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Can BoB truly be defeated?

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Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:28:00 - [1] Its a question i have wondered about since i read Seleene's post about why they have never taken a contract against BoB. Flames aside (please) the reason they gave is that there has never been a concrete and workable plan to destroy them. As most people know, Eve pvp used to be 80% skills 20% finance, but has increasingly become 70% finance and 30% skills as capital ship pilots become more commen and the fittings and fighting style become more homogonised. With this in mind, truly how badly can BoB be beaten? If they have all of their space and stations taken, all of their shipyards destroyed, will this have a significant effect on boB as a pvp force and a unit? Carriers and dreads are both easily and cheaply purchased from low sec empire and with an alliance that has an extensive T2 BPO collection BoB are capable of producing enough ISK to be able to fund large scale war for as long as they desire. The only real ship that (so far) hasn't been produced by private industry is the titan and as fleets become more and more soley made from capital ships the titans role as a weapon becomes less poignant and would be used as more of a logistical ship. Reading an alt flamethread a couple of weeks ago one of the claims that was made was the attack of low sec industry corps of D2's and destroying their low sec pos industrial base. Regardless of the truth or untruth of this it seems like a damn good idea. Has any of the coalition made a determined effort to attack BoB's industry in empire, and various industrial alt corps? This train of thought led me to look at ASCN which theoretically should have been the same. I havent the knowledge from inside but the impression i got was that they put an awful lot of ISK into producing outposts. Perhaps this ISK would have been better spent on nonedefendable assets rather than ones that are possible to lose. So the base question i suppose would be, with BoB not reliant upon its stations and space in order to fund war, how feasable is it in the lon term to defeat them?
Chip2k3 Energy.	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:32:00 - [2] 1st in a bob thread \o/ sig pending.
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:37:00 - [3] Speaking from my experiance... Alliances are very hard to kill. Even if they lose there space there is plenty of other space in the game to goto. The issue is that when an alliance had a major defeat, you do lose a lot of people. You dont normally stay with the same members and same corps due to the defeat, and people start laying blame on others, and then the internal struggles start. IMO its very hard to get a defeated alliance back on its feet. AXE - Where the men work hard and the girls want to play.
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:37:00 - [4] problem is ppl beat their chest but only really snigg, smash and a few others dare to actually go and annoy bob in their home space , anyone else that does usually ends up NAP'ed to bob after some time
Rui Nosferatu FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:47:00 - [5] Edited by: Rui Nosferatu on 13/03/2007 22:44:14 Quote: 70% finance and 30% skill Are you serious? Put a carebear in a capital ship and its a monumental embarrassment. Do you PVP?
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:54:00 - [6] Originally by: Rui Nosferatu Edited by: Rui Nosferatu on 13/03/2007 22:44:14 Quote: 70% finance and 30% skill Are you serious? Put a carebear in a capital ship and its a monumental embarrassment. Do you PVP? The point i was trying to make is that a lot of fleet battles are done at range with primaries called and fairly set fittings. Now its more a case of being able to replace your losses and get out there than ever before. do you disagree?
Cmd Woodlouse Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:56:00 - [7] im sick of this useless +=("!$(!?$ threads leave it be alrdy and time will tell the outcome --------------------------------
Friday Dillinja Temi Inc	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:56:00 - [8] It is impossible to "defeat" an alliance in eve. At least in theory, since they can keep on fighting without pos based from empire. As i said, in theory. You can, however, "defeat" their will to fight. This is usually accomplished by wtfpwning them again and again, until members lose confidence in their leadership and start dropping out of the alliance to see if the grass on the other side of the fence isnt greener after all. I can't really see that happening to BoB anytime soon, at least not to the core elements of the alliance. However, if the war goes on for months and if the coalition manages to keep up constant pressure on BoB, then i'd say there is a good chance we'll see pet alliances / allies dropping out one after the other. However, all of this relies on the stability of the (whole) coalition and their uncompromised will to focus on BoB until there is no more serious opposition. I don't know if i would bet on that... ------------------------------------ i found out how to edit my signature!
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:01:00 - [9] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg With this in mind, truly how badly can BoB be beaten? If they have all of their space and stations taken, all of their shipyards destroyed, will this have a significant effect on boB as a pvp force and a unit? Yes. No doubt they could continue fighting forever, but if you take their capital shipyards they will lose a lot of isk, and a lot of hard work. Their morale will drop, and their pride will be stolen. Will it be the end of the alliance? Probably not. But it will be a victory for their enemies, probably enough of one to quench the bloodlust. Shamis
Anaximander Monk Mandala Group	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg alliance that has an extensive T2 BPO collection Not for long.
Prophet Malcalypse3 Amarr Her Golden Apple Corps	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:34:00 - [11] no
Virida Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:39:00 - [12] As the OP tells: remove BOB's ability to make ISK, and you remove their winning chance. Since this mmo grows in players, bob will fall, unless they plan to house 100k players in their territories. Sooner or later, those 100k would say "peekaboo!" at bob.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:39:00 - [13] You can take their space. They'll just move into someone else's space though. Hell, id consider them more dangerous without space then with space, while they have space that they're looking to keep they would become more predictable and easier to hit. ----- $Forum + $Bob + $Devs == $ForumPostCount+++++;
Temerlyn Minmatar STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:43:00 - [14] The truth is... It doesn't realy matter. BoB have spin control figued out already. It would be the spin i would use. If bob loose- ...it took blah amount of alliances to take us down... ...we wanted to have a big fight and leave eve with a bang... and other such litanies. If they win (what classes as a win is subjective) ...it took blah amount of alliances to take us down, and we still beat you... ...we wanted to have a big fight and leave eve with a bang, and we still beat you...
niroshido Caldari Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:46:00 - [15] all alliances are vulnerable, there is no invincible alliance, but against BOB you need to have strategy and coordinated efforts remember BOB's main lines of success lay in there ability to alpha strike there targets at key positions in there enemies lines, this includes getting behind enemy lines, the problem with this strategy is closer to home while BOB are fronting there assault in your theatre, you need to successfully mount an assault to either flank there retreat or just plainly attack several systems while they are distracted it is why fighting on more than 1 flank screwed LV over RAGOON could front a massive assault from the north and the west through Immensea, ultimatly they could outflank any retreating forces who tried defending the northern territories of LV space (which was 1st to fall of course) the idea is to strike an area which is either too far away for BOB to get to in time, or to use a diversion while u strike them at there heart if you want to screw them over your best off looking south and old ascn space, the flank is open there as D2 is taking the attention from this area
Hitman396 Caldari Asguard Security Service Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg Can BoB truly be defeated? No. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Jorja Fox Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:03:00 - [17] All you would do if successful like JF said , is turn them into a massive roaming fleet that would be capable of quickly killing off an alliance and taking there region .. It's a far better scenario to leave them in there own space , then to have that firepower on the roam .... imo anyway
TRYPTIC	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:03:00 - [18] BoB plays chess quite well - when attacked frontally, counter on the flanks or rear. When attacked on the flank or rear, attack frontally. This is a generalization, but it's applicable to most strategy/RTS games.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:10:00 - [19] Originally by: TRYPTIC BoB plays chess quite well - when attacked frontally, counter on the flanks or rear. When attacked on the flank or rear, attack frontally. This is a generalization, but it's applicable to most strategy/RTS games. So is Zerg rushing. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Wraithstorm Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:13:00 - [20] In my humble opinion, if BOB are the type of Alliance that is defined by its pilots, and leadership and NOT by a piece of land or regions then I dont think they will ever be beaten. They are by far IMO one of the best pvp entities in existance, and if they can hold themselves together after they lose their space, IF they lose their space, then I think the world will see a raiding entity from hell... I dont see BOB losing their main chunk of land though. Esoteria, Feyth and stuff, yea, but the Coalition thats supposed to be hitting them from the East is already dwindling, so soon its gonna be D2 and company vs BOB and Company, and thats going to end in a stalement. Just my 2 cents
Elienia Serenity of EvE R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:40:00 - [21] That looks soo funny... i will leave eve, they will leave eve, you will leave eve, he will leave eve... lol... Of course Bob cant be defeated... they are pilots who fight together, and the most experimented and skilled pilots so far... and not a region... Those players wont stop to play and leave eve anyway... with the regions or without them, you cant kill Bob... Do you really think you will kill Bob and they will go to empire or apply in Goon ROFL??... Anyway, have a look 5 weeks of war, coalition looks already stupid, fall in pieces and all they do is to give some phew phew fun to Bob... and an insane kill ration... Open your eyes
Trinity Faetal Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:46:00 - [22] stfu go kill them and find out -- Enjoy The Silence
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.14 01:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain You can take their space. They'll just move into someone else's space though. Hell, id consider them more dangerous without space then with space, while they have space that they're looking to keep they would become more predictable and easier to hit. Just like you said LV would be - right?
NIkis Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.03.14 01:11:00 - [24] of course they can be beaten how? it's obvious :)
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.14 01:38:00 - [25] Does a bear crap in the woods? There's your answer...
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2007.03.14 02:03:00 - [26] Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 14/03/2007 02:03:18 Its been said before that theres 3 alliances that can never be made to break up. Goons, because they are a brotherhood, and without the swarm they feel the game loses much of its meaning. Red Alliance, because they are an alliance built in adversity, and BOB, because they genuinely believe they are superior. However, analyse that a little closer. No matter how much you kill the goons or put them in empire, they'll just make crazy clown wars or use it as an oportunity for mad fun. Red alliance just gets stronger when they get hurt. Angrier and more cunning even. RA know about hurt, and RA know about rising above it stronger than before. But if you take away BOB's "superiority", then what have they got? Theres room in empire for either RA/GOON or BOB, but not both. Problem is, one of those would survive it, the other wouldnt. Think about it. edit: The Alliance dwindling? Where do you people get this nonsense from? ONE small corp leaves due to a possibly resolvable spat, and its all over. Hate to say it chicken little, but the Alliance is still entirely capable of fielding some verry large forces. During the LV war, AAA kept out of play. For the BOB war, AAA have come to the party. Im not sure how one could paint that as "dwindling". Remember, for a coalition thats currently on a R&R break between wars, they are STILL taking stations and STILL running amok. Ever been to querious lately? Damn things a mess of IRON , AAA, Goons and friends, and the war against BOB hasn even formally started yet.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.14 03:18:00 - [27] I would not be fighting against BoB if I did not think they could be defeated.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.14 03:26:00 - [28] 'On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero'
Wraithstorm Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.03.14 03:44:00 - [29] Quote: edit: The Alliance dwindling? Where do you people get this nonsense from? ONE small corp leaves due to a possibly resolvable spat, and its all over. Hate to say it chicken little, but the Alliance is still entirely capable of fielding some verry large forces. During the LV war, AAA kept out of play. For the BOB war, AAA have come to the party. Im not sure how one could paint that as "dwindling". Remember, for a coalition thats currently on a R&R break between wars, they are STILL taking stations and STILL running amok. Ever been to querious lately? Damn things a mess of IRON , AAA, Goons and friends, and the war against BOB hasn even formally started yet. Im pretty sure this was directed at me so Ill give you my response. Now, from looking at these forums and reading up on things I can see that Chorus of Dawn, and Youwhat have both left The Northern Front, and SMASHKILL and RA are about to go at it. That my friend in my eyes is dwindling. Hell if one Corporation leaves your Coalition then that in fact in itself is dwindling. Nowhere in my post did I question your Coalitions Fleet capabilities so read before you troll young one. So if Im Chicken Little your Goosey Loosey My son watches the damn movie too much.
