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High Sec. Ore Theives..... Aggro. Confusion.

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Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:23:00 - [1] Ok Ive been playin the game for a while and I THOUGHT I understood how the aggro worked pretty well.... Yesterday that was proved wrong. GM says they are "Not permitted" to tell me how he got kill rights on me. Maybe one of you can? Im out mining in my covetor in 0.8 space. I have my 5 mining drones helping out as well. Yes... jetcan mining... I have my cargo bay window open and the jetcan window open. I have just started, so not much in the can. I see someone warp in with his condor and check out my can. I grab what I can from the already open can and fill my cargo bay to capacity. He makes his own can and warps away. I jetison the ore in my cargo to a new can, leaving his can untouched. I swap out my miner2s with hobgoblins and continue mining. Big deal he got 200k worth of ore. He warps back in with a buddy, warp scrambles me and opens fire on me with missiles. I had not even targeted him.... Did not send my drones after him... and never touched his can. But yet... no concord. Needless to say I lost my covetor. All the GM will tell me is to be sure the can I take ore from is my own. As far as I know... there is NO WAY for an ore theif to replace my can with theirs AND have it open on my screen. I also have the stealing item warning turned on, so if I was stealing it should have warned me. So..... How did he get kill rights???
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:23:00 - [2] Ok Ive been playin the game for a while and I THOUGHT I understood how the aggro worked pretty well.... Yesterday that was proved wrong. GM says they are "Not permitted" to tell me how he got kill rights on me. Maybe one of you can? Im out mining in my covetor in 0.8 space. I have my 5 mining drones helping out as well. Yes... jetcan mining... I have my cargo bay window open and the jetcan window open. I have just started, so not much in the can. I see someone warp in with his condor and check out my can. I grab what I can from the already open can and fill my cargo bay to capacity. He makes his own can and warps away. I jetison the ore in my cargo to a new can, leaving his can untouched. I swap out my miner2s with hobgoblins and continue mining. Big deal he got 200k worth of ore. He warps back in with a buddy, warp scrambles me and opens fire on me with missiles. I had not even targeted him.... Did not send my drones after him... and never touched his can. But yet... no concord. Needless to say I lost my covetor. All the GM will tell me is to be sure the can I take ore from is my own. As far as I know... there is NO WAY for an ore theif to replace my can with theirs AND have it open on my screen. I also have the stealing item warning turned on, so if I was stealing it should have warned me. So..... How did he get kill rights???
Dufas Amarr freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:29:00 - [3] no idea sounds like they found a way around the system...filing petitions is useless all they will say is sorry we cant help u after you wait 2 weeks __________ cool FINK sig under construction
warpod Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:29:00 - [4] Is he BoB?
Dufas Amarr freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:29:00 - [5] no idea sounds like they found a way around the system...filing petitions is useless all they will say is sorry we cant help u after you wait 2 weeks __________ cool FINK sig under construction
warpod Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:29:00 - [6] Is he BoB?
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:30:00 - [7] Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:29:14 My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not touch the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:30:00 - [8] Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:29:14 My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not touch the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. Exactly... its a well known trick. My can was open from the time I started mining tho. Never closed. So unless they found a way to change ownership of the can.... The can I had open was mine.
Virene Mene Caldari Damage Unlimited Inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. merely opening someone else's can will not get you a timer.... ------------------------ The above post are my own independent opinion, and does not reflect on the opinion of my corp or alliance.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. Exactly... its a well known trick. My can was open from the time I started mining tho. Never closed. So unless they found a way to change ownership of the can.... The can I had open was mine.
Virene Mene Caldari Damage Unlimited Inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. merely opening someone else's can will not get you a timer.... ------------------------ The above post are my own independent opinion, and does not reflect on the opinion of my corp or alliance.
Equipment Warehouse	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:35:00 - [13] Is it possible ... ... you put out hobgoblins. He'd already stolen from your can, so was flagged to you. He warps back in, your hobgoblins auto-aggro him. He then can attack you. Ok, stretching the realms of probability perhaps. Best option you got is to petition it for reimbursment, and perhaps petition it as a possible exploit as well if you are absolutely certain you did not aggro him. The exploit one will get looked at pretty quickly I suspect. My 2 pence ... E.W.
Equipment Warehouse	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:35:00 - [14] Is it possible ... ... you put out hobgoblins. He'd already stolen from your can, so was flagged to you. He warps back in, your hobgoblins auto-aggro him. He then can attack you. Ok, stretching the realms of probability perhaps. Best option you got is to petition it for reimbursment, and perhaps petition it as a possible exploit as well if you are absolutely certain you did not aggro him. The exploit one will get looked at pretty quickly I suspect. My 2 pence ... E.W.
JackknifedII Minmatar Darksaber Technologies Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:37:00 - [15] Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows
JackknifedII Minmatar Darksaber Technologies Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:37:00 - [16] Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Equipment Warehouse Is it possible ... ... you put out hobgoblins. He'd already stolen from your can, so was flagged to you. He warps back in, your hobgoblins auto-aggro him. He then can attack you. Ok, stretching the realms of probability perhaps. Best option you got is to petition it for reimbursment, and perhaps petition it as a possible exploit as well if you are absolutely certain you did not aggro him. The exploit one will get looked at pretty quickly I suspect. My 2 pence ... E.W. Can drones auto attack after an event? When its rats attacking, if my drones arent out before the attack, they dont auto-engage. I have to target and tell them to engage. I did file under exploit. It was looked at quickly. Replied with ...looked at logs.... not an exploit.... cant tell u how it was done.... check can ownership.... turn on warnings... My can was already open before they warped in, and warnings are on. So Im really confused. I would never risk a 40mil ship for less than 1mil in ore.
Blue Eclipse	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [18] Edited by: Blue Eclipse on 20/03/2007 16:39:20
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [19] Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:38:07 Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. Exactly... its a well known trick. My can was open from the time I started mining tho. Never closed. So unless they found a way to change ownership of the can.... The can I had open was mine. If you didnt touch the guys can and your drones didnt engage him etc. then you get the convetor back. Also this would mean the other guy was exploiting somehow and there is a bug that can be exploited. Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Edit: Concerning the drones: NO, drones are not supposed to auto attack. If they did auto attack then this is a bug as well, and you get reimbursed.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Equipment Warehouse Is it possible ... ... you put out hobgoblins. He'd already stolen from your can, so was flagged to you. He warps back in, your hobgoblins auto-aggro him. He then can attack you. Ok, stretching the realms of probability perhaps. Best option you got is to petition it for reimbursment, and perhaps petition it as a possible exploit as well if you are absolutely certain you did not aggro him. The exploit one will get looked at pretty quickly I suspect. My 2 pence ... E.W. Can drones auto attack after an event? When its rats attacking, if my drones arent out before the attack, they dont auto-engage. I have to target and tell them to engage. I did file under exploit. It was looked at quickly. Replied with ...looked at logs.... not an exploit.... cant tell u how it was done.... check can ownership.... turn on warnings... My can was already open before they warped in, and warnings are on. So Im really confused. I would never risk a 40mil ship for less than 1mil in ore.
