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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 10:40:12 -
[1] - Quote
Hello CCP Falcon,
I've read somewhere that you were a pirate or a nullsec pvp player ( something like that ) so I think you can give me an answer about that.
I've given a look to this website link:
https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99002775/
Statistic here says this alliance gained about 30 trillions of isks and lost about 1 trillion isks playing 74% solo.
It's a ratio of 30:1
What's the reason of a so amazing result in your opinion?
I'm very curious to know the reason from a pvp player that became a game developer because the reason is obscure to me. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
325
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 10:48:42 -
[2] - Quote
ISK value: Mainly freighter ganks. Solo to Gang relation: Autopilot podding, shuttle ganking, that kind of stuff.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
1107
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 10:48:49 -
[3] - Quote
1.) If you enter a "fair" fight 2.) You've done it wrong. 3.) ??? 4.) Profit! |
Trevor Dalech
Absolute Obedience Resonance.
245
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 10:49:20 -
[4] - Quote
I'll feed the troll...
Killboards will only show the damaging ships (because that's all they can see) but they are in fact not playing solo.
They have scouts, warp-in alts, intel channels, who all cooperate well together to get one ship in the position to get good kills. Aside from that they solid ship-fitting knowledge, and a manufacturing and logistics base which distributes said ships where they are needed.
it's not solo, you are being outplayed by a well coordinated, highly organised group of players. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
355
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 10:53:30 -
[5] - Quote
Green killboards are for F1 monkeys anyway.
Real solo PvPers with huge man balls, have red in their kbs. Oh, so much red... |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
634
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 10:58:26 -
[6] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Statistic here says this alliance gained about 30 trillions of isks and lost about 1 trillion isks ... How do you calculate that they gained about 30 trillion?
Their entire among destroyed is 33.6 trillion. |
Eladanus
White Sun Enterprises
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 10:59:25 -
[7] - Quote
They're using very cheap ships (Cataylsts and Thrashers) to take down Freighers that are worth (and carrying) billions of ISK.
Worth remembering though that these fights aren't just 1v1, and they aren't exchanging one 10m Catalyst for a 10b Frieghter. Like others have said, the gankers are very organised, have weight of numbers, and aren't actually playing solo much of the time.
The stats don't mean all too much tbh. Any new player with a few weeks of training could hop in a gank ship and go blow up a miner or hauler have a green KB with 100% solo on it. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:00:39 -
[8] - Quote
Actually I've asked the game developer.
I've given a look to all the top pvp alliances and ratios are different, much lower ratios and much much lower solo pvp.
Doing some factional warfare myself on another character I perfectly know how hard is solo pvp and how rare are solo pvpers.
So this so different statistic made me very curious. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:03:28 -
[9] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:Statistic here says this alliance gained about 30 trillions of isks and lost about 1 trillion isks ... How do you calculate that they gained about 30 trillion? Their entire among destroyed is 33.6 trillion.
I'm not expert of gain by destroyed ships, anyway it's the difference between all other alliances that made me so curios.
I correct to "ship destroyed" and "ship lost" if it's something important. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
634
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:04:12 -
[10] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Actually I've asked the game developer.
I've given a look to all the top pvp alliances and ratios are different, much lower ratios and much much lower solo pvp.
Doing some factional warfare myself on another character I perfectly know how hard is solo pvp and how rare are solo pvpers.
So this so different statistic made me very curious. But your understanding of that statistic seems a bit off, if by "gained 30 trillion ISK" you mean that this is an increase in their wallet. It isn't. |
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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
829
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:05:50 -
[11] - Quote
Hulk: ISK280,000,000 (or thereabouts) Catalyst: ISK10,000,000 (or thereabouts)
One Catalyst can solo gank a Hulk in, iirc, 0.7 or below space. That's a 28:1 ISK-Killed:ISK-Lost ratio right there. On loaded up freighters requiring a large number of gankers, or possibly even Talos battlecruisers, the ratio climbs even higher.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
|
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
47
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:06:39 -
[12] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:Actually I've asked the game developer.
I've given a look to all the top pvp alliances and ratios are different, much lower ratios and much much lower solo pvp.
Doing some factional warfare myself on another character I perfectly know how hard is solo pvp and how rare are solo pvpers.
So this so different statistic made me very curious. But your understanding of that statistic seems a bit off, if by "gained 30 trillion ISK" you mean that this is an increase in their wallet. It isn't.
mmm ok I was not referring to any wallet.
I was referring to ratios/solo compared to other top pvp alliances.
A game developer that did pvp can surely tell me why they are so much better than others on the statistics I think.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17691
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:07:58 -
[13] - Quote
Also to point out, they have not made the profit you think they have.
For example, their most blingy kill this month was worth 17,732,100,569.54 isk of which only 385,597.18 ISK dropped |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
634
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:11:32 -
[14] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:Actually I've asked the game developer.
I've given a look to all the top pvp alliances and ratios are different, much lower ratios and much much lower solo pvp.
Doing some factional warfare myself on another character I perfectly know how hard is solo pvp and how rare are solo pvpers.
So this so different statistic made me very curious. But your understanding of that statistic seems a bit off, if by "gained 30 trillion ISK" you mean that this is an increase in their wallet. It isn't. mmm ok I was not referring to any wallet. I was referring to ratios/solo compared to other top pvp alliances. A game developer that did pvp can surely tell me why they are so much better than others on the statistics I think. They are successful in destroying large amounts of ISK because people in highsec carry valuable cargo in under tanked and under supported haulers and/or under tanked, expensive ships.
They target high value kills and find plenty of them because people make choices to provide them with a lot of suitable targets.
In other areas of space (and other people in highsec too) are more careful with the risk they expose themselves to. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
846
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:12:09 -
[15] - Quote
All statistics are well arbitrary measurements of a human creation to measure something. Be they cubits or feet or meters someone created them and someone will create a better metric. This is simple an arbitrary measuring stick that humans created to measure progress or something, anything really they wanted to. And one is just as effective as another but ALL are illusions... nothing more.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Erebus Vain
State War Academy Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:15:22 -
[16] - Quote
Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:1.) If you enter a "fair" fight 2.) You've done it wrong. 3.) ??? 4.) Profit!
"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - John Steinbeck |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:19:49 -
[17] - Quote
Erebus Vain wrote:Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:1.) If you enter a "fair" fight 2.) You've done it wrong. 3.) ??? 4.) Profit! "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - John Steinbeck
All other alliances have totally different ratios playing gang ( that should be much more effective), I don't think their tactic suck.
Game developers develope the game, so they are surely the best ones that can interpretate and give me an answer.
And CCP Falcon was a pvper if I am correct so he's the best person that can give me an answer gamewise.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13951
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:20:13 -
[18] - Quote
Because of Falcon.
But seriously, we got CSM because some develper was so kind as to give his friends in game tech 2 blueprints.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve_Online wrote: Developer misconduct
Instances of developer misconduct in Eve Online have been substantiated, leading to debates and controversy. On February 9, 2007, a player known as Kugutsumen hacked an enemy corporation's private forum to find out and reveal that Eve Online developer t20 had provided his corporation, Reikoku, with six valuable blueprints, giving them an advantage over competing corporations.[132] Some within the Eve Online community asked for t20's dismissal. While an apology letter was left for the community in the form of a dev blog, he remained an Eve Online developer until late 2008. Kugutsumen was permanently banned from the Eve Online universe for violating the game's terms of service and end-user license agreement by revealing t20's real name.[133]
In response to public concerns, CCP decided to set up an internal affairs division whose responsibility is to monitor the activities of both privileged and player accounts operated by CCP staff in-game.[134]
I think you will have to get more proof for accusations. Now its just a rumor mongering and thread will be closed.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Eladanus
White Sun Enterprises
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:28:14 -
[19] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
I was referring to ratios/solo compared to other top pvp alliances.
CODE. isn't like other top pvp alliances that you'll see listed on there. CODE. are primarilly just a high-sec alliance that specialise in killing solo miners and haulers, using small ships to kill expensive targets.
The other alliances on the top 10 list, including Goonswarm, Pandemic Legion, Test, etc. are all low-sec or null-sec alliances that don't fight solo. Instead, they fight groups of 20+ against eachother, all in expensive cruisers, HACs, battleships and capital ships. These cost more and they lose more, meaning that thier kill:loss ratio won't be as good, and their solo numbers will be comparatively lower. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
296
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:30:33 -
[20] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:I think you will have to get more proof for accusations. Now its just a rumor mongering and thread will be closed. Nobody has made any "accusations" that I am aware of...?
Or are you saying they aren't even killing real players, a certain CCP employee who I'm not going to name here (because you all keep saying his name) is spawning npc freighters for them? That seems rather unlikely... |
|
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
296
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:31:26 -
[21] - Quote
Eladanus wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:
I was referring to ratios/solo compared to other top pvp alliances.
CODE. isn't like other top pvp alliances that you'll see listed on there. CODE. are primarilly just a high-sec alliance that specialise in killing solo miners and haulers, using small ships to kill expensive targets. The other alliances on the top 10 list, including Goonswarm, Pandemic Legion, Test, etc. are all low-sec or null-sec alliances that don't fight solo. Instead, they fight groups of 20+ against eachother, all in expensive cruisers, HACs, battleships and capital ships. These cost more and they lose more, meaning that thier kill:loss ratio won't be as good, and their solo numbers will be comparatively lower. You forgot a 0 or two in your fleet sizes there... |
Erebus Vain
State War Academy Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:32:57 -
[22] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Erebus Vain wrote:Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:1.) If you enter a "fair" fight 2.) You've done it wrong. 3.) ??? 4.) Profit! "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - John Steinbeck All other alliances have totally different ratios playing gang ( that should be much more effective), I don't think their tactic suck. Game developers develope the game, so they are surely the best ones that can interpretate and give me an answer. And CCP Falcon was a pvper if I am correct so he's the best person that can give me an answer gamewise.
This wasn't a comment on your post as much as a complimentary comment to the other person comment. Although the statement is still true and stands up in any situations where tactics are involved against an opponent. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13951
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:33:02 -
[23] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:I think you will have to get more proof for accusations. Now its just a rumor mongering and thread will be closed. Nobody has made any "accusations" that I am aware of...? Or are you saying they aren't even killing real players, a certain CCP employee who I'm not going to name here (because you all keep saying his name) is spawning npc freighters for them? That seems rather unlikely... Not spawning freighters. If certain alliance would get special treatment as to get data for their operations, from CPP developer, that would be something different however.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
634
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:36:49 -
[24] - Quote
Is it a full moon at the moment?
Conspiracy theories now? |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13953
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:41:42 -
[25] - Quote
This doesnt really need conspiracy theory, as it can be easily noticed that CODE was only exploiting the system to his advantage, something that Falcon is aware of, as is the rest of community. Falcon giving his vocal approval for such mechanics only provoked some player to direct question to him.
Ties from CODE to Falcon are yet to be uncovered if one wants to indulge himself into conspiracy.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:43:15 -
[26] - Quote
Honestly think many answers are off-topic here.
I simply asked about the reasons of a so amazing ratio of 1:30 compared to other very different ratios for the other top pvp alliances, in particular seeing about a wonderful 74% of solo kills ( I'm studying fittings of FW players and the best solo ratios I find are about 40% and with not comparable ratios at all). |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13953
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:45:23 -
[27] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Honestly think many answers are off-topic here.
I simply asked about the reasons of a so amazing ratio of 1:30 compared to other very different ratios for the other top pvp alliances, in particular seeing about a wonderful 74% of solo kills ( I'm studying fittings of FW players and the best solo ratios I find are about 40% and with not comparable ratios at all). I thought you are about to unveil something...
