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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

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Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 12674	Posted - 2016.07.31 12:34:16 - [571] - Quote Thread title wrote: Every year, there are less users playing, why?? *fewer Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi . Bumble's Space Log
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26473	Posted - 2016.07.31 12:46:37 - [572] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: TL;DR - Eve forums are now apparently a platform to self publish self aggrandising and poorly written conspiracy fiction. FTFY Come back Dinsdale, almost all is forgiven. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 2044	Posted - 2016.07.31 12:58:33 - [573] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Dracvlad wrote: (...) by a toxic player base Yeah, I can clearly see the toxic player base in this thread. They are led by players like you. Oh I am deeply wounded to the core of my being, not... That is what he said in 2009, talk about shooting the messenger. I have met some great people in Eve and continue to meet great people, but on the forums, it is kinda sad, they tell me I am passive aggresive, link gifs calling me an idiot, say that I said I am an expert in something which I never said, tell me I want 100% safe hisec which I don't, that is pretty toxic. And one even attempts to stalk me.... When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26473	Posted - 2016.07.31 13:17:36 - [574] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: they tell me I am passive aggresive You are. Quote: link gifs calling me an idiot Subjectively, they're not wrong. Quote: say that I said I am an expert in something which I never said Learn to read. Quote: tell me I want 100% safe hisec which I don't You certainly appear to want it to be safer for those that can't be bothered to actually play the game or learn the mechanics. Quote: And one even attempts to stalk me.... Pointing out that around 80% of what you post is either wrong, opinion, or just downright bollocks is not stalking, it's a public service. Feeling persecuted much? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 2044	Posted - 2016.07.31 13:19:54 - [575] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Feeling persecuted much? Hiya my little stalker, still upset on being called out on your total lack of PvP kills. Oh hold on still have that funny one where you threatened me with putting a freighter in my way so I can gank it... When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26473	Posted - 2016.07.31 13:23:20 - [576] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Feeling persecuted much? Hiya my little stalker, still upset on being called out on your total lack of PvP kills. Yep, I'm so upset about it that I openly admit to having exactly zero PvP kills If you feel that I'm stalking you, which is a crime, please feel free to report it to CCP and your local police station. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 2044	Posted - 2016.07.31 13:25:13 - [577] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Feeling persecuted much? Hiya my little stalker, still upset on being called out on your total lack of PvP kills. Yep, I'm so upset about it that I openly admit to having exactly zero PvP kills If you feel that I'm stalking you, which is a crime, please feel free to report it to CCP and your local police station. You are so obsessed its kinda cute. When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26473	Posted - 2016.07.31 13:27:49 - [578] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Feeling persecuted much? Hiya my little stalker, still upset on being called out on your total lack of PvP kills. Yep, I'm so upset about it that I openly admit to having exactly zero PvP kills If you feel that I'm stalking you, which is a crime, please feel free to report it to CCP and your local police station. You are so obsessed its kinda cute. You're delusional my friend, seek help. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 2044	Posted - 2016.07.31 13:30:13 - [579] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Feeling persecuted much? Hiya my little stalker, still upset on being called out on your total lack of PvP kills. Yep, I'm so upset about it that I openly admit to having exactly zero PvP kills If you feel that I'm stalking you, which is a crime, please feel free to report it to CCP and your local police station. You are so obsessed its kinda cute. You're delusional my friend, seek help. Thank you for proving it yet again... When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5048	Posted - 2016.07.31 19:36:10 - [580] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: removed giant wall of text Apparently you did not quite comprehend my point. Making Eve more fitting with casual play is also a nerf to other play styles. Which can cause people to leave the game. As I noted, it is a very risky move in that may very well induce players who wanted the Eve we have/had to just leaving and there is absolutely no assurance that the new exponential growth path will be like the initial one. In fact, there is reason to believe otherwise. Eve has a long history of being rough and harsh, a kinder-gentler Eve may not pull in nearly as many