Blue Eclipse	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [21] Edited by: Blue Eclipse on 20/03/2007 16:39:20
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:39:00 - [22] Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:38:07 Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not take anything from the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. Exactly... its a well known trick. My can was open from the time I started mining tho. Never closed. So unless they found a way to change ownership of the can.... The can I had open was mine. If you didnt touch the guys can and your drones didnt engage him etc. then you get the convetor back. Also this would mean the other guy was exploiting somehow and there is a bug that can be exploited. Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Edit: Concerning the drones: NO, drones are not supposed to auto attack. If they did auto attack then this is a bug as well, and you get reimbursed.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:40:00 - [23] Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:40:00 - [24] Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:44:00 - [25] Originally by: Soulita Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:44:00 - [26] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me. Yes, you can put stuff into someone elses can. This is how the trick of the macrohunters works. The macro accidentally puts stuff in the wrong can cause it has the same name as its own can. Also if you are in an npc corp and the attacker is as well then you will see the green corp logo on both the wrong and the right can. As I said in my first reply, I think thats what you might have done. Using this trick is not an exploit btw.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:44:00 - [27] Originally by: Soulita Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me. Yes, you can put stuff into someone elses can. This is how the trick of the macrohunters works. The macro accidentally puts stuff in the wrong can cause it has the same name as its own can. Also if you are in an npc corp and the attacker is as well then you will see the green corp logo on both the wrong and the right can. As I said in my first reply, I think thats what you might have done. Using this trick is not an exploit btw.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:47:00 - [29] Originally by: Soulita Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me. Yes, you can put stuff into someone elses can. This is how the trick of the macrohunters works. The macro accidentally puts stuff in the wrong can cause it has the same name as its own can. Also if you are in an npc corp and the attacker is as well then you will see the green corp logo on both the wrong and the right can. As I said in my first reply, I think thats what you might have done. Using this trick is not an exploit btw. U misunderstood my question. I KNOW the can that was open was mine. I never closed the can from the time it was originally launched. My question was... can the ebil person put something into MY can so when I take it out of MY can its stealing?
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:47:00 - [30] Originally by: Soulita Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me. Yes, you can put stuff into someone elses can. This is how the trick of the macrohunters works. The macro accidentally puts stuff in the wrong can cause it has the same name as its own can. Also if you are in an npc corp and the attacker is as well then you will see the green corp logo on both the wrong and the right can. As I said in my first reply, I think thats what you might have done. Using this trick is not an exploit btw. U misunderstood my question. I KNOW the can that was open was mine. I never closed the can from the time it was originally launched. My question was... can the ebil person put something into MY can so when I take it out of MY can its stealing?
Jollyreaper Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:48:00 - [31] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it. So does he not know or does he know and refuses to tell you? Hmm. That sounds really bogus.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:48:00 - [32] As a high sec miner grieving ore thief yarr etc whatever, I have been longing for a simple system to cause aggression without the messy business of the miner having to do something to cause the aggression. Sadly I have been unable to find a way to do it. Are you sure he didn't get CONCORDed? If he fired illegally, and you had Drones out, your drones should have automatically aggressed him back, which means you technically defended yourself, which means you do not receive the Month Killrights usually associated with a suicide hit. If you do find out how he did it, I'd love to hear how it is done. Eve: Cheats prosper.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:48:00 - [33] Edited by: Jastor Morbix on 20/03/2007 16:51:31 Originally by: Jollyreaper Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it. So does he not know or does he know and refuses to tell you? Hmm. That sounds really bogus. Hmm.... no comment.
Jollyreaper Gallente Ace Adventure Corp	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:48:00 - [34] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it. So does he not know or does he know and refuses to tell you? Hmm. That sounds really bogus.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:48:00 - [35] As a high sec miner grieving ore thief yarr etc whatever, I have been longing for a simple system to cause aggression without the messy business of the miner having to do something to cause the aggression. Sadly I have been unable to find a way to do it. Are you sure he didn't get CONCORDed? If he fired illegally, and you had Drones out, your drones should have automatically aggressed him back, which means you technically defended yourself, which means you do not receive the Month Killrights usually associated with a suicide hit. If you do find out how he did it, I'd love to hear how it is done. Eve: Cheats prosper.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:48:00 - [36] Edited by: Jastor Morbix on 20/03/2007 16:51:31 Originally by: Jollyreaper Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it. So does he not know or does he know and refuses to tell you? Hmm. That sounds really bogus. Hmm.... no comment.
Moltav Dreddstar	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:49:00 - [37] I had the same thing happen to me but I shot the ore thief down once I returned w/ my Black Bird. A few folks in local tried to reproduce the situation. We had no luck. I think if he puts out a can w/ your can's name and has popped your can, the window that you have open is HIS CAN. It is just a guess I have not tried this yet. (TQ is down to patch ATM.) I would love to understand this as well. I guess I can go troll the Pirate sites to see if i can find it tho....
Moltav Dreddstar	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:49:00 - [38] I had the same thing happen to me but I shot the ore thief down once I returned w/ my Black Bird. A few folks in local tried to reproduce the situation. We had no luck. I think if he puts out a can w/ your can's name and has popped your can, the window that you have open is HIS CAN. It is just a guess I have not tried this yet. (TQ is down to patch ATM.) I would love to understand this as well. I guess I can go troll the Pirate sites to see if i can find it tho....
