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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:47:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Velsharoon james, I live in 0.0, I pvp non stop. We all have the same tools available to us, and so howcome we can manage not to be ganked etc yet you people cant?
Today was hard for us to, 1 mega and 1 inty vs 3 intys omen and some other ships, but through decent piloting and 1337 skillz things were ok.
The local bears were actually active and usin brains, instead of being quite frankly muppets and just glancing at local
I reject your argumentsm but fact is neither of us has evidence either way what will happen, just predict. and I predict the opposite.
Either way...it just feels right for most people posting here. This is eve as it should be.
Living alone in the middle of EVE-nowhere is not the same as living in low security with dozens of people flying through on an hourly basis.
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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:50:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Velsharoon [b]randomness
Living alone in the middle of EVE-nowhere is not the same as living in low security with dozens of people flying through on an hourly basis.
Did that to for 2 years, as pirates we had to look out for antirats etc. Stuff is all the same no matter what side of the fence your on.
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:51:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Masheine
Originally by: James Duar AFK'ing recons get even more disruptive.
How? You'll never know it's there.
I thought the whole reason AFK recons are disruptive is because of local.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:52:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Velsharoon
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Velsharoon [b]randomness
Living alone in the middle of EVE-nowhere is not the same as living in low security with dozens of people flying through on an hourly basis.
Did that to for 2 years, as pirates we had to look out for antirats etc. Stuff is all the same no matter what side of the fence your on.
You obviously stopped for a reason, and I doubt that reason was because CCP stopped leaving milk and cookies for you at the nearest station.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:53:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Derovius Vaden How about no; if you pirates want to be anti-social shut ins that hide in big expanses of empty space, all the power to you. But stay out of my business.
Yes I do, I want to pop out of nowhere, murder some poor sods and retreat back to the shadows unseen, just as the 'wildlands' should be...
Down with local!
And you're the first ninny back in here crying about not having anyone to play with in low security. You want more people to shoot? Make them feel safe, not exposed; stop shooting yourself in the foot and calling it an improvement.
I don't even operate in low sec, I live purely in 0.0, ergo a +5 security status...
No local is a double edged sword, and something 0.0 really needs in my opinion... ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Joe Papa
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:53:00 -
[66]
(this is off topic but . . . I thought we already have constelation chat, no one uses it because no one knows about it. That or . . . my computer is royally screwed, and high on something I want)
No local would be a bad idea, currently. However, if CCP saw fit to make it easier to scan out where people are/scan for cloacked ships, getting rid of Local might be more interesting. Having warp signartures seems like a bad idea, unless they fade in like 3-5 minutes (maybe faster with skills?). People warp alot, and those warp signatures would just clog up your scan.
From an RP perspective, though, having local makes sense, it's just a comms channel you're automatically entered into as soon as you jump into a system. The pod pilots are hooked up to some kind of sensor system on the star gates that notifies them when someone new jumps into the system through the gates. It makes sense to keep this function for Empire, as it would be the Empires running this "Local" Channel Service, and probably even for NPC Sov nullsec systems, as the NPC's are running the service (to keep tabs on capsuleers in the system). If allainces could choose to run this function or not in systems they had Sov, would be interesting, as that means that all none sov systems (and some controlled by players) would not have a decent "Local" channel as no one is there to run the gates properly.
Just my two pence, and crazy/wortheless as usual
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Redpants
Gallente Dead Eagle North Star Confederation
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:53:00 -
[67]
I liked it while it lasted. I think that having local numbers is a good thing like your ship detects x number of ship signatures but you have to actually scan to see where or who they are by flying out to them and you woulnd't see them show in local unless they spoke is cool by me, or get rid of it. Either or. This is for 0.0 not low or high sec. _____________________________________________________________________ "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red." |
ArchenTheGreat
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:53:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Velsharoon
That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/
Not blob? If anything it will encourage blobbing. People will move only in gangs because solo flying will be suicide.
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Korizan
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:58:00 -
[69]
After looking at this I believe this would work.
