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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:14:00 -
[1]
That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/
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monkeyking1
Naughty 40 Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:17:00 -
[2]
Agreed
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Altai Saker
Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:19:00 -
[3]
omg sign sign sign http://www.omniscient-order.com/
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Kehra
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:19:00 -
[4]
Its still broken for me
tried relog and restart. Dont especially mind local as such, its the other channels I'd like to see the members.
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Serendipity007
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:19:00 -
[5]
/signed
we have a snowballs chance in hell of it happening though... ___________________________________________________ "I'm an engineer, not a miracle worker!" - Scotty, Star Trek: TOS
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joefishy
S.A.S Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:19:00 -
[6]
or, force people to have even more cov ops alts watching gates etc and seeing whats coming....
but hey thatd bring ccp more revenue ************************************************************************
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Chode Rizoum
Minmatar Temptation inc. Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:20:00 -
[7]
SIGNED!
TEMPTATION INC. Killboard |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:20:00 -
[8]
/me signs
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Nero Scuro
Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:23:00 -
[9]
Signed in triplicate and mailed to CCP using a giant cannon.
Make it happen! ___
Nice one CCP |
batloard
Amarr The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:23:00 -
[10]
would love the idea
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Mista Sexamalicious
Sexa Inc
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:23:00 -
[11]
Whatcha mean? When I maximize local all I see is text if it's entered and a local count, of which I can't seem to get rid of.
And I have to say I like it tbh.
Oh wait thats just me. I seem to have clicked the hide member list. SEXEH!
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Liu Kaskakka
PAK
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:24:00 -
[12]
Yes plz, make u appear in local in low sec and 0.0 only if u make noise.
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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Neal Cassady
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:25:00 -
[13]
agreed
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Shania Eria
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:25:00 -
[14]
/ signed on all 4 of my accounts
Originally by: Ealiom
Oh yeah and trust me on this you will feel like a complete muppet after youve killed your millionth murloc in a search for 20 pairs of there balls.
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Visionsz
Caldari S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:28:00 -
[15]
/Signed
Still not working for me and it's bloody great :)
We are recruiting! |
Choobakka
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Velsharoon
That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/
That will only make blobs more popular. Hitters won't even need to jump in to the bait being able to just stay in system. |
Wild Rho
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:33:00 -
[17]
Damn right, I actually felt a thrill moving through low sec and 0.0 for the first time in years not knowing if the others counted in the local channel were threats or not.
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Miyau
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:34:00 -
[18]
/signed
0.0 is much more fun when you have to recon |
gone fishing
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:35:00 -
[19]
Nothing new to a blind man playing eve Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Hango ([email protected]) |
Choran
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:37:00 -
[20]
/signed
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Linerra Tedora
Amarr The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:39:00 -
[21]
i love it.. even though it's a bug...
ccp... let us keep local that way.. but fix the other channels...
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:39:00 -
[22]
/Signed
Its more dangerous for ratters ect. but its also more dangerous for gangs as you can run into a fleet twice your size w/out much warning. Actually gives a meaning to having good recon intel and makes pvp more exciting and real.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Vitelius
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:39:00 -
[23]
/signed
Intel is king and 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous.
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Christina Bamar
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:40:00 -
[24]
/signed big time
Even if they just made it so that local only updates when you refresh it.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:41:00 -
[25]
/signed
"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Member of the [UTSFAH] corp.
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chrisreeves
Gallente Asgard Protectorate Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:42:00 -
[26]
Edited by: chrisreeves on 20/03/2007 20:40:42 Edited by: chrisreeves on 20/03/2007 20:38:27
Originally by: Miyau /signed
0.0 is much more fun when you have to recon
Well, no local would be fun IF there weren't static environments. The hunter will, in most cases have the upper hand without local. If you remove local, and leave static areas i.e. belts, etc, then all they do is go to the same places as always and kill their victims.
Reconnaissance would be more interesting if thing's were not static and there was no local. That way you would need to scan for your targets and your targets would be scanning for you.
As it stands, removing local will just enable the hunter to just about always catch his prey, giving him the upper hand.
The only thing's that should be static are the stargates so camping would still be effective. Non-static environments would add such a deep level of immersion but would need to be balanced so as not to alienate newcomers.
*Edit* In addition to the "intel" part of local, you would be effectively removing the social aspect from Eve. People have very nice convos in local and those only start because of funny comments in local or questions, etc. Without local, you remove an aspect of the game that many people enjoy.
So, in conclusion not signed. Leave local in.
-----------------
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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Christina Bamar /signed big time
Even if they just made it so that local only updates when you refresh it.
Ever been in a pirate camp, or even on your 0.0 ops, your told to scan non stop by fc (take it in turns if needed)
Teamwork, drama, excitment, the tears of carebears, this will have it all!
They want to populate 0.0, well people wont blob as theres only so many people u can have in a system. Instead Small gangs of npcers will have to move out, watch local and generally become better players. Woo!
But all this makes to much sense so wont happen.
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Kasak Black
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:45:00 -
[28]
Signed.
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DiuxDium
Loot Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: monkeyking1 Agreed
Quote: Also, he didnt even have a Scrambler, so the POS would have gotten away anyway. |
Pa1nbringr
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:48:00 -
[30]
Velsh I am going to come and dominate your face. -
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Kasak Black
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:48:00 -
[31]
Actually on second thought, I'd personally like to see no Local only if Alliances can do more to control borders.
Player deployable sentry turrets or something. Could be interesting. No local would faveour the hunter much more as it stands. My two ISK's
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:49:00 -
[32]
Signed. And Oveur did promise this to be implemented in some form by the end of Revelations deployment. ...
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:49:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Velsharoon
Originally by: Christina Bamar /signed big time
Even if they just made it so that local only updates when you refresh it.
Ever been in a pirate camp, or even on your 0.0 ops, your told to scan non stop by fc (take it in turns if needed)
As we speak m8. Keeps ya on your toes.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:49:00 -
[34]
How about no; if you pirates want to be anti-social shut ins that hide in big expanses of empty space, all the power to you. But stay out of my business.
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DiuxDium
Loot Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden How about no; if you pirates want to be anti-social shut ins that hide in big expanses of empty space, all the power to you. But stay out of my business.
Quote: Also, he didnt even have a Scrambler, so the POS would have gotten away anyway. |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:57:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden How about no; if you pirates want to be anti-social shut ins that hide in big expanses of empty space, all the power to you. But stay out of my business.
Yes I do, I want to pop out of nowhere, murder some poor sods and retreat back to the shadows unseen, just as the 'wildlands' should be...
Down with local! ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
boiled sprouts
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:58:00 -
[37]
No local in 0.0 /signed
What's a sig????????
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Siepie
Paradox v2.0 Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:59:00 -
[38]
/signed
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X3vious
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:01:00 -
[39]
Bring back local.
As the pirates argue - risk vs reward:
There is little risk vs the reward when local is removed.
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eXtas
Kemono. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:04:00 -
[40]
/signed
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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Pa1nbringr Velsh I am going to come and dominate your face.
Cos i rock your world?
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:06:00 -
[42]
Originally by: X3vious Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 20:58:07 Bring back local.
As the pirates argue - risk vs reward:
There is little risk when local is removed.
"Yaarrr a target for me today..." ... "...Oh bugger, where did that fleet come from?..."
Hunter becomes the hunted, not having local only penalises the lazy/stupid. ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
X3vious
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:08:00 -
[43]
Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 21:05:17 Your scenario is unlikely to happen, especially in roid belts.
Local makes hunters less lazy, they have to be more inventive. We've seen how lazy the pirates / grievers are - i.e., gate camps.
* there are very few genuine pirates, most are grievers
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: X3vious Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 20:58:07 Bring back local.
As the pirates argue - risk vs reward:
There is little risk when local is removed.
"Yaarrr a target for me today..." ... "...Oh bugger, where did that fleet come from?..."
Hunter becomes the hunted, not having local only penalises the lazy/stupid.
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MrDisposable
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:10:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: X3vious Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 20:58:07 Bring back local.
As the pirates argue - risk vs reward:
There is little risk when local is removed.
"Yaarrr a target for me today..." ... "...Oh bugger, where did that fleet come from?..."
Hunter becomes the hunted, not having local only penalises the lazy/stupid.
A fleet waiting to jump on one or two pirates at a belt.... suuuuuure. They would just gatecamp. ______________ BoB Alts
"This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!"
"Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve." |
X3vious
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:11:00 -
[45]
Local should be fixed ASAP. Balance out the game.
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Roue
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:12:00 -
[46]
Signed.
It affects both sides. Intelligence and planning are still the victor and in this case you can finally plan ambushes, and have hidden fleets. For both killing and killing killers and killing killers who intend to kill killers.
It just opens up a whole new dimension. And plus for those trying to evade being killed. Scouts still are important and now the enemy may not even know you're moving through system, 90% of piracy is about knowing whether or not to bother in a system and local gives that up quick. This is my opinion not that of privateer corp, alliance, its member corps, affiliates, minions, pet animals, ex girlfriends, former roommates, 3rd grade gym teachers, late relatives, ontime relatives, |
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:13:00 -
[47]
Guys! No Local! Somehow this will absolutely prevent blobs except...OH WAIT! Finding anyone will be impossible, there's no way to recon them really, and so ALL combat will happen in station systems and at POS's...and OH SNAP! That's right, they're pretty much the reason we have blobs now!
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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:17:00 -
[48]
Originally by: James Duar Guys! No Local! Somehow this will absolutely prevent blobs except...OH WAIT! Finding anyone will be impossible, there's no way to recon them really, and so ALL combat will happen in station systems and at POS's...and OH SNAP! That's right, they're pretty much the reason we have blobs now!
your obviously not very good at eve then, or havent read what i said
1) I suggested leaving in numbers in local. (and others have said make it an active scan thing, i approve)
2) Instead of blobbing up I view it as repopulating those empty low sec systems, Want to be safe sod off with a couple of trusted homies, work hard as a team in your own wee system, **** the outpost with 90 people all trying to bear in 5 belts.
