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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Smook
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Posted - 2007.03.02 02:57:00 -
[151]
I think that CCP brought this problem to the forum to cover up the recent one with ***... I don't care if some1 use macro as long as it happens via common GUI & the same in-game mechanics applays to it... I guess that CPP would prefer ppl to open rather more accounts & this way gain an advantage over others than buy ISK in RL - somehow it does not supprise me... Maybe CPP should introduce PLAY TIME limits - it is also unfair that one can play 16h a day while some1 else only 2... and so and so...
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Smook
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Posted - 2007.03.02 03:17:00 -
[152]
On the other hand you can legally buy ISK using ETC as a currency...?!
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Voculus
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.03.02 04:12:00 -
[153]
Well buying ISK from others can't hurt the economy that bad, since we can by ISK from you, CCP! _________________________________________________________
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Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.03.02 04:44:00 -
[154]
Who really wants to go mining? I know that I dont. thank god for macro miners. I am getting a new computer soon, so i recently started a new account so i can mine on one computer and play on the other. I want to be able to fly a t2 fitted hac out into 0.0. right now i cant afford the hac or the fittings. I see hacs going for about 150-200mil, when the base cost is under 18mil. hurray 800%+ profit margins. now lets see, why would anyone want to buy isk?
I wouldnt spend $ for isk. at this moment i cant afford a battleship, but i dont even have the skills to fly or fit one. therefore it doesnt even make sense for me to buy isk for one (or really any other ship/item). currently running level 3 missions in a drake, give me a few weeks ill have about 150million, and the skills for a battleship and fittings. however i have no problem with people who do buy isk. people who are willing to spend more money always get to go ahead. they can take a plane instead of driving, or taking a train, they can cut lines at ski resorts by taking lessons, they can cut the line at amusment parks by getting preimum passes. So why shouldnt people be able to spend a 100$ to get a faction fitted tech 2 ship.
the inflation in the economey is more about supply and demand. (or should we say t2 bpos, and the players that need t2 items)
one of the more intresting aspects of gaming to me is death. in halo its death followed with respawn, in counterstrike its death followed with team respawn at the next round, in a mmo i played it was a loss in percentage of xp which at low leveles was almost nothing, and at highlevels it could be over 10 hours of gameplay. in eve there is loss of ship, and loss of pod. this can be anywhere from loosing a t1 frig with nothing good on it, to loosing a titan and getting podded. 100k-100billon?
as for the spamming i cant say ive been evemailed more than 5 times. solved quickly by pressing the delete button account hacking is the only truely negative evil cartels that drive prices up will occur regardless, reasearching blueprints to resell or to produce t2 items and sell for a rediculous price is good for the cartel regardless of whether they are selling the isk for $ or keeping the isk for themselves.
Originally by: GM Nova
We are supporting this trade in order to allow players to subscribe, who do not have access to the available payment methods. There are currently alot of countries where access to credit cards is severly limited. We want to allow them a chance to enjoy EVE. If there are players who have the means and are willing to pay for their subscription in exchange for isk, we fully support that.
GM Nova, please tell me how to make the 300mil on a 14 day trial so i can buy a time card so i dont have to pay using a credit card. please please please do tell. if you can do that and still have somesort of a life outside of 23/7ing on eve i will eat my shoe, I'll even tape it and put the video on youtube so you guys can all watch
Originally by: GM Guard The suggestion that we should sell GTCs directly for ISK is flawed although I must admit that for a short second I thought to myself..."Hey....why didn't we think of that!".
oh yea then I thought we dont make money that way
I think the funniest thing about this is they say there is a limited supply for the isk for gtc market and then say they wont do it because they wont get any subscription fees if they directly sold gtc for isk. |
Noriath
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Posted - 2007.03.02 06:01:00 -
[155]
This blog unfortunatly fails to mention that many systems in Eve are designed to give you extra money if you give extra real life currency to CCP. For example the mining system. Do you guys think it's boring because CCP can't make it better? No, it's slow paced and boring so you can make five times the profit if you have five accounts and you run them all at the same time.
