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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
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kieron
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Posted - 2007.02.27 20:25:00 -
[1]
Whether you realize it or not, Real Money Trading has an impact on nearly everything you do in EVE and ISK buying is a major contributor to the inflation in EVE's economy.
To give you more insight into the impact of ISK buying on EVE, the community, customer service and potentially your account, GM Guard has a new and rather lengthy Blog with that information and much more. Check out The Price of ISK.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online |
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Eldo Davip
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.02.27 20:39:00 -
[2]
Originally by: GM Guard Recently we busted a blueprint conglomerate that was set up just to skim ISK off the top. That extra ISK was then sold for real life currency. The players involved bought a large number of expensive blueprints over a long period of time with the purpose of monopolizing the market on certain items. They attempted to drive prices as high as possible so that they could skim more money off the top and sell more ISK on Ebay
Damn. Hope's they are some good BPOs so they get reseeded ___
EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER
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Delphi Denon
The Silent Rage FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 20:43:00 -
[3]
First player!
Heres hoping that people stop buying ISK and bring the game back to a level playing field. Thanks for the blog GM Guard
/Delphi
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2007.02.27 20:48:00 -
[4]
An interesting article and quite insightful. Thanks!
I wonder though, if the GTC sales that are allowed don't bring the same kind of problems with it. You can buy the time code and sell it in eve for isk, while a bit more work to get large amounts of isk, i still think that it's possible to buy success in eve with RL cash. While it's very nice from the perspective of CCP (get the money instead of the isk farmers), some of the points made sound hollow (or at least incomplete). It's understandable that such a service is wanted by CCP and a large portion of the veteran players, it's just a bit strange that this aspect of converting $$$ into isk is left untouched...
ps. not meant as an attack.
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Lincoln Armm
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Posted - 2007.02.27 20:55:00 -
[5]
Well, I'm not a big fan of isk selling or anything but your arguments seem to have a few holes.
"Money(isk) is power in Eve" well, it seems that people that afford alts or more leasure time DO have an edge. This is both the direct and in-direct result of having more rl money. I'd also point out that due to EVE's skill system isk does have its limits. Buying a titan isn't going to get you very far if you can't fly it.
Your second point, that isk selling is an incentive to doing anything to get Isk is obviously true but seems to contradict the first point. After all if Isk is power doesn't every player already have incentive? In the example you give of a consortium holding BPOS and driving up prices, this seems like a strategy that players would try just ot make the isk themselves. I don't see why the selling of isk is really part of the equation.
As to Macro-mining I'm sure your correct as to the scale of the operations etc. but the effect of low mineral prices is hard to understand. Sure it makes mining less profitable, but it lowers production costs and makes mission loot less profitable as well. Not saying I think its a good thing just that its hard to say what its effects are on the EVE economy as a whole are.
Obvioulsy account hacking is just completly wrong. But this argument also losses some of its luster when you really think about it. Just because a economic activity can provide criminals a opportunity that is no argument against the original activity. For instance, the auto industry makes cars and spare parts and criminals steal those cars. Thats hardly an argument for not making cars.
And the last aargument is of course circular. Claiming that the efforts to stop isk selling is itself a reason to stop isk selling. Heh.
Again, I'm not a proponent of these activites, just wanted to point out that its not so cut and dried. Here's some additional thoughts:
Since EVE is one Universe a new player could argue that buying isk is one of the few ways he could compete against long time players who have huge amounts of capital built up. Of course the long time player could argue that he deserves this hard won edge but thats something of a different argument.
Isk transfers for ANY sort of out of game reason can warp the EVE economy since they are by definition outside of EVE's market forces. Of course this then brings up the question of time cards since they are in effect moving isk around for cash.
What about character selling? Its interesting to note that most of the arguments stated don't really apply. In theory you could "farm" characters but in practice this seems fairly unproductive.
I've found this area of virtual world/real world intersections fascinating for some time. Its a very interesting topic of discussion.
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Max Tesla
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Posted - 2007.02.27 20:59:00 -
[6]
How do they know who bought the isk or not???
