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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
4035
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Posted - 2016.09.26 15:15:39 -
[1] - Quote
FITTING SIMULATION HAS NOT BEEN TURNED ON ON SISI YET, STAY TUNED
Hey spacefriends
Today I'm here to talk to you about our upcoming update to the fitting window, where it's at and, what our plans are going forward.
As a refresher, this update (which began its life with the working title of Ghostfitting), adds an ingame fitting simulator that will allow you try out fits without owning the items or having the skills for them. You'll be able to see how the stats change as you activate and overheat your weapons, change charges, and add or remove rigs. You'll be able find out before you buy all the modules that you are actually 1% short on CPU.
You first heard us talk about and show you Fitting Simulation at last year's Fanfest, but at that point it was very much a side project that was nowhere to be found on any roadmap yet. Your reactions were super encouraging and confirmed to us that it was worth pursuing and we added it to our official plans. However, as sometimes happens with many project of varying degrees of priorities, Fitting Simulation sadly had to be sidelined for a while, as we focused on delivering you features such as Multibuy, Multifit and Citadel. With Citadel out the door and fallout being dealt with, work on Fitting Simulation picked up again and we are now at the point where we'd like to invite you to join us on Singularity to help us out with testing it!
The feature has been developed in a way that allows us to offer you guys to opt in to use it as well as disable the feature completely if needed, and in fact a rough version of it has been on TQ for months. We intend to turn on the Fitting Simulation on Singularity today to get good test coverage, but we don't have firm plans yet on when it will be released. There are so many different modules and moving parts that expect there to be things here and there that don't work quite as intended, and we would really appreciate your help finding them and giving us general feedback. We will keep close eye on your feedback and bug reports, and later make decision on when to release the feature on TQ. With that in mind, lets take you through how the feature works.
We have an entirely new Fitting window, which in the future should replace the old one, and the Simulation functionality is integrated into that window. The new one is pretty much like the old one, with a few additions.
The following changes have been made to the Fitting window:- alpha strike has been added to the damage section
- damage section shows dps both with and without reloading
- drone panel added, it shows min/max drone range, bandwidth, control range and drone dps
- drone dps now shows either the dps of the deployed drones, or the top 5 drones drone bay
- only 1 dps number is now displayed in the GÇ£OffenseGÇ¥ panel, but a break down of the dps (turrets, launchers, drones, smartbombs) can be seen in the tooltip.
- align time has been added to the navigation section
- booster/repair amounts now take into account whether ancillary boosters/repairers are charged or not
- capacitor simulation takes into account charges in capacitor boosters and their reload times (as before it's only an estimation)
- yellow stats preview has been removed and instead accurate preview numbers can be seen in Simulation mode.
- saving fitting will include the charges in the modules (also applies to old window)
- group all button
- estimated price of ship & equipment + buy all button
- ehp is calculated assuming omnidamage, rather than showing the ehp for the damage type you are weakest to
I wrote a long section on the Simulation mode itself and its features, but on second thought I think it's better to just let you try it and figure it out. I hope it's intuitive and easy enough to grasp and use that long explanations are not needed, but if there's anything that you don't get or wasn't clear, please let us know so we can address it!
To activate the the updated fitting window, open the ESC window, go to the GÇ£General SettingsGÇ¥ tab and check the GÇ£Try new fitting windowGÇ¥ checkbox. After doing that, you will have a new Beta Fitting Window under the E menu, and can drag it to the Neocom like any other button. For now, by opting into using the updated fitting window, you can use both fitting windows, but this will not always be the case.
We do realize this tool does not offer all the options some of the awesome 3rd party tools do, and thatGÇÖs very much by design. There are great 3rd party tools out there that do all sorts of crazy calculations for you, but in the ingame fitting window, we want to stick to the basics and lower the barrier to engaging with the fitting meta game without overwhelming people with too many options.
Please note that it's still work in progress and some of the UI elements need more polish, but please let us know what you think (and keep the feedback to this thread)... what works well, what doesn't work well for your use cases or anything else you want to share with us
Known issues:- loading simulated ships (especially with many drones) takes a bit longer than it needs to
- Turning on the GÇÿresourceGÇÖ filter takes a long time the first time for each ship. ItGÇÖs a lot of processing, but will be made faster soon
- Picking drones when there are many drones in bay is not ideal, will be addressed soon and some changes made to the drone panel
- Fighters cannot be simulated yet
Bugreports: When submitting bugreports, please submit them from within the client (press F12 to access it) and please include screenshots and if applicable, the fit you are having issues with (by exporting the fit to clipboard and adding it to the bugreport). It would also be great if you could use the prefix GÇ£GhostfittingGÇ¥ in the bugreport name.
CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
4035
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Posted - 2016.09.26 15:15:54 -
[2] - Quote
reserved for stuffs
CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
742
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Posted - 2016.09.26 15:22:53 -
[3] - Quote
We'll be turning the feature on shortly, watch this space!
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
@CCP_Lebowski
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6194
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Posted - 2016.09.26 15:43:54 -
[4] - Quote
\o/
Now I can **** fit ships, without spending my isk!
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Yadaryon Vondawn
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
125
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Posted - 2016.09.26 15:58:24 -
[5] - Quote
Nice feature :D
Some things I noticed:
- When I expand drones another stat window folds itself
- Maybe it is an idea to round the alpha strike as it now, at first sight, appears as a very high number
- Alpha strike description reads: _description of alpha strike_
- The ship is counted twice in the price
- The effects of overheating a tracking module can't be seen on the charge directly, can we get the trackingspeed/weapon accuracy score be showed on the mouseover of the charge?
Will add more if I find them, after SiSi has rebooted ;) |
Lady Aesir
Ghost Recon Inc
22
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Posted - 2016.09.26 18:06:54 -
[6] - Quote
How are you supposed to add drones/fighters to a ghost fitting when the fighter bay does not open? or the cargo bay either
Would be nice to have a dropdown below the ship visuals that displays the fighter/drone bay contents. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3585
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Posted - 2016.09.26 18:23:13 -
[7] - Quote
haven't found a way to display how much a ship can tank effectively. Tank in HP is of limited use what you usually want to know is the dps tank, not HP repaired.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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NoobMan
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
298
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Posted - 2016.09.26 18:33:20 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Karkur's innovation to the game are incredible. Multifit and now this.
Super stoked!
Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
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KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
977
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Posted - 2016.09.26 18:50:17 -
[9] - Quote
CCP proving your dream can become the immersion!
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
4043
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Posted - 2016.09.26 19:14:13 -
[10] - Quote
Lady Aesir wrote:How are you supposed to add drones/fighters to a ghost fitting when the fighter bay does not open? or the cargo bay either
Would be nice to have a dropdown below the ship visuals that displays the fighter/drone bay contents. As stated in the post, fighters cannot be ghostfitted yet... but drones you can add either by dropping them on the drone part of the fitting window like normally (shift dragging will allow you to add multiple) or by double clicking the drone in the browser. We are not entirely happy with the drone/cargo icons and that it's hard to see you can interact with them, and will be looking into it
Once you have added something to the drone/cargo bay, you can click on the drone/cargo area in the fitting window to get a drop down showing the contents of the bays
CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
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Nuadi
Pathway to the Next
0
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Posted - 2016.09.26 19:30:56 -
[11] - Quote
Quote:ehp is calculated assuming omnidamage, rather than showing the ehp for the damage type you are weakest to
While I realize your design is aimed at lowering the bar, this tool lacks a connection with Mission or Ratting players. It would be very benificial to have damage profiles for common enemies (e.g. Angel Cartel, Serpentis, etc.) so that players building mission fits will have a better idea of their capabilities.
Overall, this is a very nice implementation. I suggest
- Add a plane for the grid so that it is visible from below the ship as well, since the camera defaults to a upward angle
- In the module tooltip, indicate what the next click will do. E.g. "Active Module. Click to Overheat"
- The charges display is inconsistent with the Modules display. I suggest listing the current module types that are fit into the charges list, and then upon expansion list the charges that fit into that module. Having "tabs" at the top is a break in navigation paradigms that's not immediately intuitive
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Cade Windstalker
559
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Posted - 2016.09.26 19:46:13 -
[12] - Quote
Nuadi wrote:Quote:ehp is calculated assuming omnidamage, rather than showing the ehp for the damage type you are weakest to While I realize your design is aimed at lowering the bar, this tool lacks a connection with Mission or Ratting players. It would be very benificial to have damage profiles for common enemies (e.g. Angel Cartel, Serpentis, etc.) so that players building mission fits will have a better idea of their capabilities.
I think rather than giving damage profiles, which can actually vary pretty significantly based on what exactly is shooting you, it would be more beneficial to just allow the player to set damage ratios with sliders or some other way.