Also, why buy or sell ISK if you can get ISK by selling game time codes to other players perfectly legaly, or run a second account and train characters there, then sell them off for outrageous ammounts of ISK, then pay a moderate transfer ammount to CCP to transfer the character.
Let's face it, you can bypass the tidious work of this game, or make it four, five times more profitable perfectly legally if you are willing to pay more money to CCP to buy extra accounts, game time codes and character transfers. This is not considered cheating, even though it boils down to giving you vast advantages over other players, that affect the ingame world no less then evil macro miners and ebay sellers.
From a business standpoint what CCP is doing is perfectly sound, I just think it's not fair to claim that money selling is being *****ed down on because of the effects it has on the ingame world when CCP allows people to mine with 5 accounts at the same time, and created a mining system that accomodates that style of play surprisingly well.
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Sola Sun
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Posted - 2007.03.02 06:21:00 -
[156]
1) The source of ISK inflation is ISK mass increase, not people buying ISK, since they do not create any.
2) Only way of creating ISK in game are CONCORD rewards and NPC agents payment. Players themselves can not print ISK.
3) So called 'low-income-countries inhabitants' are working as ISK farming slaves for 0.0 controlling alliances, creating ISK mass. Sharing single account with 4 players each working about 8 hours per day, all they need is 1 month old account able to pilot a Raven, do 'warp next belt' 'target 500+k bounty NPC' 'f1f2f3f4f5f6' 'warp next belt'. Being busted, they just change ship, got some income via insurance, and repeat. All they say - 'its my job'. Such a slave produces 200-300kk per working day (not collecting loot). A group of 10 creates about 100 billion in-game ISK per month, actually doing nothing (they do not even know what this game is about).
4) Inflation control is in YOUR hands, dear developers, not players buying ISK. If only you can limit ISK generation to sane amount, say, no more than 500kk per month of gameplay for all characters on account?
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Nylian
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.02 06:45:00 -
[157]
Quote: Whether you realize it or not, Real Money Trading has an impact on nearly everything you do in EVE and ISK buying is a major contributor to the inflation in EVE's economy.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
HAHAHAHA. LOL. How can you honestly hope to post on the forums about why something is against the EULA (ISK selling in particular I'm targetting) when you have your OWN manner of doing it that is totally okay?!
I can't believe how hypocritical it is. GTC Selling wasn't even MENTIONED.
While the intent for buying GTC's may be that you maintain more 'subscriptions' by allowing people to continue playing by being able to buy GTC's with ISK, it doesn't change ANYTHING for the better in regards to inflation.
Completely empty and pathetic devblog imo, except for the apart about keeping your PW a secret.
I am disgusted.
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Magnum III
Journey On Squad
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Posted - 2007.03.02 08:29:00 -
[158]
Then why can people with mony to spare on Time Cards get lots of isk so easy and I'm still puttering away getting to watch them and not play with them because I can not get a good enough ship like a BC?
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Nero Ya'ng
Caldari YaFa Empires
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Posted - 2007.03.02 10:43:00 -
[159]
hi
sure the GTC>ISK trade supportet by CCP is also unfair.
but its not an endless ISK making way. you are limited, the demand for GTC payed by ISK is noth that big like the demand on ISK for $.
i really like the idea CCP will really do something against the ISK farmers.
Only thing CCP should do is, limit the GTC u can sell per month, maybe 1 GTC per month, or 1 GTC every 3 months may be selled for ISK.
so there is still a little advantage for those that sell GTC for ISK, but its more controlled. and cant get out of controll like 1 person buys a few hundret billion isk, not possible with GTC.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2007.03.02 12:41:00 -
[160]
The biggest whopper of unfairness is the fact that the mining system is designed to allow you to run 5 accounts at the same time. That's the whole reason why barge cycles are extremly long and mining is extremly uneventful, so you can increse your income with every extra account you have. Let's face it, single account players in Eve have a hard time. People with 5 accounts will always have money to spare if they have a miner on all of them, plus they can scout thier own routes, create their own cynos, you name it...