I am dissapointed.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
297
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:46:03 -
[28] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:This doesnt really need conspiracy theory, as it can be easily noticed that CODE was only exploiting the system to his advantage, something that Falcon is aware of, as is the rest of community. Falcon giving his vocal approval for such mechanics only provoked some player to direct question to him.
Ties from CODE to Falcon are yet to be uncovered if one wants to indulge himself into conspiracy. CCP Falcon's stance towards ganking was the same long before CODE came onto the scene...
I think you'd be better off sticking to complaining about the mechanics and not trying to craft devious conspiracy theories - they are just going to make you look like a crazy person. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
634
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:46:31 -
[29] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Honestly think many answers are off-topic here.
I simply asked about the reasons of a so amazing ratio of 1:30 compared to other very different ratios for the other top pvp alliances, in particular seeing about a wonderful 74% of solo kills ( I'm studying fittings of FW players and the best solo ratios I find are about 40% and with not comparable ratios at all). FW is not highsec ganking.
You aren't going to get anywhere near 30:1 ISK ratios in lowsec. Everyone is there to fight and use far less valuable ships than people risk in highsec. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:49:39 -
[30] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:Honestly think many answers are off-topic here.
I simply asked about the reasons of a so amazing ratio of 1:30 compared to other very different ratios for the other top pvp alliances, in particular seeing about a wonderful 74% of solo kills ( I'm studying fittings of FW players and the best solo ratios I find are about 40% and with not comparable ratios at all). I thought you are about to unveil something... I am dissapointed. Not many scandals these days.
No, I'm not unveiling anything.
I was partecipating and reading topics that were recently closed and I saw some of the harder answers were from players of an alliance, so I gave a look to that alliance ( I'm used to use zkill for searching fittings of the best solo FW players ) and comparing their ratios to other top pvp alliances I saw they are completely different.
So I'm asking the opinion of a Game developer that I've read was a pvper.
Nothing more, nothing less. |
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
297
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:49:46 -
[31] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Honestly think many answers are off-topic here.
I simply asked about the reasons of a so amazing ratio of 1:30 compared to other very different ratios for the other top pvp alliances, in particular seeing about a wonderful 74% of solo kills ( I'm studying fittings of FW players and the best solo ratios I find are about 40% and with not comparable ratios at all). The ratio is because as suicide gankers they are able to pick their targets to maximize isk efficiency (when they want to). As they can't be in space without being shot, they don't sit out in space when they aren't actively attacking something - so you can't attack them unless you are lucky enough to catch one changing systems to get to their next target.
Therefore almost 100% of their battles are of their own choosing, and they have made (nearly) 100% sure of success before engaging.
This skews their killboard stats to a very positive ratio.
No other group in EVE is 100% devoted to suicide ganking in this way, so other groups have to rely on finding targets they can legally shoot and then engaging them on (more) even footing, risking losses on their own side as they do so. And the groups that minimize risk to get similar isk ratios (see some of the big wardec corps) take longer to get to those numbers, because they still have to wait for legal war targets.
Mystery solved. |
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
829
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:51:40 -
[32] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Honestly think many answers are off-topic here.
I simply asked about the reasons of a so amazing ratio of 1:30 compared to other very different ratios for the other top pvp alliances, in particular seeing about a wonderful 74% of solo kills ( I'm studying fittings of FW players and the best solo ratios I find are about 40% and with not comparable ratios at all).
It's amazing how one can rack up one's solo kill stats when one chooses squishy targets that can't shoot back.
We're not talking about 1337 peeveepee 1v1 at the sun gudfight style combat here. We're talking about hisec SUICIDE GANKING.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13954
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:56:43 -
[33] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:This doesnt really need conspiracy theory, as it can be easily noticed that CODE was only exploiting the system to his advantage, something that Falcon is aware of, as is the rest of community. Falcon giving his vocal approval for such mechanics only provoked some player to direct question to him.
Ties from CODE to Falcon are yet to be uncovered if one wants to indulge himself into conspiracy. CCP Falcon's stance towards ganking was the same long before CODE came onto the scene... I think you'd be better off sticking to complaining about the mechanics and not trying to craft devious conspiracy theories - they are just going to make you look like a crazy person. But I am a little crazy.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1932
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 11:59:54 -
[34] - Quote
OK, a lot of kills are on very squishy targets, like mining frigates, Covertors, Retreivers, Hulks and Mac's, all those can be taken down with one or two Catalysts, one if the person has fitted for yield.
The freighter ganks make up based on number of freighters x 3.5bn about 13% of the Goons entire ISK value in terms of kills, I did that calculation earlier today when speaking to a contact about Goons use of freighter ganking to make their killboard look more reasonable.
If you look at the ship ratio it is 57.7%, if you look at the ISK ratio it is 70%, that means that their actual ISk efficiency is really 63%.
And if you did that analysts with recent events you will find the goons are running at around 40% efficiency over the last year.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:14:34 -
[35] - Quote
I'm not receiving any answer from the developer, I saw him posting so I hoped for an answer. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
635
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:18:02 -
[36] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I'm not receiving any answer from the developer, I saw him posting so I hoped for an answer. The forum isn't a personal messaging service to CCP employees, nor is CCP Falcon the only person who can answer the question you asked.
There are several correct answers in the thread already. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13954
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:18:55 -
[37] - Quote
Dont you think that Falcon may be a little more cereful what he writes now, because he knows that his words will be used against him?
And yes, he wouldnt really write something new.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Yarosara Ruil
493
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:22:26 -
[38] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Honestly think many answers are off-topic here.
I simply asked about the reasons of a so amazing ratio of 1:30 compared to other very different ratios for the other top pvp alliances, in particular seeing about a wonderful 74% of solo kills ( I'm studying fittings of FW players and the best solo ratios I find are about 40% and with not comparable ratios at all).
Because CODE are risk adverse?
You can be risk adverse and still lose ships and ISK. Most of CODE has figured out the math on how to maximize their ganking attempts for maximum loss on the defender side with minimum loss on the agressor side.
They moan and hiss about the "one more nerf" narrative they got going now. Is it true? Not really, since CCP is beating around the bush to maintain the fragile ecosystem they have in Highsec. Highsec exists currently as a deterrent, so that new players are herded to the real game, that being either Nullsec, Lowsec or Wormhole space (despite CCP's past atempts to make life in there impossible). So technically, Highsec is not the real EVE experience. It's barely a tutorial level. Now we just have to convince the vast majority of the player base that this is the case.
Now, imagine an enemy who's sole joy in life is to make others miserable. Their entire raison d'etre is to cause as much damage as possible, while losing as little as possible. That's CODE right now. Their enjoyment from the game comes from the little cereal box badges of honor they get when they gank someone, the Killmails, and the strife they cause to other people's EVE experience. The more tears and rage they cause, the more success they have as a ganker.
This leads to untold levels of toxicity. To a ganker, a member of CODE, other players aren't part of a community themselves are part of. They are prey. Less than human beings. Pawns in their game to be exploited and disposed of, and watch them squirm as they are hopelessly preyed upon. For every heart warming story of how awesome this community is, there are a dozen untold stories about how low the community can slump into thanks to genetlemen like CODE. Their minerbumping site is a testament to how deranged they are in this roleplaying experience they engage themselves in.
The recently ganked Luxury Yatch with hundreds of injectors inside? There were people salivating at the potencial salt of such a loss. When the owner of the Yatch shrugged it off, people were flabbergasted. Robbed even, of the drama potential of a mental breakdown from this person.
I for one think that the existence of Killmails are the sole cause of this. No other game catalogues losses like this and allow for such ridicule and coveting of battle records. Killmails are a cancer, that motivate people to pursue no other goal in the game other than getting more of them, and their worth as players is measured in the amount of green they have in their records. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:25:11 -
[39] - Quote
You all are telling me:
- This alliance plays in almost exclusively High Security
- They can use a 10 mil ship to kill a 280 mil ship easily
- They can decide targets and kill them with no risks and no problem.
Statistic says:
- They killed about 30 trillions of ships and lost about 1 trillion of ships value.
- They did it with a 74% or solo ratio.
I think all of this deserves an answer from a Developer, if Falcon or not it's the same, I've read he was a pirate so I suppose he knows the reasons better than anyone else ( maybe he was in that alliance too, I really don't know). |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17691
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:25:24 -
[40] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:This doesnt really need conspiracy theory, as it can be easily noticed that CODE was only exploiting the system to his advantage, something that Falcon is aware of, as is the rest of community. Falcon giving his vocal approval for such mechanics only provoked some player to direct question to him.
Ties from CODE to Falcon are yet to be uncovered if one wants to indulge himself into conspiracy.
Only thing being exploited here is other peoples greed and stupidity. |
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17691
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:26:29 -
[41] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:You all are telling me:
- This alliance plays in almost exclusively High Security
- They can use a 10 mil ship to kill a 280 mil ship easily
- They can decide targets and kill them with no risks and no problem.
Statistic says:
- They killed about 30 trillions of ships and lost about 1 trillion of ships value.
- They did it with a 74% or solo ratio.
I think all of this deserves an answer from a Developer, if Falcon or not it's the same, I've read he was a pirate so I suppose he knows the reasons better than anyone else ( maybe he was in that alliance too, I really don't know).
The answer is simple.
They target the greedy and stupid in highsec. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1932
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:26:33 -
[42] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I'm not receiving any answer from the developer, I saw him posting so I hoped for an answer.
You would be better off doing a thread on Reddit to be honest.
PS Ignore baltec1, he was whining the other day about it not being profitable to gank T2 fitted mining ships
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
636
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:41:12 -
[43] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:You all are telling me:
- This alliance plays in almost exclusively High Security
- They can use a 10 mil ship to kill a 280 mil ship easily
- They can decide targets and kill them with no risks and no problem.
Statistic says:
- They killed about 30 trillions of ships and lost about 1 trillion of ships value.
- They did it with a 74% or solo ratio.
I think all of this deserves an answer from a Developer, if Falcon or not it's the same, I've read he was a pirate so I suppose he knows the reasons better than anyone else ( maybe he was in that alliance too, I really don't know). You're just fishing for a comment to confirm your own bias, or to be outraged over.
The efficiency of CODE isn't achieved alone. It requires people to do stupid things. Unfortunately, lots of people do those stupid things, so really they get the consequence they walk into. Those people are every bit as involved in CODE's success as CODE is. |
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
2983
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:43:30 -
[44] - Quote
Well, I'm wondering what's in the Kool Aid at this point.
Why the high ratio of success? They scan their targets. They know their fits. They know their routes. They plan accordingly. They organize. They control when and where the fight happens. So the end result is predictably one sided. The autopiloting badger loses to the catalyst the moment the cat opens fire. it's already been decided because the defensive measures the badger could have taken have not been taken.
You can't really compare it to lowsec FW, it's a whole different animal. You don't need a dev to tell you this, hell, you shouldn't even need me to tell you this. It's not unfair, and to be honest any kind of passive aggressive defense of derps who're too busy watching netflix or pr0nhub is not merited.
They win because of stupid, lazy and greedy.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13954
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:44:02 -
[45] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:You all are telling me:
- This alliance plays in almost exclusively High Security
- They can use a 10 mil ship to kill a 280 mil ship easily
- They can decide targets and kill them with no risks and no problem.
Statistic says:
- They killed about 30 trillions of ships and lost about 1 trillion of ships value.
- They did it with a 74% or solo ratio.