For example while Angel Cartel rats primarily deal Explosive and Kinetic damage the ratios of these values change based on what's shooting you, someone who is speed tanked may be more concerned about the primarily explosive missiles, and there is at least one mission with significant EM damage from an Angel rat.
Similarly the ratios of Thermal and Kinetic damage change significantly for Serpentis rats depending on if you're fighting Frigates or Battleships.
The damage profiles that are widely publicized are player-made estimates or used databases like Chruker to simply average all rats, which gives a profile for the faction but may be less applicable to a given mission. |
Captain Campion
Captain Campion Corporation 1
27
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Posted - 2016.09.26 20:09:53 -
[13] - Quote
Literally been waiting 10 yrs for this. Looks great :) |
Nuadi
Pathway to the Next
0
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Posted - 2016.09.26 20:21:58 -
[14] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Nuadi wrote:Quote:ehp is calculated assuming omnidamage, rather than showing the ehp for the damage type you are weakest to While I realize your design is aimed at lowering the bar, this tool lacks a connection with Mission or Ratting players. It would be very benificial to have damage profiles for common enemies (e.g. Angel Cartel, Serpentis, etc.) so that players building mission fits will have a better idea of their capabilities. I think rather than giving damage profiles, which can actually vary pretty significantly based on what exactly is shooting you, it would be more beneficial to just allow the player to set damage ratios with sliders or some other way. For example while Angel Cartel rats primarily deal Explosive and Kinetic damage the ratios of these values change based on what's shooting you, someone who is speed tanked may be more concerned about the primarily explosive missiles, and there is at least one mission with significant EM damage from an Angel rat. Similarly the ratios of Thermal and Kinetic damage change significantly for Serpentis rats depending on if you're fighting Frigates or Battleships. The damage profiles that are widely publicized are player-made estimates or used databases like Chruker to simply average all rats, which gives a profile for the faction but may be less applicable to a given mission.
While I agree that damage varies, the idea would be to simply give an average or at the very least drop damage types that won't be encountered which would improve the assessment of the fit.
The fidelity you're talking about is best left to third-party devs where we can get as granular as we like with the damage types, targets, etc. This tool, being in-game and more widely applicable, would be better suited with a broad average profile for a given faction. |
Phaezen Orti
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
3
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Posted - 2016.09.26 20:31:18 -
[15] - Quote
Would be nice to be able to right click on a module and open tab where you can see the variants of the module and swap them with the currently fit module. Would make it easier to compare the effect on you ship's stats |
Captain Campion
Captain Campion Corporation 1
27
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Posted - 2016.09.26 20:32:51 -
[16] - Quote
Idea: could we select damage profiles, pre-populated with various rat types - or even the current mission? |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
16595
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Posted - 2016.09.26 21:05:05 -
[17] - Quote
Can we have customzable damage profile where someone can put percent of type of damage somewhere? Maybe an icon or button with text "damage profile" on it that when clicked will give you a window where you input numbers.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
430
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Posted - 2016.09.26 21:28:11 -
[18] - Quote
NoobMan wrote:CCP Karkur's innovation to the game are incredible. Multifit and now this.
Super stoked!
dont forget multisell/buy!
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1074
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Posted - 2016.09.26 22:26:22 -
[19] - Quote
\o/ thanks. Great tofu ally be able to test this and have it in game on TQ soon.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
68
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Posted - 2016.09.26 22:36:32 -
[20] - Quote
Looking forward to this feature!
Join our Minarchist Revolution!
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Uncle Dunk
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.09.26 22:37:38 -
[21] - Quote
One of the best thing you got have done for player retention come November. This should help accessibility. Thanks Karkur. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18301
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Posted - 2016.09.26 22:51:38 -
[22] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:can we have an estimate price,
CCP karkur wrote:
- estimated price of ship & equipment
karkur, my new favorite dev
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
=]|[=
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Bobb Bobbington
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
344
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Posted - 2016.09.27 00:08:09 -
[23] - Quote
May I request an "advanced tracking button" where when clicked instead of showing the silly tracking formula it shows the metrics which us Eve players are already used to, being tracking speed and gun sig? It would simply expand to show it so that newbros wouldn't be forced to see it while vets can use it for fitting their ships.
This is a signature.
It has a 25m signature.
No it's not a cosmic signature.
Probably.
Btw my corp's recruiting.
