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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Major Stormer
Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.27 23:15:00 -
[31]
GTCs..... Oh wait.
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Arlenik Emmanouelik
Republic of Red Army
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Posted - 2007.02.27 23:25:00 -
[32]
This is a joke, right?
You have people from the community who write for EVE magazine. They have direct links in their articles to their websites relating to the article(ex; EVE Tanking HERE. Some of those sites have advertisements for buying ISK for real money. So, how is CCP going to indirectly advertise ISK selling, and then have a GM write a BS blog about how RMT is bad?
CCP you're up for review.
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Brigadier Joe
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Posted - 2007.02.27 23:34:00 -
[33]
I don't mind GTCs.
Yes, it can get a player a rung or two higher up the ladder of Eve. But it doesn't effect the game in the ways mentioned in the Blog because only CCP benefit from isk-selling, and not farmers/exploiters.
CCP isk-selling doesn't depress the mineral markets (CCP's borked new regions do however...)
CCP isn't farming complexes, or phishing accounts, or macro-mining, or running a 24hr sweatshop, to get the isk to sell you. (ok, maybe that last one ) so GTC sales don't effect the overall player experience even remotely like the isk-sellers do.
In fact, GTC sales probably help the overall player experience, since there are many players who obviously can't afford the RL cash to continue to play. Think about the loss of diversity, community, and targets if that playerbase suddenly dropped out of Eve.
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Constructicon
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Posted - 2007.02.27 23:41:00 -
[34]
I have to say... GTC's O_o
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Tergiminius
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Posted - 2007.02.27 23:43:00 -
[35]
CCP have stated in the past the reason we have the GTC selling is because there are countries where this is the only way they can play, ie no credit / debit cards. CCP have to keep this method in to allow those people to still play the game.
The new method they have employed with the selling through accounts is good because it cuts out the reselling aspect; they never intended for this to happen, it was a side effect of trying to provide a legitamate way for said ppl to participate in Eve.
Don't beat CCP over GTC, they are trying
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Nymos
Fimbulvintr
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Posted - 2007.02.27 23:47:00 -
[36]
very nice blog.
however, it was already mentioned in this thread, but why does isk buying become "legal" and "unebil" if ccp gets a share of the profit? tbh, GTC sales are nothing else than isk sales. someone is able to generate more isk than he needs in game, buys GTC on the forums that someone bought with RL cash and... you get the idea of how he'll convert the GTC back to cash :p
whoever still buys isk on ebay is just dumb. the whole GTC thing is just as flawed and 100% un-ebil. --
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Ryysa
North Face Force Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 23:47:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Brigadier Joe I don't mind GTCs.
Yes, it can get a player a rung or two higher up the ladder of Eve. But it doesn't effect the game in the ways mentioned in the Blog because only CCP benefit from isk-selling, and not farmers/exploiters.
CCP isk-selling doesn't depress the mineral markets (CCP's borked new regions do however...)
CCP isn't farming complexes, or phishing accounts, or macro-mining, or running a 24hr sweatshop, to get the isk to sell you. (ok, maybe that last one ) so GTC sales don't effect the overall player experience even remotely like the isk-sellers do.
In fact, GTC sales probably help the overall player experience, since there are many players who obviously can't afford the RL cash to continue to play. Think about the loss of diversity, community, and targets if that playerbase suddenly dropped out of Eve.
Someone who has a clue, finally...
You see - there will always be RMT ... Whatever CCP does, there still will be people selling isk for real money... WIth the GTC system - more people can play the game, and it DRASTICALLY decreases RMT by 3rd parties + CCP gets money that otherwise would be hoarded by some farmers in sweatshops.
It's a win-win-win situation... I am amazed some people are so full of jealousy and so blind to see it...
N.F.F. Recruitment |
Bruno Bonner
Gallente Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.02.28 00:06:00 -
[38]
Sorry, but got to say that this blog was not exactly very well thought.
If you just have mentioned the problems ISK selling brings in regards to petition and service quality, great.
But they way you tried to portray "ISK trading" as generally wrong....then bad choice, because CCP has never supported that vision as clearly as you put it in this devblog. GTC selling, Char trading, RL-services paid with ISK, they all involve an exchange thats happens out of eve.