I think all of this deserves an answer from a Developer, if Falcon or not it's the same, I've read he was a pirate so I suppose he knows the reasons better than anyone else ( maybe he was in that alliance too, I really don't know). The answer is simple. They target the greedy and stupid in highsec. Dont be so sure about that.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17694
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:44:24 -
[46] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: but he will never be moderated.
That's because I post realities and don't insult people. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:44:48 -
[47] - Quote
I'm pretty new to the game, only about half a year.
I tried wh exploration the most, some fw, and some mining, mostly hisec and some gas wh huffing.
Game mechanics are quite balanced for what I saw so far.
So I was pretty curious about this very weird ratio and even more curious because I saw players from this alliance being very hard ( I called them even racists ) when writing on forums.
If they have so big advantages from the players they kill ( and it's the only thing they do when playing ) why they keep insulting them?
They should be so happy for the chance they have.
This made me extremely curious, this it the reason I would like to know a Game Developer opinion about it. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14352
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:45:25 -
[48] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote: They are successful in destroying large amounts of ISK because people in highsec carry valuable cargo in under tanked and under supported haulers and/or under tanked, expensive ships.
They target high value kills and find plenty of them because people make choices to provide them with a lot of suitable targets.
In other areas of space (and other people in highsec too) are more careful with the risk they expose themselves to.
+1
The above is as obvious and plain as the nose on your avatars face. And using the very simple tactics and awareness the rest of New Eden that isn't high sec forces you to use, it's very easy to live in high sec and suffer no losses to groups like CODE. My own losses to CODE are summed up as "1 shuttle and 2 pods", even after spending years running missions in a Deadpsace fit Machariel.
But if you explain this to many a high sec player, you won't just get ignored, you will get active resistance at the very idea. "I'm in HIGH SECURITY SPACE!!" They exclaim. "These people shouldn't be able to do what they do in the 1st place!" they whine. "CCP hates my play style!" they cry.
Being ignorant and unaware of your situation while at the same time playing a video game and progressing is not a "play style" btw. Afk haulers and miners are progressing while afk btw, this is the un-discussed root of the entire problem in high sec, it's the real reason why CODE exists, the people who started CODE mask their efforts behind a vale of "we want tears" and "we are doing this for your own good", but the real reason for CODE is it gives people a avenue to strike out against and punish the kinds of people who come in to the game and treat it like it's other MMOs, like the game/CCP/the community 'owes them something'.
I figured that out within 5 minutes of talking to a friend of mine in CODE, yet the vast swath of high sec players have never gotten so much as a glimmer of the truth. Oh well, that's just proof that you can't fix stupid.
|
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
978
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:45:40 -
[49] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
A game developer that did pvp can surely tell me why they are so much better than others on the statistics I think.
There are three kinds of lies.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also, Falcon isn't a dev (that I am aware of) he's the community manager.
Finally, you've been give the reason in the apparent discrepancy. CODE specifically targets very expensive targets in very cheap ships. See here's the rub - the amount of ISK required to kill a freighter doesn't change if the value of the freighter's cargo changes. The "investment" if you will remains more or less constant, while the "return" on that investment (at least in terms of kb stats) can vary wildly.
Take this kill. 30 Talos, all in with fittings, is probably 2.5 billion. That's a ratio of roughly 7 to 1.
The reason you don't see the same sort of figures for other alliances is because they have other activities, such as sov war, that are usually much closer to a 1 to 1 ratio in terms of ISK destroyed versus ISK lost. CODE avoids all that drag on their KB efficiency. The occasional juicy pod also helps push that ratio even higher. This one was roughly 27 to 1.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17694
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:45:42 -
[50] - Quote
Equally they are not a profit making organisation, they are more like terrorists. |
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1932
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:46:52 -
[51] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote: but he will never be moderated. That's because I post realities and don't insult people.
You insult people all the time, you just post it in such a way that you get given the benefit of the doubt all the time.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14352
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:50:49 -
[52] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:You all are telling me:
- This alliance plays in almost exclusively High Security
- They can use a 10 mil ship to kill a 280 mil ship easily
- They can decide targets and kill them with no risks and no problem.
Statistic says:
- They killed about 30 trillions of ships and lost about 1 trillion of ships value.
- They did it with a 74% or solo ratio.
I think all of this deserves an answer from a Developer, if Falcon or not it's the same, I've read he was a pirate so I suppose he knows the reasons better than anyone else ( maybe he was in that alliance too, I really don't know). The answer is simple. They target the greedy and stupid in highsec. Dont be so sure about that.
Pilots of empty frieghters can also be stupid. Many follow the stupid line of thinking of "oh, my frighten is safe because it's empty, i will just auto-pilot it back to jita, no one will bother it.
That's stupid thinking because it violates the simple rule of "if it's in space it's vulnerable, so don't ever fly what you can't afford to lose".
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17696
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:50:55 -
[53] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote: but he will never be moderated. That's because I post realities and don't insult people. You insult people all the time, you just post it in such a way that you get given the benefit of the doubt all the time.
If I don't get moderated but you do its more likely you are the one causing the problems. I have exactly zero influence over the mods around here other than possibly having had a pint and a chat with them at some point. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13954
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:52:04 -
[54] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Equally they are not a profit making organisation, they are more like terrorists. Terrorism is not about targeting greedy and stupid. Its about spreading fear and terror, hence the term Terrorism. Please be exact next time and post they are just terrorists.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1932
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:55:43 -
[55] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote: but he will never be moderated. That's because I post realities and don't insult people. You insult people all the time, you just post it in such a way that you get given the benefit of the doubt all the time. If I don't get moderated but you do its more likely you are the one causing the problems. I have exactly zero influence over the mods around here other than possibly having had a pint and a chat with them at some point.
Yes that one, its enough..., but actually I have a major suspicion about who you really are, if that is true you really ought to be more careful.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
|
embrel
BamBam Inc.
280
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:57:32 -
[56] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I'm not receiving any answer from the developer, I saw him posting so I hoped for an answer.
as someone already stated: the answer to your questions is in the thread. The problem seems IMO that you do/did not really understand what Code is.
So, no use for a dev wasting his time. |
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
2984
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:57:58 -
[57] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:baltec1 wrote:Equally they are not a profit making organisation, they are more like terrorists. Terrorism is not about targeting greedy and stupid. Its about spreading fear and terror, hence the term Terrorism. Please be exact next time and post they are just terrorists.
Assassins of Joy? Punishers of the Inattentive? Darwin's Stinky Pinky? "You done goofed"?
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14352
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:58:13 -
[58] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
If I don't get moderated but you do its more likely you are the one causing the problems.
No No No, it must be some conspiracy!!!! That's the only thing that explains it! |
Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD. Bullets Bombs and Blondes
137
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 12:59:05 -
[59] - Quote
"Now, imagine an enemy who's sole joy in life is to make others miserable. Their entire raison d'etre is to cause as much damage as possible, while losing as little as possible. That's CODE right now. Their enjoyment from the game comes from the little cereal box badges of honor they get when they gank someone, the Killmails, and the strife they cause to other people's EVE experience. The more tears and rage they cause, the more success they have as a ganker."
lol
The "cereal box badge of honor" is funny
It left me visualizing a player/ganker opening a loot container and exclaiming "WTS! all that effort and all I get is a stupid decoder ring"
Thanks for the laugh with my morning coffee
Max
Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never.
Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
|
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:00:21 -
[60] - Quote
embrel wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:I'm not receiving any answer from the developer, I saw him posting so I hoped for an answer. as someone already stated: the answer to your questions is in the thread. The problem seems IMO that you do/did not really understand what Code is. So, no use for a dev wasting his time.
I don't think a Developer is wasting time when giving and answer to a question (unless it's an incredibly stupid question, but here isk numbers are so incredibly huge and the ratio is so incredibly high I think the question is not stupid).
|
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1932
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:01:29 -
[61] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:baltec1 wrote:
If I don't get moderated but you do its more likely you are the one causing the problems.
No No No, it must be some conspiracy!!!! That's the only thing that explains it!
LOL and I saw you doing yet another I am so wonderful post. By the way your deadspace fitted Macherial was perfectly safe from CODE they hardly ever gank mission runners. I know you have me blocked, but its fun to point out just how far off base you are yet again....
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13954
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:06:56 -
[62] - Quote
High sec terrorissm, is destructive, nothing constructive, like a trolling on forums, here ISD locks the posts that are too trolish or non constructive, something like that in game keeps functioning. CCP dont seem to bother with eliminating high sec terrorism, even when its something destructive and on such scale, and in real world it is severely punished and tried to be eliminated everywhere it appears. If they really think its real world science fiction, they should make more to punish those terrorists. But for now they cant construct system without overdestructive element. This is bad.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
2985
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:11:49 -
[63] - Quote
Drac, you know I don't have anything against you. I agree with some of your views and disagree with some others. That said, you've been abnormally aggro over the last day. Are you okay? I mean it could just be drunkposting, and god do I know about that.... but it almost seems like someone put Icy Hot in your Preparation H.
I only ask because you normally seem relatively level headed when it comes to the whole 'not being killed' issues... whereas these gankling and war threads that have popped up over the last day have been tinfoil ridden and your approach has been nothing short of heated.
Just concerned.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17699
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:12:24 -
[64] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
Yes that one, its enough..., but actually I have a major suspicion about who you really are, if that is true you really ought to be more careful.
This should be fun. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:15:12 -
[65] - Quote
Please don't make this post locked disputing.
I'm about numbers:
Is 1 trillion 1000 billions?
So basically an alliance destroyed 30.000 billions of ships losing 1.000 billions of ships.
If a plex or month subscription is about 1 bil, they destroyed 30.000 plexes losing only 1.000 plexes.
If you convert in money it should be about 600.000 dollars of plexes value? Losing 30.000 dollars value?
Am I correct? Half a million dollars value?
It's a too huge amount of money for me, it's abnormal in my opinion.
And it's done 74% solo, making it even more incredible. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1932
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:16:21 -
[66] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:High sec terrorissm, is destructive, nothing constructive, like a trolling on forums, here ISD locks the posts that are too trolish or non constructive, something like that in game keeps functioning. CCP dont seem to bother with eliminating high sec terrorism, even when its something destructive and on such scale, and in real world it is severely punished and tried to be eliminated everywhere it appears. If they really think its real world science fiction, they should make more to punish those terrorists. But for now they cant construct system without overdestructive element. This is bad.
CCP have lost a lot of players from this, I come across ex-eve players who were the prey type all the time, I spoke to another one today that played Eve for 9 years and gave up at the height of the mining ships having the tank of a wet paper bag.
The question is how niche does CCP went to make it, players like me like the challenge of playing a tough game, but it gets boring after a while because to be blunt players like me get bored at just how lame they the gankers and player killers really are. They can do absolutely nothing against me, war decs ganks, nothing.
The fact is I am at a level that I control my risk, I lost one ship to gankers, and that was Russian gankers when I was shooting them, it was a Thrasher. It is not hard to defeat these players.
The thing is they prey on stupid and lazy players, they are not wrong on this, however there are many mechanics that actually help them, be it from loot scooping to bumping, they are great at using them.
But the issue is that this game is becoming too niche, its ending up with difficult to kill players like me, gankers, griefers, scammers, market traders, power gamers and player killers only, and all of them are risk averse, so in the end it is getting more and more boring.
Then you ahve the structural issues around accounts, so that you try to build something and in comes a spy who then wrecks your alliance from the inside, so the game is full of sloth and inactivity based on its structure and player base activities.