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
601
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Posted - 2016.09.27 00:45:59 -
[24] - Quote
Issues found
- the charges filter will not display the 2nd type of ammo. Eg if I have a turret fitted and then want to add a missile launcher as well, then i am only given charge options for the turret. Missile charges are not displayed.
- Had an issue where I couldn't turn off the simulate button (click button did nothing) and I had to exit the fitting window instead.
- Are you calculating stacking penalties on the citadels for damage mods ? (you might be.. my maths is bad)
Requests
- Filter EHP by incoming damage type/mix.
- A dps graph showing dps/tracking vs a given sig radius/velocity/angle would be awesome.
Yes EFT does this but honestly that tool is not regularly updated anymore and the official download links are on malware filled revenue raising sites. While I have total thanks for the author for his many years of effort, the current state of EFT and the dangers of downloading it.. mean that a ingame tool with some advanced capabilities would be very welcome.
Will be especially useful to people purchasing their first citadel. eg they load it with damage mods and large radius missiles for max dps only to find that its paper dps does not apply at all to subcaps when their citadel comes under attack.
- Ability to turn off and on modules (not just offline) and overheat them.
Will update as I find more.
"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave." | zoonr-Korsairs |
Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
590
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Posted - 2016.09.27 03:46:27 -
[25] - Quote
This is the kind of innovation i think all of us can agree on! Nice work
@lunettelulu7
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MikeyWoo
Fritz.. E.B.O.L.A.
0
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Posted - 2016.09.27 06:57:36 -
[26] - Quote
There is an info on AB and MWD for active Speed etc its missing on the simulation |
Soleil Fournier
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
147
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Posted - 2016.09.27 08:37:29 -
[27] - Quote
Love this!
Usability:
1) Whatever combination of clicks I was doing was automatically turning on slot filters without me wanting to turn them on. I'd have to go back and un-check the low slot filter when I wanted to go to look for medium slot mods. It took me some time to figure out that was what was happening. These filters should only turn on when a player specifically clicks them.
2) I kept trying to drag the fitting window to enlarge it, but the window doesn't allow you to scale it bigger, which is quite annoying.
3) Activate/Deactivate/Online/Offline/Unfit should all be right click options for the modules. Right now only Offline/Unfit are.
Visually:
1) The "Open Radial Menu for X Slots" Doesn't really stand out, and should be made more bold or a different color.
2) I don't particularly like the grid lines....I'd like it if the ship "floated" above them rather than them going straight through the ship, or if the lines were more muted when passing through the hull.
3) Those grid lines disappear when looking at the ship from below.
4) I think the "Simulate my current ship" button is out of place. Perhaps changing the button to be a 'tab' under the skins and browser tabs would be a better fit.
5) Same for "Exit Simulation Mode" and Module/Skill mode. They feel sandwiched in as an afterthought, and should probably be moved to the 'browser' area.
Stats:
1) Active Warfare links need to add their bonus to the ship. Having the ability to see the effect of links on my ship is pretty important.
2) Would be great if you guys could add a "Ship Tracking Score" somewhere so players can finally have an idea of what their ship can do tracking wise and how adding/removing tracking mods affects their ships offensive abilities. (Along with a legend to understand what the score means). |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects
837
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Posted - 2016.09.27 10:53:51 -
[28] - Quote
After using it for a little while these inconsistencies stand out.
Comparing ammo requires a double click to load while all other modules generate compare info on mouse over.
Price does not stand out the first time I looked around for it.
Boosts could be added.
A back and forth button so you can flip between two or more fits would be nice.
If I am cycling a module to see the change in stats I really do not want to see the stats if its turned off.
When a stat change turning green or red should do so at all times some state changes do not generate the color text.
A simulate fit button in the kill report screen would seem a great time saver. Its under the save fitting tab but its not clear from a UI perspective maybe change all save fitting buttons to a fitting management icon?
Other wise great job will post as I see more issues.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe.
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Soleil Fournier
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
147
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Posted - 2016.09.27 11:03:04 -
[29] - Quote
It appears that the EHP is being determined by a uniform damage projection. That's a change from how it is on TQ, where EHP is based on the lowest ship resistance.
Allowing us to modify incoming damage type would be useful. |
Sp1iff
Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.09.27 11:06:26 -
[30] - Quote
Can anyone confirm if this works with combat booster side effects?
In particular the ability to show ships stats by changing which side effect you may get (like in eft)
Thanks |
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