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High Sec. Ore Theives..... Aggro. Confusion.

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Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:23:00 - [1] Ok Ive been playin the game for a while and I THOUGHT I understood how the aggro worked pretty well.... Yesterday that was proved wrong. GM says they are "Not permitted" to tell me how he got kill rights on me. Maybe one of you can? Im out mining in my covetor in 0.8 space. I have my 5 mining drones helping out as well. Yes... jetcan mining... I have my cargo bay window open and the jetcan window open. I have just started, so not much in the can. I see someone warp in with his condor and check out my can. I grab what I can from the already open can and fill my cargo bay to capacity. He makes his own can and warps away. I jetison the ore in my cargo to a new can, leaving his can untouched. I swap out my miner2s with hobgoblins and continue mining. Big deal he got 200k worth of ore. He warps back in with a buddy, warp scrambles me and opens fire on me with missiles. I had not even targeted him.... Did not send my drones after him... and never touched his can. But yet... no concord. Needless to say I lost my covetor. All the GM will tell me is to be sure the can I take ore from is my own. As far as I know... there is NO WAY for an ore theif to replace my can with theirs AND have it open on my screen. I also have the stealing item warning turned on, so if I was stealing it should have warned me. So..... How did he get kill rights???
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:23:00 - [2] Ok Ive been playin the game for a while and I THOUGHT I understood how the aggro worked pretty well.... Yesterday that was proved wrong. GM says they are "Not permitted" to tell me how he got kill rights on me. Maybe one of you can? Im out mining in my covetor in 0.8 space. I have my 5 mining drones helping out as well. Yes... jetcan mining... I have my cargo bay window open and the jetcan window open. I have just started, so not much in the can. I see someone warp in with his condor and check out my can. I grab what I can from the already open can and fill my cargo bay to capacity. He makes his own can and warps away. I jetison the ore in my cargo to a new can, leaving his can untouched. I swap out my miner2s with hobgoblins and continue mining. Big deal he got 200k worth of ore. He warps back in with a buddy, warp scrambles me and opens fire on me with missiles. I had not even targeted him.... Did not send my drones after him... and never touched his can. But yet... no concord. Needless to say I lost my covetor. All the GM will tell me is to be sure the can I take ore from is my own. As far as I know... there is NO WAY for an ore theif to replace my can with theirs AND have it open on my screen. I also have the stealing item warning turned on, so if I was stealing it should have warned me. So..... How did he get kill rights???
Dufas Amarr freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:29:00 - [3] no idea sounds like they found a way around the system...filing petitions is useless all they will say is sorry we cant help u after you wait 2 weeks __________ cool FINK sig under construction
warpod Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:29:00 - [4] Is he BoB?
Dufas Amarr freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:29:00 - [5] no idea sounds like they found a way around the system...filing petitions is useless all they will say is sorry we cant help u after you wait 2 weeks __________ cool FINK sig under construction
warpod Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:29:00 - [6] Is he BoB?
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:30:00 - [7] Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:29:14 My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not touch the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:30:00 - [8] Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:29:14 My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not touch the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. Exactly... its a well known trick. My can was open from the time I started mining tho. Never closed. So unless they found a way to change ownership of the can.... The can I had open was mine.
Virene Mene Caldari Damage Unlimited Inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. merely opening someone else's can will not get you a timer.... ------------------------ The above post are my own independent opinion, and does not reflect on the opinion of my corp or alliance.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. Exactly... its a well known trick. My can was open from the time I started mining tho. Never closed. So unless they found a way to change ownership of the can.... The can I had open was mine.
Virene Mene Caldari Damage Unlimited Inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. merely opening someone else's can will not get you a timer.... ------------------------ The above post are my own independent opinion, and does not reflect on the opinion of my corp or alliance.
Equipment Warehouse	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:35:00 - [13] Is it possible ... ... you put out hobgoblins. He'd already stolen from your can, so was flagged to you. He warps back in, your hobgoblins auto-aggro him. He then can attack you. Ok, stretching the realms of probability perhaps. Best option you got is to petition it for reimbursment, and perhaps petition it as a possible exploit as well if you are absolutely certain you did not aggro him. The exploit one will get looked at pretty quickly I suspect. My 2 pence ... E.W.
Equipment Warehouse	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:35:00 - [14] Is it possible ... ... you put out hobgoblins. He'd already stolen from your can, so was flagged to you. He warps back in, your hobgoblins auto-aggro him. He then can attack you. Ok, stretching the realms of probability perhaps. Best option you got is to petition it for reimbursment, and perhaps petition it as a possible exploit as well if you are absolutely certain you did not aggro him. The exploit one will get looked at pretty quickly I suspect. My 2 pence ... E.W.
