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Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2007.04.14 16:13:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Sile Suirghiche on 14/04/2007 16:10:14
 Originally by: Rab
There is a bug extant where drones can aggro people without any logical reason, seems drones can sometimes register someone as being aggressive and attack back if they mess with cans.
While messing about with fittings the other day I took a few shots at a corpmate for test purposes. Later, like fifteen minutes later, in another belt just hanging out while he mined, some rats appeared. When I tossed my drones at them the drones killed the first rat then immediately attacked my corpmate's barge. We were not even targeting each other at that point, and certainly didn't shoot each other after the drones were launched.
Remember: All drones are rogue drones.
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bigJkiller
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Posted - 2007.04.14 17:24:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Jastor Morbix
Originally by: Sapeian
Sound's to me like were not getting the full story,
seems far more likely becuase the guy was in a small ship Jastor agroed back with drones,
and thus got popped.
thats what i think,
i could be well wrong though.
When the ore was stolen, I had miner drones out. They cant fight. When the theif left, I did put out hobgoblins, but I never targeted him. So unless the drones launched after the theft can auto-attack, I dont see how I agressed them.
<love posting from work :P >
i know how it happend i have done 1 or 2 myself. the question is did his drones kill a npc spawn before he come back if he did then his drones had him flaged also and went to him after npc spawn . kinda like auto fighting drones which is what the are designed to do. after 1 npc go for the others without commands? the drones flaged him and to them he is also like a npc they know no diff.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.14 17:49:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Jastor Morbix
Originally by: Soulita
Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened.
Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it.
I that is the wording it smak of something not jet classed as an exploit but that CCP is not liking and is probably broken.
They will not explain how it is done as they don't want it to spread untill they find how it can be mended.
I would try to petition to an higher level GM.
Seem you were bitten by a bug.
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
Scarlet Scourge Society
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Posted - 2007.04.14 18:33:00 -
[94]
any messing around with a can will have you set to flashing red.
IE right click arrange by.... or moving contents in anyways.
My advice is get someone to drop a can when they asshat comes along the guy inthe beg nasty ship will blast him.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.14 18:49:00 -
[95]
Quote:
Drones dont attack untill you tell them to, unless someone/something agresses you after there launched.
Maybe that's the way it SHOULD be, but just today my drones were circling my ship, when the frig I was attempting to target finally got targeted, bam, off my drones go to attack, the sscond the target animation finished.
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Nox Solaris
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Posted - 2007.04.14 20:21:00 -
[96]
Suggestion to the OP, one which macro-coders figured out like 2 hours after the can flagging feature was implemented...
... set your overview to show corp tickers as well as cans.
If you keep a char in a newbie school and target only macro miners from that school... you can annoy them to no end because the macro won't distinguish between a friendly can and a flipped can.
If the corp ticker changes, don't mess with the can unless you've got a combat boat standing by.
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Dread Soul
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Posted - 2007.04.14 20:53:00 -
[97]
Now this aggro stuff is getting real strange, I'm sitting in Osmon at a planet with another one of my characters, they are in different corps and have no standings relative to each other and am freely swapping ore in and out of each others cans with no aggression, no idea whats going on with agression now.
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cal nereus
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.04.15 09:39:00 -
[98]
I'd rather run away (or just continue mining undefended) than have combat drones out when I'm mining in high security. And if rats pop in, warp out o' course.
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Grytok
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Posted - 2007.04.15 11:50:00 -
[99]
/!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\
If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed.
The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own.
He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand.
This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU.
Simple as that 
.
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Arknox
Minmatar
The Shadow Order
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.15 12:54:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Grytok
/!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\
If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed.
The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own.
He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand.
This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU.
Simple as that
If that is true then 
----------
Originally by: JeanPierre
You need to examine Minmatar ships bro.
No kidding, I tried to Salvage one last night. Took me 20 cycles before the pilot convoed me and told me to stop it.