0.0 Only leave high sec alone it is controlled space. 0.0 is unregulated so nobody around to report who is in it.
1. Lose the numbers in system count. (In for the penny in for the pound) 2. Show Corp / Alliance members only in local (You are a team so seeing each other is no surprise) 3. Lose the constellation chat 4. Maybe allow people is they have a + standing to be seen in local same premise as above. 5. you talk in local you show up period (to reset simply zone)
Now you are saying that means the pirates and hostiles are hidden. Well you are hidden to them as well. Can you say watch the gate with a cloaker. This would put probes back in the game BIG TIME. You jump into system drop a large range probe see what is there and decide.
Situations. I want to gank some miners in the belts. Jump in with 4 friends. I can either start jumping around the belts blindly hoping someone is there. or I can drop a probe. If you blindly jump around you might run into miners or a ratting group that just may turn around and kill you. Or you could have ran into a blob just sitting at a SS you would not know without scanning.
This will help both the hunter and the hunted. It would make 0.0 safer in some ways and more dangerous in others a nice balance.
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:00:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Velsharoon
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Velsharoon [b]randomness
Living alone in the middle of EVE-nowhere is not the same as living in low security with dozens of people flying through on an hourly basis.
Did that to for 2 years, as pirates we had to look out for antirats etc. Stuff is all the same no matter what side of the fence your on.
Just a thought from my perspective as we were blasting through the 0.0 pipes for an hour before local was restored:
Often people leave all sorts of ships at POS's. If theres a few POS's with ships, its difficult to tell how many of those ships you pick up on scan are actually piloted. Now... if you fall upon your prey, with local you can get a good idea of whether or not those ships are piloted. W/out local, you can't tell very easily whether or not all those ships are there to countergank you so it can make finding and deciding to attack another ship more complicated. I'm all for 0.0 local identities removed as it also makes it more challenging for the hunters.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
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Revolution Rising
Minmatar Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:03:00 -
[71]
I just set up our first small pos, during the blindness - panic was at maximum.
/signed by carebear.
RR.
CEO Venture Research and Resources. VRR Homepage |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:04:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Revolution Rising I just set up our first small pos, during the blindness - panic was at maximum.
/signed by carebear.
RR.
You just admitted to exploiting a known bug on the open forums, with moderators buzzing around with loaded bansticks. Congrats.
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Revolution Rising
Minmatar Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:10:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Revolution Rising on 20/03/2007 22:06:47 What bug? We were panicking because we couldn't see pirates.... it seemed a lot like as it should be. Read the OP. We didn't exploit anything, we were at a disadvantage had to move a pos 15 hops through 0.0 blind.
But then the forums are often plagued by idiots.
RR
CEO Venture Research and Resources. VRR Homepage |
Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:10:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Velsharoon
That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/
No matter what kind of petition you start only two questions matter to CCP. 1) How many people undocked while local was down 2) how many of those that didn't undock would quit the game if local were removed permanently. End result talk all you like, local is not going to get removed.
Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
Jovius Marginus
Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:12:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Revolution Rising I just set up our first small pos, during the blindness - panic was at maximum.
/signed by carebear.
RR.
You just admitted to exploiting a known bug on the open forums, with moderators buzzing around with loaded bansticks. Congrats.
a)Post with your main nub. b)He would have been at a disadvantage if anything. All he was saying is the risk made things more fun.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE The Foundation.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:17:00 -
[76]
I promise I make a second account if they remove local. And if they throw teh code away to never come back I get a third one!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:18:00 -
[77]
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Originally by: Velsharoon
That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/
Not blob? If anything it will encourage blobbing. People will move only in gangs because solo flying will be suicide.
I don't see how flying solo is any more dangerous with local than without.
With Local: You're flying solo and no one is in local. You jump into the next system. You're in a bubble camp. You A) Power back to the gate to jump if you can, or B) power away if you're fast and warp off, C) cloak and move out of the bubble if you're in a cov ops, or D) you die. If this person died, its because they didn't have a scout moving through 0.0. They had local as a tool, but it didn't help them when jumping into a camp. Perhaps if he jumped into system on the opposite gate of the gate camp, he would have noticed them in local and gone to a tac to scan the gate.
Without Local: You're flying solo and you have no idea if anyone is in local. Fortunately, you've got your trusty scanner and nothing shows up on local. To be on the smart side, instead of warping to a gate that isn't in scan range, you warp to a tac off of that gate to scan the gate before moving through. Its clear, so you jump into the next system. You're in a bubble camp. Same options as the "With Local" example, same results as "With Local" example. Same reasons why this person dies as the person in the "With Local" example.