Sokhar Amarr The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.14 04:24:00 - [30] there is only one man who can solve this debate, LEEEROOOOY JEEEENKIIINS
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.14 04:29:00 - [31] Of course BoB can be defeated, but it's all relative and it's entirely possible nobody will be willing to put in the effort to get them to consider themselves defeated. http://eve.klaki.net/
Sokhar Amarr The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.14 04:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Of course BoB can be defeated, but it's all relative and it's entirely possible nobody will be willing to put in the effort to get them to consider themselves defeated. How can you kill that which has no life?
Tarace CEO Caldari ME15	Posted - 2007.03.14 07:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Sorja If BoB loses it's core systems, they'll be defeated, simple as that. There's no such thing as 'retreat to Empire' for them. They'll fight to the death for Delve and if they fail their name will be history. Remember this reply begins with 'if'. They are far from defeated. The coalition first goals are nearly achieved, taking directly on BoB will come in time and those will be interesting times indeed. Isnt their core system a NPC system ? Coalition is pretty active on forums and we could easly believe that they have the upper hand and will destroy bob... However, when I see the bob killboard, I see desillusion. I dislike superpowers but I must say, I don't believe bob will break on that one.
Tarace CEO Caldari ME15	Posted - 2007.03.14 07:21:00 - [34] Originally by: Sokhar Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Of course BoB can be defeated, but it's all relative and it's entirely possible nobody will be willing to put in the effort to get them to consider themselves defeated. How can you kill that which has no life? qft!
Omber Zombie Gallente Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2007.03.14 07:23:00 - [35] Originally by: Sokhar Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Of course BoB can be defeated, but it's all relative and it's entirely possible nobody will be willing to put in the effort to get them to consider themselves defeated. How can you kill that which has no life? I read these forums and die a little everyday... ---------------------- FTEK \| Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Election Fixing
Garia666 Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.14 08:06:00 - [36] I hope not.. Altough i do not know many BoB its the one of the few allliance`s that i have respect for. ->My Vids<- CCP= More skilz more moneh!
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.14 08:33:00 - [37] Ganking BoB's entire POS network in 0.0 will in fact increse their T2 profits through the roof.
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.14 09:21:00 - [38] Originally by: Cmd Woodlouse im sick of this useless +=("!$(!?$ threads leave it be alrdy and time will tell the outcome QFT Stop makign this crappy threads. You could try something new for a change and fit a gun on a ship and actually do this pee vee pee.
Orange Speceis Destructive Infleunce	Posted - 2007.03.16 03:30:00 - [39] We are gonna have npc dreads attack d2 pos's again... by again I mean bob + npc dreads will attack d2 player owned stations for the 2nd time
probablecause Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.16 03:48:00 - [40] Originally by: Orange Speceis We are gonna have npc dreads attack d2 pos's again... by again I mean bob + npc dreads will attack d2 player owned stations for the 2nd time Dear Mods, Please ban this Troll. Sincerly, Probablecause
Le Cardinal ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:06:00 - [41] This would be a very interesting discussion if we could have avoided all the accusations of cheating/exploiting and alts derailing every thread. Question to op will then be. How do u define defeat. If you define defeat as loss of all territory, then yes its entirely possible. Either by limiting resources (which bob definately have enough of) or BoB just say sod it and leave their regions. The total defeat of an alliance requires to take their territory and break the alliance up. First option is quite possible. Seond option is much harder. Even if the large alliances get defeated, it will be only temporary if their capfleet and resources are intact. Most likely an alliance dies when all its resouces are removed, capfleet crushed and morale totally broken. But destroying BoB is possible, but very hard and time/resource consuming. Would be cool if ppl didnt flame these threads. They could be interesting then. Unfortunately some ppl will always derail these threads into a flamefest.
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:19:00 - [42] I have a clear cut master plan on how to defeat BoB and reduce their alliance to rubble but I need 8 bill from you before I will initiate discussions on revealing The Wei! I will also expect you to pay me 100 bill after they r dead. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.

Ivan Kirilenkov Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:27:00 - [43] Please refrain from accusations about cheating - it's not only off topic, but it's also trolling and will be dealt with as such. If you suspect or believe someone has cheated, petition it to the GMs and let Internal Affairs deal with it. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

Dr Shameless Skull Soft	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:34:00 - [44] dont know if you can defeat them but you can make them homeless for sure :)
Marla Durden Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:35:00 - [45] Originally by: Graalum 'On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero' Great words! Perhaps BoB has the answer to the question: The death of an entity by DigitalCommunist
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:38:00 - [46] tbh I would define the defeat of BoB to be the breakup of the alliance as a name, and the infighting of its corps either verbally or via pew pew. Total destruction of an alliance is something that can be akin to ISS or ASCN I think, as apose to stain empire who lived on after a fashion and still hang around in some shape and form. What i was trying to get at I suppose is that with fleets soon to be mostly based on capitals rather than bs's and with the solid financial backbone linked with easy empire availability of capital ships that BoB has, how can they militarily be beaten? Replacement of losses is something that is a given rather than a grind. IMO ASCN broke up because it was full of people trying to make themselves a buck in nice "safe" space and when it became time to fight a lot slined of to empire with their assets intact. I cant see this happening with BoB as the wealth is based with the leaders, and the leaders will always want to be leaders. If anything I can imagine BoB's resolve strengthening when their space is lost because i think everyone agrees that pos wars are ftl.
Angry Dan Caldari Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.16 12:24:00 - [47] Edited by: Angry Dan on 16/03/2007 12:22:12 Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please refrain from accusations about cheating - it's not only off topic, but it's also trolling and will be dealt with as such. If you suspect or believe someone has cheated, petition it to the GMs and let Internal Affairs deal with it. The problem here is that no one here believes CCP can effectivley police themselves, internal affairs department or not. An example would the the whole band of devs thing. The executor corp of BOB uses the corp ticker [DEVS]. And did so well before the corruption scandal broke. No one believes that that will ever change. Yet, anyone who mentions it on the forums gets their post removed for trolling. Justice must be seen to be fair and equitable. And above all must be actually seen. I fully expect I'll get a nice email and an edited post after this, but you know what? I don't care anymore. Sorry to the orignial (alt) poster. Your right, BoB (or BoD or BloB or whatever unhumorous acronym you care to choose) are hard to defeat. But it canbe done. Take the fall of ASCN for example. They broke up because there morale shattered. Oh, and don't think we aren't wise to BoBs current plan to shatter our morale. This very post is an example of the psycholgical warfare BoB is famed for. By planting the seeds of doubt into your enemies minds, you weaken their resolve. Your military might is built on your resolve to continue. And like a house built on quicksand, it will collapse if the foundations break. After all, the pen (or forum whoring alt) is mightier than the sword. D2 is built on Tetonic resolve. And the only thing stronger than that is British resolve. Founder member of the Huzzah Federation. Remember, the grass is greener on our side of the fence Originally by: Butter Dog Good Sportsmanship > Winning.
Angry Dan Caldari Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.16 12:25:00 - [48] Edited by: Angry Dan on 16/03/2007 12:21:56 double posting, yet more proof I'm an e-tard Founder member of the Huzzah Federation. Remember, the grass is greener on our side of the fence Originally by: Butter Dog Good Sportsmanship > Winning.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 14:22:00 - [49] Sorry guys, I had to....... CHEESE FEST! --------
Isonkon Serikain Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.16 18:30:00 - [50] There is only one way to destroy BoB... Stop offering them targets. Pity the fool
Angry Dan Caldari Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.16 19:29:00 - [51] Originally by: Isonkon Serikain There is only one way to destroy BoB... Stop offering them targets. But where is the fun in that? Founder member of the Huzzah Federation. Remember, the grass is greener on our side of the fence Originally by: Butter Dog Good Sportsmanship > Winning.
FlailofFury Slanik Corp	Posted - 2007.03.16 21:15:00 - [52] Edited by: FlailofFury on 16/03/2007 21:11:52 Originally by: Patch86 Sorry guys, I had to....... CHEESE FEST! Strangely accurate in all descriptions :O
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.16 21:41:00 - [53] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg As most people know, Eve pvp used to be 80% skills 20% finance, but has increasingly become 70% finance and 30% skills as capital ship pilots become more commen and the fittings and fighting style become more homogonised. You make that statement as if it where some kind of fact. Curious. Did you pluck those percentages out of thin air or are these 'facts' based on some kind of objective analysis we're not aware of? ----------
Gabba Species 5618	Posted - 2007.03.16 23:40:00 - [54] Lets say BoB loses their space, they move someplace else and 18 10/10 complexes will be magically introduced into the new region they occupy. Oh wait that already happened maybe 10 complexes would be better
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.16 23:56:00 - [55] Originally by: Angry Dan Edited by: Angry Dan on 16/03/2007 12:22:12 Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please refrain from accusations about cheating - it's not only off topic, but it's also trolling and will be dealt with as such. If you suspect or believe someone has cheated, petition it to the GMs and let Internal Affairs deal with it. The problem here is that no one here believes CCP can effectivley police themselves, internal affairs department or not. So why are you still playing? Why do any of you still play? You accuse us, me, "BoD" of "cheating", yet you do not trust the "referees" (who have far more invested in this enterprise than both of us put together) to validate who is playing fair and who is not. I wouldn't play a game that I thought was stacked against me, it's why I don't gamble, so why on earth are you wasting your time playing? Is it the same reason you're wasting my bandwidth in reading it... just "because"? There's a reason we're all still playing, what's YOUR reason for still playing? Originally by: Kay Han @ BoD hahahahahahahaha we onwed yaaaaaaaa I may be a Bo[D], but I still killed your titan.
Milena Marich	Posted - 2007.03.17 00:01:00 - [56] Originally by: Dianabolic There's a reason we're all still playing, what's YOUR reason for still playing? To read posts from criminals like you.... maybe?