Personally I am losing faith that there is any way back from this and the closing of those earlier threads was a symptom of that.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17701
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:16:33 -
[67] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:baltec1 wrote:Equally they are not a profit making organisation, they are more like terrorists. Terrorism is not about targeting greedy and stupid. Its about spreading fear and terror, hence the term Terrorism. Please be exact next time and post they are just terrorists.
Thats exactly what they target.
Code started out as a protest to nerfs to barge ganking, over the years it has evolved as more and more nerfs have landed. Now they are practically role playing a religion where they view to greedy and daft bear in highsec as the devil and try to purge what they see as the unclean.
This once protest group now fanatical terrorist group are now more or less the only risk left in highsec, which in itself is rather upsetting. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
978
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:18:16 -
[68] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote: I'm about numbers:
And I posted some, which you didn't bother responding to.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
|
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
2986
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:21:34 -
[69] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Please don't make this post locked disputing.
I'm about numbers:
Is 1 trillion 1000 billions?
So basically an alliance destroyed 30.000 billions of ships losing 1.000 billions of ships.
If a plex or month subscription is about 1 bil, they destroyed 30.000 plexes losing only 1.000 plexes.
If you convert in money it should be about 600.000 dollars of plexes value? Losing 30.000 dollars value?
Am I correct? Half a million dollars value?
It's a too huge amount of money for me, it's abnormal in my opinion.
And it's done 74% solo, making it even more incredible. They did. Because their targets were not paying attention or putting forth any effort to defend themselves. ISK value is not a tank and never will be. I've personally destroyed ships worth over a billion with ships that were worth less than 40 million, solo. More than once. And I'm not really that good at EVE. For me, it was betting on stupid and arrogant. It's a pretty safe bet, especially if you put a target in front of them that any rational mind without any clue regarding game mechanics would consider an easy kill.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Memphis Baas
1805
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:22:52 -
[70] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Teorism is [...] about spreading fear and terror, hence the term.
Since this thread is going places, seems to me that the recent attacks have caused pain, loss, charity, solidarity, and major anger at the attackers. I haven't seen fear and terror anywhere.
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17701
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:24:20 -
[71] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote: I haven't seen fear and terror anywhere.
Endless calls to nerf ganking where the fear and terror is |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
280
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:25:50 -
[72] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:embrel wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:I'm not receiving any answer from the developer, I saw him posting so I hoped for an answer. as someone already stated: the answer to your questions is in the thread. The problem seems IMO that you do/did not really understand what Code is. So, no use for a dev wasting his time. I don't think a Developer is wasting time when giving and answer to a question (unless it's an incredibly stupid question, but here isk numbers are so incredibly huge and the ratio is so incredibly high I think the question is not stupid).
your insistence on it being answered by a dev when the answer was already stated and is obvious besides is a bit stupid indeed.
Eve is a game where many questions can be asked and it needs kind of a special snowflake to assume that their questions are worth dev-time. |
Memphis Baas
1805
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:26:58 -
[73] - Quote
Really? I thought everyone hated CODE. Pretty sure they're not feared. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14352
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:29:31 -
[74] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:High sec terrorissm, is destructive, nothing constructive, like a trolling on forums, here ISD locks the posts that are too trolish or non constructive, something like that in game keeps functioning. CCP dont seem to bother with eliminating high sec terrorism, even when its something destructive and on such scale, and in real world it is severely punished and tried to be eliminated everywhere it appears. If they really think its real world science fiction, they should make more to punish those terrorists. But for now they cant construct system without overdestructive element. This is bad.
Again, if it bothers you this much, if you hate a core aspect of EVE that much (and you are talking about a core aspect, EVE has been a game of bastards since day 1), WHY are you still here?
It's not going to change, nor should it because the stuff you are complaining about is a part of the reason why EVE is still here while most "please be nice to each other or we will ban you" MMOs died within 3-4 years of launch.
Even for those of us who don't partake in the Bastardry (personally I despise ganking, scamming, stealing, awoxxing and everything like that so I don't do those things), learning to survive in that kind of environment is what makes the game fun. When CCP nerfs the interesting people (like those Terrorists, called CODE, and yes, Terrorism is ok in a game, because it's a game), they are really nerfing those of us who NEED the interesting people to play against.
And all for what, so lazy people can afk in peace? Screw that nonsense.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17703
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:31:37 -
[75] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Really? I thought everyone hated CODE. Pretty sure they're not feared.
Thats true of every terrorist organisation. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1933
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:37:07 -
[76] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Drac, you know I don't have anything against you. I agree with some of your views and disagree with some others. That said, you've been abnormally aggro over the last day. Are you okay? I mean it could just be drunkposting, and god do I know about that.... but it almost seems like someone put Icy Hot in your Preparation H.
I only ask because you normally seem relatively level headed when it comes to the whole 'not being killed' issues... whereas these gankling and war threads that have popped up over the last day have been tinfoil ridden and your approach has been nothing short of heated.
Just concerned.
Don't be, I don't like two players here in particular, guess which ones . I guess I am getting tired at them being so lame with their digs and wind ups and using Alinsky tactics and all to shut up debate. So I am pointing it out, I expect a forum ban soon for hurting their tender feelings.
The issue about consequences is a valid one, there is no real consequence, and that post by CCP Falcon set my teeth on edge in a major way. To be blunt I reckon he regrets making that post and that is why the lock thread hammer is coming down hard and fast, that in itself was well rather disturbing.
I wish more people were like you, Ralph and Dirty Forum Alt, even Shae on a good day with a following wind, But I guess another part of it is boredom at trying to talk in a sensible way with people who are trolling with attack posts and the like, so it gets more difficult to be even handed in a discussion when they do that, which is why they do it.
I am writing a book at the moment for my own pleasure, I think I better get back to that. Thanks for the heads up and I will now drop gracefully from the forums for a couple of days.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
|
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
2988
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:39:26 -
[77] - Quote
Forum ECM best ECM. I could be doing murder right now, but instead I'm typing on here.
Jenn, have you heard the holy gospel of suspect baiting? I have pamphlets. It's guilt-free PVP... they choose to shoot. You walk away with a clean conscience, and a wicked adrenaline rush :)
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17074
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:47:48 -
[78] - Quote
confirming, its like fishing for people with a Hubris lure.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
ISD Max Trix
isd community communications liaisons
285
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:49:30 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Falcon has outlined his thoughts on EVE Here. If you have a suggestion on improving a game mechanic please feel free to post it in Player Features and Ideas.
A note on Kill boards: Zkillboard is a third party site. CCP does not endorse any third party site and can not contest to its accuracy.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
297
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:52:09 -
[80] - Quote
To anyone who hasn't figured it out yet:
The OP doesn't want the actual answer to his question.
He wants "an answer" from CCP for something he perceives as an outrage. This is just a passive-aggressive troll thread directed at CCP Falcon - hampered by the poor wording and refusal to elaborate by the OP.
Similarly, I could demand "an answer" as to how the monstrous L4 Mission Runners and Incursioners have a 99% efficiency rating against those poor NPC's, while most solo combat pilots have less than a 50% kill:death ratio...
Or I could demand "an answer" as to how those cheating miners can have a 99.999% success ratio in their murderous battle against the harmless asteroids/ice rocks/gas clouds...Only losing ships when outside, non-resource entities intervene...
The literal "answer" to these questions is painfully simple, even to a child - he is after a different sort of "answer"...
PS: Passive aggressive rarely works on internet forums - you would safe yourself a lot of time/effort if you just took the direct approach and said you think it is broken and should be changed. Either way though, your thread will be locked, and you aren't going to get what you want.
PPS: I bet I offended some of you with my examples. Passive aggressive questions like this tend to do that. Now think about the fact that you are similarly pissing off at least one member of CCP and making him even less likely to ever take you seriously. Way to be counter-productive OP. |
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
299
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 13:57:13 -
[81] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Forum ECM best ECM. I could be doing murder right now, but instead I'm typing on here.
Jenn, have you heard the holy gospel of suspect baiting? I have pamphlets. It's guilt-free PVP... they choose to shoot. You walk away with a clean conscience, and a wicked adrenaline rush :) I do love suspect baiting. For the true adrenaline rush you need to hold yourself to a certain standard and not up-ship or bring in alts to help yourself unless they go crazy in over-shipping/blobbing you though - at least for me I only get the adrenaline rush if there is a fairly real chance I might lose if they play their cards right.
Also as people are people, and this is EVE - I do find they still always try to make you feel guilty when you win. They can blob you 5-10v1 and if you just barely win they'll guilt trip you over picking on "noobs" like them...though their attempts to brag if they win are almost as bad. I generally just ignore the local chat for the most part lol. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13955
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:01:35 -
[82] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:baltec1 wrote:Equally they are not a profit making organisation, they are more like terrorists. Terrorism is not about targeting greedy and stupid. Its about spreading fear and terror, hence the term Terrorism. Please be exact next time and post they are just terrorists. Thats exactly what they target. Code started out as a protest to nerfs to barge ganking, over the years it has evolved as more and more nerfs have landed. Now they are practically role playing a religion where they view to greedy and daft bear in highsec as the devil and try to purge what they see as the unclean. This once protest group now fanatical terrorist group are now more or less the only risk left in highsec, which in itself is rather upsetting. I think risk in High sec should come from PvE and more subtle forms of PvP rather than full blown gankers threat. People see it as clever use of CCP mechanics, no matter how broken they are for them, its still upsetting to be ganked by these people and a need of justice is not fulfilled for them. These are characters who primary concern was to be PvE player, protected from system, like most people are. I know its "not a game for them" but its niche that is left then, and it seems to become ever nicher I think. Just look a t the numbers. I was mildly concerned year ago, now I am more.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17707
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:04:52 -
[83] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote: I think risk in High sec should come from PvE and more subtle forms of PvP rather than full blown gankers threat. People see it as clever use of CCP mechanics, no matter how broken they are for them, its still upsetting to be ganked by these people and a need of justice is not fulfilled for them. These are characters who primary concern was to be PvE player, protected from system, like most people are. I know its "not a game for them" but its niche that is left then, and it seems to become ever nicher I think. Just look a t the numbers. I was mildly concerned year ago, now I am more.
Eve was growing at its fastest rate back when ganking was a hell of a lot easier and there was a number of other ways to get pvp in highsec that don't exist anymore. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:06:14 -
[84] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:CCP Falcon has outlined his thoughts on EVE Here. If you have a suggestion on improving a game mechanic please feel free to post it in Player Features and Ideas. A note on Kill boards: Zkillboard is a third party site. CCP does not endorse any third party site and can not contest to its accuracy.
So please can you give me a reliable source regarding this topic?
I only used this website so far, I don't know others.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:07:44 -
[85] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nana Skalski wrote: I think risk in High sec should come from PvE and more subtle forms of PvP rather than full blown gankers threat. People see it as clever use of CCP mechanics, no matter how broken they are for them, its still upsetting to be ganked by these people and a need of justice is not fulfilled for them. These are characters who primary concern was to be PvE player, protected from system, like most people are. I know its "not a game for them" but its niche that is left then, and it seems to become ever nicher I think. Just look a t the numbers. I was mildly concerned year ago, now I am more.
Eve was growing at its fastest rate back when ganking was a hell of a lot easier and there was a number of other ways to get pvp in highsec that don't exist anymore. But ganking was not so prevalent in the whole narration, actually everyone I ask thinks its gradually became worser. But if it isnt true, and data speak against this, there is something more than numbers and data, its feelings people have about that, what makes them not try the game in the first place. And if they try and are disgusted, well, you get those threads.
If ganking must be in this game, at least shift narration, and make act of it more punished, because its overdestructive I think.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
2995
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:09:04 -
[86] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:Forum ECM best ECM. I could be doing murder right now, but instead I'm typing on here.
