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Can BoB truly be defeated?

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Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:28:00 - [1] Its a question i have wondered about since i read Seleene's post about why they have never taken a contract against BoB. Flames aside (please) the reason they gave is that there has never been a concrete and workable plan to destroy them. As most people know, Eve pvp used to be 80% skills 20% finance, but has increasingly become 70% finance and 30% skills as capital ship pilots become more commen and the fittings and fighting style become more homogonised. With this in mind, truly how badly can BoB be beaten? If they have all of their space and stations taken, all of their shipyards destroyed, will this have a significant effect on boB as a pvp force and a unit? Carriers and dreads are both easily and cheaply purchased from low sec empire and with an alliance that has an extensive T2 BPO collection BoB are capable of producing enough ISK to be able to fund large scale war for as long as they desire. The only real ship that (so far) hasn't been produced by private industry is the titan and as fleets become more and more soley made from capital ships the titans role as a weapon becomes less poignant and would be used as more of a logistical ship. Reading an alt flamethread a couple of weeks ago one of the claims that was made was the attack of low sec industry corps of D2's and destroying their low sec pos industrial base. Regardless of the truth or untruth of this it seems like a damn good idea. Has any of the coalition made a determined effort to attack BoB's industry in empire, and various industrial alt corps? This train of thought led me to look at ASCN which theoretically should have been the same. I havent the knowledge from inside but the impression i got was that they put an awful lot of ISK into producing outposts. Perhaps this ISK would have been better spent on nonedefendable assets rather than ones that are possible to lose. So the base question i suppose would be, with BoB not reliant upon its stations and space in order to fund war, how feasable is it in the lon term to defeat them?
Chip2k3 Energy.	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:32:00 - [2] 1st in a bob thread \o/ sig pending.
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:37:00 - [3] Speaking from my experiance... Alliances are very hard to kill. Even if they lose there space there is plenty of other space in the game to goto. The issue is that when an alliance had a major defeat, you do lose a lot of people. You dont normally stay with the same members and same corps due to the defeat, and people start laying blame on others, and then the internal struggles start. IMO its very hard to get a defeated alliance back on its feet. AXE - Where the men work hard and the girls want to play.
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:37:00 - [4] problem is ppl beat their chest but only really snigg, smash and a few others dare to actually go and annoy bob in their home space , anyone else that does usually ends up NAP'ed to bob after some time
Rui Nosferatu FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:47:00 - [5] Edited by: Rui Nosferatu on 13/03/2007 22:44:14 Quote: 70% finance and 30% skill Are you serious? Put a carebear in a capital ship and its a monumental embarrassment. Do you PVP?
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:54:00 - [6] Originally by: Rui Nosferatu Edited by: Rui Nosferatu on 13/03/2007 22:44:14 Quote: 70% finance and 30% skill Are you serious? Put a carebear in a capital ship and its a monumental embarrassment. Do you PVP? The point i was trying to make is that a lot of fleet battles are done at range with primaries called and fairly set fittings. Now its more a case of being able to replace your losses and get out there than ever before. do you disagree?
Cmd Woodlouse Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:56:00 - [7] im sick of this useless +=("!$(!?$ threads leave it be alrdy and time will tell the outcome --------------------------------
Friday Dillinja Temi Inc	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:56:00 - [8] It is impossible to "defeat" an alliance in eve. At least in theory, since they can keep on fighting without pos based from empire. As i said, in theory. You can, however, "defeat" their will to fight. This is usually accomplished by wtfpwning them again and again, until members lose confidence in their leadership and start dropping out of the alliance to see if the grass on the other side of the fence isnt greener after all. I can't really see that happening to BoB anytime soon, at least not to the core elements of the alliance. However, if the war goes on for months and if the coalition manages to keep up constant pressure on BoB, then i'd say there is a good chance we'll see pet alliances / allies dropping out one after the other. However, all of this relies on the stability of the (whole) coalition and their uncompromised will to focus on BoB until there is no more serious opposition. I don't know if i would bet on that... ------------------------------------ i found out how to edit my signature!