players as you think while driving out those formerly loyal customers. And at the same time this move towards "favoring more casual play" (WTF does that even mean?) is one that will destroy the game. Oh not necessarily in the servers go cold, but destroy the game most of use came here to play. I did not come here to play candy crush, I came here to play Eve. When I jump through a gate I want there to be some element of uncertainty to that action (not risk, BTW, but uncertainty). Quote: Now back to the current situation, I sold my heap of junk called a Charon, to me it is just worthless, because the only way I could defend it and its goods was to have a webber, a scout and a couple of suicide gankers to kill the blackbird that would point it so a Macherial could get on it. I don't have 5 accounts, furthermore because of the ease of spying and the like I keep my corp only with people that I know and most of them no longer play. And apparently you don't have 5 friends in game either. I'll also note you are wildly exaggerating the effects of suicide gankers. I have managed just fine with a scout alt account. I have the scout jump in, look around, and then send the big guy through if clear, if not dock up and watch Netflix, something on Amazon, go do something to reduce wife aggro, etc. I mean, yeah if you are insistent on trying to get through when CODE. or some other ganking group is active...it will require more effort. But for the love of God you are trying to move a ship worth over a billion ISK full of valuable cargo...unprotected? Really? There is a word for that, it is called imprudent. When you are imprudent you can suffer the consequences from time-to-time. Quote: So what I am doing is making it difficult for people to get at me, but in doing that removing game play. There is a difference between you doing that and CCP doing it. CCP doing it means it is removed for EVERYONE and there is no more choice, even if they are bad choices. You doing it only affects you and is a marginal impact on those who would otherwise gank you. It is typical of people to reason like this. "Well it is good for me, so it must be good for everyone." Not for the gankers. And guess what they are paying customers too. Further, what makes sense at the individual level can often look stupid at the macro/aggregate level. For example, rushing to your bank when it is in a state of illiquidity and yanking your money out. Rational at the individual level, but when everyone does it, you have a bank run which can take a sound yet illiquid bank and drive it out of business and possibly threatening everyone's money.* Quote: But the perception that is most important is that all these things like ganking, spying, scamming etc. are stupidly easy, but impossible to stop. Really, I've never been ganked. It is called being prudent. It may not stop it 100% of the time, but it will reduce it. And if your goal is to reduce it 100% then that may come at tremendous cost, like a significant chunk of the remaining players logging in. You are complaining about things that CCP and many of us see as features, not bugs.** I have also not been scammed. I look at all those "too good to be true" offers and think...too good to be true most likely a scam. Especially if it involves another player. And while I have not run a corporation or an alliance, I'd argue that it is the same thing. Being prudent. Do not put all alliance assets in the reach of a single player. Really it is an old, old addage...well three actually. 1. Don't put all your eggs in one basket (lots of gank victims fail this one). 2. Don't put the fox in charge of guarding the hen house (people who fall for corp thefts fail this one). 3. If it is too good to be true, it probably is (people who fall for scammers fail this one). If you fall for all 3....God help you, both in game and IRL. In fact, if you haven't learned these and you learn them here in game...well consider it a good and valuable lesson before learning it with RL money and assets. Like for example the foolish employees at Enron who put all of their 401k holdings into Enron stock. They got greedy and when the company collapsed they lost it all, their jobs, their retirements, everything...but they were imprudent. They were foolish. Yes is bad for them, but they were also greedy. Note there is significant difference between an insolvent bank and one that is merely illiquid. *And no, I have never engaged in corp theft or spying against my corp or alliance, nor do I intend to. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 8476	Posted - 2016.07.31 19:47:47 - [581] - Quote Meine Augen! Walls of text! In before someone starts bitching about AFK cloaky campers on top of everything else. Gÿ+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 2045	Posted - 2016.07.31 19:49:24 - [582] - Quote Eve seems to be kind and friendly to gankers. When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5048	Posted - 2016.07.31 20:08:38 - [583] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: Meine Augen! Walls of text! In before someone starts bitching about AFK cloaky campers on top of everything else. Too late. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 512	Posted - 2016.07.31 20:10:42 - [584] - Quote I'll just leave this here. Campers gonna Camp