The only thing I can think of off the top of my head you could do is sit cloaked near a gate with a dictor as the scout comes through. He sees nothing on scan and local is hidden, so the larger ship comes through and gets trapped in a bubble but thats about it. Even so, most gangs I've seen don't use dictors anyway.
IMO, just because you're smart in 0.0, that shouldn't mean you can always get away.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
JoCool
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:20:00 -
[78]
/signed
Remove people from local. Let them appear for 5 minutes if they talk. Eve feels more like Eve. Busy systems dont need all people to load all players to local.
Additionally: Remove the ability of probes to see empty ships in a bubble - or give it a switch. _______________________________________________________________________ Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:21:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Jovius Marginus
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Revolution Rising I just set up our first small pos, during the blindness - panic was at maximum.
/signed by carebear.
RR.
You just admitted to exploiting a known bug on the open forums, with moderators buzzing around with loaded bansticks. Congrats.
a)Post with your main nub. b)He would have been at a disadvantage if anything. All he was saying is the risk made things more fun.
This is my main; ffs, everytime I post something, some twinky comes out of nowhere accusing me of avoiding consequences. Pfft. To the second point, he invaded "occupied" 0.0 space, and the resident alliance/corp did not see their infiltration due to the shutdown of their main recon tool. They avoided the consequences of the deployment by using a bug that they knew about to gain the advantage.
Exploit. to. the. letter.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:29:00 -
[80]
Dumb, dumb, dumb idea. Mineral prices would rise, ship prices would rise, markets would get even more hubbish, Empire crowding would get worse, blobbing would get worse, Alliance defense would be crippled, LowSec would get even more retarded, and the ONLY ones to benefit would be Prats.
Sooooo, in short, idiotic idea.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:31:00 -
[81]
I just typed this in a near duplicate thread, so I'll copy paste it:
OK:
Miners in a belt, mining. Pirate jumps into system. Pirate clicks "scan", and warps around a bit, until he's covered every belt (shouldn't take more than 5 scans or so, even for big systems). He spots miner. He narrows down the location. He jumps in, and engages.
On the flip side:
Miners in a belt, mining. Pirate jumps in.....but how does the miner know? He doesn't, obviously. So whats he supposed to do? Sit there with the scanner open on 360 mode clicking "scan" every 5 seconds the entire time he's there?
The fact is, the current "click to scan" method favours the attacker over the defender, because the attacker only has to scan once (when he enters system) while the defender has to scan continually. Thats clearly not doable (I don't know any miners who'd like to add an extra button they have to push, several thousand times, every hour, coming up with nothing 99.9% of the time).
So, as soon as the scanning system has been revised in order to give equal benefit to both attacker and defender, then we can take local away. --------
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:34:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden To the second point, he invaded "occupied" 0.0 space, and the resident alliance/corp did not see their infiltration due to the shutdown of their main recon tool. They avoided the consequences of the deployment by using a bug that they knew about to gain the advantage.
Exploit. to. the. letter.
Thats not a very convincing argument when all the facts aren't known about his situation. You accuse him of invading "occupied" 0.0 due to hidden local but he never said he put it up in enemy claimed space. He said he was panicking because he couldn't see pirates. In that context, how do you know his alliance didn't lay claim to the space that he put his pos up in? How do you know he's not NAP'd with the people occupying that territory and has "permission" to put up the pos? Territory is very hard to "control" so pirates or roaming gangs can come and go as they please. We go roaming through FLA/D2/IRON/other north guys' space all the time. I don't have all the facts of his situation either, but I can guess that he wasn't worried about the local people when putting up his pos, but about the roaming "pirates" which were even harder to detect with local gone. From that perspective, the pirates have the advantage with hidden local and not him, but I'm not about to accuse him of clever exploits having so little information about his situation.
P.S. down with 0.0 local
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Revolution Rising
Minmatar Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:38:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Revolution Rising on 20/03/2007 22:34:58
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Jovius Marginus
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Revolution Rising I just set up our first small pos, during the blindness - panic was at maximum.
/signed by carebear.
RR.