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:50:00 - [39] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me. Yes, you can put stuff into someone elses can. This is how the trick of the macrohunters works. The macro accidentally puts stuff in the wrong can cause it has the same name as its own can. Also if you are in an npc corp and the attacker is as well then you will see the green corp logo on both the wrong and the right can. As I said in my first reply, I think thats what you might have done. Using this trick is not an exploit btw. U misunderstood my question. I KNOW the can that was open was mine. I never closed the can from the time it was originally launched. My question was... can the ebil person put something into MY can so when I take it out of MY can its stealing? Sorry, yea he can put stuff into your can. But then it is yours - 99% sure on that. You cant 'steal' from your own can. If this was the only thing that happened, you would not have lost the convetor.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:50:00 - [40] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? Ive never tested that to see if it works but it might...who knows Can you put stuff in someone elses can? If so, how would taking from my own can be stealing? THAT seems like an exploit to me. Yes, you can put stuff into someone elses can. This is how the trick of the macrohunters works. The macro accidentally puts stuff in the wrong can cause it has the same name as its own can. Also if you are in an npc corp and the attacker is as well then you will see the green corp logo on both the wrong and the right can. As I said in my first reply, I think thats what you might have done. Using this trick is not an exploit btw. U misunderstood my question. I KNOW the can that was open was mine. I never closed the can from the time it was originally launched. My question was... can the ebil person put something into MY can so when I take it out of MY can its stealing? Sorry, yea he can put stuff into your can. But then it is yours - 99% sure on that. You cant 'steal' from your own can. If this was the only thing that happened, you would not have lost the convetor.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:51:00 - [41] Edited by: Jastor Morbix on 20/03/2007 16:54:59 Originally by: Gaven Blands As a high sec miner grieving ore thief yarr etc whatever, I have been longing for a simple system to cause aggression without the messy business of the miner having to do something to cause the aggression. Sadly I have been unable to find a way to do it. Are you sure he didn't get CONCORDed? If he fired illegally, and you had Drones out, your drones should have automatically aggressed him back, which means you technically defended yourself, which means you do not receive the Month Killrights usually associated with a suicide hit. If you do find out how he did it, I'd love to hear how it is done. Well... all I can say is, my ships death didnt happen quickly. It took several "vollys" of missiles. I never saw that pop up msg from concord saying he had done something illegal or whatever.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:51:00 - [42] Edited by: Jastor Morbix on 20/03/2007 16:54:59 Originally by: Gaven Blands As a high sec miner grieving ore thief yarr etc whatever, I have been longing for a simple system to cause aggression without the messy business of the miner having to do something to cause the aggression. Sadly I have been unable to find a way to do it. Are you sure he didn't get CONCORDed? If he fired illegally, and you had Drones out, your drones should have automatically aggressed him back, which means you technically defended yourself, which means you do not receive the Month Killrights usually associated with a suicide hit. If you do find out how he did it, I'd love to hear how it is done. Well... all I can say is, my ships death didnt happen quickly. It took several "vollys" of missiles. I never saw that pop up msg from concord saying he had done something illegal or whatever.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:54:00 - [43] Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:55:40 Jastor, just for your info, so this thread does not get locked - You are not allowed to discuss GM actions on the forums. Anyways, ask again or ask the petition be escalated. If this was some sort of undocumented feature I am fairly sure you will get an answer.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:54:00 - [44] Originally by: Moltav Dreddstar I had the same thing happen to me but I shot the ore thief down once I returned w/ my Black Bird. A few folks in local tried to reproduce the situation. We had no luck. I think if he puts out a can w/ your can's name and has popped your can, the window that you have open is HIS CAN. It is just a guess I have not tried this yet. (TQ is down to patch ATM.) I would love to understand this as well. I guess I can go troll the Pirate sites to see if i can find it tho.... Interesting..... seems like an exploit.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:54:00 - [45] Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:55:40 Jastor, just for your info, so this thread does not get locked - You are not allowed to discuss GM actions on the forums. Anyways, ask again or ask the petition be escalated. If this was some sort of undocumented feature I am fairly sure you will get an answer.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:54:00 - [46] Originally by: Moltav Dreddstar I had the same thing happen to me but I shot the ore thief down once I returned w/ my Black Bird. A few folks in local tried to reproduce the situation. We had no luck. I think if he puts out a can w/ your can's name and has popped your can, the window that you have open is HIS CAN. It is just a guess I have not tried this yet. (TQ is down to patch ATM.) I would love to understand this as well. I guess I can go troll the Pirate sites to see if i can find it tho.... Interesting..... seems like an exploit.
Maam	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:56:00 - [47] Sounds very odd to me. I'm 99.99% sure about that ... the ore itself has no owner. The ownership is ALWAYS inherited from the owner of the container. It all seems to boil down to "can you switcheroonie someone's can while they have it open?" I'd ask for the petition to be looked at by a more senior GM, in case the original GM thought it was just a case of standard ore theft ... ie rubber stamp it, cookie cutter reply ... NEXT! (No offence to the original GM. If people didn't petition every time a Guerista farted near them, they could actually spend some time looking into petitions that do need sorting!)
Maam	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:56:00 - [48] Sounds very odd to me. I'm 99.99% sure about that ... the ore itself has no owner. The ownership is ALWAYS inherited from the owner of the container. It all seems to boil down to "can you switcheroonie someone's can while they have it open?" I'd ask for the petition to be looked at by a more senior GM, in case the original GM thought it was just a case of standard ore theft ... ie rubber stamp it, cookie cutter reply ... NEXT! (No offence to the original GM. If people didn't petition every time a Guerista farted near them, they could actually spend some time looking into petitions that do need sorting!)
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:57:00 - [49] Originally by: SoulitaJastor, just for your info, so this thread does not get locked - You are not allowed to discuss GM actions on the forums. Anyways, ask again or ask the petition be escalated. If this was some sort of undocumented feature I am fairly sure you will get an answer.[/quote Point taken, Please edit my reply out of ur post too?
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:57:00 - [50] Originally by: SoulitaJastor, just for your info, so this thread does not get locked - You are not allowed to discuss GM actions on the forums. Anyways, ask again or ask the petition be escalated. If this was some sort of undocumented feature I am fairly sure you will get an answer.[/quote Point taken, Please edit my reply out of ur post too?