Frygok Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.17 00:09:00 - [57] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Angry Dan Edited by: Angry Dan on 16/03/2007 12:22:12 Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please refrain from accusations about cheating - it's not only off topic, but it's also trolling and will be dealt with as such. If you suspect or believe someone has cheated, petition it to the GMs and let Internal Affairs deal with it. The problem here is that no one here believes CCP can effectivley police themselves, internal affairs department or not. So why are you still playing? Why do any of you still play? You accuse us, me, "BoD" of "cheating", yet you do not trust the "referees" (who have far more invested in this enterprise than both of us put together) to validate who is playing fair and who is not. I wouldn't play a game that I thought was stacked against me, it's why I don't gamble, so why on earth are you wasting your time playing? Is it the same reason you're wasting my bandwidth in reading it... just "because"? There's a reason we're all still playing, what's YOUR reason for still playing? Question is Diana, why should we believe them? And frankly, why should you? Need I mention the FIX guy who was banned for a while, because he shot down a GM? It took an uproar, and several very vocal posts from yourself to get some info and stuff done. Yes, CCP claim they would have reached the same conclusion, only slower, without our help. But how do we know? And, if we continue the line of thought that you guys were indeed without any blame or knowledge regarding the Dev in charge of your cap fleet and loading tech 2 BPOs for you, then frankly, I would be royally ****ed if I were you. Huge reputation damage, clueless posts from the devs, where your roles were not being specified as innocent. Not to mention it took an alt to expose this cheater. All in all, I don't feel that CCP has been up to the task. And I must admit, I am surprised that you feel that they done a good job on the matters. Not to mention, I haven't seen any sort of ruleset being made regarding devs/GM's and their roles in alliances, if they are allowed to reimburst fellow allies stuff, or enemy ships. Why am I still playing? I still have faith that CCP will somehow rise to the challenge and remove all cheaters from the game, regardless of alliance name and corp tag, so we can have an even playing field.
Jordan Musgrat Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.17 00:15:00 - [58] Originally by: Marla Durden Originally by: Graalum 'On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero' Great words! Perhaps BoB has the answer to the question: The death of an entity by DigitalCommunist Sad that nobody read this before posting.... Click the linky, it is the end answer. ----------- Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0...
Lord XSiV Amarr The Nine Gates	Posted - 2007.03.17 00:17:00 - [59] Edited by: Lord XSiV on 17/03/2007 00:15:49 Edited by: Lord XSiV on 17/03/2007 00:14:33 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Angry Dan Edited by: Angry Dan on 16/03/2007 12:22:12 Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please refrain from accusations about cheating - it's not only off topic, but it's also trolling and will be dealt with as such. If you suspect or believe someone has cheated, petition it to the GMs and let Internal Affairs deal with it. The problem here is that no one here believes CCP can effectivley police themselves, internal affairs department or not. So why are you still playing? Why do any of you still play? You accuse us, me, "BoD" of "cheating", yet you do not trust the "referees" (who have far more invested in this enterprise than both of us put together) to validate who is playing fair and who is not. I wouldn't play a game that I thought was stacked against me, it's why I don't gamble, so why on earth are you wasting your time playing? Is it the same reason you're wasting my bandwidth in reading it... just "because"? There's a reason we're all still playing, what's YOUR reason for still playing? This is why bob are so good. Bob doesn't think they are better, they know they are better. They are smarter; in fact much smarter than their opponents when it comes to strategy and tactics. They are more honorable; don't rely on lame excuses to explain failure. Most importantly: They actually acknolwedge this is just a game. The only other entity in Eve that is impressive just so happens to be RA/aaa. They have managed to convince several entities to play the role of 'meatshield' (d2/iron, goons, even Burn Eden and a bunch of others) ensuring that they can maintain their own operations with little fanfare. So kudos to them on their social engineering, especially considering the language barrier and that most people know that it generally isn't a good idea to trust russians :)
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.17 00:43:00 - [60] Originally by: Frygok Question is Diana, why should we believe them? And frankly, why should you? This is the crux of my point though, if we don't believe them, why do we play? Originally by: Kay Han @ BoD hahahahahahahaha we onwed yaaaaaaaa I may be a Bo[D], but I still killed your titan.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.17 01:30:00 - [61] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Frygok Question is Diana, why should we believe them? And frankly, why should you? This is the crux of my point though, if we don't believe them, why do we play? I suppose the simple answer is that, however you feel about the devs, this game is still the best MMO out there, from a content perspective. If I wasn't playing this, what would I be playing? My trust in CCP took a big hit from the whole scandal fiasco, and that kind of thing takes a VERY long time to undo. That doesn't detract from what EVE actually is, though. --------
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.17 01:39:00 - [62] Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Frygok Question is Diana, why should we believe them? And frankly, why should you? This is the crux of my point though, if we don't believe them, why do we play? I suppose the simple answer is that, however you feel about the devs, this game is still the best MMO out there, from a content perspective. If I wasn't playing this, what would I be playing? My trust in CCP took a big hit from the whole scandal fiasco, and that kind of thing takes a VERY long time to undo. That doesn't detract from what EVE actually is, though. Nailed, in more ways than one. EvE IS the best mmo on the market, is, and will be for a very long time, CCP are decades ahead of the competition. So, I ask you: What gives the "whiners" the ammunition to accuse the publishers of the best mmo around, of being "rigged"? It's the words of CCP itself!! If t20 had not admitted this, if CCP had not published his guilt, all we would be left with is that which we had for the years prior..., "wha wha wha" CCP have ALWAYS been honest with the playerbase, ALWAYS. 100% of the time. To be honest I (RKK) would have preferred that the t20 affair remained untold, but CCP won't have that. It's against their ethos. And now, whatever we say, is tarnished. So be it. Feel free to take your grievances out on BoB, we welcome the challenge, you really can BRING IT! CCP, however, gave us this sandbox, either play the game, or do not - but the whining about cheating is gettting old. Cya on the battlefield, whether you live or die is down to you, and nothing to do with CCP. if you do not believe that, you should not be playing. Originally by: Kay Han @ BoD hahahahahahahaha we onwed yaaaaaaaa I may be a Bo[D], but I still killed your titan.
Stockarian eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.17 01:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Dianabolic And now, whatever we say, is tarnished. So be it. In your words the truth shall be heard? To save time, why don't you avoid the facts and get right to the spin.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.17 01:53:00 - [64] Originally by: Stockarian Originally by: Dianabolic And now, whatever we say, is tarnished. So be it. In your words the truth shall be heard? There is no truth, Stockarian, only what we believe. You're welcome to ask me, in-game, of this whole event, I'm happy to answer - but on the forums? What's the point? Originally by: Kay Han @ BoD hahahahahahahaha we onwed yaaaaaaaa I may be a Bo[D], but I still killed your titan.
Luthien Firefoot Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.17 02:19:00 - [65] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Frygok Question is Diana, why should we believe them? And frankly, why should you? This is the crux of my point though, if we don't believe them, why do we play? The main reason I play this game is to see the BOB ticker die. The reason for this is not because you killed me, I've killed and been killed by all kind of ppl in this game, pirates , 1v1, fleets , small gangs, medium gangs, lag, ctd, mistakes on my part, mistakes on enemy part, it's all part of the brilliance of this game. What makes me hate BOB, and freely admit to that emotion, is the low down, dirty way that you operate - as a for instance I give a ship to one of your pilots (Bella Fea) coz he is stranded in vfk and a few days later he tells me that it's clear to warp to a gate and a bunch of BS and tacklers jump in and kill my ratting bs. One year, or more down the line and the same guy uses what u call 'social grooming' and what I call 'lying' to pretend he is a friend and over a period of a month or so gets access to pos and offlines one and allows BOB to jump in and destroy what a lot of ppl have worked hard for. Some might say 'haha' and that's ok, coz it's a game and you play it how you see fit. What I say Mr Dianabolic is that what you see at the moment in eve is a lot of ppl saying 'it's not ok' and if you want to fight someone, you should just fight them, toe to toe. To the ppl who may flame my post, please feel free to do so, but maybe before you do, check out my stats on the BOB killboard, I'm no buck rogers but I back up my words with my actions, just like an average IRON pilot. I know what I think you stand for. I stand on the other side.
KIZERIAN Caldari SKORPION CORP Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.03.17 02:31:00 - [66] Originally by: Dianabolic Cya on the battlefield, whether you live or die is down to you, and nothing to do with CCP. [/quote And if say we were ever to meet on the battlefield - ya know the one thats supposed to be a level playing field - Tell me would you perhaps be useing some T2 ammo made from them magic bpos you had for 6 months? Kizer
zeroh Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.17 03:33:00 - [67] Originally by: Friday Dillinja It is impossible to "defeat" an alliance in eve. At least in theory, since they can keep on fighting without pos based from empire. As i said, in theory. You can, however, "defeat" their will to fight. This is usually accomplished by wtfpwning them again and again, until members lose confidence in their leadership and start dropping out of the alliance to see if the grass on the other side of the fence isnt greener after all. I can't really see that happening to BoB anytime soon, at least not to the core elements of the alliance. However, if the war goes on for months and if the coalition manages to keep up constant pressure on BoB, then i'd say there is a good chance we'll see pet alliances / allies dropping out one after the other. However, all of this relies on the stability of the (whole) coalition and their uncompromised will to focus on BoB until there is no more serious opposition. I don't know if i would bet on that... WTF are you talkin about Alliances die all the time Venal ALliance 03/04 (fought fe alot) NVA 04/04 (It fight fe alot) Phoenix Alliance (cant rmb when it lived n died) Fountain Alliance (died and came back to life couple times) Curse Alliance (former one led by votf shinra russians etc) died in 04 Xetic Alliance Stain Alliance (former led by MASS + others) Stain Empire Forces of EVIL The Pirate Syndicate Ganksta Nation CDC Imperium (votf + friends) Just a Short List of all the dead Alliance on top my head you could Argue some these arent dead but there hella inactive and not a potent Military force as they use to be, So there you go proof Alliances die all the time Some big runners were CA and Stain back in 03 Alot of people would agree CA in 03 was very powerful and large and people didnt think it could die, but it did, and when it dies the Corps involved lose members and Migrate and pursue their own path and become etc or form new corps under new name. So will BoB they will one day die and become BOBBY whether it by the Coalition or Molle quits and robs them or TWD calls everyone a F@g and robs them or the major corps dont get along etc. snip, your sig exceeds 24000 bytes and lacks sufficient EVE content. -HornFrog
Salr Ayshuermei ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.17 04:11:00 - [68] Edited by: Salr Ayshuermei on 17/03/2007 04:07:36 And now, whatever we say, is tarnished. So be it. I am surprised that you take cheating so lightly. I always felt that bob pride itself on clean and fair play. Or at least that's what you guys say all the time. KSUdruid once stated that he rather quit the alliance than stick around if it can be proven that bob had cheated. Well there is no question that cheating has occured. CCP has stated that as clearly as possible. Yet, I don't see any members from bob who is willing to face the facts. It's clear you guys are in a great state of denial. You don't want to admit that maybe, just maybe, everything you accomplished wasn't through skill or dedication, but rather through exploiting and cheating. Perhaps you have all lived in a lie for so long that you're starting to believe in it yourself. You believe that you're right all the time, and even when CCP tells you that cheating had occurred you still refuse to believe it. It takes a lot to see the truth. To be honest with yourself and to be able to admit a mistake. To lie to others is but a sin, to lie to oneself is a great tragedy.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.17 04:20:00 - [69] Originally by: Dianabolic Feel free to take your grievances out on BoB, we welcome the challenge, you really can BRING IT! CCP, however, gave us this sandbox, either play the game, or do not - but the whining about cheating is gettting old. Cya on the battlefield, whether you live or die is down to you, and nothing to do with CCP. if you do not believe that, you should not be playing. Nobody thinks ccp is 100% corrupt, so even if it is a little bit rigged, its still possible to kill bob. Which is why we still play.