Perhaps if you mentioned it in a way to let the reader discern between a fundamentally wrong type of isk-trading in comparison to an "ok and accepted" one, it would make more sense.
regards Bruno ------ aka BinderAJ |
Lincoln Armm
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Posted - 2007.02.28 00:08:00 -
[39]
Well if you can buy a GTC with real money then sell a GTC to another player for cash then you are definitly cheat as is described in the first point of the blog. Its clear that also that some players are generating isk to buy GTCs in order to play. The has exactly the same effect as any other money grinding sort of play, it injects isk into the economy. How large an effect it has is entirely a matter of numbers.
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rciq
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Posted - 2007.02.28 00:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ryysa
Someone who has a clue, finally...
Well... Have a multi-account-chinese farming your plex and turning the isk into gtcs. No matter what he does next (sell gtcs on ebay or use them himself), it's pretty far from being a "win-win-win":P
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Brigadier Joe
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Posted - 2007.02.28 00:35:00 -
[41]
Originally by: rciq
Originally by: Ryysa
Someone who has a clue, finally...
Well... Have a multi-account-chinese farming your plex and turning the isk into gtcs. No matter what he does next (sell gtcs on ebay or use them himself), it's pretty far from being a "win-win-win":P
Please familerize yourself with the new GTC system before posting ignorant comments...
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rciq
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Posted - 2007.02.28 00:47:00 -
[42]
Miss... It is still possible to sell/buy gtcs in both ways (isk and $).
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Kinumi
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Posted - 2007.02.28 00:51:00 -
[43]
Hypocrisy ftw~
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2007.02.28 00:57:00 -
[44]
Yup I also have to add my objection to this dev blog..
Introducing the GameTimeCards made sure you can buy isk with RL money. Making it legal to do character for isk trades kinda comes down to the same thing really, if you know what you're doing.
I don't mind you guys (CCP) wanting the cash for all the IG items, including isk, it being yours legally, but I do mind you not actually setting up a fixed exchange rate.
See here's why I understand people that buy isk: Not all of us are students that don't need a lot of sleep. Not all of us are utter RL newbs and lack any form of social life. If you have a job and a family, you may not be able to spend a lot of time in game. If you have a skilled 3 yr old char you may want to spend that time with your IG buddies, roaming the galaxy for targets in your slightly pimped shippie.
You have a good job, why not be able to spend some of your hard earned cash on isk so you can replace that ship when you need to. Now to be legal you need to buy a GTC and sell it on the forum. You don't have time for that.. You could possible just hire a student to do the work for you, donating him money while he sells you characters for way too high prices to keep it all 'legal' ...
Point is, if you want the money, just ff-ing say so and make it available.. ain't no way you can ever stop people from bending the rules in their favour.
Also macro-miners are annoying and bad.. but how high do you want the mineral prices to be exactly?? Also it's pretty rare to see macro-ers get punished even after they have been reported.. guess macro-ing in itself is not really illegal? Or is having someone pay for 14 accounts just really nice?
PS: yes this is kinda hostile, cos making a blog like this without even mentioning the legal side of isk trading is just plain old wrong..
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide.. |
Cyclops43
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Posted - 2007.02.28 01:06:00 -
[45]
First of all, ISK-sellers should have something very bad happen to them!
That out of the way, how about looking for the reason that ISK-buying is so popular... If this is known, then it might be possible to remedy the reason, removing the problem that way.
If you think a couple of years back, before T2, how much did a fitted fleet battleship cost? After insurance, and with good equipment, it prob'ly cost you around 50-60 million ISK when it got blown up. What does it cost today for a fleet battleship, with T2 equipment and rigs? Oh, I'd say you'd easily be out 300-400 million ISK when it goes kaboom. (I'll here just remind the Dev's at CCP what they said when they put insurance in the game. It was something like "It shouldn't be too costly to get blown up!". Ehh, can I have that again????)
So in just a couple of years, the cost to compete in EVE has risen by more than 5 times!