Vayron NovaeDyne Industries Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:59:00 - [51] Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? You can remove items from a can you do not own, but you can not place items inside a can you do not own. Most likely his drones auto attacked when the guy warped back and locked target. It's also very likely the attacker assumed a macro miner was flying the ship he was trying to attack. Next time you see someone steal ore, talk about it in local chat. When you see someone approaching, try to start a conversation with them. If they are hunting macro miners and you give them reassurance you aren't one they will move on. "Another day, another million ISK"
Vayron NovaeDyne Industries Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:59:00 - [52] Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? You can remove items from a can you do not own, but you can not place items inside a can you do not own. Most likely his drones auto attacked when the guy warped back and locked target. It's also very likely the attacker assumed a macro miner was flying the ship he was trying to attack. Next time you see someone steal ore, talk about it in local chat. When you see someone approaching, try to start a conversation with them. If they are hunting macro miners and you give them reassurance you aren't one they will move on. "Another day, another million ISK"
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:01:00 - [53] Originally by: Vayron Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? You can remove items from a can you do not own, but you can not place items inside a can you do not own. Most likely his drones auto attacked when the guy warped back and locked target. It's also very likely the attacker assumed a macro miner was flying the ship he was trying to attack. Next time you see someone steal ore, talk about it in local chat. When you see someone approaching, try to start a conversation with them. If they are hunting macro miners and you give them reassurance you aren't one they will move on. Yep, tried local and private. No reply in local and refused my private. <gotta go to work now check the thread later thanks everyone>
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:01:00 - [54] Originally by: Vayron Originally by: JackknifedII Did he put something into your can and when you moved it to your cargo hold would that have flagged you? You can remove items from a can you do not own, but you can not place items inside a can you do not own. Most likely his drones auto attacked when the guy warped back and locked target. It's also very likely the attacker assumed a macro miner was flying the ship he was trying to attack. Next time you see someone steal ore, talk about it in local chat. When you see someone approaching, try to start a conversation with them. If they are hunting macro miners and you give them reassurance you aren't one they will move on. Yep, tried local and private. No reply in local and refused my private. <gotta go to work now check the thread later thanks everyone>
Sapeian Caldari The LoneStar Corp	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:02:00 - [55] Sound's to me like were not getting the full story, seems far more likely becuase the guy was in a small ship Jastor agroed back with drones, and thus got popped. thats what i think, i could be well wrong though.
Sapeian Caldari The LoneStar Corp	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:02:00 - [56] Sound's to me like were not getting the full story, seems far more likely becuase the guy was in a small ship Jastor agroed back with drones, and thus got popped. thats what i think, i could be well wrong though.
Sobrenus	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:06:00 - [57] Ok, just try: 1. Take same ore the victim is mining 2. Jettison this ore near his can 3. Put some ore from your can to his can. 4. Fly away and come back a little bit later on
Sobrenus	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:06:00 - [58] Ok, just try: 1. Take same ore the victim is mining 2. Jettison this ore near his can 3. Put some ore from your can to his can. 4. Fly away and come back a little bit later on
Phyrr Minmatar Firing Squad Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:07:00 - [59] you cannot place items into another individuals can. I macrohunted for a very long time. It is not how he got you flagged. My guess is he played sleight of hand with the cargo container windows. If you even touch an item in his can without transfering you get flagged.
Phyrr Minmatar Firing Squad Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:07:00 - [60] you cannot place items into another individuals can. I macrohunted for a very long time. It is not how he got you flagged. My guess is he played sleight of hand with the cargo container windows. If you even touch an item in his can without transfering you get flagged.
Korizan	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:12:00 - [61] Sounds like there is a bug and the GM's were told to keep it quiet till it could be fixed. (I AM GUESSING HERE) If so not telling you has had the reverse effect and now everyone who reads this board now knows it and there will be people trying to duplicate it. The lack of response from the GM is puzzling. As far as I know. You can steal from anyone. (this will get you flagged) You CAN'T put items into another persons can (wondering if this is the bit that is broke) Back to the stealing. If you steal are you flagged to everyone in that persons corp AND anyone in that group. I know this is the catch though If you attack them when they steal from you you can only attack the stealer. The other people in the corp (group to be answered) can't not be engaged till they attack you. Am I right High sec rules can be a real pain.
Korizan	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:12:00 - [62] Sounds like there is a bug and the GM's were told to keep it quiet till it could be fixed. (I AM GUESSING HERE) If so not telling you has had the reverse effect and now everyone who reads this board now knows it and there will be people trying to duplicate it. The lack of response from the GM is puzzling. As far as I know. You can steal from anyone. (this will get you flagged) You CAN'T put items into another persons can (wondering if this is the bit that is broke) Back to the stealing. If you steal are you flagged to everyone in that persons corp AND anyone in that group. I know this is the catch though If you attack them when they steal from you you can only attack the stealer. The other people in the corp (group to be answered) can't not be engaged till they attack you. Am I right High sec rules can be a real pain.
lusifar	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:52:00 - [63] Originally by: warpod Is he BoB? that was JUST my thought...
lusifar	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:52:00 - [64] Originally by: warpod Is he BoB? that was JUST my thought...
CrestoftheStars Deviance Inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:55:00 - [65] Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:29:14 My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not touch the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. one more exsploit that the devs don't care about:P ___________________________________________ if eve had This kind of control system combinet with it's SP and advanced weaponry system it have. http://sco.gpotato.com/
CrestoftheStars Deviance Inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:55:00 - [66] Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:29:14 My guess is you did in fact take from the other guys can. It is a well known method to place a can next to a miner which has the same name as the miners can. As soon as the miner accidentaly opens that can (which is not his) the owner of the can gets killrights. This tactic used to be used by macrohunters to make the macro killable. If you realy did not touch the other guys can, then you will get your covetor replaced. one more exsploit that the devs don't care about:P ___________________________________________ if eve had This kind of control system combinet with it's SP and advanced weaponry system it have. http://sco.gpotato.com/
Terminus adacai Caldari Mintaka Mining Inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:04:00 - [67] I have known this OP in game for many months. He is a straight shooter, no BS. When he told me what had happened, we quickly said file reimbursement and exploit petitions. The response he got was "we can't tell you, but it wasn't an exploit." Seems to me that something is amiss. If you can get a non aggressive miner flagged to give you kill rights, something is up. The response was very lacking... Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp.
Terminus adacai Caldari Mintaka Mining Inc	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:04:00 - [68] I have known this OP in game for many months. He is a straight shooter, no BS. When he told me what had happened, we quickly said file reimbursement and exploit petitions. The response he got was "we can't tell you, but it wasn't an exploit." Seems to me that something is amiss. If you can get a non aggressive miner flagged to give you kill rights, something is up. The response was very lacking... Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp.
Phyrr Minmatar Firing Squad Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:08:00 - [69] i guess no one read my post? No exploit as far as i'm aware.