Imran Fate.	Posted - 2007.03.17 05:05:00 - [70] Go imran. EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful Ch33z0rs: Pirating is such a harsh term. I prefer unil
Paladineguru Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.17 06:27:00 - [71] Originally by: Sokhar How can you kill that which has no life? rend it into a thousand tiney pieces then ******* burn each one of the little bastards till its ash in the wind friend , works for the undead too.
adam 121	Posted - 2007.03.17 08:58:00 - [72] Originally by: Salr Ayshuermei It's clear you guys are in a great state of denial. You don't want to admit that maybe, just maybe, everything you accomplished wasn't through skill or dedication, but rather through exploiting and cheating. Perhaps you have all lived in a lie for so long that you're starting to believe in it yourself. You believe that you're right all the time, and even when CCP tells you that cheating had occurred you still refuse to believe it. tbh that is a load of conceited hypocrisy. You are the one that is starting to believe your OMGWTFBOBHAX lies. In the whole scheme of things that incident is completely irrelevant. Yet the coalition has abused this incident, magnifying it thousands of times, to trick people into joining your bandwagon. FFS your post is pretty rich given that you come from an alliance whose main tactics against bob include POS spamming and staying docked. While you are at it, when will D2 come out and admit that BoB killed your titan with a cunning and well executed plan? You guys are so caught up in your lies that the spy had to deliberately out himself on your forums to put an end to your pathetic BoB exploit drivel.
Friday Dillinja Temi Inc	Posted - 2007.03.17 09:56:00 - [73] Originally by: zeroh WTF are you talkin about Alliances die all the time No really? Let's take a look at what you quoted then, shall we? Originally by: Friday Dillinja It is impossible to "defeat" an alliance in eve. At least in theory, since they can keep on fighting without pos based from empire. As i said, in theory. Hint: Note how "in theory" sometimes conflict with "in reality". Then you go on saying pretty much the same thing I've said before: Originally by: zeroh Just a Short List of all the dead Alliance on top my head you could Argue some these arent dead but there hella inactive and not a potent Military force as they use to be, So there you go proof Alliances die all the time Some big runners were CA and Stain back in 03 Alot of people would agree CA in 03 was very powerful and large and people didnt think it could die, but it did, and when it dies the Corps involved lose members and Migrate and pursue their own path and become etc or form new corps under new name. So will BoB they will one day die and become BOBBY whether it by the Coalition or Molle quits and robs them or TWD calls everyone a F@g and robs them or the major corps dont get along etc. Originally by: Friday Dillinja You can, however, "defeat" their will to fight. This is usually accomplished by wtfpwning them again and again, until members lose confidence in their leadership and start dropping out of the alliance to see if the grass on the other side of the fence isnt greener after all. Seriously, that's just saing the same thing in other words. Also... Originally by: zeroh Venal ALliance 03/04 (fought fe alot) I know. Evolution, Xanadu, Cornexant and friends killed them. It was a lot of fun. And it proves the point: VA crumbled from within. There was a huge rift between TTi (and support) and Jade (and support). Luckily, Ragnar pulled a Ragnar and Jade liked power a lot. :) Originally by: zero NVA 04/04 (It fight fe alot) Would've been fun if Anla had taken it, but meh... :/ Originally by: zeroh Fountain Alliance (died and came back to life couple times) My point proven again. Previous to the BoB invasion, there were several internal incidents that left FA seriously weakened. For example, the Xanadu Split, where most of the experienced PvP'ers left to form their own corp and later merge with ATUK. However, I wasn't around when FA died, so I can't comment on the invasion itself. Originally by: zero Curse Alliance (former one led by votf shinra russians etc) died in 04 Was "dead" in a military category quite a few times - but they just refused to die. And became strong again. And again. Seriously, CA was pretty much every horror movie's badass zombie of EVE. The alliance ceased to exist after years of pretty much constant warfare. etc. etc... No alliance dies from one day to another purely to military pressure. There's always a few more layers of internal and external reasons. Alliances die, when their members decide to give up. And that was my point. ------------------------------------ i found out how to edit my signature!
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:10:00 - [74] Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/03/2007 12:08:34 It's all based on morale. Eve warfare is based solely around the grunt pvp'ers will to logon and shoot stuff. If things are going badly they'll choose to do something else. You need to win many consecutive engagements against an entity like BoB before the crasks start to show. Problem is they're one of the best pvp groups in the game so actualy doing so isn't exactly easy. Win a bunch of victories one after the other or take alot of their space and keep the avalanche rolling. The pressure must be kept up in a coordinated fashion. If you chuck fleets away and don't coordinate attacks with allies then they'll get more kills and more confidence. The industry, finance and shiny ships are simpily a means to an end. They don't win wars by existing. It's pretty simple.
Cpt Psycho The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:30:00 - [75] Originally by: Salr Ayshuermei Edited by: Salr Ayshuermei on 17/03/2007 04:07:36 And now, whatever we say, is tarnished. So be it. I am surprised that you take cheating so lightly. I always felt that bob pride itself on clean and fair play. Or at least that's what you guys say all the time. KSUdruid once stated that he rather quit the alliance than stick around if it can be proven that bob had cheated. Well there is no question that cheating has occured. CCP has stated that as clearly as possible. Yet, I don't see any members from bob who is willing to face the facts. It's clear you guys are in a great state of denial. You don't want to admit that maybe, just maybe, everything you accomplished wasn't through skill or dedication, but rather through exploiting and cheating. Perhaps you have all lived in a lie for so long that you're starting to believe in it yourself. You believe that you're right all the time, and even when CCP tells you that cheating had occurred you still refuse to believe it. It takes a lot to see the truth. To be honest with yourself and to be able to admit a mistake. To lie to others is but a sin, to lie to oneself is a great tragedy. You really don't have a clue do you? Feel free to visit me in game and I will be happy to smack you with my 425mm T2 clue gun. BOB got some t2 ammo BPO's which has already been admitted to by the CCP employee that did it. I don't think BOB is in denial about this at all. To say that everything they created has been done by "exploiting and cheating" because of this one event is absolutely idiotic. I absolutely cannot stand anymore all you people whining and crying on the forums because of one small (yes I would call some t2 ammo BPO's small) event where ONE dev cheated. You little cry babies think because of that one incident that everything BOB has accomplished was because of "haxsploiting" and it is really starting to **** me off. Why don't you admit or atleast realize that they are at the level they currently are at because of SKILL? You people would rather cry and whine about haxsploiting and such instead of actually giving them the credit they deserve. Has anyone noticed that 70% or more of the coalition is nothing but whiners? I sure have and that stance is just making you guys (the coalition) look like a bunch of spoiled 3 year old cry babies who are making up for their lack of skill by screaming and balling on the forums. (I am not saying all of the coalition is like this but a vast majority is - maybe even not a vast majority but the cry babies post 1000% times more than the good pilots which makes it look this way - something I would say needs fixed by coalition leadership if they at all value their image). Seriously, grow up and give respect where it is deserved. I know I (along with many many others) have absolutely no problem respecting my enemies when respect is due. BOB definately deserves some respect for all that they have accomplished and all this crying and whining by the coalition just proves how low and maybe even desperate they are. The outrageous amount of smacktards is just making the coalition look worse and worse. It is not making more people join your side no matter how many of the 13 year old coalition ball babies who post here 50 times a day with each post crying about "BOD HAXSPLOITS!!" think it is. Give respect where respect is due!! With that said, there is definately numerous capable alliances and pilots within the coalition that have my utmost respect. It's just that all the smacktard 13 year old cry babies that post on the forums are starting to over shadow this which makes many people think the coalition as a whole is like this when it really isn't.
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:32:00 - [76] The answer to the question is much easier.. Only time will tell.
Serial Driller	Posted - 2007.03.17 15:47:00 - [77] First ask yourself this.. If Eve is played by real people, and real people are "choosing" to be part of BoB, then what is the psychological mind set of the average member? In other words, it's more about the mind set of its members than it is the resources or skills at their disposal. If you have a determined individual hell-bent on domination, then even a little corporal can rise to greatness. I'm not slapping a specific label on anything here, but I am trying to point out that strong will and determination is often the best fuel. Take away their space, they'll be nomadic. Take away their ships, they'll build more. Take away their resources, they'll fight in kessies with the same zeal as the kamikaze. The war isn't about what you can take from them because they don't put value in possessions. Possessions and resources are just tools, but not what truly drives them. What it's "really" about is being superior and to attain that no matter what is necessary. I've seen many "BoB"s in many different online worlds. The only thing that I've ever witnessed that was capable of halting this kind of war machine was boredom. Throughout history, the only true way that the greatest empires fell was due to internal failings. Complacency, boredom, whatever. Sometimes, the outer shell is so strong, that the only way a collapse will occur is through implosion.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.17 16:48:00 - [78] Originally by: Serial Driller First ask yourself this.. If Eve is played by real people, and real people are "choosing" to be part of BoB, then what is the psychological mind set of the average member? In other words, it's more about the mind set of its members than it is the resources or skills at their disposal. If you have a determined individual hell-bent on domination, then even a little corporal can rise to greatness. I'm not slapping a specific label on anything here, but I am trying to point out that strong will and determination is often the best fuel. Take away their space, they'll be nomadic. Take away their ships, they'll build more. Take away their resources, they'll fight in kessies with the same zeal as the kamikaze. The war isn't about what you can take from them because they don't put value in possessions. Possessions and resources are just tools, but not what truly drives them. What it's "really" about is being superior and to attain that no matter what is necessary. I've seen many "BoB"s in many different online worlds. The only thing that I've ever witnessed that was capable of halting this kind of war machine was boredom. Throughout history, the only true way that the greatest empires fell was due to internal failings. Complacency, boredom, whatever. Sometimes, the outer shell is so strong, that the only way a collapse will occur is through implosion. I dunno about you, but staring at a POS for hours on end for attackes that never come is boreing as hell to me.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos THE H0RDE	Posted - 2007.03.17 17:28:00 - [79] Originally by: Dianabolic EvE IS the best mmo on the market, is, and will be for a very long time, CCP are decades ahead of the competition. So, I ask you: What gives the "whiners" the ammunition to accuse the publishers of the best mmo around, of being "rigged"? It's the words of CCP itself!! Well the "whiners" have amunition because : -The game was rigged in your behalf. Originally by: Dianabolic If t20 had not admitted this, if CCP had not published his guilt, all we would be left with is that which we had for the years prior..., "wha wha wha" T20 didn't admitted nothing ,we knew of this #$% 5 months after.T20 did escuse after but it was too late he should have come clean with us 5 months ago. Originally by: Dianabolic CCP have ALWAYS been honest with the playerbase, ALWAYS. 100% of the time. To be honest I (RKK) would have preferred that the t20 affair remained untold, but CCP won't have that. It's against their ethos. And now, whatever we say, is tarnished. They said after the lockage/whinage made it clear that the player base wasn't happy with the events.And CCP did well to tell us and to try to rectify the situation ,if they wouldn't tell us #$%& i personally would jump ship. And if you didn¦t say something do you really think that CCP would maintain the same reputation? Originally by: Dianabolic So be it. Feel free to take your grievances out on BoB, we welcome the challenge, you really can BRING IT! CCP, however, gave us this sandbox, either play the game, or do not - but the whining about cheating is gettting old. CCP and the playerbase are one and if you satart saying to the playerbase to leave what do you think that it will happen to EVE? About the cheating getting old ,well bummer until eve dies this will be the new modus operandi when someone want to talk #$% to bob. Originally by: Dianabolic Cya on the battlefield, whether you live or die is down to you, and nothing to do with CCP. if you do not believe that, you should not be playing. See ya on the battlefield,and no i dont believe you ,i'am still playing . I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.