What if the seller gives away isk for free to people and then when ccp checks all transactions they will ban even those who got it for free
also that would be a perfect way to get vengence on some people
Become an isk seller sell to some and transfer free isk to the ones you hate and then get cought so that the ones you hate get banned
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nugpot
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:02:00 -
[7]
Excellent Blog Guard,
I for one am tired of the spam e-mails and msgs in chat.
But, what about the websites that offer ISK for sale? I summise that there is nothing you can about that until the transaction occurs.
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Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Emily Spankratchet on 27/02/2007 21:09:47 I don't want to detract from what is otherwise a good blog, but... How can we have a blog about the ebils of ISK trading that doesn't mention GTC sales?
Edit: Not that I'm saying they're necessarily bad. And not that I don't accept that the mechanisms are different from black market ISK sales. I'm just, y'know, saying.
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Nifel
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:16:00 -
[9]
Was the BPO conglomerate responsible for some (all?) of the absolutely ridiculous prices we've seen the past few months for T2 modules that doesn't really cost that much to produce but were/are sold with a 800%+ markup?
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: Sama |
Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Eldo Davip
Originally by: GM Guard Recently we busted a blueprint conglomerate that was set up just to skim ISK off the top. That extra ISK was then sold for real life currency. The players involved bought a large number of expensive blueprints over a long period of time with the purpose of monopolizing the market on certain items. They attempted to drive prices as high as possible so that they could skim more money off the top and sell more ISK on Ebay
Damn. Hope's they are some good BPOs so they get reseeded
A hundred to one that those included covert ops cloaking device blueprints. ------
Top speed calculation spreadsheet - feedback welcome :) |
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Marcusi
Ars ex Discordia Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:36:00 -
[11]
Originally by: GM Guard EVE is intended to be a level playground where people either make it or not based solely on their abilities and hard work INSIDE EVE, not outside of it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Thank you, that brightened my day.
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Pattern Clarc
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:42:00 -
[12]
maybe you should have mentioned how GTC sales aren't cheating?
It sends a mixed message imho
Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Pangrit 43
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:42:00 -
[13]
This entire post is a crock of ****. CCP sells ISK for cash directly to players through GTC sales. This monopoly guarantees that CCP collects all cash for ISK sales, while at the same time putting deflationary pressure on the value of a real dollar in terms of isk. I'm fine with that, but for CCP to totally ignore its own isk sales, and then go on about how damaging it is to the game is hypocritical and stupid. |
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: GM Guard
blah blah blah blah
Yeah, whatever, you GMs know best don't you? It not like there is systematic EULA violations going on that GM Nova (Is she really in the Goons?) and the other GMs are turning a blind eye to. Now is it?
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Poolpy
dev zero
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:48:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Poolpy on 27/02/2007 21:44:39
Quote: First of all, money is power in EVE. Buying your way to power while others slowly and surely play their way towards the top (within the rules!) with their fists clenched and a mad glint in their eyes, is cheating. Plain and simple. EVE is intended to be a level playground where people either make it or not based solely on their abilities and hard work INSIDE EVE, not outside of it.
Interesting, and what CCP think about: - GTC for ISK - Characters farming/selling - Selling out of game services for isk.
Bye.
ps: hahahahahahahahaha.
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Nvali
Inactive Hardeners
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:53:00 -
[16]
Name and Shame. Get stats out there. Constantly. Not just occassionally with an illustrative example, but routinely - "We banned 371 macro miners *today*. Don't macro mine. You will be caught." - with an update every day, or week, or month - but regularly. Right now it seems like an odd exception to the norm when somebody is busted. Change that perception. ---
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Still Hart
Aurora Medical Systems
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:04:00 -
[17]
Yeah not reiterate AGAIN what everyone else has said, but I think it bears repeating. How in the world can you say ISK selling is bad when GTC sales and transfers are condoned?
I know a guy first-hand who went out and bought (and sold) some GTCs so he could buy a freighter. Normally I frown upon ISK-/gold-/whatever-buyers (because that's exactly what he did) but in this case it's condoned so...I had very mixed feelings about it.