What are the reasons for this? I have a couple of them that I'd say are mostly to blame: 1. The disaster that is the T2 market! It's been a joke for far too long, and it doesn't look like anything is being done about it in the short-to-medium future. The system is totally broken, but it seems CCP is still clinging to the hope that it'll fix itself. 2. Addition of rigs (but to be fair CCP probably hasn't finished adjusting these). 3. General and regular nerfings of income, like the upcoming nerf of level 4 mission running to appease gankers (sorry, but I say things as I see them...).
In addition, a lot of people are VERY rich (I blame ISK-printing machines T2 BPO's), driving up prices of faction/officer items, and a lot of new premium-ISK stuff has been added to the game (capital ships).
So in general, the price level to compete in the game has been driven (way!) up, the 'Grind' has over and over been made less profitable (repeated nerfs), and CCP wonder why people are buying ISK????
PS: For the record, I've NEVER bought ISK in any way (including GTC).
PPS: As an interim solution to the T2 market. Put all T2 items ON the NPC market at say 3-5 times the base price. This'll put an upper limit on them, and still leave a fairly large amount of profit for producers (without the extortionate prices of today).
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Nir
The Doldrums
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Posted - 2007.02.28 01:21:00 -
[46]
April fools? Oh wait, its a month early.
How can you say with a straight face that real life money should not give an advantage inside EVE and "In EVE money is power blabla" and then NOT mention GTC's?
How are GTCs not giving people an advantage? The source is different (CCP instead of Joe Bloggs ISK Reseller) but does it really change anything?
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Brigadier Joe
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Posted - 2007.02.28 01:28:00 -
[47]
Originally by: rciq Miss... It is still possible to sell/buy gtcs in both ways (isk and $).
check the picture, ma'am.
The new system for GTC sales instantly validates and uses the code. Anyone selling GTC codes and not using web system is
A. A moron,
B. not protected from scamming, and deserves what happens to them.
C. Bypassing the system specifically in order to facilitate the isk-sellers, which would mean they're gonna get banned too.
So unless someone is going to buy the GTC from the CCP reseller, and then find an isk-seller that's willing to give them isk without being able to verify the code, then that isk-seller is going to try and sell an unverified code for cash how? On Ebay??
Those are some very big hoops to jump. I'm sure a few codes could be sold back for cash that way, Not likely to be cost-effective, and the amount of codes that manage to sneak through will go down over time as people learn and be comfortable with CCP's web-based system.
so again, with the addition of the new web-system, trying to use GTCs to convert isk to cash is difficult and not viable as a buisness for isk-sellers.
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Gealbhan
Caldari The Big Sky Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.28 01:46:00 -
[48]
It's simple business tactics really.
In my mind all this is doing is cutting out the middle man - a killing off of the competition and cornering the isk for cash market yourselves. I understand you're in business to make money and isk sellers cut into that, don't smoke screen it with a line about the economy in game, This is about isk sellers taking RL money away from CCP. You have every legal right to go after isk sellers - it is your game, your items, your isk. You own Eve and anything to do with it. Granted.
How much to GTC's go for in isk anyway...?
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rciq
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Posted - 2007.02.28 01:58:00 -
[49]
Of course. It's now secure one way and "no more supported by CCP" in the other. "No more supported" but legal.
The "ISK <-> GTC <-> $" pipeline is still working... Lots of people rather pay $10 not $15. Lots of others are willing to turn their 150mils into $10 legally. Finally lots of those who need 150mil and have spare $15. Hit the damn eBay if u don't believe it. Sir.
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Mr Krosis
The humble Crew
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Posted - 2007.02.28 02:09:00 -
[50]
People keep saying CCP keeps the GTCs because they are greedy and want the money for themselves...d
I havn't seen anyone explain how this actually happens though.
Scenario A) Person pays monthly fee to CCP, $15 approx.
Scenario B) Person does not pay monthly fee, CCP looses out on $15. Person uses timecode originally sold by CCP (to a reseller most likely). CCP gets $15 from timecode sale (actually less than this because they sell it to the resellers cheaper than that).
As far as I see, in Scenario B, CCP makes the same (or maybe a little less) money than Scenario A.
Possible exceptions could be timecodes that are purchased and never used, and people who would otherwise not be able to pay a monthly fee.
-- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. |
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Serenity Steele
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.28 02:14:00 -
[51]
GM Guard, that's a beautiful stroke of PR. I'd still like my petition resolve thanks.
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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Frank Dashwood
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Posted - 2007.02.28 02:15:00 -
[52]
cba to read the replies in this thread, i just thought the blog could have used the following line added on the end:
P.S. You can of course, buy your way to the top by buying GTCs and selling them for ISK. We don't mind that, as we get the cash.
(I shamelessly stole this line from a thread about this blog on the mighty shc forums, it needs to be said here as well.) |
Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar Provenance.
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Posted - 2007.02.28 02:21:00 -
[53]
What is it with the clueless GM "dev" blogs lately? This should be a new "special feature", I'm sure people would get a laugh out of these things monthly.
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Maglorre
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Posted - 2007.02.28 03:08:00 -
[54]
There seems to be one thing a lot of people are missing about the $->GTC->ISK that makes it quite different from buying ISK from other sellers. The number of GTCs that will be bought is limited. It is limited by the number of people playing the game that want to buy them with ISK. I guess if you took it to the extreme it would be one GTC per account per whatever timeframe if it was averaged over a period of time. Obviously not everyone will buy a GTC with ISK so the end result would be somehwere in between.
The macro miner et. al. does not have this limitation, they can keep mining/*****ing/phising/spamming away and converting ore->ISK->$ until the cows come home (as long as people are buying the ISK from them)
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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.28 03:38:00 -
[55]
I know CCP means well...but there really is no way of stopping what is going on.
You can't prevent isk sales (especially with gtc's...) and you also can't eliminate most of the behavior that you attribute to isk sellers, even if you could eliminate isk selling.
"Evil conglomerates are formed and prices go up!" --LOL Worst argument ever. Evil conglomerates would form either way. Whether the isk can be sold for real money or not, it has value to players, and having more is better. So if the isk sellers don't do it, the power hungry alliance leaders will do it instead.
Stopping isk sales is like trying to eliminate recreational drugs, you'll never pull it off, your best bet is to instead try to regulate it.
Shamis
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MasterDecoy
Gallente Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.28 04:37:00 -
[56]
im not gonna bother quoting but the gist of what he was saying is that the way isk sellers go about their business is ruining the game.
now explain to me how selling gtc's are ruining the game?
everybody whining about gtc's don't really seem to get the larger picture except for what is important to them.
"it's not fair: whaaaaaaa..."
some people have more money than time and some people have more time than money. PEOPLE WILL BUY ISK!!!!!! (capitalized for your attention). gtc's are, in my opinion, the only way to allow people to buy isk WITHOUT ruining the economy.
now if only those retards that buy isks from site could get that through their thick noob heads, we'd all be kosher.
peace.
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Lincoln Armm
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Posted - 2007.02.28 05:54:00 -
[57]
I totally fail to see how GTCs have a different effect on the economy they any other form of isk selling. You buy a gtc with real money and then sell it to a player for isk. He will have done some sort of farming activity to earn the isk. Whats the effective difference to the economy?
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Anna Grahm
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Posted - 2007.02.28 06:37:00 -
[58]
GM Guard how much ISK can I get for ú50? I mean, game time cards... sorry, I always get that confused.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.28 06:50:00 -
[59]
CCP needs to stop allowing *players* to re-sell GTCs in game. Period. If you want to pay for time in-game with ISK, then have a DIRECT IN-GAME way to use ISK to buy time. No timecode. ISK->TIME. If it's in-game, then you don't need a code. just transfer 150m (or whatever) to "CCP-30DAYGAMETIME" and boom, another 30 days.
Then allow people to purchase time codes OOG, and apply them to their accounts. Sure, people can re-sell GTCs to each other, FOR RL CASH, but not in-game for ISK. Anyone caught reselling GTCs in game for ISK should get banned, as should those who buy them.
This breaks the ISK<->RL CASH chain.
Everyone is having a stupid contest, and you're in first place! |
raven415
Caldari Special Projects Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.28 07:37:00 -
[60]
Evil conglomerates are formed and prices go up. Hmmm sounds like an alliance to me.
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