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eXtas
Kemono. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:18:00 -
[49]
Originally by: James Duar Guys! No Local! Somehow this will absolutely prevent blobs except...OH WAIT! Finding anyone will be impossible, there's no way to recon them really, and so ALL combat will happen in station systems and at POS's...and OH SNAP! That's right, they're pretty much the reason we have blobs now!
nah u can still se from map how many are in systems, and a quick scan will tell u what is there :) tho in empire it was kinda strange to not know if the 100ppl were hostile or not
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Jovius Marginus
Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:20:00 -
[50]
Signedx10
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:22:00 -
[51]
That was fun. Let's do it.
From Teonusude local earlier: [ 2007.03.20 19:04:02 ] Smagd > All war targets please say "Yarr!". [ 2007.03.20 19:04:20 ] Smagd > None? Good. [ 2007.03.20 19:04:24 ] Tassi > Can I say "arrr" instead?
(Damn almost missed one!)
Family Tahar, of Clan Hadar, of Caravan of Namtz'Aar K'in |
Zae'dra Xanthe
Fist of the Goat
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:23:00 -
[52]
Make it an "active" scanner and *skill based*. That way you can increase your chances of finding someone and vise verse, avoiding someone. Make Omni scans limited to half the distance of directional scans.
Now covert ops ships have an actual chance at surprising a target. Local chat ruins any chance of a true ambush.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:23:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Derovius Vaden How about no; if you pirates want to be anti-social shut ins that hide in big expanses of empty space, all the power to you. But stay out of my business.
Yes I do, I want to pop out of nowhere, murder some poor sods and retreat back to the shadows unseen, just as the 'wildlands' should be...
Down with local!
And you're the first ninny back in here crying about not having anyone to play with in low security. You want more people to shoot? Make them feel safe, not exposed; stop shooting yourself in the foot and calling it an improvement.
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Manfred Doomhammer
Caldari ShadowTec Inc. Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:28:00 -
[54]
/signed
felt like it should, having people scanning the system for hostiles instead of just glancing at local while we knocked out the tower....
more of this please !! ----
Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Morfane
The IMorral MAjority Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:30:00 -
[55]
Originally by: X3vious Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 21:05:17 Your scenario is unlikely to happen, especially in roid belts.
Local makes hunters less lazy, they have to be more inventive. We've seen how lazy the pirates / grievers are - i.e., gate camps.
* there are very few genuine pirates, most are grievers
Pirates don't choose to camp gates because they are lazy. They do it because that is near the best isk/hour piracy there is. Killing belt ratters and miners, while fun, makes about the same as doing lvl 1 missions over time. You can make more camping gates than doing lvl 4's.
Also, while I am not one to complain about english, a have a problem with the word 'griever'. I think you mean 'griefer'. A griever would be someone who is grieving, as in, they are experiencing grief. A griefer is one who enjoys ruining the gaming experience for others.
Back on track:
/SIGNED
With beer even.
All I have to add is that showing the number in local will still allow 0.0 (and remote low sec) miners/ratters to simply log/run when local goes up, regardless of who it is. I am much more in favour of a passive scan, with different sensor ranges and strengths for different ships, and all the tactical beauty that would provide.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:33:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Soporo on 20/03/2007 21:32:54 Naw, it's hard enough as is catching and nailing someone down. Only ones who would benefit from it would be the healthy prat welfare program. It would also be a direct HUGE nerf to mining, isnt it enough that miners and industrials are paper thin, slow as hell and maneuver like crippled oxen? It would also be a HUGE nerf to LowSec buisness/population, and if you cant figure that one out, too bad.
No Local would cause an even larger rash of alts, and make it extremely difficult for Alliances to defend. Like I said, the only ones to benefit would be prats, so screw that.
Quote: would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode
Oh, and if CCP started to FORCE you into my playstyle?I can hear the wails now...
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:33:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Velsharoon
Originally by: James Duar Guys! No Local! Somehow this will absolutely prevent blobs except...OH WAIT! Finding anyone will be impossible, there's no way to recon them really, and so ALL combat will happen in station systems and at POS's...and OH SNAP! That's right, they're pretty much the reason we have blobs now!
your obviously not very good at eve then, or havent read what i said
1) I suggested leaving in numbers in local. (and others have said make it an active scan thing, i approve)
I read what you said. It is as flawed as any other of these ideas. The practical side-effect is that no one will rat in any system that isn't empty. Mining in 0.0 will be more screwed then it normally is since any semblance of border control is now completely impossible. AFK'ing recons get even more disruptive.
Originally by: Velsharoon 2) Instead of blobbing up I view it as repopulating those empty low sec systems, Want to be safe sod off with a couple of trusted homies, work hard as a team in your own wee system, **** the outpost with 90 people all trying to bear in 5 belts.
First of all, guys, the word filters are off I just realized
But more seriously, this will repopulate jack squat. You can't mine a non-station system without a POS and a carrier to move the ore around, it's hopelessly gimped in profit compared to ratting.
Secondly, the reason people try to solo things in the first place is that we all have lives outside of EVE that we'd like to lead as well. Somehow, despite being able to own territory though, it's actually nigh on impossible to keep people out of it.
Thirdly: you haven't addressed the point about blobs, which is that counter-blobs will never exist, and all combat will move to the biggest thing these two entities want to attack - POS in station systems.
And finally: playing EVE this way would be a pain in the ass filled with surprise death, and one way or another everyone does something to make money to PVP. Turning that into a painful exercise with surprise gank squads seems about the most unfun thing you could do. Making small gang PVP so it's even harder to find targets (except hitting miners, not you know, attacking any counter-gangs etc. which will be nigh on impossible) seems equally unfun and reducing warfare to "OH GOD GUYS THEY'RE AT OUR STATION GET OVER HERE" rushing around in blobs because you can't actually recon an enemy blob on the move seems equally unfun.
And I'm sure most of this will be replied to with the witty "just put a scout on the gates" answer which everyone loves and I doubt anyone has ever done for 23 hours straight as would be needed if this happened.
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Dregann
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:38:00 -
[58]
/Signed I liked the suggestion for 'Constellation' chat to be main in 0.0 instead of local
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Masheine
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:45:00 -
[59]
/signed
Originally by: James Duar The practical side-effect is that no one will rat in any system that isn't empty.
You won't know whether it's empty or not when there's no number (the right way to do no local).
Originally by: James Duar AFK'ing recons get even more disruptive.
How? You'll never know it's there.
Just like that recon pilot won't know (when he comes back from AFK and scans you down to the belt you're mining in) whether it's just you in system, or you with twenty of you buddies ready to tear him a new one.
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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:45:00 -
[60]
james, I live in 0.0, I pvp non stop. We all have the same tools available to us, and so howcome we can manage not to be ganked etc yet you people cant?
Today was hard for us to, 1 mega and 1 inty vs 3 intys omen and some other ships, but through decent piloting and 1337 skillz things were ok.
The local bears were actually active and usin brains, instead of being quite frankly muppets and just glancing at local
I reject your argumentsm but fact is neither of us has evidence either way what will happen, just predict. and I predict the opposite.
Either way...it just feels right for most people posting here. This is eve as it should be.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:47:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Velsharoon james, I live in 0.0, I pvp non stop. We all have the same tools available to us, and so howcome we can manage not to be ganked etc yet you people cant?
Today was hard for us to, 1 mega and 1 inty vs 3 intys omen and some other ships, but through decent piloting and 1337 skillz things were ok.
The local bears were actually active and usin brains, instead of being quite frankly muppets and just glancing at local
I reject your argumentsm but fact is neither of us has evidence either way what will happen, just predict. and I predict the opposite.
Either way...it just feels right for most people posting here. This is eve as it should be.
Living alone in the middle of EVE-nowhere is not the same as living in low security with dozens of people flying through on an hourly basis.
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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:50:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Velsharoon [b]randomness
Living alone in the middle of EVE-nowhere is not the same as living in low security with dozens of people flying through on an hourly basis.
Did that to for 2 years, as pirates we had to look out for antirats etc. Stuff is all the same no matter what side of the fence your on.
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:51:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Masheine
Originally by: James Duar AFK'ing recons get even more disruptive.
How? You'll never know it's there.
I thought the whole reason AFK recons are disruptive is because of local.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:52:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Velsharoon
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Velsharoon [b]randomness
Living alone in the middle of EVE-nowhere is not the same as living in low security with dozens of people flying through on an hourly basis.
Did that to for 2 years, as pirates we had to look out for antirats etc. Stuff is all the same no matter what side of the fence your on.
You obviously stopped for a reason, and I doubt that reason was because CCP stopped leaving milk and cookies for you at the nearest station.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:53:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Derovius Vaden How about no; if you pirates want to be anti-social shut ins that hide in big expanses of empty space, all the power to you. But stay out of my business.
Yes I do, I want to pop out of nowhere, murder some poor sods and retreat back to the shadows unseen, just as the 'wildlands' should be...
Down with local!
And you're the first ninny back in here crying about not having anyone to play with in low security. You want more people to shoot? Make them feel safe, not exposed; stop shooting yourself in the foot and calling it an improvement.
I don't even operate in low sec, I live purely in 0.0, ergo a +5 security status...
No local is a double edged sword, and something 0.0 really needs in my opinion... ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Joe Papa
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:53:00 -
[66]
(this is off topic but . . . I thought we already have constelation chat, no one uses it because no one knows about it. That or . . . my computer is royally screwed, and high on something I want)
No local would be a bad idea, currently. However, if CCP saw fit to make it easier to scan out where people are/scan for cloacked ships, getting rid of Local might be more interesting. Having warp signartures seems like a bad idea, unless they fade in like 3-5 minutes (maybe faster with skills?). People warp alot, and those warp signatures would just clog up your scan.