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:01:00 - [9] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg With this in mind, truly how badly can BoB be beaten? If they have all of their space and stations taken, all of their shipyards destroyed, will this have a significant effect on boB as a pvp force and a unit? Yes. No doubt they could continue fighting forever, but if you take their capital shipyards they will lose a lot of isk, and a lot of hard work. Their morale will drop, and their pride will be stolen. Will it be the end of the alliance? Probably not. But it will be a victory for their enemies, probably enough of one to quench the bloodlust. Shamis
Anaximander Monk Mandala Group	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg alliance that has an extensive T2 BPO collection Not for long.
Prophet Malcalypse3 Amarr Her Golden Apple Corps	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:34:00 - [11] no
Virida Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:39:00 - [12] As the OP tells: remove BOB's ability to make ISK, and you remove their winning chance. Since this mmo grows in players, bob will fall, unless they plan to house 100k players in their territories. Sooner or later, those 100k would say "peekaboo!" at bob.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:39:00 - [13] You can take their space. They'll just move into someone else's space though. Hell, id consider them more dangerous without space then with space, while they have space that they're looking to keep they would become more predictable and easier to hit. ----- $Forum + $Bob + $Devs == $ForumPostCount+++++;
Temerlyn Minmatar STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:43:00 - [14] The truth is... It doesn't realy matter. BoB have spin control figued out already. It would be the spin i would use. If bob loose- ...it took blah amount of alliances to take us down... ...we wanted to have a big fight and leave eve with a bang... and other such litanies. If they win (what classes as a win is subjective) ...it took blah amount of alliances to take us down, and we still beat you... ...we wanted to have a big fight and leave eve with a bang, and we still beat you...
niroshido Caldari Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.13 23:46:00 - [15] all alliances are vulnerable, there is no invincible alliance, but against BOB you need to have strategy and coordinated efforts remember BOB's main lines of success lay in there ability to alpha strike there targets at key positions in there enemies lines, this includes getting behind enemy lines, the problem with this strategy is closer to home while BOB are fronting there assault in your theatre, you need to successfully mount an assault to either flank there retreat or just plainly attack several systems while they are distracted it is why fighting on more than 1 flank screwed LV over RAGOON could front a massive assault from the north and the west through Immensea, ultimatly they could outflank any retreating forces who tried defending the northern territories of LV space (which was 1st to fall of course) the idea is to strike an area which is either too far away for BOB to get to in time, or to use a diversion while u strike them at there heart if you want to screw them over your best off looking south and old ascn space, the flank is open there as D2 is taking the attention from this area
Hitman396 Caldari Asguard Security Service Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Blitz'Krieg Can BoB truly be defeated? No. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Jorja Fox Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:03:00 - [17] All you would do if successful like JF said , is turn them into a massive roaming fleet that would be capable of quickly killing off an alliance and taking there region .. It's a far better scenario to leave them in there own space , then to have that firepower on the roam .... imo anyway
TRYPTIC	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:03:00 - [18] BoB plays chess quite well - when attacked frontally, counter on the flanks or rear. When attacked on the flank or rear, attack frontally. This is a generalization, but it's applicable to most strategy/RTS games.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:10:00 - [19] Originally by: TRYPTIC BoB plays chess quite well - when attacked frontally, counter on the flanks or rear. When attacked on the flank or rear, attack frontally. This is a generalization, but it's applicable to most strategy/RTS games. So is Zerg rushing. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Wraithstorm Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:13:00 - [20] In my humble opinion, if BOB are the type of Alliance that is defined by its pilots, and leadership and NOT by a piece of land or regions then I dont think they will ever be beaten. They are by far IMO one of the best pvp entities in existance, and if they can hold themselves together after they lose their space, IF they lose their space, then I think the world will see a raiding entity from hell... I dont see BOB losing their main chunk of land though. Esoteria, Feyth and stuff, yea, but the Coalition thats supposed to be hitting them from the East is already dwindling, so soon its gonna be D2 and company vs BOB and Company, and thats going to end in a stalement. Just my 2 cents
Elienia Serenity of EvE R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:40:00 - [21] That looks soo funny... i will leave eve, they will leave eve, you will leave eve, he will leave eve... lol... Of course Bob cant be defeated... they are pilots who fight together, and the most experimented and skilled pilots so far... and not a region... Those players wont stop to play and leave eve anyway... with the regions or without them, you cant kill Bob... Do you really think you will kill Bob and they will go to empire or apply in Goon ROFL??... Anyway, have a look 5 weeks of war, coalition looks already stupid, fall in pieces and all they do is to give some phew phew fun to Bob... and an insane kill ration... Open your eyes
Trinity Faetal Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.14 00:46:00 - [22] stfu go kill them and find out -- Enjoy The Silence
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.14 01:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain You can take their space. They'll just move into someone else's space though. Hell, id consider them more dangerous without space then with space, while they have space that they're looking to keep they would become more predictable and easier to hit. Just like you said LV would be - right?