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Centurin
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.03.02 16:13:00 -
[161]
Eve is probably the only MMO where alts are pretty much required. ----------------------------------------------- "It's great playing Caldari Online, isn't it?" by Xori Ruscuv
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Centurin
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.03.02 16:13:00 -
[162]
Eve is probably the only MMO where alts are pretty much required. ----------------------------------------------- "It's great playing Caldari Online, isn't it?" by Xori Ruscuv
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Don Temujin
Mothers of EVE
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Posted - 2007.03.02 20:11:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Centurin Eve is probably the only MMO where alts are pretty much required.
Nope, pretty much all graphical MMO* in history - at least with PvE as main resource (mining counts) - have made mules a requirement.
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Herculite
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.02 22:19:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Don Temujin
Originally by: Centurin Eve is probably the only MMO where alts are pretty much required.
Nope, pretty much all graphical MMO* in history - at least with PvE as main resource (mining counts) - have made mules a requirement.
To its credit, there is almost no point to '2 boxing' in WoW.
As much as I hate its raiding end game, they did get that right.
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Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.03.02 22:40:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 02/03/2007 00:03:12
For example:
I wonder if I was a day old player and bought a stack of GTC's, how much real money it would take me to buy enough GTC to buy a tech 2 blueprint capable of producing the ISK to then support the rest of my gameplay through buying GTC with ISK tech 2 profits for as long as EVE exists???
Cheers, Vyk.
At around $1 (USD) for 10m Isk I would say between $500 and several thousand on average. That Modulated Strip Miner II that went for 94bn isk would equal about $20,000. If I landed something like that in the T2 lottery I can see the temptation to sell it and ebay the ISK. I think this points out the problem with the T2 BPO system. BPO's shouldn't be worth so much that people in RL think that you're taking the game to seriously for NOT selling the item and trying to cash out.
Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
Ikvar
The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion
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Posted - 2007.03.03 00:20:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Nifel Was the BPO conglomerate responsible for some (all?) of the absolutely ridiculous prices we've seen the past few months for T2 modules that doesn't really cost that much to produce but were/are sold with a 800%+ markup?
Wasn't it NAGA? I seem to remember being told the reason why their wait times were so long was because they sold their items on eBay and gave the real money orders priority. I also got a link to the eBay store but I don't have it now.
Originally by: Rekindle I was in an empire system when they used their grief tactics to explode everything I own.
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Notnearly OnEnough
Minmatar JumpDrive Inc
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Posted - 2007.03.03 01:59:00 -
[167]
Basically from what I read here, CCP has no problem with Macrominers selling heaps of ORE and buying GTC with illgotten ISK. They allow you to sell ore, regardless of how you get it as long as the ISK is turned into a GTC that converts illgotten ISK into RL cash for them, what they want to stop is competing systems such as EBAY from allowing the sale of ISK to gamers for RL cash.
well, that's fine, but the hole they leave open is that people are not selling the ISK, they are charging for the time that the people who are reselling the ISK took to earn it. not selling the ISK but the labor. and I don't think they can stop that labor charge.
The only way they can stop it is to make it uneconomical to earn a wage while building up wealth of ISK
there are two things that would stop that
end ISK conversion to GTC stops most of the macrominers who convert ilgotten ORE to ISK second, stop GTC's sold thru sites other than there own.
it is very simple. a two step process. have the site that sells the GTC get code #1 they tell CCP that (joe blow) bought code#1.
They you have to use (joe blow account) In game and eve-mail that code to CCP IG. then ccp can convert that code to a GTC to play. they have to take info from the primary seller of GTC and convert it to a GTC.
if they allow ISK to GTC transfers then they have to allow RL cash to Labor transfers. they ISK transfer that happens after is just a gift.
