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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

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W33b3l Conquest and Kittens 125	Posted - 2016.07.24 21:50:34 - [301] - Quote Wardecs used to agitate me when I was new but I eventually got used to them. I see it as "sweet people to mess with" instead of getting bent out of shape. I normally just go to lowsec and wait for someone to pirate when I watch TV. If im in a corp or alliance that has a bunch of indy guys and isnt a merc corp or something, and we keep starting wars one after another I get really annoyed though. However, regardless if this should be changed or not, it is one of the leading causes of low new player retention and you can not deny that. The other is ganks. Im on board with leaving war decs alone but I do agree that suiganking can be an issue. Ive never suiganked and never will. The few times I had any sway in a corp I was very outspoken about leaving people in highsec alone unless we had an active wardec on them. I can think of only 2 people I would have officially allowed a highsec suigank on but man they had it coming though lol. Suiganking is easy and only people that are too afraid for a fair fight do it in my opinion. Its just math and the F1 key. While it can be an entertaining tool to use when needed, doing it to randome people is pretty gutless. I dont want EVE to be safe, but if they made it harder or more expensive to do this then they already have less players would quit and Ide sit by without voicing anger about it.
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 435	Posted - 2016.07.24 22:41:50 - [302] - Quote Much as I dislike the prominent trashtalk and general attitude of the perpetrators, ganking is no more or less meaningful than any other activity. We don't gatecamp for profit either; no justification is required. In a way, I do believe a good gank or a dec as soon as you drop out of Pator Tech is the best school a player can have. Do you have the mettle to make it in New Eden? Once you hit rock bottom, it's literally impossible to find any lower hanging fruit- yet someone's gotta pick it, right? It's like whoring on suspects getting blapped off the Amarr undock, although in both cases it is important the player realises, by preference sooner than later, some ground rules: - stupid gets punished. - you too have guns-- you can beat them! - items are expendable. Don't grind for purple for it will not persist after your inevitable demise. - insurance has got you covered. To new players this may be a shocker, but that shock has got to come at some point. Since they start off in highsec, a gank, dec, involuntarily turning suspect, getting concordokkened or accepting a mission to lowsec are likely causes. Truth be told, had said newbro jumped a wormhole and wound up in Curse, all chipper and chatty, he'd get the podexpress with our compliments too. Ain't not just a ganker thing, that. Let's be honest here: what did a genuinly new player really lose? A ship he no doubt got for free from Aura, crappy T1 mods worth less than his uninsured ship...? Nah. What he lost is the illusion we were all going to get along-- and that's a good thing. If said player gets blown up time and time again, then he's simply not getting it or insisting on going AFK (yes, I've seen people die in their Venture to a rat and blame me because "I didn't protect them"). If a gank or a gatecamp or a wardec is enough to drive a player out of the game, that player wasn't going to stick around anyway. Training wheels got to come off some time, yes? Those that start keeping an eye out for suspicious activity to avoid making the same mistake again, read up on game mechanics, browse ISIS or EFT to find out how they died, those are going to swim some day. This coming from one who's not exactly on good terms with CODE, mind you. If you fail to notice the flashing skulls in local and the warship heading your way....... what can I say? Some folks just aren't up for it, don't enjoy it, don't feel that urge to GitGud and someday pilot a warship of their own. That's why we have trial accounts: to try it out. Some of those might give it a second look later on down the line, expecting 15 days of hell; find out it's not as bad as they remembered it; and stick around anyway.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4994	Posted - 2016.07.25 00:06:11 - [303] - Quote W33b3l wrote: Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: Move to null if you want war. Actually CCP may be on the tracks there. To repopulate it in different way now. Only if we could have more those players who beside shooting easy targets would like to move to null and be actually in some risk there. Where are you, hardened PvP ers with a lot of ISK for wardecs? You still chase the bunny, not wanting to come up to the challenge of bigger pray that can bite back? 0.0 space is surprisingly bad for PvP - unless you really enjoy just being a small, insignificant piece of a much larger fleet led by somebody else, or you happen to be one of the few people who can handle the stress of leading a 1000 person fleet - which is much like herding 1000 cats... And the reason these fleets exist is to either conquer or protect the space so that the PvE players can farm it. Because ultimately, 0.0 is primarily for hard-core PvE players who want to make a LOT of money. Sure they get to hop into fleets and shoot things from time to time if they want to, but that is just a break from their PvE farming. So - why don't you and all the other people who supposedly want to PvE get your lazy rear ends out to 0.0 space where you could make some serious money doing it, instead of derping around high sec for arguably more direct risk and far less rewards? You have a point. CCP should update the EULA to make the renting of space a bannable offense. Then maybe money (isk) minded people might give 2 craps about moving to null and join a corp that actually owns space. Or CCP could finish WIS and let people buy emotes with aurum giving all the vets the middle finger but bringing in a lot of new players. I say we're screwed no matter what lol. Bu we're fine in the mean time. Yes, lets ban other forms of emergent game play. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4994	Posted - 2016.07.25 00:10:10 - [304] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: If really Null is for PvE null bears, so why mercenaries dont go there after them? Bears with teeth? Pandemic Legion isnt mercenary alliance that is fighting in Null? I thought it was. Maybe CCP starts to think they should make more differentiation between high and null, by making high safer, so actual PvP ers will move where they will not bother PvE centric players so much, and will give these non wardecable social corporations without ability to make industrial structures, and take away possibility to shoot others without war target flag in high. Because they know the PvP players will come after them and the response will be one they do not want to deal with. NS PvP players will come with a doctrine fleet meaning adequate logistics, fleet boosters, tackle and DPS. They can use titans and bridges to move around faster (if they do not mind the fatigue). This is not something HS war dec corps want to deal with...if they did they'd already be in NS. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4994	Posted - 2016.07.25 00:19:51 - [305] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: If nullbears are there and dont care, and the rest of high sec whines, CCP will do what I proposed. If now the risk for common highsec bear is abhorrent, and they dont want to be ganked, and they are not ganked as often as they would fear, and its like they dont even care about ganks if they do it in low populated systems and tech 2 fitted ships, and occasional gank is only pissing them off and they dont want to play any longer, same as with wardecs, CCP will do what I proposed. It will be done to make more players stay. More is not a guy who will HTFU because he likes some aspects of the game he pays for, but the one who will leave if he dont like some aspects of the game he pays for. This game has presumably those HTFU guys olready, so they will stay, and more of those who try and will not whine because there will be nothing to annoy them, will stay. Numbers will rise. Here is the thing, that is not the game people are playing. CCP Falcon wrote: Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec? CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive. If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you. Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back. Link CCP Falcon wrote: Being unprepared and putting all your eggs in one basket to make a nice juicy target for a suicide gank is the joke here, not highsec. There are a multitude of ways to protect yourself from suicide gankers, people just automatically assume they're "safe" in highsec, then get annoyed when they lose a ship because of their own lack of spatial awareness. Link "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4994	Posted - 2016.07.25 00:20:57 - [306] - Quote CCP Falcon wrote: I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now. Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that. Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on. That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas. EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe. Sorry, but your scaremongering counter argument makes no sense to me and carries no weight link "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4994	Posted - 2016.07.25 00:25:42 - [307] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: - stupid gets punished. Not any more! Now stupid is the norm. Want to play stupid...cool. CCP will hold your hand while you do it. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4994	Posted - 2016.07.25 00:49:06 - [308] - Quote W33b3l wrote: However, regardless if this should be changed or not, it is one of the leading causes of low new player retention and you can not deny that. And you base this on what? CCP is very tight with the data, so I'm assuming you are basing on literally nothing. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 438	Posted - 2016.07.25 00:55:24 - [309] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: - stupid gets punished. Not any more! Now stupid is the norm. Want to play stupid...cool. CCP will hold your hand while you do it. See, this kind of remarks always gets me. Why do you say that? How does CCP hold your hand now in a way they didn't used to before? I hear a lot of this "Eve's been dumbed down" but I haven't been around long enough to know what that means. (by preference examples pertinent to nullsec pls) Only thing that comes to mind is Carriers refitting-on-the-fly but they've done a lot of good for caps too. Is this dumber? I don't know. Different for sure. Then again, with command destroyers they've introduced a new line of tactics we didn't have before; introducing tracking on guns and getting rid of cruise launchers on Kestrels doesn't strike me as dumber in any way either-- keeping track of tracking is actually harder, no? Same with the changes to MWD/AB way back-- those were not only necessary fixes but also introduced a meaningful choice for both tacklers and solo pilots. ~erg~ Rambling again. You have the bandstand Teckos- fire away those examples!