From an RP perspective, though, having local makes sense, it's just a comms channel you're automatically entered into as soon as you jump into a system. The pod pilots are hooked up to some kind of sensor system on the star gates that notifies them when someone new jumps into the system through the gates. It makes sense to keep this function for Empire, as it would be the Empires running this "Local" Channel Service, and probably even for NPC Sov nullsec systems, as the NPC's are running the service (to keep tabs on capsuleers in the system). If allainces could choose to run this function or not in systems they had Sov, would be interesting, as that means that all none sov systems (and some controlled by players) would not have a decent "Local" channel as no one is there to run the gates properly.
Just my two pence, and crazy/wortheless as usual
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Redpants
Gallente Dead Eagle North Star Confederation
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:53:00 -
[67]
I liked it while it lasted. I think that having local numbers is a good thing like your ship detects x number of ship signatures but you have to actually scan to see where or who they are by flying out to them and you woulnd't see them show in local unless they spoke is cool by me, or get rid of it. Either or. This is for 0.0 not low or high sec. _____________________________________________________________________ "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red." |
ArchenTheGreat
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:53:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Velsharoon
That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/
Not blob? If anything it will encourage blobbing. People will move only in gangs because solo flying will be suicide.
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Korizan
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:58:00 -
[69]
After looking at this I believe this would work.
0.0 Only leave high sec alone it is controlled space. 0.0 is unregulated so nobody around to report who is in it.
1. Lose the numbers in system count. (In for the penny in for the pound) 2. Show Corp / Alliance members only in local (You are a team so seeing each other is no surprise) 3. Lose the constellation chat 4. Maybe allow people is they have a + standing to be seen in local same premise as above. 5. you talk in local you show up period (to reset simply zone)
Now you are saying that means the pirates and hostiles are hidden. Well you are hidden to them as well. Can you say watch the gate with a cloaker. This would put probes back in the game BIG TIME. You jump into system drop a large range probe see what is there and decide.
Situations. I want to gank some miners in the belts. Jump in with 4 friends. I can either start jumping around the belts blindly hoping someone is there. or I can drop a probe. If you blindly jump around you might run into miners or a ratting group that just may turn around and kill you. Or you could have ran into a blob just sitting at a SS you would not know without scanning.
This will help both the hunter and the hunted. It would make 0.0 safer in some ways and more dangerous in others a nice balance.
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:00:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Velsharoon
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Velsharoon [b]randomness
Living alone in the middle of EVE-nowhere is not the same as living in low security with dozens of people flying through on an hourly basis.
Did that to for 2 years, as pirates we had to look out for antirats etc. Stuff is all the same no matter what side of the fence your on.
Just a thought from my perspective as we were blasting through the 0.0 pipes for an hour before local was restored:
Often people leave all sorts of ships at POS's. If theres a few POS's with ships, its difficult to tell how many of those ships you pick up on scan are actually piloted. Now... if you fall upon your prey, with local you can get a good idea of whether or not those ships are piloted. W/out local, you can't tell very easily whether or not all those ships are there to countergank you so it can make finding and deciding to attack another ship more complicated. I'm all for 0.0 local identities removed as it also makes it more challenging for the hunters.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
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Revolution Rising
Minmatar Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:03:00 -
[71]
I just set up our first small pos, during the blindness - panic was at maximum.
/signed by carebear.
RR.
CEO Venture Research and Resources. VRR Homepage |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:04:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Revolution Rising I just set up our first small pos, during the blindness - panic was at maximum.
/signed by carebear.
RR.
You just admitted to exploiting a known bug on the open forums, with moderators buzzing around with loaded bansticks. Congrats.
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Revolution Rising
Minmatar Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:10:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Revolution Rising on 20/03/2007 22:06:47 What bug? We were panicking because we couldn't see pirates.... it seemed a lot like as it should be. Read the OP. We didn't exploit anything, we were at a disadvantage had to move a pos 15 hops through 0.0 blind.
But then the forums are often plagued by idiots.
RR
CEO Venture Research and Resources. VRR Homepage |
Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:10:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Velsharoon
That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/
No matter what kind of petition you start only two questions matter to CCP. 1) How many people undocked while local was down 2) how many of those that didn't undock would quit the game if local were removed permanently. End result talk all you like, local is not going to get removed.
Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
Jovius Marginus
Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:12:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Revolution Rising I just set up our first small pos, during the blindness - panic was at maximum.
/signed by carebear.
RR.
You just admitted to exploiting a known bug on the open forums, with moderators buzzing around with loaded bansticks. Congrats.
a)Post with your main nub. b)He would have been at a disadvantage if anything. All he was saying is the risk made things more fun.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE The Foundation.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:17:00 -
[76]
I promise I make a second account if they remove local. And if they throw teh code away to never come back I get a third one!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:18:00 -
[77]
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Originally by: Velsharoon
That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/
Not blob? If anything it will encourage blobbing. People will move only in gangs because solo flying will be suicide.
I don't see how flying solo is any more dangerous with local than without.
With Local: You're flying solo and no one is in local. You jump into the next system. You're in a bubble camp. You A) Power back to the gate to jump if you can, or B) power away if you're fast and warp off, C) cloak and move out of the bubble if you're in a cov ops, or D) you die. If this person died, its because they didn't have a scout moving through 0.0. They had local as a tool, but it didn't help them when jumping into a camp. Perhaps if he jumped into system on the opposite gate of the gate camp, he would have noticed them in local and gone to a tac to scan the gate.
Without Local: You're flying solo and you have no idea if anyone is in local. Fortunately, you've got your trusty scanner and nothing shows up on local. To be on the smart side, instead of warping to a gate that isn't in scan range, you warp to a tac off of that gate to scan the gate before moving through. Its clear, so you jump into the next system. You're in a bubble camp. Same options as the "With Local" example, same results as "With Local" example. Same reasons why this person dies as the person in the "With Local" example.
The only thing I can think of off the top of my head you could do is sit cloaked near a gate with a dictor as the scout comes through. He sees nothing on scan and local is hidden, so the larger ship comes through and gets trapped in a bubble but thats about it. Even so, most gangs I've seen don't use dictors anyway.
IMO, just because you're smart in 0.0, that shouldn't mean you can always get away.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
JoCool
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:20:00 -
[78]
/signed
Remove people from local. Let them appear for 5 minutes if they talk. Eve feels more like Eve. Busy systems dont need all people to load all players to local.
Additionally: Remove the ability of probes to see empty ships in a bubble - or give it a switch. _______________________________________________________________________ Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:21:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Jovius Marginus
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Revolution Rising I just set up our first small pos, during the blindness - panic was at maximum.
/signed by carebear.
RR.
You just admitted to exploiting a known bug on the open forums, with moderators buzzing around with loaded bansticks. Congrats.
a)Post with your main nub. b)He would have been at a disadvantage if anything. All he was saying is the risk made things more fun.
This is my main; ffs, everytime I post something, some twinky comes out of nowhere accusing me of avoiding consequences. Pfft. To the second point, he invaded "occupied" 0.0 space, and the resident alliance/corp did not see their infiltration due to the shutdown of their main recon tool. They avoided the consequences of the deployment by using a bug that they knew about to gain the advantage.
Exploit. to. the. letter.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:29:00 -
[80]
Dumb, dumb, dumb idea. Mineral prices would rise, ship prices would rise, markets would get even more hubbish, Empire crowding would get worse, blobbing would get worse, Alliance defense would be crippled, LowSec would get even more retarded, and the ONLY ones to benefit would be Prats.
Sooooo, in short, idiotic idea.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:31:00 -
[81]
I just typed this in a near duplicate thread, so I'll copy paste it:
OK:
Miners in a belt, mining. Pirate jumps into system. Pirate clicks "scan", and warps around a bit, until he's covered every belt (shouldn't take more than 5 scans or so, even for big systems). He spots miner. He narrows down the location. He jumps in, and engages.
On the flip side:
Miners in a belt, mining. Pirate jumps in.....but how does the miner know? He doesn't, obviously. So whats he supposed to do? Sit there with the scanner open on 360 mode clicking "scan" every 5 seconds the entire time he's there?
The fact is, the current "click to scan" method favours the attacker over the defender, because the attacker only has to scan once (when he enters system) while the defender has to scan continually. Thats clearly not doable (I don't know any miners who'd like to add an extra button they have to push, several thousand times, every hour, coming up with nothing 99.9% of the time).
So, as soon as the scanning system has been revised in order to give equal benefit to both attacker and defender, then we can take local away. --------
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:34:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden To the second point, he invaded "occupied" 0.0 space, and the resident alliance/corp did not see their infiltration due to the shutdown of their main recon tool. They avoided the consequences of the deployment by using a bug that they knew about to gain the advantage.
Exploit. to. the. letter.
Thats not a very convincing argument when all the facts aren't known about his situation. You accuse him of invading "occupied" 0.0 due to hidden local but he never said he put it up in enemy claimed space. He said he was panicking because he couldn't see pirates. In that context, how do you know his alliance didn't lay claim to the space that he put his pos up in? How do you know he's not NAP'd with the people occupying that territory and has "permission" to put up the pos? Territory is very hard to "control" so pirates or roaming gangs can come and go as they please. We go roaming through FLA/D2/IRON/other north guys' space all the time. I don't have all the facts of his situation either, but I can guess that he wasn't worried about the local people when putting up his pos, but about the roaming "pirates" which were even harder to detect with local gone. From that perspective, the pirates have the advantage with hidden local and not him, but I'm not about to accuse him of clever exploits having so little information about his situation.
P.S. down with 0.0 local
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Revolution Rising
Minmatar Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:38:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Revolution Rising on 20/03/2007 22:34:58
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Jovius Marginus
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Revolution Rising I just set up our first small pos, during the blindness - panic was at maximum.
/signed by carebear.
RR.