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Talkie Toaster
Amarr
Incoherent Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.15 13:11:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Grytok
/!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\
If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed.
The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own.
He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand.
This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU.
Simple as that
thats bad if it is the case. a burgler breaks into my house and grabs my tv. i take it back and get done for theft. sadly in the UK that can probably happen at the moment 
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Vincent Gaines
Avis de Captura
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Posted - 2007.04.15 15:17:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Grytok
/!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\
If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed.
The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own.
He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand.
This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU.
Simple as that
It's very true, and how I killed a good share of macro miners/farmers early last year.
I never considered it a bug, because I always assumed I was flagged also.
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.15 15:40:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Soulita
Edited by: Soulita on 20/03/2007 16:55:40
Jastor, just for your info, so this thread does not get locked - You are not allowed to discuss GM actions on the forums.
Anyways, ask again or ask the petition be escalated. If this was some sort of undocumented feature I am fairly sure you will get an answer.
Time to bring down the lock bomb then, because the GM's actions there are a crock. CCP playing smoke and mirrors with its mechanics is completely out of line. Rules in MMOs change, but to simply play the "I don't have to tell you what the rules are if I don't feel like it" is complete bull****.
If anything, that kind of behavior gives weight to the accusations of favoritism towards certain players that have come out in light of some of the recent BoB allegations.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Timmeh ([email protected]) |
Vincent Gaines
Avis de Captura
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Posted - 2007.04.15 16:12:00 -
[104]
Osprey
web, scram, assault launchers, SBII, etc.
next time give him a nasty surprise when he comes in a paper-thin condor to steal your loot.
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Eva d'Ray
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Posted - 2007.04.15 20:56:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Grytok
/!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\
If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed.
The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own.
He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand.
This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU.
Simple as that
We tried this in corp, with alts that are not in corp under several conditions and did not manage to reproduce what is been posted above.
IMO Urban Legend until proven otherwise
Let's bring in the Mythbusters!!
/me loves that show :D
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Vincent Gaines
Avis de Captura
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Posted - 2007.04.15 22:19:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Eva d'Ray
Originally by: Grytok
/!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\
If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed.
The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own.
He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand.
This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU.
Simple as that
We tried this in corp, with alts that are not in corp under several conditions and did not manage to reproduce what is been posted above.
IMO Urban Legend until proven otherwise
Let's bring in the Mythbusters!!
/me loves that show :D
try about 12 stacks and as one is pulling it back into the hold, have the other doing the same. I believe the game gets confused at that point. The timing has to be just right.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.15 23:34:00 -
[107]
If the guy that has the guns on your team creates the can, doesnt he get the flag to shoot the ore thief if ore is stolen even if the various miners put ore in there ?
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Grytok
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Posted - 2007.04.15 23:48:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Eva d'Ray
Originally by: Grytok
/!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\
If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed.
The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own.
He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand.
This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU.
Simple as that
We tried this in corp, with alts that are not in corp under several conditions and did not manage to reproduce what is been posted above.
IMO Urban Legend until proven otherwise
Let's bring in the Mythbusters!!
/me loves that show :D
I've tried this out for a few times, as this what was happened to one of my CorpMates in his Hulk.
I could reproduce this as often as I wanted to, whenever I was first to get my hands on the Item before the owner of the can.
Sure... I do get flagged as well, but that does not interest any of those ORE-thieves.
So yeah, it's only about timing.
.
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Iczer X01
Caldari
Darkwave Technologies
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.06.28 14:36:00 -
[109]
Any updates on this? A similar incident happened to me where i had a jetcan and saw a ship getting really close so I moved the ore into my hold only to see the other ship open fire on me. I tried to test what was posted in this thread about dragging and not letting go but I coudlnt get it to work with multiple characters in different corps.
Proud member of Darkwave Technologies and Chaos Incarnate. |
NightmoonEagle
Minmatar
Matari BackBone
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Posted - 2007.06.29 12:14:00 -
[110]
Greetings all,
I took the time today to test some theories that have been put forward in this thread. Namely, the drones aggro and the multiple characters taking goods at the same time.