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4994	Posted - 2016.07.25 01:00:05 - [310] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: I think you are in mistake. CCP realizes its niche because of reasons, reasons you are not grasping. This niche is every year smaller. Based on what? Where is your analysis or argument. You state this as if it were a fact hanging around out there in the air for everyone to see, but the reality is you are assuming something as true which is convenient for you argument. That is just bad reasoning. So...is there anything you are good at? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4994	Posted - 2016.07.25 01:10:42 - [311] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: - stupid gets punished. Not any more! Now stupid is the norm. Want to play stupid...cool. CCP will hold your hand while you do it. See, this kind of remarks always gets me. Why do you say that? How does CCP hold your hand now in a way they didn't used to before? I hear a lot of this "Eve's been dumbed down" but I haven't been around long enough to know what that means. (by preference examples pertinent to nullsec pls) Only thing that comes to mind is Carriers refitting-on-the-fly but they've done a lot of good for caps too. Is this dumber? I don't know. Different for sure. Then again, with command destroyers they've introduced a new line of tactics we didn't have before; introducing tracking on guns and getting rid of cruise launchers on Kestrels doesn't strike me as dumber in any way either-- keeping track of tracking is actually harder, no? Same with the changes to MWD/AB way back-- those were not only necessary fixes but also introduced a meaningful choice for both tacklers and solo pilots. ~erg~ Rambling again. You have the bandstand Teckos- fire away those examples! I was being sarcastic in light of Nana's posts about removing ganking and war decs. In that case stupid is never punished. In fact, in that case what was stupid becomes very smart. You fit your freighter for max cargo capacity and use autopilot all the time. You will never be ganked as it has been removed from the game. This is true for everyone, BTW. So now you'll see the price differentials between regions fall and people who think, "I'll make all sorts of ISK!" Will be left wondering..."What happened?" Nana killed your profits. Mineral prices will also drop as well because now people can mine without fear of being ganked. They can semi-AFK mine, jet can without any worries, and fit for max yield. Ships that were previously getting destroyed will no longer get destroyed. People who used to gank and fight in HS will most likely quit. And the upside? Some hypothetical bull-*****- about how it will save the game by increasing subs because everyone wants to goddamn mine semi-afk or haul via autopilot. Yes, for fun I too want to play Space Truckers Online (which, ironically, might be fun if it were challenging, but in Nana's view of Eve it would be boring as **). Never mind there is not a shred of evidence to support this, nor is there even any lip service to the potential loss of players such a change could lead too. Nope, it must be done for players who do NOT understand the game and make stupid decisions. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Lex Gabinia Res Repetundae 29	Posted - 2016.07.25 01:17:39 - [312] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: - stupid gets punished. Not any more! Now stupid is the norm. Want to play stupid...cool. CCP will hold your hand while you do it. See, this kind of remarks always gets me. Why do you say that? How does CCP hold your hand now in a way they didn't used to before? I hear a lot of this "Eve's been dumbed down" but I haven't been around long enough to know what that means. (by preference examples pertinent to nullsec pls) Only thing that comes to mind is Carriers refitting-on-the-fly but they've done a lot of good for caps too. Is this dumber? I don't know. Different for sure. Then again, with command destroyers they've introduced a new line of tactics we didn't have before; introducing tracking on guns and getting rid of cruise launchers on Kestrels doesn't strike me as dumber in any way either-- keeping track of tracking is actually harder, no? Same with the changes to MWD/AB way back-- those were not only necessary fixes but also introduced a meaningful choice for both tacklers and solo pilots. ~erg~ Rambling again. You have the bandstand Teckos- fire away those examples! Well, one used to be able to shoot CONCORD. I'd say that is a big one. - Nerf to insurance to discourage HS ganking - Buff to CONCORD to discourage HS ganking - Safety settings to avoid accidental CONCORD death - Removal of watch list to nerf stalking - I mean hunting - Warp to ZERO (though that was because of server issues - maybe with new servers we can get rid of it again?) - Suspect flagging - Scanning simplification - Extended skill queue - No penalty for clone loss - No standings required for jump clones - Skill injectors edit - They took away mines (another server issue - still have some can we get that back with new servers?) I am not suggesting these area all negative changes, but they certainly allow one to play less alert and more casually than before.