Maria Ozawa	Posted - 2007.03.17 18:05:00 - [80] Originally by: Cpt Psycho You really don't have a clue do you? Feel free to visit me in game and I will be happy to smack you with my 425mm T2 clue gun. BOB got some t2 ammo BPO's which has already been admitted to by the CCP employee that did it. I don't think BOB is in denial about this at all. To say that everything they created has been done by "exploiting and cheating" because of this one event is absolutely idiotic. I absolutely cannot stand anymore all you people whining and crying on the forums because of one small (yes I would call some t2 ammo BPO's small) event where ONE dev cheated. You little cry babies think because of that one incident that everything BOB has accomplished was because of "haxsploiting" and it is really starting to **** me off. Why don't you admit or atleast realize that they are at the level they currently are at because of SKILL? You people would rather cry and whine about haxsploiting and such instead of actually giving them the credit they deserve. Has anyone noticed that 70% or more of the coalition is nothing but whiners? I sure have and that stance is just making you guys (the coalition) look like a bunch of spoiled 3 year old cry babies who are making up for their lack of skill by screaming and balling on the forums. (I am not saying all of the coalition is like this but a vast majority is - maybe even not a vast majority but the cry babies post 1000% times more than the good pilots which makes it look this way - something I would say needs fixed by coalition leadership if they at all value their image). Seriously, grow up and give respect where it is deserved. I know I (along with many many others) have absolutely no problem respecting my enemies when respect is due. BOB definately deserves some respect for all that they have accomplished and all this crying and whining by the coalition just proves how low and maybe even desperate they are. The outrageous amount of smacktards is just making the coalition look worse and worse. It is not making more people join your side no matter how many of the 13 year old coalition ball babies who post here 50 times a day with each post crying about "BOD HAXSPLOITS!!" think it is. Give respect where respect is due!! With that said, there is definately numerous capable alliances and pilots within the coalition that have my utmost respect. It's just that all the smacktard 13 year old cry babies that post on the forums are starting to over shadow this which makes many people think the coalition as a whole is like this when it really isn't. It's interesting how you fail to mention the t2 ship bpo's that were given BoD by t20. Or the massive revenues/PvP advantages such would offer. It would seem downright dishonesty is integral to BoD fanboys as well as BoD themselves.
Dudley Testing Minmatar Primal Element Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.03.17 20:44:00 - [81] Yes, if enough people want it. Simple as that. Member of KOS alliance and Primal Elements corporation.
Macrowarp	Posted - 2007.03.17 21:01:00 - [82] Obligatory alt flame: omg bob rulze, trashy jealous coalition 4the Suuxx!!nine11deathstarz!!
D75485 Underworld Zombies	Posted - 2007.03.17 21:10:00 - [83] bob lol
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.18 06:27:00 - [84] Edited by: Blitz''Krieg on 18/03/2007 06:35:25 Originally by: Angry Dan Edited by: Angry Dan on 16/03/2007 12:22:12 Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov Please refrain from accusations about cheating - it's not only off topic, but it's also trolling and will be dealt with as such. If you suspect or believe someone has cheated, petition it to the GMs and let Internal Affairs deal with it. The problem here is that no one here believes CCP can effectivley police themselves, internal affairs department or not. An example would the the whole band of devs thing. The executor corp of BOB uses the corp ticker [DEVS]. And did so well before the corruption scandal broke. No one believes that that will ever change. Yet, anyone who mentions it on the forums gets their post removed for trolling. Justice must be seen to be fair and equitable. And above all must be actually seen. I fully expect I'll get a nice email and an edited post after this, but you know what? I don't care anymore. Sorry to the orignial (alt) poster. Your right, BoB (or BoD or BloB or whatever unhumorous acronym you care to choose) are hard to defeat. But it canbe done. Take the fall of ASCN for example. They broke up because there morale shattered. Oh, and don't think we aren't wise to BoBs current plan to shatter our morale. This very post is an example of the psycholgical warfare BoB is famed for. By planting the seeds of doubt into your enemies minds, you weaken their resolve. Your military might is built on your resolve to continue. And like a house built on quicksand, it will collapse if the foundations break. After all, the pen (or forum whoring alt) is mightier than the sword. D2 is built on Tetonic resolve. And the only thing stronger than that is British resolve. I think i have stated before but once more for the record. My alts are Steveid and Ast3r0id. I am not biased in any way. I play a game for fun and am interested in the inner meaning, probably due to cronic insomnia. edit: posted as a reaction to the quoted post. After reading the whole thread I wonder wtf people are talking about. If you think BoB are cheating your out of your mind. take these two words and see the bright world of sunshine out there ... "isolated incident"
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.03.18 19:58:00 - [85] Originally by: Temerlyn The truth is... It doesn't realy matter. BoB have spin control figued out already. It would be the spin i would use. If bob loose- ...it took blah amount of alliances to take us down... ...we wanted to have a big fight and leave eve with a bang... and other such litanies. If they win (what classes as a win is subjective) ...it took blah amount of alliances to take us down, and we still beat you... ...we wanted to have a big fight and leave eve with a bang, and we still beat you... Not at all impressed by these supposed spin doctors, who are they? Even SirMolle comes across as a not so distant nephew of Cletus', no perty mouth on him...
Rui Nosferatu FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.18 20:09:00 - [86] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/03/2007 12:08:34 It's all based on morale. Eve warfare is based solely around the grunt pvp'ers will to logon and shoot stuff. If things are going badly they'll choose to do something else. /signed
Raeff Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.18 20:17:00 - [87] Edited by: Raeff on 18/03/2007 20:14:39 Originally by: Joshua Foiritain You can take their space. They'll just move into someone else's space though. Hell, id consider them more dangerous without space then with space, while they have space that they're looking to keep they would become more predictable and easier to hit. look at their past .. this statement is 100% truth .. not believing it will be your most fatal flaw taking their space will not win this war
Etho Demerzel Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.18 20:35:00 - [88] Originally by: Dianabolic What gives the "whiners" the ammunition to accuse the publishers of the best mmo around, of being "rigged"? It's the words of CCP itself!! If t20 had not admitted this, if CCP had not published his guilt, all we would be left with is that which we had for the years prior..., "wha wha wha" CCP have ALWAYS been honest with the playerbase, ALWAYS. 100% of the time. To be honest I (RKK) would have preferred that the t20 affair remained untold, but CCP won't have that. It's against their ethos. And now, whatever we say, is tarnished. So be it. What gave people ammunition to rightfully complain, was the information retrieved by a guy, who was banned for disclosing it. CCP tried its best to bury the event, and, after failing, only admited just the enough of it to prevent the situation from get out of hand. What was left untold and how many half truths were told we will never know, but we can deduce some of them by the divergences between that poor guy allegiances, none of which was ever proved wrong, and what CCP's admited. And surely you didn't want it disclosed. You cheated. Blatantly, unexcusably. And you, as well as all BoB directors, were aware of everything. If CCP had a minimum of respect for their player base they would ban you, and fire the offending devs and GMs. As it is the task of punishing the cheaters rests in the hands of the only ones who have any interest in doing it. Originally by: Dianabolic Feel free to take your grievances out on BoB, we welcome the challenge, you really can BRING IT! CCP, however, gave us this sandbox, either play the game, or do not - but the whining about cheating is gettting old. Cya on the battlefield, whether you live or die is down to you, and nothing to do with CCP. if you do not believe that, you should not be playing. No, what is getting old is "whining" about our "whining", my dear. You screwed it. Take it like men. Meet people in the battlefield. And maybe you can save some face, if you play well and don't exploit again. Bob will not go to eve history as a great alliance that accomplished many things. You can go with a bang and beat your chest all you wish, but you will go to Eve's history as a band of infamous chest beating exploiters, who smack when are winning and make pitiful excuses when you are losing.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.03.18 20:37:00 - [89] Edited by: Nez Perces on 18/03/2007 20:35:57 Originally by: Raeff look at their past .. this statement is 100% truth .. not believing it will be your most fatal flaw taking their space will not win this war The operative word in your post is past. In the past, or at least the past you are talking of where BoB was a nomad entity, there was no need for the static real estate required for dreadnoughts and titans. Nowadays to secure a replenishible capital fleet you need to have a base even if its a temporary one. Just ask MC. (oh thats right you are in MC, you should know) Remove the ability to build capital ships and you remove the ability of an alliance to wage territorial warfare. That goes for any alliance.... BoB or otherwise. Yeah a BoB without territory would be a formidable guerilla force... but we all know the days when guerilla tactics could change the EVE landscape are firmly in the past. Without a base of some kind, BoB's ability to wage eve-wide territorial warfare dies. End of story. BoB can die like any other alliance, its just a case of how badly the forces rallied against them want it to happen. Its just a case of willpower.