Phyrr Minmatar Firing Squad Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:08:00 - [70] i guess no one read my post? No exploit as far as i'm aware.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:21:00 - [71] Originally by: Sapeian Sound's to me like were not getting the full story, seems far more likely becuase the guy was in a small ship Jastor agroed back with drones, and thus got popped. thats what i think, i could be well wrong though. When the ore was stolen, I had miner drones out. They cant fight. When the theif left, I did put out hobgoblins, but I never targeted him. So unless the drones launched after the theft can auto-attack, I dont see how I agressed them. <love posting from work :P >
Nye Jaran	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:23:00 - [72] Originally by: Phyrr i guess no one read my post? No exploit as far as i'm aware. I'm sure people have read your post. You, however, appear to have missed a key element in the OP's post. Before the ore was stolen, OP alleges that he had the Jet Can window open. OP also claims that at no time did said jet can window close. I'll guess that it can also be said that OP never opened another jet can window. So either the OP is lying or there is now a way to change jet can ownership without affecting the jet can owner's interface. Assuming that the OP is truthful and presented all of the facts (not just perceptions), then there is a bug / exploit. I know what I'll be doing when I get home from work tonight. Time to break out the test character again.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:25:00 - [73] Originally by: Phyrr you cannot place items into another individuals can. I macrohunted for a very long time. It is not how he got you flagged. My guess is he played sleight of hand with the cargo container windows. If you even touch an item in his can without transfering you get flagged. He would have had to open his can on my screen. I never closed my can from the time I launched it. His can showed up yellow. I never opened that one.
Nye Jaran	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:26:00 - [74] Originally by: Jastor Morbix When the ore was stolen, I had miner drones out. They cant fight. When the theif left, I did put out hobgoblins, but I never targeted him. So unless the drones launched after the theft can auto-attack, I dont see how I agressed them. <love posting from work :P > Ok, I'm Caldari, I don't play with drones a lot, so I'm curious... Is it possible that by having drones out during the theft, he'd be automatically attacked when he came back? I'm thinking that the mining drones had him flagged for the theft, and then when you swapped out to hobgoblins, that flag was inheritted. Like I said, I don't play around with drones much, so I don't know if that's possible or not, just asking.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:34:00 - [75] Originally by: Nye Jaran Before the ore was stolen, OP alleges that he had the Jet Can window open. OP also claims that at no time did said jet can window close. I'll guess that it can also be said that OP never opened another jet can window. So either the OP is lying or there is now a way to change jet can ownership without affecting the jet can owner's interface. Assuming that the OP is truthful and presented all of the facts (not just perceptions), then there is a bug / exploit. I know what I'll be doing when I get home from work tonight. Time to break out the test character again. Correct, the original can was open since I started mining. It was still open when I took some ore back out. It stayed open until the ore theif emptied it and it popped. There was another can created by him (yellow) which I left alone. I jetisoned the ore from my cargo into a NEW container. Then got popped. Please let me know what u find out. Im going to try some testing myself tonight.
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:40:00 - [76] Just did some interesting testing... Although I couldnt replicate the situation I was in yesterday. In this test <not what happened yesterday>, when someone stole ore from me, he turned red/flashing as expected. When I targeted him, WITHOUT SHOOTING, He got aggro towards me. Just targeting... no firing... That shouldnt happen should it?
Becq Starforged Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services	Posted - 2007.03.20 21:11:00 - [77] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Just did some interesting testing... Although I couldnt replicate the situation I was in yesterday. In this test <not what happened yesterday>, when someone stole ore from me, he turned red/flashing as expected. When I targeted him, WITHOUT SHOOTING, He got aggro towards me. Just targeting... no firing... That shouldnt happen should it? If a target has been flagged, and you lock said target (even if you don't fire) is this enough for your drones to decide to shoot the target? Drones seem to be getting less and less reliable ever since that brief, shining period where they fixed the logic ... before overwriting the fix with Revelations code. -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today!
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.03.20 21:26:00 - [78] Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 21:31:12 Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 21:25:20 Originally by: Jastor Morbix Just did some interesting testing... Although I couldnt replicate the situation I was in yesterday. In this test <not what happened yesterday>, when someone stole ore from me, he turned red/flashing as expected. When I targeted him, WITHOUT SHOOTING, He got aggro towards me. Just targeting... no firing... That shouldnt happen should it? No, that should not happen. Btw, tried out this can situation, if you open someone elses can and click on the items in there, it does not aggro you. It only aggros you if you move the stuff around in his container or take it. But if you have the warning window enabled it will pop up as soon as you try to move the stuff. So if you have the warning window on, I realy see no way how the guy could have gotten killrights on you without you recognizing - other than bugged drones of course. Seems very clear to me that if all you said is true then you should get your stuff reimbursed. Btw, a dev comment on this would be good.
Barrick Stormsworn Minmatar CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.03.20 21:41:00 - [79] Just to throw this out there, though I'm not sure how helpful it'll be, there was a change to the drones code a while back regarding how their commands worked with flagging. Logistics/repping drones used in high sec used to be considered aggressive, so when you tried to rep someone it'd warn you that you would be attacked by CONCORD if you sicked your drones on a person to repair them. IIRC, this was fixed at one point so the warning didn't come up, but silently reversed later on (code overwrite, as a previous poster suggested?). I haven't been in high sec in a while, though, so I'm not really sure what the status of this is. I seem to remember some mining and EW drone commands having similar issues, depending on the circumstances, which leads me to believe that this situation is actually attributed to a drone bug rather than a prat exploit. Potentially, the mining drones aggressed the thief, even though they couldn't do anything, and, considering himself quite lucky, he went to get combat fitted and find a mate to return and pop you. Wish he had replied so you could get the other side of the story and find out what he had actually done...
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.03.20 21:56:00 - [80] yurgh.. so much text already just wanted to throw in this: shoving around (aka picking something up then "canceling" that action by dropping it right away) stuff in a foreign can, but not taking it, still results in aggro
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.22 01:19:00 - [81] I got an email yesterday suggesting that if you and the ore theif are taking the same piece of ore from your jetcan at the same exact time, and it hits his can before u get it into your cargo hold, eve considers it stealing from the THEIFS can. Although you never opened the theif's can, you have stolen it from him. Anyone wanna test this one out and let me know? Although, even if its true, I wont be able to petition it...... Maybe one of you can.
glennkari Gallente DaHOOD Communication	Posted - 2007.03.22 01:42:00 - [82] Originally by: Nye Jaran Originally by: Jastor Morbix When the ore was stolen, I had miner drones out. They cant fight. When the theif left, I did put out hobgoblins, but I never targeted him. So unless the drones launched after the theft can auto-attack, I dont see how I agressed them. <love posting from work :P > Ok, I'm Caldari, I don't play with drones a lot, so I'm curious... Is it possible that by having drones out during the theft, he'd be automatically attacked when he came back? I'm thinking that the mining drones had him flagged for the theft, and then when you swapped out to hobgoblins, that flag was inheritted. Like I said, I don't play around with drones much, so I don't know if that's possible or not, just asking. Drones dont attack untill you tell them to, unless someone/something agresses you after there launched. Simply beaing targeted dosent make them attack, nor does a criminal flag.