IMHO, it's a system that has many holes |
Notnearly OnEnough
Minmatar JumpDrive Inc
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Posted - 2007.03.03 02:12:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Notnearly OnEnough on 03/03/2007 02:08:59 i guess what I mean to say is CCP allows the sale of ISK for game related services
TS server rental, forum signatures, etc.
How is the collection of ISK not considered a service? I think if you open mindely reviewed the labor that someone spends creating ISK, then thats a great service. I think lots of people with little time would pay for that service. It's like cutting your lawn, it's a service. The ISK they transfer is just a gift.
If they want to stop ISK transfer for RL cash, then they need to plug all holes.
no more TS or vent for ISK no more SIGS for ISK
since they all are labor or RL cash intensive for ISK transfers.
if they truely want to stop ISK transfers they perhaps they need to either charge for it, themselves. or make it less profitable RL to do. stop macrominers also, that's the first step. i think there can't be a lot of people in EVE that own an exhumer. if you hop in an exhumer (what can there be 200 people? 300?) well, flag their ISP or there IP addy, whatever it takes. and see if they are on for heaps of time. if that exhumer is flying 23/7, then dude it's a macro!! simplenuff look at the system it's in, if there are 2,3,4 others and they all station pass the ore to one UBBER player with perfect refine, they check UBBER players IP too, guess what' i bet it's from the same country node also....
whatever, your the tech gurus that get ovr a million USD per month, pay someone to track those IP's , that will fix the base of the problem
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MasterDecoy
Gallente Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2007.03.03 08:01:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Abominog Ok so after reading this mess I have a question,bear with me I could be mistaken in my knowledge and if so nevermind.
It has been said that GTC's are helpful because some countries dont have a credit or debit system in place to pay your subscription with.But I was to believe that the only way to get the game is download online,and to do that,you would have to set up and pay for the original purchase of the game online.
So if they can purchase and download the original game client/pay for it,why cant they pay there subscription in the same manner they bought their account with.
like I said,I could be mistaken since I dont know if a person can buy the game client with a GTC.
im in china, and credit cards were very rare, though a lot less nowadays. and im fairly sure that most people who play online game in here do pay with GTC's.
there's no problem downloading the game, and playing in a trial account, but when it comes time to pay for the subscription, that's where GTCs become useful.
and as far as i know, you don't need to pay to download and install the game.
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Gizzit
Gallente Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.03 11:26:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Gizzit on 03/03/2007 11:26:24 Presumably the only reason that most macrominers are playing the game is so that they can turn game time into real-life cash. If CCP put procedures in place to ensure that the only thing they can achieve by their efforts is more game-time, then the incentive is gone. If they cannot milk the game for cash, then what is the point in them continuing to macro-mine?
GTC sales are different inasmuch as the GTCs are bought for ISK by players who love the game, and lack the cash/credit card to play. Yes, there is in-game profit, but if someone with a little spare cash doesn't want to mine or rat for months to replace a Dreadnought, or to buy their first Carrier, then what really is the issue?
I'm open to persuasion on this...but the way I see it, if people can only use the proceeds of GTC sales to fund in-game ambitions, or to be a bit more effective to their corp or alliance, then its no real sin.
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Notnearly OnEnough
Minmatar JumpDrive Inc
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Posted - 2007.03.03 11:43:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Gizzit Edited by: Gizzit on 03/03/2007 11:26:24 Presumably the only reason that most macrominers are playing the game is so that they can turn game time into real-life cash. If CCP put procedures in place to ensure that the only thing they can achieve by their efforts is more game-time, then the incentive is gone. If they cannot milk the game for cash, then what is the point in them continuing to macro-mine?
GTC sales are different inasmuch as the GTCs are bought for ISK by players who love the game, and lack the cash/credit card to play. Yes, there is in-game profit, but if someone with a little spare cash doesn't want to mine or rat for months to replace a Dreadnought, or to buy their first Carrier, then what really is the issue?
I'm open to persuasion on this...but the way I see it, if people can only use the proceeds of GTC sales to fund in-game ambitions, or to be a bit more effective to their corp or alliance, then its no real sin.