BuyN Sell	Posted - 2007.03.18 20:47:00 - [90] Originally by: Dianabolic What gives the "whiners" the ammunition to accuse the publishers of the best mmo around, of being "rigged"? It's the words of CCP itself!! If t20 had not admitted this, if CCP had not published his guilt, all we would be left with is that which we had for the years prior..., "wha wha wha" CCP have ALWAYS been honest with the playerbase, ALWAYS. 100% of the time. To be honest I (RKK) would have preferred that the t20 affair remained untold, but CCP won't have that. It's against their ethos. And now, whatever we say, is tarnished. This might be the most hilarious post ever on CAOD. I'm sure most of us would be upset about the "whining" too if we had a dev run our cap fleet for a while, give us ISK generating materials and also get access to advanced characters on Singularity to test POS mechanics before the general playerbase. None of these things of course give your alliance any advantage in game whatsoever right? You "love" this game so much yet have allowed things to happen in your own company and alliance that sh1t all over it. With fans of EVE like this the game won't be around much longer.
BuyN Sell	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:05:00 - [91] Originally by: Dianabolic If t20 had not admitted this, if CCP had not published his guilt, all we would be left with is that which we had for the years prior..., "wha wha wha" You'd also be left with a few T2 BPO's if I remember correctly.
The Jok3r Hookers From Mars	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:09:00 - [92] Edited by: The Jok3r on 18/03/2007 21:06:37 Originally by: Nez Perces Originally by: Dianabolic To be honest I (RKK) would have preferred that the t20 affair remained untold, but CCP won't have that. Thats a very sad thing to say Diana. Originally by: Dianabolic And now, whatever we say, is tarnished. You are absolutely right. Maybe you ought to answer your own question.. why are you still playing? when everything you (BoB) say will be tarnished. Must be sad to troll games in which one doesn't even play. I might have told you more than I know... "Dont speak english... Ctrl Q Ctrl Q "
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:15:00 - [93] Edited by: Nez Perces on 18/03/2007 21:12:39 Originally by: Jok3r Must be sad to troll games in which one doesn't even play. 15 Euros a month says I'm playing EVE just the way I like it, thankyou very much.
Der Pfaffe KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:55:00 - [94] Originally by: BuyN Sell This might be the most hilarious post ever on CAOD. I'm sure most of us would be upset about the "whining" too if we had a dev run our cap fleet for a while, give us ISK generating materials and also get access to advanced characters on Singularity to test POS mechanics before the general playerbase. None of these things of course give your alliance any advantage in game whatsoever right? Well as far as I am aware it has yet to be proven that BoB knew anything about from where the "ISK generating materials" originated. Repeating the same unproven facts over and over again doesn't make it true... As to the "access to advanced characters" accusation is concerned, I believe other alliances, such as ASCN, were given the same opportunity, but your poor banned little computer geek/hacker hasn't mentioned that fact, so I suppose it is another CCP conspiracy.
Securion Wolfheart Caldari Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:23:00 - [95] How exactly is the BOB members to blame for the actions of a dev? Isnt this all about BOB kicking your asses over and over again and you guys not having any excuses anymore to hate them? BOB will win this one, its in the nature of this game that the best comes out as winners, and as SirMolle said; "Your all dead, you just dont know it yet". Evolution :) Yea yea im a fanboi, pet, whatever... lol. -----====----- Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
BuyN Sell	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:28:00 - [96] Originally by: Der Pfaffe Originally by: BuyN Sell This might be the most hilarious post ever on CAOD. I'm sure most of us would be upset about the "whining" too if we had a dev run our cap fleet for a while, give us ISK generating materials and also get access to advanced characters on Singularity to test POS mechanics before the general playerbase. None of these things of course give your alliance any advantage in game whatsoever right? Well as far as I am aware it has yet to be proven that BoB knew anything about from where the "ISK generating materials" originated. Repeating the same unproven facts over and over again doesn't make it true... As to the "access to advanced characters" accusation is concerned, I believe other alliances, such as ASCN, were given the same opportunity, but your poor banned little computer geek/hacker hasn't mentioned that fact, so I suppose it is another CCP conspiracy. The same information that damned T20 was also released by the same source that showed RKK top brass had knowledge of where he was employed. Now, you can selectively believe only the information that CCP has acknowledged and ignore the rest of the information from the same source or not. I would tend to believe intel from the person because part of it has already been validated by CCP. Just because Diana or fanboi's cry "proof or stfu" means nothing when the accuser has already been validated despite attempts to cover up/ silence him.
Der Pfaffe KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:58:00 - [97] Originally by: BuyN Sell snip Your spiteful little friend also besmirched the good name of another player who's only "crime" was to accept a job as a GM at CCP. The fact is that you and your small brained herd of conspiracy theorists have yet to come up with any real evidence of BoB wrongdoing as far as the dev thing is concerned however shrilly you might shriek about it on the forums. What I honestly don't understand is that if you feel so strongly about the subject, as you apparently do, why are you still playing the game? Why don't you just sod off and do something more constructive with your time?
Luthien Firefoot Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.18 23:10:00 - [98] Originally by: Der Pfaffe Originally by: BuyN Sell snip Your spiteful little friend also besmirched the good name of another player who's only "crime" was to accept a job as a GM at CCP. The fact is that you and your small brained herd of conspiracy theorists have yet to come up with any real evidence of BoB wrongdoing as far as the dev thing is concerned however shrilly you might shriek about it on the forums. What I honestly don't understand is that if you feel so strongly about the subject, as you apparently do, why are you still playing the game? Why don't you just sod off and do something more constructive with your time? as a merc your mouth is entirely too big for your ship. either fit more cpu for a smakplank upgrade or stfu yourself, alternatively you could always join DICE, I'm sure that you and lokan would enjoy each others company.
Raeff Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.18 23:29:00 - [99] Edited by: Raeff on 18/03/2007 23:42:21 Edited by: Raeff on 18/03/2007 23:40:21 Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 18/03/2007 21:05:50 Originally by: Raeff look at their past .. this statement is 100% truth .. not believing it will be your most fatal flaw taking their space will not win this war The operative word in your post is past. In the past, or at least the past you are talking of where BoB was a nomad entity, there was no need for the static real estate required for dreadnoughts and titans. Nowadays to secure a replenishable capital fleet you need to have a base even if its a temporary one. Just ask MC. (oh thats right you are in MC, you should know) Remove the ability to build capital ships and you remove the ability of an alliance to wage territorial warfare. That goes for any alliance.... BoB or otherwise. Yeah a BoB without territory would be a formidable guerilla force... but we all know the days when guerilla tactics could change the EVE landscape are firmly in the. Without a base of some kind, BoB's ability to wage eve-wide territorial warfare dies. End of story. BoB can die like any other alliance, its just a case of how badly the forces rallied against them want it to happen. Its just a case of willpower. [edit:typo] are you sure thats how the industry side of said alliances are run?
Der Pfaffe KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.19 00:01:00 - [100] Edited by: Der Pfaffe on 19/03/2007 00:01:00 Originally by: Luthien Firefoot Originally by: Der Pfaffe Originally by: BuyN Sell snip Your spiteful little friend also besmirched the good name of another player who's only "crime" was to accept a job as a GM at CCP. The fact is that you and your small brained herd of conspiracy theorists have yet to come up with any real evidence of BoB wrongdoing as far as the dev thing is concerned however shrilly you might shriek about it on the forums. What I honestly don't understand is that if you feel so strongly about the subject, as you apparently do, why are you still playing the game? Why don't you just sod off and do something more constructive with your time? as a merc your mouth is entirely too big for your ship. either fit more cpu for a smakplank upgrade or stfu yourself, alternatively you could always join DICE, I'm sure that you and lokan would enjoy each others company. LoL what's up... I have to STFU because it doesn't follow your view of the world? What has me being a Merc got to do with me saying that the BoB, now it appears CCP, haters have yet to produce any evidence of BoB/Dev wrongdoing? Am I wrong? Did I miss something? For your information I roleplay being a merc in game I enjoy a great deal, made by a company that, I believe, bends over backwards to keep its players happy. What I see here is a constant baseless attack on its integrity and that of the GMs. TBH I'm sick to death of it. Your suggestion that I should go and join DICE is also an indication of the state of some of you in the coilition. Any poster that disagrees with your view of EVE is automatically branded as a BoB fanboi or as a BoB alt or whatever. The sad part is that you don't realise just how pathetic that sounds.