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5048	Posted - 2016.07.31 20:10:47 - [585] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Eve seems to be kind and friendly to gankers. They always lose their ships whenever they gank. Yeah, it may "look easy" but they put in quite a bit of effort and know the game's mechanics. So we are to penalize them for that effort and human capital? Sounds like a plan to retain players. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5048	Posted - 2016.07.31 20:11:36 - [586] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: I'll just leave this here. Campers gonna Camp Oh God....Dictateur Imperato you poor soul.... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 2045	Posted - 2016.07.31 20:32:51 - [587] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Eve seems to be kind and friendly to gankers. They always lose their ships whenever they gank. Yeah, it may "look easy" but they put in quite a bit of effort and know the game's mechanics. So we are to penalize them for that effort and human capital? Sounds like a plan to retain players. Yeah a Catalyst, sometimes a Stealth Bomber or a Brutix or a Talos not a huge deal when it comes to the vast profits they make. But that is often down to stupid people carrying too much cargo. Catalysts went out of favour because AG was bumping the freighter out of optimal so they now largely use SB's. They are well organised, well funded but it is not exactly difficult. The issue is the lack of consequences, they lose a ship which they know they are going to lose, they have 15 minutes of criminal timer and a penalty on their security status which matters not as they are already -10. Its a pretty weak consequence. What some people have suggested and I agree with is to simply add an inability to dock in NPC hisec stations. Does that sound really that bad when they have looted so many freighters carrying Citadels which they have already seeded along most of the ganking routes. Seriously? A Medium Citadel costs 700m big deal for them no! Next up is the loot scooping as I said the AG players had some alts that did that, they don't have any income like the gankers and what they gank on is net account, simple as. People are not going to gank 15,000 EHP on low skill alts with just a loss leader. That was the issue with the EHP, it was put above their ability to do it, perhaps if CCP had not cut it off as it was just happening those players might have got into it enough to train up what they needed, but they did not have a chance too. If CCP could re-look at this taking into account game balance I would be happy, perhaps drop it down a bit so its at the level of two cruisers. And then after a while put it back up to 15,000 EHP. So now we get to the loot scooping, oh dear I can kill a noob ship, they place a DST next to the wreck and of course a freighter, then the noob ship scoops directly into the DST, the freighter pilot takes it into his hold. The noob ship is the only one to go suspect. Total loot security for low risk. So if we cannot blap the wreck for reasons perhaps CCP could look at this aspect and adjust it. Again is this so unreasonable. Bumping, its a point without applying aggro, about as low risk PvP that you can get, at least CCP is looking to change it so they have to point the freighter with a noob ship every three minutes, wow tats going to hurt a lot. But I will see how this goes, at least they will have to move a bit quicker could mean that AG catch a few more on gates and some gankers will have to fund another account or two like Mr Chicken. In any case we have to accept this approach as being reasonable that after 3 minutes the freighter will go into warp unless it is pointed. I am happy about this because it add just a bit more effort on their side. They will not be able to keep someone there for hours which was my main issue. That is what t I am suggesting, but those suggestions are destroying ganking and making it impossible, LOL, seriously? When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 2045	Posted - 2016.07.31 20:58:01 - [588] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: I'll just leave this here. Campers gonna Camp I know the law, it does exist, I think it is however hot air I don't reckon he has the money to fund it. For a start he chose to play Eve and subject himself to its pleasures, he can just stop if it annoys him that much. When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26483	Posted - 2016.07.31 21:19:20 - [589] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: They always lose their ships whenever they gank. [sarcasm] Accepting a consequence as a cost of doing business means that it isn't a consequence. [/sarcasm] Quote: Yeah, it may "look easy" but they put in quite a bit of effort and know the game's mechanics. So we are to penalize them for that effort and human capital? Sounds like a plan to retain players. I think the general idea is to make team work less effective at overcoming the efforts of an individual... Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Giovanni erkelens2 rock shot industries Phoenix Company Alliance 44	Posted - 2016.07.31 21:24:43 - [590] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Eve seems to be kind and friendly to gankers. They always lose their ships whenever they gank. Yeah, it may "look easy" but they put in quite a bit of effort and know the game's mechanics. So we are to penalize them for that effort and human capital? Sounds like a plan to retain players. Yeah a Catalyst, sometimes a Stealth Bomber or a Brutix or a Talos not a huge deal when it comes to the vast profits they make. But that is often down to stupid people carrying too much cargo. Catalysts went out of favour because AG was bumping the freighter out of optimal so they now largely use SB's. They are well organised, well funded but it is not exactly difficult. The issue is the lack of consequences, they lose a ship which they know they are going to lose, they have 15 minutes of criminal timer and a penalty on their security status which matters not as they are already -10. Its a pretty weak consequence. What some people have suggested and I agree with is to simply add an inability to dock in NPC hisec stations. Does that sound really that bad when they have looted so many freighters carrying Citadels which they have already seeded along most of the ganking routes. Seriously? A Medium Citadel costs 700m big deal for them no! Next up is the loot scooping as I said the AG players had some alts that did that, they don't have any income like the gankers and what they gank on is net account, simple as. People are not going to gank 15,000 EHP on low skill alts with just a loss leader. That was the issue with the EHP, it was put above their ability to do it, perhaps if CCP had not cut it off as it was just happening those players might have got into it enough to train up what they needed, but they did not have a chance too. If CCP could re-look at this taking into account game balance I would be happy, perhaps drop it down a bit so its at the level of two cruisers. And then after a while put it back up to 15,000 EHP. So now we get to the loot scooping, oh dear I can kill a noob ship, they place a DST next to the wreck and of course a freighter, then the noob ship scoops directly into the DST, the freighter pilot takes it into his hold. The noob ship is the only one to go suspect. Total loot security for low risk. So if we cannot blap the wreck for reasons perhaps CCP could look at this aspect and adjust it. Again is this so unreasonable. Bumping, its a point without applying aggro, about as low risk PvP that you can get, at least CCP is looking to change it so they have to point the freighter with a noob ship every three minutes, wow thats going to hurt a lot. But I will see how this goes, at least they will have to move a bit quicker could mean that AG catch a few more on gates and some gankers will have to fund another account or two like Mr Chicken. In any case we have to accept this approach as being reasonable that after 3 minutes the freighter will go into warp unless it is pointed. I am happy about this because it add just a bit more effort on their side. They will not be able to keep someone there for hours which was my main issue. That is what t I am suggesting, but those suggestions are destroying ganking and making it impossible, LOL, seriously? While im not a fan of the idea of Access restriction for HS stations, i have to agree on the part of loot scooping, its More of an exploit than an actual gameplay element. And should be, as much as i like it, removed, cuz it disables the non ganking party's change to get loot/retaliation. Killing a noobship or a frig isnt as much statisfying as killing the enemy looter with the loot in their Bay.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5051	Posted - 2016.07.31 21:34:12 - [591] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: snipped Again whose fault is it that they make huge profits? Let me see, a guy does something imprudent and foolish...other players who know the mechanics, and have put forth considerable effort to take advantage of that foolishness and imprudence....and we blame those who imposed a cost on that foolishness and imprudence. Yep, that is totally reasonable. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5051	Posted - 2016.07.31 21:36:24 - [592] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: They always lose their ships whenever they gank. [sarcasm] Accepting a consequence as a cost of doing business means that it isn't a consequence. [/sarcasm] Quote: Yeah, it may "look easy" but they put in quite a bit of effort and know the game's mechanics. So we are to penalize them for that effort and human capital? Sounds like a plan to retain players. I think the general idea is to make team work less effective at overcoming the efforts of an individual... Yeah, because the work of 50-80 people should not count more than the work of one dope who overloaded his freighter and went through one of the most hostile systems to overloaded freighters in the game. Yep...that is some awesome game design right. Go ahead be a complete fecking idiot and CCP will make things better for you. Dracvlad should run for CSM, his platform can be: Lets make Eve stupid. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5051	Posted - 2016.07.31 21:52:31 - [593] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: The issue is the lack of consequences, they lose a ship which they know they are going to lose, they have 15 minutes of criminal timer and a penalty on their security status which matters not as they are already -10. Its a pretty weak consequence. What some people have suggested and I agree with is to simply add an inability to dock in NPC hisec stations. Does that sound really that bad when they have looted so many freighters carrying Citadels which they have already seeded along most of the ganking routes. Seriously? A Medium Citadel costs 700m big deal for them no! This is just so stupid. The reason it is stupid is that there are two parts to this so called problem. On one hand we have a group of players, for the sake of brevity lets just use CODE. as a place holder, that, 1. Know the game mechanics. 