After reading all these posts, this is also the way I am starting to think.
As the poster above this stated. You can download the game for free. You can trial account for free. You can start off with a player who can mine right away. So basically you're out of the gate with out cost (except your time) so youget the ball roling, and get your first 150MIL. you trade that for a GTC (so far CCP is out nothing) You then proceed to mine for a month 23.7 and probably make way over what you'd make for a job OOG. you are in business. The thing these people are charging for on EBAY is the service of gathering ISK for you, it's a service the same as making a SIG or setting up a TS/vent server.
If someone wants to charge me for the service of making a SIG and telling it's up on ebay for $25 then i'd go pay for it on ebay. if someone wants to charge me 50mil ISK for it, i'd IG transfer it. it's the same thing! it doesn't matter which option you choose. the server, SIG or ISK. it's all a service fee (OOG or IG) it's the same
if CCP has troubles with this they need to stop it OOG and IG
How many people in these countries use GTC anywho? 2000 ? I have no idea. but I do imagine that of the macrominers the ratio is 100% macrominers use GTC codes so CCP can not figure out who they really are OOG, since they don't have any OOG info from billing.
If CCP stopped GTC codes they would clear up the issue that is created from ISK selling, since macrominers would now have to show who they really are. It would suddenly show as several people using the same IP , or even same banking account. From what I saw on TV, these macrominers are farms of real people with banks of gamers in a LAN playing thise as a job.
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Mintaka Orion
Caldari Ishukone Subsidiary
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Posted - 2007.03.03 11:51:00 -
[172]
First, lets examine the purpose and reason for playing the game. I joined and enjoy pvp. I like to shoot and kill (virtual of course). That to me is the fun part of the game. However, I feel like I have a second job. I spend 95% of my time mining and trading just to support frequent death in low-sec. Because of the inflation and expense of items I work for 20-30 hours a week to enjoy 1-2 hours of real fun. I have considered drop the game and moving on to another. Solution, issue more BPOs for all items, mostly T2, this will bring down the prices, add competition to the market, which is basically a monopoly for a few. Scaling back the economy will reduce illegal activity. Don't make the profit for the sale of isk go up. They will always find ways around this. The market for this trade is there because of the reason I listed above. Give us more play time do what we really like to do in game and that will make it easier on everyone, including GM (CCP).
Mintaka Orion |
AnimuX
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Posted - 2007.03.03 12:37:00 -
[173]
Originally by: GM Guard ôWhy does it concern CCP what I do with my money!?ö some would ask. ôWhy canÆt I buy ISK from someone else who has more time to spend on EVE than I do? What is the harm!ö others might ask. There is no single answer to these questions so I will give you a few.
Since I'm going to have to drop this account due to the EULA I might as well comment here.
I think there is one important issue that is neglected in this discussion. The fact that the creators of EVE also created the economic system used in the game with all of its flaws including the potential for RMT. Not once have I seen a claim from CCP to take responsibility for building these obviously exploitable scenarios into the core fabric of the game. Yet the post would have you believe there is some impossible force of corruption in the player community causing all of the trouble.
I think it's ridiculous for the owners of a business to call their customers cheats for using the product however flawed.
Originally by: GM Guard First of all, money is power in EVE. Buying your way to power while others slowly and surely play their way towards the top (within the rules!) with their fists clenched and a mad glint in their eyes, is cheating. Plain and simple.
Only as plain and simple as it is to purchase GTC's and exchange them for ISK and if gaining ISK in the game without personally earning it is considered cheating then every newb who joins a corp and receives some starting ISK or a new ship should be mentioned. Let's also not forget those who start one character and acquire another from an older player leaving the game thus circumventing the limitations of skill points.