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4996	Posted - 2016.07.25 01:29:11 - [313] - Quote Lex Gabinia wrote: - No standings required for jump clones This one killed an emergent form of game play. Jump clone service corps like this one. Removing ganking in HS would with high likelihood kill Red Frog...another from of emergent game play. Edit: EACS even made it into a Ten Ton Hammer article. I would not be surprised if the player running that corp quit after the changes to JC standings. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 8411	Posted - 2016.07.25 02:00:24 - [314] - Quote Loki Yamaguchi wrote: CCP's own data says otherwise... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y;t=54s Doc had not seen this before. Thank you. The way CCP sampled some of their data is flawed (e.g.: only 15-day olds, should probably have been 30-60 days) but the results are nonetheless both validating and hilarious simultaneously. Gÿ+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 439	Posted - 2016.07.25 02:59:52 - [315] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: (by preference examples pertinent to nullsec pls) gank gank yawn.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4998	Posted - 2016.07.25 05:39:04 - [316] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: Loki Yamaguchi wrote: CCP's own data says otherwise... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y;t=54s Doc had not seen this before. Thank you. The way CCP sampled some of their data is flawed (e.g.: only 15-day olds, should probably have been 30-60 days) but the results are nonetheless both validating and hilarious simultaneously. I think they picked 15 day "olds" so that they got "new" players. I have no major issue with that analysis. [FYI, I do this kind of analysis as a part of my day job.] BTW, one significant result that is often over looked in that analysis is that 15 day old characters are ganked at a rate of 1%. So this notion that "new players" are targeted for ganking is a load of Bravo Sierra. A more comprehensive analysis would use a logit regression model where the dependent variable is quit (0) or not-quit (1) and then include variables such as number of ganks, number of war decs, NS corp/alliance, age (expressed in something like days or months), maybe even some dummies for various expansions, and so forth. This way we could get an idea of which of these things have contributed to the likelihood a player would quit. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4999	Posted - 2016.07.25 07:44:25 - [317] - Quote So... Can we say that Nana's vision is BadGäó? I don't know about others, but if CCP followed her/his advice I'd probably let my sub expire. [Note: This is not some Bravo Sierra threat directed at CCP, but a result of a significant change in the game I subscribed too. I know some might see this as some sort of "threat" but it is actually a statement to CCP of the kind of MMO I want to play. I, literally, belong to no other MMOs. I play EVE because of its Emergent aspects and if CCP decides it no longer wants an emergent game I will stop my payments. Again this is not a threat, simply a statement of what one player wants in a game.] Further, that games that foster emergent game play are far and few between. While they might be niche, they can be a signifanct niche and CCP ****** up that niche. Their desperation to milk that niche for other projects has resulted in damaging and even killing the one product that has been profitable on the altar of "VR" or some other bullshit that CCP will almost surely NOT be the beneficiary off. As a result the demise of Eve Online is merely a question of when not if. To be quite **ing honest if I were a CCP dev I'd be updating my resume and sending it out to lots of companies. Prediction in 24 months Eve Online will be literally dead, there will not be enough subs to sustain the game and CCP will be dead withing 3-6 months after that and CCP Hilmar will be a complete **ing joke sitting in his den rambling about how he could have been something with VR. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Khan Tzestu Castle Mining Integrated Profit with Progress and Industry 4	Posted - 2016.07.25 07:58:41 - [318] - Quote As a new player I'd have to say this game is fun. On days I want to mine I mine, on days I want to blow stuff up I blow stuff up and get blown up from time to time in doing so. Anyways I always wanted to play a game like this buy never knew it existed until I played dust 514 and even then I really didn't know what Eve was all about until dust died and I gave this a shot. I guess what I'm trying to say is that ccp needs to advertise the game better. There's many more like me out there that would play if they knew. As to holding onto current or past members, I'm just a noob and don't know the gripes well enough to comment on that. But I think if they advertised more widely then people would give it a shot as most humans are lemmings and will follow and go anywhere they think everyone else is heading. Anyways that's just my thoughts and ideas. Love the game and don't want it to die as I plan on being around for a long bit.