You just admitted to exploiting a known bug on the open forums, with moderators buzzing around with loaded bansticks. Congrats.
a)Post with your main nub. b)He would have been at a disadvantage if anything. All he was saying is the risk made things more fun.
This is my main; ffs, everytime I post something, some twinky comes out of nowhere accusing me of avoiding consequences. Pfft. To the second point, he invaded "occupied" 0.0 space, and the resident alliance/corp did not see their infiltration due to the shutdown of their main recon tool. They avoided the consequences of the deployment by using a bug that they knew about to gain the advantage.
Exploit. to. the. letter.
You're an idiot. It's our space. There was no infiltration, the resident alliance was our alliance (we're just joining).
And now you are an ass, for being so so wrong. And I am an ass for pointing out how wrong you are.
Don't assume.
Just stop while you're behind.
RR
CEO Venture Research and Resources. VRR Homepage |
Vitelius
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:48:00 -
[84]
Seems that most carebears are (naturally) against the idea of removing local. But it could be at least changed so that is only shows the number in local for example, not the people - shows only the people that talk. Even that would be a good step forward.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:49:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Sever Aldaria
Originally by: Derovius Vaden To the second point, he invaded "occupied" 0.0 space, and the resident alliance/corp did not see their infiltration due to the shutdown of their main recon tool. They avoided the consequences of the deployment by using a bug that they knew about to gain the advantage.
Exploit. to. the. letter.
Thats not a very convincing argument when all the facts aren't known about his situation. You accuse him of invading "occupied" 0.0 due to hidden local but he never said he put it up in enemy claimed space. He said he was panicking because he couldn't see pirates. In that context, how do you know his alliance didn't lay claim to the space that he put his pos up in? How do you know he's not NAP'd with the people occupying that territory and has "permission" to put up the pos? Territory is very hard to "control" so pirates or roaming gangs can come and go as they please. We go roaming through FLA/D2/IRON/other north guys' space all the time. I don't have all the facts of his situation either, but I can guess that he wasn't worried about the local people when putting up his pos, but about the roaming "pirates" which were even harder to detect with local gone. From that perspective, the pirates have the advantage with hidden local and not him, but I'm not about to accuse him of clever exploits having so little information about his situation.
P.S. down with 0.0 local
Call me crazy, but I don't get "panicked" about not seeing pirates, the general "oh sh**'s" start when I check security status and someone named "Gankzilla" with -10.0 status and a bio that reads like gang scrawl jumps into my system.
Maybe he is just a squirrelly guy, who knows.
Quote: You're an idiot. It's our space. There was no infiltration, the resident alliance was our alliance (we're just joining).
And now you are an ass, for being so so wrong. And I am an ass for pointing out how wrong you are.
Don't assume.
Just stop while you're behind.
RR
So you deployed in "your" space when you knew that pirates couldn't find you. No matter how you hash it, you exploited a broken system to your own ends, and I hope CCP READS THIS THREAD. Of course this will probably not happen, but it is fun to shame you into acting out.
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FeralShadow
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:51:00 -
[86]
I agree with no local 100%, only if the hunted ships get a message saying "Warning: Unknown ship scanner detected!" on those being scanned down. This will be the best of both worlds, as it gives the hunters the element of surprise that they need without local, and it also gives the hunted a chance to get away if the hunters aren't fast enough. I think that would be perfectly balanced. _______________________________________________
"If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
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Bangoura
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:59:00 -
[87]
Remove local
Remove static belts
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X3vious
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:01:00 -
[88]
Remove local, only when there are tools to counter pirates.
The current methods are not satisfactory. As a poster noted, the current scanning tools favour the hunter. Things need to be evened out.
As it stands today, Local should remain. A lot of people will quit Eve as a result, and the entire game will suffer. No body wants that. Pirates and grievers will loose targets, for starters, and they'll get into their usual whining routine about 'bears ruining Eve for them, due to everyone not playing their style of game.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Darwin With Attitude
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:06:00 -
[89]
best. feature. ever.
oh wait .. it's a bug. ___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Masheine
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:09:00 -
[90]
Originally by: X3vious Remove local, only when there are tools to counter pirates.
What tools would like in addition to guns, missiles, drones, shields, armor, ecm, cloaks, and corp mates?
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