Sasha Krah'n	Posted - 2007.03.22 03:53:00 - [83] lol yes jestor...you've just been can-flagged very common, and we are very good at duplicating it :)
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.03.22 04:06:00 - [84] Originally by: Sasha Krah'n lol yes jestor...you've just been can-flagged very common, and we are very good at duplicating it :) The common one is replacing my can with yours. Then I accidently steal from your can. Im talking about never touching your can at all.
FreelancerAlpha	Posted - 2007.03.22 05:36:00 - [85] Originally by: Jastor Morbix I got an email yesterday suggesting that if you and the ore theif are taking the same piece of ore from your jetcan at the same exact time, and it hits his can before u get it into your cargo hold, eve considers it stealing from the THEIFS can. Although you never opened the theif's can, you have stolen it from him. Anyone wanna test this one out and let me know? Although, even if its true, I wont be able to petition it...... Maybe one of you can. Yikes, I hope that isn't the case
Jastor Morbix	Posted - 2007.04.09 14:15:00 - [86] Edited by: Jastor Morbix on 09/04/2007 14:12:17 Finally got my petition response... ....logs show u stole or back... blah blah blah ...can not return your ship.... So be careful out there people. Theres a exploit, but no one will look into it. /me shake head Im done with petitions.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.09 16:20:00 - [87] First off, sorry for your loss... So far, every time an ore thief has hit my can, they have scooped everything out of it... if they made and named another can first, and scooped your ore to it, your can would have closed... or should have... but it sounds to me like they did not clear your can, thus it never closed on your screen... I also know from experience that the Thief's can is yellow and mine is white, another clue it's not the same can... as this is well known, I again assume you can tell the difference and so ignored the copy can... (ItÆs the color change that makes me think that you have to be half asleep to open the other can and know better then to play eve while sleeping) The only thing I can think of goes back to your drones, you said you launched themà Did you give them any instructions after that? Here is my point, you launch drones, they are in an unassigned state, the thief returns and locks you, you auto lock in return and the Drones may attack... if on the other hand, you had clicked the return and orbit, the drones are "Assigned" and perhaps will not attack... I have not tested this theory as I am stuck at work... the problem would then be with the initialization of the Combat Drone Object when spawned (launched). Noob in training...
Rab	Posted - 2007.04.09 16:54:00 - [88] There is a bug extant where drones can aggro people without any logical reason, seems drones can sometimes register someone as being agressive and attack back if they mess with cans. Sounds silly? Cost a guy a billion isk ship when the friend he was missioning with but not grouped with pulled drone aggro (he wasn't targeting drones or player, nor targeted, he had no smartbombs fitted) and the drones attacked him for doing something with a can. Then Concord showed up and killed the owner of the drones for an apparent agressive action that his drones did. Im guessing this guy did something to your can and your drones attacked him, as he was already flagged to you concord didn't join in, but it gave him the right to kill you. Non petitionable I would guess, CCP logs dont include how aggro was created for some strange reason, I would think damage and how it is dealt would be the main content of such a log. - In an infinite universe, everything is definite. -
Miter	Posted - 2007.04.14 14:03:00 - [89] Edited by: Miter on 14/04/2007 14:02:38 Quote: I got an email yesterday suggesting that if you and the ore theif are taking the same piece of ore from your jetcan at the same exact time, and it hits his can before u get it into your cargo hold, eve considers it stealing from the THEIFS can. Although you never opened the theif's can, you have stolen it from him. Somehow this seems the most plausible. With exact timing, and no combining of ore piles (to mess up item ids), I would believe that this is possible. The location of an item that you are actively dragging could change and be inside his can, if he dropped it there a fraction of a second before you dropped it into cargo.... and that would look like re-stealing ore in the logs. If it happened this way, there is a bug if you didn't get a warning window and you have the warnings turned on. I'll see if I can test this and post some results here. The reason I think this is plausible is that I have passed BMs around between chars, and have seen 'ghost' images in the can of BMs that were no longer there, they were in the other char's hold. I received the message "XYZ is not yours to take." or something similar. I'm thinking if that BM was in a nearby 'enemy' can that I'd be flagged as thief instead (and in the case of ghost icons, I further think this flagging could happen well after the transfer was made to his can.) (But I also think you'd get the theft warning if you weren't transferring at exactly the same time.)
dor amwar Occam's Razor Combine	Posted - 2007.04.14 15:18:00 - [90] just quickly scanning through the posts and the petition response a simple answer could be it was never removed from your container. the thief just 'moved' the stuff in your can but did not 'remove' it. that would itself have him flagged, the ore belongs to him but it is in your can. you then take his ore from your can and he gets agro rights. dunno, just a guess ...
Sile Suirghiche Gaidhlig Technology	Posted - 2007.04.14 16:13:00 - [91] Edited by: Sile Suirghiche on 14/04/2007 16:10:14 Originally by: Rab There is a bug extant where drones can aggro people without any logical reason, seems drones can sometimes register someone as being aggressive and attack back if they mess with cans. While messing about with fittings the other day I took a few shots at a corpmate for test purposes. Later, like fifteen minutes later, in another belt just hanging out while he mined, some rats appeared. When I tossed my drones at them the drones killed the first rat then immediately attacked my corpmate's barge. We were not even targeting each other at that point, and certainly didn't shoot each other after the drones were launched. Remember: All drones are rogue drones.
bigJkiller	Posted - 2007.04.14 17:24:00 - [92] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Sapeian Sound's to me like were not getting the full story, seems far more likely becuase the guy was in a small ship Jastor agroed back with drones, and thus got popped. thats what i think, i could be well wrong though. When the ore was stolen, I had miner drones out. They cant fight. When the theif left, I did put out hobgoblins, but I never targeted him. So unless the drones launched after the theft can auto-attack, I dont see how I agressed them. <love posting from work :P > i know how it happend i have done 1 or 2 myself. the question is did his drones kill a npc spawn before he come back if he did then his drones had him flaged also and went to him after npc spawn . kinda like auto fighting drones which is what the are designed to do. after 1 npc go for the others without commands? the drones flaged him and to them he is also like a npc they know no diff.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.04.14 17:49:00 - [93] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it. I that is the wording it smak of something not jet classed as an exploit but that CCP is not liking and is probably broken. They will not explain how it is done as they don't want it to spread untill they find how it can be mended. I would try to petition to an higher level GM. Seem you were bitten by a bug.
