useless. With the now more defined role of carriers of frontline vessels with rev 1.4 I can see a good role for the Nid becoming clear even more: Best fronline support (!) ship which means best in remote repping/boosting other ships while being the worst tanking carrier of the bunch at the same time. To fill this role it needs a better bonus, but not a travel related one or offensive one but one related to remote repping/boosting just like the current one, only better. And to make up for the design flaws of the ship (crappy tanking options and crappy cap) which make it the most vulnerable capital in the game it better be a huge bonus to its support role to make it worthwhile. 10% bonus to remote repait/boost capital mods per level would not be over the top, maybe even 15% per lvl alternatively a combined cycle time and cap need reduction of 7,5-10% per level or a 15% reduction in cap needed for remote captial repair/boost mods
Dray Caldari Endgame.	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:21:00 - [83] Edited by: Dray on 20/03/2007 15:18:42 I like the shield boost bonus but tbh i'd prefer armour rep or armour resist bonus and switch 1 mid to a low and armour tank it, but ultimately whats got me hacked off the most is i trained up for the mini carrier when i couldve trained for the gallente one, having the skills to pilot both other than the actual carrier skill itself. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, well wonderful except for it arriving to late..... Plus if you cant release fighters inside a force field with 1.4 then they really need to sort the nid asap.
Dray Caldari Endgame.	Posted - 2007.03.20 15:36:00 - [84] Originally by: Amy Wang And to make up for the design flaws of the ship (crappy tanking options and crappy cap) which make it the most vulnerable capital in the game it better be a huge bonus to its support role to make it worthwhile. I see where your coming from but still not really an option, its support role would only ever really work for other cap ships, the locking time on bs and smaller would make it a nightmare to handle and as i pointed out in a earlier post any decent sized fleet fight would spit roast bs and smaller fairly quickly and possibly quickly enought to over power the tank plus a remote cap rep, if you were lucky enough to have him locked and able to remote rep in the first place. Bottom line is that the nid has couple of fundemental flaws before we even look at the worthless remote rep bonus.
Maeltstome Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:51:00 - [85] Originally by: Padma Sky +1 hi slot Then its just got the same problems as the naglfar.
Capt Rob Minmatar Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.21 21:50:00 - [86] Originally by: Padma Sky +1 hi slot That would not help the nidhoggur to become better atm in rly anyway
R3dSh1ft Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.22 00:21:00 - [87] yup, carriers are about as well balanced as dreads. especially the fitting, it think ccp was on some kind of illicit substance when designing the fittings of the phoenix fit any kind of 'caldari' fit on it and you end up with 1/3 of grid free and requiring at least one co-pro in lowslot. its a caldari ship guys :) sort it out give it some massive stupid cpu so it can at least fit a cap shield booster and one lonesome damage mod ______________________________________
Victor Ivanov Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.03.22 03:38:00 - [88] Seriously, how much more replies does this thread need? The nanoships thread had 47 pages, so does that mean that we have to bring this thread up to that level? To tuxford: I entirely understand your reasoning behind trying to make the Nidhoggur a Support class ship, and thus less aggressive than others. However, the simple truth is that a support ship should have either superior defense to make up for it, or have some aggressive abilities so that it may survive in battle. Currently, the nidhoggur has the crappiest tank, the crappiest attack power, and (However unfortunate it may be) is inefficient in its role as a support ship. Why you ask? Let me elaborate. CCP has always made their stance on PVP very clear: You engage a ship, you should be aware that you are risking your ship. A perfectly solid philosophy, but the added repercussion that more and more people are trying to balance the odds in their favour, thus: Pilots will no longer engage if their percentage of winning is not supremely superior. This gives way to the "Blob/dock" gameplay that is becoming so incredibly dominant in 0.0 space. What does this have to do with the Nidhoggur? Well, quite simple. No one is going to engage a gang with a Nidhoggur in it unless they are certain they have superior numbers. In which case, anything of Battleship size or smaller is doomed anyway, because Remote Repping a BS or smaller has only a very slight effect when there are numerous hostiles all focusing their fire on one target. Therefore, we can limit the efficiency of the Nid's support role to Carriers and other capital ships. This means that to the existing fictional gang we've been discussing, we need to add a second capital ship, so let's say, a thanatos. The same rule applies: The Gang with the Thanatos and Nid(Our gang) is not going to be engaged unless the enemy has 3-4 carriers with them. The nidhoggur is happily remote repping the thanatos, with one slight problem... If the enemy has an overwhelming force, they would do well to call the nid primary. Why? Because it dies MUCH easier than a thanatos, and because the remote repping could ensure that taking down the already lethal thanatos takes even more time. Thus, bye bye Nidhoggur. Once the nidhoggur is gone, it's 3-4 carriers against one thanatos. To reiterate: The Thanatos does seem supremely more damage than the nid. But it's also the superior tanker, thus any fleet commander worth his mettle is going to take the nidhoggur out first, because let's face it, a carrier is a carrier. Fighters still hurt. In other words: The nidhoggur support role is just not feasible in any Eve warfare at this moment... It's sad, and I know you didn't envision your game to be like this, but alas, such is (generally) the dominant form of fleet warfare going on in 0.0. My conclusion? Penalties for losing your ship are quite steep, therefore players will do anything to limit the chances of them losing it. In my personal opinion, I am not entirely sure whether or not this has a positive effect on the world of EVE, but alas, that is only one single opinion, I suppose. =\ Regardless, all the best of luck and respect to you EVE devs, mods and the likes nonetheless. I do hope you take our plea seriously. =\
Night Tripper	Posted - 2007.03.22 05:26:00 - [89] Originally by: goodby4u Tbh the way its suppose to be... link or reference please
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Temptation inc. Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2007.03.22 05:59:00 - [90] if this really is the way they want the nidhoggur... they should double the bonus... since the ROF only improves like 1 sec on lvl 5 aprox TEMPTATION INC. Killboard

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