Brigadine Ferathine The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult 78	Posted - 2016.07.25 08:14:08 - [319] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: - stupid gets punished. - you too have guns-- you can beat them! - items are expendable. Don't grind for purple for it will not persist after your inevitable demise. - insurance has got you covered. Please tell me where the guns are on a freighter. Most haulers have a whopping one gun... what is the point...
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4999	Posted - 2016.07.25 08:18:45 - [320] - Quote Khan Tzestu wrote: As a new player I'd have to say this game is fun. On days I want to mine I mine, on days I want to blow stuff up I blow stuff up and get blown up from time to time in doing so. Anyways I always wanted to play a game like this buy never knew it existed until I played dust 514 and even then I really didn't know what Eve was all about until dust died and I gave this a shot. I guess what I'm trying to say is that ccp needs to advertise the game better. There's many more like me out there that would play if they knew. As to holding onto current or past members, I'm just a noob and don't know the gripes well enough to comment on that. But I think if they advertised more widely then people would give it a shot as most humans are lemmings and will follow and go anywhere they think everyone else is heading. Anyways that's just my thoughts and ideas. Love the game and don't want it to die as I plan on being around for a long bit. Ahahahahahahahaha.... You might want to have a word with CCP. And for God's sake do NOT spend more than a month's worth of subscription cost at this point. You might want to have a word with CCP. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5000	Posted - 2016.07.25 08:19:59 - [321] - Quote Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: - stupid gets punished. - you too have guns-- you can beat them! - items are expendable. Don't grind for purple for it will not persist after your inevitable demise. - insurance has got you covered. Please tell me where the guns are on a freighter. Most haulers have a whopping one gun... what is the point... Freighters do not have guns...to beat them you use a....wait....wait....wait...a scout in a noob ship. I know ridiculous right? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1919	Posted - 2016.07.25 08:35:22 - [322] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: - stupid gets punished. - you too have guns-- you can beat them! - items are expendable. Don't grind for purple for it will not persist after your inevitable demise. - insurance has got you covered. Please tell me where the guns are on a freighter. Most haulers have a whopping one gun... what is the point... Freighters do not have guns...to beat them you use a....wait....wait....wait...a scout in a noob ship. I know ridiculous right? So you have to have two accounts to play Eve, so grind for plex or two subs, this is a major reason as it kills casual play. COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 17024	Posted - 2016.07.25 08:44:20 - [323] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: - stupid gets punished. - you too have guns-- you can beat them! - items are expendable. Don't grind for purple for it will not persist after your inevitable demise. - insurance has got you covered. Please tell me where the guns are on a freighter. Most haulers have a whopping one gun... what is the point... Freighters do not have guns...to beat them you use a....wait....wait....wait...a scout in a noob ship. I know ridiculous right? So you have to have two accounts to play Eve, so grind for plex or two subs, this is a major reason as it kills casual play. hardly ,mmo right , make friends they work for this too. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1919	Posted - 2016.07.25 08:59:08 - [324] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: - stupid gets punished. - you too have guns-- you can beat them! - items are expendable. Don't grind for purple for it will not persist after your inevitable demise. - insurance has got you covered. Please tell me where the guns are on a freighter. Most haulers have a whopping one gun... what is the point... Freighters do not have guns...to beat them you use a....wait....wait....wait...a scout in a noob ship. I know ridiculous right? So you have to have two accounts to play Eve, so grind for plex or two subs, this is a major reason as it kills casual play. hardly ,mmo right , make friends they work for this too. Hi guys can someone be a scout for me as I move my freighter, hmmmm sounds interesting yeah it will be fun , lets do it yay!!!! COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5000	Posted - 2016.07.25 09:41:09 - [325] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Brigadine Ferathine wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: - stupid