2. Have innovated and set up an alliance and logistics frame work dedicated for ganking freighters (lets ignore the ganking of miners) 3. Accept the costs of their actions. First off 3 does not imply there is no cost. That is just vanilla stupid and anyone suggesting it is vanilla stupid. I have to pay my electric bill or not get electricity. My acceptance of this fact does not somehow magically make my electric bill zero or not a cost I have to pay. Same is true if I accept losing a ship in game for an action I want to pursue. Second, freighter ganking is also made possible by the actions of those who use freighters imprudently and foolishly. If there was nobody being imprudent and foolish freighter ganking would be extremely minimal. Most likely down to NS alliances shooting "hostile" freighters to gimp their enemies HS logistics and/or ransom requests. So this notion is that the one side has learned how to manage their risk and at the same profit form it is therefore all their fault is like blaming someone for getting good at some other aspect of the game. You have figured out a way to make higher profits at invention than other players...why your game should be nerfed. You are being unfair to those who have not figured out what you have figured out. You are stealing some of their profits! Further, those who get ganked are not only imprudent (overloading their freighter) but also foolish. They are foolish because the benefit they get from doing this is actually very small. Even if they were going to go and get 15% return on their 8 billion cargo, that is only 1.2 billion yet they are risking well over 9 billion in assets. The downside risk is substantial relative to only a small upside....especially if ganking is as ubiquitous as Dracvlad and others he would have us believe. If ganking is a high probability scourge in HS, then these players are just down right vanilla stupid. Contrarily Dracvald has argued that no, these players are not dumb. Somehow they are not dumb for doing something with little upside but tremendous downside. How Dracvlad squares this circle I don't know. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5051	Posted - 2016.07.31 21:57:16 - [594] - Quote BTW, everyone in game, implicitly accepts the costs of their actions once they undock. Dracvlad's objection is just irrelevant nonsense. Because using his logic, then nobody should complain irrespective of what they lose because once they undock they have implicitly accepted the costs of losing that ship. Rule #1 in Eve: Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. But not anymore, here come's Dracvlad to change that. Go ahead and do what would have normally been considered sheer stupidity. We should make the game better for BadsGäó....errr casual plaers. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26486	Posted - 2016.07.31 23:14:45 - [595] - Quote ^^ When stupidity is allowed to breed it becomes the norm; Mike Judge made an entertaining film based on that premise, it's called Idiocracy. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Dibz Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 92	Posted - 2016.07.31 23:28:02 - [596] - Quote Fewer users playing
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 690	Posted - 2016.07.31 23:28:49 - [597] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Eve seems to be kind and friendly to gankers. Eve is friendly to many play styles.
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony The Wraithguard. 514	Posted - 2016.07.31 23:48:37 - [598] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: ^^ When stupidity is allowed to breed it becomes the norm; Mike Judge made an entertaining film based on that premise, it's called Idiocracy. Oh, it's supposed to be "entertaining"? I thought it was a documentary.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26488	Posted - 2016.07.31 23:54:06 - [599] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: ^^ When stupidity is allowed to breed it becomes the norm; Mike Judge made an entertaining film based on that premise, it's called Idiocracy. Oh, it's supposed to be "entertaining"? I thought it was a documentary. It's certainly turning into one Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Chewytowel Haklar Flerris Crueler Corporation 229	Posted - 2016.08.01 00:04:52 - [600] - Quote It could be also because you guys are really intelligent and most people in the world have to make due with far less intelligence then you nerds exhibit. Just a thought. So please could you all just be dumber from now on? Just do stupid things and lose your ships and make new players think they are good at the game. Lose your corporations to wannabe spies and let them steal everything and act surprised. Help them all succeed and achieve their wildest dreams. Even with all that I bet they'd still leave and claim they beat the game and there was nothing left to do.

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