NIkis Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.03.14 01:11:00 - [24] of course they can be beaten how? it's obvious :)
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.14 01:38:00 - [25] Does a bear crap in the woods? There's your answer...
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2007.03.14 02:03:00 - [26] Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 14/03/2007 02:03:18 Its been said before that theres 3 alliances that can never be made to break up. Goons, because they are a brotherhood, and without the swarm they feel the game loses much of its meaning. Red Alliance, because they are an alliance built in adversity, and BOB, because they genuinely believe they are superior. However, analyse that a little closer. No matter how much you kill the goons or put them in empire, they'll just make crazy clown wars or use it as an oportunity for mad fun. Red alliance just gets stronger when they get hurt. Angrier and more cunning even. RA know about hurt, and RA know about rising above it stronger than before. But if you take away BOB's "superiority", then what have they got? Theres room in empire for either RA/GOON or BOB, but not both. Problem is, one of those would survive it, the other wouldnt. Think about it. edit: The Alliance dwindling? Where do you people get this nonsense from? ONE small corp leaves due to a possibly resolvable spat, and its all over. Hate to say it chicken little, but the Alliance is still entirely capable of fielding some verry large forces. During the LV war, AAA kept out of play. For the BOB war, AAA have come to the party. Im not sure how one could paint that as "dwindling". Remember, for a coalition thats currently on a R&R break between wars, they are STILL taking stations and STILL running amok. Ever been to querious lately? Damn things a mess of IRON , AAA, Goons and friends, and the war against BOB hasn even formally started yet.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.14 03:18:00 - [27] I would not be fighting against BoB if I did not think they could be defeated.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.14 03:26:00 - [28] 'On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero'
Wraithstorm Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.03.14 03:44:00 - [29] Quote: edit: The Alliance dwindling? Where do you people get this nonsense from? ONE small corp leaves due to a possibly resolvable spat, and its all over. Hate to say it chicken little, but the Alliance is still entirely capable of fielding some verry large forces. During the LV war, AAA kept out of play. For the BOB war, AAA have come to the party. Im not sure how one could paint that as "dwindling". Remember, for a coalition thats currently on a R&R break between wars, they are STILL taking stations and STILL running amok. Ever been to querious lately? Damn things a mess of IRON , AAA, Goons and friends, and the war against BOB hasn even formally started yet. Im pretty sure this was directed at me so Ill give you my response. Now, from looking at these forums and reading up on things I can see that Chorus of Dawn, and Youwhat have both left The Northern Front, and SMASHKILL and RA are about to go at it. That my friend in my eyes is dwindling. Hell if one Corporation leaves your Coalition then that in fact in itself is dwindling. Nowhere in my post did I question your Coalitions Fleet capabilities so read before you troll young one. So if Im Chicken Little your Goosey Loosey My son watches the damn movie too much.
Sokhar Amarr The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.14 04:24:00 - [30] there is only one man who can solve this debate, LEEEROOOOY JEEEENKIIINS

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