gets punished. - you too have guns-- you can beat them! - items are expendable. Don't grind for purple for it will not persist after your inevitable demise. - insurance has got you covered. Please tell me where the guns are on a freighter. Most haulers have a whopping one gun... what is the point... Freighters do not have guns...to beat them you use a....wait....wait....wait...a scout in a noob ship. I know ridiculous right? So you have to have two accounts to play Eve, so grind for plex or two subs, this is a major reason as it kills casual play. Where did I say 2 accounts? There you go again Kreskin. No, shitler, you have a friend, a buddy, some body in game, another person, who is willing to help you. Stop reading between the lines and assuming it just makes you look like a shitler. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5000	Posted - 2016.07.25 09:42:58 - [326] - Quote Dracvlad hardly ,mmo right , make friends they work for this too.[/quote wrote: Hi guys can someone be a scout for me as I move my freighter, hmmmm sounds interesting yeah it will be fun , lets do it yay!!!! I know it is ridiculous in an MMO to make friends. How about you logoff and uninstall so that the rest of us can get on with things. No, really. Just logoff an uninstall. Idiot. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 1919	Posted - 2016.07.25 09:56:15 - [327] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Quote: hardly ,mmo right , make friends they work for this too. Hi guys can someone be a scout for me as I move my freighter, hmmmm sounds interesting yeah it will be fun , lets do it yay!!!! I know it is ridiculous in an MMO to make friends. How about you logoff and uninstall so that the rest of us can get on with things. No, really. Just logoff an uninstall. Idiot. Well it is so funny, get a friend to help you do the most boring activity in the whole game which is moving a freighter, what planet are you on. Oh goody when I skill up I want to be a scout for a freighter, great fun COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5000	Posted - 2016.07.25 10:41:30 - [328] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Quote: hardly ,mmo right , make friends they work for this too. Hi guys can someone be a scout for me as I move my freighter, hmmmm sounds interesting yeah it will be fun , lets do it yay!!!! I know it is ridiculous in an MMO to make friends. How about you logoff and uninstall so that the rest of us can get on with things. No, really. Just logoff an uninstall. Idiot. Well it is so funny, get a friend to help you do the most boring activity in the whole game which is moving a freighter, what planet are you on. Oh goody when I skill up I want to be a scout for a freighter, great fun You want to move a capital ship with a valuable cargo..get a friend...how silly. Dum-b-ass. Really, can you just uninstall the game? "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 17026	Posted - 2016.07.25 11:00:18 - [329] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Quote: hardly ,mmo right , make friends they work for this too. Hi guys can someone be a scout for me as I move my freighter, hmmmm sounds interesting yeah it will be fun , lets do it yay!!!! I know it is ridiculous in an MMO to make friends. How about you logoff and uninstall so that the rest of us can get on with things. No, really. Just logoff an uninstall. Idiot. Well it is so funny, get a friend to help you do the most boring activity in the whole game which is moving a freighter, what planet are you on. Oh goody when I skill up I want to be a scout for a freighter, great fun Its a favour i would do for a mate at the drop of a hat if required and i know any of us would do for me if i was stuck for a scout. Its not about fun its about keeping a significant investment alive. Christ man, What kind of jackass wouldnt scout a corpmate. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 2646	Posted - 2016.07.25 11:22:41 - [330] - Quote Less people are logging not because freighters require scouts. Capital ships have always required support, and this is after all a social game designed to reward grouping up. Why are less people logging in? Well like all of you I lack the data to say exactly why, and honestly, I am not sure even CCP with all the data could pinpoint the cause or causes given their inability to reverse trends. We can though pretty confidently say it is not the presence of ganking, wardecs, the vulnerability of freighters any of the other boogey-men that are constantly raised by certain segments of the player-base. These things were part of the initial game design and have been with us for the whole lifetime of the game, including the times when the game grew the fastest. In reality, the impact and risk of these things to players has been repeatedly nerfed so that players have never been mechanically safer. In fact, it is this increased safety and ease of earning