You just admitted to exploiting a known bug on the open forums, with moderators buzzing around with loaded bansticks. Congrats.
a)Post with your main nub. b)He would have been at a disadvantage if anything. All he was saying is the risk made things more fun.
This is my main; ffs, everytime I post something, some twinky comes out of nowhere accusing me of avoiding consequences. Pfft. To the second point, he invaded "occupied" 0.0 space, and the resident alliance/corp did not see their infiltration due to the shutdown of their main recon tool. They avoided the consequences of the deployment by using a bug that they knew about to gain the advantage.
Exploit. to. the. letter.
You're an idiot. It's our space. There was no infiltration, the resident alliance was our alliance (we're just joining).
And now you are an ass, for being so so wrong. And I am an ass for pointing out how wrong you are.
Don't assume.
Just stop while you're behind.
RR
CEO Venture Research and Resources. VRR Homepage |
Vitelius
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:48:00 -
[84]
Seems that most carebears are (naturally) against the idea of removing local. But it could be at least changed so that is only shows the number in local for example, not the people - shows only the people that talk. Even that would be a good step forward.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:49:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Sever Aldaria
Originally by: Derovius Vaden To the second point, he invaded "occupied" 0.0 space, and the resident alliance/corp did not see their infiltration due to the shutdown of their main recon tool. They avoided the consequences of the deployment by using a bug that they knew about to gain the advantage.
Exploit. to. the. letter.
Thats not a very convincing argument when all the facts aren't known about his situation. You accuse him of invading "occupied" 0.0 due to hidden local but he never said he put it up in enemy claimed space. He said he was panicking because he couldn't see pirates. In that context, how do you know his alliance didn't lay claim to the space that he put his pos up in? How do you know he's not NAP'd with the people occupying that territory and has "permission" to put up the pos? Territory is very hard to "control" so pirates or roaming gangs can come and go as they please. We go roaming through FLA/D2/IRON/other north guys' space all the time. I don't have all the facts of his situation either, but I can guess that he wasn't worried about the local people when putting up his pos, but about the roaming "pirates" which were even harder to detect with local gone. From that perspective, the pirates have the advantage with hidden local and not him, but I'm not about to accuse him of clever exploits having so little information about his situation.
P.S. down with 0.0 local
Call me crazy, but I don't get "panicked" about not seeing pirates, the general "oh sh**'s" start when I check security status and someone named "Gankzilla" with -10.0 status and a bio that reads like gang scrawl jumps into my system.
Maybe he is just a squirrelly guy, who knows.
Quote: You're an idiot. It's our space. There was no infiltration, the resident alliance was our alliance (we're just joining).
And now you are an ass, for being so so wrong. And I am an ass for pointing out how wrong you are.
Don't assume.
Just stop while you're behind.
RR
So you deployed in "your" space when you knew that pirates couldn't find you. No matter how you hash it, you exploited a broken system to your own ends, and I hope CCP READS THIS THREAD. Of course this will probably not happen, but it is fun to shame you into acting out.
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FeralShadow
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:51:00 -
[86]
I agree with no local 100%, only if the hunted ships get a message saying "Warning: Unknown ship scanner detected!" on those being scanned down. This will be the best of both worlds, as it gives the hunters the element of surprise that they need without local, and it also gives the hunted a chance to get away if the hunters aren't fast enough. I think that would be perfectly balanced. _______________________________________________
"If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
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Bangoura
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:59:00 -
[87]
Remove local
Remove static belts
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X3vious
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:01:00 -
[88]
Remove local, only when there are tools to counter pirates.
The current methods are not satisfactory. As a poster noted, the current scanning tools favour the hunter. Things need to be evened out.
As it stands today, Local should remain. A lot of people will quit Eve as a result, and the entire game will suffer. No body wants that. Pirates and grievers will loose targets, for starters, and they'll get into their usual whining routine about 'bears ruining Eve for them, due to everyone not playing their style of game.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Darwin With Attitude
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:06:00 -
[89]
best. feature. ever.
oh wait .. it's a bug. ___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Masheine
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:09:00 -
[90]
Originally by: X3vious Remove local, only when there are tools to counter pirates.
What tools would like in addition to guns, missiles, drones, shields, armor, ecm, cloaks, and corp mates?
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X3vious
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:11:00 -
[91]
Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 23:07:43
Originally by: Masheine
Originally by: X3vious Remove local, only when there are tools to counter pirates.
What tools would like in addition to guns, missiles, drones, shields, armor, ecm, cloaks, and corp mates?
Well, if they were sufficient, I wouldn't be saying that extra tools were needed.
:-\
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hUssmann
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:15:00 -
[92]
Originally by: X3vious
Well, if they were sufficient, I wouldn't be saying that extra tools were needed.
:-\
I love these forums. ______________________________________
Phoenix Lonestar > Server lag was non-existant pre Dragon.
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:17:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Sever Aldaria
Originally by: Derovius Vaden To the second point, he invaded "occupied" 0.0 space, and the resident alliance/corp did not see their infiltration due to the shutdown of their main recon tool. They avoided the consequences of the deployment by using a bug that they knew about to gain the advantage.
Exploit. to. the. letter.
Thats not a very convincing argument when all the facts aren't known about his situation. You accuse him of invading "occupied" 0.0 due to hidden local but he never said he put it up in enemy claimed space. He said he was panicking because he couldn't see pirates. In that context, how do you know his alliance didn't lay claim to the space that he put his pos up in? How do you know he's not NAP'd with the people occupying that territory and has "permission" to put up the pos? Territory is very hard to "control" so pirates or roaming gangs can come and go as they please. We go roaming through FLA/D2/IRON/other north guys' space all the time. I don't have all the facts of his situation either, but I can guess that he wasn't worried about the local people when putting up his pos, but about the roaming "pirates" which were even harder to detect with local gone. From that perspective, the pirates have the advantage with hidden local and not him, but I'm not about to accuse him of clever exploits having so little information about his situation.
P.S. down with 0.0 local
Call me crazy, but I don't get "panicked" about not seeing pirates, the general "oh sh**'s" start when I check security status and someone named "Gankzilla" with -10.0 status and a bio that reads like gang scrawl jumps into my system.
Maybe he is just a squirrelly guy, who knows.
Quote: You're an idiot. It's our space. There was no infiltration, the resident alliance was our alliance (we're just joining).
And now you are an ass, for being so so wrong. And I am an ass for pointing out how wrong you are.
Don't assume.
Just stop while you're behind.
RR
So you deployed in "your" space when you knew that pirates couldn't find you. No matter how you hash it, you exploited a broken system to your own ends, and I hope CCP READS THIS THREAD. Of course this will probably not happen, but it is fun to shame you into acting out.
Ah, I was right wasn't I? I don't put up POS's but I'd imagine that having a significant investment of isk sitting there vulnerable would make anyone want to know of their surroundings.
Oh and... how exactly can "pirates" not find him? If they couldn't find him then why would he be worried in the first place? Said "pirates" wouldn't know if many or no people are in a given system, but flying around scanning would soon find said "pirates" with an easy target of a pos being setup. He exploited nothing because he had no advantages. If anything, he was at a disadvantage. We killed several battleships and a command ships this morning. Should they be punished for exploits by trying to rat in systems knowing that "pirates cannot find them"? Thats a rediculous statement you must agree but thats really what is inferred from your words.
Originally by: Masheine
Originally by: X3vious Remove local, only when there are tools to counter pirates.
What tools would like in addition to guns, missiles, drones, shields, armor, ecm, cloaks, and corp mates?
Spacial Shift Module I (cannot be used if a warp scrambler is equiped) which instantly teleports you 100km in a random direction even while warp scrambled.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Revolution Rising
Minmatar Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:23:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Revolution Rising on 20/03/2007 23:21:45
Quote: Oh and... how exactly can "pirates" not find him? If they couldn't find him then why would he be worried in the first place? Said "pirates" wouldn't know if many or no people are in a given system, but flying around scanning would soon find said "pirates" with an easy target of a pos being setup. He exploited nothing because he had no advantages. If anything, he was at a disadvantage. We killed several battleships and a command ships this morning. Should they be punished for exploits by trying to rat in systems knowing that "pirates cannot find them"? Thats a rediculous statement you must agree but thats really what is inferred from your words.
Dude, that guy is just dumb and doesn't get it. Don't waste your breath. And yeah it was a lot of fun, hit a gate with an AF on it who launched his drones before trying to scram me - i had 2 stabs anyhow - and i lost him 2 systems later because I jumped to a planet and made a safespot when I realised he was following. No trickery or "bug exploiting" was entered into by us.
Was a tonne of fun. I'm a carebear but thoroughly support this - IF there are modules for frigate class (cov-ops?) ships that allow those ships to be notified of gate activity.
Why? It means a battleship is at a slight disadvantage when it comes to intel - the lone hunter pirate ganker is going to have a hard time. It will put more frigates/cov-ops in 0.0 to do this kind of work instead of just gangs of BS's, carriers etc.. It evens out the gangs more - sure we need tacklers and then everyone takes the biggest ship they can find (if they didn't get a heavy tackler anyhow), this means you need tacklers and scanners.
RR
CEO Venture Research and Resources. VRR Homepage |
X3vious
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:30:00 -
[95]
Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 23:27:36 Anyway, Local is back, and 'Bears all over can rejoice.
BTW - I hate these forums, full of whiners "'Nerf 'Nerf"
Originally by: hUssmann
Originally by: X3vious
Well, if they were sufficient, I wouldn't be saying that extra tools were needed.
:-\
I love these forums.
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Commander BlackJack
EON Order Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:33:00 -
[96]
/signed
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:34:00 -
[97]
I'm a carebear myself, and I've been thinking about it a bit more: The largest problem I've seen mentioned so far is mining.
Even today you won't be doing much low or zero sec solo mining unless you're feeling like rolling the bloody dice (oh and I got days when I do feel like rolling the bloody dice).