Jenn, have you heard the holy gospel of suspect baiting? I have pamphlets. It's guilt-free PVP... they choose to shoot. You walk away with a clean conscience, and a wicked adrenaline rush :) I do love suspect baiting. For the true adrenaline rush you need to hold yourself to a certain standard and not up-ship or bring in alts to help yourself unless they go crazy in over-shipping/blobbing you though - at least for me I only get the adrenaline rush if there is a fairly real chance I might lose if they play their cards right. Also as people are people, and this is EVE - I do find they still always try to make you feel guilty when you win. They can blob you 5-10v1 and if you just barely win they'll guilt trip you over picking on "noobs" like them...though their attempts to brag if they win are almost as bad. I generally just ignore the local chat for the most part lol.
I always have taken a bit of pride in my approach. What you see is what you get. I have used an off grid booster before, but I kinda stopped because that ship moved slower than my helios. Instead it's always been the weird trap. That incursus, that enyo, that ishkur... is really going to murder you to death and maybe more.... by itself. They pulled the trigger, you react. My favorite fights I've lost, but I've walked away with a sense of real accomplishment in others... the incursus that popped the 1.3 bil Orthrus, the Ishkur that killed a Kronos... the Fed Navy Comet that compelled the Apocalypse Navy Issue to abandon ship and bail, allowing me my first taste of grand theft battleship.
This is only relevant to the OP in that the bottom line is that the amount of ISK invested in a venture of Nefarious Porpoise has NO relation to the amount of ISK that is either destroyed or absconded with by said evil sea mammal.... or anyone else for that matter. People do dumb things, it's up to other people to capitalize on those things.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14352
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:12:35 -
[87] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Forum ECM best ECM. I could be doing murder right now, but instead I'm typing on here.
Jenn, have you heard the holy gospel of suspect baiting? I have pamphlets. It's guilt-free PVP... they choose to shoot. You walk away with a clean conscience, and a wicked adrenaline rush :)
Thanks for the advice, but I learned my lesson a long time ago. That lesson is that I am much happier when I avoid Empire space all together. The only 2 characters out of 11 total I have left in high sec are a hauling alt and my "emergency back up isk guy" (my incursion toon, that I only use if I can't do anything else or just don't feel like doing null sec or WH space that night). I just flat hate the mechanics of low sec (pvp and pve) and well, high sec is high sec.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:14:04 -
[88] - Quote
And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14352
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:16:34 -
[89] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote: PS: Passive aggressive rarely works on internet forums - you would save yourself a lot of time/effort if you just took the direct approach and said you think it is broken and should be changed. Either way though, your thread will be locked, and you aren't going to get what you want.
DUDE (or DUDETTE), that is also one of my pet peeves.
Like when someone creates a thread with a 'question' like "Is {Thing they don't like} too powerful/unbalanced?" then go on to answer their own question....of course it is or they wouldn't be making that thread.. Makes my teeth grind, because it's them trying to appear 'reasonable' when they have already made up their mind. It's like saying "I don't like this, and this is why" is hard for them.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17074
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:17:20 -
[90] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul. the risk in pve is someone coming and shooting you in the face, any inherently risky pve gets picked apart and gamed within hours of going live on sisi so that by the time it hits tq we know how to run it (almost) risk free.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:19:05 -
[91] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:CCP Falcon has outlined his thoughts on EVE Here. If you have a suggestion on improving a game mechanic please feel free to post it in Player Features and Ideas. A note on Kill boards: Zkillboard is a third party site. CCP does not endorse any third party site and can not contest to its accuracy.
And again, thanking you for your answer, I think all the information players gave me can be summed up like that:
If you belong to an alliance focused on suicidal gank you can have:
- 1:30 isk ship killing ratio ( from a not official source, I hope I can update it from an official source)
- If you loot ( unsure about it actually ) let's say 50% of the ship value of the ships you kill the ratio is 1:15 so every month that you play you can hopefully plex ( or play for free) the next 15 months.
- It's a very safe activity because you do it in hisec, you kill players that are usually also insulted and consedered stupid players, you have no consequences and you can decide the engagement .
- There is no fight involved, you attack them and kill them in their expensive ship and you die for Concord in a cheap ship ( and I imagine you become suspect so you can even safe the capsule if you warp away from other players quickly because Concord I think don't kill your capsule)
If someone says me I can kill a 300k isl battleship with my 10k condor risk free with no fight in hisec and ask someone to loot the ship and share the loot I think I would be glad to do it.
So I think:
- 10mil ship is so powerful, incredibly powerful, a real joke.
- 300mil ship is weak, incredibly weak, a real joke.
Or there is some serious game mechanic exploitation
Or alliance players are the most intelligent in the wolrd while the ganked ones are the most stupid in the world.
But the last one is unlikely, I always tend to think persons are all average intelligent.
Turning the topic in the correct place soon. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14352
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:23:57 -
[92] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul.
What you want is another game. That is the underlying problem here, if you don['t like what EVE is already doing you aren't going to like anything else either.
PVE in EVE is fine btw (don't listen to the "make better pve" crowd, they don't know what they are talking about, some of the loudest "we want more PVE" people are the same people who consume the new PVE content and go right back to saving Damsels or running Forsaken Hubs 3 days later).
EVE's version of PVE caters to the Engineers and Tinkerer type player ie it's great for people who like to tackle problems in new ways, like completing missions in odd ships or doing DED plexes in tanked industrial ships (extreme examples). Some of the people who claim to want "better" PVE actually want "story time on rails" pve like you have in other MMOs. CCP dabbled in some of that with Epic Arcs and COSMOS before that. It didn't work, and CCP isn't good at providing that kind of episodic/always needing to be refreshed content anyways.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:26:58 -
[93] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul. the risk in pve is someone coming and shooting you in the face, any inherently risky pve gets picked apart and gamed within hours of going live on sisi so that by the time it hits tq we know how to run it (almost) risk free. So to me it seems its weak PvE. Static and repetitive. Sorry CCP. the most joy I get is when my ship is barely holding tank and I have to warp out to survive, and I survive and am happy. Things I never actually had in this particular site at that moment. It is engaging. Another thing is other players that are inside sites to run them. They may steal the loot, and that is something what adds danger to all of it.
These are all good things, same as ISK/RISK corelation, when the ISK is not available without RISK, and I am talkinag about real RISK, random, dangerous thing.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14352
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:28:38 -
[94] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul. the risk in pve is someone coming and shooting you in the face, any inherently risky pve gets picked apart and gamed within hours of going live on sisi so that by the time it hits tq we know how to run it (almost) risk free.
CCP even tried to get past that with Drifters and Drifter Incursions. That made them so god-awful powerful you couldn't 'game' them like that.
Result, no one I know even screws with Drifters. Drifters (and the new 'events' except Crimson Harvest, which was actually good) should be an object lesson for CCP, that lesson being "don't waste time on new pve junk that next to no one will use". Burner Missions worked, especially in high sec, as did adding capital spawns to null sec pve content. CCP should do more stuff like that imo.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
300
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:31:28 -
[95] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote:CCP Falcon has outlined his thoughts on EVE Here. If you have a suggestion on improving a game mechanic please feel free to post it in Player Features and Ideas. A note on Kill boards: Zkillboard is a third party site. CCP does not endorse any third party site and can not contest to its accuracy. So please can you give me a reliable source regarding this topic? I only used this website so far, I don't know others. Your original post stated that you used zkill...
Obvious troll is obvious, stop pretending to be a new player "asking a question" already.
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
So I think:
- 10mil ship is so powerful, incredibly powerful, a real joke.
- 300mil ship is weak, incredibly weak, a real joke.
Or there is some serious game mechanic exploitation
Or alliance players are the most intelligent in the wolrd while the ganked ones are the most stupid in the world.
But the last one is unlikely, I always tend to think persons are all average intelligent.
Turning the topic in the correct place soon.
Or the 300 mil ship is flown by an idiot...and the intelligence of the 10 mil ship pilot is irrelevant because he is killing an idiot.
As for your isk ratio, I picked a random person from the top 10 in EVE to compare with your supposedly randomly selected alliance:
This Man Flies 60% solo and 40% in gangs, and has a 100 to 1 isk efficiency Ratio. Start ranting about how broken he is please.
It needs to be addressed urgently... |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:33:34 -
[96] - Quote
Seems like CCP cant just get all PvE right after all those years. They did some things to research it, but it was too little and were always concerned about only barely holding those players with engineer tinkerer things. What thery were thinking is that players wil entertain themselves when they throw them inside the harsh realities of EVE. All of those decisions in long run started to affecty their ability to maintain subscriptions in stable numbers. Not much evolution?
This is somewhat sad.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:36:18 -
[97] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote:CCP Falcon has outlined his thoughts on EVE Here. If you have a suggestion on improving a game mechanic please feel free to post it in Player Features and Ideas. A note on Kill boards: Zkillboard is a third party site. CCP does not endorse any third party site and can not contest to its accuracy. So please can you give me a reliable source regarding this topic? I only used this website so far, I don't know others. Your original post stated that you used zkill... Obvious troll is obvious, stop pretending to be a new player "asking a question" already. Lucy Lollipops wrote:
So I think:
- 10mil ship is so powerful, incredibly powerful, a real joke.
- 300mil ship is weak, incredibly weak, a real joke.
Or there is some serious game mechanic exploitation
Or alliance players are the most intelligent in the wolrd while the ganked ones are the most stupid in the world.
But the last one is unlikely, I always tend to think persons are all average intelligent.
Turning the topic in the correct place soon.
Or the 300 mil ship is flown by an idiot...and the intelligence of the 10 mil ship pilot is irrelevant because he is killing an idiot. As for your isk ratio, I picked a random person from the top 10 in EVE to compare with your supposedly randomly selected alliance: This Man Flies 60% solo and 40% in gangs, and has a 100 to 1 isk efficiency Ratio. Start ranting about how broken he is please.It needs to be addressed urgently...
You can believe me or not, I'm not a long time player.
Zkill I use because I began to try factional warfare and I use zkill to see what kind of fitting those fw players use ( I see the loss ships to see it )
That player you linked I suppose I already saw him in the top players and from the location of his kills and his alliance I think he belongs to the other topic that is discussed often, the wardeccers.
Edit: to call persons idiots is rude. Maybe they simply don't know exploited mechanics, if mechanics are exploited, or they don't know their ships are extremely underpowered for their cost. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
300
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:37:11 -
[98] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul. So if CCP removed player ganking from the game but upgraded npc belt rats in all high-sec systems so they could and would kill the average anti-tanked mining barge - essentially an NPC non-suicide ganker....This would be a good solution for you?
If it is - then since it is the same end result I would ask why you care if people enjoy ganking? Are you against them having fun?
If it is not - then what exactly *would* you do to "increase risk" for afk miners? |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
300
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:40:23 -
[99] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote: That player you linked I suppose I already saw him in the top players and from the location of his kills and his alliance I think he belongs to the other topic that is discussed often, the wardeccers.
This one is a low-sec pirate - similar to FW, just less formal. This one lives in 0.0 space...
All with higher isk efficiency than CODE...
Are they all broken too? Perhaps we should just trash the entire game and start over? |
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
2998
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:40:37 -
[100] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I am a troll who poses a question in a passive aggressive fashion in order to bend data gathered to my own means.
If you want validation on how awesome you are, get a dog. You knew the answer before you asked, you just wanted an AUTHORITY to give you what you wanted so you could build a case on how awful things were in your view.