Ogdru Jahad Amarr Scarlet Scourge Society	Posted - 2007.04.14 18:33:00 - [94] any messing around with a can will have you set to flashing red. IE right click arrange by.... or moving contents in anyways. My advice is get someone to drop a can when they asshat comes along the guy inthe beg nasty ship will blast him. - .
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.04.14 18:49:00 - [95] Quote: Drones dont attack untill you tell them to, unless someone/something agresses you after there launched. Maybe that's the way it SHOULD be, but just today my drones were circling my ship, when the frig I was attempting to target finally got targeted, bam, off my drones go to attack, the sscond the target animation finished.
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2007.04.14 20:21:00 - [96] Suggestion to the OP, one which macro-coders figured out like 2 hours after the can flagging feature was implemented... ... set your overview to show corp tickers as well as cans. If you keep a char in a newbie school and target only macro miners from that school... you can annoy them to no end because the macro won't distinguish between a friendly can and a flipped can. If the corp ticker changes, don't mess with the can unless you've got a combat boat standing by.
Dread Soul	Posted - 2007.04.14 20:53:00 - [97] Now this aggro stuff is getting real strange, I'm sitting in Osmon at a planet with another one of my characters, they are in different corps and have no standings relative to each other and am freely swapping ore in and out of each others cans with no aggression, no idea whats going on with agression now.
cal nereus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.04.15 09:39:00 - [98] I'd rather run away (or just continue mining undefended) than have combat drones out when I'm mining in high security. And if rats pop in, warp out o' course.
Grytok	Posted - 2007.04.15 11:50:00 - [99] /!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\ If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed. The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own. He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand. This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU. Simple as that .
Arknox Minmatar The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.15 12:54:00 - [100] Originally by: Grytok /!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\ If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed. The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own. He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand. This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU. Simple as that If that is true then ---------- Originally by: JeanPierre You need to examine Minmatar ships bro. No kidding, I tried to Salvage one last night. Took me 20 cycles before the pilot convoed me and told me to stop it.
Talkie Toaster Amarr Incoherent Inc	Posted - 2007.04.15 13:11:00 - [101] Originally by: Grytok /!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\ If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed. The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own. He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand. This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU. Simple as that thats bad if it is the case. a burgler breaks into my house and grabs my tv. i take it back and get done for theft. sadly in the UK that can probably happen at the moment
Vincent Gaines Avis de Captura	Posted - 2007.04.15 15:17:00 - [102] Originally by: Grytok /!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\ If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed. The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own. He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand. This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU. Simple as that It's very true, and how I killed a good share of macro miners/farmers early last year. I never considered it a bug, because I always assumed I was flagged also.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.04.15 15:40:00 - [103] Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:55:40 Jastor, just for your info, so this thread does not get locked - You are not allowed to discuss GM actions on the forums. Anyways, ask again or ask the petition be escalated. If this was some sort of undocumented feature I am fairly sure you will get an answer. Time to bring down the lock bomb then, because the GM's actions there are a crock. CCP playing smoke and mirrors with its mechanics is completely out of line. Rules in MMOs change, but to simply play the "I don't have to tell you what the rules are if I don't feel like it" is complete bull****. If anything, that kind of behavior gives weight to the accusations of favoritism towards certain players that have come out in light of some of the recent BoB allegations. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Timmeh ([email protected])
Vincent Gaines Avis de Captura	Posted - 2007.04.15 16:12:00 - [104] Osprey web, scram, assault launchers, SBII, etc. next time give him a nasty surprise when he comes in a paper-thin condor to steal your loot.
Eva d'Ray	Posted - 2007.04.15 20:56:00 - [105] Originally by: Grytok /!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\ If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed. The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own. He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand. This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU. Simple as that We tried this in corp, with alts that are not in corp under several conditions and did not manage to reproduce what is been posted above. IMO Urban Legend until proven otherwise Let's bring in the Mythbusters!! /me loves that show :D
Vincent Gaines Avis de Captura	Posted - 2007.04.15 22:19:00 - [106] Originally by: Eva d'Ray Originally by: Grytok /!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\ If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed. The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own. He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand. This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU. Simple as that We tried this in corp, with alts that are not in corp under several conditions and did not manage to reproduce what is been posted above. IMO Urban Legend until proven otherwise Let's bring in the Mythbusters!! /me loves that show :D try about 12 stacks and as one is pulling it back into the hold, have the other doing the same. I believe the game gets confused at that point. The timing has to be just right.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.04.15 23:34:00 - [107] If the guy that has the guns on your team creates the can, doesnt he get the flag to shoot the ore thief if ore is stolen even if the various miners put ore in there ?
Grytok	Posted - 2007.04.15 23:48:00 - [108] Originally by: Eva d'Ray Originally by: Grytok /!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\ If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed. The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own. He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand. This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU. Simple as that We tried this in corp, with alts that are not in corp under several conditions and did not manage to reproduce what is been posted above. IMO Urban Legend until proven otherwise Let's bring in the Mythbusters!! /me loves that show :D I've tried this out for a few times, as this what was happened to one of my CorpMates in his Hulk. I could reproduce this as often as I wanted to, whenever I was first to get my hands on the Item before the owner of the can. Sure... I do get flagged as well, but that does not interest any of those ORE-thieves. So yeah, it's only about timing. .
Iczer X01 Caldari Darkwave Technologies Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.06.28 14:36:00 - [109] Any updates on this? A similar incident happened to me where i had a jetcan and saw a ship getting really close so I moved the ore into my hold only to see the other ship open fire on me. I tried to test what was posted in this thread about dragging and not letting go but I coudlnt get it to work with multiple characters in different corps. Proud member of Darkwave Technologies and Chaos Incarnate.