Setup:
Two characters, different corporations, different computers. Same Operator.
My results are:
Mining Drones out at time of theft, switched to hobgoblins prior to "thief" returning. Drones did NOT aggress the thief, even though he returned while the timer was still running (landing almost on top of the barge pilot).
Hobgoblins out at time of theft (just incase the OP was wrong about this). Still, NO aggession towards the thief, though they did go and chase a rat that entered the belt. I waited until the rat was gone, the drones returned to orbit their master's ship (without being commanded to).
Taking the goods while another is "in possession of them". I had both characters attempt to take the goods at the same time, and dump them into their cargoholds. No matter how it was done (i.e. with a little delay, with no delay, while "thief" held the goods, while can owner held the goods, etc.) the owner of the can always retained the goods and the "thief" had to wait for the "warning box".
Hope this helps a little, though it will probably muddy the waters even more.
NmE
PoS Manager and Lab Rat
Matari Backbone
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Fergus Runkle
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.29 12:15:00 -
[111]
For those thinking the thief simply made a new can with the same name then switched the contents, that would not work I have tested this, when a can is emptied the window closes, the OP says his window did not close.
Let me say that I am not against theft in any of its forms (ore, corp or whatever) I think its part of what makes Eve so impersive.
However what I do find totally disgusting is CCP / The GM's not making the rules and mechanic's totally clear. The GM line "not an exploit but we can't tell you why" I just cannot understand.
It encourages "grief" type play. The rules and mechanics should be open and transparent for all sides.
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Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.06.29 14:19:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Ralitge boyter on 29/06/2007 14:21:02
Originally by: NightmoonEagle
Greetings all,
I took the time today to test some theories that have been put forward in this thread. Namely, the drones aggro and the multiple characters taking goods at the same time.
Setup:
Two characters, different corporations, different computers. Same Operator.
My results are:
Mining Drones out at time of theft, switched to hobgoblins prior to "thief" returning. Drones did NOT aggress the thief, even though he returned while the timer was still running (landing almost on top of the barge pilot).
Hobgoblins out at time of theft (just incase the OP was wrong about this). Still, NO aggession towards the thief, though they did go and chase a rat that entered the belt. I waited until the rat was gone, the drones returned to orbit their master's ship (without being commanded to).
Taking the goods while another is "in possession of them". I had both characters attempt to take the goods at the same time, and dump them into their cargoholds. No matter how it was done (i.e. with a little delay, with no delay, while "thief" held the goods, while can owner held the goods, etc.) the owner of the can always retained the goods and the "thief" had to wait for the "warning box".
Hope this helps a little, though it will probably muddy the waters even more.
NmE
PoS Manager and Lab Rat
Matari Backbone
Ok, my idea here: original post: Posted - 2007.03.20 16:23:00
The above post: Posted - 29/06/2007 12:14:00
Thats well over 3months of bug fixes and a Rev. II deployment later. I think the exploit existed and CCP hinted at fixing exploits with Rev. II so why would the bug mentioned in the trhird test not be true?
My personal opinion is that CCP should alter the EULA and include the following:
- CCP is obliged to after fixing an exploit anounce the exploit fixed, and what the exploit was. Once this is done players will not get reimbursments for losses caused by this exploit if the request is raised after the fix
- Any player or player group that makes use of an exploit will loose their account(s). No exceptions not even for a certain alliance mentioned a few times in this post.
As for the complaints about CCP and keeping the game mechanics hidden, I think CCP is doing a good job there. If you can name even a single commercial game that provides you a list of all the business rules and functions that make the game to what it is you might be able to prove me wrong. But as far as I know not a single commercial game has ever released such a list and if they did the commercial succes of the game was very limited at best.