Things are working as intended. CODE. is as effective as they are because nobody can be arsed to take responsibility for their own safety. Ganking is DOWN from where it used to be, we just have more puling screamers crying to high heaven about how ungodly UNFAIR it is that they can't fap or watch youtube while they are effortlessly making ISK in the game because mean people have figured out how to hurt them... and efficiently too. My gawd, that freighter costs BILLIONS it should cost BILLIONS to destroy.
Horse Hockey.
Stop trying to make a case for ISK tanking. There is no case. The value of your ship is not the toughness of your ship. This is one of the very few MMO's out there where the knowledge of the player when it comes to how to play the game vastly outweighs the effectiveness of the numbers on their character sheet. If a PLAYER has figured out a way to do murder to a ship that is VASTLY more expensive than the ship they are flying that is not an exploit. That is them being clever, and clever merits reward far more than dumb and lazy. No trophies for participation, no cookies for attendance, NO SPRINKLES ON THE ICE CREAM FOR LOSERS.
It is now 'deal with it o'clock'.... do you know what time it is?
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:42:25 -
[101] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul. So if CCP removed player ganking from the gang but upgraded npc belt rats in all high-sec systems so they could and would kill the average anti-tanked mining barge - essentially an NPC non-suicide ganker....This would be a good solution for you? If it is - then since it is the same end result I would ask why you care if people enjoy ganking? Are you against them having fun? If it is not - then what exactly *would* you do to "increase risk" for afk miners? But if they would only make ganking more punished, they would not eliminate it, but make it only a minor inconvenience. Eliminating it completely would be like removing terrorism from real world completely, and that is I think impossible. So lets compromise on locking them out of high sec for extended periods of time.
Miners would need still to watch out for those bigger and nastier rats of course, but with them should come greater ISK, Dread spawns as a prototype of it?
What I think the development board should really think harder about whole thing.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:45:14 -
[102] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:I am a troll who poses a question in a passive aggressive fashion in order to bend data gathered to my own means. If you want validation on how awesome you are, get a dog. You knew the answer before you asked, you just wanted an AUTHORITY to give you what you wanted so you could build a case on how awful things were in your view. Things are working as intended. CODE. is as effective as they are because nobody can be arsed to take responsibility for their own safety. Ganking is DOWN from where it used to be, we just have more puling screamers crying to high heaven about how ungodly UNFAIR it is that they can't fap or watch youtube while they are effortlessly making ISK in the game because mean people have figured out how to hurt them... and efficiently too. My gawd, that freighter costs BILLIONS it should cost BILLIONS to destroy. Horse Hockey. Stop trying to make a case for ISK tanking. There is no case. The value of your ship is not the toughness of your ship. This is one of the very few MMO's out there where the knowledge of the player when it comes to how to play the game vastly outweighs the effectiveness of the numbers on their character sheet. If a PLAYER has figured out a way to do murder to a ship that is VASTLY more expensive than the ship they are flying that is not an exploit. That is them being clever, and clever merits reward far more than dumb and lazy. No trophies for participation, no cookies for attendance, NO SPRINKLES ON THE ICE CREAM FOR LOSERS. It is now 'deal with it o'clock'.... do you know what time it is?
Sounds menacing.
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8414
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:45:18 -
[103] - Quote
It's turning into farking Groundhog Day around here.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14353
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:47:00 -
[104] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Seems like CCP cant just get all PvE right after all those years. They did some things to research it, but it was too little and were always concerned about only barely holding those players with engineer tinkerer things. What thery were thinking is that players wil entertain themselves when they throw them inside the harsh realities of EVE. All of those decisions in long run started to affecty their ability to maintain subscriptions in stable numbers. Not much evolution?
This is somewhat sad.
What's sad is that you don't get EVE. EVE is all about entertaining yourself (and people entertaining each other) rather than NPCs doing all the heavy lifting like in other MMOs. If it's other MMOs style you want, why are you here instead of there?
I know why I'm here. EVE don't try to hold your hand or tell you a story (there is story telling, but those stories are for role players and safely ignored by the rest of us, I don't give a flip about who the Amarr Emperor is lol). EVE lets you make your own story and memorable moments, even with PVE. If I wanted the things you seem to want, I would have quit EVE and kept playing Star Trek Online (which is an episodic pve focused game, and it even lets you walk around planets stations and ships, something people keep begging for here).
Long story short, EVE is fine (despite all the "blah blah subscriptions" noise, we've been hearing that for 13 years), it's just not something you like or can adapt to.
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:47:09 -
[105] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:It's turning into farking Groundhog Day around here.
You're right, I kindly ask this topic to be closed so I can write in the correct place as suggested.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:47:41 -
[106] - Quote
Nevermind, I think i completely have nothing more to add.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
2999
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:49:26 -
[107] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:I am a troll who poses a question in a passive aggressive fashion in order to bend data gathered to my own means. If you want validation on how awesome you are, get a dog. You knew the answer before you asked, you just wanted an AUTHORITY to give you what you wanted so you could build a case on how awful things were in your view. Things are working as intended. CODE. is as effective as they are because nobody can be arsed to take responsibility for their own safety. Ganking is DOWN from where it used to be, we just have more puling screamers crying to high heaven about how ungodly UNFAIR it is that they can't fap or watch youtube while they are effortlessly making ISK in the game because mean people have figured out how to hurt them... and efficiently too. My gawd, that freighter costs BILLIONS it should cost BILLIONS to destroy. Horse Hockey. Stop trying to make a case for ISK tanking. There is no case. The value of your ship is not the toughness of your ship. This is one of the very few MMO's out there where the knowledge of the player when it comes to how to play the game vastly outweighs the effectiveness of the numbers on their character sheet. If a PLAYER has figured out a way to do murder to a ship that is VASTLY more expensive than the ship they are flying that is not an exploit. That is them being clever, and clever merits reward far more than dumb and lazy. No trophies for participation, no cookies for attendance, NO SPRINKLES ON THE ICE CREAM FOR LOSERS. It is now 'deal with it o'clock'.... do you know what time it is? Sounds menacing. No. Not menacing. A wake up call. It is what it is. You can choose to accept it, you can choose to walk away from it, or you can choose to try to change it. The last bit is the only path that involves external resistance. Most of us love it how it is, or at least have learned to accept it for it's true nature. Trying to change it's nature to fit your preconceived notions of what should be will result in opposition, scorn and poop flinging. It's been this way for a long time and hopefully will remain so for a long time to come.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 14:57:18 -
[108] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:I am a troll who poses a question in a passive aggressive fashion in order to bend data gathered to my own means. If you want validation on how awesome you are, get a dog. You knew the answer before you asked, you just wanted an AUTHORITY to give you what you wanted so you could build a case on how awful things were in your view. Things are working as intended. CODE. is as effective as they are because nobody can be arsed to take responsibility for their own safety. Ganking is DOWN from where it used to be, we just have more puling screamers crying to high heaven about how ungodly UNFAIR it is that they can't fap or watch youtube while they are effortlessly making ISK in the game because mean people have figured out how to hurt them... and efficiently too. My gawd, that freighter costs BILLIONS it should cost BILLIONS to destroy. Horse Hockey. Stop trying to make a case for ISK tanking. There is no case. The value of your ship is not the toughness of your ship. This is one of the very few MMO's out there where the knowledge of the player when it comes to how to play the game vastly outweighs the effectiveness of the numbers on their character sheet. If a PLAYER has figured out a way to do murder to a ship that is VASTLY more expensive than the ship they are flying that is not an exploit. That is them being clever, and clever merits reward far more than dumb and lazy. No trophies for participation, no cookies for attendance, NO SPRINKLES ON THE ICE CREAM FOR LOSERS. It is now 'deal with it o'clock'.... do you know what time it is? Sounds menacing. No. Not menacing. A wake up call. It is what it is. You can choose to accept it, you can choose to walk away from it, or you can choose to try to change it. The last bit is the only path that involves external resistance. Most of us love it how it is, or at least have learned to accept it for it's true nature. Trying to change it's nature to fit your preconceived notions of what should be will result in opposition, scorn and poop flinging. It's been this way for a long time and hopefully will remain so for a long time to come.
I would agree with some, except I think there is some exploitation ( maybe cause by underpowered enemy ships, but I will have the answer in another place I think ) and I don't believe a so huge kill ratio (with this isk number, not taken alone obviously) doesn't involve a huge Isk gaining.
So it's a very big trophy, if someones offers me an activity where I can play one month and play for free the next 15 months I would consider it a big trophy.
That said, please close this post :) |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17708
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:01:43 -
[109] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote: But ganking was not so prevalent in the whole narration, actually everyone I ask thinks its gradually became worser. But if it isnt true, and data speak against this, there is something more than numbers and data, its feelings people have about that, what makes them not try the game in the first place. And if they try and are disgusted, well, you get those threads.
If ganking must be in this game, at least shift narration, and make act of it more punished, because its overdestructive I think.
Why should the single most punished and nerfed activity in the game be even more punished and nerfed? |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
300
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:07:13 -
[110] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:And as I stated before, I dont want risk to be eliminated. I want it to be more prevalent in PvE. That would mean PvE serious overhaul. So if CCP removed player ganking from the gang but upgraded npc belt rats in all high-sec systems so they could and would kill the average anti-tanked mining barge - essentially an NPC non-suicide ganker....This would be a good solution for you? If it is - then since it is the same end result I would ask why you care if people enjoy ganking? Are you against them having fun? If it is not - then what exactly *would* you do to "increase risk" for afk miners? But if they would only make ganking more punished, they would not eliminate it, but make it only a minor inconvenience. Eliminating it completely would be like removing terrorism from real world completely, and that is I think impossible. So lets compromise on locking them out of high sec for extended periods of time. Miners would need still to watch out for those bigger and nastier rats of course, but with them should come greater ISK, Dread spawns as a prototype of it? What I think the development board should really think harder about whole thing. Well then I will ask you the same question I recently asked someone else:
Quote:Would your stiffer penalties apply to people on their first/second offense, or would the first few ganks be forgiven?
Because if you forgive the first few ganks - obviously you leave a loophole for people to exploit....And if it is tied to security status they can just use tags to buy that back...
But if you *don't* forgive the first few ganks - you are going to shut down the entire EVE career of every new player who decides to see what happens when they set that safety to red and shoot somebody on the rookie system undock (which is quite a few of them last time I checked)... This is true to real-life, but I'm not sure it is a good idea in a game for one foolish mistake to essentially end their lives.
Either way it seems like a flawed system, and you might as well just skip it and argue directly for complete removal of ganks in high-sec from the game mechanics. CCP still won't listen to you (yet, anyway) - but it has less unintended consequences that directly hit new players... (though I suspect it might cause some chaos in the EVE economy)
|
|
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
2999
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:11:27 -
[111] - Quote
wait wait... I got this one. Short list, not including the zero sum bowhead hyperdunking situation. Massive hull boosts for ALL ships. Added low slots so freighters could fit a tank. Damage control systems made passive so they even work while autopiloting... Rebalance of a number of specific ships, which my drunk ass wont bother going into detail on.
That's your short list of RECENT nerfs to ganking. Oh, and for those who are mathematically impaired, almost ALL of these changes/features/nerfs involve making a 'non-combatant' ship harder to kill.... resulting in a larger amount of DPS to gank them before CONCORD drops the hammer on the involved. At the least this means better/more expensive fit ships to the job, on average this means more ships to do the job... in other words it's more difficult.
on to economy. if **** does not blow up, people will not buy more ****. it is known. That is all.