wealth that I suggest is smothering the game. CCP Quant's data show that New Eden is stuck in a chronic situation of over-production where we have been producing three times what we are destroying for years now. Incomes can be made with near no risk, with no need to take space or even leave highsec. Jump freighter logistics, which were almost risk-free before, are now completely risk-free with the Citadel tethering mechanic. Basically, CCP has removed so much of the risk and ability to force a fight, and provided income sources that don't require building or holding an empire, that people have stopped doing so. The big coalitions got this and retreated to the invulnerability of lowsec - there is literally no point in holding sov. Perhaps killing the blue donut and leaving nullsec to smaller groups will be better for generating wars more often, but they won't be of the scale and consequence of previous wars. I am optimistic that this might stimulate activity, but fighting only to put your name on the map grows old quickly, especially after you have been steamrolled a few times and have the easy option of highsec incursions to fall back on. There needs to be incentive and reasons to head out and try to stake a claim on your space and to defend it. Perhaps once all the structures are implemented, those rewards will be there, but as it is there is no reason to take space or put something on the line when you can make an income safely in highsec and just roam outside when you want attacking others on your own terms. Perhaps Seagull's vision of new space will provide the rewards necessary to get people fighting again for something other than just the fight itself which seems to be the sole motivation of most conflict in the game today and this was not always the case. The game desperately needs more real conflict drivers to induce players to spend some of the wealth that we all are accumulating on attacking each other for a meaningful reason. But this roadmap of hers is a long time coming, and each month less and less people are sticking around. On my pessimistic days, I am afraid it might already be too late and if or when we pass some tipping point of low activity, I fear there will be an astonishing fail-cascade of the player-driven market which will push a large fraction of non-PvP crowd whose primary game activity is to supply the market out of the game further killing activity. This road of making everyone rich and safe only has one outcome, and it is complete stagnation of the game and death of the economy. Highsec can be safe, but it can't be as safe and lucrative as it is now, and even highsec needs motivations for players to engage with each other to give a point to all this grinding and building. Even the spaces outside highsec are far too safe with the powerful free intel tool of local and other such crutches that enable the evasion that prevents conflict from even starting. Players need reasons to fight, and the ability to force each other to fight - Eve Online is not sustainable as a consensual small gang spaceship combat simulator as has been the primary development direction in recent years. Such consensual fights just for honour and bragging rights should be the exception, not the norm as it is today, and most fighting should take place for strategic reasons or for direct piracy or resource collection purposes if you want a meaningful game. This is just my opinion and perhaps I am reading the incomplete dataset I have totally wrong. Turning around the decline isn't my problem anyway, and it is up to CCP to produce a game that people want to play. Perhaps there are just not enough people who want this product in the changing gaming marketplace and Eve Online is doomed no matter what, but I think we can all say that this kinder, gentler Eve where being content is optional and no-one's fun can really be ruined is not working very well at retaining players. Maybe it is time to look at a return to the harsher roots of the game where taking risks and grouping up with players to leave the solo and safe space of highsec was truly rewarded, and actions had meaning and consequence is a universe much less saturated with resources and wealth. Whatever the prescription, I think if this trend continues into the fall and winter as steep as Teckos' chart shows, drastic intervention will be necessary to save the patient. There are clearly many things that need to be addressed but CCP could not do wrong by injecting some meaningful long-term objectives into the game, and step hard on the accelerator to get than new Jove space or whatever Jesus-feature they have planned out ASAP. It is not enough to just provide shiny toys and a pretty sandbox and tell us to go play - they need to engineer reasons to both build sand castles, and bash each other over the head into the sandbox as well. Why Do They Gank?



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