BuyN Sell	Posted - 2007.03.19 00:59:00 - [101] Originally by: Der Pfaffe Originally by: BuyN Sell snip Your spiteful little friend also besmirched the good name of another player who's only "crime" was to accept a job as a GM at CCP. The fact is that you and your small brained herd of conspiracy theorists have yet to come up with any real evidence of BoB wrongdoing as far as the dev thing is concerned however shrilly you might shriek about it on the forums. What I honestly don't understand is that if you feel so strongly about the subject, as you apparently do, why are you still playing the game? Why don't you just sod off and do something more constructive with your time? I am still playing because there will be more outings of employees and firings and bannings in the future and I like 90% of the game outside of the fact that an employee was cheating. It is absolutely hilarious that I am being called small brained and a conspiracy theorist when the facts are clear that cheating has occured. Your ad hominem attacks and blind dismissal of actual facts are indicative of your mediocre rhetorical skills. Please continue to call foul while you stick your head in the sand.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.19 01:15:00 - [102] I think its high time this thread saw the dancing padlock of doom................... --------
This Pilot posts for honor	Posted - 2007.03.19 01:21:00 - [103] Originally by: Der Pfaffe For your information I roleplay being a merc in game I enjoy a great deal, made by a company that, I believe, bends over backwards to keep its players happy. What I see here is a constant baseless attack on its integrity and that of the GMs. TBH I'm sick to death of it. Baseless attack? Sure, we have no reason to think that an alliance in game cheated or had help from a CCP employee. Keep up the ad hominem brother.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.19 01:58:00 - [104] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 19/03/2007 01:58:59 Can they be defeated? Of course Will they be defeated?...that is the real question
Lyman Gilmore Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.03.19 13:07:00 - [105] snip Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. - Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Proxay Gallente Fallen Angel's Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.19 13:17:00 - [106] Cut it out, all of you. t20 cheated, not Molle, not Diana, not DBPreacher not Bob Member #82828...t20. CCP dealt with their employee, in a way they found suitable, and as such, being judge, jury and executioner, exacted their punishment. Now I'm pretty sure that no-one or a small number number of people posting in COAD have any sort of position of importance within CCP, and its management. So when all you people come out acting as if someone broke into your house and took a dump on your face in the middle of the night, it's very pathetic. The fact is, no-one did, it's a game, and the act of cheating here has been dealt with, so saying your FAITH in a gaming company was destroyed is utter BS. I SERIOUSLY doubt that any major difference was made by these BPOs (except sabre, and even then only minor) as they're all cheap enough that running a lv2 mission in empire can give you a good few thousand rounds of XYZ t2 ammo, and having the bpo is nice, but not something that will cripple an alliance playing 6 regions over. Stop acting as if t20 disbanded your alliance, selected some magical tool that made bob not lag in fleets, or gave them a 10s recharge time for their titans capacitor, it just didn't happen. Bob is by far and away the MOST respectable alliance I've seen, call me a slave, but I've been working WITH them for much longer than a fair few of you 'bandwagoners', and like any other alliance, a select few people who are rude, and a vast majority of polite people. They can be defeated, but not through fighting, through moral, and moral alone can an alliance be killed. And let's face it, the coalition of the South/North isn't quite up to scratch with moral breaking tacticts. ^ my opinion. God I hope this is under 24kb It is :) Kreul Intentions
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.19 13:32:00 - [107] Edited by: welsh wizard on 19/03/2007 13:29:44 Good post Proxay. This whole cheating business is getting old and stale. It's a crap reason to base this war on tbh. Blow up BoB because they're a bunch of loud mouth gits who think they're better than everyone else at Eve. Time to prove otherwise in-game, not in here, aye? n1
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.19 13:45:00 - [108] Originally by: welsh wizard This whole cheating business is getting old and stale. It's a crap reason to base this war on tbh. Blow up BoB because they're a bunch of loud mouth gits who think they're better than everyone else at Eve. Time to prove otherwise in-game, not in here, aye? It is the two together that was a recipe for war. I'm sure there would be no coalition if it wasn't for dbp forum posts.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.19 19:33:00 - [109] Originally by: Proxay Cut it out, all of you. t20 cheated, not Molle, not Diana, not DBPreacher not Bob Member #82828...t20. No, I won't cut it out. I will continue to exert my freedom of speech. If that distresses you, I sugest you stop reading. T20 disclose his identity to those people. They were ware of whom they were dealing with. They accepted his privilleged info and his gifts. Sirmolle, Diana and DBPreacher are intelligente people. To assume they were only poor innocent bystanders is to be naive, sorry. Originally by: Proxay CCP dealt with their employee, in a way they found suitable, and as such, being judge, jury and executioner, exacted their punishment. Now I'm pretty sure that no-one or a small number number of people posting in COAD have any sort of position of importance within CCP, and its management. So when all you people come out acting as if someone broke into your house and took a dump on your face in the middle of the night, it's very pathetic. I pay a monthly fee for this game. I am a customer, and I have every right to feel "as if someone broke into my house and took a dump on my face in the middle of the night" when the service I am paying for is tampered by the people I am paying to. I have every right to feel cheated, robbed and to express it. Originally by: Proxay The fact is, no-one did, it's a game, and the act of cheating here has been dealt with, so saying your FAITH in a gaming company was destroyed is utter BS. I SERIOUSLY doubt that any major difference was made by these BPOs (except sabre, and even then only minor) as they're all cheap enough that running a lv2 mission in empire can give you a good few thousand rounds of XYZ t2 ammo, and having the bpo is nice, but not something that will cripple an alliance playing 6 regions over. At the time the bpos were given even T2 ammunition could produce large ammount of ISK. ISK that was used to grow into the 6 regions alliance (which is a 3 regions one now, btw). Given the positive feedback success generate in this game, and the natural attraction people have for it, it is impossible to tell how much those bpos helped. And worse. It is impossible to tell what kind of benefits BoB gained from their association with T20. Information is power, and having information before everybody else means the capacity to greatly profit on it. Only one example. If someone had told me one week before the info was public released that Inertia stabs would diminush mass in addition to giving agility, in the first part of revelations. I could have made billions, just by mass buying local hulls and beta hulls for a very cheap price and selling them for ten times the value I paid after revelations. Originally by: Proxay Stop acting as if t20 disbanded your alliance, selected some magical tool that made bob not lag in fleets, or gave them a 10s recharge time for their titans capacitor, it just didn't happen. Bob is by far and away the MOST respectable alliance I've seen, call me a slave, but I've been working WITH them for much longer than a fair few of you 'bandwagoners', and like any other alliance, a select few people who are rude, and a vast majority of polite people. They can be defeated, but not through fighting, through moral, and moral alone can an alliance be killed. And let's face it, the coalition of the South/North isn't quite up to scratch with moral breaking tacticts. ^ my opinion. As I said before you cannot tell how much he did. But for what he himself confessed we can say he did worse than the things you use as examples here. Information is by far more important and valuable than magical protection to lag, or medled stats for their ships. These last things can be detected and undone. What he did was far more subtler and had much more impact in the game as role than childish engine manipulations. You, sir, are being naive, to the worst degree...
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.03.19 19:43:00 - [110] This topic will never go away.. and it shouldn't, then perhaps it will never happen again. There are lots of aspects of the t20 scandal that make your blood boil if you stop to think about them for any length of time.
Baymm Shadow Gypsies R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.19 19:43:00 - [111] Edited by: Baymm on 19/03/2007 19:39:45 Etho: I think you are confused about your freedom of speech rights and this forum. Governments guarantee freedom of speech rights, not game developers. If you are confused about that, then perhaps the rest of your post is equally in error. Baymm Shadow Gypsies Rise
Etho Demerzel Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.19 19:59:00 - [112] Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 19/03/2007 19:57:25 Originally by: Baymm Edited by: Baymm on 19/03/2007 19:39:45 Etho: I think you are confused about your freedom of speech rights and this forum. Governments guarantee freedom of speech rights, not game developers. If you are confused about that, then perhaps the rest of your post is equally in error. No I am not. I am well within the forum rules. And as long as I am, I have freedom of speech. I it is limited, but free within its scope. If you cannot understand this please make a basic course of logic. On the bright side, they will teach you what is a fallacy and why your argument is completely ridiculous too. I may always be wrong about anything I say, as you can too. But even if I was wrong about my statement of freedom of speech that does not make me more or less likely to be wrong about anything else. That requires a bit of thinking to realize, but it is not that difficult. Just try hard and you will make it :)
Cleonius BoBo Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.03.19 20:25:00 - [113] Originally by: Nez Perces This topic will never go away.. and it shouldn't, then perhaps it will never happen again. There are lots of aspects of the t20 scandal that make your blood boil if you stop to think about them for any length of time. If you think for any length of time about it, you might come to the conclusion that getting one's blood boiling over an overinflated event in an internet game won't do much more than carry you along the road of bitterness. Don't you believe you're spoiling your own enjoyement in the game by denying yourself the relief of forgiveness ? I mean, it's perfectly understandable to be **ed off and all, after the unfortunate events. Yet at the end, the one you're hurting the most by keeping being **ed off is probably yourself. Either you think CCP is honest and will apply teh spanking unto the guilty as much as they are able to, and you can free your mind of this sad affair, or you think they're not, and then why put yourself under the power of unfair people ? Oh well... back to lurking.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.03.19 20:42:00 - [114] Originally by: Cleonius Don't you believe you're spoiling your own enjoyement in the game by denying yourself the relief of forgiveness ? Well... this is a pvp game, in my experience there is no greater satisfaction than fighting against an enemy you dislike (within an in-game context). I mean at the end of the day, playing EVE, is sitting hunched up over a keyboard staring into a monitor for hours on end shooting at pixels. Feeling strongly about those pixels is half the fun. Forgiveness is fine in RL, in EVE.. nah.. in EVE the fun is extracting your pound of flesh.
Baymm Shadow Gypsies R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.19 21:30:00 - [115] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 19/03/2007 19:57:25 Originally by: Baymm Edited by: Baymm on 19/03/2007 19:39:45 Etho: I think you are confused about your freedom of speech rights and this forum. Governments guarantee freedom of speech rights, not game developers. If you are confused about that, then perhaps the rest of your post is equally in error. No I am not. I am well within the forum rules. And as long as I am, I have freedom of speech. I it is limited, but free within its scope. If you cannot understand this please make a basic course of logic. On the bright side, they will teach you what is a fallacy and why your argument is completely ridiculous too. I may always be wrong about anything I say, as you can too. But even if I was wrong about my statement of freedom of speech that does not make me more or less likely to be wrong about anything else. That requires a bit of thinking to realize, but it is not that difficult. Just try hard and you will make it :) So now forum rules are the same thing as freedom of speech? To analogize forum rules to freedom of speech is to border on the absurd. Let's put it to the test: (1) What recourse do you have if a mod were to redact your posts? (2) What recourse do you have if CCP were to change the posting rules specifically denying you the right to post about this issue any longer? You would do far better to come up with better analogies. Baymm Shadow Gypsies Rise
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.19 21:55:00 - [116] Originally by: Etho Demerzel T20 disclose his identity to those people. They were ware of whom they were dealing with. They accepted his privilleged info and his gifts. Sirmolle, Diana and DBPreacher are intelligente people. To assume they were only poor innocent bystanders is to be naive, sorry. I see it different. Just because you know that someone is a dev doesn't mean that his BPOs are most likely not ligit. They are normal players, some of them 2003/2004 vets so to speak and allowed to play the game how they like. They are also allowed to obtain a dozen of tech-2 BPOs or more via agent or auction and even allowed to try to become the richest player in EVE, if they want to. Besides that in a corp with a communistic model it's not very uncommon that people lend their BPOs to the corp for production. It's just a matter of how trustworthy the people with access to those BPOs are. Saying that the directors in BoB all knew about it is speculation. And if no new facts are released, it will stay that way, at least for me. ___________ Muuuhhh !!!
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.20 04:31:00 - [117] Originally by: Plutoinum Originally by: Etho Demerzel T20 disclose his identity to those people. They were ware of whom they were dealing with. They accepted his privilleged info and his gifts. Sirmolle, Diana and DBPreacher are intelligente people. To assume they were only poor innocent bystanders is to be naive, sorry. I see it different. Just because you know that someone is a dev doesn't mean that his BPOs are most likely not ligit. They are normal players, some of them 2003/2004 vets so to speak and allowed to play the game how they like. They are also allowed to obtain a dozen of tech-2 BPOs or more via agent or auction and even allowed to try to become the richest player in EVE, if they want to. Besides that in a corp with a communistic model it's not very uncommon that people lend their BPOs to the corp for production. It's just a matter of how trustworthy the people with access to those BPOs are. Saying that the directors in BoB all knew about it is speculation. And if no new facts are released, it will stay that way, at least for me. signed Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.20 06:41:00 - [118] Originally by: Crellion Originally by: Plutoinum I see it different. Just because you know that someone is a dev doesn't mean that his BPOs are most likely not ligit. They are normal players, some of them 2003/2004 vets so to speak and allowed to play the game how they like. They are also allowed to obtain a dozen of tech-2 BPOs or more via agent or auction and even allowed to try to become the richest player in EVE, if they want to. Besides that in a corp with a communistic model it's not very uncommon that people lend their BPOs to the corp for production. It's just a matter of how trustworthy the people with access to those BPOs are. Saying that the directors in BoB all knew about it is speculation. And if no new facts are released, it will stay that way, at least for me. signed You cult of war guys must really have to work to get the bob ass hair out of your teeth each morning.