Actually, that's not all. OP is now somewhat squirmy in the realization that they have truly stepped in it. They took a sniff and did not like the smell. I hope our ISD in all their sadistic glory move this to C&P so that the wolves may feast at their leisure. That is all
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:21:00 -
[112] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:wait wait... I got this one. Short list, not including the zero sum bowhead hyperdunking situation. Massive hull boosts for ALL ships. Added low slots so freighters could fit a tank. Damage control systems made passive so they even work while autopiloting... Rebalance of a number of specific ships, which my drunk ass wont bother going into detail on. That's your short list of RECENT nerfs to ganking. Oh, and for those who are mathematically impaired, almost ALL of these changes/features/nerfs involve making a 'non-combatant' ship harder to kill.... resulting in a larger amount of DPS to gank them before CONCORD drops the hammer on the involved. At the least this means better/more expensive fit ships to the job, on average this means more ships to do the job... in other words it's more difficult. on to economy. if **** does not blow up, people will not buy more ****. it is known. That is all. Actually, that's not all. OP is now somewhat squirmy in the realization that they have truly stepped in it. They took a sniff and did not like the smell. I hope our ISD in all their sadistic glory move this to C&P so that the wolves may feast at their leisure. That is all
mmm
on to economy. if **** does not blow up, people will not buy more ****. it is known. That is all.
This is not good and sounds to me very bad.
I like the idea of blowing up ships, but I don't like the idea that ships are to be blown up at all costs.
Sounds like some mechanics are left there because they help to clean players of money, sounds bad.
I really hope it's not like that and I imagine "healthy" game developers would not allow something like that. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:24:48 -
[113] - Quote
Oh, no. I think I should clarify that what you consider nerf to ganking was in fact only a smoke courtain for everyone from CCP. Boost to tank of ships only need more gaker alts to be there. This alone was not to make it less prevalent in effect. Fail from CCP side. Changes actually are in effect not to make it less prevalent, it is clear that the system dont punish you for gank severely to make it less prevalent. So actually ganks are repetitive, with the same characters over and over in short periods of time. There is no consequences powerful enough in effect that would prohibit that, and if you think this current situation punishes ganker, its not clearly as harsh as should be to shift the narration.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Lord LazyGhost
Duty. Mighty Wings.
501
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:24:59 -
[114] - Quote
Falcon Aka Verone used to be the CEO of Veto corp.
They where not just a bunch of gankers. they used to fly and fight gang style all the time. had some really good fun with them bakc in the day when iw as in SF.
so all these claims they where just gankers killing expensive ships with cheap stuff is just wrong. they trolled around in low sec wrecking what they could. |
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
3001
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:25:20 -
[115] - Quote
actually that's how the economy works. if people do not lose things then they have no reason to buy those things. once you have all the things you want and you don't lose any of those things all that's left is the operating costs of ammunition and whatnot. Without a steady loss off assets you're going to end up with the economy crapping it's own guts out in short order.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
3001
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:29:04 -
[116] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Oh, no. I think I should clarify that what you consider nerf to ganking was in fact only a smoke courtain for everyone from CCP. Boost to tank of ships only need more gaker alts to be there. This alone was not to make it less prevalent in effect. Fail from CCP side. Changes actually are in effect not to make it less prevalent, it is clear that the system dont punish you for gank severely to make it less prevalent. So actually ganks are repetitive, with the same characters over and over in short periods of time. There is no consequences powerful enough in effect that would prohibit that, and if you think this current situation punishes ganker, its not clearly as harsh as should be to shift the narration.
Your view is no less skewed than my own. You state alts as if that's somehting meaniful when it comes to application. In truth it doesn't matter if a character is an alt or not, it's a subscribed account. So long as they aren't doing the whole broadcasting of macros thing that the folks involved are ostensibly and vehemently opposed to, I don't see how that's relevant. More characters are needed to do the job, that is by definition an increase in difficulty... regardless of any spin applied.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:29:51 -
[117] - Quote
Ugh, maybe I should make something else. Like read a blog where CCP writes:
Quote:Greetings again honorable spaceship warriors. No word about gankers, fhew...
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
300
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:32:36 -
[118] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Ugh, maybe I should make something else. Like read a blog where CCP writes: Quote:Greetings again honorable spaceship warriors. No word about gankers, fhew... I can't help but notice that you are ignoring my question. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:33:27 -
[119] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:actually that's how the economy works. if people do not lose things then they have no reason to buy those things. once you have all the things you want and you don't lose any of those things all that's left is the operating costs of ammunition and whatnot. Without a steady loss off assets you're going to end up with the economy crapping it's own guts out in short order.
I don't agree.
If Developers decide to making some players ( noobs of less expert ) very very weak and exposed to clean big amount of money that the economy cannot absorb by itself it means this is absolutely not a sandbox.
They claim it's a sandbox so I cannot believe some mechanics are left there to absorb unspended money.
I think it's only some badly programmed mechanics.
And it's different from wardecs, because wardecced can use pvp ships and they can fight, wardecs have the problem of the one week pause that's often asked by leaders of "pacifist" corps, it's another thing even if the links I saw posted gave me an idea of how much wardeccer alliance can gain in term of isks and it's something amazing too.
|
Caco De'mon
New Order Logistics CODE.
3
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:40:21 -
[120] - Quote
Burn High Sec To The Ground
AFK miners YouTube'ing in there 1/4 billion boats need to be lit-up like candles...
Only through destruction can we have creation...
All praise James 315 All hail the CODE and their holy mission to save HiSec All bow before the nobility of the Code and their saint agents. |
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:42:55 -
[121] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Ugh, maybe I should make something else. Like read a blog where CCP writes: Quote:Greetings again honorable spaceship warriors. No word about gankers, fhew... I can't help but notice that you are ignoring my question. Every gank would be punished the same, but with explanation what is player puniishment in case he would try first time. And because the efects would be still unpredictable, I am not a prophet. I only think this would work for more people. Still EVE would be EVE, but with less whine.
New player always make new characters from my experience, I made myself a lot of them in beginning.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
465
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:55:54 -
[122] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:ISK value: Mainly freighter ganks. Solo to Gang relation: Autopilot podding, shuttle ganking, that kind of stuff. The sort of "play style" that allows you to watch Family Guy reruns at the same time. Gotta love "content creation" ... where ever it's found.
Someone from CCP said "honorable"? Now, I've heard it all.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:59:08 -
[123] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:ISK value: Mainly freighter ganks. Solo to Gang relation: Autopilot podding, shuttle ganking, that kind of stuff. The sort of "play style" that allows you to watch Family Guy reruns at the same time. Gotta love "content creation" ... where ever it's found. Someone from CCP said "honorable"? Now, I've heard it all. Boring stuff should have been gone away long time before. CCP now uses other players for punishing you if you want to skip watching space slideshow, that because its easier for them. But it hurts the game on the longer run in my perspective.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
300
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:02:47 -
[124] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Ugh, maybe I should make something else. Like read a blog where CCP writes: Quote:Greetings again honorable spaceship warriors. No word about gankers, fhew... I can't help but notice that you are ignoring my question. Every gank would be punished the same, but with explanation what is player puniishment in case he would try first time. And because the efects would be still unpredictable, I am not a prophet. I only think this would work for more people. Still EVE would be EVE, but with less whine. New player always make new characters from my experience, I made myself a lot of them in beginning. I do not share your optimism that people would suddenly begin reading warning pop-ups (they never have before)...
Nor am I optimistic that a 2-day old character who finds out a game literally has an option that if he clicks 3 buttons and says "ok" on a warning window he is completely ****ed and literally can't ever do anything in EVE again - at least until after he has made an entirely new character or payed money for a game he hasn't even played yet to hide in station for a month or 2 (whatever your length of banishment is)... |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
978
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:04:43 -
[125] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:confirming, its like fishing for people with a Hubris lure.
That's the best kind of lure for people.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:08:17 -
[126] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Ugh, maybe I should make something else. Like read a blog where CCP writes: Quote:Greetings again honorable spaceship warriors. No word about gankers, fhew... I can't help but notice that you are ignoring my question. Every gank would be punished the same, but with explanation what is player puniishment in case he would try first time. And because the efects would be still unpredictable, I am not a prophet. I only think this would work for more people. Still EVE would be EVE, but with less whine. New player always make new characters from my experience, I made myself a lot of them in beginning. I do not share your optimism that people would suddenly begin reading warning pop-ups (they never have before)... Nor am I optimistic that a 2-day old character who finds out a game literally has an option that if he clicks 3 buttons and says "ok" on a warning window he is completely ****ed and literally can't ever do anything in EVE again - at least until after he has made an entirely new character or payed money for a game he hasn't even played yet to hide in station for a month or 2 (whatever your length of banishment is)... You are underestimating new player I think. He is here to explore all aspects. And new character after the first one after undocking from the station is not a big deal. And you are giving him choice, its his decision, you have clear hands.
You can give someone a spaceship and say that he will be persecuted for using it wrong way, and punished severely. Is that real world science fiction, for me it is.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
302
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:09:59 -
[127] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:You are underestimating new player I think. He is here to explore all aspects. And new character after the first one after undocking from the station is not a big deal. And you are giving him choice, its his decision, you have clear hands. So, in your opinion, new players are leaving the game because they get suicide ganked a few times...
But when the game itself allows them to essentially nuke their own cherished character in a much more real and lasting sense, they'll bounce right back?
You sir are delusional. |
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
90
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:13:36 -
[128] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:You are underestimating new player I think. He is here to explore all aspects. And new character after the first one after undocking from the station is not a big deal. And you are giving him choice, its his decision, you have clear hands. So, in your opinion, new players are leaving the game because they get suicide ganked a few times... But when the game itself allows them to essentially nuke their own cherished character in a much more real and lasting sense, they'll bounce right back? You sir are delusional.
I've come to the conclusion this person actually has no idea what they are talking about nor actually want from the game. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:14:36 -
[129] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:You are underestimating new player I think. He is here to explore all aspects. And new character after the first one after undocking from the station is not a big deal. And you are giving him choice, its his decision, you have clear hands. So, in your opinion, new players are leaving the game because they get suicide ganked a few times... But when the game itself allows them to essentially nuke their own cherished character in a much more real and lasting sense, they'll bounce right back? You sir are delusional. No, no no, you were talking about new player trying ganking now. I never wrote that new player is ganked and leaves because of that. Its nonsense. My proposition had more to it. Its more deeper than that. Its about whole perception of game, by making some changes to puynishment, changing WIKI article even because of that.
I think you dont understand what I already wrote in all of those posts if now you.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Caco De'mon
New Order Logistics CODE.
3
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:14:58 -
[130] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:CCP now uses other players for punishing you if you want to skip watching space slideshow, that because its easier for them.
If YOU choose to mine or haul then that's YOUR choice. If YOU then choose to watch YouTube, as it's so dull, then that's also YOUR choice. Don't blame CCP for the choices YOU made that lead to YOUR ship getting atomized.
Entitled HS'ers... |
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:15:39 -
[131] - Quote
Cien Banchiere wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:You are underestimating new player I think. He is here to explore all aspects. And new character after the first one after undocking from the station is not a big deal. And you are giving him choice, its his decision, you have clear hands. So, in your opinion, new players are leaving the game because they get suicide ganked a few times... But when the game itself allows them to essentially nuke their own cherished character in a much more real and lasting sense, they'll bounce right back? You sir are delusional. I've come to the conclusion this person actually has no idea what they are talking about nor actually want from the game. Oh and you are also mistaken by reading that response and believing it.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Judaa K'Marr
Power-Hug Training Bootcamp
18
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:15:50 -
[132] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:You all are telling me:
- This alliance plays in almost exclusively High Security
- They can use a 10 mil ship to kill a 280 mil ship easily
- They can decide targets and kill them with no risks and no problem.