JackknifedII Minmatar Darksaber Technologies Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:37:00 - [15] Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows
JackknifedII Minmatar Darksaber Technologies Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:37:00 - [16] Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Equipment Warehouse Is it possible ... ... you put out hobgoblins. He'd already stolen from your can, so was flagged to you. He warps back in, your hobgoblins auto-aggro him. He then can attack you. Ok, stretching the realms of probability perhaps. Best option you got is to petition it for reimbursment, and perhaps petition it as a possible exploit as well if you are absolutely certain you did not aggro him. The exploit one will get looked at pretty quickly I suspect. My 2 pence ... E.W. Can drones auto attack after an event? When its rats attacking, if my drones arent out before the attack, they dont auto-engage. I have to target and tell them to engage. I did file under exploit. It was looked at quickly. Replied with ...looked at logs.... not an exploit.... cant tell u how it was done.... check can ownership.... turn on warnings... My can was already open before they warped in, and warnings are on. So Im really confused. I would never risk a 40mil ship for less than 1mil in ore.
Blue Eclipse	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [18] Edited by: Blue Eclipse on 20/03/2007 16:39:20
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [19] Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:38:07 Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. Exactly... its a well known trick. My can was open from the time I started mining tho. Never closed. So unless they found a way to change ownership of the can.... The can I had open was mine. If you didnt touch the guys can and your drones didnt engage him etc. then you get the convetor back. Also this would mean the other guy was exploiting somehow and there is a bug that can be exploited. Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Edit: Concerning the drones: NO, drones are not supposed to auto attack. If they did auto attack then this is a bug as well, and you get reimbursed.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Equipment Warehouse Is it possible ... ... you put out hobgoblins. He'd already stolen from your can, so was flagged to you. He warps back in, your hobgoblins auto-aggro him. He then can attack you. Ok, stretching the realms of probability perhaps. Best option you got is to petition it for reimbursment, and perhaps petition it as a possible exploit as well if you are absolutely certain you did not aggro him. The exploit one will get looked at pretty quickly I suspect. My 2 pence ... E.W. Can drones auto attack after an event? When its rats attacking, if my drones arent out before the attack, they dont auto-engage. I have to target and tell them to engage. I did file under exploit. It was looked at quickly. Replied with ...looked at logs.... not an exploit.... cant tell u how it was done.... check can ownership.... turn on warnings... My can was already open before they warped in, and warnings are on. So Im really confused. I would never risk a 40mil ship for less than 1mil in ore.
Blue Eclipse	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [21] Edited by: Blue Eclipse on 20/03/2007 16:39:20
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [22] Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:38:07 Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. Exactly... its a well known trick. My can was open from the time I started mining tho. Never closed. So unless they found a way to change ownership of the can.... The can I had open was mine. If you didnt touch the guys can and your drones didnt engage him etc. then you get the convetor back. Also this would mean the other guy was exploiting somehow and there is a bug that can be exploited. Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Edit: Concerning the drones: NO, drones are not supposed to auto attack. If they did auto attack then this is a bug as well, and you get reimbursed.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:40:00 - [23] Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:40:00 - [24] Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:44:00 - [25] Originally by: Soulita Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:44:00 - [26] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me. Yes, you can put stuff into someone elses can. This is how the trick of the macrohunters works. The macro accidentally puts stuff in the wrong can cause it has the same name as its own can. Also if you are in an npc corp and the attacker is as well then you will see the green corp logo on both the wrong and the right can. As I said in my first reply, I think thats what you might have done. Using this trick is not an exploit btw.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:44:00 - [27] Originally by: Soulita Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me. Yes, you can put stuff into someone elses can. This is how the trick of the macrohunters works. The macro accidentally puts stuff in the wrong can cause it has the same name as its own can. Also if you are in an npc corp and the attacker is as well then you will see the green corp logo on both the wrong and the right can. As I said in my first reply, I think thats what you might have done. Using this trick is not an exploit btw.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:47:00 - [29] Originally by: Soulita Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me. Yes, you can put stuff into someone elses can. This is how the trick of the macrohunters works. The macro accidentally puts stuff in the wrong can cause it has the same name as its own can. Also if you are in an npc corp and the attacker is as well then you will see the green corp logo on both the wrong and the right can. As I said in my first reply, I think thats what you might have done. Using this trick is not an exploit btw. U misunderstood my question. I KNOW the can that was open was mine. I never closed the can from the time it was originally launched. My question was... can the ebil person put something into MY can so when I take it out of MY can its stealing?
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:47:00 - [30] Originally by: Soulita Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me. Yes, you can put stuff into someone elses can. This is how the trick of the macrohunters works. The macro accidentally puts stuff in the wrong can cause it has the same name as its own can. Also if you are in an npc corp and the attacker is as well then you will see the green corp logo on both the wrong and the right can. As I said in my first reply, I think thats what you might have done. Using this trick is not an exploit btw. U misunderstood my question. I KNOW the can that was open was mine. I never closed the can from the time it was originally launched. My question was... can the ebil person put something into MY can so when I take it out of MY can its stealing?

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