You see the local count jump, you better make sure it's a friendly or you start hitting the frigging scanner, but that's just the same you'd do with a full local when an unknown enters. Even 3.5 sec people sometimes like to gank a miner.
High sec, with an active war dec - that's much the same. If local is sufficiently high, say 90 or 100, even the nice markers in the local list won't save you unless you're really watching out.
So what's left? Corp solo miners in high sec during active wars? I dunno, if you die for that you've probably deserved the grief your CEO is going to give you.
If anything, this would be making local more chatty. "Hi there. You a friendly?" That can't be an all bad thing.
Family Tahar, of Clan Hadar, of Caravan of Namtz'Aar K'in |
Vort X
EON Order Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:43:00 -
[98]
Constellation chat instead of the local, sounds like more fun. I think the devs are planning something like this if im not mistaken. Go for it CCP.
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Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:07:00 -
[99]
I have to say, i live in 0.0 since my early age and i didn not have such amazing experience as today being in 0.0 with 5 unknown pilots in same system.
Breadk the local again (and forever) Pliiz
BIG GUN BIG FUTURE |
Elmicker
Unscoped Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:16:00 -
[100]
It is a standing rule in just about every alliance going that carebearing (ratting/mining) is only allowed when no hostiles are in sight, i.e., when it is safe to do so. Removing local would make no area "safe", it'd be the ultimate AFK cloaker. No one could ever egt anything done, because it would never be safe to do so. 0.0 industry would die because no one will be getting out their shiny covetors without at least a 30 man gatecamp in a dead end (usually relatively highsec) system. This would make 0.0 more fun, for about 15 minutes, until we all run out of money due to being unable to rat or mine (well you could, if you dont mind losing a raven or covetor a day). We'd just end up back in empire, grinding lvl 4s, whinging about privateers and the lag.
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Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:17:00 -
[101]
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations? ...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
The only people left out there will be the PvPer's and their mining alts... fun.
The only way to conduct a mining op would be to form a blob in the belt since you have no warning as to enemy forces or their size your only defence is to hope to outnumber them.
Territory would become a joke unless you can camp the gates into and out of it 23/7.
Mineral, ship, mod, and ammo prices would soar beyond belief, piracy would be even less profitable than today due to a lack of soft targets and the expense of losses.
Gank squads in the dozens (and the hundreds) would harass alliance space using hit and run tactics to wipe out everything in their path while defensive fleets can only turn up five minutes too late unless they post scouts on every gate in their space 23/7.
POS would fall without warning as a cyno-ship manages to get by unopposed and unknown until the cyno opens and the capital fleet arrives.
I can't think of a single group of players who wouldn't suffer from this (except perhaps the gank squads). Even the pure PvPer would spend most of his time waiting... securing gates, securing what is left of the mining ops, trying to hunt down invaders, trying to find a system with prey, etc.
More wait, less pew pew.
It's bad mmmKay?
|
Arkani Gera
The Movement
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:17:00 -
[102]
/signed
would actually make the game a whole lot more interesting to play, everyone will have to get better organized, win-win situation...
The corp is mother, the corp is father.
The little badger that could |
Aki Yamato
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 00:29:00 -
[103]
Imust agree that removing local copletly is to hardcore, but if remains information how many pilots are in system but you dont know who is it until the write something on local (breaks radio silence) or you scan them, it would be nice compromise. Syestems would be defendable but huters will have bigger chance to arrpouch their pray.
BIG GUN BIG FUTURE |
Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition Phobos Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 00:34:00 -
[104]
as a new player to the wardec'ing thing, and a future recon pilot, I am going to need to sign this as well. Kind of...
Much like the Eve-radio channel, show how many people are in system, however, only display the people that are talking.
I felt like my poor kestrel, with no "pew-pew" skills, was actually useful today, as I was set up 0.4 AU from the gate, behind an enemy gate camp, constantly scanning them, and providing that intel to our alliance.
If there was no local, perhaps, instead of getting an order to back off and dock, our blob would have made this into a nice opportunity to kill a gate camp
PS: This is how I imagined flying a recon ship would be like, setting up behind enemy lines, and providing intel. People feel too safe when there is a local, and they let down thier guard when they do not see enemies in local.
PSS: I am also an ex-miner, and this would bug me a bit, however, it would make me do the non-AFK mining thing, which is how it should be.
My opinion is my own, not of my corp or my alliance. If you have problems, we can have a "who can do L4 missions faster" duel >:) |
Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 00:39:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations? ...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
Eh... Why not Daelin. The damn Titans probably going to lead to most of the PVPers quitting in bored frustration that PVP has been made worthless when the only way to fight a titan is 1k+ spacecraft rammed slowly into system to try and have enough left over after the regular DD blasts to have something vaguelly resembling a fight.
I really like Eve, but I genuinely believe that unless CCP pays *verry* close attention to whats griping the 0.0 crew, this game is going to be over within the year. Theres perhaps 2-3 months left of war in deep space , and thats either going to be one alliance controls all of space, game over, lets play WOW, or a perpetually hostile grind war that'll eventually devolve into more wars. CCP needs to *carefully* analyse how it wants this to pan out, because if its *impossible* for one side of this war to win at all, this game is over.
There will be plenty of room for carebears once that happens, but no customers for them to profit off.
So it'll be like .... empire and the 20 or 30 macrominers who never really did notice whats going on. yay.
|
Evenfall Phoenix
The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 00:57:00 -
[106]
Originally by: X3vious Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 20:58:07 Bring back local.
As the pirates argue - risk vs reward:
There is little risk when local is removed.
He's right. With no local pirates suffer vary little in terms of risk, while carebears or travelers risk goes through the roof. I like local as is.
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Derovius Vaden
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 00:59:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations? ...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
Eh... Why not Daelin. The damn Titans probably going to lead to most of the PVPers quitting in bored frustration that PVP has been made worthless when the only way to fight a titan is 1k+ spacecraft rammed slowly into system to try and have enough left over after the regular DD blasts to have something vaguelly resembling a fight.
I really like Eve, but I genuinely believe that unless CCP pays *verry* close attention to whats griping the 0.0 crew, this game is going to be over within the year. Theres perhaps 2-3 months left of war in deep space , and thats either going to be one alliance controls all of space, game over, lets play WOW, or a perpetually hostile grind war that'll eventually devolve into more wars. CCP needs to *carefully* analyse how it wants this to pan out, because if its *impossible* for one side of this war to win at all, this game is over.
There will be plenty of room for carebears once that happens, but no customers for them to profit off.
So it'll be like .... empire and the 20 or 30 macrominers who never really did notice whats going on. yay.
Theres a fresh bag of pampers next to the exit, help yourself on your way out if you can't handle things as they were.
|
Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 01:01:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations? ...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
Eh... Why not Daelin. The damn Titans probably going to lead to most of the PVPers quitting in bored frustration that PVP has been made worthless when the only way to fight a titan is 1k+ spacecraft rammed slowly into system to try and have enough left over after the regular DD blasts to have something vaguelly resembling a fight.
I really like Eve, but I genuinely believe that unless CCP pays *verry* close attention to whats griping the 0.0 crew, this game is going to be over within the year. Theres perhaps 2-3 months left of war in deep space , and thats either going to be one alliance controls all of space, game over, lets play WOW, or a perpetually hostile grind war that'll eventually devolve into more wars. CCP needs to *carefully* analyse how it wants this to pan out, because if its *impossible* for one side of this war to win at all, this game is over.
There will be plenty of room for carebears once that happens, but no customers for them to profit off.
So it'll be like .... empire and the 20 or 30 macrominers who never really did notice whats going on. yay.
Theres a fresh bag of pampers next to the exit, help yourself on your way out if you can't handle things as they were.
Dont you have a reroll scheduled this week?
/signed, but with proper tools given. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Star Commander |
Kodiak31415
An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 01:07:00 -
[109]
Remove local chat and change it to local count, numbers only, no identities. Add a region or constelation wide chat that works as local does now.
my $.02 _______________________________ Idea stolen from DS:
Pleese exucse any seplling erroos in this psot |
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 01:21:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations? ...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
Eh... Why not Daelin. The damn Titans probably going to lead to most of the PVPers quitting in bored frustration that PVP has been made worthless when the only way to fight a titan is 1k+ spacecraft rammed slowly into system to try and have enough left over after the regular DD blasts to have something vaguelly resembling a fight.
I'm kinda missing where this has anything to do with local.
Yes PvP has a LOT of problems, this may come as a shock to you but I've fought my share of wars, I'm aware of the issues. Go make yourself a thread, or better yet contribute to the many already around and state your grievances where they may be considered and not simply ignored out of hand due to having nothing to do with the current topic.
|
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.21 01:21:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Thor Xian
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations? ...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
Eh... Why not Daelin. The damn Titans probably going to lead to most of the PVPers quitting in bored frustration that PVP has been made worthless when the only way to fight a titan is 1k+ spacecraft rammed slowly into system to try and have enough left over after the regular DD blasts to have something vaguelly resembling a fight.
I really like Eve, but I genuinely believe that unless CCP pays *verry* close attention to whats griping the 0.0 crew, this game is going to be over within the year. Theres perhaps 2-3 months left of war in deep space , and thats either going to be one alliance controls all of space, game over, lets play WOW, or a perpetually hostile grind war that'll eventually devolve into more wars. CCP needs to *carefully* analyse how it wants this to pan out, because if its *impossible* for one side of this war to win at all, this game is over.
There will be plenty of room for carebears once that happens, but no customers for them to profit off.
So it'll be like .... empire and the 20 or 30 macrominers who never really did notice whats going on. yay.
Theres a fresh bag of pampers next to the exit, help yourself on your way out if you can't handle things as they were.
Dont you have a reroll scheduled this week?
/signed, but with proper tools given.