-------------------------------------------
Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me. |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.29 14:32:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Winterblink on 29/06/2007 14:31:02
Can flagging is definitely one of those mechanics in the game that is one of the worst documented. Honestly, a developer needs to 1) check that this is working as intended, 2) test the hell out of it to make sure, 3) test it again with someone else who can think outside the confines of code-knowledge, 4) write up a clear and concise explanation of all the ins and outs of can flagging.
This is beneficial to new players, and lets people like the OP refer to something when a GM tells him it's working as intended, when in fact it may not be.
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gfldex
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.29 14:50:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Winterblink
4) write up a clear and concise explanation of all the ins and outs of can flagging.
This is beneficial to new players, and lets people like the OP refer to something when a GM tells him it's working as intended, when in fact it may not be.
https://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=143
https://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=95
To find out that drones should not go after criminal flagged pilots you have to read the patch notes of ... uhh ... err ... a patch a while ago. :)
There is a lot stuff in the KB but sadly nobody seams to know about it, not even GMs as I had to learn 2 months ago.
--
There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
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Bryg Philomena
Green Lantern Corps
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Posted - 2007.06.29 15:00:00 -
[115]
IIRC there was a bug if you tried to take YOUR ore from YOUR can at the SAME time he tried to take it. He would get a message like Item XXX is not yours to take. After that you are aggroed to him. Don't know why though. It was a bug in the game.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.29 15:00:00 -
[116]
Originally by: gfldex
To find out that drones should not go after criminal flagged pilots you have to read the patch notes of ... uhh ... err ... a patch a while ago. :)
Yeah, that's handy :D
Originally by: gfldex
There is a lot stuff in the KB but sadly nobody seams to know about it, not even GMs as I had to learn 2 months ago.
Yeah, I know there's lots in the knowledge base, but it's hardly what I would call a new player resource (except for maybe technical issues).
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Vactet
Immortalis Silens
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.29 15:42:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Jastor Morbix
Originally by: Soulita
Ask the GM to check the logs. He will be able to see what happened.
Yeah tried that.. he said he checked the logs... not an exploit... Also said hes not premitted to tell me how they did it.
Understand something..the GM's are fracking idiots. The only one that has EVER seemingly read my entire petition was Nova, but thats it.
They dont know whats a bug and whats not, nor what an exploit is and whats not.
They are like guys, with a hardon, they have VERY selective hearing. In their case the key words are "bumping" "macro" etc instead of boobs.
Keep refiling the SAME petition until they actually look at it and try to get it escalated up the chain. I had a mission a while back that when i attacked the rats, concord attacked me (Strangest thing). Took me a month and finally sending in a petition which including me telling the GM he was totally inept and unable to understand common english so he better escalate it to someone that does. He actually did it and it got solved, then i got warned for cursing at GM's.
Originally by: Grytok
/!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\
If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed.
The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own.
He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand.
This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU.
Simple as that
Wow thats cheap and underhanded, very dirty..but hmm obviously not an exploit.
I love the GM's "Im sorry..i cant tell you". My response is "Im sorry..you are a tool".
But yeh..thanks for the headsup..not that i mine in empire but thats always nice to know. Pity that other players know more about this game than the GM's meant to regulate it aint it? Why do we pay them again?
Delivering the kick to the jaw of society to stop it from drooling on itself like the ignorant slop it is since 1984.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed.
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Alora Venoda
Caldari
GalTech
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Posted - 2007.06.29 15:53:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Grytok
/!\ ATTENTION PLEASE /!\
If you are JetCan-Mining, there is a very simple way to get you agressed.
The thieve grabs an item in YOUR jetcan, but does not move it to his own.
He does not release the item as well, so when you drag the stuff over to YOUR cargo, then YOU have stolen out of HIS hand.
This will not show you the Warning, but the agression is assigned to YOU.
Simple as that
If this actually works, it really seems like an exploit to me... How can it not be? If you don't get any warning or aggro flag or anything, it's obviously a BUG - and therefore an exploit when used to get people to flag themselves. I would like to hear CCP's arguments for why this should be allowed...
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
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