NightmoonEagle Minmatar Matari BackBone	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:14:00 - [110] Greetings all, I took the time today to test some theories that have been put forward in this thread. Namely, the drones aggro and the multiple characters taking goods at the same time. Setup: Two characters, different corporations, different computers. Same Operator. My results are: Mining Drones out at time of theft, switched to hobgoblins prior to "thief" returning. Drones did NOT aggress the thief, even though he returned while the timer was still running (landing almost on top of the barge pilot). Hobgoblins out at time of theft (just incase the OP was wrong about this). Still, NO aggession towards the thief, though they did go and chase a rat that entered the belt. I waited until the rat was gone, the drones returned to orbit their master's ship (without being commanded to). Taking the goods while another is "in possession of them". I had both characters attempt to take the goods at the same time, and dump them into their cargoholds. No matter how it was done (i.e. with a little delay, with no delay, while "thief" held the goods, while can owner held the goods, etc.) the owner of the can always retained the goods and the "thief" had to wait for the "warning box". Hope this helps a little, though it will probably muddy the waters even more. NmE PoS Manager and Lab Rat Matari Backbone
Fergus Runkle Minmatar	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:15:00 - [111] For those thinking the thief simply made a new can with the same name then switched the contents, that would not work I have tested this, when a can is emptied the window closes, the OP says his window did not close. Let me say that I am not against theft in any of its forms (ore, corp or whatever) I think its part of what makes Eve so impersive. However what I do find totally disgusting is CCP / The GM's not making the rules and mechanic's totally clear. The GM line "not an exploit but we can't tell you why" I just cannot understand. It encourages "grief" type play. The rules and mechanics should be open and transparent for all sides.
Ralitge boyter Minmatar Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:19:00 - [112] Edited by: Ralitge boyter on 29/06/2007 14:21:02 Originally by: NightmoonEagle Greetings all, I took the time today to test some theories that have been put forward in this thread. Namely, the drones aggro and the multiple characters taking goods at the same time. Setup: Two characters, different corporations, different computers. Same Operator. My results are: Mining Drones out at time of theft, switched to hobgoblins prior to "thief" returning. Drones did NOT aggress the thief, even though he returned while the timer was still running (landing almost on top of the barge pilot). Hobgoblins out at time of theft (just incase the OP was wrong about this). Still, NO aggession towards the thief, though they did go and chase a rat that entered the belt. I waited until the rat was gone, the drones returned to orbit their master's ship (without being commanded to). Taking the goods while another is "in possession of them". I had both characters attempt to take the goods at the same time, and dump them into their cargoholds. No matter how it was done (i.e. with a little delay, with no delay, while "thief" held the goods, while can owner held the goods, etc.) the owner of the can always retained the goods and the "thief" had to wait for the "warning box". Hope this helps a little, though it will probably muddy the waters even more. NmE PoS Manager and Lab Rat Matari Backbone Ok, my idea here: original post: Posted - 2007.03.20 16:23:00 The above post: Posted - 29/06/2007 12:14:00 Thats well over 3months of bug fixes and a Rev. II deployment later. I think the exploit existed and CCP hinted at fixing exploits with Rev. II so why would the bug mentioned in the trhird test not be true? My personal opinion is that CCP should alter the EULA and include the following: CCP is obliged to after fixing an exploit anounce the exploit fixed, and what the exploit was. Once this is done players will not get reimbursments for losses caused by this exploit if the request is raised after the fix Any player or player group that makes use of an exploit will loose their account(s). No exceptions not even for a certain alliance mentioned a few times in this post. As for the complaints about CCP and keeping the game mechanics hidden, I think CCP is doing a good job there. If you can name even a single commercial game that provides you a list of all the business rules and functions that make the game to what it is you might be able to prove me wrong. But as far as I know not a single commercial game has ever released such a list and if they did the commercial succes of the game was very limited at best. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:32:00 - [113] Edited by: Winterblink on 29/06/2007 14:31:02 Can flagging is definitely one of those mechanics in the game that is one of the worst documented. Honestly, a developer needs to 1) check that this is working as intended, 2) test the hell out of it to make sure, 3) test it again with someone else who can think outside the confines of code-knowledge, 4) write up a clear and concise explanation of all the ins and outs of can flagging. This is beneficial to new players, and lets people like the OP refer to something when a GM tells him it's working as intended, when in fact it may not be. warp drive active \| nature vraie
gfldex Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.29 14:50:00 - [114] Originally by: Winterblink 4) write up a clear and concise explanation of all the ins and outs of can flagging. This is beneficial to new players, and lets people like the OP refer to something when a GM tells him it's working as intended, when in fact it may not be. https://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=143 https://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=95 To find out that drones should not go after criminal flagged pilots you have to read the patch notes of ... uhh ... err ... a patch a while ago. :) There is a lot stuff in the KB but sadly nobody seams to know about it, not even GMs as I had to learn 2 months ago. -- There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
Bryg Philomena Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:00:00 - [115] IIRC there was a bug if you tried to take YOUR ore from YOUR can at the SAME time he tried to take it. He would get a message like Item XXX is not yours to take. After that you are aggroed to him. Don't know why though. It was a bug in the game. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:00:00 - [116] Originally by: gfldex To find out that drones should not go after criminal flagged pilots you have to read the patch notes of ... uhh ... err ... a patch a while ago. :) Yeah, that's handy :D Originally by: gfldex There is a lot stuff in the KB but sadly nobody seams to know about it, not even GMs as I had to learn 2 months ago. Yeah, I know there's lots in the knowledge base, but it's hardly what I would call a new player resource (except for maybe technical issues). warp drive active \| nature vraie
Vactet Immortalis Silens FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:42:00 - [117] Originally by: Jastor Morbix Originally by: Soulita Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened. Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it. Understand something..the GM's are fracking idiots. The only one that has EVER seemingly read my entire petition was Nova, but thats it. They dont know whats a bug and whats not, nor what an exploit is and whats not. They are like guys, with a hardon, they have VERY selective hearing. In their case the key words are "bumping" "macro" etc instead of boobs. Keep refiling the SAME petition until they actually look at it and try to get it escalated up the chain. I had a mission a while back that when i attacked the rats, concord attacked me (Strangest thing). Took me a month and finally sending in a petition which including me telling the GM he was totally inept and unable to understand common english so he better escalate it to someone that does. He actually did it and it got solved, then i got warned for cursing at GM's. Originally by: Grytok /!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\ If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed. The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own. He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand. This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU. Simple as that Wow thats cheap and underhanded, very dirty..but hmm obviously not an exploit. I love the GM's "Im sorry..i cant tell you". My response is "Im sorry..you are a tool". But yeh..thanks for the headsup..not that i mine in empire but thats always nice to know. Pity that other players know more about this game than the GM's meant to regulate it aint it? Why do we pay them again? Delivering the kick to the jaw of society to stop it from drooling on itself like the ignorant slop it is since 1984. Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:53:00 - [118] Originally by: Grytok /!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\ If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed. The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own. He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand. This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU. Simple as that If this actually works, it really seems like an exploit to me... How can it not be? If you don't get any warning or aggro flag or anything, it's obviously a BUG - and therefore an exploit when used to get people to flag themselves. I would like to hear CCP's arguments for why this should be allowed... ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.

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