Touche...
|
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 01:28:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Velsharoon
That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/
/signed
== Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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nickky01
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 01:37:00 -
[113]
/signed
can you imagine the fleet fights not know if there was a titan in system cloaked! would be intense
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Hesed
Hamartia.
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 01:37:00 -
[114]
Bring back teh nekkid feeling!
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Alekseyev Karrde
The Royal Guard Forces of Freedom
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 01:45:00 -
[115]
this would bring a more cat and mouse type feel to small conflicts whilst not affecting large conflicts very much. It would add an element of surprise to game play which would reinforce the need for reconosence, intelligence gathering, and planning and the ships/characters associated with those activities.
I also think it would discourage metagaming (log on traps partic) by largely taking away some the attractiveness of such practises, making the hassle(at least for some if not most) not worth the tactical gain.
I would provide that the chat window still be open for talk and the number of pilots present(as in the case with alliance chat), however no names or avatars be disclosed to public consumption unless those players speak in local. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected]) |
Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 03:22:00 -
[116]
At the very least, I think a nice compromise would be to make local as it was earlier just after hidden local went away but before it was completely fixed.
(For those who didn't know) Once local came back up, it did not auto refresh when someone came in local or left local. To accurately see who was in local, you would just have to click the (iii) 3 person icon refresh button in the upper right corner of the window and it would refresh showing everyone in local. Example: Gang jumps through a gate. On the other side, I only see 3 people in local which were the three gang mates that jumped in fractions of a second before me. The rest of the gang does not show till I click the refresh button.
This sort of compromise still means that people can get the jump on others while others can refresh their local every so often to see who's in local.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
AngryCanuk
TribalWar Inc EVE Animal Control
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 03:48:00 -
[117]
/NOT signed
How can people think this is a good idea? It would cause no intel on ANYTHING in eve. to get an idea of whos in system you'd have to probe them and go through everyones information. thats a bad idea
And what about fleet ops or territory? are you ppl so near sighted that you cant see the large problems with no local?
Honor does not have to be defended. - Robert J. Sawyer
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Liliane Woodhead
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 04:25:00 -
[118]
It's up to you. Minimize your local window and don't cry.
------- Nerf the Nerfbat -------
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.03.21 04:47:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Liliane Woodhead It's up to you. Minimize your local window and don't cry.
------- Nerf the Nerfbat -------
No you see it doesn't work then because EVERYONE would know they're in system and safespot or dock and oh wait! Removing local will largely benefit the solo-ganker in low sec and no one else? Well I'll be damned!
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Quen Azle
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.21 05:09:00 -
[120]
/signed
Nerf local.
If not, nerf local in 0.0
If even that is not doable, nerf local to show only #'s of people in local and only display identity when a guy talks in local, like delayed mode chat channels.
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NightmareX
Caldari Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.03.21 05:22:00 -
[121]
NO, and i mean NO.
It won't be signed by me until something better will replace the Local, and it need to be a **** load better than Local to.
Local is fine as it is. End of story.
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Raketenkaese
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 05:25:00 -
[122]
Please remove it ccp
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Kyozoku
Mutiny.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 05:50:00 -
[123]
god yes
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Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 05:53:00 -
[124]
Originally by: NightmareX NO, and i mean NO.
It won't be signed by me until something better will replace the Local, and it need to be a **** load better than Local to.
Local is fine as it is. End of story.
Wow.. I would have never thought Indinitus Odium would have such raving carebear in their ranks. My respect for the corp has decreased
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Dragonrazor
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 05:55:00 -
[125]
/Signnnnnnnnneeeedd!!!!!!1111111one ********************************************* "Stars Die... Empires fall... We are dust..." ********************************************* |
Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 06:03:00 -
[126]
Local needs a tweak, not a shotgun to the face.
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
Down with alts! One character per account per IP! |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 06:25:00 -
[127]
At first I thought "Oh sh**, how am I going to avoid camps now?" but then I realized not having local was not THAT bad since I assume every gate camped until proven otherwise anyway.
But, not having local will only benefit those who do not care for whom they kill, but just want kills no matter what.
I restrict my PvP to pirates and war targets, and with local removed I do not know if a given system is worth spending time in or not. I'd have to meticolously scan every system that has people in local or camp the gates. Both not very interesting propositions.
Or, look at this scenario:
A corp goes low sec mining, thoroughly scans the system and sees it is clear except for a decent guy ratting. They place scouts on the gates (a very boring game evening for those scout BTW), but noone comes in. A few minutes later a pirate vagabond appears and blows the mining barges up. The "ratter" was in fact an alt scout of that pirate who located the miners and logged off when the pirate logged on, keeping local count stable. Yes, the miners could have watched their scanners, but if the "ratter" was in the same ship type as the pirate even that would not work. (replace "pirate" with "war target" if it suits you better).
So, since it is not possible to 100% secure a system you need a tool to counter weird tactics and keep the game interesting for everyone. Right now, local is that tool.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Christina Vallentine
Caldari Tau Ceti Global Production Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 06:31:00 -
[128]
Remove local please. /Signed
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NightmareX
Caldari Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 06:55:00 -
[129]
Edited by: NightmareX on 21/03/2007 06:54:59
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: NightmareX NO, and i mean NO.
It won't be signed by me until something better will replace the Local, and it need to be a **** load better than Local to.
Local is fine as it is. End of story.
Wow.. I would have never thought Indinitus Odium would have such raving carebear in their ranks. My respect for the corp has decreased
Sorry to disapoint you, but if you look back 1 year and 1 month, then you are right, but now i'm a pirate, and i don't think i'm a carebear with -9.4 in sec status
EDIT: Oh wow, i just got called carebear from a +5.1 character, nice try, but that was funny
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 06:58:00 -
[130]
Originally by: NightmareX and i don't think i'm a carebear with -9.4 in sec status
Sec status means nothing.
Anyway, 0.0 was quite exciting without local, it would be sweet if they made it permanent -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
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NightmareX
Caldari Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 07:01:00 -
[131]
Edited by: NightmareX on 21/03/2007 06:58:41
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: NightmareX and i don't think i'm a carebear with -9.4 in sec status
Sec status means nothing.
The sec status means something, since if i had npc'ed all day, then i wouldn't actually had -9.4 in sec status. And by npcing you can get you sec status up in no time
And it's not going to take long time before i'm at -10 again
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 07:05:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: NightmareX and i don't think i'm a carebear with -9.4 in sec status
Sec status means nothing.
Anyway, 0.0 was quite exciting without local, it would be sweet if they made it permanent
Definately. At the same time, I'll look at it from the side of a miner/ratter. Perhaps local removal of only 0.0? or just 0.2 and below? At any rate, perhaps a sort of Active/Passive mode directional scanner to balance it a bit in favor of the miner/ratters. Sort of like radar.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Tsunari
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 07:15:00 -
[133]
Some of the best things happen by accident such as plastic, champagne and no local. Most definitely /signed
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Commander Nikolas
Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd. The Cartel.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 07:48:00 -
[134]
Signed... remove it once and for all.
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Death Merchant
InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.03.21 08:34:00 -
[135]
Think it would be exciting at first but then it would just be annoying. I don't think it would make it fair to the other/non pvp play styles. Tips the scales too much in one direction so that makes it bad imo.
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Major Stormer
Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.21 08:37:00 -
[136]
Signed
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Asuo
Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:00:00 -
[137]
As it stands I'm against removing local. In the long run we know its going to be removed theres just too many people wining about it. But first we need a better scanning system, like one where if I remove corp/alliance members from overview and use the scanner on overview settings then they won't show up. This would really help for tods sake, I mean in RP termsyou can just say that each ship has a transponder code that you enables you to ignore them in scanning. ----------------------------------------------- EECC recuitment thread.
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Pesadel0
Vagabundos THE H0RDE
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:06:00 -
[138]
Signed.
I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP. |
bigfatbird
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 09:40:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Zae'dra Xanthe Make it an "active" scanner and *skill based*. That way you can increase your chances of finding someone and vise verse, avoiding someone.
And the new players will not just be weak but also half blind.
I am sure they will be glad for that "expirience".
/absolutely NOT signed
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:41:00 -
[140]
Long as all the map tools that show pilot activity goes with it I'm fine with no local.
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Ione Hunt
Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:42:00 -
[141]
Hell no!
I don't wanna see 100 ppl go "Frank, are you here?" in local. Find a better solution! _______________
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Xoria Krint
The Movement
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:42:00 -
[142]
I beg you to do it! ---
My Movies
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El Covah
The Galactic Empire Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 09:48:00 -
[143]
Originally by: bigfatbird
And the new players will not just be weak but also half blind.
I am sure they will be glad for that "expirience".
/absolutely NOT signed
EVE is a hardcore game, making it more hardcore for new players is not good for the whole playerbase. So completely removing it? No. But what about this idea...
You only see local if:
a) In Empire b) If you or NPCs have sov in the system
*New sig coming soon* |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE The Foundation.
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 10:32:00 -
[144]
Remove local CCP, and I don't care for any other unbalance in game anymore!!!
Finnaly surprise and tactics can have a palce in game not only blobage.
No loval DIMINISH the need of blob. Because you don't know how many enemies are in.. so you don't get into the classical "hey they have 22 guys we have 19.. lets wait until we have more 10.. then the otehr guys.. hey now they have 29... we need more 20 guys... fast..."
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Karim alRashid
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Posted - 2007.03.21 10:43:00 -
[145]
Local, as it is now, must go, since it's a game artefact, not EVE Universe feature. There are a few options, to mediate its absence:
a) Optional "tune-in" feature, i.e. it should be voluntarily joinable channel b) sending reconnassance scan probes/drones across gates and having them back c) building POS, e.g. sentry towers, which do system scanning d) having gates log ships passing through them, in and out, maybe for a limited time, e..g in the last hour.
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Donni
Caldari mUfFiN fAcToRy Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 10:51:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Donni on 21/03/2007 10:48:19 IMO they should do it but only to low sec systems. 0.5+ Should have a active local, As you would expect that kind of technology to scan ships that come in and make it available.