Statistic says:
- They killed about 30 trillions of ships and lost about 1 trillion of ships value.
- They did it with a 74% or solo ratio.
I think all of this deserves an answer from a Developer, if Falcon or not it's the same, I've read he was a pirate so I suppose he knows the reasons better than anyone else ( maybe he was in that alliance too, I really don't know).
They are enabled to do that. If highsec miners would use tank procurers orbiting with AB on then both miner bumping + ganking would be rare. If freighters would not carry more than could be killed with n/2 value of gank ships freighter ganking would be rare. It would still happen for the lulz, but that ratio would be way way lower.
Some people would say this is "blaming the victim", but well, sometimes it's true that the victim is to blame. I can't change the truth. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:16:48 -
[133] - Quote
Caco De'mon wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:CCP now uses other players for punishing you if you want to skip watching space slideshow, that because its easier for them. If YOU choose to mine or haul then that's YOUR choice. If YOU then choose to watch YouTube, as it's so dull, then that's also YOUR choice. Don't blame CCP for the choices YOU made that lead to YOUR ship getting atomized. Entitled HS'ers...
Yet cpace slideshow is boring and must go away. Every game developer will say it to you.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:19:42 -
[134] - Quote
I have never said new player is ganked and leaves because of that. Some may, but actual damage is to people who dont want to try, and ones who are established eve players.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
303
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:20:12 -
[135] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:You are underestimating new player I think. He is here to explore all aspects. And new character after the first one after undocking from the station is not a big deal. And you are giving him choice, its his decision, you have clear hands. So, in your opinion, new players are leaving the game because they get suicide ganked a few times... But when the game itself allows them to essentially nuke their own cherished character in a much more real and lasting sense, they'll bounce right back? You sir are delusional. No, no no, you were talking about new player trying ganking now. I never wrote that new player is ganked and leaves because of that. Its nonsense. My proposition had more to it. Its more deeper than that. Its about whole perception of game, by making some changes to puynishment, changing WIKI article even because of that. I think you dont understand what I already wrote in all of those posts if now you write that. I have seen a lot of new players go criminal. It is usually an accident. They don't read the warnings.
I am talking about what your proposed severe punishment is going to do to them.
They make 1 mistake (and they will) - and *boom* - they are essentially dead. They have no skills, they have no ship, they have no isk, and they can't even undock in high sec.
As for denying that ganking pushes people out of the game now......If ganking isn't a problem, why do you want to change it? |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
489
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:21:28 -
[136] - Quote
I have to be missing something here.
I have been a HiSec resident from the start of this toon. I have ventured into WH space, dropped into Lo/Null. I haven't seen an epidemic of ganking and I live right next to Uedama.
I have been attempted locked ONCE by a potential Suicide monkey. I was alert and was already warping by the time I was being yellow boxed, no chance of getting me. I was in a Stabbed and quick spin Miasmos with less than 7mil of cargo. That was my only encounter with suicide ganking in 6 months. I've only lost 1 ship to another player and that was due to my own inexperience and stupidity.
So, what is this epidemic of suicide ganking that I'm supposed to be shaking in my boots over?
I'll say it again, take me out and I will make certain to make your life miserable, one way or the other. There is only one way to effectively deal with bullies and racketeers:
The Chicago Way
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:24:10 -
[137] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:You are underestimating new player I think. He is here to explore all aspects. And new character after the first one after undocking from the station is not a big deal. And you are giving him choice, its his decision, you have clear hands. So, in your opinion, new players are leaving the game because they get suicide ganked a few times... But when the game itself allows them to essentially nuke their own cherished character in a much more real and lasting sense, they'll bounce right back? You sir are delusional. No, no no, you were talking about new player trying ganking now. I never wrote that new player is ganked and leaves because of that. Its nonsense. My proposition had more to it. Its more deeper than that. Its about whole perception of game, by making some changes to puynishment, changing WIKI article even because of that. I think you dont understand what I already wrote in all of those posts if now you write that. I have seen a lot of new players go criminal. It is usually an accident. They don't read the warnings. I am talking about what your proposed severe punishment is going to do to them. They make 1 mistake (and they will) - and *boom* - they are essentially dead. They have no skills, they have no ship, they have no isk, and they can't even undock in high sec. As for denying that ganking pushes people out of the game now......If ganking isn't a problem, why do you want to change it? Clearly you have not read all of my responses, dont try to ask about what was already in them., I will not repeat myself over and over. Its an issue that needs solving in delicate manner.
And on that note, I think I had enough conversations today, because its all too much for you. You have not been able to grasp in entirety.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:28:14 -
[138] - Quote
I just noticed my link to the zkill was removed by isd |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
303
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:30:15 -
[139] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Clearly you have not read all of my responses, dont try to ask about what was already in them., I will not repeat myself over and over. Its an issue that needs solving in delicate manner.
And on that note, I think I had enough conversations today, because its all too much for you. You have not been able to grasp in entirety.
I dont think CCP grasps it also. Well others have already said - since you want to fundamentally change all of EVE - find a different game....
I'm just trying to talk about 1 specific point, not your entire grand plan.
If you can't answer 1 basic objection about 1 detail of your plan, I really don't see any point in moving on to the grand scheme and the many other flaws waiting to be discovered... |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
303
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:31:01 -
[140] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I just noticed my link to the zkill was removed by isd Technically killmail links are against forum rules entirely - you are lucky they haven't just locked your thread yet |
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:31:06 -
[141] - Quote
I have never said new player is ganked and leaves because of that. Some may, but actual damage is to people who dont want to try, and ones who are established eve players.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:31:59 -
[142] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:I just noticed my link to the zkill was removed by isd Technically killmail links are against forum rules entirely - you are lucky they haven't just locked your thread yet
Really? Didn't know about it.
So where can statistic be found "officially"?
|
Caco De'mon
New Order Logistics CODE.
3
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:32:12 -
[143] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I have to be missing something here.
I suggest you (and anyone interested) roll play a CODE agent for a day. You don't need to actually gank anyone but just hunt for miners with a known ganker ship and you will quickly see why they tears flow so easily for these types.
You respect your environment and those around you. You are aware. You know that threats can come at any time from any direction. You realize that to somebody, you are just a target and you act accordingly. Almost all my victims don't even move.....aren't even aligned....are still in their pods when I return for the loot...
These types do none of that. They park on the 0 and flip their lasers on while they hit play on some video. As you only have seconds to react in EVE, chatting, watching vids or doing something else is not recommended...but these types feel that they are entitled to be 100% safe, earning ISK all the while doing something else...
I commend you for your situational awareness and space work ethics. I hope to never cross you as I believe your warning....
HighSec life isn't the problem, it's how some live that life that is...
o7 |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14354
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:33:38 -
[144] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I have to be missing something here. I have been a HiSec resident from the start of this toon. I have ventured into WH space, dropped into Lo/Null. I haven't seen an epidemic of ganking and I live right next to Uedama. I have been attempted locked ONCE by a potential Suicide monkey. I was alert and was already warping by the time I was being yellow boxed, no chance of getting me. I was in a Stabbed and quick spin Miasmos with less than 7mil of cargo. That was my only encounter with suicide ganking in 6 months. I've only lost 1 ship to another player and that was due to my own inexperience and stupidity. So, what is this epidemic of suicide ganking that I'm supposed to be shaking in my boots over? I'll say it again, take me out and I will make certain to make your life miserable, one way or the other. There is only one way to effectively deal with bullies and racketeers: The Chicago Way
You aren't missing anything, the reason why you (and I, and many others) never have these problems (I've lost a shuttle and 2 pods to CODE/Goons in high sec ganks) , problems that compel others to make forum thread after forum thread because they suffer gank after gank, is contained in your own sig:
Quote:Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later
There are two types of people in this situation: The people who are aware of what's going on around them , and if they suffer a bad turn their FIRST thought is "what did I do wrong, what am I missing, how can I do better next time". Then there are those others who suffer a bad turn (oe see someone else suffer one) and immediately jump to "this is an outrage, this should not be allowed, there ought to be a law against this!!".
The 1st type is inward looking and understands that the only thing you are in control of (and thus the only thing you can reliably change) is yourself. The 2nd type is outward looking and tries to manipulate their environment to fit them rather than adapting to fit their environment. The 2nd type thinks that everything they are doing is perfect, it's that other guy over there that needs to change, thus the 2nd type never improves and always faces the same results.
As you might have noticed, I'm not a fan of the 2nd type |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2716
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:34:19 -
[145] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I just noticed my link to the zkill was removed by isd Posting kills is not allowed in this forum part.
Personally I think CODE. does a largely undervalued but very necessary service to New Eden.
... and serious note, all those who compare New Eden to real life rules, forget to do a proper translation. What if in real life we all would be immortal demi-gods? What do you think the society would look like in a few thousand years? I'm not optimistic ... it would be much closer to New Eden than you might expect.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:34:24 -
[146] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Clearly you have not read all of my responses, dont try to ask about what was already in them., I will not repeat myself over and over. Its an issue that needs solving in delicate manner.
And on that note, I think I had enough conversations today, because its all too much for you. You have not been able to grasp in entirety.
I dont think CCP grasps it also. Well others have already said - since you want to fundamentally change all of EVE - find a different game.... I'm just trying to talk about 1 specific point, not your entire grand plan. If you can't answer 1 basic objection about 1 detail of your plan, I really don't see any point in moving on to the grand scheme and the many other flaws waiting to be discovered... I know its hard, and I am not a developer. I thought they were. Just a few thought out suggestions rather than propositions that would need maybe a little tweaking. You get the general idea, Maybe it is somewhat flaved, but for me it has a lot of potential, and if that potential can be build upon, to make some actual feature, well. I think EVE would get better for potential players.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:38:24 -
[147] - Quote
Caco De'mon wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote:I have to be missing something here. I suggest you (and anyone interested) roll play a CODE agent for a day. You don't need to actually gank anyone but just hunt for miners with a known ganker ship and you will quickly see why they tears flow so easily for these types. You respect your environment and those around you. You are aware. You know that threats can come at any time from any direction. You realize that to somebody, you are just a target and you act accordingly. These types do none of that. They park on the 0 and flip their lasers on while they hit play on some video. As you only have seconds to react in EVE, chatting, watching vids or doing something else is not recommended...but these types feel that they are entitled to be 100% safe, earning ISK all the while doing something else... I commend you for your situational awareness and space work ethics. I hope to never cross you are I believe your warning.... HighSec life isn't the problem, it's how some live that life that is... o7
So why CCP made a so really really slow mining system?
When I do gas huffing it's fast, dangerous but fast.
I cannot believe any person with a normal intelligence can imagine a player stays in front of his pc pressing dscan to avoid ganking while it takes half an hour of mining to have a little value.
No one can imagine that persons stay 100% of their time in front of their pc pressing d-scan for hours for a little amount of value.
No one would do it more than a couple of days without quitting the game.
It's impossible in my opinion that developers justify ganking because hisec players are supposed to see a mining laser of a ship for hours pressing dscan to avoid ganking.
It's something too stupid. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:39:33 -
[148] - Quote
ITS really a lot of stuff to change for better when I think about that now.
I get its like a completely other game. Can EVE become it one day? Hmmm, i dont have anything to lose, i will wait and see.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
ISD Max Trix
isd community communications liaisons
286
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 16:44:52 -
[149] - Quote
Thread closed for redundancy. The ganker anti ganker debate is a battle fought longer than the Forever War.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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