I've seen every issue regarding RMT refuted (with the exception of account hacking which I think everyone agrees is a criminal endeavor) in this blog by other players who have experienced alot more in EVE than I have. Yet at every step the creators of the game blame the players for ruining the experience. The fact is that every problem with the economics of the game, ISK sales, macro mining, PVP or scams is the result of the game itself. We pay to play but we don't control what CCP does with the game. However, CCP has the power to limit what players can and can't do in the game with each patch and revision. So I don't understand why the players become the focus of the problem when the real problem is clearly in the code. CCP won't take responsibility for it because if they did unsatisfied players would have even more valid petitions including but not limited to requests for reimbursement, subscription time and real money.
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.04 18:50:00 -
[174]
H O L Y S H * T
im sorry ccp but if that doesnt highlight what everyone here has been stating then what else will ? the other threads who have recently been saying that they want GTC's to get ingame isk ?
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Shukin
Gallente Chuskarl's Family Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.04 22:40:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Shukin on 04/03/2007 22:41:40
Quote: Selling online currency has become a huge industry in many low income countries because of the demand for effortless ISK
I dont see anything bad in letting that chinese guy eat more rice if you know what i mean hehe
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Richard Aiel
Caldari The Funkstars Guild
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Posted - 2007.03.05 04:57:00 -
[176]
So buying ISK with Real Money can cause you all sorts of potential Bad Things (confiscation of the ISK, warnings, bans, etc) but taking advantage of free Tech2 BPOs given to you by a DEV gets you.. Nothing?
*looks around the restaurant then look at his mate* "I wouldnt be greatly surprised if a little band came in and started playing *hums the Star Wars Cantina theme*" |
Freisha
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Posted - 2007.03.05 06:07:00 -
[177]
you want to shut down macro miners and other people who do "bad things" to make real life money from a video game etc etc..
all you have to do is take away the profit..
if ccp was to sell the isk itself.. and undercut the sellers.. they would loose their profit margin and no longer be interested in selling isk..
they would take their efforts to another game..
people will always buy in game money/assets.. weather its people who are short on time.. or just big on cash.. but as has been said before.. some kid who buys 2 billion of isk with his lifes savings.. is no further ahead then a guy in 0.0 who farms a complex..
one has too much time on his hands.. and one no longer has a life savings..
the best part is.. the kid buys a bunch of stuff with his purchased isk that his character isnt skilled enough to use.. and he looses it all in a battle.. and the economy benefits.. (kind of like the war industry in real life.. unlimited demand since your product is always being blown up)
just my humble opinion..
fly safe..
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.03.05 09:23:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Herculite
Originally by: Don Temujin
Originally by: Centurin Eve is probably the only MMO where alts are pretty much required.
Nope, pretty much all graphical MMO* in history - at least with PvE as main resource (mining counts) - have made mules a requirement.
To its credit, there is almost no point to '2 boxing' in WoW.
As much as I hate its raiding end game, they did get that right.
Guess you didnt hear about the guy that '5-boxed' WoW with 5 mages running AoE spam with 1 keyboard to run all 5 mages to hit 60 with 5 chars in recordtime... Multiple characters are useful in every game, most common in fantasy MMOs seems to be the healer on 'follow' behind a damagedealer for most of the sologrinding. -------------- In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft. |
Rekiva
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Posted - 2007.03.05 10:52:00 -
[179]
i think player should have the right to buy isk.. not from others players but from ccp, this is a good market just waiting for you guys to open.. if you guys put your heads together and made limits ie 200m a month or somthing that would be fair and rich people wouldnt be able to get there 1st bill in there 1st week
this wont make a difference i know that but this is my view on buying/selling isk for rtm
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Rekiva
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Posted - 2007.03.05 11:00:00 -
[180]
Posted - 2007.03.05 10:52:00 - [178] - Edit - Quote --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i think player should have the right to buy isk.. not from others players but from ccp, this is a good market just waiting for you guys to open.. if you guys put your heads together and made limits ie 200m a month or somthing that would be fair and rich people wouldnt be able to get there 1st bill in there 1st week
this wont make a difference i know that but this is my view on buying/selling isk for rtm
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i suppose that its good for eve that you cnt buy isk for rtm...otherwise eve would end up like 2ndlife AND WE DONT WANT THAT NOW DO WE??????
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