From 0.1 - 0.4's It shouldn't be there, they are empire controlled states that they don't really care about to much so there should be a option for it, this would make low sec fun again.
0.0 - IMO this would be controlled by the alliances. Big ones with POS's with lots of money should be able to purchurse something if they wish that makes it available for that system. We would then get 0.0 systems that felt safer like empire does and then get the systems that feel dangerous.
Edit : sorry if some one posted this I got to the end of the second and posted
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ThinUCanCatchMe
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Posted - 2007.03.21 10:59:00 -
[147]
/NOT signed
PS, Posting with an alt in this thread since 90% of the people posting here are alts
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w0rmy
Intensive CareBearz
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 11:01:00 -
[148]
Signed... but
If done there has to be some counter to cloaked ships.
a fleet of ships that cant be seen on scanner/local or visually is just to powerfull imho.
Your signature is inappropriate. Please read the forum rules before reposting- Tirg |
Donni
Caldari mUfFiN fAcToRy Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:04:00 -
[149]
Originally by: w0rmy Signed... but
If done there has to be some counter to cloaked ships.
a fleet of ships that cant be seen on scanner/local or visually is just to powerfull imho.
Definately.
|
whahein
Minmatar wh inc
|
Posted - 2007.03.21 11:11:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Sever Aldaria /Signed
Its more dangerous for ratters ect. but its also more dangerous for gangs as you can run into a fleet twice your size w/out much warning. Actually gives a meaning to having good recon intel and makes pvp more exciting and real.
Thats sort of nonsense since we still have intel tools, namely the map and the build in scanner, both pirates and carebears need tools to find eachother, so noone is going to like having to live without any intel tools.
a competent pirate or miner will have warnings.
And then theres the social part, the only way for rivals to bond is via local, and well would you write in it if it would reveal your presence, of cause not
And to the blob thing, today you can mine and rat without the protection of scouts and camps, because you get some warning when hostile enters, if it becomes to difficault to keep a profit comming from your ratting/mining it will die out or blobs will form to protect systems from raiders. Again making it harder for the smaller corp to survive.
Replacing local with constalation would actually give better warning to carebears.
The problem seams to be that local does what every replacement tool would do, and add a social element to the game.
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bigfatbird
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:32:00 -
[151]
Edited by: bigfatbird on 21/03/2007 11:29:40
Originally by: El Covah
Originally by: bigfatbird
And the new players will not just be weak but also half blind.
I am sure they will be glad for that "expirience".
/absolutely NOT signed
EVE is a hardcore game, making it more hardcore for new players is not good for the whole playerbase. So completely removing it? No. But what about this idea...
You only see local if:
a) In Empire b) If you or NPCs have sov in the system
That sounds already alot better to me.
Tbh I wont stop playing Eve anyway, I am just to addicted to this game.
But I still tend more for being in favour of letting local untouched atm.
I really dont see how local breaks the game for anyone.
Covops and recons give u a nice advantage even with working local.
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Skeenee Al'Ramed
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:37:00 -
[152]
Yeah plz bring it back!!!
/signed /signed /and signed again!!!!!
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Nagarutu Mishima
The Movement
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:40:00 -
[153]
This would just make the game slower and take more time, not really a good idea. Cause if wee need to spend hours of just finding targets guessing if its ppl in local or not would just be silly.
The pvp in EVE is not quick and fast, and it shoulnt, but its no reason to slow it down further.
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Roshan longshot
Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:41:00 -
[154]
I will agree with no local as long as a new skill and ability is added.
I want ship scanners that dont have to be activated, and can tell when sombody jumps into system, or at least comes withen 5000k of my peaceful minning op.
I could care less if there was a name or not. I just want to see a ship is near.
The higher trained skill the better the scanner reads.
As for local, you all aint been around too long have you? Guess what people have been wanting local removed for four + years and it aint happen yet.
This is the 1,597 pettition to call for the removal of local...guess they dont want to do it.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Kastar
Chronodynamics
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:47:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka Yes plz, make u appear in local in low sec and 0.0 only if u make noise.
Haha, I play without sound -----------------------------------------------
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Nargo Nextit
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:52:00 -
[156]
signed on behalf 2 accounts
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bigfatbird
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:52:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Roshan longshot I will agree with no local as long as a new skill and ability is added.
I want ship scanners that dont have to be activated, and can tell when sombody jumps into system, or at least comes withen 5000k of my peaceful minning op.
I could care less if there was a name or not. I just want to see a ship is near.
The higher trained skill the better the scanner reads.
As for local, you all aint been around too long have you? Guess what people have been wanting local removed for four + years and it aint happen yet.
This is the 1,597 pettition to call for the removal of local...guess they dont want to do it.
What about the newer player who are already weak compared to trained players?
With a skillbased solution they would now also be half blind and demoted to be nothing else but target practice.
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The Champion
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Posted - 2007.03.21 12:09:00 -
[158]
simply replace local channel with constellation channel u see everyone in constellation as u see now in local channel, even extend it to delayed mode like 5 minutes or so.
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Kharriga
Caldari Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 12:19:00 -
[159]
this would make PVP so much more interesting
SIGN! - for whats it worth.. -
"I'm scissors. Paper is fine. Nerf rock!"
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Sanada Juyushi
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Posted - 2007.03.21 12:38:00 -
[160]
Absolutly not signed also
Removing Local completely favours the attacker of pve'ers.
For players that don't have
Newer players and corps are forced to pve in 0.0/low-sec endlessly, because lets face it until you have a starter fund it is very hard to achieve anything. Even that first BS can take a long while for a new player to earn the isk to make.
With no local small corps and players without the bhack up of huge intell channels and the like have absolutly no way of predictign when hostiles will enter bar spamming the scanner non stop for hours and hours and hours.
I know the responses to this will be things like, they should join alliances, get on intell channels, have scouts on the gate.
Join alliances - this completely destroys the current game play where small corps set up in 0.0/low-sec grows and then become alliances through talking and suppporting eachother in local.
Intell channels without local there wont be the co-ordination for that.
Use scouts etc. Hell large alliances have problems with this, people simply dont want to spend an entire evening sitting on a gate non stop, It also completely nerfs the earning ratio as you are left with another mouth to feed.
The way I look upon this is all it will do is encourage more usage of macro's for ratting that spam scanner and warps out automatically to a ss when a new ship appears.
If nothing else there has to be an identifier that lets you know when someone has jumped into the system , even with that i see local removal personally as a great way to encourage and make fights easier for people already in 0.0 like myself ( I myself have at times thought it would be great to slip by my enemies scouts when in a large gank gang approaching enemy position), and yet a even better way to ensure that status quo remains and no new corp/player ever dares make those first faltering steps into low sec 0.0 on their own. It would also greatly encourage the use of macro alts that will just sit and scan a gate non stop.
Regards Sanada
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Hooch Flux
Caldari CMOT Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.21 14:39:00 -
[161]
How about this, High-sec remains as is. Low-sec is still their, but you have an opt out when you jump in (pop-up asking if you want to join local for that system). 0.0, no local unless bought by whatever allaince/faction controls system. Add Passive/active function to scanner! Un-nerf WCS (fair is fair) Allow scanner to scan for cloaked ships (depending on effectiveness of scanner and skill vs effectiveness of cloak and skill, also take into account movement. Yadda-yadda-yadda.
Seems fair.
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
Drasked
North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.03.21 14:58:00 -
[162]
If Velsharoon said so, /signed
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:08:00 -
[163]
Originally by: bigfatbird Edited by: bigfatbird on 21/03/2007 12:37:21
Originally by: Roshan longshot I will agree with no local as long as a new skill and ability is added.
I want ship scanners that dont have to be activated, and can tell when sombody jumps into system, or at least comes withen 5000k of my peaceful minning op.
I could care less if there was a name or not. I just want to see a ship is near.
The higher trained skill the better the scanner reads.
As for local, you all aint been around too long have you? Guess what people have been wanting local removed for four + years and it aint happen yet.
This is the 1,597 pettition to call for the removal of local...guess they dont want to do it.
What about the newer players who are already weak compared to trained players?
With a skillbased solution they would now also be half blind and demoted to be nothing else but target practice.
When I was a newer player local was just weird to me. Why would you have such a thing? I responded to players I saw on screen, not on some list of nameless faces in a chat screen. When I was running missions local in Empire I could care less about local. The chat was ok, but the member list I had really no use for.
Only later in the game more experienced players pointed out local's use as an intelligence gathering tool. Seemed clear meta-gaming to me, but hey, I was weirded out by insta-bookmarks too.
In any case, most new players would not miss the member list if it was removed is my guess.
More experienced players
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
j0sephine
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:25:00 -
[164]
No, for all the reasons already discussed to death in earlier incarnations of this thread. --;
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hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:35:00 -
[165]
No thanks we need people in local to show up. No local makes it a griefers paridise. Take local away in 0.0 is another way to drive people back to empire.
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Seph Res
PPN United Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:38:00 -
[166]
it was great fun to enter the mystery this way, gaves me the feeling of real space sectors flyin around only with the help of the scanner and pulsating heart on the gate to to wait how many foes will come through at 1 time ^^
signed to remove local
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MaDeX
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Posted - 2007.03.21 16:45:00 -
[167]
SSIIIIGGNNNNEEEDD
IBTL?
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.21 16:52:00 -
[168]
No. Only morons with a lack of vision or any thought about the consequenses of such a thing would ask for it. Billion reasons throughout thread. No.
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Sgt Napalm
Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2007.03.21 16:54:00 -
[169]
no --- [Video] Skool of Harpy - Da Blarpy |
Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.03.21 16:55:00 -
[170]
Originally by: X3vious Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 20:58:07 Bring back local.
As the pirates argue - risk vs reward:
There is little risk when local is removed.
I agree.