I think all the points made in the dev-blog regarding the evils of ISK-selling are correct so I'm not sure why CCP so obviously supports it... |
Galimiy Portret
R.u.S.H. Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:16:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Galimiy Portret on 27/02/2007 22:13:01 oO
Btw, weren't were some ppl who denied that cartels existed?
...now in RED |
Andargor theWise
Collateral Damage Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:17:00 -
[19]
Damn, I was going to say "what about GTCs", but everyone has already...
Allow the purchase of GTCs for ISK, so that those who don't have any other purchase options can play. But do not allow the selling of GTCs between players. You then avoid the Cash -> GTC -> ISK cycle.
- Got grief?
Revelations MySQL Database |
Celedris
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:19:00 -
[20]
What are your thoughts on Game Time Card selling?
It seems amazingly hypocritical for you to lecture your players about the sins of transferring real money for ISK, while simultaneously promoting GTC selling.
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VeNT
Minmatar Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:26:00 -
[21]
I like meny others find it funny that you clamp down on people selling isk via ebay etc then alow people to sell isk via GTC sales surly this has the same effect on the EVE econimy as everything else?
-------------------- Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet! |
Ribadil
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:31:00 -
[22]
Was also waiting for the bit about GTC selling... please GM Guard, finish your blog
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Biltic Creen
Minmatar Deutsche Minen und Werke Guardian Federation
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:31:00 -
[23]
come on, tell us which BPOs will be reseeded
you made me very curious |
Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:39:00 -
[24]
I would like further clarification on this issue. It is allowed to buy GTC's and then sell them for isk? In essence, that is buying isk, but it is giving the money to CCP instead. Or am I just confused as to the GTC rules? ----------------------------------------------------
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:41:00 -
[25]
Give the player that found a macro, and it was confirmed to be a macro, a one week long kill right on the macros before you ban them.
People will hunt macro miners for you left and right. -AS |
Selzer
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:44:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dev Blog First of all, money is power in EVE. Buying your way to power while others slowly and surely play their way towards the top (within the rules!) with their fists clenched and a mad glint in their eyes, is cheating. Plain and simple. EVE is intended to be a level playground where people either make it or not based solely on their abilities and hard work INSIDE EVE, not outside of it. It should not matter whether you are a rich man or a poor man in the real world. Once you enter the magnificent world of EVE Online, all that should matter is how well you put your abilities to use in the game and the thickness of oneÆs real world wallet should not be used to tip the balance.
Unless of course you are buying your way to power through GTC sales, in which case the whole level playground thing is ignored. Seriously CCP, how can you possibly write this and allow GTC sales for ISK at the same time?
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Dal Thrax
Caldari Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:57:00 -
[27]
Why I think CCP dislikes ISK selling but allows GTC selling: 1) With the new GTC system you don't get anything you can resell (you don't get the code only time). I.e. you can only cash in.
2) With ISK selling you can cash out your in game assets for RL currency.
If you can "cash out" you can move/launder money internatinally. Many governments don't like this and WILL squash CCP if they let this go on.
Dal
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:58:00 -
[28]
hey hey
LolZor at the joke post
RL > GTC > ISK
well done CCP for keeping it in house and legitimsing a laundering process where you get the RL cash.
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lukka
Gallente August Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:58:00 -
[29]
As long as CCP condones (indeed, legitimizes) GTC sales (which is nothing but a regulated market for the exchange of real world currency for in-game currency, regardless of how it's spun), CCP has ABSOLUTELY ZERO credibility on this issue. Period.
Want players to listen to your overtures? Then practice what you preach, CCP.
lukka |
Selzer
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.02.27 23:01:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dal Thrax Why I think CCP dislikes ISK selling but allows GTC selling: 1) With the new GTC system you don't get anything you can resell (you don't get the code only time). I.e. you can only cash in.
2) With ISK selling you can cash out your in game assets for RL currency.
If you can "cash out" you can move/launder money internatinally. Many governments don't like this and WILL squash CCP if they let this go on.
Dal
Here's my take:
1) With GTC sales CCP gets RL currency. 2) With ISK sales CCP doesn't get RL currency.
CCP obviously doesn't like people buying their way ahead in the game (either that or the Dev Blog is lying), so the only reason I can see that they would allow GTC sales is because it is a revenue source for them.
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