NeverL Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.20 07:02:00 - [119] i use a tooth pick. ----------------- My dream is to become the best forum warrior there is. Even better then Molle Sir.
Proxay Gallente Fallen Angel's Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 07:09:00 - [120] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Originally by: Crellion Originally by: Plutoinum I see it different. Just because you know that someone is a dev doesn't mean that his BPOs are most likely not ligit. They are normal players, some of them 2003/2004 vets so to speak and allowed to play the game how they like. They are also allowed to obtain a dozen of tech-2 BPOs or more via agent or auction and even allowed to try to become the richest player in EVE, if they want to. Besides that in a corp with a communistic model it's not very uncommon that people lend their BPOs to the corp for production. It's just a matter of how trustworthy the people with access to those BPOs are. Saying that the directors in BoB all knew about it is speculation. And if no new facts are released, it will stay that way, at least for me. signed You cult of war guys must really have to work to get the bob ass hair out of your teeth each morning. Why are you still posting in this thread, you're not contributing anything but flamebait and hatered, this is the point where you leave this topic to rot and show bob how much you dislike them in-game. Bob can be defeated, but not without a grueling war, this isn't something that will happen over-night, listen to welsh wizard etc, he's had plenty of experience fighting against bob. But of course your too good for that....right? God I hope this is under 24kb It is :) Kreul Intentions
TIvian Caldari The Hushz	Posted - 2007.03.20 11:27:00 - [121] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Originally by: Blitz'Krieg With this in mind, truly how badly can BoB be beaten? If they have all of their space and stations taken, all of their shipyards destroyed, will this have a significant effect on boB as a pvp force and a unit? Yes. No doubt they could continue fighting forever, but if you take their capital shipyards they will lose a lot of isk, and a lot of hard work. Their morale will drop, and their pride will be stolen. Will it be the end of the alliance? Probably not. But it will be a victory for their enemies, probably enough of one to quench the bloodlust. Shamis YES!!! OLD SCHOOL BABY!!! NO ONE IS UNBEATABLE!!! and no one knows this more than the man I quoted!! DEATH TO BoB!! (sorry to the friends and old alliance mates that fly BoB colors...your loyalty is miss-given.) They say "America is the GREAT SATAN!!" I say, If they think we're the devil, THEN LETS SEND THEM TO HELL!
Ellohem Tears of Redemption	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:04:00 - [122] I honestly dont think the colalition can even with this one lol. granted i was with the colalition but honestly BoB have better logistics then any other alliance in this game and thats a fact.The colalition things just because they have more people they will win. I for one know more isnt always better numbers dont matter tactics and logistics are the key to winning a fight if you can know where and when and what the enemy will be in and at and you come up with a plan like BoB will your done for lol. like others have said BoB is long from being defeated. can they be....yes.... but will they only time will tell Inappropriate signature removed. Please observe proper forum rules when displaying a signature - Valorem Fancy meeting you here!
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:19:00 - [123] You can write page up and down with lots of arguments about this, you can drag in good arguments and stupid arguments. But facts will still stand. In a game like this where humans are the factor, everyone can be beated. Just that some takes longer then other... On top one day, last the other...
killerco Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:31:00 - [124] Can bob be defeated? yes Will bob be defeated? Only time will tell. This topic ran its course when the topic switched too the T20 topic. So time for mr. locky Don't be a great man just be a man
EglantinFinfleur Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:50:00 - [125] Edited by: EglantinFinfleur on 20/03/2007 12:46:59 The accusation of BobDevs ran prior to the T20 affair, since quite a long time. This has been proven right. Also, where there is smoke, there are flames, as the saying goes. What about the other accusations, concerning ISD, events, information leaks and downright in-game resources access made easier? CCP are awesome devs and their game is beautiful. But they're also gamers. Videogamers, when they play, have a very low set of morals values I'd say. Just play any online game to verify that. Egoism, lying, cheating are commonplace, or even looked at as good things by members of a same guild or player-driven ingame organization, if it can further their goals. Yet, CCP have to play their game to test it from within, otherwise it wouldn't make sense. Big problem: how can CCP playtest their game (in real action, not sisi), without the 'gamer' in some of them being tempted to use some privileges?
Weka Dart Caldari Band of Sisters	Posted - 2007.03.20 13:21:00 - [126] Can BOB be defeated ? No. Why ? Because there is no-one else in this game who has even the remotest level of natural skill that BOB does. Most of the ppl lined up against BOB log on for a half hour gank and if it doesn't materialise, either log off or go mining / ratting. BOB will still be BOB when this game eventually dies in ten or so years, unless you bore them to death..
This Pilot posts for honor	Posted - 2007.03.20 13:28:00 - [127] Originally by: EglantinFinfleur Big problem: how can CCP playtest their game (in real action, not sisi), without the 'gamer' in some of them being tempted to use some privileges? By actually firing the people caught cheating?
Swirler Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 13:39:00 - [128] It's very good that you respect the truth about your enemy; BoB. Unlike ASCN, Unlike Lotka Volterra, BoB will not give up, fall apart, or quit the fight. They will fight with everything they have for as long as they can. It is for this reason alone, that they are seen as superior and deservedly so. Goons fight because they have RA Capital support, without it they never would have gotten anywhere. RA fights for isk plexes, throws kibbles to goons to be meat shields, and keeps their capital fleet on call while they plex. Both Alliances fight with half a heart. Fly through Scalding Pass and Detorid lately? No one home, it's like a ghost town except for the Konora gate. BoB Forces fight to win, with everything they have. It is the reason they have remained at the top. Originally by: Sorja If BoB loses it's core systems, they'll be defeated, simple as that. There's no such thing as 'retreat to Empire' for them. They'll fight to the death for Delve and if they fail their name will be history. Remember this reply begins with 'if'. They are far from defeated. The coalition first goals are nearly achieved, taking directly on BoB will come in time and those will be interesting times indeed.
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.20 13:57:00 - [129] Originally by: Swirler Goons fight because they have RA Capital support, without it they never would have gotten anywhere. RA fights for isk plexes, throws kibbles to goons to be meat shields, and keeps their capital fleet on call while they plex. Both Alliances fight with half a heart. Fly through Scalding Pass and Detorid lately? No one home, it's like a ghost town except for the Konora gate. ] Just a question, being Aftermath a new alliance living in the Fountain region, and RA/Goons living right on the opposite side, I'm just wondering if you ever fought against Goons or RA. I'm not talking about skirmishes, I'm talking about campaigns. Have you ever fought a campaign against any of this 2 alliances ? Thank you
neusa Xoth Inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 14:35:00 - [130] yeah bob can be defeated :) 2 ways : 1) make them all sleep :D 2) break all bob's connections :) to eve and they can get pewned otherwise :D i dont think u can defeat bob :).All north coal cant break :) bob :)
Tequilapepper Amarr Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:25:00 - [131] You will forgive my corpmate smack, my apologies on behalf of XOTH. Respectfully Tequilapepper FIX Grunt
Etho Demerzel Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.21 07:53:00 - [132] Originally by: Plutoinum Originally by: Etho Demerzel T20 disclose his identity to those people. They were ware of whom they were dealing with. They accepted his privilleged info and his gifts. Sirmolle, Diana and DBPreacher are intelligente people. To assume they were only poor innocent bystanders is to be naive, sorry. I see it different. Just because you know that someone is a dev doesn't mean that his BPOs are most likely not ligit. They are normal players, some of them 2003/2004 vets so to speak and allowed to play the game how they like. They are also allowed to obtain a dozen of tech-2 BPOs or more via agent or auction and even allowed to try to become the richest player in EVE, if they want to. Besides that in a corp with a communistic model it's not very uncommon that people lend their BPOs to the corp for production. It's just a matter of how trustworthy the people with access to those BPOs are. Saying that the directors in BoB all knew about it is speculation. And if no new facts are released, it will stay that way, at least for me. The disclosure of the Dev identity was on its own an infraction. And infraction they did accept. The disclosure of privileged informations by the same Dev was game changing, an infraction, and was heartly accepted by the people mentioned. I wrote a single example of billion making information that is utterly untraceable: the inertia Stabs changes on revelation. How many others do you think they got? Now about the bpos, if you received 10 tech 2 bpos at the very beginning of the lottery from a person you know is a dev and shouldn't have told you this, wouldn't you wonder where did he get it? Wouldn't you ask him? Do you think T20 lied to them about the origin of those things? And if so, do you think they were naive enough to believe it? Well, they pose as intelligent people. They even consider themselves as the superior strategists of this game. Although I don't buy the later, I don't contend the former. They are not low intellect innocent bystanders. Please give me a break... In the end everything is speculation. Absolute truth can never be determined in this world. The best you can find more and more evidences that agree with your theories and therefore imply that they are likely to be truth. As you can never be sure, though, practicality demands that at some point you decide that the evidences and what you can deduce from them are enough to consider the theory correct, at least until new evidence comes to prove the opposite. That is how law works and that is how every belief of your mind and of mine as well are forged. No matter how you try to excuse them, Plutoinum, there is simply no way to rationally find them innocent in my humble opinion. If it is more comfortable for you to believe otherwise, it is your right though.
OSughhi Romanian Army of ManiaCS	Posted - 2007.03.21 08:41:00 - [133] Edited by: OSughhi on 21/03/2007 08:39:17 Oh, please. Maybe my english is poor but your logic is only a long chain of false presumtions. First, why to be a dev is an infraction? Also, why to be a dev that is playing is an infraction. Or maybe to suspect someone to be a dev in game from your corp is infraction? Or to suspect and dont yell on eveo forum is infraction? Or to have in your corp a suspected dev that own BPO is infraction? Maybe to receive from a player that is suspected as dev a BPO? Or more than 1. Maybe 10? Or to receive BPO from a dev player 10 BPO? Infraction? Or to suspect that BPO are illegal in game and receive from a suspected dev player? Infraction? Are you aware how laws are working? Or to receive from a known dev player BPO that he didnt admit illegal spawn, but your high IQ suspect that are illegal? Where is the infraction? Maybe your point is circle around too much on suspected and nontrusted on your corp members and gang friends. From what I have understand in BoB is a very tight frienship and playing. I assume they will rarely start to suspect and accuse left and right on old buddys because they are suspicious rich and vgood in mechanism of game. That line of suspecting everyone is the secure way to destroy trust and friendship in any corp in eve, and I highly doubt BoB members are folowing for very good reasons.

Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.03.21 11:59:00 - [134] This thread is being locked, its run it course and people have utterly derailed it. There is one place and one place only to post about the dev incident and it is in the thread in the information portal not here. The mod team has kindly asked for people not to derail these thread and ruin this section for others. Please be respectful and do this. - Thanks Hutch. ____ forum rules \| Email us \| Wikipedia Entry They call me "Hutch" because my name is well... long


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