Local should stay.
Removing local will do more harm to the game than anyone realizes that calls for it.
No local means:
1. More time looking for a fight if you want one. 2. Means even fewer people will leave high Empire...more lag. 3. Means less social interaction among players.
Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs |
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iqplayer
Caldari Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.03.21 17:04:00 -
[171]
Edited by: iqplayer on 21/03/2007 17:02:38
Originally by: Velsharoon
That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/
I would love to hear your reasoning on this.... because quite frankly, I think you're wrong.
Removing local would certainly cause a division of playstyles - on the one hand you would certainly have the solo ganker, and probably the solo miner/npc'er in out of the way systems; but you would greatly encourage the formation of uber blobs.
Why?
Well, for one, small groups would struggle to get the intel that no local would require. 5-6 guys mining would suffer a big hit if 1-2 of those guys had to be scouts on a gate. Small roving gangs might not suffer this penalty to quite the same extent, but you'd still likely want more scouts without local than you would with local (or risk being hit by a bigger gang).
Basically, big (attacking) blobs would get all the advantages of no local, with the added benefit of having the manpower to field necessary scouts. Defending (or mining/npc'ing) groups would be pushed to ever larger blobs to try to sa***uard against any possible threat. Any uncertainty about whether a force was large enough, would be compensated for the same way it is today - by increasing the size of the blob until it clearly outnumbered it's opposition.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.03.21 18:05:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 21/03/2007 18:02:13 Local stays.
People have said why it should stay.
Personally I'm all for removing local, its too game-immersion-breaking, and replacing local has potential to add more gameplay into EVE, like say: -tracing someone's warp signature to hunt them down
-a "localized" local wherein anyone within 5AU will show up in your local (giving the PvE/Miner due warning ahead of time, even if he is coming in warp real fast, can be skillbased too!), if else, at least a nice "Caution: Ship warping in" notification would be nice at least, giving time to whoever is going to run, to at least get their legs going.
-cov-ops possibly getting a system-wide module that sits passively but keeps scanning, and thus produces the "old" style local for gang/fleet, at the expense of no cloak module capability
-A revamped directional scanner so that it's more user friendly and doesnt look like it doesnt do anything to the eyes of a newbie, which actually shows results on screen, and not in that little window leaving the scanner guessing where he pointed his camera again (hint hint for new graphics, add like one of those cool scanning effects that seem to pass across the screen as well, so that directional scanning isnt completely boring)
-system view that isnt lagging practically everyone who doesnt have a beefy enough videocard so that the results from directional scanning can be seen there as well
-Alliance control over their sovereigned 0.0 and a POS-bound local module, emulating the "old" style local for them, and them alone (thus, leaving the hunter with the knowledge that they know you're in there, and you dont know if there're around or not. Can even be linked into alliance or a seperate alliance chat reporting if someone with negative standing or a war target has come into their system. Would make alliance territorial defence actually look and feel like defending the territory)
So without any tools to at least provide the less hardcore players a fighting chance against those who would benefit greatly from a no-local fix, I vote no.
Local stays until CCP comes up with alternatives. *
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.21 18:28:00 -
[173]
Most often people get caught up in the traditional "Oh, they have 10 in local so lets safespot till we have 10 more than them. Ok, lets attack. Oh they safespotted. Now they have 10 more, lets safespot ect." I think you'd get more fights by both sides in that you're unable to determine your opponents numbers in system just by looking at local. Also allows for a more tactical approach at combat. One example: have several other ships hidden elsewhere in system ready to warp in to reinforce once the opposing force has engaged thinking that they've engaged their enemy's entire force.
I believe I saw one in one of these no local threads, a person gave an example in which he and 5 other friends were in a system with 6 other hostiles in system (they could tell from local). However, 3 of his friends were afk so as far as he knew, the odds were 6:3. However, the other hostiles didn't engage either seeing the 6 (in local) they were up against and possibly even having an afk person or two of their own. The result was a mexican standoff where there was no fight.
I think removing local intel gathering would be greatly beneficial to pvp combat (1 gang vs. another, not 1 pirate vs. a ratter). On the other hand, I recognize that it would have the negative side affect of giving the miner/ratter a very hard time. Somehow, local intel gathering needs to be removed to improve pvp fights (2 sides that are looking for a fight), w/out dramatically hurting the miner/ratters. Some people suggested having non-static belts so that a pirate on the hunt would have to probe out the miner. This option has its merits in that a miner doesn't know if a pirate comes in local but that if he just does a scan once every 30-60 seconds then he should be able to see a scan probe and get to safety. (really is that so hard to do while the lasers carve at rock although it may mean that you have to spend more time playing the game than watching your favorite TV show or reading the forums while filling a can or switching target to mining a new rock?)
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
bigfatbird
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 18:36:00 -
[174]
Hey if you want to fly "hardcore style" without local just minimize the dam window and be done with it.
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CaperPuts
Minmatar Life. Universe. Everything. Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.03.21 18:36:00 -
[175]
/anti-sign
You could just get a 20 man gang and warp to every single belt. Then warp to whichever guy tackles the ratters/miners there. It's a complete fog of war, and seems rather silly.
Probing will be a pain in the ass too, no idea if you should even bother looking for someone if you don't know that they exist. lolz |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.21 18:39:00 -
[176]
Keep local, solar systems are too small not to have it. Make systems 10 times as big or cut warp speed by 90%, then maybe something else to replace a HUGE social aspect of the game. And get rid of jump gates, it's space, not dungeon rooms.
</soap box> -AS |
Renox
Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.21 18:44:00 -
[177]
In some ways it would be nice to have local removed but imagine how utterly powerful recons would be. Able to enter a system and cloak immediately and the target being none the wiser no matter how much s/he use their scanner. Now that might be what a recon should be like but wow a lot of people will die/cry because of that.
TheJay > grrr slow stupid garlic eating surrender monkeys |
MMoroz
Stercus Accidit.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 19:26:00 -
[178]
Edited by: MMoroz on 21/03/2007 19:30:09 First SIGNED.
Second: -stop bringing stupid bug with recons noone argue here that you should be able to scan them, CCP should do that long time ago
-social thing - don`t make me laugh there is a lots of mmo beside eve and none have such a thing as local and somehow noone has problem with meeting/talking with other people
-it will make it harder for solo players - OF COURSE IT WILL, but why should it be other way if you mine alone, or travel alone through low-sec/0.0 it is your choice but you should know that it is dangerous. This the way low-sec/0.0 was designed, right now it is broken( cause of local, warp to 0.0, features to local - it displays standings etc ) and you see more and more people alone - this game is supposed to make people work together it is not WOW where you can do most of things alone
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Mr Neutron
Blazing Angels
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Posted - 2007.03.21 19:33:00 -
[179]
For few hours eve was close to perfection: nano battleships nerfed & local gone
/SIGNED
PS.... T+TALHELLDE-TH !!! ---- Take my love, take my land Take me where I cannot stand I don't care, I'm still free You can't take the sky from me |
Antraxx
Caldari Deviance Inc
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Posted - 2007.03.21 19:55:00 -
[180]
Not that its gonna make any difference...but... /SIGNED! For a while there...Thousands of bear's screamed in terror ----------
---------- Deviance Inc. is recruiting!-Eve mail me :) |
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.21 20:13:00 -
[181]
Removal of local definately increases the complexity and fun of pvp combat (experienced it with the little hour of time we had). However, we don't want to make it one sided against miners/ratters. Miners and ratters dwell in asteroid belts in the inner systems and thats where I suggest a small change which would give them a fair chance while removing local in 0.0.
Make asteroid belts semi-static like exploration belts only easy to find. With a no local scenario, most people here say recons would be overpowered. Go in, directional scanner, find miner/ratter, warp in, blow up, sink back in to the shadows. To balance this out, there needs to be a mechanism where someone must reveal themselves momentarily before they can gank a ratter/miner. To do this, take asteroid belts off of the overview / rightclick menu requiring people to scan them out with a probe launcher. For a ratter/miner, this means launching a probe which returns a result for a belt in range. Ratter/miner goes in and gets to work. For someone to want to gank him, they'd need to drop a probe to scan them out and then warp to them (this means decloaking for a recon ship). As long as a ratter/miner in 0.0 isn't semi-playing then he should be able to notice a probe on his directional scanner and get to safety. Belts move after downtime so a pirate can't scan them all out one time and bm them all.
Something along those lines I think would give people a fair chance while not giving everything away just by looking at a chat channel. As far as the local channel goes, just don't have a list of people. If someone talks, they don't have to show up on a list. Everyone in local at the time would notice that person is in the same system but not be able to tell if he's still in system or if he said that before jumping out/logging.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.03.21 20:29:00 -
[182]
the removal of fixed belts is required before removal of local
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.03.21 21:48:00 -
[183]
no
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Kazire
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Posted - 2007.03.21 22:57:00 -
[184]
signed and please make low sec more valuable.... better ores, better rats etc. Lets make low sec have some life again.
As for local, give it to us in empire space, but in low sec and 0.0, get rid of it. It takes away from the game. However i can see a skill or two related to sensors that allow you to see more people. Range based etc within local.
Get rid of instant sight of everyone by using local in low sec and 0.0. Its rather rediculas, as are the arguements to keep it.
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Dahin
Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 23:34:00 -
[185]
If only I had a penny for every time I b****ed in the forums about removing local...
Oh wait, that'd make me british. I take it back I tell you :P
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MrDisposable
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.03.21 23:50:00 -
[186]
Ok.. take away local, but in addition remove static belts, and a POS structure that alerts you to # of people in system and their standings to you. Also add 300 second probes that do the same. Hell make the probe results look like local without the whole chatting, just the character listings.
That means hometurf and logistics give you an advantage, if not then its fair game. IT also makes ambushes possible against careless and wreckless fleets (no covert ops scout). ______________ BoB Alts
"This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!"
"Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve." |
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